For the Love of Facts
For the Love of Facts is a podcast where two therapists, Dr. Zamzam Dini and Dr. Kadija Mussa, unpack the truths behind love, relationships, and healing. In a world full of noise and myths, we bring culturally grounded, evidence-based conversations that center faith, connection, and care. No fluff—just facts.
For the Love of Facts
When Little Things Break Big Hearts: The Truth About Trust
What does it truly mean to trust someone with your heart? Trust isn't just about fidelity—it's built through countless small moments where your partner shows up for you emotionally.
Dr. Khadija joins us to explore how trust forms the foundation of healthy relationships, defining it as "the belief that your partner has your best interest at heart and will not intentionally harm you." We dive deep into how our childhood attachments shape our ability to trust romantic partners, and why most relationships start with high trust that must then be maintained through consistent actions.
The conversation reveals a critical distinction many couples miss: the difference between micro-betrayals and major betrayals. While infidelity might be the most recognized breach of trust, it's often the small daily disappointments—dismissing feelings, failing to defend your partner publicly, or breaking minor promises—that gradually erode relationships from within. "It chips away every day," Dr. Khadija explains, leaving couples wondering how their once-solid foundation crumbled.
Perhaps most enlightening is the exploration of privacy versus secrecy. Privacy means maintaining healthy boundaries with journals, personal time, and individual friendships. Secrecy, however, involves deliberately withholding information to avoid consequences. As one relationship expert beautifully phrases it, "secrecy creates walls between partners, while transparency builds windows."
Can trust be rebuilt after betrayal? Both experts agree it's possible, though the journey requires patience and commitment. Like a broken mirror, the relationship can be repaired, but the cracks remain visible. Along the way, we bust common myths about trust—from the manipulation of "if you loved me, you'd trust me" to the false belief that trust issues are solely "your insecurity."
Listen now and reflect: What small moments have made you feel seen or unseen in your relationship? The answers might transform how you connect with your partner forever.
Follow us on instagram @fortheloveoffacts!
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode. Today, I'm here with Dr Khadija and we're talking about one of the other key ingredients to a relationship, which is trust. What does healthy trust look like?
Speaker 2:I think trust is the belief that your partner has your best interest at heart and will not intentionally harm you. And I have seen researchers asking um can? Is your partner um only in this relationship and looking for their interest, right Asking about are they in it for their own interest? Or asking is she in it for her own interest? Yeah, and trust is really something that's built over time small, consistent moments over years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I feel like a relationship itself like is a risk, right, like you're, you're kind of letting this person into your life, into your space and you're trusting them not to hurt you, right, you're trusting them to care for you the way that you care for them and you're trusting them, you're entrusting them with your heart, basically, um, and that that is a huge risk that people take when they enter relationships, and so I really also think it's it's rooted on, rooted in, like how you've developed or how you learn to trust people over time throughout your childhood.
Speaker 1:Right, we talk a lot about, you know, attachment, and children develop attachments with their caregivers. As they grow older, they learn to trust this person, that, whether that's their parents, grandparents, sister, where you know it's like I know my mom's going to be here for me when I'm sad, and so I've learned over time through interactions, that this person is a trustworthy person. And, unfortunately, right, when you don't have, you know, caregivers that are attentive, people can develop insecure attachments and you know, research shows that your attachment that you develop in childhood impacts your romantic relationships as well develop in childhood impacts your romantic relationships as well.
Speaker 2:It does. But I also think, like you know, researchers have looked at um trust over a period in a relationship and I have looked at that too is um early in the relationship, trust is very high, right. So I think people come into some in a relationship with optimism and with, like a love, a baseline level of trust. Yeah, good, well, at least like right, at least this person has not earned distrust yet. So right, like there is that baseline um. But then thinking about like what does does healthy trust look like?
Speaker 1:I think that's that's really important in modern relationships authentic and just natural with your partner because you trust them. You trust that they're not going to judge you, you trust that they're not going to take advantage of you know your story or your experience, and you trust that they are a safe person.
Speaker 2:And also I think there is a level of openness right In communication and being transparent in what they're doing and their dealings. And also I just think of follow through, simple follow through right, can I ask my partner for something and they will actually do it, or are they going to not follow through for me? So those are little things that build trust over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're describing that emotional responsiveness like yes, when I ask for something, is my partner going to follow through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, care about what I'm asking for yeah, yeah, because I think all the time where I guess, like the assumption, the sentiment I get from people is like, oh, is my partner trustworthy? Well, they haven't cheated on me, they didn't do big things. So I think you said something before. Is it like micro betrayals or like little, little everyday betrayals that add up and wear the relationship down?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's almost like it erodes it. You know what I mean. Like it chips away at it every day. And so, like, there's a difference between like, like you know, like the I would say the big, the capital b betrayal, right of like, like, whether it's, like you know, financial, like betrayal, or emotional dishonesty, like those are the big things that I think people can like, point to and say, yeah, that is a betrayal of my trust. But there's also, like the micro betrayals that you said, like the everyday kind of interactions that really send the message to this person that you don't care anymore. Right, so this could look like you know, dismissing your partner's feelings, right, oh, like I don't know why you're getting so upset. All I said was this Right, it can look like you're not defending them in public or this is a big one with your family.
Speaker 2:Yes, which is so hard? Oh my goodness which is so hard to do, but it needs to be done. Right like looking out for your partner, um yeah, and also the breaking small promises. Right like and I think we just need to learn to make amends right that's when, when those things happen. I think we'll talk a little bit more about that soon. Um yeah, and ownership right, yeah, taking ownership and, um, showing up in a relationship to actually work on it. I think that's one of the things we said was openness, right being open, being transparent when you make a mistake, those things happen.
Speaker 2:If you haven't listened to our last episode, you should. We talked about conflict resolution, so, yeah, those things build trust in a relationship. But I want to talk about privacy versus secrecy privacy versus secrecy oh, that's a big one.
Speaker 1:I don't think a lot of people understand the difference and the connotations for each one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so privacy I think, can look like having healthy boundaries, and it's okay to have boundaries. I especially for people from where I'm from, boundaries are not a thing. But people should have boundaries so like in, I guess, western context, having journals, private time, personal friendships those are normal things. You should have privacy. But secrecy is deliberately withholding information to avoid consequences or accountability. There it is to be able to backtrack later.
Speaker 1:You sure that's what I said or you're not telling your partner you spent five hundred dollars on some new shoes, because you're not supposed to be spending five hundred dollars on some new shoes, right?
Speaker 2:it's uncomfortable. You could just call them and say I really want this, yeah, and then, if you have that type of relationship, your partner should be able to respond to your need, whatever that case may be. But, yeah, to be able to create openness in the relationship, to be able to say those things, those things build trust over time over time.
Speaker 1:Dr Shirley Glass, who is the author of Not Just Friends, really talks about this and the difference between privacy and secrecy. You know she talks about how, like secrecy creates walls right, it like creates distance between the couple. You know there's there's like you're withholding information and it can feel like very icky. You know, just like holding that secret compared to transparency, right, Like it builds windows. You know you still get to be in your own room but there's, there's an access, right, there's there's that ability to communicate to, to kind of connect.
Speaker 1:You know, in therapy couples therapy a lot I love to emphasize this understanding of like differentiation, right, being able to be together but also be your own individual at the same time. And that's kind of what we look for in a healthy relationship. Like you should be able to have your own hobbies and your own, you know likes and dislikes, and you should be able to enjoy each own hobbies and your own, you know likes and dislikes, and you should be able to enjoy each other's company. Yes, kind of. You know, connecting it back to the difference between privacy and secrecy like you know, privacy is important in a relationship, right, like it can't be a free-for-all where every this person has 100 access to you at all times. That can be overwhelming, it can be intrusive, right, and so kind of recognizing like what is the difference between having privacy in my relationship and what is the difference between like me starting to keep secrets and me starting to hide things because I don't want that person to access this part of me?
Speaker 2:I mean I think about people demanding full access and thinking that's like a fix to their distrust. Right, I mean you can have people, I guess in my relationship. I have access to phone codes but I have rarely ever used it. I'm like I'm not going to use it. But if I want to, I know how Right. Right, respecting that privacy of the person. Like they should have their own space. Like I'm not going to read my partner's journal. But if you feel like you see, you find yourself in that state of always being hyper vigilant in a relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would say there are trust issues in this relationship and you need some sort of professional help yeah, it's an indication that you know communication is not where it should be, and so if you're, you know, often wondering what your partner is thinking, or wondering, um, like kind of having conversations in your head about what's going on, you should be having those conversations with your partner, and so how can you open that communication to be able to share your thoughts in a way that is healthy and that you you get the answers you want in a healthy way? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I I just think people forget that trust isn't just those big things that we talked about but, it's really like, okay, I can talk to you, I can come even say what I'm feeling right now, and you're not going to put me down. I think you're going to hear me.
Speaker 2:You're going to say oh that you know that you really had a hard day yeah, like, and you're not trying to solve all of my problems, but you just create a space for me and, over time, we enjoy sharing our issues, we enjoy connecting, we enjoy um being open, um about our emotions and especially when it comes to um, you know how the different genders deal with emotional vulnerability. Right, you have to learn to not do the put downs in your relationship um again.
Speaker 1:That erodes. You can't try to play it cool while you're trying to be vulnerable no, no, you, you have to have those.
Speaker 2:Uh, and it's not fun to be partnered and not be able to have vulnerable conversations. That's what it means to build intimacy over time, to build trust over time in a relationship. So, thinking about building once it has been broken, can trust be rebuilt?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, I really I love the analogy like. Trust is like a like, um, when trust is broken, it's like a mirror that's been broken right. Where it's like it's broken, you can put the pieces back together, but the cracks are still there and I feel like you know, in order, like, so, you're not going to. Things will never be the way they were before. The trust was broken, however right, it can be rebuilt, right, um, and so both people have to kind of put in the work and be able to like again, commit to working on their relationship, right, you see a pattern here, um, but yeah, it definitely takes um kind of both players in the relationship to work towards that. So not just the person who like offended right, not the offender or the theer, but also the person who was hurt like. They also have to be willing to take that risk again and work on the trust all over again.
Speaker 2:You know, though what you said is on point, Doing couples therapy, what I have noticed is that couples will try to rush each other through the process of forgiveness, so, instead, of, what they end up doing is, instead of putting it to rest, right, that's the analogy I learned from my one of my professors. Then they buried alive, and it keeps knocking and coming back. Right, you did not put the major betrayal, you didn't put it to rest, you just buried it alive.
Speaker 2:now you keep listening to it knocking at all random times, right, so meaning it's like a ghost haunting the relationship haunting the relationship because you rush the person, because of your own sense of shame, your own sense of guilt, you just want to move on, you want to move on. And then people would even say things like can we move on? No we cannot friend. We're back here again, yeah.
Speaker 1:How do I get over it? Right, like the verbi of like getting over something, yeah, no, no, uh. So the betrayer?
Speaker 2:should show consistent remorse and be transparent and be accountable and not just expect their partner to trust them like trust me, not what? What is, what does that even mean? Clearly, I can't trust you you've proven your distrust. You have proven it to me, so your trust me card has been revoked it has been revoked. Yes, yeah, no, you can no longer say trust me, um, so yeah, and also, on the other hand, like you said, the betrayed. They need to have empathy, um, and then also both parties need to give it time and be consistent over time and you know things then will go back.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you're willing to work on the relationship, then you really can't use this distrust as like a tool to kind of beat your partner down every time like they do something wrong. Like this is exactly why you know we are where we at, like this, all because of you and your behaviors like that. That really doesn't help either, um, and so if you're, if you're making the decision to stay with your partner after a betrayal, then you have to be willing to put in that work and to be open to changing right and and open to looking at um, your role in the relationship and what you know, understanding what needs to change for both of you to move forward in a healthy way yeah, it's about creating a new experience in the relationship, right to a new way of relating to one another.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily trying to erase the past. The past is there but, then can we rebuild a new, can we have a better new relationship. Um, learn from that mistake so we don't do that again, and I think that requires a level of intentionality. Maybe people need professional at that point. Yeah, and that's normally when they come in anyways, after a big betrayal.
Speaker 1:All right, let's let's bust some myths about coming about. Trust. Myth number one if you love, love me, you should just trust me no, that that you know.
Speaker 2:Trust is earned and maintained over time through consistent behavior. Yeah, trust is built through small moments of connection. It's not really um. Because I love you, therefore I trust you.
Speaker 1:No it's almost like manipulation, right, like it's like if you loved me then you wouldn't be doubting me in the first place, when this person has proven that they cannot be trusted. Yeah, I feel like those things are not like they're. They're mutual exclusive. I can love somebody and they can kind of show me through their actions that they are not to be trusted, like I don't think we are. You know the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're trying to have here not so very personal conversations. But in my own prodigious philosophy, I have no business loving someone I don't trust Period. I have no business loving someone I don't trust, period. No, there is no love in the so. No. But to be transparent with our listeners, love can be the soil. There is something you love about that person. It can be you know, multiple things that come together. You need to know that you have to nurture trust in the relationship because, you can come in with high hopes.
Speaker 2:You know newlyweds um, people do study those. Um, yeah, it's a great time for newlyweds, but then, at the same time, it's a really bad time in a relationship because, as you're learning, you can easily erode trust in the relationship yeah, because everyone has such high expectations, or like their expectations are implicit, like they're, they're not really talking about it, their assumptions, and then their behavior doesn't pan out to align with that.
Speaker 1:and so, now that you know the micro betrayals are happening, and then like, and you're realizing, hey, this is not, you know, the ideal person I had in my head. So how do you quickly, you know, shift and change to start building that trust versus, you know, looking at this as as a character flaw and saying, oh, this is not the person I thought I married. Yeah, myth number two once trust is broken, it can never be rebuilt. Right?
Speaker 2:We've said it before yes, it can be rebuilt, but with time it takes consistency, it takes constant you know consistent remorse and it takes repair attempts. And we mean real repair attempts right, I mean betrayals happen. It's part of life, it happens in all relationships, not just romantic relationships. You just really have to be intentional, you need to be accountable and you need to show up differently in that relationship and also come up or come with a stance of I want to make amends and I want to show up in a way that is different from what we did before. Clearly, Clearly, we danced tango. It didn't work.
Speaker 1:Now let's try the bachata.
Speaker 2:Is that a dance? Yeah, okay, yeah, let's try that. Or, I don't know, salsa, something else. We need to do things differently in this relationship, so that awareness needs to be there yeah, I love that myth number three total transparency means total trust goodness. No, that is almost intrusive yeah right, and it's often rooted in anxiety and control, not necessarily and codependence. Right and codependence because healthy trust allows for autonomy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:People should be able to have their own space. Yeah, mm-hmm, and you don't need to monitor your partner. So if you have a healthy, you're in a healthy relationship. Really, there is no need to do 24-7 check-ins Not necessarily, no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, trust, you know, it's not about having all access. It's more about you kind of be content with the idea that, yes, my partner has integrity, my partner has a responsibility to this relationship and I'm going to trust that they were going to fulfill that and leaving it at that. What about myth number four? If you don't trust me, that's your insecurity.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. No, no. If someone has earned distrust through lies, being unreliable, emotionally withdrawn, with withholding information or, I guess, lying by omission, it's not really the partner's insecurity per se, it's a reflection of that relationship that they're in. So trust is not individual in a relationship, but at least it's relational.
Speaker 1:I feel like that statement itself is gaslighting right, like you're really trying to like push the onus back on the person when you yourself have proven that not to be trusted yeah, because trust issues are, they're co-created right, even if it's not evenly distributed by the accountability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we create this relationship of distrust yeah it's on both of us then, um, even recognizing, like you know, if your partner is demanding, calling you, checking where are you, where have you been? All of that stuff is starting to happen. You have to pause and say, hey, we don't trust each other. What's going on?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to ask yourself what have I done or how have I shown up in this relationship?
Speaker 2:that is kind of influencing how my partner is now engaging and interacting with me yeah, that's true yeah, myth number five if there's no cheating, there's no betrayal oh, my goodness, we talked about this already Everyday betrayals, emotional neglect, dismissing your partner's needs or even, you know, repeated broken promises yeah, those things can create distrust over time.
Speaker 1:Infidelity is only one form of betrayal. It's obviously the most jarring experience, but betrayal itself is a violation of trust, and not just sexual misconduct they just can't forget it, right?
Speaker 1:they're just like big things, uh, but then that's why, when people come into therapy, they can't really pinpoint what went wrong in a relationship yeah, because they've been, they've been having these micro betrayals like reoccurring over time, and because it doesn't look like infidelity, right, then the person would either, you know, dismiss the person's feelings or kind of double down on it or gaslight right. And so when, when the betrayal doesn't look like you know the capital B betrayal, people can really kind of not take ownership or accountability for that, because you can't really defend infidelity. I mean, people try, right, but you can't really defend it ethically. Um, but you can, you know, like say, oh, you're projecting your insecurity on me, I'm just having, I'm just having a female friend.
Speaker 2:Like you know, you can really rationalize away somebody's um concerns when it's just these micro betrayals yeah, that's that's what I think, and sometimes if, if you are in a position to do something for your partner and that's something they're requesting. Like it feels so small, but it makes a difference. It makes a huge difference. Like, babe, can you get me some water?
Speaker 1:like if I'm by the water, you know if I'm there anyways, it doesn't hurt to be like, yes, here you go, I'll get it for you, or you know it's like if your partner doesn't like surprise parties and you still throw a surprise party, right, and it's like, well, I'm throwing throw a surprise party, right, and it's like, well, I'm throwing them a surprise party, like I'm doing something good, but in reality you're completely ignoring their wishes and you're going against what they wanted. And the message that you're sending to your partner is I don't care if you're uncomfortable, I don't care what you want, I'm going to do what I think is right and what I think makes me feel good about myself yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So all of those things, well, we have some bonus reflection questions for our listeners thinking about, like your own relationship. What does trust mean to you and how do you know it's present in your relationship?
Speaker 2:that's a really good one, and thinking about what small moments made you feel seen or unseen in your relationship.
Speaker 1:Maybe you can have a conversation with your partner and ask those questions yeah, and then you know, are there any areas where you feel secrecy or emotional withholding is showing up?
Speaker 2:That one is good.
Speaker 1:Food for thought, just things to reflect on in your own relationships as we move forward. Again, thank you for listening. We appreciate you all and we look forward to our next episode. Thank you.
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