Ep. 22 - Semifinals Breakdown & World Cup Final Preview

Brandon and Shaun get together to talk through the two World Cup semifinals from this week, which featured an impressive Spain win over France and a heartbreaking collapse for England against Messi and Argentina.

The two get into the ins and outs of the games, what players impressed, why the two winning sides are so successful and what the losers can take from this World Cup. 

Finally, they preview the much anticipated World Cup Final set for Sunday in New Jersey. This includes what we expect the match to look like and predictions for the outcome. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Hello, friends, and welcome to episode 22 of the Friends on Football Podcast. I'm one of your co-hosts, Brandon Johnson, and I'm here as always with my main man, Mr. Sean Boyle. Sean, how are you feeling?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Brandon, I'm doing well. I really enjoyed watching these semifinals. We tried our best not to text each other and talk about them and potentially spoil anything for the podcast. So we've saved it all for the listeners. I'm excited. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I'm great, Sean. I feel like this is really going to be a good one. You mentioned us not speaking, and that's true. The only text messages we have between each other was logistics on when to record. So this should be fresh. It'll be raw. And I'm very interested to see what you have to say about these games, Sean. So let's just let's just dive right in. I think we got a lot to talk about. Some some reviews of the games that just happened, and then the preview of the World Cup final this Sunday. So Sean, let's talk France Spain first. This game was on Tuesday afternoon. Spain wins 2-0. Sean, my initial reaction was Spain was dominant. Spain looked like they were one of the best, one of, if not the best team in the world. And they had no fear of France. They came in, they played the way they wanted to play, and it was a pretty simple game, honestly, in my opinion. Just initial thoughts. What did you think about this? This one.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Couldn't agree more. It was Spain being in complete control throughout basically the entire match. I would say it started off with both teams trying to find their footing a little bit, but Spain was doing more of the probing. And that eventually leads to that first penalty, which we could get into the specifics of how that came to be, but just a wild sequence there. And it's a well-taken penalty from a Yarzabal, and then all of a sudden it's just us kind of sitting there waiting for France to grow into the game, and that just never happened. At least not from what I saw. It was like you said, Spain were in control, they looked like the best team in the world. It's interesting because we talked about how I think I said this specific phrase on the preview podcast that based on the information I've seen, I have to give it to France. Based on how they played this tournament, I just thought that they looked like the best team. But it just goes to show you that there is one-game situations where anything can happen. And then there's also just different levels to this. And when you're the defending European champions and you are a team who knows that, and you're seemingly just building and building with the ultimate goal of your peak performance coming in the final, which is what it looks like this Spain side have done. They're playing their best football of the tournament right now. That France game was their most impressive. If you remember, the first game that Spain played, they drew Cape Verde. And there was a mild shitstorm. People freaked out. And then you fast forward to what we saw from Spain against France, who had looked like the best team the whole way up to that match. It was a stark contrast between those two. Spain have officially grown into the tournament. I still think you have to give them the billing of the best team in the tournament at this point. And Argentina, who we'll talk about later, is certainly going to be playing the underdog role in that final, which we'll get to. But the performance from Spain just could not have been more impressed with how professional it was. You just want to like golf clap them and say, well done. It was a masterclass.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Sean, I agree with you. And I think something that's not talked about enough is the Spain defense. Spain has given up one goal in this World Cup, and it was to Belgium. And they honestly uh haven't, in my opinion, really look like they've really been tested much. Their goalkeeper's solid, of course. He's made some great saves. He's also made some wacky moves, and and I think we'll talk about this in the preview. Argentina might have a chance to take advantage of that. It really hasn't burnt them at all, this World Cup. But Spain, we mentioned La Mina Mall, uh Oriarizabal, Danny Olmo, their attack is is definitely what's talked about in their midfield, but we haven't been giving credit, me personally, to their defense at all. I mean, Pedro Porro, our guy, Pedro Porro, scores the second goal. It's just it's just such a complete team, and like you said, they're peaking at the right time, and that's I think what makes it scary. We look back at this World Cup and we can joke and say Cape Verde honestly is has to be one of the best teams in the World Cup. Cape Verde tied Spain and lost to Argentina in extra time. The two teams that are playing in the final, they they competed to to the end with. But to talk about Spain, it's just there there looked to be no no fault in their game. It was such a complete 90-minute performance, open and shut. Once they went up one-nil, you would think, okay, maybe they'll sit back a little bit, France will get on the counter, France will start pressing. And it really wasn't. Spain just kept playing exactly how they wanted to play. And I think France, I don't know if there was a little bit of, hey, we kind of walked here, this was easy, we're just gonna make it through ourselves, but they just never turned it on. And to shut down Mbappe, Dembele, Sparkle, Dewey, I mean, the names go on and on. Turkey came on late, like the we could name 10 guys on France that that all should have had an impact, and none of them really did. So I think for Spain, moving forward, yes, two goals and the fluke penalty kick was it. I mean, it's definitely a penalty kick, but kind of a weird situation. Adrian Rabio, I don't know what he's thinking in that moment, but Sean, we gotta talk about defensively. I I just feel like there's no there's no holes in their game right now, and it's scary.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

I think why they're so impressive defensively is they defend with 11 players. And that might seem like an obvious point, but it's really not when you factor in Mbappe's defensive levels. He ups them for France. He I think he actually defends more and works harder out of possession than he does for Real Madrid and he has done at PSG in his career. He's notorious for taking plays off. Messi is often talked about how he walks out of possession, and he's always kind of the outlet ball for Argentina to play to spark a counterattack and things like that. But Spain defend with 11, and that high press that they're capable of doing, it makes you it makes it really hard to play out when they're pressing high, and they're able to do that. And then they showed in this game that okay, we have a lead, we're able to sit in a low block, and we're comfortable doing that as well. And you mentioned the goalkeeper Unay Simone. He does fly off his line quite a bit. He comes out with with kind of reckless abandon, and he might actually be Spain's third best goalkeeper, which is scary to think. I think he, in terms of what I've seen from the three of those guys, I would say he's probably the worst. And that's still pretty impressive because it's a good group. But David Raya and Joan Garcia are world-class keepers as well, and they're just waiting in the wings. So it is a complete team. Their work in possession helps them in defense as well. You can't score if you don't have the ball, and Spain usually do a good job of dominating possession when they need to. In this game, they did that to a certain extent until they were comfortable in the match, and then the numbers skewed France's way as they were chasing the game late. But yeah, let's get into that penalty. I believe it was Luca Dinier who actually gave away the penalty, but Rabio did give away a yellow card foul right on the edge of the box, which was almost a penalty. Both those guys, and they were near each other. Reckless, reckless incidents back to back. It was a situation where Kukarea overhits a cross, and Luca Dinier kind of heads it away, kind of heads it down to himself, and he's just blissfully unaware that Lominha Mall is next to him. LaMin Yu Mall, crafty little play, wins the ball with kind of his arm, kind of his body, and Luca Dinhe just kicks him in the thigh. It's an interesting choice. I I Luca Dinhe just lost his head for a second. It's an unfortunate penalty to give away because it does change the complexion of the game. But I can't really point to any examples of me feeling confident in how France looked in order to think that the game would have gone differently if that penalty hadn't been given away. And Brandon, I want to talk to you about the second goal because yes, the penalty from O'Yarthaball, great finish. Well done. You kind of expect him to do it. He's just kind of a silent assassin. But the second goal for Spain, it's lovely, lovely play. The second half, I mean, it's just France not being able to get out. Bayana has a shot that's blocked, it goes right back to him. He cycles it over to Rodri. Rodri plays in this lofted ball to Lamine. France headed away. Fabian Ruiz picks it up. Still, France can't get out. Ruiz cycles it over to Poro. Poro does a little wall pass with Danny Almo, who just one touch. Nobody picks up the run of Poro. It's a brilliant finish from Pedro, too. Maybe the right back of the tournament, a Tottenham hotspur legend at this point. I I love to see it. It was that was the kind of goal where you're just like, yep, there it is. They're the best team in this tournament. So I think that goal and the sequence leading up to it kind of sums up the whole match and kind of sums up how good Spain are at this point. You're right, Sean.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

They that relentless high press, I thought I've seen teams high press in leagues and on the club side, and they are usually decently successful. But once that high press gets broken, they are easy to break down because all of their players are in mismatched positions and you can easily counterattack on them. But that just didn't show up at all for France. And maybe, maybe Unay Simone playing off his line so much probably helps in that sense a little bit. You you block off that over-the-top kind of uh release ball because he can he can clean those up as almost like a sweeper keeper. But yeah, this the second goal I think was a great microcosm for the whole game because it just showed Spain is relentless, they're gonna keep coming, they're gonna keep coming, and it's a player who scores the goal who Pedro Porro. I I mean, look, we've seen it, Sean. We've seen it in Tottenham. He he's got bangers in his locker, but they don't always come out. And if you look, if you had to pick a player on Spain to give up a goal to, he's probably towards the bottom of the list. You don't expect him to score compared to all the other players on the field. But but still, you have a player like that who can pull that out of his locker, it's like Jesus. So yeah, they are flying right now, Sean. And I mean, even even after this goal, there were I feel like uh France had a few half chances, yeah, a couple nervy moments, but but really nothing solid. It was just such a complete, and I keep saying that, such a complete 90-minute performance, and to to win the World Cup and they're gonna have to do it again on Sunday. But I think if they can put together a 90-minute shift like this, it's gonna be hard for Argentina for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

And we can get into like how we think things will play out on paper, yeah. But on paper, it's hard to envision if Spain plays anything close to their A game. It's hard to envision Argentina being better than them, especially when you use the phrase for 90 minutes. If Spain do that, I do think they would win the World Cup, but I don't necessarily know that there's some magic working against them. There could be. So we'll get into that. But just some takeaways from Spain, Brandon. I think you touched on with Pedro Porro. We've seen it at Tottenham, and he he was in the middle of a shitstorm last season, and he was kind of one guiding light throughout where he was he's always there, he's Mr. Consistent for Tottenham. He he has grown so much as a defender, that was always a knock on him because he kind of played as a right midfielder at Sporting Lisbon, where he he comes from. And there was a big shift when he had to play in a back four in the Premier League, and he it took a lot of learning and developing, but now he's playing in that same back four for Spain, and he's he's gotten so much better out of possession, he's good at blocking crosses, he's lethal in attack because he could pick a pass and he could get on the end of goals as we're seeing now. That's his second international goal, second of this tournament. It's it's good stuff. He wasn't even the nailed on starter at right back heading into the tournament. That was Marcos Urente. He's overtaken him. So I think he's been great. The guy who I don't think we've given enough credit to, he's gotten it throughout his career, but he since his injury, he he was not the same player to my eye, and that's Rodri. He won Ballin d'Or. I don't think it was that controversially. I think he was the best player in the world. It does usually go to an attacking player. Vinny has a right to be upset, but Rodri was unbelievable that whole year. And then he suffers an ACL injury, and he he kind of came back and then got hurt again and took some longer time to get back. But I think one of the reasons why Spain are so difficult to break down even when they lose the ball in those quick transitions, he's just always in the right spot. He is unbelievable as a midfielder. He's able to break up play, he's able to dictate with tempo, he's able to play long passes, he's just world class at everything you need. And having him operate at such a high level, I think that's why Spain's midfield ticks the way it does. Another thing I noticed from this game, it might not have resulted in a goal yet, but I would say this is the best we've seen from Will Minimum all. I think we're starting to see more and more the last two matches, him continuously take on his guy 1v1. He's drawing double teams and he's playing through those. He had a goal that we'll get to in the player pool standings. Shoulder offside criminal. I don't get an assist for some reason, even though he wins the penalty. A joke. It was it was it was a really good Laminha mall performance as well. So I just want to get your thoughts on those guys, but as we kind of sing Spain's praises before we talk about France.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Sean, you know I love you know I love a defensive mid a midfielder, defensive midfielder, number six. That's my spot. And Rodri plays that spot so brilliantly, and he does it in such a way where we have a conversation like this, and he's not the first name we bring up. Yeah. And I think there's almost a plus in that. He just is always there, he's always in the right spot, he's always making the right plays, the right passes, and it frees up everybody else. I think everyone else becomes a little bit more comfortable because they can make that extra run, they can make that line breaking run, an attacking midfielder. Hey, I can stay up a little higher because he's got my back. And I think it's almost one of those positions where it's thankless. Like you don't even really realize it. He's not going to be in the stat sheet a ton, of course. Touches and passes, but not he's not gonna score many goals. He's probably not gonna have the assist because they don't count the hockey assists. But I think like hot if you counted hockey assists, he would he would be up there, the pass to the pass. And I think it's such a beautiful option for Spain to have that, and to have him sitting in there and to have him fully healthy, like you said. The Ballon Dorier, I I know people are gonna hate and say whatever they want to say. Sean, this man was world class, like to to even be in the conversation as a defensive midfielder, you have to be ridiculous, and he was that plus more. And it for me, it was a no-brainer. I know Vinny, that's my guy, but no, I'm sorry, Vinny, you're gonna have to do it again because his Roger's year that year was absolutely absurd. So I think full credit to him. And I'm glad you brought up Lamine in the second part because I was gonna ask you about him. Sean, he he's almost there, and I know I know we've been oh, he's close, he's not healthy, he's not healthy. He looked good, he looked really good in the the previous match, but also in this match, I know we talk we'll talk, we'll talk about the offside goal that he had. Um, but he just there's just something about him when he gets the ball. I don't know if it's because the defense is so attracted to him that everything else just opens up for his teammates, or it's just like I feel like when he's on the ball, you don't know what's gonna happen in such a positive way. He's always gonna give you something, he's gonna get at the defense, he's gonna make them make a great play. And look, sometimes the defenders will make great plays, other times defenders will give up penalty kicks and fouls. So having him on the wing and and almost, I would say, back to full strength is gonna be dangerous for Spain moving forward in in the final and and even for years to come because he's so young, he's so much talent, and I think you're really looking at the next guy, if you want to call it, in your mall. So I'm excited to see him play on Sunday. Uh, it'll be the first time the lights are this bright for him, because I feel like he's now kind of the guy for Spain, even though he hasn't been performing at this level. The Euro 2024 was kind of his coming out party, and now it's kind of like his I'm here moment. So I'm excited to see if he has that signature moment in the final.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah, you could not script a more juicy, better to watch if you want to sell product for this final. There's so many storylines, and that's the best one for me. It's the La Mina Mall, Leo Messi, the iconic photo of the two, which we'll get into. But yeah, it's just it's eerie how similar those two guys are in terms of the club they play at, the way they play. You watch highlights from both of them, and you see so many similar aspects of them just trying to get on their left foot and being so difficult to predict what they're gonna do next, but yet somehow still having the awareness and knowledge to play within their teammates that their teammates know what they're gonna do, because it's one thing to be unpredictable, but you can't be unpredictable to everybody on the pitch. You just need to make the other team second guess themselves. And I think that's a balance that Messi has struck so well at both club level, everywhere he's been, and at international level with Argentina, and that's something Lamin needs to continue to develop. But Spain, Brandon, just as we move off, I just have a couple of like a couple of things that we just have to touch on with Spain because they deserve their flowers. They are incredibly good. So when Lamenium all starts, they have won 18 matches and drawn six. They have never lost. So when Lamin starts, Spain don't lose. They have not lost a competitive match since March of 2023. They lost to none other than our friends, the Tartan Army, Scotland, was the last team to beat Spain in Euro 2024 qualifiers. So pretty incredible. Now that is caveatted. We do have to caveat it. Portugal did beat them in the Nations League final, but that went to extra time and then a penalty shootout. That does not count for their 38 match unbeaten streak, which is tied for right now, the longest ever in international history with Italy. So they're both at 37 or 38. I think it's 37, I'm not sure, but they're tied with Italy. This final World Cup game could be the one that gets them over the hump and breaks that record. Luis De La Fuente, since he's taken over, the guy has just been incredible. We talked about how he managed the U-19 program for a long period of time. Started there in 2013 until 2019, then he moved up to the U-21s, eventually took over the U-23s, and now he's had the head job. He has won 36 times, he's drawn 10, and he's lost twice. So he has an incredible feel for this group. He has them playing incredible football, and everything is poised to make up one of the best finals ever, which we're coming off the back of one of the best finals ever in 2022. This one has been a great tournament, so you almost don't care where you get in the final, but it promises to be yet another good game, and Spain are just a huge reason why.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Wow, that's some crazy, crazy facts there. Uh, just a funny caveat. Now I wonder who Italians are gonna cheer for. And then the reason I say that is because they probably don't want to lose the streak, the longest unbeaten streak. But if Argentina wins, it'll be their fourth World Cup and Italy has four world cups. So it'll be tied with Italy. So I I would imagine Italians would probably say we'll take Spain, but uh just an interesting little caveat. I and I appreciate those stats, Sean, because uh I just feel like we're not we're not appreciating what we have in front of us. I I know I think if Lamine had a better tournament, they would probably have more attention, more credit, more love. But I feel like everyone's just been France, Argentina, and England. And Spain just kind of said, Alright, we hear you, but we're just gonna sneak in and do our thing. So, yeah, a lot to talk about there, Sean. I do want to switch gears now. We gotta talk about the other the other semifinal England and Argentina. Sean's immediate takeaway was in in my opinion, was England England fumbled this one. They played what 60 minutes of great soccer and then 30 minutes of let's just sit back and pray. And we know, Sean, Argentina has done this the whole entire tournament. This is no surprise. It's not like Argentina's been beating teams 6 and 7-0, and it's easy, they're just walking to this. Every single game I feel like they've played, they've had to come back late. And England, same, it was the same exact story. I felt like I was watching a rerun of a different game, Sean, because it's the same thing over and over and over again. And for me, England lost this more than Argentina won this. But I'm interested to hear what you got to say about that.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

It's so it's so tough. I think I have to issue a hand up. You were the one who picked England to win, Brandon. But I said Thomas Tuchel was one of the best in-game manager tacticians in this World Cup. I thought he was gonna be a bright spot for England, and it was just more of the same. This reeked of a Gareth Southgate side. I would agree with the gist of what you said. I didn't think England were brilliant by any means in this game, but I thought they were up for the fight. In the first minute and a half, yes, one minute and 30 seconds, I counted three late challenges from Argentina after the whistle with the intent of pissing England off, just trying to get under their skin. That's page one of the Argentinian. Rulebook that's intro to dark arts, lesson one. Start early. You know what I mean? Come early, come often. And boy, boy, right out of the gate, just trying to get under Jude's skin. I thought England actually responded to that well. I don't think they lost their heads really. I thought they kept their composure. They were probably instructed by that great guy, Thomas Tuchel. Hey, this is what Argentina are trying to do. Don't fall for it. And England didn't. The first half, they were up for the fight. They were in the game. They had the better of it, I would say. I think they were the better side. They score a goal. And it's a really good goal. It starts with Harry Kane dropping deep. Big switch. Taglifico botches the clearance. Morgan Rogers plays across to Anthony Gordon, who not Hue Molina, I'm not sure what he was doing. Back post defending. He he turned and saw Anthony Gordon and then went and watched the ball. He turned his head to watch the ball and somehow completely forgot that Anthony Gordon was there and was almost stunned to see him arrive behind him and score. He was like, whose guy was that? Well, it was yours. So that was tough. As someone who's I I should tell the listeners, I'm sitting here in a Christian Romero Tottenham jersey and an Argentina scarf. So I'm all in on my boys. I'm so happy we won this game. I I'll take citizenship if they're off.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

We we is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

We is not crazy. You know. I believe I bleed the Alba Celeste blue of an Argentinian. I will be saying we from here on out.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

I have to I have to stop you there because you picked Brazil to win the World Cup. Argentina's biggest rival.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I also said, what did I say? I picked Brazil. Who do they say I would like to see win? Brazil or because of their passion. Because of their passion. I I'm addicted to it. Sorry. I and you know what? The United States, we stink. So I'm full messy Argentina. I don't care. I have no shame. My Tottenham boys are out there playing for these guys. Marcos Sanesi. He doesn't play, but he's a Tottenham guy. Christian Romero, one of my favorite Tottenham players ever. His name's on my back. I'll be rooting for Argentina in the final. Needless to say. But but no, Brandon, you're 100% right in terms of how this game went because England, they get the goal, and then from the moment they scored that goal, they lost the match. Their mentality could not have been worse. They basically, I don't hate the tactic of, oh shit, put defenders on, defend your, defend like your life depends on it for the last 10-15 minutes. Sometimes you have to do that. You know what I mean? You might be out of energy. There might be a various multitude of reasons that you resort to just kicking it deep, getting rid of the ball, defending all out, back five, whatever. You can't do that for 45 minutes against Leon Messi, who's the best player of all time to ever walk this earth. And the skill of Argentina is going to come out eventually. So I thought England, they they switch to the back five, they bring on the defensive subs. And at first, the first five, 10 minutes of it, Argentina are getting more of the possession because England are dropping so deep, but it's it's broken up a little bit. Argentina are having a hard time figuring their footing out. Well, the issue is you went too early. So they're able to take 10 to 15 minutes to find their footing and then still have plenty of time to not just score one, but to score two to beat you in regulation because you went to those tactics way too early. I thought that was a huge miss from Tuchel. I thought the mentality of the English players was decent. They were up for the fight. Like I said, they didn't fall into the Argentinians' traps. I thought this one was kind of down to the manager and how the team set up. And then ultimately, if we talk about match winners in Harry Kane and Jude Bellingham, they didn't even have a chance to be match winners. They couldn't get on the ball in the whole second half of the game. The real match winner, I mean, both both goals come from him. One really comes from Enzo Fernandez. Messi didn't do much heavy lifting in that. But it was a great strike from Enzo. And then fast forward, just a few more minutes, and Messi plays one with his right foot onto the head of Lotaro Martinez, who thunders it past Jordan Pickford and Argentina. It was absolute scenes in that stadium, Brandon. So I do agree, England, I don't think they had anything to be ashamed of until they scored a goal, and it was all downhill from there.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah, Sean, I I was taking notes watching the game. About three minutes later, I don't remember who it was for Argentina, but they were in on a essentially a breakaway. And Jed Spence makes this great sliding tackle in the box, basically saves a goal, gives up the corner kick. And at that point, yeah, I thought that was.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

I believe that was Simeone, who I just wanted to mention quickly. He started this match, his first minutes of the World Cup. He his son his father is the coach of Atletico Madrid. He is he's on page two of the Dark Arts handbook. He had six fouls in the first half, an absolute shithouser, whose one role was to go in there and cause havoc. And boy, did he do just that. So keep going, but I just wanted to point that out.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, it was funny. I have him in my notes too. I was like, why are they starting him? But then I realized very quickly why he was starting. But after that moment, Sean, so England gives up the corner kick off of that. I feel like right then was the peak for England, and then it just quickly went downhill. Uh Argentina starts to, like you said, feel it out, feel it out, feel it out. We get the water break. England makes subs. And then you're like, all right, England's gonna sit back. And at this point, there's still 25 minutes left in the game, 20, 25 minutes left in the game, and you're like, we can't you can't be in a deep, deep, deep low block with maybe just Harry Kane or just Jude as the outlet. You need a couple of you have to still play. My thing is, and look, neither of us are world-class managers, we're not managing anybody. I I've managed middle schoolers, and our our record wasn't great, so clearly I have some work to do on the coaching front. But Sean, we can't sit back. Like, you just gotta keep going, and why not go and get a second and then sit back when it's 75-80, and it's like, all right, they gotta score three times to beat us in 10 minutes, which don't put it past Argentina, they probably could do it. But Sean, come on, man. Like, I just feel like they went into such a defensive mindset so quickly that it just it absolutely changed everything about the game. And Argentina brings on their attackers, England brings on their defenders, and I'm sorry, but attacking is always gonna win in this in the way that it's set up for this. England was never going to score another goal. So Argentina had no problem putting eight attackers in. Cuti Romero is up there trying to win headers as a number nine. Like it it's we've seen the story over and over and over again. Like, why are we still seeing the same story, Sean?

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Courage the cowardly lion, Brandon. That's what this is. If England just died fighting, I think of course you would hear the people like for example, if Tuchel's first changes are to bring on Marcus Rashford and Bakayo Saka and say, okay, we're going after that second goal, and we're gonna put the game away, like you said. If those were the changes and England come back because England are a little bit overexposed and they have too many attackers on the pitch or they're not being prudent enough defensively, at least I think there's a sense of pride that comes with that because you're being brave. You're trying to be the aggressor, you're trying to dictate how the rest of that game goes. What comes with losing in the manner that they did is just feeling like you were soft and you were full of just, oh, we're we're the worst team. We need to hang on. You were full of just no conviction or belief in yourselves. You completely just passed the buck over to Argentina and said, come beat us if you can. And guess what? When you do that against high-level players, they're going to beat you if you give them that long with that many opportunities on the ball. I mean, they're letting Messi put in crosses from the most dangerous areas to put in crosses for 25 minutes of this match. How'd you think that was going to go? You know what I mean? Like anybody can see that. You don't need to be a world-class tactician. You you just you just know that that's what happens. Between England's opening goal and Argentina, Argentina's equalizer, England had 12% possession. 12% between their opening goal and Argentina's equalizer, they possess the ball for 12% of the time. Simply not good enough. Touches in the opponent's box. I think Argentina had 28 and England had seven. It was just a complete mail it in too early. And like I said, I don't hate the idea of sitting back and trying to see out a game. You can't do it for a whole half. You can't do it for 30 minutes, and you can't do it against Leo Messi. I think if they went to those tactics later in the game, it's a different result. I also agree having Harry Kane is like the outlet ball. He's got no legs. What like of course that's not going to work. So they couldn't get out at all. It was crazy. And I think we should celebrate, too, just how full of magic and also kind of great, but also kind of not good this Argentina team is. Because for so many different parts of a match, they look like so many different things. But the one thing that remains true is they just find ways to win and they're never dead until you kill them that 10th time. I said you could kill them nine times, they'll beat you on the tenth. You have to kill them and let them sit and then kill them again and kill them again. Because we know we we all knew that Argentina had to come back in them in that match. It was just a matter of whether they would be able to get the second before the bell rang or if they were gonna go to extra time and have to do it then. But England didn't have a foot in the game for the whole second half.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

You're totally, totally right, Sean. And in a weird way, it probably would have benefited England more to score that goal late. Almost like almost like a walk-off where it's like, hey, score, all right, game over, bye, gotta go. Like any time when the clock was going to be dangerous, but to score in the 54th and still have essentially 40 minutes, fine, still fine, but but don't sit in that shell. Like you you can't sit in the shell and just say, Hey, come at us, because they're going to come at you. And when you have literally the best player of all time playing against you, and yes, he's not at his peak, but he's still a top five player in the world. And and then you don't really press him when he gets the ball. He's just playing in crosses, he's dribbling, he's orchestrating the whole thing. Hey, how about somebody put him on his ass? Foul him a couple times. And look, you're gonna get a yellow card, you're gonna get pushed by every player on the other team, they're gonna be in the ref's face trying to telling you to get sent off or whatever. But hey, like put a guy on his ass one time and say, Hey, all right, now come beat us.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yeah, yeah, that's what Argentina did. And and you know, to your point, there was a yellow card on Elliot Anderson in the first half. The entire Argentina side was on Elliot Anderson and the referee in.2 seconds because that's how they run for this guy. He is their god. That's what people don't realize. I talk about the culture and the magic of Argentina and why I root for them and why I like them. Yes, there's some Tottenham guys on the team. Yes, I love the culture and everything. That is special. And maybe I'm crazy for liking that part and that element of soccer where it's a little bit dirty and it's not the beautiful game, and there's some dark arts involved, and too much of that can be a bad thing and it could ruin a match. But just the right amount gives you such a unique competitive advantage. And Argentina, in these last two World Cups, have found the exact right amount of that balance between knowing when to press those buttons and get under people's skin, knowing how to commit 13 fouls and a half and not get a yellow card, because you know the line between just enough and excessive, and they have mastered that so well. Now, listen here. Am I gonna guarantee you with 100% certainty that Kuti Romero doesn't lose his head in the first half and get a red in the final? Of course not. Never gonna do such a thing. I've seen some things with these with these boys, but I'll tell you this when it when they get it right, it's perfect, and it's so fun to watch because they have the magic of Messi, a mix of the dark arts and that grit that you admire in American sports and American football, and then beauty on the other end and just pure passion throughout. Their fans are amazing. It creates it makes every game they play feel like a big game. And maybe that's because of Messi, but I think it's a credit to the rest of Argentina as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah, you bring up good points, and I agree with you. I think the one part that I think makes my head spin a little bit about all this is they're actually a very good team. I feel like we've always attributed dark arts to teams who are just uh maybe not as skilled. The USAs of the world who are usually getting battered and bruised and beaten around. These guys are world-class players on world-class teams, screaming and crying and whining to referees, trying to get yellow cards on the opponents, and then laying in these tackles that are borderline yellow cards all day long. Like, I think for me, the weird part is it's like, hey, just go beat them. You're you're actually just better. Not maybe not than England, but you're better than 95% of teams in the world. Like, why don't you just use your skill and beat them?

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Honestly, it's a good point. And I think they're actually this might sound crazy. I think there might be a little bit of their brain chemistry that is kind of predicated on enjoying that. Enjoying the moment being bigger, and okay, why are we gonna show up now? We know we will win this game late. They have a self-belief in that and in Messi, and they also have this, I think it's like this thing where they feel like they need to make the game that kind of brand, that ugliness. They need to bring that kind of competitiveness to the game, or else they're not being Argentinian because it's been so steeped in their culture. Like, this is just how they've played for generations. This isn't new, this isn't a new Argentina team. They've just found the balance now of doing it within reason and keeping it away from those bad red cards that can really kill you. And when you have a generational player like a Maradona or a Messi, that's when you see the combination of that brilliance that comes in the dark arts mixed with the brilliance that they have actually in ball playing and ability, and it creates these special teams that we're seeing. But it's a good point because boy, would it wouldn't it just be nice if you're an Argentina fan to just come out one match and win 4-0 with no fuss about it. Just, you know, we took care of business today, nobody really got heated. We didn't rely on Messi too much. He was just kind of out there. We subbed him off actually in the 65th because we're up to. You just don't have that. It's always it's always extremes with Argentina.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yeah, it's so weird to me, Sean, because the skill is there.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

I have a couple quick notes kind of similar to Spain I have for Argentina. I just want to give Lionel Scaloni. There's not only one Lionel running the show here. Lionel Scalone, the manager is unbelievable. And I don't know if he's doing anything or everything, but it's crazy to me because there's a lot of hotheads in that team. A lot. And he's keeping them all rowing in the right direction. There's never any internal rifts, and so much of that credit has to go to Messi as well because of the reverence they have for him. But it's also up to the manager as well. He took over in 2018, Brandon. Since then, he has won 76 matches with 18 draws and nine losses. So in 103 matches, he's lost nine times. Not bad. He has won the 2021 and 2024 Copa Americas, the 2022 World Cup. Oh, and he's playing in the 2026 World Cup final. Sorry, he's managing it. But that's what he's done so far since taking over Argentina. The way the guys respond and listen to him, and he's very composed on the touchline, you'll see a goal go in, and he's almost doing like a stoic, like, how is this guy human? And then you see him get like a bit emotional for a second, but he seems very within balance, and you hear him talk in press conferences, he's very well reasoned. I'm just a big fan of his. I'm interested if he'll ever try managing a club out and how that would go for him. But honestly, just his composure and his, I mean, his track record as a manager speaks for itself. So I just wanted to make sure we shouted him out too, because boy oh boy, these two managers are such a big part of what's happening in Spain and Argentina, and it's sure to make just an interesting final.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Yeah. Sean, now with with Scaloni, he goes and wins the World Cup on Sunday. That's two World Cups and two chances, basically. Does he ride off into the sunset and he's good forever? Does he? I mean, if he wants to come back, obviously that door cannot be closed. He he can do whatever he wants, but there's a bit where it's like, why not just stay and hang out and do this again in four years? I'm sure club teams will call, I'm sure big suitors will come and throw money and everything. But you're a nation hero at this point. You've won two world cups in two.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Like, yeah, I'll tell you this, he never pays for a cerveza again. That's fair. No, that's for sure. I mean, no matter where he goes in Argentina, he is welcome. So you're right. What more is there to do? I I don't know. I think he'd probably keep the job. I I I guess I we always talk about how Argentinians care more about playing for their country than their club. I guess managers might be the same way, they care more about managing it than any club. So I I that's interesting, but yeah, Brandon, it's a good question, and I'll certainly be interested in following him no matter what he's doing, because he's an interesting guy, and the track record, the resume that he's building, it's second to not many. So really impressive stuff. And he's still young too, so it's really, really cool. Brandon, did you want to just quickly eulogize France and England? Should we should we talk about maybe both of the losers and just well, I'll ask you the question. Do you think what do you think France should feel after this World Cup? Where they were the best team throughout much of the tournament, but then they met another really great team and they kind of went away without a whimper. So I want to get your thoughts on just how you kind of take away things for France.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Yeah, when I saw when these notes were added to our podcast document, and the first word I wrote down was confused, confused. I I I don't really know how they feel. I don't know how they should feel. I think to have such a great tournament to then basically bottle it against Spain. Look, if they showed up and Spain beats them, fine. That's that's I mean, it's Spain. You just talked about their record, their history, their how they're tracking, how they've been in such form for the past four years, fine. But to just lay a goose egg and not really fight, it's weird. So I I think they'll probably feel that this tournament was probably a little bit of a failure. And that might be drastic to say, but when you have the team that France has, the attacking prowess and the manager Didier DeChamps, who's who's been there, who's who's done a lot for them. And to go out like that, I I think they're gonna feel very, very disappointed. Dude, should they? I I don't know, Sean. You're losing to a great team, yeah. But I think it's more just the manner they're gonna have a bad taste in their mouth with the manner in which they lost that game. So I think for them, they're gonna feel like it was a disappointment. I think I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

It's tough to say, like, oh, it's a full-blown failure because it was one game that was really bad, and it came at the worst time. But I do think when expectations are so high as they are, with the most talented team in the World Cup being France, that winning the World Cup is really the only acceptable thing for the fans. It's tough. So I do think disappointment's a word that comes to mind. I do think Didier Deschamps should be pretty proud of his accomplishments with the French national team. Obviously, he won the World Cup as a player and a captain. He also then won the World Cup as a manager with France. He's been there for a long time. He's done good things with that French program because we talked about pre-tournament, how the French always beat themselves with drama or something happens. And under Deschamps, that kind of hasn't been the case. They they kind of have figured that out. It seems like he does a really good job of gaining respect from the locker room and not a ton of outbreaks of any sort. We've seen Mbappe at club level, at PSG, at Real Madrid. There's a lot of noise that comes with him. But I'll tell you this: the Mbappe that we saw in America in this World Cup, an absolute delight. He was great with fans. I thought his post-match press conference was excellent. He just said we weren't good enough. He takes responsibility. He thought we just didn't play at a good enough level. And that's like a refreshing thing because you want to like a superstar like that, but then when you hear these reports of how difficult he could be every day and the things around him and stuff, it's kind of like, ugh, you know, he might be a little prickly. But when he's been under DeChamps, he's not only performed at his best, he's also been relatively pleasant, at least in what we see on the outside. So I do think Deschamps can leave a pretty pretty good lasting legacy with France, even if the last tournament he was the manager for isn't a sweeping success. Now, how about England? How about these guys? These are your boys, these are your boys. So I would like you to take the floor here.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Thank you, Sean. Still, still a little gutted from the loss, but no, I I think I honestly just think they're they're gonna feel like they're cursed. Like it sounds goofy, and obviously England's motto is football's coming home and it hasn't come home in 60 some years. And I just feel like the team will will feel like hard done by. They played a great tournament until the last 40 minutes. And kind of like France, like it's one game and whatever happens, happens. But I don't think they're gonna be as disappointed as France. But I do think there will be a lot of questions asked of the manager. I I just don't And it's bad because I've backed Tuchel and I think he's done a fantastic job. Look at look at our guy Jed Spence. I mean, Jed Spence is he during the club season, Sean, he wasn't starting at Spurs for much of the season. He only started because I think Destiny U Dogie got hurt at one point because newsflash Pedro Porros on the other side. So it's like we got a lot of outside backs. And Jed kind of came into his own and he gets his first England call-up, I believe, this past year. He's only been playing for this past year with them. And you're like, all right, that's cute. Like, nice call-up, enjoy it. And then he gets called up again, and he gets called up again, and he's named in the World Cup team. And you're like, all right, you know, they're gonna bring eight defenders or whatever. He's just one of them. And then he's starting some games and he's mixed in, and and he's had his moments that have not been great at this world cup. He'll tell you that. We'll tell you that. But the the match against Argentina, besides a few moments, he looked fantastic. And I think England has I think England has more to go off of moving forward, knowing that they have a guy like him. Harry, yeah, he'll be four years older next world cup. I don't know if he's gonna be what he is, but then you you learn that Jude Belling is a lion. Like Jude is locked in, he is the guy, and you can kind of say, hey, we're gonna build our team around him. So if you're England, yes, you're disappointed. I don't think you're as disappointed as France. I don't think it's as bad of a failure, but you're gonna feel like you should you should be playing in that final on Sunday as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

I'm glad you brought up Jed. I thought Sir Jed Spence was the best player in an England shirt against Argentina. That's how good of a job I think he did, genuinely. And there's a couple moments in this World Cup where maybe he didn't cover himself in glory, but he, I mean, damn, if I'm not proud of him. I love having him at Tottenham. I hate the rumors that teams are interested in kind of circling the waters. Everton are apparently interested. No thanks, Everton. Go pound sand. Jed's Jed's our boy. He he's gone through a lot just personally. He's been loaned out at Spurs, and he was signed by at the staff apparently when Antonio Conte was the manager. And Antonio Conte says publicly that was a club signing. He's not ready yet, and that has to take a toll on a guy who's just trying to break in at Tottenham. And now to see he's I think he's the first open Muslim player to represent England. He acquitted himself so well at this World Cup. I thought he was one of England's bright spots throughout most of it. And outside of Kane and Bellingham, there were it's not like England had a ton of bright spots. I thought Elliott Anderson was good, and there's certainly some guys here and there that had good performances, but standout stars and guys who really made a leap. You you mentioned Jed, or you mentioned Jude. Yeah. He even took another step forward, which is I mean, he's world class, but we kind of already knew he was world class. He's just doing it at a level to which he might be England's best ever player. But aside from that, Jed took a real step forward in this tournament. Proud of him, happy for him. Love to see that. It's the Tottenham Boys making all the noise, Brandon.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

That's all it is. We just we just need to put together come next month when all the boys get back together.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Stay healthy. You know, we're probably gonna sell Christian Romero, which is tough for my jersey that I'm wearing right now and the vibes because I'm a Romero truther. But no, it's the Tottenham Boys making all the noise. A Tottenham Hotspur player will be a World Cup champion. That's a Sean Boyle guarantee.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

So Sean Boyle guarantee, also a fact.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

But I need to get one win on the board, Brandon.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Sure, you can you can have that one, Sean.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

First to say it. First to say it, you know. But I think we should now we should set the stage with the next game in this World Cup. I just want to talk to you about this. What are we doing with this third place game? Why does it exist? Why, why? Who's asking for this?

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Sean, for one, my uncle Gianni loves to sell tickets and he loves to fill a stadium. So he will be doing that in Miami uh this Saturday night between England and France. I saw, just took a just took a glimpse. I'm not I have no plans to go to Miami this weekend. I'm gonna be a local guy here, but I said, hmm, if I were to venture down, how could I how much do I have to pay to get in? Lowest tickets were in the 900s, so uh he's gonna make his dollar. It's another dollar. I also saw Sean, the third place team gets a $30 million payout from FIFA, whereas the fourth place team, it's only $28 million. So really not that much of a difference, and that goes to the Federation. So how much trickles to the players all depends on their contracts and things like that. But so so from an actual business standpoint, yeah, FIFA's doing this because they can sell tickets and make money, and people love bronze medals, they want to see gold, silver, bronze. So so I get that part from a football part, Sean. And this is where I'll turn to you. What is this game gonna look like?

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Oh, I'll tell you what, I don't even think I'm gonna watch it. I I don't do losers' cups. You know what I mean? What is this? Who wants to be there? This is a hostage situation, Brandon. This is what we have here. We have a host. Damn it now. I mean, he's been getting pounded by this sun. These guys are pasty. They're a pasty bunch, and they're that they have to go back out to Miami, 100% humidity. Oh, I oh my god, it's brutal. I could not imagine. I don't know what it's gonna look like. I don't know why you would play your best players and risk them. They've had probably the longest season ever, some of these guys. Harry Kane's played a hundred games between Bayern Munich and the Champions League and in Bundesliga and the League Cup and now with England this whole summer. It's it's crazy to me that they're gonna put mileage more mileage on these guys unnecessarily. If you want to make the game interesting, how about fourth place gets zero dollars and third place gets 58 million? Now we're talking.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

I yes, but that's certainly exciting. So you know, just so you know, like Kate Verde and and Carousel, these teams that or not Kate Veraday, I'm sorry, teams that didn't even make it out of the group stage still made like five and six million. So I want this game to mean something. You want me to watch, Brandon?

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Those are my stipulations. So that's I know it's unreasonable, but yeah, I don't know what we're gonna see. I would expect we see some tired legs. I think we'll see some guys trying to get on the end of a stat sheet. I think there might be some goal chasing, which brings me to a question for you. We're not counting this game in the competition, are we? Jeez. We can't count this in the player pool in good faith. I mean, we both have guys in the game. You have Demon and Kane, and I have Captain Killian. But I'm cool not counting. I mean, we didn't plan for this in the models, but I'm cool with yeah, the model does not have a third place no multiplier.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

So uh that's fair. We can keep them out. But Sean, you you mentioned these guys playing so many games and their heavy legs. Like, do the Shams and Tugel care? Like, it's it sounds bad, but they're not their property come yeah, Sunday. Like they're gonna go back to their club. So it's like, all right, yeah, just run them out for one last run.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Like, yeah, both of them we'll probably be going for it. Yeah, but when you freeze, I was gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Yeah, we don't know their we don't know their internal contracts either because coaches might have a bonus where it's like, oh, you finish third at the World Cup, you get this, versus you finish fourth at the World Cup, you get that. So the money, the money from FIFA doesn't look very different. It's two million dollars. I mean, I that's crazy saying that that's not that much money, but it really is in the grand scheme of things. But internally, these players and managers may have contracts saying, hey, if you come home with a bronze medal, you get this rather than that. So that's a good point. But at the same time, though, like, is Jude gonna be up for this game? Like, he's gonna be pissed a winner in the final. Yeah, Jude's a winner.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

But it's not but the yeah, it's true, it's tough. I it's a really hard thing, Brandon. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Or or Sean, or or do we rotate the squads? Do we let the guys who didn't get legs get minutes, get get some legs in?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Yeah, if I didn't have something binding my contract, like you said, there might be in that case, in which case, if I'm too cool and I have a third place clause on my contract, you better believe I'm treating this game just as serious as the Argentina game. But if it's not, I'm letting the guys who didn't have a kick in this World Cup get out there and play. Maybe bring the the big boys on for the last 30 minutes as kind of a farewell to the tournament. I don't know. It's tough. I would leave it up to the player, I guess. If if it's my star guy, if Jude says he wants to go, of course you could go. If he says he wants to rest, Jude, you're you have the night off, bud. You're in that. So that's kind of how I would approach it. I bet you the managers are kind of talking having those conversations as well. I don't think it's gonna be an iron fist. Hey, here we go. Give it everything you got for me one last time in the hundred percent humidity. I hope it's not that. But it is an interesting kind of dynamic here because this third place game, it I forget about it every four years. I forget that it is every year, every time. And it's like, what are we doing? Let's just get to the damn final. Let's send these guys home. It's uh like I said, it's an active hostage situation.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Yeah, uh I'm not probably not gonna watch it live, but I'll definitely keep my eye on it, see if anything happens, any match highlights. I don't think we'll recap that on this podcast. Maybe just a quick, hey, England won three to two or whatever. But yeah, that one won't get broken down. So Sean, it's it's a weird one. It's a really, really weird one. And I'm glad we are talking about it now because I feel like this could go so many different ways. And of course, you know, knock on wood, you don't want the injuries to come out because anytime you put two pla two teams on with different uniforms, yeah, you never know what's gonna happen in a soccer match. So unfortunately, that's the reality that could happen as well. So, you know, we hope for no injuries, but I I don't know what it's gonna look like. I I genuinely have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Yeah, just get a nice cardio session in, enjoy South Beach, hit live at 11, do the usual, do the do the rounds and head back off to Europe and get ready for a big club season, which starts yeah, you your club probably has a preseason friendly next weekend.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

So you think you think the two teams will hit live together afterwards? I like that.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

I can see that. Signer Solidarity. That happens in rider cups sometimes. The US will lose and then they'll go out with the Europeans and have a good time, and vice versa. So I bet you we do see something like that.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Because these dudes all know each other, they play on similar clubs and teammates and enemies and whatever, but at the end of the day, they're just trying to win a game. So it'd be cool to see if that does happen. Yeah. Brandon, I was gonna say, Sean, it's it's about that time. We have on Sunday afternoon, 3 p.m. at NetLife, the New York, New Jersey, New Jersey, New York, whatever you want to call it, stadium. Don't mention where it is. Let's just an outdoor stadium in the middle of summer. We have the World Cup final, Spain and Argentina. Sean, just give me your initial knee-jerk reaction to hearing that.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

My first knee-jerk reaction is I'm absolutely pumped. My second reaction is please don't let these Canadian fires do anything to postpone or delay this match. And I'm gonna blame it all on Jesse Marsh. I don't know where he was, I don't know who started this fire. I have a few takes on this, Brandon. It might be a tortured fans podcast episode where I should dive deeper, but I will just quickly say in 2026, we have to have a better grasp on fire. It seems like we're making some real advances in modern medicine, and fire still just bewilders us. How about we start watering these trees? I don't know what the solution is. I listen, not a science guy, soccer guy. I'll blame Jesse Marsh for this. If anything happens on Canada's behalf, he's your leader, direct representation of him. So assuming this game goes off without a hitch, I think we have here an unstoppable force versus an immovable object. And you can make an argument for each of these sides being each one of those parts of the analogy. I'm not sure which one's which. I would say Spain gives me more of the immovable object vibes. And the odds unstoppable force seems to be the force, the spirit, whatever it is that makes Messi score or assist goals in the last 15 minutes. So the Immovable Object Spain, you can't score on them. Like you said, Brandon. They've allowed one this World Cup to Belgium. I don't know how you go about breaking them down. You don't have too much of the ball usually, so it's not easy to go about doing that. There's also this game, we talked, we mentioned it briefly, the Messi versus Lamin Yamall dynamic. That to me is so interesting. For those who don't know, there's an iconic photo of Messi in his younger days at Barcelona. I don't know the exact context, but I basically think it was they were doing a photo shoot of sorts, and they wanted to get a very young Barcelona fan in the fold, and Lemigne Mall's parents signed him up or something. It was almost like he was being baptized, honestly, is what the photo looks like. Messi's like dunking him in a tub, and I thought it was just for like an ad campaign or something. And Lamin Yamal at this point is an infant. I mean, he is young. Nobody knows what Lamin Yumal is going to go on to become. Well, he eventually becomes good enough to join Barcelona's Youth Academy. He's the best youth player in the world. He's now one La Liga player of the season. He is he's been touted as the next messy. They play the same position, they play similarly, they play at the same club. It's an incredible story, and now they're facing off against one another, one at the end of their career, one at the very beginning, in a World Cup final. I mean, this is straight out of Hollywood, right? Like, we don't see scripts like this.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Well, don't be be careful how you say that, because people are saying that this whole thing is scripted by my Uncle Johnny. So now that you put together this nice little story and background and this, that, and the other, people are like, well, yeah, this is what they wanted to happen. So not even Johnny can write a script.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Put that in the air. Not even Uncle Johnny can write a script that's good.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

No, Sean, it it is it is honestly a great story, and it is a great, great moment for, I think, just the game of world football, because now you do see that next generation player against the player kind of going out on you know into the sunset. And we'll get into what we think is gonna happen in the game, but just the moment it's in, I know it's in New Jersey, and you mentioned the fires, which is actually a very serious possibility that something could happen. There have been major league baseball games canceled and moved because of this, so it's definitely not in the realm of not out of the realm of possibility that this stuff. Could have had it in a dome, plenty of those. We got we got a ton of those in the US, but for whatever reason it happened to be had to be in New Jersey. So that is that is a little problematic. But honestly, 80,000 people, $30,000 tickets, you know, we've seen the numbers, Sean. It's it's insane. And to be in that stadium, I hope the true fans are gonna be in the stadium. I hope they don't get priced out. I know the Argentinians, I know they'll be there. There, there's no doubt they find a way how to make it work.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

They will be there.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Houses will be sold, cars will be sold, wedding rings will be pawned, but the Argentinians will be there.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

So I hope it leads a great atmosphere. We will be there. Sean, you will not be there. We, in spirit, I will.

SPEAKER_03 59:04

We oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

To keep saying we. But no, you're right. I hope it's not a wine and cheese crowd. It better, it better be actual fans of this game.

SPEAKER_02 59:11

Yeah, and I and I think it will be. I think I think because the the price is so high, I think the real fans will even outpay the the wine and cheese crowd. Because the wine and cheese crowd, yeah, there there will be some. Oh, I I was at the World Cup final. Cool flex. But the the guy from Argentina who had to sell everything to get to this game, he'll he'll be in there and he'll be he'll be making noise. Sean, let's turn onto the field now. Where's your head at? What do you think's gonna happen? We got two different styles of play. Is Spain gonna get on the front foot and just dominate possession and keep the ball and then wait for Argentina to to make their late run towards the end of the game? Is it a game where the first goal matters maybe more than other games? Like, what where's your head at with this?

SPEAKER_01 59:57

I I would be very surprised if we get a more action-packed final than 2022, where we saw a lot of goals, we saw end-to-end action. I'm not sure that Spain's style, while I think it's great, and I think their football is beautiful to watch sometimes. I'm not sure that their style is the most conducive to quote unquote electric type games. Okay. I think for the most part, people would say Spain matches are more boring than other teams matches because they do have total control. When one side doesn't really feel wobbly or shaky in any way, it's hard to see how the match gets really entertaining because you never have the sense that they're going to be beaten. Now, I'm not sure we're gonna get that sense, but I do think we're gonna have the lingering feeling in our head throughout the game there's going to be a messy moment. There's going to be a messy or Argentina moment, it's going to be late. We all have that belief because we'll because of what we've seen throughout this World Cup. I think, though, I do, I do, I would give Spain the edge just when you look at it again on paper and how they've performed and how they set up. Argentina aren't good for large stretches of games, and they wait and they wait and they find a way. I if you I think you'd be foolish not to predict that Spain score first in this one, right? Like it seems like Spain are going to come out and try to do what they did to France and just get a grip on the game, and they want to be the ones who dictate things. And I don't know that I've seen enough for Argentina to say that they're going to stand up and not let that happen. I do think we'll see them mix in some dark arts and try to roll around in that mud, which I love, but I don't necessarily think Spain's gonna lose their heads and fall for that trap either. So it'll be interesting. I'm not expecting a ton of goals, but Brandon, I've been I couldn't be more wrong on these games. I was wrong on both semifinals. So what do I know? But I do think I'd be shocked if I didn't see some real composure and a building into the game from Spain first, before we then pivot to Argentina and see what they have in response. That's how I see it going, but I want to hear what you have to say.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

I don't disagree with you. I do see similarly, I think my question, and maybe you can answer this, maybe not, where my head is getting stuck is Spain comes out and scores, scores the first goal. I think we both sort of agree that's probably more likely than Argentina scoring the first goal. But what happens when Spain keeps the high press and they keep possessing the ball and they make it two or three even? When does Argentina say, Alright, signal the call, you know, call the dogs, it's time to go? Like, how early can you pull that out? And I think will Spain let them pull it, call that out call them out this early?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

I think that's a good question. I think two goals feels insurmountable against Spain. I could be wrong. I'm not saying Argentina there's no chance they'll score three goals, but I would be stunned. I I don't think we've seen anything in any of Spain's matches that would lead us to believe they'll give up more than one goal, let alone two.

unknown 1:02:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

Certainly not three. So I think what we'll see is both teams in that first half, it's a such a big moment. You in these big games, you don't want to be the side that blinks first. Mike Tomlin in American football, he always says don't blink. That's his expression. It's one of those you don't want to be the team that makes a first mistake. So because of that, I think we'll see some feeling out for the first, at least till the first drinks break. Who knows? There could be a wild penalty early that throws things. We don't know. We're talking about what we expect would happen in a hundred scenarios of this game being played. Yeah. And based on what we've seen so far, I guess that's what I would expect. A pretty back and forth, cagey affair in the first half with Spain having more of the ball and more possession, but maybe not being super threatening. Maybe just trying to figure Argentina out because there are stretches where Argentina is comfortable out of possession and sitting back, and they don't look likely to concede either. It's not like England was pummeling them with chances before they eventually scored. Argentina are comfortable without having the ball. They're comfortable when they have to chase a game as well. So I think we'll see, like I said, a first half where both teams are filling each other out. I would expect Spain to score first, but I don't expect there to be a ton of goals in this one, do you?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

I don't expect a lot of goals either, but that I guess makes me even more confused about how it's gonna go, because that first goal I think will mean so much. But if Argentina don't really push for it and they give it to Spain, but Spain doesn't give up goals, it's kind of like Argentina might have to play a little bit differently to start, where they're gonna have to say, Hey, let's go get let us go get the first one. And of course, we're not saying that Argentina kicks it in their own net and they let Spain score. Of course not, but they're the they're not switched on attacking all the way until really that second half when they need to be, quote unquote. So I I wonder, I don't know if that style is going to work, Sean.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

Yeah, it's a it's a fascinating dynamic going into this. Another point I wanted to bring up, I do think one area that I would consider an advantage for Argentina, it's easy to say messy, of course. Having the best player on the pitch, huge, huge benefit. I think the thing for them is in Spain have it, but I don't think they have as much of it. And it's kind of goes back to that dark arts thing where they set the tone in that first minute and a half against England. And it's an experience level. This group for Argentina, they might have as many as eight starters who started in that last World Cup final, starting again on Sunday. And they have this sense of showing up to the moment with enough fight to let you know we're here and we're not easy to beat, but also knowing where that line is. And I think Argentina have that for the most part. Not to say they can't lose their heads or anything, but I just feel very comfortable where if you look at Spain, we talk about their best player or most talented player being Laminum all. In those Euros, it's kind of like he's blissfully unaware. He's floating, he's 17, he's just scoring goals for fun, and it's all great. Now it's a proper week of buildup. It's against Messi, his idol. It things are different, kind of like you alluded to. I think. I think the inexperience in some spots for Spain, Palcu Barsi is now the center back, young player for Barcelona, really, really good, amazing player. But it's his first real step into a moment like this. Whereas that Argentina group, I don't think they have anybody who's completely new. And they all, if they are new, they've been indoctrined into that culture where I think they'll be a little bit, they'll get in and the water will be warm for them. Where I bet you it's a little bit chilly at first for Spain.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

It's a good point. It's a really, really good point, Sean. That experience factor is something that maybe I'm not factoring in as much as I should be. I think I'm just thinking more maybe black and white, where it's like Spain score first, Spain don't give up goals. How is Argentina going to score?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

And they score.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:46

And and Spain don't give up the ball. So it's like, how are you gonna get the ball and score on that? It's of course there's gonna be a moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

We'll force a movable object situation. It's like whatever Messi always scores late, but Spain don't allow goals. Like, what do we do here?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

I think, Sean, I think this will be one of those games where you and I will watch that and be like, wow, this was an absolute master class. Because I think we see it a little bit differently. And not that we're experts by any means or anything like that, but I think we can sort of extrapolate and see the bigger picture. Whereas maybe fans that are a little bit newer to this that don't really understand, oh, Messi didn't score, Laminium all didn't score, and it was one to zero. That was stupid. And it's like, no, there's so much that goes into it around just the actual goals in the game. And I think someone like us, we may appreciate this game a little bit more than those that don't follow us as closely. Whereas the 2022 World Cup is the opposite. You see any and everything under the sun in that game. And I think the more casual fans, like, wow, this soccer thing's kind of cool. So so I do worry, I guess, and I and I say worry in quotes it's gonna be the most watched game of the whole tournament. You know, it's watched by billions of people around the world, of course. But I do worry about the uh quote unquote lackluster outcome for the for the casual.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

For sure. I that's kind of what I was alluding to with Spain. It's like their style, I enjoy it, and I think there's when you're really watching in the weeds, there's some really good stuff in there, and some of it's beautiful, but I could also see how if you're just casually watching it, it's incredibly boring sometimes because they are so sound. So it is an interesting dichotomy there. Brandon, the other thing I wanted to touch on before we get into our predictions, and we have to also set the stage for the listener on the player pool, which is coming down to the absolute wire. What side feels like they have to win more? Obviously, World Cup final. Both sides are giving it everything they have. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm kind of referring to who's going to be more disappointed with a loss. And I would preface it with like the reason I'm asking this, Argentina are the defending champs. So, in one hand, you think, oh, they've done it, they're kind of playing with house money. But they're also a much, much older side. A lot of these pieces, not just messy, a lot of these pieces are entering this World Cup in their prime and will be entering the next one past their prime. And Spain, on the other hand, they have a lot of guys in their prime, but they have a lot up and coming as well. We we've seen guys Lamine, Kubarsi, Pedri, even the likes of Nico Williams, who's starting to grow into it a little bit, and guys who come off the bench, they're they're just a bit younger. They have a bit more youth in their ranks. And I think it's their first time in a game like this. They don't have a World Cup with this group of players. Their last and only World Cup was in 2010, so there's pressure from that aspect of actually winning a great football country, another World Cup. So I think there's a lot to lose and a lot to gain for both sides, but do you have a do you have one side that maybe would feel like they needed a little bit more?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

I I think you answered it a bit in your descriptions of your of the question, and I think it's Argentina. And reason being, I think this is the end of that generation. And don't get me wrong, four years from now, they will probably have a team that is top five in the world, and that we're probably right back here again. But with this potentially being Messi's last World Cup, and some of the other players on this team, they have the chance to go back to back, which does not come up very often. I think they have more to lose. Whereas I think if you look at the Spain team, especially around La Mina Mall, this is almost like his baptism. I think the Euros was his birth, quote unquote. I think this is his baptism. And I think four years from now, it's like, all right, you're at your bar and bot mitzvah, and you're starting to become a man and you're really into it now. And I I just don't think it sounds bad, but I don't think it means as much if Spain loses than if Argentina loses this game.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

I think I would lean that way as well, just because of the fact, like you said, it's easier to paint a picture of oh, they'll be back in four years with Lamine and Petri. It's easier to say that than it is to say, oh, Argentina will be back without Messi, because we just don't know what that Argentina without Messi world looks like. So I think that's probably the right answer. Now, also, Brandon, I just want to set the stage because of Messi's two assists, you have taken a one-point lead into the final game. It's unbelievable how I I've been shafted in this freaking tournament. I had four goals from Luis Diaz ruled offside. He ended the tournament with zero points. I he I had Jonathan David score a hat trick for 18 points in my mouth in the most meaningless game against farmers from Qatar. And I've had Laminha Mall shoulder offside. Whatever the case is, I'm down a point. And I have Laminha Mall and Julian Alvarez, Brandon has Leo Messi. I need one of my guys to put something on the board. Brandon could sit comfortably and hope nobody puts anything on the board. So it's it's coming down the wire. That's all we could ask for as a podcast. We wanted something to deliver. This did exactly that. So I think it's a good job by both of us. I just want to extend the olive brand to say really well done by you, no matter what happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

I agree, Sean. And well done by you. I feel like this was a really cool way. And and kudos to you because you were the architect of this of this game. But I think it was a cool way for us to follow certain players while obviously we're watching the World Cup as well. And yeah, for it to come to the last game and both teams have players in the game. Uh, you can't ask for anything more than that. And especially when it's I have the vet, you have the kid coming up, and then you also had you have you also have Alvarez who decided to hit a banger in in the uh quarterfinals. So it it can really go it can really go any way. So I'm excited to see uh how that also pans out with with the how the uh how the game goes. And I think it's weird because we'll get into predictions next, but I don't know how my prediction fits in with my player pool team.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

Oh I know what I'm doing, and you'll probably be aware of this as well. I I couldn't pick my nose ahead of time, so I am going to pick opposite of what I want to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:06

Oh my god, this guy. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

This guy. This is going to be a 2-1 Spanish victory. Messi scores for Argentina, of course. And Leminima does not score RSS for Spain. I'm kidding. I'm actually gonna I'm kidding. I can't do that in good faith. I'll say this. I think we get extra time. I think it's 1-1 going to extra time. Okay. I think the two goals in the match, one comes from Julian Alvarez, one comes from Lominimol. Both of my guys. And I blow you out in that player pool. No, I do think it's crazy though.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

A goal by those guys in the final, and if Messi does nothing, you come out way ahead. So But it we all know it went down to the wire no matter what happens. We may have to revisit the math before you or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:57

I I think we get extra time, and I think both teams kind of I think we get penalties. And I don't know necessarily that I want that. I don't really penalties are electric. Listen here. I mean, there's stop traffic electric. Yeah. But they're not the best way to decide a champion. So I'm hoping somebody wins it in regulation. I don't even want extra time if we can avoid it, because extra time sometimes is kind of boring, especially with so much at stake. That's where you really see teams play not to lose. So I don't know, Brandon. I'm torn. I'm going 1-1 and I'm going Argentina on PKs. Vamos Argentina.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

For the listeners, he is holding up his scarf. That's right. Celebrating before the game even happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

But a big performance from Kudi Romero, too, who's been an unsung hero. He's been phenomenal. That little bit of play where he received it, touched it from his right to his left, and played the ball out in the middle of two guys closing in on him, and it's just world-class stuff. He's excellent.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:52

So you you love a center back who can dribble and I and and pass, and I and I appreciate that, Sean.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

Beautiful game, Brandon. I don't care if they give up five a game. Back post.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

If you could pass, if you could break a line passing, stop it. You're in my squad.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:08

Sean loves a deep diagonal from the center back.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

But no, Sean. This one for me. I I gotta go with my heart, and I think my heart and my head actually match in this one. I'm gonna go Spain.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

Your heart saying Spain. You you really are a Messi hater.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:25

I'm not a Messi hater. No, I just hate Messi. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

You should take his points off your board. Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

I don't hate Messi. Look, Messi can have Messi can have a goal in this. I don't care. You'd like that. As long as they lose. Yeah. No, no, no. I I just I can't this my brain can't get past Spain giving up one goal in this whole tournament. And I know they haven't played the best teams, but they played France, and France looked like the United States. They look extremely pedestrian. You shut down France. I think you can shut down Argentina, and I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go 1-0. I think it's gonna be tight, and I think the last 20 minutes are gonna be absolute cinema because Argentina will have eight attackers on the field, but I think Spain do just enough to hold them off, and they win 1-0.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:19

Honestly, Brandon, if I was just strictly head, like somebody strap me to a lie detector, I think that's what I would say too, because it's just so hard to say somebody will score against Spain. Honestly, it's it's hard to think.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

I yeah, I can't I can't get around it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:33

Yeah, and I do I love the thought of it being in Messi's hands late, but honestly, it's it's tough if they're chasing a goal. It's like you could be chasing shadows just trying to get this the ball back off of Spain. So it's so hard. It's gonna be awesome. I'm pumped for it. The storyline's going in, you can't write him any better. I'm not too proud to call your uncle Johnny and ask for a little fix. I'll take a fix.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

I don't care how you made it this far, so hey. Yeah, sure. Call him one more time, call him up one more time.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:01

And I don't want to hear eat the Egyptians crying about uh, please, piss off. Messi's the goat. I'm learning that the Johnson household in general hates Messi. Brandon's Brandon's wife hates Messi. It's unbecoming. But just know that this platform, as long as I'm as long as I'm involved, we're at least partially a messy household here. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:23

Shut, shut, shot. You're you're a funny, funny, funny guy. But no, I I I'm not a messy hater. Uh honestly. He is world class. I do think my wife has probably rubbed off on me and and sort of added to that. But I do I do have a I have a messy Miami jersey upstairs. Like it's not I'm not a hater, and I think he's world class and the best to ever do it. But I think it's I think it's time for the young pups. I think Lamine has a showing. I don't think he scores, but I think he has one of those games where you're like, all right, he's here. Maybe he has an assist. But I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be uh the guy whose name I always butcher, or your eyes the ball, or whatever, however he says I can't say his name. I haven't said his name this whole World Cup, right? But I think he's gonna be the one to score the goal to win the game.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:07

Honestly, I want to I'm glad you brought him up as we get get out of here because he's such an unsung hero. He's been at Rail Society his whole career. Michael Yarts the ball, he just he's so good for Spain. He's good at club level. I watched Society a decent amount, and he's he's always been great for them. But he is a perfect Spanish striker. His movement is pressing, the way he finds areas, he's so skilled too. Like you can see just from the penalty finish and how cool and composed he is. He he's a dog and somebody who's very unassuming. Like with his how he looks on the pitch and his presence online and just his stardom, it's all very low-key. And he just goes about his business and gets the job done. I do hope, Brandon, if Spain do win this game, please at least let Lamin have scored a goal for me. That would be absolutely devastating if I if my Argentinians lose and Lamin blanks me. So that'd be tough. So hopefully we at least get something we're looking for here. I'm worried I just sealed the Argentinians' fate by picking them. That's why I tried to do the reverse jinx, but I've got to be right once, right? I can't go tournament.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:12

Even even a blind squirrel finds a nut, sure. So maybe, maybe it'll be your day. Maybe not. But probably not, but we'll keep we'll keep going. No, Sean, it seriously will be it's gonna be a good one. And there's so many different ways this game can go, and so many different players, and it might come down to one moment, it could come up to come down to a slip and a mistake, and and and a team scores. And I think me being a much more neutral fan in this game, I'm gonna just watch it and enjoy it. I'll have the popcorn, I'll have the drinks, we'll be chilling. You, I think, unfortunately, your watching experience is gonna be a little bit different than mine. But look, if your team comes out and wins it at the end, Argentina wins it at the end, you're gonna be a lot happier than I will. And not that I won't be happy, it's it's good, they won, whatever, but I think that's what you gotta live with when you have a dog in the fight.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

Yeah, it's the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, Brandon, and I'll sign up for it every time. That's why that's what I love about it. I'm addicted to it. I need to feel something, and I'll go down with my guys if I have to. You might see me pop up in a lamine kit on Sunday, though. You know, it's just one time switch.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

All I can say is over the same, Sean, is imagine not liking sports. This is just it's beautiful, Sean. And and I'm so glad that it's come down to this. I'm so glad we have this platform to talk about it and discuss it. It's it just I I I don't people that don't like sports, I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:37

Oh, I don't either. I never will until I suffer a really bad loss in sports, and then I ask myself why. Why do I do this? And why do I continue to do this? And that's what Tottenham does a lot to me. So sue me that I'm rooting for Argentina now. I also bet them pre-tournament to win. I have a futures ticket on them, Brandon.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:54

Couple dollars on the gear.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:56

Yeah, so I could say we all I want. Fair enough, trying to cash tickets.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:01

I had it, I had my uh one dollar FanDuel bet for England to win that I could have cashed out for $1.50 before their semifinal game. I did not because what have you kept kept faith with my boys and I donated a dollar fifty to FanDuel. So yeah, you've got to respond service.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:17

The Tuchel Titanic is what you watched.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:19

The Tuchel Titanic, Sean.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:21

But but I'm excited. I can't wait. We'll be back with you guys Monday morning. We'll be in your ears with a recap of the World Cup final. So that's what you have to look forward to.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

Yes, we will be coming to you directly after the game, recording Sunday night, up Monday, uploaded Monday morning. And Sean, uh, I'm just excited to do this. I'm excited to watch this with you. Any any last words for the listeners?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:44

No, just I just pray Jesse Marsh keeps his country and his in his forest clean, you know, clean and safe.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:51

Finding a way to bring in Jesse Marshton talking about the World Cup final and it not even have to do with Canada soccer is world class from you, Sean. So thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:01

That wasn't premeditated, Brandon. I was thinking about what could disrupt this game. I was thinking thunderstorm, and then I was thinking, well, you don't want Tazy out. Who could I blame for that?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

Good old Jesse. But Sean, thank you as always. I love getting to break down the these games with you. Preview the the final. We've been doing this all summer, Sean. It's all come down to this. It's one last game. It's it could we couldn't ask for anything more. So thank you as always, my friend. Listeners, like, subscribe. We we love the comments, we love your feedback. And until next time, take care.