The Year I Read the Bible with Laurie Larsen

Episode 28: Did John the Baptist Know Jesus ... Or Didn't He?

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Learn a little more about the unique character of John the Baptist.  God chose him to prepare the way for Jesus on earth, but of course, as all of us are, he was human. And to me, he came across as a little strange.  And a little uncertain.  Especially when he said things about Jesus such as "I didn't know him."  Huh?  He was related to Jesus, and I assume they knew each other growing up.

Anyway, listen to my thoughts on the matter and make up your own mind.  Then, I welcome back my lovely guest from last week, Dianne Miley.  She shares some wonderful insight on John to add to our understanding of this challenging Bible character.

Here's Dianne's website if you want to learn more about her books.

And here's that bonus episode I mention in the interview that tells you all about my fiction work.  I released it on December 30.

Dianne:

and yeah. Very good. Thank you.

Laurie:

Thank you so much. Well listen, thank you for your time today. We really appreciate your insights and I will load up the, episode notes with your website. If people wanna find you, they know where to go and your Amazon author page and, I wish you the best and look forward to seeing you next time.

Dianne:

you, Lori.

Laurie:

Thank you.

Dianne:

you.

Laurie:

Thank you so much. Well listen, thank you for your time today. We really appreciate your insights and I will load up the, episode notes with your website. If people wanna find you, they know where to go and your Amazon author page and, I wish you the best and look forward to seeing you next time.

Dianne:

you, Lori.

Laurie:

Thank you.

Hi, I'm your host Lori Larson, and this is the year I read the Bible. Welcome a Lifelong Christian. I thought I was familiar with the Bible, but in 2023 I accepted the challenge of reading the whole thing, cover to cover. Whenever I encountered something I didn't understand or wanted to learn more. I jotted it down, but I kept reading to stay on schedule. Then I reached the end Imagine Confetti rating down on me, and a huge sigh of relief. I had 40 topics to research in 2024. I started diving into all those topics. I did research, I wrote blogs and I shared them with whoever might wanna learn too. And in 2025, the project continues. I published a book containing all my essays, and now a podcast. Is there something you can learn from that dusty book that sits on all of our shelves? Yes. Yes, there is. Let's dive into The year I read the Bible. Hello listeners. Do you believe it is well into January in the year 2026. Now. Boy, it just amazes me how time flies. I know it's a cliche, but it's certainly true and especially looking back at the year. 2023 when I was reading the Bible cover to cover. And then the year 2024 when I started doing my study, looking into the different topics that I had documented during my read and really digging in so that I could understand and learn and remember more. And then my figuring out that. Hey, it'd be good to write a blog and then post it week by week on my website, and doing the corresponding videos on my YouTube channel. And then in 2025, when I took all of these, I gathered them all up as I finished them and I put them together as a published book called The Year I read the Bible that came out. Right before Easter of 2025, and then my podcast that started in June, which has been going every single Tuesday since June of 2025, and we're really not that far from finishing. We're now on episode 28, and I have 40 episodes altogether, so if you look at the numbers, I'll only have, um, a dozen. Yeah, a dozen after this. So I think I'll wrap it up right around Easter of 2026. So if you're enjoying these essays, please stay listening. Please tell your friends, and after I stop recording new ones, of course you can still go back and listen to whichever ones that you want. So anyway, let's get into today's episode. The essay is called, did John the Baptist know Jesus or didn't he? We've talked about John the Baptist before. In fact, I previously recorded an episode about the interesting circumstances of his birth called the role Zechariah and Elizabeth play in the Jesus story. Look it up in the list of episodes. We know that John's mother, Elizabeth, and Jesus's mother Mary, were related, maybe second cousins or distant aunt Niece relationship since they're of different generations. We know Mary traveled a hundred miles when she was newly pregnant to visit with Elizabeth, who was also pregnant. And we know that both expectant mothers had been visited by angels to inform them of the missions that their sons would execute in God's holy plan. Now we fast forward to John as an adult whose purpose was to prepare the way on Earth for Jesus's coming as prophesied by Isaiah. Isaiah 40 verse three. I will send my messenger ahead of you who will prepare your way, A voice of one calling in the wilderness. Prepare the way for the Lord. Make straight paths for him. John took his mission seriously and we find out in the gospels that he went to the wilderness wearing clothing of camel's, hair, a leather belt around his waist, and he ate only locust and wild honey. So kind of an unusual dude. He wandered around with his own set of disciples, preaching about repentance for the forgiveness of sins, and of course, he performed baptisms. The people were so thirsty for a Messiah. They asked him if he was the one, which of course he denied. Eventually, the day arrived when John came face to face with Jesus. John 1 29 tells a story this way. The next day, John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, look, the lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world, this is the one I meant when I said, A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me. Yes, this makes sense. John's second cousin, Jesus, who he's known about through family lore his whole life as being the son of God, is now here in front of him. John's done his job preparing the way, and now Jesus is about to kick off his own ministry. But wait, let's read further. Starting in verse 31. I myself did not know him. But the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel. Then John gave this testimony. I saw the spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him, and I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, the man on whom you see the spirit come down and remain. Is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit, huh? In this passage, John says twice. I myself did not know him, but weren't they distant cousins hadn't. His mother told him exactly what the angel had told her about why she was impregnated at an old age, and exactly what her miraculous son was going to do for God's kingdom. Because it's such a beautiful story. Let's take a look at the event that John was describing in that John 1 31 passage, three of the gospels. Tell us the story because it was such a significant event. Here's Luke's version, Luke 3, 21 and 22. When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove and a voice came from heaven. You are my son, whom I love with you. I am well pleased. Isn't that a lovely scene? I would be absolutely blown away by the voice from Heaven heard by the entire crowd, and especially the loving words God bestowed. And in John's gospel, it sounds like John the Baptist, was instructed by God himself that he would know who the Messiah was by the presence of the Holy Spirit. The dove and God's voice booming from heaven was his indication that Jesus was the one he was preparing for. Prior to that, he only knew he was preparing the way for Messiah. Now, he was assured that the Messiah was indeed his second cousin. Jesus, when he said, I didn't know him, I don't necessarily take that at face value. I think he was more saying, I didn't know it was him. When I think about this, I imagine that his mother had told him the story about her long ago visit from Mary, and how they had both been visited by angels and informed about their son's places in God's plan. But have you ever had a son. Ha. Have you ever tried to tell your teenage son something that he found hard to believe as a parent? Have you ever tried to convince your rebellious young man of anything? Remember John ran off to the wilderness wearing weird clothes and eating only locust and honey? So my point is, John maybe didn't want to take anyone's word for it. Rumor and hearsay weren't good enough. He was determined to follow God's plan exactly as God prescribed to him. Until then, he'd do his job step by step without knowing the whole story, and I love that approach. We see cases of that all throughout the Bible. God calling on imperfect people to carry out his plan without revealing the end of the plan until it was time to know. I am currently in a Bible study about the prophet Elijah, and that's one of the points we learned about him. God had great big plans for Elijah, but he only revealed them step by step. Elijah had the faith to act upon that step and then wait for God's next order. But what about the next time in the gospel stories that John the Baptist acts like he doesn't know who Jesus is. In Matthew 11, starting in verse two, we see when John, who was in prison heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples to ask him, are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else? What, what happened to John Being convinced within a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was the foretold Messiah when he witnessed the dove landing on him and he heard God's voice proclaiming him to be so. Scholars believed that a year had passed between the miraculous baptism and John's question, a year of Jesus actively preaching and traveling around. And performing miracles in that year. Did John lose the faith? Why did John ask that question? In my opinion, there are several factors, all of which point to John's human weaknesses. First of all, he was in jail. I can't imagine that first century jails were very comfortable. Most likely cement floors and little food, no exercise and limited visitors. He'd been wrenched away from his job, which was God's plan for him, and he was good at it. He'd had followers and a role of importance. Now all of that was gone. All he had was time to sit there in a cell and be miserable. Life was pretty awful. Also the reason he was in jail was pretty ridiculous. John was put in prison because he decided to lecture town rulers about some of their life choices. See if I can get this Bible age soap opera, correct. Matthew 14 indicates that John the Baptist was placed in prison by Herod Anus as a result of John condemning Herod for having divorced his wife and then marrying Herods, the divorced wife of Herod passes half, brother Philip. Knowing John's dedication to the mission, I imagine he felt like the punishment didn't fit the crime. And was preventing him from getting back to work. He was practically starved when he got to jail. Remember his self-inflicted diet before he went to jail. It wasn't like he was a healthy, well-nourished guy when he originally got thrown into jail in the first place. And I know from the occasional times I'm feeling hungry that everything looks a little bleecker and more desperate. Than when I'm properly fed. And lastly, he held a different view of the Messiah's role than Jesus did. There are indications in the Bible that John had a different understanding of the role of the Messiah. After all, God told him to prepare the way, but God didn't tell him exactly how Jesus would go about his own job. Luke three seven shares some of John's own method of speaking to followers. John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, you brute of vipers who warned you to flee from the coming wrath, produce fruit. In keeping with repentance. We have clues also that Jesus was aware of the type of Messiah the people expected him to be too. John six 14 says, Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself. So now we have a little better understanding of how John's human traits may have caused him to lose the faith. A little bit about Jesus. How did Jesus respond to John's question? Was he dismayed, angry, insulted? No. He calmly told John's disciples to go tell him what he'd been doing since they last saw each other, the preaching, the teaching, the miracles. And he also praised John for the hard work he'd done for the Kingdom. Verse 11. Truly, I tell you, among those born of women, there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist, yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven. Is greater than he. If I had been working hard, spreading the good news for a year, and my most important partner publicly expressed doubt in my abilities, I would've been angry, wouldn't you? But not Jesus. He not only wasn't angry, he praised John and let everyone know what a great job he'd done. Understanding John the Baptist's human shortcomings. And also understanding Jesus's kind reaction to them. Give me comfort that when we mess up, as we often do, I can imagine Jesus's response. He's not angry, he's patient and kind. He wants us to succeed, and he reminds us of all the good work we've already done. But he encourages us to get up, shake ourselves off, and try again. We're human, just like John the Baptist, just like Judas, just like Peter. We make mistakes, but there's still room for us in the kingdom with the everlasting grace of Jesus over us. Let's pray. Dear God, thank you for this lesson and this reminder of how you can and do use imperfect people. To perform great work in your kingdom. Thank you for forgiving us when we make mistakes and always continuing to love us. Amen. And now listeners, stay tuned. I have another conversation with my friend and author, Diane Miley, who was on the podcast last week, where last week we talked about baptism in general. And this week we will talk in more depth about John the Baptist. Stay tuned.

Laurie:

Well, welcome back listeners. I hope you enjoyed the essay, and I'm really happy to announce that if you were around for last week's episode, you met our guest, Diane Miley. If you weren't around for last week's episode, I know you're gonna wanna go check it out so that you can learn more about Diane herself, but also listen to our topic on baptism. But for this. I'm so excited to welcome you back, Diane. Diane Miley.

Dianne:

Thank you so much for having me, Lori. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.

Laurie:

as I mentioned, we're staying on the topic of baptism from last week, but we're looking at John the Baptist today. We know that he was a relative of Jesus's most likely a second cousin, and although he and Jesus didn't live in the same town growing. They knew each other and they were close in age. Both of their mothers were visited by angels and informed about the roles that their two sons would play in the whole story of the Messiah. But in John one, when John and Jesus come face to face for the first time in the gospels, John says a couple times I did not know him. What do you make of that?

Dianne:

Well, I think possibly John was just referring to having not met before, but maybe he was surprised by Jesus in some way. How he was just ordinary or maybe how he was not ordinary. John knew that Jesus was the Messiah. He had been taught that by his parents, and maybe he was surprised by how humble Jesus was, how kind and gentle rather than king, like, or you know, that the Jews were expecting their Messiah to be a king and maybe he was expecting. Someone different. Maybe he was amazed at how average seemed, who was his relative, but that he could be the son of God. So he must have been maybe a little confused or conflicted or unsure, I would imagine.

Laurie:

Or he was a rookie at that point. He was a newbie to the whole thing and he sure had a lot to learn right as he continued on doing his role that God had for him. And you know, you made the comment, maybe they hadn't actually met and that would not necessarily surprise me because I think the. Distance between where we know Jesus grew up and we know John grew up, it was about a hundred miles. And there's no motor vehicles and, a hundred miles is a long trek for people on foot or, on an animal. So maybe they didn't, you know, get together every Thanksgiving or

Dianne:

Right,

Laurie:

know, every major holiday. So,

Dianne:

maybe if they had, they may have still been children'cause they were fairly young at this time. So.

Laurie:

Yeah, that's good. I love trying to use, mystery solving, techniques to figure some of this stuff out about the Bible. It just helps me to understand it more.

Dianne:

Right.

Laurie:

I know that you are the mother of a son just like I am, and in my essay I drew some parallels of Elizabeth, who was John the Baptist mother, trying to convince her son what his role is and who he's doing it for, and maybe a rebellious or unconvinced son not buying into it right away. What are your thoughts on that?

Dianne:

Well, I never thought about that before, before you asked me that question, but, I know that most young men want to choose their own profession. They wanna make a name for themselves and find their own way. Most young men don't wanna go into their dad's company or let alone being told what to do by their mom. So, I could imagine he probably, had his own ideas of what he wanted to do, but, John's mother was sending him on a mission that he didn't ask for. He was supposed to prepare the way for the Messiah and he must have been pretty overwhelmed by that responsibility, maybe even a little resentful. I wonder whether he went into the wilderness to run away from that huge responsibility to prepare for it, or maybe a little bit of both. God had called him and I'm sure God was. Speaking to his heart during this time, in the end, he rose to the task,

Laurie:

yes, he did. Well, I kind of think of him as a rebellious teenager because of his, strange habits, like wearing the, hairy, clothing items and eating, honey and locus, isn't it?

Dianne:

Yeah.

Laurie:

so yeah, he, he showed signs early on of being a little bit rebellious. So in Matthew 11, we see John the Baptist in prison for insulting the local leadership and he sends some of his followers to go ask Jesus if he is the one they're waiting for or if they should look for someone else. In the essay, I list some possible reasons behind John's confusion. What? What do you think about that?

Dianne:

Well, I agreed with what you had said. He was in prison, he was probably hungry, he wasn't being treated well. and he may have even regretted confronting some of the people who had put him in prison. and then he may have been thinking if he had done the right thing, why was he being punished? And if Jesus was the son of God. Why didn't God protect him? Why is he in prison? So he may have been having all of those kind of thoughts. After all, Jesus was his relative. And like I said before, they had been waiting for centuries for the Messiah. And so I think he may have been maybe second guessing a little bit, second guessing apparently, if he was saying, do we need to look for someone else, maybe second guessing his role, it must have been really difficult to accept. Even now with, some of the prophecy and seeing things happen the world, and I think, is this really happening the way the Bible told us this was going to happen? And so I, I can from that perspective, kind of imagine an inkling of what he must have been thinking.

Laurie:

Yeah. Well, and, he was in jail because he kind of stuck his nose into the family life of the local leaders. Herod married his, his brother-in-law's ex-wife or, or something like that. And he, brought them up, telling them that, they weren't doing the right thing. He was in jail more because of a political reason he probably was an annoyance to Herod. Herod didn't wanna let him get away with it I agree with what you're saying about how he probably regretted it after he got in there and had time to think about it. It's like, why, did I stick my nose in there? That doesn't really matter, in the scheme of things. And now here I am away from my disciples and away from doing the important work that I was doing.

Dianne:

Yeah. And then, he was human too. And then again, Satan I'm sure was there whispering lies and discouragement in his ear because Satan doesn't want him out there, doing God's work. So I'm sure that had something to do with it too.

Laurie:

Yeah, I did have a interesting conversation with a friend of mine about this particular verse where John the Baptist is in jail. He sent his followers to go ask Jesus if he's the one we're waiting for or should we look for someone else. This friend of mine had an interesting insight into this, is that. Just like Jesus had his 12 that he was teaching and mentoring and preparing to take up the, cause after he was gone. So did John the Baptist. John the Baptist had disciples and followers and I'm sure he was a mentor to them. And since he had gotten himself into jail, he could no longer. Mentor those people or train them or educate them. So by sending them on this, chore or this errand to go find Jesus and ask him this question, he knew that they would be in the presence of Jesus. In, their despair of having lost him, and probably being a little bit confused now, like, wait a minute here. I'm supposed to be following this guy, but he's in prison. What do I do with myself now by giving them this errand? John put them in front of Jesus and gave them the opportunity to talk to him. So maybe Jesus just being in his presence would have encouraged them and made them feel so much better about the way things were and, okay, we're, maybe losing the battle over here, but we're still involved in God's work. So I, I like that thought.

Dianne:

Yeah. That's really good.

Laurie:

So when John raised his doubts through his disciples, Jesus's reaction to those doubts gives me comfort for how Jesus might react to some of my own doubting. He wasn't angry, he was patient and he was kind, and he raised up all the great work that John had done already. Isn't it wonderful? To serve such a loving leader and savior. Can you expand on that at all?

Dianne:

Yes. Jesus knows our human weakness because he felt it too as God, but then becoming human as well. And he was hungry and he was even tempted and he knows how difficult it was for him to deny that temptation as God. He knew, what, a human would go through and Jesus did appreciate God's work and. He knows how much encouragement we need as humans and so he was happy to give that to John. I recently read a devotion that shared how God understands our emotions because he created them. And I never thought about that before, that God actually created our emotions. So he totally understands how we and how much encouragement we need.

Laurie:

you really can't catch him by surprise, can you?

Dianne:

right.

Laurie:

Also, I love leaning back on the reality in the Bible that God doesn't ask the people who are perfect to do work for him. He doesn't choose the qualified. He qualifies the people that he. Chooses to do his work. So we're gonna make mistakes, we always do. But that doesn't mean that we don't have a place in the kingdom and that we can't, make a difference. And that's true with John the Baptist here and you know,

Dianne:

Yeah.

Laurie:

that.

Dianne:

His strength is, is more apparent in our weakness. You know, it

Laurie:

Right.

Dianne:

that it's by him, that we are completing these tasks, not by our own. Because it's obvious that we could never do it on our own,

Laurie:

That's, so good. That's so ironic that you brought that up because that was covered in our, sermon this past Sunday. That was, in one of the letters that Paul wrote. I don't remember which one, first Corinthians maybe. But yeah, my glory becomes more evident through. Weakness, something like that. I'm getting the wrong, uh, yeah,

Dianne:

and, and

Laurie:

yeah,

Dianne:

perfect example because he was killing Christians and he was qualified as a Jewish leader, but he was not qualified as a Christian at all. He was actually murdering Christians. So the only

Laurie:

yeah.

Dianne:

that transformation could have happened was through

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

of God. it just made

Laurie:

Yeah.

Dianne:

more evident that that's how God shows his glory and proves to us that he is, there and he is all powerful.

Laurie:

In the Bible time and time and time again, God chooses the least likely. This past summer we did a Bible study on the women in Jesus's genealogy. There's five women, and one of'em was Rahab.

Dianne:

Yeah.

Laurie:

It was a prostitute in Jericho, and at the time that the Israelites were finally getting their act together after wandering around for 40 years in the wilderness, God. Was encouraging them to go and fight for the land that he had promised them. And the first stop was Jericho, but there was a wall, a stone wall around Jericho that they would have to, get through in order to go and capture their city and to claim it as God's promise and. Rahab, the prostitute, that's how she's referred to in all of the Old Testament Rahab, the prostitute

Dianne:

Yeah.

Laurie:

was instrumental. If it weren't for Rahab, it wouldn't have happened. They wouldn't have gotten the walls of Jericho to falls. So, would you think that that was who God used to start off? Such an important mission,

Dianne:

right. First of all, a woman and then a prostitute

Laurie:

right.

Dianne:

of all things. Yeah, like King David too, he was the youngest, he was the smallest. He was out in the field with the sheep, and they didn't

Laurie:

Shepherds.

Dianne:

him as a potential king,

Laurie:

He had so many brothers that were older and bigger and stronger. Yeah.

Dianne:

And no, they said none of these. It

Laurie:

Yeah.

Dianne:

Yeah.

Laurie:

and that continues to give us hope that we can have a place too.

Dianne:

right.

Laurie:

Well, great. Is there anything else that you wanna add, do you have any books coming out? Anything that you're working on at the moment?

Dianne:

Well, I have two books completed that I've been sending queries out to agents and I have a publisher that I've actually spoke with at a conference that I'm, waiting to hear back from. So I have those two that are completed. I have the short story navine that I just. come out, I'm going to try

Laurie:

Yep.

Dianne:

another one of those out after Christmas at the beginning of the year. So I think in the meantime, while I'm waiting to get the bigger books published, I'm gonna try to come out with some smaller things, pretty soon after the holidays and everything, I'm gonna start working on the next novel.

Laurie:

That's

Dianne:

on.

Laurie:

exciting.

Dianne:

it is.

Laurie:

And your books are so heartwarming and

Dianne:

thank

Laurie:

you, you really know how to wrench the emotions out of the characters and the story, and the readers will always definitely follow your characters.

Dianne:

you.

Laurie:

yeah, it's great.

Dianne:

Thank you. Well, yours too.

Laurie:

right.

Dianne:

your stories as well, Lori.

Laurie:

Oh, thank you so much. I think a lot of people who listen to the podcast. Followed me as a fiction writer, but I imagine that there are people that found the podcast because they're interested in Bible study and, Bible insight that may not even be aware that I write fiction. So, yeah, I thought about doing a little bonus episode, just talking a little bit about each of my fiction books and series.

Dianne:

I love the beach settings and always heartwarming as well, and yeah. Very good. Thank you.

Laurie:

Thank you so much. Well listen, thank you for your time today. We really appreciate your insights and I will load up the, episode notes with your website. If people wanna find you, they know where to go and your Amazon author page and, I wish you the best and look forward to seeing you next time.

Dianne:

you, Lori.

Laurie:

Thank you.

and that's it for today. Thank you very much for being here with me on the year I read the Bible Podcast. We'll be back with another episode next week. If you enjoy this podcast, please do all the normal things to spread the word like it. Review it, share it with your friends. If you are interested in additional the year, I read the Bible resources such as the book, the video channel, and the blog, I will certainly include the links in the show notes, and I'd love to hear about your own journey to read the Bible cover to cover. Have you done it or are you doing it right now? Please reach out to me and let me know how it's going. Until next time, it's Lori Larson with the year I read the Bible. Bye.

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