The Year I Read the Bible with Laurie Larsen

Episode 22: Did Jesus Help Abraham Lincoln Get Elected?

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What is the United States' 16th President Abraham Lincoln doing in a series about the Bible?  Listen to find out and make up your own mind as to whether Jesus helped Honest Abe get elected!

My guest today is fellow former resident of the Land of Lincoln, and personal friend Beth Dulee. Beth shares her insight on whether God gets involved in the results of our elections.  And she shares a great example of situations when you work really hard to make something come true, and you truly want it, NOT get it, only to realize that God had something better and greater planned for you than you could've ever come up with on your own!  (Just like Lincoln losing his Senator race, which freed him up to serve as President two years later!)

We discuss many of the Lincoln sites in and around Illinois' state capital, Springfield.  I'll link those locations here in case you're close enough to take a road trip!

The Lincoln Home

Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum

Lincoln's New Salem

The Lincoln Tomb

Hi, I'm your host Lori Larson, and this is the year I read the Bible. Welcome a Lifelong Christian. I thought I was familiar with the Bible, but in 2023 I accepted the challenge of reading the whole thing, cover to cover. Whenever I encountered something I didn't understand or wanted to learn more. I jotted it down, but I kept reading to stay on schedule. Then I reached the end Imagine Confetti rating down on me, and a huge sigh of relief. I had 40 topics to research in 2024. I started diving into all those topics. I did research, I wrote blogs and I shared them with whoever might wanna learn too. And in 2025, the project continues. I published a book containing all my essays, and now a podcast. Is there something you can learn from that dusty book that sits on all of our shelves? Yes. Yes, there is. Let's dive into The year I read the Bible. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the year. I read the Bible. Thank you for joining me, which reminds me if you like what you hear on this podcast, please do me the favor of telling your friends and family members. I love these Bible study topics and research to reach as many people as possible. But back to today's topic, today's essay involves the 16th president of the United States, Abraham Lincoln. How could honest Abe possibly tie into an essay about the Bible? You ask? Well, let's find out. It's titled, did Jesus Help Abraham Lincoln Get Elected? Having grown up in the land of Lincoln, I've always been a fan of our country's 16th president. As an elementary school student, we took annual field trips to Abraham Lincoln's home in the Illinois state capital of Springfield, where he lived for 24 years. We also toured his tomb and the presidential library. Did you know that one of Lincoln's most famous speech elements came straight from the gospels? To refresh your memory, let me show you Mark three, starting with verse 20. Jesus had just recently appointed his 12 disciples and he was beginning his ministry in earnest. His message was not setting well with people. This will be in the new international version. Then Jesus entered a house, and again, a crowd gathered so that he and his disciples were not ever able to eat. When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him for, they said he is out of his mind. And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said he is possessed by Biab. By the Prince of demons, he is driving out demons. So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables. How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. So how does this tie back to Abraham Lincoln? Two years before Lincoln was elected as president, he was running for the US Senate. He was selected as the Republican candidate from the state of Illinois running against Democrat Steven Douglas. On June 16th, 1858, he accepted the party nomination at the Republican State Convention in Springfield, Illinois. Lincoln had prepared an acceptance speech that he called his house divided speech. He delivered it to more than a thousand delegates who had gathered. Here's a short portion of Lincoln's full speech, Mr. President and gentleman of the convention. We are now far into the fifth year since a policy was initiated with the avowed object and confident promise of putting an end to slavery agitation under the operation of that policy that Agitation has not only not ceased, but has constantly augmented. In my opinion, it will not cease until a crisis shall have been reached and passed. A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the union to be dissolved. I do not expect the house to fall, but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Either the opponents of slavery will arrest the further spread of it and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction. Or its advocates will push it forward till it shall become a like lawful in all the states old as well as New North as well as South. Mr. Lincoln never said the Bible states or Jesus tells us, but he didn't have to. Lincoln's audience would've been familiar with the concept of a house divided as a statement made by Jesus and recorded in the gospels. By including it in the speech. The majority of listeners recognized it as Jesus's words. We know that the speech caused concern to Lincoln's friends who regarded it as too radical for the occasion. Lincoln had previewed the speech to his law partner William Herndon before delivering it, and although Herndon considered Lincoln morally courageous, he advised that it would be politically incorrect to base this speech on Jesus's words. Lincoln, however, would not be deterred. Responding to his partner, he referred to the house divided language. This way, quote, the proposition is indisputably true, and I will deliver it as written. I want to use some universally known figure expressed in simple language as universally known that it may strike home to the minds of men in order to rouse them to the peril of the times. Afterward the speech created many repercussions, giving Lincoln's political opponent fresh ammunition. Herndon remarked quote, when I saw Senator Douglas making such headway against Mr. Lincoln's house divided speech, I was nettled and irritable and said to Mr. Lincoln one day this Mr. Lincoln. Why in the world do you not say to Mr. Douglas when he is making capital out of your speech? Douglass, why whine and complain to me because of that speech? I am not the author of it. God is go and whine and complain to him for its revelation and utterance. Mr. Lincoln looked at me one short, quizzical moment and replied, I can't end quote. Lincoln lost that Senate seat to Douglas. A colleague of Lincoln Leonard Sweat is quoted as later writing to Mr. Herndon. Nothing could have been more unfortunate or inappropriate. It was saying first the wrong thing, yet he saw it as an abstract truth, but standing by the speech would ultimately find him in the right place. The right place because although he lost the chance to be Senator, he gained the vote just two years later to be president. Reflecting on it several years later, Herndon said the speech did awaken the people, and despite Lincoln's defeat, he thought the speech was instrumental in making him president. Through logic Inductively seen, he said, Lincoln as a statesman and political philosopher announced an eternal truth, not only as broad as America, but covers the world end quote listeners. Have you ever lost something that you truly wanted and worked hard for only to later gain something else that you never dreamed of? But turned out to be much better for you. Do you believe that God has a hand in our elected officials? Because this situation would surely be an example of God helping to guide Lincoln to the position where he had much more control over righting the wrongs of human slavery. Then if Lincoln had been selected as a senator from Illinois. Through Lincoln's loss, he was able to ultimately serve in the seat of the most influential official in the land. When I read Lincoln's actual words, I have to translate his meaning amidst the manner of speaking of the day, which is different from 21st century English. However, there is no doubt that he became renowned for his oration skills and his ability to rally people to a common cause. He also was known for hanging on and not losing courage in the midst of the immense difficulty of administering the Civil War. Many books have been written about our 16th president. An interest in him has not waned over the last 150 years. A website called U gov rates him as the number one most popular US president, most recently published in the second quarter of 2024. His speeches are studied by scholars and students, and his wisdom is recognized in modern times, probably more than when he first uttered them. Along with the Gettysburg Address and his second inaugural address, the House divided speech inspired by Jesus's words became one of the best known of his career. Let's pray. Dear Father, we thank you for elected officials who read the Bible and become inspired by words and messages found there to lead the people. We thank you that Abraham Lincoln used Jesus's words about a house divided to inspire him to fight against the evil of slavery. Please help us to likewise gain wisdom and inspiration from your word to help us all live moral lives. Amen. And now stay tuned for my guest who, like myself, a child who grew up in the land of Lincoln. My guest was a child who grew up in the land of Lincoln, and we have so much in common. I think you'll enjoy our conversation.

Laurie:

And we are back. I am really excited to introduce you to a good friend of mine who is from the land of Lincoln. She and I both grew up and we're+Illinois.Girls for a long time. Here she is. Her name is Beth Dooley. Hi Beth.

Beth:

boy, Lori, I'm Su super excited to be with you today.

Laurie:

Well, thank you so much for joining me, and I knew when I was searching my memory banks for somebody to be a guest on this particular episode, I'm like, it's gotta be somebody who is from Illinois. Of course, I had a lot of people to choose from since I spent so much of my life there.

Beth:

No doubt, no doubt.

Laurie:

Well, why don't you start by telling us a little about yourself and then also how you and I became acquainted with each other.

Beth:

Well, so who am I? So important things first. I'm a wife, I'm a sister, a mother and a grandmother, and most importantly, I have Jesus in my heart.

Laurie:

Hallelujah.

Beth:

And like Lori, I retired from a large insurance company after 37 years of employment. I was blessed with a wonderful career. I had an employer who provided for me and my family, and now I am enjoying this amazing era that we call retirements. So it's fabulous.

Laurie:

Isn't it wonderful I think the thing I love most about retirement is there's time for everything. You're not trying to stuff all those things you love to do into, you know, three hours at night or two days of the weekend.

Beth:

and what I, what I tell people

Laurie:

I.

Beth:

just as busy now as I was when I was working full-time, but I'm busy with the things that I love and enjoy,

Laurie:

and what are some of those things that you love and enjoy?

Beth:

The main thing, like I said, is being a grandmother. I'm fortunate to live super close to three of my grandsons, so I spend time with them. Some of our favorite things are going to the library for story hour or having a sleepover or, they all like to bake with me, which is one of my passions. So that's really awesome.

Laurie:

Oh.

Beth:

also I have found,'cause we relocated with retirement and I have found a group of, uh, ladies and we just like to for lunch, go to the movies, we go to different activities that we find, and those are the things that I really am excited to do and just always didn't have the time when I was working to do'em.

Laurie:

I totally agree. I always say this beautiful retirement is my reward for working hard for so many years.

Beth:

That's right. Well,

Laurie:

Yes.

Beth:

grateful for the fact that, I have two other grandchildren and, they live in the Midwest, so I can still get to see them and I don't have to worry about working around a, work schedule or anything like that, so.

Laurie:

You don't have to count vacation days or PTO paid time off right

Beth:

So.

Laurie:

now. How did I, how did you and I become acquainted?

Beth:

Well, as we've said, we worked at the same company for many years, but really our paths didn't cross there too much until our sons actually became friends. They both, attended a non boundary high school and they became great friends and then through that we also then became friends. That's one of the joys of having kids that get involved in things.'cause then you get to know the parents of their friends. And I think that's how we came to get to know each other. There were several things throughout those high school years that we worked on together and were a part of together. So those were fun.

Laurie:

Yes, and we even went to New York City together to see Hugh Jackman star in the music Man.

Beth:

Yeah. You were a

Laurie:

Yes,

Beth:

for me in New York City, Lori.

Laurie:

my favorite city.

Beth:

Yeah, it was awesome. We had a great time.

Laurie:

Well, I'm so glad that you're here on the podcast and because you did grow up in the land of Lincoln in Illinois like I did, although you grew up a little further north, a lot of the Lincoln stuff is in Springfield, which is the state capital, and I lived about an hour north of there, and I think you lived about another hour north of there. But we took field trips to all the Lincoln stuff when, we were in grade school. Did you guys do that as well?

Beth:

actually probably more like three or four hours north, so if a

Laurie:

Oh, okay.

Beth:

would be a little bit much to go down there, but once, we started our careers, we were then living within an hour or so of the Lincoln sites. So as a family, we then took what we called field trips to Springfield to experience those Lincoln sites. We did visit, the Lincoln Presidential Library that was

Laurie:

Oh,

Beth:

Um.

Laurie:

that is absolutely amazing.

Beth:

created that

Laurie:

W.

Beth:

with the Disney Corporation. So it has, there's a lot of special effects that come out and so forth. our kids were actually very intrigued with everything Lincoln then as a result of visiting there,

Laurie:

yeah. Do you feel connected to Lincoln as a president? Like I do.

Beth:

I do. And because we had been to some of those, Springfield sites, especially we enjoyed New Salem, which was a reconstructed pioneer village that was very similar to what Lincoln lived in. Just walking through that village, you could feel this is what it was like for Mr. Lincoln.

Laurie:

Yeah. So that's where he had his childhood years. Right. And then Springfield is when he was an adult, but before he became president, he owned that, what we know now as the Lincoln home. But yeah, it's completely, decorated with ERA type, furniture and furnishings and it's really a step back into history to go. In the essay I talked about, in 1859, Abraham Lincoln was selected to be the Republican candidate for Senator. So he spoke at the Republican State Convention and in his speech he included the, A house divided cannot stand message. Lincoln's friends and advisors at the time advised him not to include that phrase from the Bible, but Lincoln was determined. What do you think about that? Does this give us a clue of Lincoln's faith?

Beth:

first of all, I do appreciate it when a political candidate shows us who they really are. So we know who we are voting for. So the fact

Laurie:

Yes.

Beth:

made a biblical statement such as that should have told those who are listening, that he is a man of faith and also this is where his beliefs are. This is where his heart is. So I think that is great. And

Laurie:

Yeah.

Beth:

let the voters know what they would be getting with him. That's, I

Laurie:

Yes,

Beth:

important, and especially at the time when there was, unrest in our country The people needed to hear that from him.

Laurie:

I agree.

Beth:

knew he was a

Laurie:

I agree.

Beth:

and he conducted his life in alignment with the guidance that is given in the Bible.

Laurie:

Yeah. One thing I did learn at this Lincoln, presidential library how the newspapers and the press who were covering the election made fun of him because of his appearance. You know, he was so tall, so thin, big ears, all that stuff. They really hounded him for his appearance in the whole election press, which, we kind of see a lot of that now in our press. Just rude and brutal coverage.

Beth:

and it's interesting because back then there really wasn't, the opportunity to do enhancements to your looks either so. I can't imagine that

Laurie:

True.

Beth:

person like that,

Laurie:

yeah, true. I don't know if you, follow modern politics at all, but can you think of any examples in. Past Lincoln's age where someone included a biblical message in their race for office, and if so, how did that turn out?

Beth:

I won't go into detail, but there, have been some notable references to, biblical messages recently in some of our political

Laurie:

Yeah.

Beth:

in the most recent one, we heard comments from Donald Trump that he was chosen by God for the job of president and. We know that that resulted in a win for his election. Then a couple elections ago, back in 2016 in the presidential race, Hillary Clinton quoted a statement from the Methodist Faith, and this caught my attention because I was raised in the Methodist Church. So when she said this, I was like, oh, I have no, I've heard that before. But what she said is, do all the good you can for all the people you can in all the ways you can, as long as ever you can. I thought that really spoke to her and what her goals were going to be for her job as president, she was unsuccessful in that election though. Those are a couple of the more recent, examples that I have remembered.

Laurie:

Well, I'll throw one in. When George Bush, the younger George Bush, was president and he was doing his debates or his speeches prior to becoming president, but it was definitely when he was in office, he would end all his public messages with God Bless America, and I just loved that because. At the time, in the late nineties and early two thousands, I think people were kind of afraid to speak out about what your faith is or your beliefs were because you didn't want to be, exclusive or not inclusive of other faiths or other, feelings. And so to say God bless America, I mean we're one nation under God, we should be able to say God bless America. But that was kind of looked down upon at that time, and it made me feel good that the president, the top guy running our country felt comfortable to say God bless America on his national television and his speeches. So I, I approved of that.

Beth:

family as a whole very much showed where their beliefs and their feelings were, so definitely

Laurie:

Yeah. In the case of when Lincoln gave the speech, he lost the election to be senator, but he was elected to be president two years later. Maybe a manifestation of God's plan. So my question for you is, do you believe that God had a hand in this or in general, do you believe that God has a hand in our elected officials?

Beth:

Well, I believe God has a hand in everything that happens. And that would include our elections. So he determines who is selected to lead at any level of government at that particular time. And I think that's the key. I God knows. What is needed for our country, for our state, for our county at that particular time. And so he puts the right leaders in. and then hopefully we see that the premise that they stood on, and that is what they fulfill as they go through their time in office. And I think our, I

Laurie:

Yeah.

Beth:

officials definitely are guided by the direction that God provides,

Laurie:

I know at our church, every Sunday when we do our, prayers, our pastor will ask God to. WatchOver Donald.

Beth:

Hmm.

Laurie:

She calls him by the first name and oh gosh, now I'm having a memory blank. In South Carolina, our governor is Governor McMaster. Can't remember his first name. But anyway, she'll ask for God to WatchOver him by his first name and, to surround them with godly counsel. And I think that's, good. Hopefully our politicians are in connection with God, but even if they're not specifically, Christians or, strong in faith, we pray that they'll be, surrounded by godly counsel so that they'll have that at least going for them.

Beth:

Our pastor does the same type of thing, not on a, weekly basis, but if there has been something that has erupted in the world, there will be special mention of that it makes me feel like he is pulling together everything that impacts us in our lives. I mean, he

Laurie:

Yes.

Beth:

us, for health. He prays for, success in jobs. He prays for children. You know, everything. But the leaders of our country and so forth are a part of where we're going. So it's important to include

Laurie:

Yes, and it's Henry, it came to me, Henry McMaster, governor of South Carolina. I love listening to him speak on TV because he is got such a strong southern accent. It's just so, so cool to hear. Yeah,

Beth:

with the situation with Lincoln, I think God knew that there was a greater position for him. There was one that,

Laurie:

I think so too. Mm-hmm.

Beth:

there would be something that would provide an even greater impact on our country. So he saved that role of president for Lincoln. And at that particular time in our country, that was so important that Lincoln was there.

Laurie:

He made such a huge, contribution to, the American. Landscape at the time, but also hundreds of years in the future. I mean, he is still considered America's favorite president, like most popular president, and he had such a huge impact, with the Civil War and ending slavery. So yeah, he couldn't have done that as a Illinois Senator.

Beth:

So God knew what our country needed he knew

Laurie:

Yes.

Beth:

was the one that should be in that role to make that happen as president.

Laurie:

Yeah, I agree. In my essay, I had a question for the listeners. So I'll pose it to you for your consideration. Have you ever lost something that you truly wanted and worked hard for only to later gain something else that you never dreamed of, but turned out much better for you? Kind of like Lincoln.

Beth:

Well, yes. At the beginning of our conversation, I mentioned that, you know, recently retired. So prior to my retirement, my husband and I had been searching for, okay, where's that place that we want to be for the long term? Neither of our children were staying in Illinois and. Didn't have parents left in Illinois, so we're like, well, the world is ours. Where do we wanna go? So we did a lot of research. We visited many areas that bubbled up as a prospective retirement locations for us. During about a six month time period, we kinda landed on, central to western Tennessee. We thought that's where we wanted to be.

Laurie:

A lot of people love there.

Beth:

We were liking the area, we were liking the activities that were there. We felt very welcomed there. So we thought this is good. And it was gonna put us about halfway between where our two kids were going to, probably be at least. At that particular time. we searched for properties and over the course of like another six months, we found several that we were interested in, a couple of them to the point that we actually were ready to put bids on. One of'em, we ended up losing it because somebody got in there before we did, and it was kind of heartbreaking. But again, as I believe there's a reason for it. And then there was another one that we were super psyched about. And we put a contract on, into inspection and it fell through because there were some things that were uncovered that we were not comfortable with, right about that time. so that's kind of the bad news. Now here's what, here comes a good news. So about that time when that contract fell through, our son had accepted a job in southeast Alabama. When he did he and his wife asked us to join them in this area, which is known as the Wiregrass. They said, you know, do you wanna come down to Alabama? my first question was to my daughter-in-law was. Do you really want me that close? And they said, yeah. And as it turned out, I said, well, we can look for some properties, that'll be, within an hour or so. And they said, no, we'd really like to, be an a TV right away from you. And again, I was like, really, this is, this is what you all have decided on. And they said, yeah, this is what we'd really like. So we were of course thrilled it gave us a destination. And for me, it gave me my next step then, this is where we're

Laurie:

Right.

Beth:

I'm gonna help us build our life down there. So,

Laurie:

Oh, that's awesome.

Beth:

now we live on 70 acres, son and,

Laurie:

Oh my gosh.

Beth:

Yeah, and our son and his family have a home. And we have a home. Then also my father-in-law, joined us. He built, a cottage on the land, and so he's here. So at this point, we have four generations living on the property in three different homes. We also have a barn. We have two RV pads. We have a swimming pool. It really fell into place as far as what we were looking for. And this is gonna make us sound really old, but we sit on our rocking chairs in our front porch in the evening as the sun is going down. And we're just super, super happy and. We feel like, from a family perspective, this is awesome. But I also feel like we've brought, a neat little addition to this area and the friends that we've met and so forth too. And we

Laurie:

um, that sounds wonderful.

Beth:

of land, so if we have any other family members that wanna come, we've got plenty of land to build on.

Laurie:

Like a fifth generation.

Beth:

be glad for that. But for sure that one of the best parts for me is the fact that I've got four grandsons living a quarter of a mile from me, and I can

Laurie:

Yeah.

Beth:

plane and go see my other two little grandchildren and give them the snuggles that they need as well. So, truly blessed, truly blessed. are we sad we're not in Tennessee? Absolutely not, because I, I feel that, this is where God wanted us to be,

Laurie:

I can just hear him saying, hold on, I got this.

Beth:

Don't go so fast because he, I mean, he probably said, Beth, I know you're not very patient with these things'cause you wanna know what that next step is, but just give me some time. Let me, let me

Laurie:

Yeah.

Beth:

into his decision making and then, it'll all fall into place for you.

Laurie:

Yeah. I'm so happy for you and Tom. I mean, that's just a wonderful special retirement, and you'll have such an impact on, well, all of your grandchildren, but especially the ones who are just an a TV right away.

Beth:

Yep. Yep.

Laurie:

That's that's great.

Beth:

unusual for them. They've got, little gas powered Jeeps and so forth and we'll hear it coming up to the front door and all of a sudden the door opens and we mama, and it's time for a snack. So I hop into action.

Laurie:

You'll be so close to them as they're growing up, and that's very special. So congratulations.

Beth:

Again, I believe everything works out the way it's supposed to. Just give God time to show

Laurie:

Yeah, and don't lose faith.

Beth:

right.

Laurie:

Well, thank you so much for all of your insight today. Is there anything that you wanted to add about this topic that you hadn't covered yet?

Beth:

think it's awesome, Lori, that you made the connection with Abraham Lincoln into this series that you're doing because I mean, a lot of times people stray away from the political aspect, but we can't. Holy, avoid that, but also

Laurie:

yeah.

Beth:

God is there as well. So it came together very nicely,

Laurie:

Oh, well thank you. And you're a big part of that, so I appreciate all your insight, your research and your, willingness to share. Well, I am gonna go ahead and end it there, but I am gonna tell you that I'd like to visit the compound there in Alabama. So I'll be looking for a time that I can make that trip.

Beth:

It's a little bit of a drive, but if you wanna hop on a plane, I'll come get you at the airport.

Laurie:

Okay. Sounds good. Thanks again, Beth,

and that's it for today. Thank you very much for being here with me on the year I read the Bible Podcast. We'll be back with another episode next week. If you enjoy this podcast, please do all the normal things to spread the word like it. Review it, share it with your friends. If you are interested in additional the year, I read the Bible resources such as the book, the video channel, and the blog, I will certainly include the links in the show notes, and I'd love to hear about your own journey to read the Bible cover to cover. Have you done it or are you doing it right now? Please reach out to me and let me know how it's going. Until next time, it's Lori Larson with the year I read the Bible. Bye.

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Laurie Larsen

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