For the Love of Facts
For the Love of Facts is a podcast where two therapists, Dr. Zamzam Dini and Dr. Kadija Mussa, unpack the truths behind love, relationships, and healing. In a world full of noise and myths, we bring culturally grounded, evidence-based conversations that center faith, connection, and care. No fluff—just facts.
For the Love of Facts
Far Apart, Still A Family
Love doesn’t disappear across borders, but the daily moments that build trust do—and that gap can turn reunions into standoffs. We dive into the lived reality of transnational families: why parents leave, how kids make sense of absence, and what it takes to rebuild a relationship when time has marched on. From attachment needs in early childhood to the identity storms of adolescence, we map the developmental windows where presence matters most and the emotional fallout when it’s missing.
Drawing from therapy room stories, we unpack a father who tried to “press play” after years away and a teen who saw a stranger claiming authority. We talk about trust like a jar—how missed birthdays, school plays, and simple breakfasts become withdrawals with interest—and why lectures push adult children further out of reach. Instead, we offer a roadmap for reunification that centers humility and consistency: acknowledge the hurt without defense, shift from command to curiosity, co-create clear expectations, and build small rituals that are easy to keep. We also name the harder truths: risks when kids live with extended relatives, the rise of hyper-independence, and the heavy self-blame many children carry.
This conversation is practical and hope-forward. You’ll leave with language to defuse power clashes, steps to repair after conflict, and a fresh frame: you’re not rewinding the past; you’re building a new bond that fits who you both are now. If this resonates, share it with someone navigating separation or reunification, subscribe for more grounded conversations on family healing, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your story—and your next step—could be the bridge someone else needs.
Follow us on instagram @fortheloveoffacts!
Immigrant parents often sacrifice themselves for the children, but the children don't always experience it as love. Today we're going to touch on a very, very touchy and hot topic of transnational families. Sam, can you say more about that? What is transnational families?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I like to think about like transnational families as family systems, right? People that are closely related, but for some reason or circumstance, they've been kind of pushed to different places across the globe. You know, we think about like refugees or immigrants or migrants, people who are, you know, internally displaced in their home country. But the notion is that, you know, you may have like a mother and a daughter in one continent, and then like the rest of the families in another continent. And so they're still very close to each other, communicate daily, but they're just so far apart physically. The also important thing about transnational families is that migration patterns change, right? They can they can change at any moment. And so now you have that mother and daughter who were away from the family for maybe like six, seven years that are not part of the family due to immigration. And now you have a mother who you haven't seen for seven years, and now you're a high school senior. And that distance apart physically really influences the dynamics in the family and the home.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think it's it's important to recognize that families separate for many, many reasons, right?
SPEAKER_02:It could be sociable.
SPEAKER_03:Sometimes it's visa issues, right? One person has to leave and get something somewhere in order to bring the family. So mainly that ends up being the males generally leaving the family behind. And of course, for safety, right? Internationally, I mean, especially right now, if we're talking about um crisis around the globe. So people are seeking safety and they can't always leave at the same time. So it's it's I think it's very common, just not talked about openly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And you know, like like you said, the reasons behind it are are varied and they're not all negative. However, right, that emotional connection, right? That was you know, that separation was there. And honestly, it doesn't really care why it happened, right? All it all it knows is that like my mother was away from me for four years and now she's back. Like, what do I do?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, I think the emotional toll, the impact is there regardless of knowledge or like the the reason processing, right? And I think if we talk about the reason, right, to just make it more salient for people. We can talk about some immigrants leave for economic reasons, right? Some forced immigrant and migrants where they have to leave for safety reasons. Yeah, they're more classified as refugees, classified as refugees, and they don't really have a choice. And also, of course, the host fad the host countries family reunification process and visa documentation, all of those things can take time. So it's not a choice made actively sometimes, right? Where don't have a choice in that process, like they have to leave their home, but then they can't bring their family for some time at least. So all of those things happen, and at the same time, when we talk about it, what are the emotional toll on the children?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, children have a very like a sensitive timeline of development, right? Where it's like from this age to this age, they really need their caregiver around. And that's usually, you know, school age, right? Pre-adolescence, to kind of develop those attachment connections with their, you know, their primary caregiver. And even if, you know, like grandma's around, right, aunties here, if your mother or father is not present in your life and they're still around, like that has a huge emotional toll on a child, right? Sometimes children can blame themselves, right? And say, like, oh, mom is not here because she has to work because of me, or you know, they want a better life somewhere else. And so children don't have the developmental like capacity to rationalize things, and so the easiest thing to do is blame yourself.
SPEAKER_03:I think that the they don't have the developmental capacity to understand adult logic, that just flies over their head, and the easiest thing to do is internalize that separation as a rejection. Absolutely. I think if we go back to developmental stages, right, between zero to five is that's that emotional nurturing. That's when you develop that love and connection and attachment. Um, the person is not there, so now you have a deficit in that, right?
SPEAKER_01:Um, FaceTime, all of that, but it's not the same as that's not because our nervous systems communicate with each other, like we really physically need to be in presence of space, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You're a fun picture on FaceTime, but you're not a safe space where I somebody I go to and I have a boo-boo, someone that is actively participating and raising me and having that attachment relationship. And then you want to from you know the age of five to early adolescence, is when they internalize the parents' moral compass. Children take on your moral reasoning and they understand uh the world through your worldview. We call that internalizing of parents' i guess worldview. They don't again get to do that, so they don't represent you, they don't look like you after that stage of development. And then, of course, uh, once they go into the adults, and that's then the peer pressure, right? They're idealization to try it.
SPEAKER_01:Matters more what their friends are doing versus what the family's doing.
SPEAKER_03:So you do have those, like I would say, first 12 to 13 years of molding and making sure they take on your how you view the world, how you reason, how you think through problems. And if you had missed those years, um you get children that you don't understand.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, almost feel like you know, strangers to each other.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like who are you, man? I I would never do that, and then you have to think of to yourself, oh, they never learned how I do things.
SPEAKER_01:And I think, and I don't wanna be too much of a downer, but there's also this like potential risk of whoever you leave your child with, right, may not have the their best interests at heart. And I've seen a lot like firsthand of just like people who children who are left with relatives who are physically abused or taken advantage of and like kind of used as like you know, like Cinderella, like I feel like that Cinderella's life is really is true, you know, and you and the parents aren't there. All they do is send money back home, and they're not, you know, the primary caregivers, and they don't know what's happening to the to the children. And then these children resent their parents for leaving them in the situation.
SPEAKER_03:And don't forget, because these kids lived in that environment, they are hyper-independent, yes, yeah for themselves, they do things for themselves because they've got right now. Yeah, and of course, uh, I think you have to normalize the anger or even just confusion. So if they understood, like, oh, you have to leave because you need to make life better for us, you need to earn, you need to do all of those things. Yeah, at the same time, it's still like, why couldn't you take me with you?
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Why don't you come back sooner?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like then why how why did you leave me with the strangers or even like if maybe you couldn't find better people, people that loved me and cared for me. Again, I as a parent, you're not in you can't really you do the best you can in making that decision at the same time, but you don't know what people are like when you're not.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, once you're gone, you're gone. And those places aren't like places you can come back from. Like you're just not even accessible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So those things do do happen.
SPEAKER_02:And I also think about uh identity and like feeling disconnected, right, from a parent, feeling like a burden, maybe sometimes, like, oh, if my parents didn't have us, would they need to have left?
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah, yeah, like would would we would my parents have to make such tough decisions if they don't have to think about me, right? And my livelihood. Yeah, and if you know, as adults we think, oh, children shouldn't be thinking about that. But that's really, you know, the thoughts that go through their minds because they just want to make sense of things, and that's the the most easiest thing they can think of.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Do you have in your clinical practice any families who have experienced this issue?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, actually, I was working with a family, one of my first family cases, actually, ever, is really exciting. For where the family therapy was mandated because the parents were going through divorce. So, what happened was the judge required family therapy because the father was absent from the children for two years. He just got up and disappeared and now wanted to be back in his children's lives. And that was a very difficult experience because, you know, like as a family therapist, like you want to work through, you want to support the family, but then you also get like why, you know, there's the children ranged from like four years old to like 16. So like some of them really understood what was happening and others did not, right? You can see like the younger children like viewed their dad as a stranger, and the older children had a lot of resentment and and anger, right? Of like, and and the dad kept showing up in therapy and was just saying, Hey, I'm your dad, I'm your dad, like fun exercise. And I was like, this is so complicated and nuanced, right? And it, you know, it's ruined the reason why I love doing family therapy, but also, right, it's like the situation is so complicated, and you know, everyone has a right to feel the way that they're feeling. And how do you come back from that, right? How do you like develop any kind of connection when you feel like your dad abandoned you? And so it took us a while to kind of work through that betrayal, that mistrust, but then also like you know, supporting dad and taking a step back from like exerting authority, but really just allowing his children to share like their thoughts and feelings, and with him accepting it, holding it. And eventually, we know we got to a place where he could just hear them out and they could just talk about things, and it didn't turn into a lecture every session, right? And so and so you know, it was a really beautiful experience that was truly complicated and painful, but and that was only two years, and then we're in the same country, right? So it's like think about like not being able to talk to your parents for seven years, and then now they're back in your life.
SPEAKER_03:That that's the most amazing thing. I can give you an example. I did have a young man who was 16, reunification with his father, who was here and he left when he was three years old. So you can imagine it was over a decade of separation. Wow, yeah, a very long time. Yeah, yeah, his dad's like, Oh, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that.
SPEAKER_01:You're gonna see his dad wants he wants to start right where he left. I know, like they click pause and then they left and they come back like eight years later, and they're like, Yep, let's let's click play.
SPEAKER_03:Now I'm like I'm your father, and you get and this dude legit, you can see the disdain on his face. So you can't tell me what to do, man. And this is how he talks to him. Yeah, he's like, Look at this. How how dare you say that to me? And he's like, You can't just build that parent-child relationship, yeah. This kid doesn't remember you, right? Like he doesn't know you, yeah. Grandpa here and there, but you were not an active participant in his life, and he didn't mean to answer to you. This is legitimately the only time he has to like answer to you and negotiate with you, and but then he is at a stage developmentally where he's trying to find his space as a man. He like he's grown, right? You're supposed to provide counsel, you should. But if you had gone through development together, you growing as a parent and him growing as a child into just every adult person, you would have built that rapport, you would have had that relationship. Then just it's more of like you're providing counsel and you would be receptive to that because you know, trust that you have like a mentor, you know, relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Like this is my dad.
SPEAKER_03:Like, no, even just think about trust, Sam. Like we tell people in therapy, think of it as a jar, and people deposit into it. That father's deposit is empty. Yeah, withdraw, man.
SPEAKER_01:You almost see he's in the negative, he's in the negative. You cannot imagine, like, he's missed football games, he's missed graduations, holidays. Like every time that like child makes that realization, like, yeah, you're in the negative.
SPEAKER_03:You were in the negative, you come to me all of a sudden, you because in your mind, you have been working, providing, doing all of these things. Yeah, yeah. Human relationship was never there. So now you're like, okay, making demands on this child, and this child is looking at you sideways. He was legit looking at him sideways, and then you know what his solution was? I'm gonna send you back. Oh my goodness, yeah, yeah, no, that can't be a solution, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because now it has to be the kids' fault, but now the relationship is fully severed, right?
SPEAKER_03:Now you risk the not having relationship into adulthood, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So what you're saying is that like that emotional distance from parents remains even after reunification, yes, even if they're back and you're like, hey, I'm back, like it doesn't change anything.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I think when I used to coach parents and educate parents, we try to tell them to take the child's point of view, you know, somebody else's shoes, right? Their point of view and empathize and also come at it from that side. Like if this father had said, I don't know how you've been all of this time, I don't know how you grew up, but you know, now you live with me, these are my expectations. Can we work around that? Right, like bring him in as a partner. Can we figure out something? How can we both be happy in this situation? I think the kid would have sat down and negotiated, but then he was like, I'm your father, how you not respect me?
SPEAKER_01:Those are fighting words. I'm sorry. In my therapy room, those are fighting words. Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_03:People, people then the kid gets activated, like, you are my father. Did you say you're my father? And yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Where were you the past seven years?
SPEAKER_03:You're my dad. And he's like, I don't remember this man, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You don't know him, sir. That's what he's saying. Like, he's like, I don't remember this guy. And I get it, I get it from the parents' perspective too, because if you're like away from your child for all these years, that is so painful, right? And so the only thing that gets you through each day is that reminding yourself of like you're doing this for your child, and you're sacrificing the time apart so that they can have a better life than you have. And if and it makes sense, right? That motivates you, that continues to push you. And in your mind, like there's nothing wrong, you're not doing anything wrong. And and so in their head, this is for my baby. And however, like in reality, time has passed, right? People have grown and people have grown apart, but that reality doesn't set in until they actually see the child in front of them looking at them like a stranger, and it just feels painful, right? It hurts. And so what the what do they do then? Now they want to exert their power, right? Say, hey, no, I'm your dad. I did all of this for you. Like for every single day I woke up for you. But the child doesn't have that awareness, that understanding. And it's just like everyone is miscommunicating, right? They're they're on different wavelengths and they keep missing each other.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think at the as adults, I have seen adult children, they understand it intellectually, but at the same time, there is this gap of like, yeah, I don't know what to talk to them about. We're emotionally, right? Those are things that intentionally need to be built. And I don't know about other communities, but in our communities, parents assume they just have relationship, good relationship with their kids. Yeah. Right? Like, oh, I have to listen to you, and they always default into this. I'm lecturing you, I'm teaching you more.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Oh my god. Do you know how many lectures I'm having to interrupt in session?
SPEAKER_03:You don't lecture your adult children, you provided the guidance when asked, right? Like when asked, do not give unsolicited advice to your adult children. Because you're just a guide at this point, like you have wisdom, you have knowledge. Kids should come to you because they value that, but not you. And then really every phone call turns into a lecture. Then why would they want to call you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03:Like it doesn't feel good to interact. The interaction doesn't feel good, so therefore it becomes less and less, and then to the minds of the parents, these are ungrateful children. Disrespect they don't even call me. Yeah, besides, I don't even know why I'm calling this person. Every time I call them, I feel bad.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I feel like I'm I'm in trouble.
SPEAKER_03:I'm in trouble every time, so I'm just gonna call them, you know, when mandatory on Eid.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. That's it.
SPEAKER_03:That's it. Like, I don't want to talk to you, I'm not calling you for fun. Like, we don't have that kind of relationship, yeah. And it's very sad for both. Because I've had a client say to me once, I wish I have access to my parents' wisdom, right? Like the things they know, like I wish they could give me guidance. Just like I'm so guarded in my relationship with them, I can't ever voluntarily bring up a problem because it will turn into something else. Yeah, like if I'm having problems, I just have to figure it out on my own. Because if I bring it up to my parents, like they're not there to guide and to provide guidance in that, so they're just there to let you know.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, yeah, and then just knowing that too is just another level of pain.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I think we got into all the everything, but maybe next time we can teach people a little bit more on how to do reunification.
SPEAKER_01:How do you bring families back together? Right, and and how do you kind of create a bridge, right? Because it's not gonna mend itself, even even like you know, scars that have healed, right, still have have scars. And so it's not gonna be the way it was before, but you can definitely continue to build a new relationship that has different dynamics that that is healthy for both people. And you know, just it's not it's not the end of the world, right? And people can come back together and and be stronger.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's what I think.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Thank you all for listening.
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