Ep. 5 - The American Outlaws (with Trevin Wurm)

Shaun is joined by Trevin Wurm to dive deep into the American Outlaws and their plans for the upcoming World Cup. 

Here is a rundown for this interview:

• Introduction
• What are the American Outlaws?
• Long term goals for AO
• Why should you watch soccer out with a group of people?
• American Outlaws World Cup plans
• 26-man roster reflection
• Dream hypothetical for the U.S.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Friends on Football Podcast. I'm your host, John Boyle, and joining me today, we have a very special guest. He is the chapter management lead for the American Outlaws. It is Mr. Trevan Worm. Trevin, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

I'm great. Thanks for having me. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

I'm doing well. Thank you. I appreciate you taking some time out to come on the show. Yeah, absolutely. Happy to be here. Why don't you just give the listeners a bit about your background and how you became a fan of the world's game?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, so I'm uh I'm from Lincoln, Nebraska and live in Lincoln, Nebraska, which is also the home of American Outlaws. Uh, but I started playing soccer when I was in kindergarten. Um, played with a lot of friends, and uh, we became soccer fans through that. I sort of grew up in the shadow of the 94 Men's World Cup here in the U.S. and the creation of MLS. So every now and then you'd see a game on TV that was MLS, or in the mornings you'd see like a Manchester United or a Chelsea game uh when they were starting to broadcast those over here. Uh but I really became a fan of the game in '99 during the Women's World Cup. Because that was the first time I was sort of old enough to tell my parents, hey, I want to watch this on TV and you know, keeping up with the scores in the newspaper. And I remember uh, you know, for the final, my family took a trip to Minnesota because every Midwestern family at some point has to make a pilgrimage to the Mall of America. So I remember being at the Mall of America and people talking about it and being like, we have to be back to the hotel room to watch this this game, this final, and getting my parents to go back and watch the shootout, and just sort of seeing them even being engaged in it. They didn't really care about soccer at all. But seeing how excited they were was just that that really got me hooked on the national team and sort of figuring out like what what that is exactly and how it how it differs from club soccer. So that was really the start of my journey with soccer, and then sort of fell in love with the the men's team for better or worse from then on out.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

That's awesome. Yeah. I did not expect to hear the Mall of America come up in your answer, but that I actually lived in Minneapolis for a year, and I think I've only went to the Mall of America a few times. So it was kind of like you have to go see it, but then that's it.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yep, yep. You have to go see it just to say you've been to the big mall, and then you can uh never go to the big mall again.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

So exactly. Uh which clubs do you support outside of the US MNT?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, I mean, just for proximity, you know, sporting Kansas City is the easy answer. Um, or Union Omaha here in Nebraska. Um but I'm actually uh the biggest fan of uh Brighton and Hovelby and the Mighty Seagulls. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

That's awesome. Okay. I like hearing some outside the box answers. Usually you talk to people and it's pretty much the big six, which you can see behind me, I'm a big Spurs fan. But Brighton, that's an exciting team. Thank you. Yeah. I feel bad saying thank you for staying up, but you are the one who deserves congratulations. You guys are playing European football games.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

We're back in Europe, yeah. My friends and I, uh the the way I became a fan was in 2019, uh, the first friend in our friend group was having a child. And so we were like, we should do something fun, like go to New York or LA or something. And he was like, you know, let's go to a Premier League game. And uh so we found literally a weekend to go, like a Thursday to Sunday. And it was towards the end of the season when they start to play the games kind of at the same time. And the only one that really worked for our window with our flight in and out of London was to go down to Brighton. And uh so we went to a game. Uh, it was a 1-1 draw. I think it was the first game Brighton had scored in like nine tries, and it was it was what kind of kept them in the Premier League that year. So it was really exciting and just fell in love with that city. It's a fun little city if you ever get a chance to go. But um, and actually, the that friend named his second child Brighton uh because of that whole thing. So you know you can't accuse us of being fake Seagull fans here in Nebraska. We're we're we're seagulls through and through.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

That's really cool. I I actually have seen Brighton play, but I've never been to Brighton. I went to a Tottenham match. It was right after they won the Europa League, and we faced Brighton in the last game of the season, where I'm pretty sure our players were still kind of hung over and we got absolutely battered.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah, we got battered. I remember that game because I have a few friends that are Tottenham fans and just being like, you know what, you guys, you just give this one a pass because your players are just too busy finally celebrating that trophy.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, and that was the last good moment we had as Spurs fans. But it's a big one. That's a discussion for another day. Why don't we jump into the American Outlaws? Can you just give a general overview, just kind of a 30,000-foot view of what American Outlaws is for someone who may never have heard of them before?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah, so we're the we're the largest U.S. soccer supporters group. Um, and we have a couple different areas that we operate in. So, first and foremost, um, we have chapter bars all across the United States in in most cities. We have over 200 chapters. Um, and most cities have a place that you can go and watch every U.S. men's and women's game. Um, so that's sort of the bigger picture. And then we also have a supporters section in each stadium where the US team is playing. Um, and within that section, if you're a member, you have discounts on tickets. Uh, we have a tailgate before the game that we always organize that anyone can come to, that you don't have to be a member to attend our tailgates, you don't have to uh you know be a member to access that stuff, but just the ticketing stuff is is where that is. And then we also organize a night before party. So if you travel in, to example, for San Jose for a game, um, there's a bar in San Jose you can go to, meet people from all across the country, and then tailgate with them the next day, sit in the section, chant, sing. And uh we're we're all about supporting US men's and women's teams. So every US men's game and every US women's game, um, we have those ticket allocations.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Yeah, I think from my experience with American Outlaws, it's it's a great way to just get involved. And sometimes it's kind of scary to take the leap on something if you're a casual soccer fan or maybe you don't know anything at all.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

I feel like the sense of community that you guys provide is really great for people who are looking to take that next step in their fandom. What about your role on a day-to-day basis in the organization? What do you do exactly?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Yeah, uh, well, I just want to touch on that point too, first, that that we really do try our best to be an organization that includes like people that have been longtime fans, diehards for a long time, and those people that are coming in for the first time. Uh, we take a lot of pride in making sure that we're welcoming, you know, anyone, anyone in that tent, you know, it's not just uh uh hardcore snobs. Uh, you know, not that anyone's a snob, uh, but I know what you mean. Yeah, no. You know what I mean? Like it's it's not uh it's not dominated by people who are just gonna say, like, you don't know who this player is, and they're playing in some obscure Moldovan league. And uh we we want to welcome everybody in that in that tent. Um but yeah, my my role as the chapter management lead is uh just making sure that our our chapters um are organized, they have leadership, um, which oftentimes is very hectic because there's over 200 chapters and then um helping them put on events, helping them find partnerships, um, and and just making sure that uh you know folks are following all the the little rules that we have. We don't have a ton of rules, but just making sure people are uh posting stuff, hosting watch parties, and and being as welcoming as they can be.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

That's great. You are also the president of AL Lincoln, correct? Yes, yes, that's right. And you mentioned to me when we were preparing for this, but I believe you're rolling out a beer with your local chapter. I think that's really cool. Maybe something you could talk about.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, yeah. So a lot of a lot of our chapters are doing uh special beers or ciders this year, especially with the World Cup. Um, so we partner with a local brewery here in Lincoln called White Elm. Uh we've we've been doing that for about, gosh, probably 10 years now. Um, but this year they made a Hellas Lager um that they're releasing for the World Cup. I actually have a can. I'm not I'm not drinking during the episode. I just have a can. Uh but that's it's got our logo on there. It's called Trophy Lifter. They made the can top gold for the World Cup this year. So um a lot of a lot of our chapters across the country are doing stuff like that. So it's we we try to do a lot of local stuff too, not just the big national stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

That's really cool. Yeah, I like that. That's a nice way to get involved as well. What are some of the longer-term goals of American Outlaws?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

I mean, our our biggest long-term goal is accessibility. Um, things keep getting more and more expensive. Event tickets keep getting more and more expensive. We are really proud that we negotiated within this last year a ticket cap for U.S. soccer games for people for fans within our section. Uh so for example, the upcoming game in Chicago against Germany, the final game before the World Cup. Um, that's a US soccer run game. So the tickets capped at $45, which is which is really reasonable, especially in today's like ticketing climate for a game at Soldier Field. Uh the game at Senegal, I think, is $30 to $35. Against Senegal is $30 to $35. We had to make a really tough choice this year, going into this year, uh, because things are getting more expensive, shipping's expensive, food at tailgates is more expensive, travel is more expensive, um, talking about whether or not we we were gonna raise our membership price, which is $30. And we made the choice not to because we didn't want to with with the way that fans are being nickel and dimed by this World Cup, we didn't want to make it seem like we're trying to cash in on that. Um so really try trying to put our money where our mouth is, make sure that we're fighting for accessibility from the on the US soccer side, but then also for ourselves um to make sure that everybody can access the game and support the team in the way that they want to. So long-term goal is is to open up soccer for everybody. And and like you mentioned earlier, we do we do try to strive to make our events a welcoming environment for anybody that wants to come by, whether it's your first soccer game, your hundredth soccer game. Um, and that that plays into that accessibility as well. So we want to make it fun, cheap, and and just as accessible as it possibly can be.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

You touched on a few interesting points there. One I wanted to follow up on is the World Cup ticket prices have been a hot button issue since the prices were released, and kind of the manner in which the tickets were rolled out was also questionable from FIFA. Do you have any insight on how that affected you guys? And then also just have tickets gotten to a better place recently? I know in some markets that those exorbitant prices are starting to drop a little bit, but I'm not so sure that that's everywhere. So I just kind of wondered if you had any insight into that.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Well, from our end, this is the first World Cup where we haven't been able to control any ticket distribution. Um generally we get like an allotted section, we control the the distribution of the tickets, we don't control the sale. Foys controls the sale. Uh, but we we still don't know in stadiums if we're going to have a section. We don't know where fans are sitting yet. Um you know, that's that's outside all the price stuff. Yeah. Uh we it's it's been it's just been hard for people, I think, to get excited when you have this dream of like, oh my god, I have a home world cup. This is the first time this happened in 30 years. And then to see that, just like I want to take my, you know, my dad took me to the game in 94. Like, I want to take my son or I want to take my daughter. And then it's like, oh, I I I can maybe afford a ticket for just myself. So we've we've heard a lot of those stories of of fans that want to take their families and just can't. Um so it's that's that's been just a hard thing to hear because you want to have it be this celebration and it hasn't really felt that way on the ticketing side. You know, we're doing our best to make sure our chapters are organized and having events all across the country to to make people feel included. Um but in terms of being in the stadium, it's uh it's tough ass to get people to pay thousands of dollars for a game.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah, and that's even before the cost of travel. Someone like me, I'm on the East Coast, I'm outside of Philadelphia. It would be a flight to the West Coast and then $1,000 roughly in tickets, and that's before any incidentals or lodging or anything's factored in. So it makes it a lot different than what I was expecting when it was announced that we would be hosting the World Cup, like you said, it creates a level of excitement for everyone. As a passionate soccer fan, it's the it's the thing you're oh my god, our country's hosting. I get to go to a game to see our team play. And then being priced out of that is it's tough for for everybody involved. So hopefully those prices get to a point where they're at least manageable and I'm able to go to a match or two. But yeah, like you mentioned, it's it's crazy that we don't even know where our supporter section will be sitting at games.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Oh my gosh, I know. It's it's it's it's wild. I never thought you know, we'd be this but literally we're what three weeks away now? And we still don't know. Like it makes it that makes it tough for us to have any kind of in-stadium environment, too. Like we want to do stuff like T-Foe's or bring in drums. And it's just like we we don't we we don't know if uh if you know we bring in a drum and we're just next to you know people that don't aren't familiar with the supporter section. It's like what the hell are you guys doing here with the drum? Like we're yeah, we're here to watch the game.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, that's that's crazy. Though those feel like things that should have been ironed out years ago, and the fact that we're now we we're counting weeks and days to to the first match and we still don't have answers is it's kind of shocking.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

One one might think one might think that would be the way it would work for an international organization, but uh you know, FIFA is can't you can't surprise me with FIFA anymore.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

So no, no, certainly, certainly that's a good point. Well, we talked about the people that won't be able to attend the matches for that variety of reasons. Why would you advocate for someone going and watching with their local chapter of American Outlaws? I know I can attest firsthand in my experience with it. If I love watching soccer with a group of people to begin with, I think there's really no better way to take in a game, especially a game that you have a rooting interest in. When a you see a goal go through the net or there's a moment to really cheer about, there's no better place to do it than to share it with the community if you can't be inside the stadium. So maybe you can touch on some of the reasons you would advocate for someone to go to a watch party for American Outlaws.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

I think there's just like you were saying, when that when that ball goes in the net for the first time, there especially in a World Cup, there's just nothing like that. So, like what really got me to join AO, like I joined in 2014 during the Brazil World. Um it was it was the first time I was really old enough to go to La Bar. And I'd kind of been aware of American Outlaws, but uh I went for the US Ghana game and that was when Dempsey scored within like what two minutes or three minutes or something. And people were like still in line to get their beers and stuff, and and people just lost their minds. Like everyone's hugging each other, jumping up and down. Um, and then like you go through the match and there's tension and Ghana scores. And you know, Ghana had been the a thorn on our side for the previous two World Cups, the last two World Cups. And then just that there's something in soccer that's so unique about the tension and the build-up to a goal. And when you're with a group of people, it just amplifies and amplifies and builds and builds and builds. And then you know, that John Brooks header just that that moment, or the the people always talk about that land anonymous goal too against Algeria. Just that moment of people you you remember where you are when those goals are scored. Um, I live in Nebraska and and the football is sort of the king here. I don't remember every single touchdown that that Nebraska scores in a given season. But I can I can remember every US World Cup goal that I've ever seen. Um and like who you're with and and who you've been talking to, what you were talking about right before it happened, or or you know, remembering a stranger who dropped their beer on all over your shoes during the the Wales game when Tim Wea sword that I still like have stains on those shoes from. Those are those are just things that it's just it's that that community and that friendship that you gain. I I gained some friends during World Cup Watch parties too. Like just people that you got that you don't see and uh then they want to come to war games with you. And it's it's just it's the main it's an amazing an amazing community that we've built um all across the country. Uh and to see it during a World Cup and during a home World Cup in prime time, it's gonna be something really special.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Uh yeah, I think you brought up a lot of things that I agree with. The main thing, soccer gives us moments, whereas, like you mentioned in football, there are so many things that occur that it's easy to get lost in kind of what's happening. There's so many things that nothing really stands out as the ultimate decisive moment. And a lot of people use that as a stick to beat soccer with is oh, it's oh, it's kind of boring. There's nothing that happens, the final score is one, nothing. But it gives you on the flip side that spectacular moment that you'll never forget for the rest of your life. So I think that's worth the trade-off in and of itself. And then as you become more and more of a fan of the game, you notice that a lot is happening within those 90 minutes that might not be as easy to remember as the goal would be. But when you become a fan of the sport, you start to notice more and more. And I think that that's when your interest just it keeps growing and growing because of things like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, yeah. Watching watching at a bar with a bunch of your friends and a bunch of strangers is a lot different than watching at home trying to play explain offside to your mom. But you know that's just that's a good point. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

No, no offense my mom, but and the the thing is we'll we'll explain it one time, but it's the it's the fifth time you have to explain it where it's like, yeah, it's it's still offside.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Once you start breaking out like a salt and pepper shaker is a diagram, then you know all hope is lost.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

That's great. At a broad level, you've talked about it a little bit, but just at a broad level, what are American Outlaws plans for this World Cup? How are you guys approaching this basically once-in-a-lifetime opportunity?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we we really are doing our best to try and make sure our chapters are active and have leadership that are that are building up for the World Cup, um, uh providing resources for them to be able to post on social media or talk to local local media about what's been going on um and what they're gonna do. And then before those games in LA and Seattle, um, we're gonna have some huge uh pre-game festivities. Um Seattle will be an area called the Harbor Steps, which is like about an acre of space um attached to a brewery in downtown. Um and the night before party we'll have like some music going on. Um there's like a cover band that's pretty well known in Seattle that'll be playing. Um we're gonna have really big marches to the stadiums in LA and Seattle that we've been planning. Uh oh, in LA, the place is just called the meeting spot that we'll be hanging out at, which is really close to SoFi. That's cool. Um anyone, you know, we're not charging to come in. Uh anyone who's if you're a member, not a member, you can come in and experience that atmosphere. Um so those will be those will be some of our biggest tailgates in years. I mean, we're expecting a few thousand people at each one. Um and uh we're gonna try and just make them some huge parties for US fans that travel in. So um in addition to those those local watch parties, we are focusing on LA and Seattle as well to and then beyond wherever wherever the US goes after that um to try and make those really really fun, memorable events because this is like you said, a once-in-a-lifetime thing to um or maybe a once-in-a-couple generation thing to host a couple decades, I should say. Hopefully not a couple generations, a couple decades to to host a World Cup on home soil and uh to be able to have something that's this organized and uh you know FIFA has made it a little difficult to to get close to stadium, so we're doing our best to work around that and uh get as many people to stop by tailgates and and have the most fun that we can.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Well, I would encourage all of our listeners to get involved any way you could with American Outlaws. It's it's a great time and they do provide a very welcoming environment, as Trevin mentioned. So I definitely would co-sign all of that. Why don't we dive in a little bit into the officially announced World Cup roster? We have our 26-man squad. There was a leak which took place last weekend, which Brandon and I, my co-host, actually reacted to because there were some pretty trustworthy reporters out there that had said this is the squad. So we gave our initial reactions to that. I would be interested to hear what you thought of Pachettino's 26-man squad.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, I think I think for the most part it is who we thought was going to be on it. You know, there's there's the usual suspects, and then uh, I mean, the person that you just feel for is Diego Luna, right? That's the one who I think everybody has sort of been like, holy cow. Uh just he's been such a huge part of the marketing and the buildup.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

And in fact, like, this program I stuck my hand up and guaranteed he would be on the squad because of how much he was involved in the marketing. I don't blame you.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

I think I think most people did. So I I really feel for that for him. Um I he seems like the type of guy who is is gonna use this as motivation to make sure as hell that he's gonna be on the next roster. Uh which, you know, i is no small consolation. But um so I think for the most part it is who we thought, and um it's a pretty exciting group for the most part. A lot of those guys were in Qatar in 2022. So, you know, the good the good side is that you hope that they remember what it was like to get knocked out, and they remember what it was like to have to leave a World Cup, and that they that they use that as some motivation to really um propel themselves further this year, or uh they dig in more and and they have the you know, you're not the the lights the lights not too bright this time. Um yeah, I think I think for the most part it's it's a good roster, it's a solid roster. Like I said, it is a lot of who you thought was gonna be on there, with the exception of Luna. I know some people wanted Gozo. That would have been kind of a fun, a fun inclusion, I think. A little a little unknown for a lot of a lot of nations probably haven't scouted him. So that'd have been kind of a fun one.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, I think I I agree. I initially came on here, and I think I was guilty of this, and a lot of other outlets were as well, is you spend a lot of time talking about what they got wrong, and it was just a few things. It was maybe the Diego Luna exclusion, maybe the fact that Tanner Tessman wasn't a part of the squad, and we seem to be a bit light in the deeper parts of midfield. But then you you zoom out a bit and you just kind of look at what you just talked about, where a lot of the core of this group is the same as the last World Cup. And that's what's most important. If those guys that are the backbone of the team come and play their best football, I think we'll have a really good chance of being successful. And I think I don't want to get lost in the negatives when there's still a a lot more positives that we have in our direction.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

For sure. And I think that um when the roster was released, it was one of those moments that because we we do so much work in this build-up to the World Cup where I was like, oh my god, it's actually happening. Like it's it's it's here. So I got I got pretty excited. Uh so my my initial reaction was just overwhelmingly positive because I was like, oh my god, yeah, it's finally happening. And then I started to look and be like, wait a minute, there's no like Yiggler's actually not on this one.

unknown 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Testman's not on this one too.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah, I I I'm a little concerned about uh, like you said, those those deeper defensive midfielding issues. Like if Tyler Adams gets hurt, we we might be in a little bit of a pickle. Uh to put it to put it mildly.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

There's like two guys we need to really bubble wrap, and I would say it's Tyler Adams and Chris Richards because just the the drop-off after them is what scares me.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Uh yeah. Yeah. That's a little concerning, but uh, you know there's only so much I can control. So I'm just gonna just gonna hope that Tyler Adams has tournament of his life and uh that every every step he takes is on a soft pillow.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

And you mentioned these guys having that feeling of what it feels like to exit a World Cup, and maybe that gives them not only just the experience of how a World Cup runs and what a group stage looks like, and then when you get into the knockout rounds, just how important those moments are. So hopefully they've learned from that. But also there's a sense of a lot of these guys on the team are East Coast guys. We actually have just right around our Philadelphia area, we have Christian Pulisic and Mark McKenzie, Tyler Adams is from New York, Austin Trusty, Brendan Aronson, a lot of guys in that East Coast. I can only imagine how much they want to get back to this side of the country as well, so that a lot more of their friends and family can also see them play.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Uh-huh. That's that's a great point. Um, I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, when you when you were watching the roster reveal, it's like every other guy is from like New York, New Jersey, or Philly or Pennsylvania area. It was shocking.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

I was like, we're we don't go that far west. It's really Texas, and there's a couple, but it's it's really East Coast laden.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

No, that's that's some good motivation. I hadn't thought about that.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Just something for the bulletin board, maybe. What are your general vibes now of the team? I know this build-up, this has been billed as the golden generation of US soccer. And I I think 2022 was a necessary step getting out of the group, which wasn't an easy group to get out of, and gaining that experience is something to build off of, but now it just adds to the pressure of this World Cup, and playing host obviously does as well. So now that we're basically here, it is the team what you thought it would be? Have the guys made the strides over the last four years that you were expecting? What are your kind of thoughts on just how this group currently stands?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

I think yes and no, if that if I can explain. Um like yes, in the sense that they like like you were saying, they've got that experience of getting out of a group in a World Cup. That's no small experience to be carrying with you. Um, you know, before that they didn't have that. And uh to know that you can go up against these teams, get pinned against a wall, play for 90 minutes, these really stressful situations where the the world is watching you. And and we're gonna need every ounce of that in this group. This is also a tough group to get out of. Um, that's it's gonna be a lot of probably breaking a bunker in a couple cases. You know, Australia is always incredibly physical. I think our guys having experience playing in in in different leagues in Europe is gonna be incredibly valuable with that. You know, Turkey is gonna be a huge challenge as well. Um and and not to mention Paraguay, Paraguay is also pretty good. We we have a little bit of an advantage in the sense that well, we saw Australia too, but having played Paraguay in in your neck of the woods, um so there's there's there's that experience that they have that they carry with them that I think is really gonna help them. But then I think no because there there's still so much inconsistency. Some of it has been, you know, the tinkering with the lineups, tinkering with formation, which is it's every coach is right. Um but the difference between the teams that we saw sort of in the end of last year against Uruguay and Uruguay, and then this year against Belgium and Portugal, it's it's you know, I understand there's a lot of anxiety around that sort of whiplash of going like feeling feeling like, oh my god, we we got this figured out, like it's we got a lot of momentum going into 2026, and then having it sort of hit a brick wall was uh was a little jarring for a lot of people, I think. Um for sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah, anxiety's definitely heightened at this point, I would say. And I think everything is just amplified because even if you're hopeful, there's still an anxiousness that comes with that.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah, yeah, there's there's definitely some anxiousness.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

I only have one final question for you. I guess it'll make it a two-parter, but in a dream hypothetical scenario, the United States reaches the semifinal. We're here on U.S. soil, soccer's at a fever pitch, it's at an all-time high in terms of interest in the general population here. Who would you like to see the United States face in the semifinal and the final? Not only in terms of just theater, but what you think would be best for the future of the sport.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

I mean, yeah, if if we're I I'm gonna interpret this as just like not trying to figure out the math of like who gets out where and who advances. No, we're not doing the math. Yeah, it's too much. Yeah, yeah. I I would love to have that off the top of my head, but I would I I would be losing a lot of sleep at night if I was doing that. No one could accurately do that, so the the semifinal, I think it would be so fascinating if it was a country like England or Mexico. Like sort of these these countries that we have rivalries that we have a little chip on our shoulder against. Like I think if you're gonna get your average everyday person who doesn't watch soccer to pay attention, like those are two in the semifinal, they'd be like, ooh, like US and Excel. That'll be a fun number, you know, final four, so to speak, or England to sort of because it would just be so gratifying with how there is a little bit of banter and rivalry between US and English fans as to beat them at their own game, essentially. And uh we are still undefeated against the England in the World Cup.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

So that is that's that's a good point. And also I had the same exact answer. I had England first and then Mexico, Mexico because of the obvious rivalry, and we we see them a lot in different competitions, and there's some real animosity there. But England, they they kind of little brother us in this sport. We we dominate a lot of other sports, but in this one they they have a sense that they're superior. So this would be the perfect opportunity to meet them when they still haven't brought one of these home to just get one over. It would be great.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

That would be the all-time catharsis game if we could do that. But correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

It would relieve a lot. So what about in the final?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I think in the final you have to sort of hope for one of the one of the big boys. Um you know, as much fun as I think it would be if it was against someone like Morocco or um a country that sort of scraps scraps its way there and is you know, it's two underdogs playing each other. I would really love it if it was someone like Argentina or Brazil or France or uh that that way people can't say like, oh well, you you got lucky, you know, you face Morocco, you face Croatia. Um it would be it would just validate everything that that we've built with AO and validate, you know, all this fandom. Have have being able I mean, we're lucky in the sense that we've been able to see that on the women's side, right? Where they're so dominant that they win so much. Uh but to really put that on the men's game would just be so cool to see them play again a final against France and and win. Like if we're talking hypothetical dream scenario, even you know, Brazil, Argentina would just be so cool. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

I was right with you. I had Brazil as the number one, just because it feels like that's when you think of World Cups, I think you think of Brazil first. At least a lot of people do. They've won the most. They have those iconic yellow jerseys, the legends that have played for them, the flair which they play. I think that would be my number one answer, but I I'm right there with you. It has to be a big fish. We we want, in order to be the best, you want to beat the best. I don't want anybody saying, like you said, that it was a Mickey Mouse or some sort of I don't want any, I don't want any aspects. I want I want a firm we won the World Cup on home soil, we beat the best teams.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, yeah, man. That's oh, it's a dream. That'd be nice.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Why don't we end we we can end it there on a real high note? Trevor Burrus, thank you very much for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I appreciate it. Listeners, thank you for tuning in, and until next time, take care.