Episode 19: A Clarifying Look at Jesus’s Birth

Well, the super stores have Christmas merchandise out so ... yeah ... it's not too early to talk about Christmas! When you pull out your Nativity sets to decorate your home every December have you ever given thought to whether or not they're historically accurate?  Turns out ... most of what we think we know about the setting of Jesus's birth is NOT how we celebrate it. Of course, the most important fact of the holiday IS clear ... that our loving Father sent his Son to show us how much he loves us.  THAT will never change.

Laurie welcomes back return guest Melissa Henderson -- author, mother, grandmother and good friend.  Melissa shares her insights and thoughts about the birth of Jesus and urges us if we want to know the truth about the holiday, the Word of God is the only accurate place to look.  

Melissa mentions her published children's books.  If you'd like to check them out -- maybe as Christmas gifts for the favorite children in her life, click right here! 

Transcript

0:01

Hi, I'm your host Lori Larson, and this is the year I read the Bible. Welcome a Lifelong Christian. I thought I was familiar with the Bible, but in 2023 I accepted the challenge of reading the whole thing, cover to cover. Whenever I encountered something I didn't understand or wanted to learn more. I jotted it down, but I kept reading to stay on schedule. Then I reached the end Imagine Confetti rating down on me, and a huge sigh of relief. I had 40 topics to research in 2024. I started diving into all those topics. I did research, I wrote blogs and I shared them with whoever might wanna learn too. And in 2025, the project continues. I published a book containing all my essays, and now a podcast. Is there something you can learn from that dusty book that sits on all of our shelves? Yes. Yes, there is. Let's dive into The year I read the Bible. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the year I read the Bible. Today we're gonna take a look at a clarifying look at Jesus's birth, ah, the story of Jesus's birth. We all know it, don't we? We decorate our home during the Christmas season with nativity sets, complete with Mary Joseph and the baby Jesus. Born in a wooden manger stuffed with hay, peaceful animals all around. Beneath the bright star, the shepherds looking on the three wise men in their finery offering strange gifts. We read the story from the Gospel of Luke every year, either at home or in church. We sing the carols. We may even performed in our church's nativity production. We love this story and it certainly earned its way into our Christian lexicon. After all, it's the story of the birth of Jesus. But today I'd like to offer up a few clarifying details that may stray a little bit from those that you thought you knew. Rest assured that nothing that my research has uncovered will change a single thing about the meaning of Christmas. And the birth of God's son. But maybe a few details will make you go, Hmm. Let's get started. Joseph and Mary's trek to Bethlehem. Luke's gospel chapter two starts this way. In those days, Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. And everyone went to their own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem, the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. That translation was the new international version. How far was this trek that the two made to fulfill the decree? We know that the distance from Nazareth to Bethlehem was and still is, about 90 miles. There are several routes that they could have taken, but considering the two most likely traveled by foot at times, both walking and other times, Joseph leaving a donkey that was carrying Mary the trip would've taken a week or more. Joseph and Mary would most likely not have traveled alone because as the Bible says, everyone went to their own town to register. There was more than likely a caravan of travelers going together. Imagine that, and I'm mostly speaking to the ladies here. Have you been pregnant? We know Mary gave birth shortly after arriving in Bethlehem, so we have to assume she was in her final month of pregnancy during the trip. Do you remember how unnaturally big you felt, how your muscles and joints ached even with the normal movement? How you couldn't eat much either because there just wasn't room in your stomach or you felt nauseous trying to digest. Now, imagine walking for a week, straight or worse, riding a donkey, not known for their smooth, luxurious ride. Not to mention camping out along the way, sleeping on the ground, trying to make yourself comfortable. Atop tree roots or rocks to say that the trip was miserable for Mary is most likely an understatement. Was there really no room at the end? Depending on the translation of the Bible you're reading, you could be led to believe that there was no room at the Inn in Bethlehem, which is certainly understandable. The book of Micah in the Old Testament tells us that Bethlehem is the smallest town in Judah. Scholars estimate the town had no more than 3000 residents at the time of the census with people flooding into such a tiny little town for temporary lodging, whatever hotels or ins the town offered would be filled to the max. Luke two seven in the King James version reads, and she brought forth her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger because there was no room for them in the in. However, that same verse in the new international version reads, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger. Because there was no guest room available for them. Do you see the subtle distinction? The first one says there was no room for them in the Inn. The more modern translation says there was no guest room available for them. I believe Bible scholars have begun to more accurately understand the true reason Mary and Joseph gave birth to Jesus in a stable. Bethlehem houses at that time were two room structures called a Catal Lua that were built over a one room cavern like basement, sometimes called a grotto. It was likely that Joseph and Mary had tried to make plans to stay with a distant family member in Bethlehem. But in all likelihood had not been able to confirm the plans amidst all the other Nazareth travelers heading that way. Let's imagine Mary and Joseph completing the exhausting trip and arriving at the two room home of. Third Aunt Martha, twice removed, only to find out that other guests beat them there, and were staying in the Petaluma. So what did they do? They made do with the grotto or basement, but guess what? The grotto was typically used for in Bethlehem homes of the time. The family's livestock were brought into the grotto each night to prevent them from being stolen. Especially the animals considered most valuable, such as cows and goats. What did the stable look like? Sometimes we see illustrations of the stable, where the holy family started, and it's a beautiful bucolic setting. With a stall surrounded by wood, clean, sweet hay, up to the animal's, knees, cows, mooing, while the star of Bethlehem shines down on the peaceful scene. Uh, probably not. These works of art were certainly influenced by Western artists' view of a modern barn or stable. Instead, the family probably made a temporary home in the stone lined basement beneath the house that housed the people upstairs. The grotto more resembled a cave than a barn. The couple would've had to use whatever fabrics or pillows they brought with them to make Mary comfortable for the childbirth. Mangers were stone watering troughs that animals drank from. The stone would've been effective in keeping the water temperature cool for the animals and would've been much more durable than anything wooden would've been. Ladies, can you imagine placing your newborn baby in a stone cradle? Why were the shepherds the first ones to be notified of Jesus' birth? In Luke two, eight through 12, it reads, and there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks. At night, an angel of the Lord appeared to them and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, do not be afraid. I bring you good news. That will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David, a savior has been born to you. He is the Messiah, the Lord. This will be assigned to you. You will find a baby wrapped in clothes and lying in a manger. In Jesus' time, a shepherd was considered a lowly profession, even so far as social outcasts due to their humble status in society. Imagine for a moment the personal hygiene of men and boys who slept outside away from the ability to bathe, always smelling faintly like the animals they guarded. Yet the angels of the Lord appeared first to the shepherds to announce the birth of the Messiah. Just like the odd start that the glorious son of God arrived in a borrowed grotto. Laid in the stone watering trough of farm animals after his parents had traveled far from home. By doing so, God made it clear that his precious son, the Messiah, was coming for the humble folk, not just the rich and royal. And what do you make of the fact? That is Jesus ministered to people later. He was known as the Good Shepherd and often used parables and analogies about a shepherd caring for his sheep. Next question, who were the magi? How far did they come and when did they arrive? Matthew is the only gospel writer to mention the visit of the Magi or the wise men in the story of Jesus'. Birth chapter two in Matthew's Gospel describes the Magi from the east arriving in Jerusalem and asking, where is the one who has born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him. Verse two. This worries King Herod, and also sets into place Herod's plan to murder Jesus before he ever has the opportunity to grow up and become a problem. Scholars feel that the Magi or the three wise men described by Matthew can best be described as priests, interpreters of omens, astrologers, or royal counselors. They were thought to originate in Persia or modern day Iran. Research suggests a range of 500 up to 900 miles as the journey made by these travelers to see the Christ child considering they were traveling, most likely by camel, probably in a caravan of way more than three, including security to keep them safe. Cooks to provide them with something to eat and wagons to hold their tents and extra clothes. It is commonly determined that the journey took two years to complete. So although our holiday nativity sets may include the three wise men the night of Jesus' birth, they wouldn't actually arrive until the baby Jesus is a toddler. But what was the meaning of their gifts to the baby Jesus? Matthew two 11 reads on coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Note that the family was no longer in the stable or the grotto. They had moved to a house and were residing in Bethlehem before their escaped to Egypt to avoid Herod's murderous search. As for the gifts the Magi brought for Jesus, what do they mean? I saw a funny graphic on social media that said something like, if the three wise men were women, they would've asked directions. Arrived on time. Helped deliver the baby, cleaned the stable, made a casserole, and brought practical gifts because the magi clearly understood the importance and destiny of this child there Visiting. The three types of gifts are symbols of the three key aspects of Christ's identity. The gold is a precious metal and points to Jesus's royalty. The frankincense is an expensive perfume or fragrance, and points to his divinity, and the murr was used as an embalming fluid to prepare a body for burial, which points to his humanity. Their gifts. Told the story of how God himself came down from heaven as our king gold to fulfill his priestly duties, frankincense, and eventually died for our sins. Thanks. Goes to the christianity.com article. The gifts of the Magi, spiritual meaning and significance for this information. In what year was Jesus born and was it really December 25th? It's pretty much agreed by everyone involved that Jesus was not born on December 25th. Why? First of all, the Bible does not mention the date or even the month that Jesus was born. But the shepherds would not have typically been out in the fields at night with their flocks in December due to the cold. This leads scholars to believe Jesus was actually born in the spring when church officials at the end of the third century settled on December 25th. They likely wanted the date to coincide with existing pagan festivals. Honoring Saturn, the Roman God of agriculture, and Mitra the Persian God of light. That way it became easier to convince Rome's pagan subjects to accept Christianity as the empire's official religion. Thanks goes to Sarah Pruitt's article. Why is Christmas celebrated on December 25th? Okay, so the date is wrong, but what about the year bC means before Christ. So was Jesus born in zero or one ad? No. It takes a little bit of puzzle solving, but there are several known events in history that can help us deduce when Jesus was born. We know that Herod the Great died in four bc. But he's the king who called the Magi to him for help in locating Jesus so he could kill him before he could fulfill the prophecy. In other words, Herod was still alive when Jesus was two years old. Also, the Roman census that called Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem during the final weeks of her pregnancy. Has been historically proven to have taken place in eight bc so a good as any guest is that Jesus Christ was born approximately seven years before Christ bc. What does all this mean to our Christmas celebration? So Joseph and Mary stayed in a stone basement full of animals instead of stable. The Megi didn't appear till two years later. It wasn't Christmas day as we know it, and our holiday was placed on the calendar based on pagan god's and rituals. The resulting calendar is off track at least seven years for all time. But does it matter not to me, the birth of Jesus? Despite all the inconsistencies I brought up, today is still the most awe inspiring event in human history. Beginning with Jesus' birth, God made a new covenant with his people, offering up his only son who had been by his sight since he created the world to come to earth in human form, not to condemn this world full of sinners. But to love us and redeem us. It's a beautiful celebration every year, even with all its misinterpretations and one worthy of being repeated over and over when Christmas rolls around Again, maybe give a tiny bit of thought to what we covered today, but don't let it change a bit of your joy and awe as you celebrate the birth of Jesus. Let's pray. Dear God, we're humans and therefore we make mistakes. And yes, we've even made mistakes for thousands of years in our celebration and understanding of the birth of your son. But that doesn't stop us from understanding the wonderful gift you've given us and continue to give us. Help us to stay focused on you and Jesus as we live our lives. Until we join you in Paradise. Amen. And now stay tuned for my chat with my guest.

Laurie: 20:46

And I am here with a return guest, to the podcast. About a month ago, I introduced you to my friend Melissa Henderson, who is an author and a dear friend, and she is back today to be our guest on this Christmas episode. Welcome, Melissa.

Melissa: 21:05

Thank you. Oh, I love it. Christmas episode. I love that. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having. Me back.

Laurie: 21:13

It's kind of funny to be talking about Christmas this time of year. In my journey through the Bible, this just happened to be the time when I hit the New Testament, so here we go.

Melissa: 21:26

Well, the stores already have Christmas things, the decorations and everything are already on the shelves, so.

Laurie: 21:32

Sometimes you go into the store and it's not even Halloween yet, and you see Thanksgiving and Christmas decorations for available

Melissa: 21:39

Yes, yes.

Laurie: 21:42

I love Christmas. I always have absolutely love Christmas and I love the whole, the star of Bethlehem shining down on the little wooden stable with the cows and out in the woods and everything's so beautiful. I was a little. I don't know, amazed, I guess was the word when I really started researching, the current thoughts. I didn't come up with anything myself, but, the current thoughts by Bible scholars of the traditional Christmas setting, which this essay covered, starting with, as we all know, Joseph and Mary had to go. To Bethlehem for a census that was required by the, government and she had to ride the donkey. Well, we assume she rode the donkey or walked, or a combination of both. It was like 90 miles. You and I have both been pregnant before. Can you imagine riding a donkey for a week your weeks within the timeframe of giving birth, do you think the fact that Mary was carrying God's son made it any easier to make that trek?

Melissa: 22:59

Oh my, no, I cannot imagine riding a donkey at all. What weather? Pregnant or not pregnant? When I was a young girl, I tried to get on a little pony. My sister tried to put me up on a little pony and I was so chubby she couldn't even lift me up to get on the Little Pony. And so I've had no desire at all to ride a horse or a pony. I can't imagine though, married, being pregnant and that far along we see movies, we see books, depicting illustrations of, Mary, riding side saddle, and then walking a little bit. But I can't imagine, that, because what was the weather? You know, the dust and they had their supply, on another donkey and they weren't by themselves. They were a caravan of people,

Laurie: 23:51

maybe

Melissa: 23:52

know.

Laurie: 23:52

along the side of the road. I'm sure they didn't have lodging every night because it was a multi-day trek.

Melissa: 23:59

Right. And I don't think, knowing that she was carrying God's son, I don't think that made it any easier. I think her struggles, on the donkey and through the dust and weather would've been the same as other mothers would endure, a pain, maybe early contraction. But I feel that she knew she was carrying the precious cargo, the precious child of God. So. Her worries might have been more intense because this long travel, she's probably thinking, oh, I wanna get there safely. I want to make sure the baby is healthy and everything goes well with the birth. And she was young. She was very young. So she did not have worldly wisdom, but she did have a God guiding her along, taking care of his son, through the whole experience. So I don't think her ride was any easier, but I think she was probably, more concerned about, I'm gonna take care of this baby the best I can.

Laurie: 24:59

So they complete this difficult journey, and they get. To Bethlehem and we often hear there was no room for them in the inn. But the essay went into was it really an inn. When you think about an inn, you think of a lodge or a hotel somewhere where you pay money to rent a room. And a lot of Bible scholars say. Bethlehem probably would not have had an in, in the way we think about it at that time because it was such a small town with so few population, there would be no need for an in. Joseph was. to Bethlehem because that's where his family's from. That's why, the census him to go there. So maybe it was the guest room of a distant family member, but once they got there, other family members had already taken it. So what do you think about that? I.

Melissa: 26:02

I agree. People in that time usually stayed with family or friends. As they're going along and, they need to find a place to stay. And Joseph, along with the other people in the caravan, we all need a place to stay, and can you just picture joseph thinking, okay, we need to get her inside. We need to have her somewhere safe. Baby's gonna come soon. We don't need to be out here in the night air or whatever. But, like you said, there, there were not ends. Like we think like the Holiday Inn, the Hilton Inn, you know, there weren't, places like that. And if there was, they would've cost money. And Mary and Joseph probably did not have, a lot of money to, oh, let's go stay at this fancy place, to have this baby, but because Jesus was born in. Not a fancy place. That's humble beginnings, that shows us that whatever we endured, Jesus has already endured it.

Laurie: 27:02

Yeah.

Melissa: 27:02

He started from humble beginnings. Picture straw around him. Picture, whether there were animals or not. Some, like you say, scholars say there were some say we don't know, his parents were not given. His earthly parents were not given preferential treatment. Oh, here comes, the mother of the mathia let's, find her the finest room and the best place to stay. No, no. This baby was born in humble beginnings, which shows you how Jesus was throughout Jesus' life. He didn't. Try to find somewhere fancy to stay. He stayed out in the fields, swept in the grass, with maybe no cover at all. Just his clothing,

Laurie: 27:47

was God's plan for him to come into the world in such a lowly, modest, humble way. That was part of the entire message to mankind is,

Melissa: 27:59

Yeah.

Laurie: 27:59

a earthly king where he's got crowns and velvet and gold. He is my son, a heavenly king who is there amongst the people and humble.

Melissa: 28:12

That makes him more relatable to the everyday person jesus came from the very lowest, he was, born in humble, humble beginnings.

Laurie: 28:23

So

Melissa: 28:24

Yep.

Laurie: 28:25

the first people that were called upon to come and witness the baby after he was born were the lowly shepherds out in the field. I say lowly shepherds because that. Occupation at the time was considered a lowly position. You're out in the elements. You always smell like sheep, you're dirty, you're dusty. Not a lot of people wanted to do it. And those that did, they were the bottom rung of society, right? But this beautiful significance that those were the people, those were the ones that God called. To be the first humans to witness, Jesus and welcome him after he was born. Of course later Jesus describes himself as the good shepherd. What are your thoughts on this? Is it a complete circle kind of thing?

Melissa: 29:18

That's a great way to put it, a complete circle because, Jesus, like we said, born. Slowly humble beginnings and here are the shepherds, the first ones out in their field. And the shepherds don't leave their sheep. So that was a major thing, but they see that. Star they know, to go and see this new baby. If Jesus had been born, into royalty, and royalty came to see him first, that would've set a completely different tone for, his life and the fact that he was born, from. Lowly beginnings, the shepherds were the lowest, considered the lowest occupation. So here they go and see this new baby. I think that people could relate to him more because of the shepherds, what an honor to be shepherd and get to see, instead of having, a king or a queen, or somebody in high authority. See him first. So to me, it's just a beautiful, feeling knowing that they got to go see him first.

Laurie: 30:25

And then later when Jesus himself the Good Shepherd, he knows his sheep's name, he knows

Melissa: 30:33

yes.

Laurie: 30:33

they need to be comforted. He provides love and comfort to them. And again, it's just one of those beautiful analogies that, the New Testament is known for. Uh, gives us hope and comfort that, okay, I wanna be one of his sheep. I wanna be, one of his loyal sheep. I don't want to be the one that gets lost and he has to drop everything and come after me, but I know he will if he has

Melissa: 31:00

Right. Oh, right. And there's places in the Bible where Jesus will, call out someone's name and they're like, uh, oh, how does he know me? How do you know my name? Jesus knows us all, he doesn't leave. God doesn't leave us, you know?

Laurie: 31:14

Yeah.

Melissa: 31:16

get chills thinking about it. It's just always surrounded by the love. Um.

Laurie: 31:20

Yes. So this essay covers some subjects that some we've talked about already, but they were known one way in the traditional Christmas story. But then after more modern research is felt to be different, such as. What the stable looked like, where Jesus was born, when the wise men arrived to see him, and even on what day Jesus was born. So what is your take on all these inconsistencies and does it matter or can we still celebrate Jesus' birth with certainty?

Melissa: 32:00

We could definitely celebrate his birth with certainty. We know that through the word of God, that it was given to us by God, the Bible. But the telling of the birth of Jesus reminds me of that game telephone tag, your. As a young girl in elementary school, we played a game where, you know, you whisper something to the person besides you and then they whisper it to the next person. And by the end of the line, the story may be completely different, there may be something added to it or something taken away. So biblical scholars, share that people have added elements over the years to certain stories, to make it more believable. Or interesting movies do that, books do that. It makes me think about participating in plays at church Christmas plays, you know, the plastic baby doll, wrapped in a little blanket to represent Jesus, and then costumes made out of old bathrobes or sheets or, sandals from a department store. But all those. Things help us get closer to Jesus because we're portraying the birth of Jesus. Are they perfect items to share his birth. Maybe, you know, the meaning of his birth is what is most important. And when we rely on scripture, we know that's God's given word to be revealed to us and believed. When we see movies, when we read books, when we, hear stories, go back to the Bible, read scripture, see what scripture says, not what someone says in a movie. Yes, movies are entertaining, books are entertaining. We both write books, so we love to write stories. But if there's a question. Go to scripture, read, reread, do bible study. Ask questions. If you don't really understand, ask your pastor. Ask a trusted, person in the church, what does this mean? Were the wise men really there that day? That's been a big, controversy. In your essay, you talk about that, were they there or, well, they probably were not there that day.

Laurie: 34:10

of miles away,

Melissa: 34:12

yes,

Laurie: 34:13

at that time. Some researchers think it could have been years later that they got there

Melissa: 34:21

But that's just part of the story that has been, portrayed over the years. Let's have the, wise men there, bringing the gifts, because, that sounds like it. It's a beautiful story. It is. But then when you read the scripture and you think about, oh, that's right, it would've taken a while to get there because there were no cars. Or airplanes. They were going by donkey or walking, so it would take a while. Like I said, get back to scripture, read the scripture, see what it says, and, you'll understand more, of the true story of the birth of Jesus.

Laurie: 34:54

In the case of the wise men not coming until Jesus is a toddler, it doesn't really matter that they weren't there immediately. It's not logical that they would be what does matter. Is that they followed the star, that God put

Melissa: 35:10

Yeah.

Laurie: 35:11

to mark the birth of his son. And they weren't Jews, they weren't, anyone who was necessarily waiting for the birth of this child, but they were curious and wanted to know. And so they went on this long journey and maybe it did take a year. They were following that, so that's the message that we should hold onto. Not the fact that, oh, well, you know, that's not true that they weren't there at the stable. No, nobody said that they were,

Melissa: 35:41

right, right. And that long trip, that meant that they had to give up their. Life to take this long trip. So what about their family members? What about their occupations? They were determined to get there to see him even if he was a toddler,

Laurie: 36:00

Yes.

Melissa: 36:00

that I, that's just a beautiful part of the story too. Yeah. So, I love that. Matthew in the book of Matthew, he talks about the Magi. But Luke focuses more on Mary and Elizabeth. So we have the different, tellings of the story of the birth of Jesus, which is another way for God to show us, okay, this is what happened, and this is this person's account, and this is this person's account. What matters is Jesus was born. We just look to scripture. I keep saying that. Look to scripture and you'll find the answers.

Laurie: 36:36

That's excellent advice. And the more you look, the more you read and study, the more you'll understand.

Melissa: 36:43

Yes.

Laurie: 36:44

Well, Melissa, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your wisdom and your insights. I've really enjoyed having you and you've given us so much to think about. So thank you so much for being willing to come back after the first time

Melissa: 37:00

oh, well thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. I love talking about the Bible and I always learn something new. So like we said, you read it, you talk about it, and hopefully, when people hear this, they will draw closer to God. So thank you for having this. So.

Laurie: 37:15

and in case, so I know you talked about in your intro for the first episode that you wrote a lot. You do continue to write a lot of inspirational, devotionals and, guideposts and so forth, but you also write children's books and I'd like you to just take a minute to talk about your children's books and then I will leave in the episode notes, a website where people can, look for you if they are interested in buying those books.

Melissa: 37:46

Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you so much. Yes, I have, Lakey, the lizard. Because when we moved to, South Carolina, we found out there were a lot of lizards. We had lizards in Virginia, but definitely a lot more here. So I thought, well, let's write a book about it, for our grandson. And, that tells us the story that we don't have to be afraid of the lizards because God made the lizards and God made us all wear all his creations. Then after that one, people ask, what's your next book? And so I wrote Grumpy the Gator, because another thing, we have so many alligators around here, which we did not have where we lived in Virginia. So, grumpy, the Gator tells the kids, if you see a gator, tell an adult, don't go near the pond. But as we do have a lot of ponds here. And God created the gators too, but we do not need to get near the gators. So,

Laurie: 38:38

Yes.

Melissa: 38:38

I do, want to continue writing some children's stories, working on those along with, some other, books, working on a grandparenting devotional and, some, other stories that are in the works. So,

Laurie: 38:51

that's

Melissa: 38:51

I'm, I.

Laurie: 38:52

I will definitely include your website on the episode notes and on the topic of Grumpy Gators, I was just walking my dog this morning and we have, two ponds, one on each side of the main road. I occasionally will see a gator and I know exactly where to look, where he likes to hang out on either side. And there he was this morning. I hadn't seen him in several months, but he has returned. So we will be

Melissa: 39:17

Oh my. Definitely, be careful'cause we just don't know when they're gonna decide to start walking towards us. So just be careful.

Laurie: 39:29

All right. Well thank you so much, Melissa. I've really enjoyed chatting with you and we will see you soon.

Melissa: 39:36

All right. Thank you.

Laurie: 39:38

Bye-bye.

39:51

and that's it for today. Thank you very much for being here with me on the year I read the Bible Podcast. We'll be back with another episode next week. If you enjoy this podcast, please do all the normal things to spread the word like it. Review it, share it with your friends. If you are interested in additional the year, I read the Bible resources such as the book, the video channel, and the blog, I will certainly include the links in the show notes, and I'd love to hear about your own journey to read the Bible cover to cover. Have you done it or are you doing it right now? Please reach out to me and let me know how it's going. Until next time, it's Lori Larson with the year I read the Bible. Bye.