Ep. 18 - Jennifer Markin, Henry Ford College

This episode of The Pickup Meeting kicks off with peak banter, including an impossible Indiana football season, shared indifference toward cars, and the kind of sports fandom that only comes once in a lifetime. Kevin and Brody then welcome an incredible guest, Jennifer Markin, Director of Advising at Henry Ford College, who brings warmth, humor, and deep insight into advising, leadership, and student success in the community college context.

Jennifer shares what pulled her back into advising leadership and how intentional staff development and mission-driven work can transform student experiences. Along the way, the conversation hits solo music festivals, parenting moments you don’t want to rush past, Metro Detroit food gems, hidden talents, and a lightning round that somehow includes Barack Obama, Janis Joplin, and cereal for dinner. Thoughtful, funny, and deeply human, this episode is a reminder that the best pickup meetings are the ones where learning and laughter coexist.

*The Pickup Meeting is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook! Also, subscribe to the Adventures in Advising YouTube Channel!

Have a question? Want to chat? E-mail us at thepickupmeeting@gmail.com!

Connect with Brody and Kevin on LinkedIn. 

Transcript

Kevin Thomas  
And away we go. Welcome to The Pickup Meeting. It's February. Yeah, awesome. I know I'm so excited before we go too far into the show in our recording timeframe. I have to bring this up, because if I don't, Brody will, yes, Indiana won the national championship. Brody, your alma mater did it in football, football, not basket weaving, not lacrosse. I don't know what else they're good at.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
National Championships in soccer. They've won some swimming national championships, some tennis, but it's a long time since they even sniffed a national championship in football. In fact, they've never done it.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, it was quite the season, and I know from our frequent conversations that you were riding a roller coaster of emotion for a team that lost zero games, but you did it. You did it. Man, they couldn't have won it without you. I fanned the heck out of it. You. You did throw some fandom down and said, What now fandom? Yeah, now we got a repeat. Oh, geez, hey. So look at this. When you look at this as as as an alum, I I've not experienced this, right? It's not anything that I've been a part of. What does that mean?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Look, I went to school at Indiana University, from 1989 to 1993 and aside from 1967 when they went to the Rose Bowl, those are probably the four best years that Indiana had in football. In my adult life, they played competitively against some top 10 teams. But for me, it just when you root for a team to be good your whole life, and they're never good, it's just really, really hard. And then to see what they did this year, 16 and 0, beat all, all competitors, and really, most of those competitors, handily. It's just an amazing feeling. I don't know that it changes me. But if you love sports and you love a great sports story, what happened this year with that team and that program is pretty amazing. I mean, 60 Minutes did a story on Indiana football. 60 minutes like real journalism.

Kevin Thomas  
Kevin, so I'm going to tell a story, and you can jump in if you need to, but just don't. So for folks that don't know about Indiana football, Brody's saying not good. And let's just for a moment say that for the last well, forever Indiana's been trash. They've been garbage. They've been the worst major program in all of football history, until this year, when Northwestern surpassed them and being terrible, but like, they've been the worst football team in the history of football teams, and the worst they won a national title. And so that's just to say, and so that I can say it for a third time, Indiana was garbage. And so whatever your feelings are about Indiana, in that case, they were garbage fourth time. And so like for them to not be garbage anymore and to be the national champion. I'm just so happy for you, Brody, as an alum and as a fan and and just that you got to experience that with all of your Hoosier family.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, you know the Mendoza stories pretty interesting. I love what Kurt Signetti brought to the table too. As a coach, they talked about themselves as being misfits. And it is. It's a great story about, you know, it's not always about the five star recruits. It's not always about what people think are the best players. Sometimes it's about building a team and believing in yourself and doing the right the right things, and doing all the hard work. And, I mean, I'm pretty happy for a guy like Kurt signetti, who spent his entire career, kind of as an assistant coach and a head coach at smaller schools and and I'm pretty proud that Indiana gave him a chance to get this done. It is pretty amazing. It is the greatest college football story ever. There's no story in the history of college football that eclipses what Indiana University has done over the last couple of years.

Kevin Thomas  
I agree. Speaking of good stories, great stories, amazing stories. You don't care what vehicle you drive.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I don't if I could drive the same car for the rest of my life. I would do it. Yeah, I have my 2016 Honda CRV. Yeah. About. 135,000 miles on it. The only thing I'm really missing is heated seats. I was spoiled. I drove around this Honda Odyssey for 10 or so years, and it had heated seats. And many vans are great, but if I could just ride this Honda CRV out into the sunset till I'm dead and gone, I'd just as soon do it, but I also learned something about you. Kevin Thomas, listen, you agree with me on this. I don't care. I don't care at all. Yeah, just way overrated.

Kevin Thomas  
I drive a maxima. And if you said, What year is it? I would say one of them. If you said, what are the features of it, people would be like, well, is that a CV? And I'm like, I have a resume, you know? Like, I don't know what you want for me. Before that, I drove a Prius. I liked it because it didn't require me to fill up with gas a lot. And when it doesn't work, I take it to a shop. But within that, I'll say, I've never bought a car before.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yes, you didn't let me share that. That blew my mind when you told me that yesterday. How is that possible?

Kevin Thomas  
I don't know. Like, I think that at 16 I got my dad's truck, and then when the engine burnt out on that and I don't know if that's because I had a heavy foot at that time or what. I don't know, but when it burnt out, I went on to a different vehicle that I am positive, that my parents probably got me Hashtag blessed, right? And so then it's like, and then at some point I will say, you know, after getting married to my wife, Tony, she took care of that and handled it, and she cares about which vehicles we get. I don't, and so she tries to talk cars with me sometimes she knows that that's a an endless battle. It's never, I'm never gonna be able to be like, Uh huh, yeah. Listen, as long as the seats are comfortable, I don't care.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
We are in agreement, that's for sure. Yeah, I bought my first car, Kevin Thomas in like 1986 or 87.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, I was six or seven at that time. It was great.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
a 1981 Chevy Chevette. Oh, that's fancy. I bought it with my newspaper money. I think it was like $2,200.

Kevin Thomas  
You made $2,200 delivering newspapers?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I did well, my brother and I think split the cost. He was 18 months younger than me, so I think we each put in like $1,100.

Kevin Thomas  
Okay, yeah. Well, it's not really often I feel like, or it's maybe the assumption that you get two guys together, at least one of them is going to want to talk cars. That is not the case for you. No, no, yeah, hey, so next week, yes, I get to see you. Administrators, Institute. Administrators, Institute 2026, I'm very excited about that? Yeah, in Kansas City, it's a city that I don't know a lot about, but it was in Kansas City last year, and I just recall the food being delicious.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yes, it's a great city barbecue, for sure.

Kevin Thomas  
And this year we don't have to deal with that Kansas City Chiefs nonsense that's going on.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That is true. I can I think we can both agree that's a good thing. That's a positive for us. Jennifer Rush may call Matt Markin and say we have to edit out that part.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, here we go. Let's do some more. The Chiefs are garbage, just like Indiana. Okay, was, oh, it was sorry, my fault. I'm alienating our entire Indiana audience.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You are. It's a big audience. Remember, Indiana University has the largest living alumni base in the country.

Kevin Thomas  
Listeners, this is what my life has been like in communicating with Brody for the last week? Did you see this press conference clip? Did you see this post by this person? Did you see that Caitlin Clark sent out a tweet about Indiana? It's been endless.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Folks. Act like they say. They say. Act like you've done it before. Here's the deal, Kevin, it's never been done before. I don't know how to act.

Kevin Thomas  
And so apparently, it's act like a kid at Christmas for rarely, yes, well deserved. Okay, administrators Institute. I love this event.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It's amazing. I think the energy that administrators bring to the event. I love interacting with our faculty. We have such a committed group. I love the idea of committed time to solving problems and issues that administrators are facing. It's really a tremendous event. And I'm not just speaking as a faculty member. I've I've been. Two time participant, and I got something different out of it. Both times I went in 2005 when I became first time administrator, and just loved kind of building the Academic Advising Center in that space like I was creating a center from scratch during that time, 2009 I focused on putting together a professional development program for the area that I oversaw, and both times, I just got so much out of the institute. And now, as a faculty member, I just really love being able to help and guide folks through their their action plans. It's an amazing event, and it's one of these events that I look at.

Kevin Thomas  
As as the faculty member, I always get to the end of it, and I think, Oh, I hope that the participants got more than I did, because I feel like my cup is overflowing at that moment. And and then I talked to participants, and we hear things that are, this was the best opportunity, the best development we needed this time to get away and actually focus on what we needed to do when we got back to campus, and not just kick that can down the road for six more months or a year or two years, and then the learning that happens from just the sessions. I think because our institute is pretty nimble, we can hit topics in a more timely manner, and I think that's helpful for administrators, because the higher education world is constant and revolving, and so allows us to be more ready for the needs that they have. And so I think that really helps to make it a positive event and and beyond that, I'm excited to see you and the rest of the faculty that we're going to be teaching with this year?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I always, I always get into that first meeting on Sunday before we get going and and I'm sitting there going, Whoo, I don't know that I belong here. There are some great faculty members with just tremendous experience and expertise. So I'm always in awe a little bit of, kind of stepping into that space and so many of our participants, I learned from so many of our participants, too, just new ways of thinking and the problems and challenges that they bring to the table and their focus on solving those problems and challenges. Such a great event. I can't wait to see it.

Kevin Thomas  
Absolutely looking forward to it. And speaking of our participants, yes, our guest today was at the administrators Institute last year, and I got a chance to connect with her, and so we're really excited to bring Jennifer Markin onto the show. Jennifer is somebody that I know and have really been connected with for a while, building innovative programs, leading student success initiatives at a variety of institutions over her career. Currently, she's at Henry Ford College in Michigan, so that you don't have to google that while you're driving folks and but she's also somebody that I've had the privilege of working with many years ago at Western Kentucky University, our paths cross for, I think, about four years, housing and advising and retention things over a period of time. And so welcome to the show.

Jennifer Markin  
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Kevin Thomas  
We're excited to have you and and so let's start at our beginning, at least. Let's go there, right like that. I know you from Western Kentucky. We're Hill toppers. We were there, I don't know, 15 years ago, 12 years ago, something that ranged, gosh, we're getting not Brody old kind of old. Not Brody old. That's not rodeo kind of old. And I think the thing that I remember about you is that you bring this energy, compassion and commitment to your work with students and the things you do. And so, like, I guess, fill us in on how you've gotten to Henry Ford, just a little bit of your origin story, but also, like, some of the impacts you've been making along the way.

Jennifer Markin  
Yeah, absolutely. Western Kentucky University was probably kind of mid career ish for me. I, like most people, I don't think it's a unique trope at all in higher ed, but I completely fell into this career. I was a trio participant at my undergrad Southeast Missouri State University, Simo works. Love it, yeah, Student Support Services, and I needed a summer job so I could keep my daycare benefits for my kid. I mean, just so genuinely and friend and I applied to be interns with this summer bridge program, and she didn't get the job, but I did, and I absolutely fell in love with it. It was for conditionally admitted students. The university was basically giving a second chance to take some developmental classes and then retake their ACT and do like a college one on one type course. And I just loved it. And my director at the time for the program, she didn't have a student affairs background, so she connected me with. Her friend who was the director of housing at the time, and just to learn more about the field, and like, should I get a master's and the week after Labor Day? So like, two weeks ish into the semester, that friend of hers who was the Director of Housing and Residence Life had a hall director that said, peace out. I'm gonna go be a cop. And left, and so she needed someone that could come in and basically just not burn the building down for like a year. And I said, Sure, with zero housing background, had never lived on campus. I mean, never been an RA, nothing. So me and my little boy moved into towers south at Simo, and I got a big old binder and a big old thing of keys, and I did not burn the building down for a whole year.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Success. 

Kevin Thomas  
Right, that's the goal, success. And I the other takeaway from that is, you know, after you we have a hall director, just go become a police officer. You know, it's similar.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It felt similar a lot of times as somebody with a housing background, I'm not gonna lie.

Kevin Thomas  
We spent a lot of time with the police, didn't we? 

Jennifer Markin  
You're besties. But then after Sema, I went to grad school at Ole Miss, also not a school that has had good football for many, many years, but we came so close this year.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So instead of Miami, that's for sure.

Jennifer Markin  
it would have been a same outcome. So I don't know if we need to get that close. I came to WKU to work in housing for about two years, and then I moved off campus, because living on has a shelf life, and I worked doing student services for our liberal arts college, and to this day, that is my favorite job of all time. I love me some Potter College of Arts and Letters, but Potter College of Arts and Letters didn't have a lot of money, and I had a mortgage to make, and I transitioned over to work in our Language Flagship program, which is a DoD grant, and then advising, great, yeah, that's how I ended up here.

Kevin Thomas  
It's interesting, because you talk about the transition and Brody's a housing guy too, right? We've done this at WKU. They try to entice you to stay a little longer, and so they're like, you can have pets. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you that sometimes that works. But when you're ready to be out of housing, you're ready to be out of housing. Jennifer and I did the same amount at WKU, and it was like, Yeah, I'm gonna take my pets in the apartment too.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I wrote the pet policy at the University of Northern Iowa. Catherine was like, the only way I'm living here for a few more years is if I can have cats. And so I wrote a pet policy, and we got it approved, and there's been a pet policy at Northern Iowa ever since. It only kept me in the building a couple more years, but it did mean I had two wonderful cats.

Jennifer Markin  
You are someone's hero. There is someone listening right now. That was like, that's the person I need to thank for my cat. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So you, you're, you've ended up at Henry Ford College in Metro Detroit, right? And listening to your story, it's been quite a journey. What drew you to community college advising leadership, and How has working at Henry Ford shaped your approach to student success?

Jennifer Markin  
Well, I really wish that I had like, a succinct, intentional answer to that. But very honestly, I moved to Michigan to be director of a trio program, you know, kind of coming full circle, and I absolutely loved the work, but I was also overseeing our tutoring center and our supplemental instruction. And then the library director left, and besides liking books, I know nothing about libraries, and it was just a lot, and I was really burnt out. So I was deciding, should I stay in higher ed? Should I not? And a job opened up here at Henry Ford College, doing, like accreditation and assessment and like a Perkins grant, which is like a workforce development very different than the work I had done previously. I mean, ish, I had some grant experience, and I was like, You know what? This is still in higher ed. I can take a pause. I can figure out what I want to do. I don't supervise anyone. It was the first time in my career I wasn't supervising a single person. And it came with, you know, a substantial financial incentive. And I worked like a nine to five, also not as anything I had ever done working in higher education. And so I took the job, and I absolutely loved it. I had an amazing upline. I really enjoyed the work. Got to work from home. At the time, there was something else going on in the world, you know, that kind of kept us all home or something. But I really, really liked the job, and we needed director for advising, because that we were moving more as an institution towards just embracing advising as a profession, and my upline knew my best. Background, and she asked if I'd want to do it on an interim basis. And I said, No, I'm good. I enjoy not supervising anyone, and I enjoy my nine to five, and I enjoy this increase. And she asked again. I said, Yeah, I really don't want to do that. And she said, Listen, I talked to the President, can you just fill in on an interim basis? And it was November, and I was like, Fine, I will do this, but until May, like, I have a shelf life, sure. And that was May of 2024, that I was supposed to be done. And I just, I fell back in love. I absolutely love advising and the impact we can have on students. I really, really enjoy the community college environment and how responsive it is to student success. I think the organizational structure and intention, the mission of the institution is very student focused, but additionally, just your student cycle moves quicker. I mean, so you're able to do implementation at a much faster rate, and we were, we're basically building a department from scratch. It was a dream job to create and really focus on building up advising as a profession, so not interim anymore, and I don't have any regrets, and I genuinely really enjoy my job.

Kevin Thomas  
Well, and good for your upline to be persistent. But so this is a question, and it's not on our list of questions, but I think it's good for the audience and it's good for us. You've mentioned things along your journey one, and I think we all go through this, that timeframe of not wanting to live on campus, but finance is mattering, and what that step is right? Like you were in a position that didn't necessarily have it, so like that money does matter when you're trying to factor these things in life. And oftentimes we don't talk about that because we're like, oh, well, we're doing it for the intrinsic reward. And it's like we are, but guess what? You gotta pay the bills. But then the second part I'm curious about, just like, how you've gotten to a from an approach standpoint, is the confidence to say no on something you don't want to do, right? Like, there's a lot of people that that first time they ask, they're not hesitating. I mean, how, like, Where was the lesson down the road, or along the journey that got you to a point where no was where you were okay saying and you felt good with that?

Jennifer Markin  
That's actually a really good question. I would say, I'm don't think of myself as someone who, like, is willing to say no a lot, because oftentimes I genuinely want to do the opportunity that's presented. Like, you know, ADHD, I'm a little bit impulsive. It sounds great in the moment. And then, you know, like, it's like, you make plans for the weekend on a Tuesday night, and then Saturday comes and you're like, maybe they'll cancel. Maybe they're canceling, you know, right, most, most opportunities that are presented to me I really want to do I'm genuinely excited about them. I think one of the things that made a difference within this context, that I also don't think we talk enough about in higher education, is the difference that an upline makes. I have had some amazing supervisors throughout my career. I've had some not so great supervisors across my career, like most people have, my upline now is definitely the type of supervisor that I aspire to be, and there was no penalty. Like, I was genuinely free to say, No, it was a very safe environment to be like, yeah, no. Like, I really don't want to do this at this point. Like, I also became very protective of, like, my own physical and mental health. And I was just like, yeah, no, I don't want to do that. And she was like, Okay. I mean, obviously she asked again, but you know it was, I always...

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
There's, there's only a no, but really yes at some point, right?

Kevin Thomas  
But I think the other part of this Jennifer, that maybe is good is like, what are those things that you see in your upline? You're talking about her being aspirational, as far as, like, some of the things that you'd like to be, what are those things that stood out, like that really shined in those moments?

Jennifer Markin  
Yeah, and she's actually still my upline, so I'll definitely give her props for that.

Kevin Thomas  
We gotta do some name drops and calling out here. Let's go Dr

Jennifer Markin  
Lori Gonco. She is our Interim President right now, and she is phenomenal. And, yeah, I'm, I really am glad that I work under her. She's an incredibly genuine person, which I think comes through in all of her interactions with people, and not like, Oh, I'm going to be a great fundraiser. So I'm, you know, very well put together. She manages to be very well put together and very intelligent from a genuine place. She started working at Macomb Community College, which is one of our sister schools a little bit north of us, as an administrative assistant. She has literally experienced the entire breadth of community college leadership, and it shows she has an amazing genuineness and empathy to her.

Kevin Thomas  
Well, shout out. And you said it was to. Dr Lori Gonco. We'll take the win. Welcome to the show. Dr. Lori Gonco.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You know, Kevin, we've talked about community. Colleges with a couple of our guests, but obviously they serve such a unique and diverse population, and I want to combine this with maybe one of our other questions that really is about the intersection of advising and student success. How do you see those two areas connecting, and where do they sometimes create tension, particularly in the community college system?

Jennifer Markin  
Oh, yes, that is a really good question as well. See, it's not just you. Kevin Brody has some tips.

Kevin Thomas  
Why do you make his head bigger?

Jennifer Markin  
I think community colleges, when they're doing it right, they are of their community. So they really have their individual context. We are in Metro Detroit, specifically Dearborn, Michigan, which, if you know anything about Dearborn, has a very large MENA or Middle Eastern North African population. So we, on paper, don't always look as diverse as we are. We also directly border Detroit and our Detroit Promise program. We actually have the largest number of students from the Detroit Promise program at Henry Ford College. So we're an incredibly diverse school, and we try really intentionally to meet students where they are. I think sometimes there's a couple ways that that doesn't always hit student success. I think a lot of times when you're coming from a community college as a business, which is a lot of how our community colleges maybe used to be not so much like an education, but we're like, we're an entity that serves the community, and they're thinking of it in an entity concept, right? And customer service is really important. And we want to, you know, serve students as quickly and efficiently as we can, which is definitely a good goal. But when we have students who show up and we want to try to admit them, advise them and get them registered in one day, things fall through the cracks, and it also creates an unrealistic expectation for those students in the classroom. So I have a great counterpart in our Enrollment Services, Office, Nicole Ford if we're dropping names. And her and I have really worked intentionally to try not to build barriers, but to create bumpers, you know. So a student comes in and, you know, it's the first week of classes, and today is the day that they decided they want to come to college, which we have frequently happened. You know, that's we're serving a population that has that on demand need sometimes. And you know, we can talk to them about, okay, let's get your application going. We can't necessarily admit you today. This is what we can help you with. We also want to talk to you realistically about what your options are going to be class wise. Now, let's try to maybe get you an English or a math to start off with, and then we can work on getting a full semester schedule the next semester. And I think sometimes that genuine look at student success doesn't always match with maybe an institutional goal or community expectation. We also uniquely are part of a K 14 or P 14 rather system. We're one of the few community colleges left in the country that's actually part country that's actually part of a school district. Wow. And we have a really large dual enrollment population. About 25% of our students are dual enrollment, not just from the Dearborn area, other areas as well, but we have an early college here on our campus. We have a Collegiate Academy. We have just kind of your traditional, one or two classes dual enrollment. We have a middle trade school. We have a lot of dual enrollment pipelines. And when you have that many high school students on campus, it is a lot more difficult sometimes to explain that you are a college student. These are these expectations, and we have them because we want to ultimately set you up for success. It's just but at the same time, like, what an amazing gift to be able to give students that they can finish high school, and they kind of get that jump start, and you know, if you're doing it right, they get really intellectually stimulating classes that they may or may not be able to access in their home high school. So it's kind of that balance.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I think the best institutions do a really good job of reaching out to community partners, and to have that built in is just an amazing it's not an innovation, it's just an amazing structure. So good on you all, because I think that ultimately the benefits outweigh the challenges there, because students get a chance to kind of see what it's going to be like.

Jennifer Markin  
Yeah, hopefully, that's the goal, for sure.

Kevin Thomas  
I'm reflecting back like a year ago, I Brody and I being on faculty administrators Institute. We we always wait for our day, that we get the attendees that are coming. And so a year ago, I'm sitting there going through my list, and I'm like, Jennifer Markin, Jen Markin, right? And so, like, I was this excitement that was there that we were going to get to reconnect in person for the first time in over 10 years. And so you went to the administration Institute, and then I learned today, you're going back to the administrators Institute. I am it's. I'm curious, you know, a year later, what were some of your takeaways or aha moments, and some of the experiences you had with that event.

Jennifer Markin  
It was really nice. You know, this was not my first time being a director. It was my first time of being a director, of advising. And all of the advising on our campus is in our office. We don't have official faculty advisors, although many of them do great, you know, ad hoc advising and functional area, but all the advisors on our campus are in my office, so by default, I'm in charge of campus wide advising, but I don't have a counterpart to work with. And when I came last year, we had just gotten approval for an assistant director position. So like, I had just gotten another person that I could even like, tell the secrets to of like, Hey, this is what's going on. We got to figure this out, you know. So I was so excited just to be able to talk to people who either were having or had had similar experiences, and to learn how they were approaching it. Like, even just with some technology we've been implementing, someone else in our group had a similar reaction to I did with their implementation process, and even that was just the knowing that you're not alone, that it's not just a you issue. It's kind of like when you're sitting your student development class in your master's program and they suddenly explain, like, why your students do these like crazy things, and you're like, Well, yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for putting it into words, you know, right, right?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So we you talked about leading a team, right? It requires balancing a lot of different things, operational needs, staff development, student outcomes. There's some institutional politics. How do you approach building and sustaining a healthy team culture in the middle of all of that complexity.

Jennifer Markin  
We are really, really intentional about our onboarding process and our ongoing professional development. As I mentioned earlier, one of the biggest things that I wanted to do with establishing an advising department was really focus on advising as a profession that was really important to me, so their onboarding experience prior, which is kind of some shadowing and like, some general information, which is, you know, great, but we can, we can do better. So we actually created like modules within a team site that have assessments at the end. Takes about four weeks, and then there's another week or two that they do, like additional shadowing and observations beyond their like, built in shadowing and observations, they work our front desk for a week like we really try to immerse people and give them the opportunity have all the questions asked that we would have never thought to put in training, because it's that like front line that first experience, we were like, oh, yeah, I need to learn how to look things up, not necessarily memorize all the answers. Yeah, that's great. And we also created an assessment that we have the person being shadowed and the person shadowing fill out after each appointment like their comfort level with different aspects. Did I have an opportunity to learn about this? Because if you ask your current staff member, oh, hey, you know, how did Kevin do in his shadowing session? Oh, they did great, you know. But if you give them a quick like, four or five question, like, oh, no, we actually didn't even get to look at like, how I do prep, the student just came in real suddenly, okay, well, we need to make sure we get a prep on the next one, so trying to do as much with assessment as possible. And then we have ongoing internal and external professional development set up throughout the year on a monthly and bi weekly basis. And then that same upline, who's amazing, allows us to actually shut down for a couple days each summer and do a full office retreat. And as some housing people, I treat it like RA Hall Director training we have. There's agendas. We have so much fun. When we first did our initial hiring, we brought in like, 10 new people at once. So I had done like, some level set training with the current staff. Then we brought in the new stuff. It was, it was housing. I set up, literally, a Housing and Residence Life training. And you know, if you drank the Kool Aid doing that. You know, it can be fun. That mandatory fun can actually be, you know, fun sometimes.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Love mandatory fun.

Kevin Thomas  
You know that you're talking to a housing person, if they're like, and so I have a theme for this, and it's like you worked in housing. What theme are we doing this week?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You had to eat. Well, at least, I bet too, right? Aren't eating well over those two days, no damage.

Jennifer Markin  
The local restaurants here, I have eaten my way through Metro Detroit and have zero regrets. The food here is amazing. So, yeah.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
We'll talk about that more later.

Kevin Thomas  
Hey, so you have worked in some diverse areas and and types of institutions and roles and all those things. And so I'm curious, because of your transition into your current role, if you could take a magic wand and change one thing about how higher education supports community college, how higher education looks at it, how professionals look at it. Um. What would what would be those one or two things that would be there from your magic wand use here.

Jennifer Markin  
At the state level, we have a really good situation. I don't know if every community college, system or individual college has that experience. We have a governor who's very focused on a 60 by 30 goal. 60% of the eligible population has a credential, and they've invested both people structure and money around that. So I'd say at the state level, if you're at a community college that doesn't have that support, I think that would be really difficult to manage. We are. We're very blessed here in Michigan with our Michigan Community Colleges. I would say what I wish could change is an understanding from a four year perspective of what a community college is and isn't I think sometimes there's still that perception that somehow, if you choose to go to a community college, you're like, you're picking an easier route, or you weren't ready for four year and like, have you seen tuition prices like or, Hey, I need to live at home, or I'm taking care of a child or a parent, or I work full time. There's so many reasons why students go to a community college, and as a whole, those students are just as capable as the students who choose to go to a four year institution. And and I don't think it's always an overt prejudice, but I think it can be systemic. And that assumption sometimes about community college students, and that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, and you talk about the first part of your answer there in the support from or from state, the state, you know, I think it makes such a difference in what all of our goals is that education is an option, right? And you look at this, and I think in Michigan, the college going rate is just over 53% which is down from like 65% a couple years ago, probably 10 years ago. But you look at a state like Arkansas that used to be 45% and is just now at 41% like, that's such a you look at it, you go, Oh, that's great. The 41% are going, or the 53% or whoever from our state, you're still missing over half of the students that are choosing a different path. And I get that colleges in every race path, but like, there's opportunity that's there. And when states support that, we can really see some, some tremendous outcomes, and you're seeing some of those even despite a little decline in college, going right?

Jennifer Markin  
I would say in Michigan, the thing that adds an extra layer is that for so long, people could have a really successful middle class life not getting a college degree. I mean, they're just the industrialization of the state. There were those opportunities. So like, if you wanted to go to college, cool, we support you, but it wasn't this need as much to be able to even get your foot in the door.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, and I do think four year institutions, if you're not paying attention to community colleges and making good partnerships, you are really making you're shooting yourself in the foot. I'm pretty sure, you know, a healthy chunk of our population at the University of Southern Indiana were transfers from community colleges. I think a third of our students here that graduate Illinois State are transfers and oftentimes coming from the community colleges. So it does benefit us to remove the blinders and get rid of the stereotypes and really start to develop good partnerships and good collaborations. No question about that.

Jennifer Markin  
Well, and oftentimes, those students who are transferring, particularly if they've already earned a credential, they're retaining and completing at a higher rate than your native students, are yes, like they've already kind of proven they can do this, like they know what it takes they're ready. They are a retention gold mine when it comes to your four year, absolutely, which our Detroit area has so many four years, that's actually something I really enjoy working as a community college. I get to be friends with all of them. I get to go to Wayne State events and have this great articulation agreement with Eastern Michigan and U of M and arbors LSA College, like we get to do the fun. I get to pick, like the best from all of the schools around here, which is really cool.

Kevin Thomas  
Especially if you get to go visit those areas too. You you're talking about the Detroit area having some good food. The state of Michigan rolls in some good food.

Jennifer Markin  
We do. We are a happy eating area, for sure.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
When you look a few years down the road. Jennifer, what's the work you most hope advising leaders are spending their time on?

Jennifer Markin  
Staff development, both in the sense of protecting and supporting our current advisors, so that they do feel they can stay in the field long term, and really overall, supporting the profession of advising. One of the things we did when we created the structure we have now is we have two positions. We have a entry level academic advisor position. Just kind of come in. You don't have to have you have to have experience. But advising experience, it's a great. Way, if you're someone who wants to transition to advising, to kind of get in that, that space, and then we have a senior position, a program advisor, which is for someone who has experience, and, you know, preferred, not required, but usually a master's degree. And the role is very intentionally created for two completely different types of people. It is a dual role. So about 50% you know, obviously never exactly, but about 50% is direct student service, and then the other 50% is overall student success within a functional area. So if you're someone who wants to do advising for like, three years ish, and you want to have a really stacked resume to talk about all the different stuff, the committees, the initiatives, the special populations you worked with, you can get that in this position. It's a great springboard if you want to move on, if you want to be able to stay an advisor, if you genuinely enjoy working directly with students, it pays enough that it can be a long term role, and you have variety. So you're able to do different things, explore different aspects of student success, and you get to stay engaged and financially supported in a role where you don't have to move up into like a manager type role to be able to work with students.

Kevin Thomas  
I think some of your experience, and some of this comes from housing and just general advising experience, where we tend to approach students in a holistic manner, that we try to look at it from a wraparound service component, but I think that my experience with colleagues that are at community college, they have to survive in that that environment as well. And so not only did you come in with that being your background, but now you're at an institution where that's got to be your reality. How do you approach that holistic view and those wrap around services with such compassion and care? Because I also know just from our time together, working together and hearing you talk even a year ago, like your care and admiration and compassion for students is second to none. I mean, it's just outstanding. And so like, how do you do all those things and make sure that you're showing that care and those services?

Jennifer Markin  
I think being mission driven is really important. I think a lot of times it's easy to get lost in, like, catchphrases or platitudes, like you mentioned earlier, that whole like, well, don't you want to do this? You don't need to get paid for this job. You're helping people like that's so offensive, like, you know, so damaging to the people that are putting in that work. But I think if you have an institution with a mission that is student focused, which ours, you know, is, and I think most people have students somewhere in their mission, at their institution, it gives you something really tangible and concrete to refer to, you know? So when you are working with other offices or legacy employees that are coming from a different perspective, it's like, I can listen to you, I can reflect on what you're saying, but at the end of the day, we have this tangible statement that we all need to refer back to. So is what you want to do? Is it mission driven? Because at the end of the day, that's why we're here. So as corny as it sounds, I think a quality mission statement, and I'm sure no one ever reads them, but they make a massive difference in being able to bring others with you on how you want to support students. So we have both the institutional mission, and we made one for our office as well. And we're like, but how does it affect students?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, that is great, and it's not something that people have to memorize, but it is something that people should embody, right? I think that that's really the important part of that development, and it it works better when everybody's involved in the development of that statement, for sure, and that people are on the same page. And I really liked what you said, look, I think advising is one of these professions where there's not always a way up in the profession. I mean, so many of the institutions where I've worked, that advising line is kind of flat, and so finding other ways to be able to contribute and to provide maybe additional incentives, whether that's a professional development opportunity, or reframing the position in a way that gives a staff member more money or a different title, is really useful in the retention of advisors. There's no question about that. So I'm glad that that's something that you think is really important, because I agree it is something that as administrators, we're going to have to be really focused in on here in the next few years.

Jennifer Markin  
Well, as hokey as it is, you know that quote, that it's like, Be the person you needed when you were that age, or, I mean, butchering a little bit, but that, you know idea, I like we said earlier, I've had some great supervisors. I've had some that aren't great, and I want to be the person that I would have benefited from in that space. And that's really what drives a lot of the decisions, you know, is it student focused. How is it going to impact the staff?

Kevin Thomas  
All right, Brody, are we ready to switch to the super fun? Ones that are not about work. I think we are. I was just going to suggest that, all right, here we go through the ringer for sure. Yeah, listen, we Those were hard questions. I'm glad we asked her and not each other.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
They were engaging and good questions. Remember, Kevin, they were good questions.

Jennifer Markin  
You both had a very good question.

Kevin Thomas  
And several mediocre ones. Okay, one of the things that we know you do is you take your dad to sporting events and history tours, and I think that's really special. It's just a really cool thing. What's been one of your favorite outings with him?

Jennifer Markin  
I am a complete like my dad is my person, and I grew up south of St Louis, so by birth, I'm required to be a Cardinals fan, like it is just you take the girl out of Missouri, but you can't take the love of cardinals out of the girl. Yeah, let's go exactly. And my dad lived in Detroit metro briefly for a couple years as a kid, when his dad worked for Ford up here, and then they, you know, moved after, I think, like two and a half, three years or whatever. But as a kid, he remembers the 68 Detroit Tigers, Cardinals, World Series. So I had just moved up here, and they were doing like, the anniversary game, and I got to take him, and he was just so excited. He was such a little kid, and it just like my dad is one of those amazing people, and I would do just about anything to put a smile on his face. He's a retired history teacher. Hence the history tours and yeah, took him to his first NFL game this year, and went and saw the lions preseason, not regular season. Those tickets are high. But, you know, had a good time.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Anyways. That is amazing. So look, I mean, it's crazy. I'm going to ask the food question, because look at me. I mean, so the Metro Detroit food scene, right? Is there a hidden gem or a spot that you'd recommend to anyone visiting?

Jennifer Markin  
I would say specifically in Dearborn, there is a little restaurant not too far from our campus called zaytuna that has some of the best Mediterranean food, and they are so, so kind. I I'll buy my staff lunch for our end of this semester. It's like my gift to them, before winter break, and the people there know that, so they'll, like, put extra stuff in and like, they're just, so it's family run. They're just some of the kindest people and some of the best food. But there are so many good food spots here, but that one has a special place in my heart for sure, amazing.

Kevin Thomas  
The thing that I didn't know is that you find weeds to be therapy. There's a story behind this, and you can answer it. But is garden? Gardening, gardening, jeez, gardening therapy or live music, if you only get one this weekend, which would win?

Jennifer Markin  
Oh, live music. Okay, yeah, it's also going to be like, below zero this weekend.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Maybe not this weekend, maybe a summer weekend. But still, it's live music that has to be the answer, yes. You would make it the answer, yeah. Is there a favorite concert you've been to? Or, like, I know you've you wrote to us that the show, the the healing Appalachia festival you went by yourself, which I'm really intrigued by. Tell me more about that.

Jennifer Markin  
So I'd never done a solo festival by myself, but I am a massive Tyler Childers and Chris Stapleton fan, you know, gotta have that Kentucky love. And I really wanted to go. I love healing Appalachia. If you're not familiar, it's actually Tyler Childers festival that he started, and it's focused on raising awareness and money for just drug addiction within the Appalachian region. Like, there's, they have people who come and share their stories in between the sets, everyone gets trained on how to administer Narcan. Like, it's a really cool festival. And I was like, I really want to go. No one up here really wanted to go with me. And I was like, I know. I just want to go. So I went, and I had a little like glamping situation not too far off the festival grounds. But as someone who you know, I'm a mom, and when I've gone to festivals, it's been with friends like you don't always have the opportunity to do like, exactly what you want. Like, this is gonna sound so selfish, but like, I put my chair where I wanted to put my chair. I didn't have to ask anybody else if that's where they wanted to sit at. I got to go to the food stand that I wanted to go to, like, it was amazing music and super friendly people, and I got to do exactly what I wanted the whole time. And Chef kiss 10 out of 10 recommend.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I'm not a massive that's great. I'm not a massive country music fan, but I do love Chris Stapleton. He's pretty sharp, yeah.

Jennifer Markin  
And I'm also I like country music really specific subsets of it, but they also have. Like, Remy wolf was there, Jesse wells, and then they had, like, local people from the area. It's a really cool festival. Jesse Wells is a lot of fun. I am obsessed with him, for sure.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah. So you have kids at very different stages, yeah. What moment are you most aware of not wanting to rush past right now?

Jennifer Markin  
My oldest is done. He's out of school. He's 22 my youngest, though, is a senior in high school, and I have never been that mom. Like, I didn't cry on their first day of school. I'm like, let's take a cute picture. Have fun. I gotta go to work, you know? Like, like, I was fine with it this year, though, his first day of school. I was like, this, is it, like, this is the last first day of school. And, like, they had a senior night for basketball the other night. And I'm just like, like, this is like, this? Is it like, being a mom has been such a huge part of my life, such a long I mean, like, the I've been a mom longer than I haven't been and it's just like, kind of that phase of it is coming to an end in a way. I mean, you'll always be a mom. They'll always need you. Like, I understand that, but this really intensive day to day. I'm in their business. I'm checking on them. They come to me with all of their problems. I mean, even that's changing with my oldest, you know, he might go talk to his girlfriend before he comes and talks to me, like, which is healthy, but, you know, like, whatever,

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, come talk to mom first. 

Jennifer Markin  
Yeah, it's like, it's normal, and you want your kids to launch and have super productive lives. But it is like a an acknowledgement of a chapter closing.

Kevin Thomas  
All right, I know we've hit some of these, but I think it's lightning round time. Okay? Do it? 

Kevin Thomas  
The question is really built for one. I'm gonna give you two, because I think it's more fun that you have to extend it a little bit. If you could have dinner with anyone living or dead, who would it be?

Jennifer Markin  
I get two of them. You get two. I would say Barack Obama, oh, because I just feel like he would have so much insight, particularly at this point in our country's history. And it would be he's an he seems like an engaging person, like, I think it would just be a really cool experience. And then Janis Joplin, oh, that would be a really again, just to, like, listen to her experience, both as this amazing musician, but also as a woman who navigated a really male dominated industry and the impact that that had on her mental health. Like, I just think she'd be really fascinating to talk to, and like 20 other people, but those are the first two that pop to mind.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Those are both great responses, cabin in the woods or city weekend like, which would you prefer if you have a weekend.

Jennifer Markin  
If I have a week, a city, if I have a weekend, a cabin? 

Kevin Thomas  
Alright, so you don't have to say ours. We'll put that off off the list here, but a book or podcast that you would recommend?

Jennifer Markin  
Ooh, okay, so I have been it's on NPR. Listen to it like on our local station, but it's also a podcast. So you know, if your local station doesn't have it, you can still get it. It's hidden brain. It's like a sociological podcast. I love hidden brain. I am obsessed with it. Like, they'll say the topic, and I'm like, Yeah, I really don't have an interest in that, but I like, have it on the background while I'm cleaning the house or doing dishes or something, and I end up, like, pausing and like, so I could hear what they're saying. Like, it, oh, it never fails to pull me in. And it's something interesting. And I really, really enjoy that one.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is a fantastic podcast. I got to come back to it. I've listened for a year. It was all I listened to. It's so great. Let's see, do you have a favorite cereal?

Jennifer Markin  
Yeah, cranberry almond crunch. It's like, it's one of the post cereals where, like, they try to make it look like it is healthy, even though it's not. But it's like, so good, and it like, sits in milk perfectly, if that makes sense. Like, yes, it doesn't get soggy, but it gets, like, just like, perfect, like, level of like, milk absorption, and it has cranberries and, like, probably some sugar substitute and oats. And it's really good.

Kevin Thomas  
I'm getting hungry already.

Jennifer Markin  
And I'm a real like cereal for dinner person. 

Kevin Thomas  
That's gonna be a topic. I can feel it. Song for you that's been on repeat lately?

Jennifer Markin  
Oh my gosh, that's probably the hardest one.

Kevin Thomas  
You're a music person. I know.

Jennifer Markin  
Okay, so, weirdly enough, the song that I have been singing a lot on the way home from work is laid by James.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Oh, James is so good.

Jennifer Markin  
Yeah, I That one's just, like, it says it hit my playlist. Like, just right? And then also, I honestly don't, I'm really bad about names and stuff. But the I think it's watermelon. Watermelon, something from the movie, dinner with America, or dinner in America. It's like the song from the movie, and it is. It's just great. Those two are probably the ones on my repeat right now. Is that a Harry Styles song? No, he does that like watermelon sugar song. This is, like the complete opposite of that. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's the only reason why I said that, because I've heard that name of that song.

Jennifer Markin  
My mom loves Harry Styles like it's the one thing to like ask Alexa to play on repeat. It's kind of funny, but no, it's, I don't know the name of it exactly. It's the watermelon song from dinner in America. And it is good movie, great song.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
There's a live James album you have to check out, called getting away with it live. Okay, I'll check it out. I don't know that I have any more questions Kevin, do you?

Kevin Thomas  
We'll wrap it up with this one. Do you have a hidden talent?

Jennifer Markin  
I mean, yes, but you're gonna make me so I was the pinochle champion of grade school. And not like, cards, pinochle, but like the, like, finger bending game, you know, I'm talking about where, like, you'd like, clasp your hands like this, and like, you had to, like, like, get the other person to say, pinochle. Oh, I went to Catholic school, so we did outside of the church when we were waiting for our classes permission to go in. But I wasn't like, super strong or anything, but my fingers are like triple jointed, so nobody could beat me. So I became the undefeated champion of pinochle in grade school at St Vincent de Paul.

Kevin Thomas  
That's a great finish to the show.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Amazing hidden talent that is a that is unreal.

Jennifer Markin  
Fingers can go like all the way back. 

Kevin Thomas  
That's crazy. That's wild. Next week, Jennifer in Kansas City, we'll see where we go. Yes, love it. You're definitely gonna win. Hey, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so much for coming on. We are pumped to see you in Kansas City next week, and thanks for sharing everything with our audience. This has been wonderful.

Jennifer Markin  
Yeah, thank you. I had a great time, and I look forward to seeing you guys next week as well.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Really enjoyed. It Nice to see you. Jennifer.

Kevin Thomas  
This is the time of the show where my son says, This is where Brody's gonna say, Ah, that was fantastic.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It was fantastic. I mean, come on, let's go. It was great.

Kevin Thomas  
It was so good to connect with Jennifer and hear all the things that she brings the profession in the field and and I'll say, you know, from our seat that we get to sit in, and then when you all get to listen to this as audience members on the various platforms, the learning that we get in this is just spectacular. Like, how great. Like, whether that's what your upline does to make you feel better, or, you know, the things that you do, they're innovative. Or in this case, like, the importance of a mission statement, what that means to different people. I'll say I'm one of those folks where I'm like, we have one, and is it driving us? I don't always know, right, like, and that's just various institutions. So to hear, you know, a colleague, talk about the importance of what that can be, that's that was, that was great.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Well, what I want to admit is, I was halfway through the episode and realized I'd never heard the word upline before in my entire life. And so I was trying, I was trying to guess what that was, and then I was like, oh, it's your supervisor. Okay, I got it. Yeah, that's great, but I had never heard that term before. And that's not really, that's not really what I wanted to say. What I was really interested in was that commitment to staff development, right, whether it's a new position, but but really kind of thinking about staff in ways that help them grow, personally and professionally, and maybe not changing the title, but finding ways to kind of fit it into the the work that you're doing in advising, we don't think about that enough, I think as administrators, because we can't always offer promotions or job title changes, but maybe it's a stipend opportunity or an opportunity to serve on campus, and I know that that's can be controversial, but from my perspective, looking out for staff in those ways really shows some genuine care. And then that stereotype of the community college graduate, right? Just reminding ourselves that, hey, you know, you can't, you can't put people in a box. And our community college students are wonderful students that come, oftentimes to four year institutions, and they serve our institutions so well, and are such great, great students.

Kevin Thomas  
Excellent points. The thing that I also took away is that Jennifer was a fan of cereal, which leads to our top three this week. It does. And so our top three, top three breakfast foods, yes, all right, I'll let you lead off.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Bacon is always on the top of my list, as it should be. I love bacon so much. I'm a massive biscuits and gravy fan, and my wife makes the best biscuits and gravy I've ever eaten. I've tried like heck to find a better biscuits and gravy, and I cannot do it.

Kevin Thomas  
Shout out to cat, way to go on the biscuits and gravy.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And then eggs. I mean, you got to have eggs for breakfast. And I like my eggs fried like I think the best simple breakfast is a buttered piece of whole wheat or sourdough toast with a fried egg and a couple pieces of bacon on top. Maybe splash some butter on that toast before you put the egg on and let's go.

Kevin Thomas  
Love it. All right, I bacon's probably on my list. Bacon should be on everyone's list. Everyone you've had it on yours. I'm gonna, I'm gonna move on to three others. I think in my number one slot for me, I love an omelet. And I think some of that's because I grew up and my dad would make omelets. It was one of the things that he cooked, and enjoyed cooking. And so if I get a good omelet, I'm a pretty happy camper. French toast is on my list. I french toast. You can put some fruit and other stuff on it, but french toast on its own, fantastic waffles, probably second on that, pancakes, third, you know, if we're talking about that family, but french toast, number one, family of carbs, and then also in that family of carbs, cinnamon rolls, man, like a great cinnamon roll. Come on. Sign me up. You asked this question when we were talking about this earlier is a cinnamon roll, just like a pastry or a donut. And it's like, well, it's in that donut family. It's in that pastry family, but cinnamon rolls are standout and wonderful. There's a bakery here in Conway that we went and bought some cinnamon rolls for the holiday season, B and B bakery, shout out, yes, sponsorship coming. But like, they were delicious. You know, you go and pick them up and you pop them in the oven, and they were next level grocery breaker.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
He does some great cinnamon rolls too. And they have classic like frosting, and as well as the buttercream frosting, I like both equally well.

Kevin Thomas  
Very good. Well, we'll wrap us up and send us out here, my friend. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
We had a great time on the pickup meeting today, and we do hope that all of your pickup meetings, whether formal or pickup style, are as fun and as impactful as the one we had today, until The next time, let's do good and be nice.