21 Days vs. 13 Weeks: What Paternity Leave Is Actually Costing Fathers

Evan Coleman went back to work when his son was 21 days old. The second time around, he had 13 weeks — and it changed everything about how he thinks about fatherhood, work, and what companies still get wrong about paternity leave.

In this conversation, Evan and Damon get into how to structure your leave strategically, how to build a support system when family isn't nearby, and the mindset shift most new dads miss before baby even arrives.

If you're a high-performing dad trying to figure out how to show up fully — at work and at home — this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

First time around, I felt that I was trying to fit this huge, gigantic life event around the current life and lifestyle that I had already had. I was going back to work when my son was 21 days old. It did feel like something was a little off. Just in terms of going back to work when this huge life moment just took place three short weeks prior, the first thing that comes to mind is communication. There was this like false sense of needing to do everything on your own. I think you take for granted how much time it takes to prepare food, to cook it, and then think about doing that while you're sleep deprived. I put a lot more energy into work, my career leading up to the birth of my second child. That mind shift for me didn't take place until my first child was like here in front of me in person. Knowing that for baby number two, I think I was able to prepare a little bit better. Thinking about what you need most in orchestrating time and structure around that will be both helpful for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Today I'm joined by Evan. He's a dad of two who's experienced with turnity leave from both ends of the spectrum. First time around, he just had a few weeks off with no real roadmap. And the second time, he's had a much different approach. He's had more attention, more structure, a very different mindset. This conversation is about what changes when you stop trying to fit parenthood around work and instead let work fit around one of the most important seasons of your life. I'm excited to jump in. Let's go. All right, folks, we're back again. Before we jump in, I'd love for my guest to introduce himself, just you know, share with the folks who you are, what you do, you know, how many kids you have, their ages, as much as you'd like to share today.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Absolutely. Uh hey everyone, I'm Evan Coleman. Uh, I am a senior marketing manager at LinkedIn. So very much a marketer by trade, but more holistically, I like to solve different problems across the world creatively, whether that be through my passions with student athletes or just getting more intertwined into this whole world of AI. In terms of kids, I have two. Uh I have a son. Uh, his name is Kai, he is four years old. And then I have a baby girl. Her name is Aya, and she is just about to turn uh seven months. Uh so super busy. Um, but I am super thankful for the household that you know my wife and I have created.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Amazing. I love that. Um for folks who know, Evan and I, we both have a uh student athlete in background. And so I think the last year and a half has been I I've loved some of Evan's content. And I I wish I had someone like that, you know, I would say 10 years ago. Geez, it's you know my age now. Um I I I doubt a lot of people tell you like how to get up and going on LinkedIn and how to leverage your unique background. So we'll talk about how to get connected with Evan later because I think he does some amazing stuff there. Um two kids, four and seven months. And curious, Evan, what does the day-to-day look like right now at this stage?

SPEAKER_02 2:55

The day-to-day is, you know, at this point very structured. Uh so my wife and I, we work very hard and diligently to make sure we have everything that we can control organized. So whether that be you know, pickup and drop off of our older son at school, uh, making sure that we have our babysitter, um, their schedule on our calendar so we can clearly see times that we have uh, you know, the caregiver come through the household. Anything that affects our family and our household, we have we try to be as structured and as organized as possible. That way we can do, you know, what we need to do best, which is, you know, whether that be with my wife with her residency program, myself with my work. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

That's uh and there's so many strings. And and one of the things that you mentioned of like how hard you have to work to get gear, because people think you just like flow into it, but to build the routine does take time. Um, it's the second time around. I'm curious if you thought back to the first time, um, seven month-hold. Uh, what has changed? Like, what are some of the things that you've learned and especially around sleep and energy management? I'm curious there. Great question.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Uh so first and foremost, I'll say that you know, the first time around, I felt that I was trying to fit this huge, gigantic life event around the current life and lifestyle that I had already had with work, with my wife, uh, just trying to, you know, do the best I can, but still fits that huge life moment into the way in which I was already living. This time around, you know, after I've had the time to reflect and really understand what's best for myself, my family, I took a moment and I paused. And I knew very clearly that this was one of the best times in our lives collectively, you know, as a household. So I wanted to not only prioritize, but, you know, focus as best I could singularly on that moment, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Let's let's pull on that a little bit. Um, and I think there's some fundamental changes. I I as I recall, we were talking, it sounds like the first time around, the paternity leave wasn't as built out. What was it like going back to work so soon? I'm curious about that.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

So the first time around at my previous employer, um, I had three weeks of paternity leave. Um, so all in all, I was going back to work when my son was 21 days old. Wow. And you know, truthfully, because that was my first child, it just felt like the norm. It felt like a societal and social norm that you kind of just live with. Um, but if I really think back on that time and think truthfully, it it did feel like something was a little off just in terms of going back to work when this huge life moment just took place three short weeks prior. And you know, now you're caring for a life that is still so young and needs needs you around 24-7 and needs you fully present. Um so yeah, it it felt a little awkward, uh still a little off uh in terms of going back to work that suddenly, but um, I get it. You know, those were the kind of the guardrails in place at the time. Um and that's what made it a social norm.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

The thing that I joke about with my wife is that I think parents are just going around just like sleep deprived, and no one's saying anything. It's just like, is this just a a known and that everyone's just sleep deprived and we're just all walking around and we've I was talking to my coach about it, and she's like, you are expected to just be tough and you know, like this is just what you do. But it's like, should it be the case? You've gone through that transition the second time around, and now you're in this stage where you've seemingly had more support and more aware. I'm curious if if you could share some of the things that have made you more aware now. Is it just that you become like awakened to like, wow, like maybe this shouldn't have been this way before? I'm curious if there's any additional things that sparked you're like, wait, there's a better way. And I'm not only did I feel this way, but others um have experienced this better way as well.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

In this particular situation, I do feel like experience is and was the best teacher. So going through that, you know, the first time around, understanding what worked, what could have been tweaked a little bit, and what completely needs to be, you know, done differently was clear both in my mind as well as my partner's mind. So I think that was the first thing where coming into this the second time around, we were super clear on what needed to take place for us to be successful, if you will, um, you know, relatively speaking. Uh the other thing I'll say is I think you know what your setting this dictates dictates a lot of that as well. So this time around, um I'm with a different employer than I was the first time around. You know, I was I'm very fortunate enough to have 13 weeks of paternity leave. Um, but also, you know, things such as ERG groups, uh, being you know intertwined in our family ERG group and being able to connect with different people who are either going through this currently, have gone through this, you know, over the past couple of years. It's been really helpful just to understand various families' experiences and what works best for them and you know, pull that into your own life to, you know, make your path uh as successful as possible.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

You mentioned the family ERG groups and before you'd mentioned, you know, um the nanny. How have you structured support? Um, I think we're similar. I I don't have my family nearby. How have you structured that support? I think it'd be great if grandparents were here to help out or, you know, but or siblings. But uh for those of who don't, I'd curious like how you've gone about it and um what advice would you give all the additional folks who are saying, like, hey, we're we gotta have this good, but we're nowhere close to where our support, like our familial support is. The first thing that comes to mind is communication.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Uh, it sounds so cliche, but again, when I compare the first time around versus the second time around, there was this like false sense of needing to do everything on your own the first time around for myself and probably for my wife as well. We were also dealing with, you know, COVID and uh, you know, being cautious from a health perspective as well. So that that did affect things and the dynamic in terms of allowing people to come into the household and help us as well. But all in all, you know, second time around, as we were going through the pregnancy and preparing for the birth, uh, we communicated a lot with our family. We started to, you know, create a calendar of central shift work uh where different family members could come in at different times. And we also wanted our family members to lean into, you know, what they do best. Um, my dad, for example, he loves cooking. He cooks really, really well. So he was able to help us, you know, prepare meals for, you know, the first three weeks of that time with our newborn to where we didn't even have to think about food. And that that's immensely helpful because I think you take for granted how much time it takes to prepare food, to cook it, and then think about doing that while you're sleep deprived or you don't have as much energy as you typically do. So just different things like that, communication, allowing family members to lean into their strengths to, again, better and help the the household is is super important.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

You talk about calendaring and that sparked for me this idea around I know you've um you had a you know, you broke up your time off um in a specific way. And one of the things I'm trying to do with these conversations is show people that there is not just one right way to do something. It's what works for you. Um so I would love for you to share like how you decide to potentially break up the time, um, and just like give folks an additional example of like, here's what I did, you don't have to do it, but just know that, you know, there's different options.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

The way in which that came about was really just talking about my wife, or excuse me, talking with my wife about what would be the best schedule for us as we re-enter our respective work fields. So as I briefly mentioned before, my wife is in residency um here in the DC area. I work, you know, in marketing. So I have a pretty flexible schedule as it relates to where I work. You know, I come into the office two days a week. The other three days a week, I'm able to, you know, work from home or or work from a co-working space. Uh, but all in all, we talked about okay, our child is going to be born in late June. There's that, you know, 4th of July holiday time period. And then, you know, we have three or so months before we get into that fall holiday period. So, how do we best, you know, split up or combine our paid time off to ensure that, you know, we're running our household efficiently and effectively. But also, you know, our newborn gets the care and support that she needs, especially in those very early stages. So we talked about what was best. And then, you know, I went back to my work and was able to collaborate with my manager in terms of what I believe felt uh would be the best for my family. And my manager was super supportive. I I have to say the company, the organization, my team in general, they're all very super supportive of you know, team members that go on leave for personal reasons or you know, for the birth of uh their expecting children. So it was super helpful to have that supportive supportive piece behind going after what we wanted.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

So for you guys, it was understanding, hey, you and your partner, here's what we need. Um, and then trying to, you know, whoever has the most flexibility and what specifically worked for y'all in terms of what you were trying to achieve. So it's not just, you know, hey, let's just take three months off together. It's like look at your need and then see what might work best, you know, for your desired outcome with what you get. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

And just to add a little bit more color there, our whole goal was like, hey, if we both take off our if we both take leave at the same exact time, we will need to find a child care supportive arm to help us when our baby is three months old. That still felt a little young to us. So we said, how can we manage our two pay time offs to get our child to be a little bit older before we rely on call it non-family support? And that, you know, that's what we did.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

I love that. It's it's one of the things that we're thinking through and getting ready to do as I go back in a month or so. Um one of the things I want to come back to is this idea of um work being the priority and this, you know, it's like the difference between fitted and in and just like this is the goal. Uh, we all often talk about work-life balance and everyone talks about it, but you know, oftentimes it's lip surveys of like when you know the moment arrives. Do you really think, do you really show up and say, this is this is what I've been working towards? Um it sounds like you've made that shift. So I'd be curious to hear, um, I don't know, like, how did you make this mindset shift between this just being like trying to fit this thing in versus this is the main thing and the only thing, not just an aside? It's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And I think the thought process for me specifically on this started well before my second child was here. So uh, you know, obviously uh it's it takes about nine months before baby's actually here with us uh in person. So in preparation for baby, you know, getting here, my thought process was let me put a little bit more energy into my work because I know post-birth I'm going to have to lean more into my family and more lean more into her household uh to support our family. So, you know, I put a lot more energy into work, my career leading up to uh the birth of my second child. And then I think, you know, as the birth of my second child took place, I was able to take leave and slowly reacclimate myself into my work, it helped me restructure my priorities. So again, my priority leading up to the birth was work and obviously still getting prepared for child coming getting here, but understanding that this was a unique time where I could really dial in on my career, my work output, my performance. And then as I was able to, you know, lean off of that gas pedal, refocusing on family, uh, I leaned back into my other priorities, again, being family, the household, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

The thought that's coming up for me as you were saying that is it's not just, oh, an afterthought, like, oh, I'm I've become a dad. And there's the joke around, you know, fathers, it doesn't hit the fathers until after the baby. Whereas for the moms, like their bodies have been changing so much that like they are fit, they're aware that like a change is here, they're preparing for the change. But for us, you know, non-birth impaired is oftentimes we don't get that change until like there's something physically there with us, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Yeah. And I think that's that's actually I I just yeah, I want to double click on that. That that's a really interesting point. And I think that's one of the differences between uh baby number one, the journey of baby number one and the journey of baby number two is to your point, uh that mind shift for me didn't take place until my first child was like here in front of me in person. Knowing that for baby number two, I think I was able to prepare a little bit better for that, um, both prior to baby number two being here and once she was here with us.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, yeah, it's it's big. And I think it's the other part of that is like it's a more holistic thinking versus, you know, um, I don't know about you, but I'm also an only I'm an only child, and my wife's an only child. So sometimes we're just like doing our own thing before kids. Yeah. And now we have to slow down. I was like, wait, like I really have to think about I can't just go to the coffee shop or go to the gym in the morning. It's like I'm really coming back to thinking about like not just the baby, but my wife now. Because before it's like, oh, she's an adult, she can take care of herself, you know, versus like now. Uh so it's like a more holistic thinking, and um yeah, versus just it's like you're in this, it's it's the and, right? Like you're um a professional and a father and a husband, and like how can we encapsulate all of that into one versus just saying like you're you know one-sided? As you were saying that one of the things that um last couple of things is like preparation. A lot of people talk about preparation up until a certain point. Like I I distinctly remember my wife, you know, as with many people, we were worried uh, could we conceive? We hadn't tried, you know, we're so that's like we were just like, could we make it? And then that happened, like, oh well, we did it now. What? Like we weren't prepared for like the nine months in between. Um, I'd be curious for you of like, you know, how what do you wish you had prepared, you know, after or before? Like, or was there a period in the preparation you're like, man, I just didn't even think about this, or I probably should have thought about this before, you know?

SPEAKER_02 18:26

The first thing that comes to mind is I think my wife and I, we did a great job of preparing before birth, right? So making sure our household was set up, making sure we had all the, you know, right tools, resources. We were doing all of the baby classes, all of that stuff. But maybe one thing that would have helped me is just talking with more dads and more fathers about what to expect once baby is actually here. And I know there are generational differences, there may be differences based on the type of work an individual does, but I think just collecting that information may have given me a better understanding of what to expect once baby is here, but also kind of it would have allowed me to formulate my own vision of how I want to move as you know, I become a father.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, it's something about awareness goes a long way. Um, I am lucky that my wife is a pediatrician. So she was able to just say, like, oh, here's things that you need to worry about or not worry about, or the milestones, like I haven't bought a milestones book, but I'd imagine that's something because you know, she's just aware of like, okay, this is normal, or this is baby acne, or this is what you use, you know. And so that's that's been really cool. Awesome, man. I I I guess I'm curious, right? So, two last things. Let's go back. First time down like myself, or someone six months getting ready, you know, who's unsure about taking the leave or how to take the leave or um what to do. Like what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I would tell them to think as best and as far out as you can in terms of what would be most ideal. Um, and that goes for actual leave time, so t time you need away from work, but also thinking about re-acclimating yourself into work. Um and again, this may go as far as someone's employer allows them to go, but it never hurts to ask, whether that be, you know, slowly re- slowly integrating yourself back into the workplace, whether that be, you know, hey, for the first couple of weeks, I know I'm going to have the most energy in the morning. So let me try and structure my meetings, structure, you know, my head's head, call it head down work time in the morning. And then in the afternoon, I may take my calls while I'm walking my child in their stroller or getting some fresh air. Just again, it sounds cliche, it sounds a little bit fluffy, if you will. I don't know if that's the right term, but it just it just sound it I think thinking about what you need most and orchestrating time and structure around that will be most helpful for you. And if you don't know, try and find, you know, people that can give you their expertise or their experience uh to help you formulate, you know, your own perspective.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

And lastly, um, you know, there's the the debate, like should companies give the time or not. Um, I don't think that's a debate. I think everyone thinks that companies should give the the the time off. Um, but what else would you wish company knew about, like uh, you know, the unexpected or what are some unexpected benefits you wish some companies would give or some companies would know about like, hey, it's not just a time off, but it's what it's afforded. I'm curious if there's anything that comes up, and mainly because you Done it at multiple companies now.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

I mean, going back to my previous point, that reacclimating yourself into work, I don't know exactly what that benefit would look like, but maybe if there is a way that you can slowly ramp up into work after a major milestone life event like this, I think that would be immensely helpful. I mean, very similar to when you join a new company and you have the first 90 days to acclimate yourself to the setting, um, ramp up in terms of your knowledge. I think it'd be helpful to do, you know, something similar coming back into the workplace for from a life event like this. Again, it could be something as simple as hey, this person is going to start, you know, Monday through Thursday. Mornings, they're going to be online, kind of fully active, incorporated into the team. And then the afternoon, we're going to allow them to maybe take extended breaks or allow them kind of heads-down time to do individual focused work. Just different things like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I I hadn't heard that or thought about it from the time, but it makes so much sense. Um, Evelyn, thank you so much. This has been amazing. Um, you've got me thinking about some different things and lots of tidbits here. Where can folks connect with you? They want to just, you know, learn a little bit more about your journey, see some of the stuff you're doing with student athletes.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Absolutely. Thank you for the time. I appreciate it. And I I want to commend you for the work that you're doing here because I think it is very, very important. So I appreciate you and in the series that you are creating.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Awesome. Um, all right. Well, thanks again and uh have a good one.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Thank you. You too.