For the Love of Facts
For the Love of Facts is a podcast where two therapists, Dr. Zamzam Dini and Dr. Kadija Mussa, unpack the truths behind love, relationships, and healing. In a world full of noise and myths, we bring culturally grounded, evidence-based conversations that center faith, connection, and care. No fluff—just facts.
For the Love of Facts
Who Gets To Feel At Home
What if the roots of a family’s struggle aren’t inside the home at all, but woven into the systems around it? We pull the camera back to map how institutions shape safety, belonging, and the survival mindsets people carry across borders. From disproportionate school discipline to the quiet decisions families make to protect their kids, we connect the dots between policy, culture, and the everyday choices that can look like “withdrawal” but are really shields against harm.
Our conversation moves from othering and in-group instincts to the deeper layers of land and identity. We explore why many Indigenous communities tie existence to place, how dispossession works through law as well as force, and why repair must be material to be real. Along the way, we unpack why immigrants can call two places “home” without rejecting either, and how unconditional acceptance differs from the conditional welcome that demands assimilation. Belonging isn’t a soft idea here; it’s a social technology that makes communities safer, more generous, and more resilient.
We don’t stop at critique. We talk about what reduces fear and expands the circle: restorative practices in schools, policies that keep people rooted, workplaces that prize cultural and linguistic skill, and the everyday acts that make neighbors feel seen. Tension isn’t something to avoid; it’s the friction that forges better norms when we face it together. If you’ve ever wondered why the same debates repeat every time scarcity rises, or how to move from othering to integration that actually lasts, this conversation offers clarity and concrete starting points.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who cares about community, and leave a review to help more listeners find these stories and ideas.
Follow us on instagram @fortheloveoffacts!
Hey everyone, thank you for coming back again. Today we're gonna take you a little bit beyond what we've got been talking about with you know couples, families, and really taking a bird's eye view of systemic oppression and what that does to individuals. So sometimes you know survival strategies are developed to make sense of unsafe systems and they don't disappear when we migrate because we find ourselves in a different set of systems that are still oppressive to people. What are your thoughts on this topic, Sam?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it's really important because sometimes issues that are impacting the family and individuals are really systemic issues. And because it's a system problem.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's true. And I think sometimes we forget that when governments fail or institutions fail, individuals, then you know, there is a vacuum in leadership, and some people step up to the plate. But then I don't think that is always conducive to the goal of everybody.
SPEAKER_01:And the thing with like systemic influence is it's hard to notice is happening, right? It's hard to identify, and so we think this is just like a normal environment when there's like an active system at play in the background.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think we're we're saying something, but I don't know if we're telling people lightly enough, right? So, for example, when we think about like systemic failures, I think about in schools, I worked a lot in schools where systematically they would because be harsh in punishment to students of color, right? And I I don't think any one individual is doing it um in like intentionally per se. But however, it still creates an unsafe environment, and then you know how that how parents respond to that is by being hyper-vigilant and then trying to minimize the risk, right? To try to make sense of it. Because, like, I don't think anybody would send their child to school if they actually truly open their eyes and thought, okay, my child is unsafe in that environment.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So there is oppression creates um this dissonance in your brain, and then you have to try to make sense of things, and then you do create these dogmas and you create things that don't really make sense. I mean, you create ideas that try to conceptualize the world and make sense of it, and then it also makes you put up boundaries that shuts out other people. And when I say that, I'm thinking of like, you know, a family that has migrated to the United States, and if they feel unsafe, then that family keeps to themselves, right? And then people say, Oh, why don't they assimilate? Right? They don't make friends with the native population or you know, the other communities, so the community sticks together because they feel unsafe, right? And then if you go globally and then you open it up, you know, like we are Africans to like our regions, you know, then we keep, we create boundary, and that boundary only encompasses like your tribe, encompasses your clan, right? Anything beyond that feels unsafe. So you create these rigid boundaries, and then you don't try to interact or even try to understand what is going on on the other side. Because if I open this up, like the floodgates open.
SPEAKER_01:It's like this this notion of the othering, right? When you other somebody else, it makes you feel secure because you know you have an in-group, right? You know, we're going back to basic psychology, right? In-group, out group. You're more comfortable the folks that you feel like you have more in common with. And so if you're in a community where maybe you are the same ethnicity, that in-group needs to be more defined. So this is where you know that tribalism comes in, you know, this lineage that, like, oh well, I'm part of this tribe, and so I belong to this community. And therefore, my resources are a lot more because I've narrowed kind of my community and who has access to my resources. So it's still that survival mindset, but on a larger scale, right?
SPEAKER_00:Survival mindset, but driven by like systemic instability. Um and then, you know, here if you think about host countries for immigrants, it's very easy to other immigrants, right? Because there is that phenotypic difference. And then if you really want to, you can take anything to demonize the community. Like it's it's easy to do that, and then the more you prosecute a community, the more they keep to themselves. Um I mean, in some ways, I even feel like I understand from the historical point of view why some people take land and say, This is ours, this is mine, right? Like if you have always been dispossessed, if you've always made to lose things, and then it would technically make sense why you would want to find a place in in the world for you where you can finally say, Okay, I'm safe here. But then sadly, that's not how you build safety.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you're talking about people who are like historically displaced for generations. Yeah. Absolutely, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if I've talked about this before, but you know, land and the environment is really closely connected to identity and existence, right? Which is why the genocide of Native Americans in this country wasn't only through like cultural laws, but physically like land laws, right? And how liberation and decolonization includes land back, right? Even if you think about something as simple as your childhood home, right? Where it's like the rooms there have meaning, right? There's like markings on the wall, or there's stories where you took your first steps, right, in your neighborhood. Like all of that is connected to the physical structure of the house or the neighborhood. And so if we think about it, like land and space like proves human existence. That's why we have archaeologists who are out there who are studying, right? Like lost civilizations, because the land proved they existed, and so it's very, very closely connected to each other.
SPEAKER_00:And also, I think you have to think about indigenous peoples, like origin history, right? And everybody is always tied to the sun, the moon, the land, right? All of those things, and specifically, then land is tangible, yeah. And people have a relationship, relationship with the land, right? And for me, my people would say, like, I want to be buried where my uh, you know, when they cut the the cord, um, you know, you're in the the umbilical cord buried, right? That gets buried in your land, and you want to be buried where that is buried, right? Like, so they tell these, you know, profound stories of like you come from this land and you go back to this land, yeah. Um, so I think thinking about because not all nations or all people have similar relationship to land, right? I think a lot of indigenous groups have this very sacred relationship with the land.
SPEAKER_01:They're caretakers of the land, right?
SPEAKER_00:Instead of like conquering a land, right, right, and not trying to make it work for them. Um, so in that sense, then I feel like it's almost like different worldviews.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, historically, right? Like, you know, when we think about who has exploited land versus who has, you know, died for their ancestral land, like there's a there's a lot of importance in like how you treat your like mother, like ancestral, like space defines how like what what values stem from how you treat that place, right? And and it expands not just to land, but also to like sustainability, right? And and and wildlife. And it goes beyond just kind of yourself and like what can I extract from the earth to make me richer or feed my belly, right? It's more about well, well, how can we live in conjunction with the land and give and take, right? What can I do to sustain this place for a very long time?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, one concept that I've been thinking about, and people seem to be getting offended by it, is like, oh, how do immigrants who have lived here still continue to say home to wherever they came from, right? So, like this, so is this not your home? Like to try to use that against you. And I think about the person who has they have memories back home. I've lived back home. And it is that it's not just that, like, oh, I'm go, it's where all of my ancestors are from. Yeah, it's more of it's where I felt one with the people. I didn't feel like an outsider, right? Like it's where I I mean, whichever way I looked, everybody spoke the language that I spoke, right? Um, and I felt like I belonged in in this place, and it is almost like uh something divine that no one can take away from me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. It's like uh acceptance that doesn't go away.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not conditional acceptance, and I guess that's where I'm getting at. It's not conditional acceptance. So you you know, people can say whatever they felt like saying, but like this is where you are, and this is where you're supposed to be, and it just feels right. So that feeling you can you keep chasing it, I think, you know, once you've relocated, right? I feel like I've been chasing that feeling, but I don't think I've found it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yes, the sense of belonging, the need to be in community, the need to just kind of be one with your environment is very uh like deeply rooted in human nature, right? We're social creatures. And I always thought sense of belongingness was something that like adolescents and youth really craved. Developmentally, that's true. But in my research, I found that even adult immigrants that have been here for 40 years, who are in their 60s, 70s, they still describe the sense of like not feeling like they belong, right? And and that was something that was really kind of uh eye-opening for me to just imagine, like as an as an uh elder, right? Like if you were back home, you would have like high regard, right? And your up, you know, your experience would be valued, will be, would be valued, and you would be in a certain type of like social structure, and then to be in a foreign land and then still not have a sense of belonging, like towards the you know, latter half of your life, and that just being kind of your core experience moving forward. I think that's that's a really hard pill to swallow.
SPEAKER_00:It is a hard pill to swallow, but I also want people on the other end to think that like beyond just saying, okay, people are coming here, how are we making people feel at home?
SPEAKER_01:Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Like, are we going out of our way or like even actually staying out of their way feeling at home? Right. Like live, right? And be in a right, yeah, be in existence. And uh, the funny thing is that tribal mindset, the human nature of like, oh, I'm gonna stick to my own when I feel like resources are finite, and you know, that scarcity mindset, then I have to like hoard things for my own and turn inward. Turn inward that happens everywhere. For some reason, people think they're immune, like if they live in a western country, like they don't have that mindset. You just don't.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's happening right now, right? With like grocery prices going up, people losing jobs, and now like everyone's angry at immigrants again, right? It's it's that same cycle, and it happens at different scales and and all over the world, is basic human behavior.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, even behavior when you feel like you're threatened, also, when you feel like there's some sort of threat to your you know, I call it like existential crisis, which is manufactured, but it is there, people feeling like they are being erased somehow, and then they become harsh and they become punitive, and then I don't know, I don't know what the cure is as far as systemic cure, like to, but I think the start is just calling a spade a spade, right? Like you start by having the real conversations, by getting to know your neighbors and not be activated if people say words like, you know, I'm going back home, or like that's home. Um and just be in a space of ambiguity, I think.
SPEAKER_01:I often say, like, to not like look at immigrants who want to hold on to their home culture as a form of rejection of this culture, right? It's more about integration. They have a right to both. And if they want to mix and match and and find a way to live that makes sense for them, they have that right to do that, right? Just because they're in this land, it does not mean they have to like leave everything they've ever known behind to be accepted, because that that wouldn't be a fair ask.
SPEAKER_00:It wouldn't be a fair ask, and then that's like a conditional acceptance, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So then that the in turn makes them feel like they are outsiders. Um, it just perpetuates the cycle.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's when it becomes systemic, right? It becomes like this well-oiled machine that just automatically kind of you know pumps this out, and people don't realize they're doing it, or they don't realize they're experiencing it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or they operate within a system that functions a certain way, and they need to have, I guess, the discernment to be able to call it out and say, like, okay, this is how this system is functioning. And he human beings are always striving to make things better. Yeah, and I think tension is good. Um, it's not something you should run away from, it really is something to be confronted and sat with and contemplated and thought about. But really, I think these are just my thoughts to try to make sense of the world we live in now and how it continues to create conditions and systems that traumatize people and families and in and and unintentionally somehow strip away humanity from a people. Yeah. And I think yeah, you you really have to educate yourself and think about if I was you know in this same situation, what kind of grace and understanding would I want from others?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. All right, beautiful. Well, thank you all for listening, and we look forward for you in joining us on another another episode.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, thank you.
.JPG)
