The Workaholic Dad | A Sales Pro on Paternity Leave, Presence, and Redirecting Your Drive

Sam is a loving husband, father of a three-year-old, and expecting baby number two this July. 

He's a self proclaim workaholic  who has spent his career in sales and never really knew how to turn it off.

So what happens when someone like that gets four months of paternity leave?

In this episode of the Soul Sessions Fatherhood Series, Sam shares one of the most vivid descriptions of entering paternity leave I've heard (using a scene from The Matrix to explain the mental shift from constant noise to a blank slate). 

We talk about how he redirected his high-achiever energy into fatherhood, the question he used to snap himself back to presence, what it really felt like returning to work as a new dad, and why the second leave is going to be a whole different challenge.

This one is for every high-performing dad or soon-to-be dad wrestling with the tension between ambition and being present. Sam doesn't have it all figured out  but he shows up honestly, and that's exactly what this series is about.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I will always be a workaholic and am a workaholic and knowing what's a workaholic back then in general. I don't see work as an out of five. It's hard for my mind to shut off at times, especially for work, when I would like catch myself on like my work phone during like halfway and that big question of like, wait, why? Why am I doing this right now? Appreciate time so much more than doing things very differently. It was definitely rough read things back into my role as a dad. You know, you kind of give less about your work since you have more means to your life. No matter how good you are at your job or how invaluable you are to your team, the reality is the world will continue to revolve and continue to work like without you. Your work can wait, family can't. Time is too precious too, and that's we all know it's something that you don't get back.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thanks again, folks. I have Sam here. Sam, I'd love for you to briefly introduce yourself, you know, share where you are, not just professionally, but as a dad or a husband, um, as much as you want to tell the folks today.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, absolutely. Um, thank you so much, Dom. Um, really excited to be here today. Uh, so I'm Sam. Um, I am a loving husband and a father of a three-year-old uh boy. And actually, very recently we figured out that we have another boy coming uh in July. So Yeah, thank you so much. Um and yeah, professionally I work at Google, um focusing on the Google ad side, uh, specifically in the acquisitions team. I had joined Google on the mid-market sales side, uh, but now kind of like front of the funnel uh over in the acquisitions team.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Love it, love it. I've had the privilege to know Sam. Geez almost all our tech, my tech career. So this one goes way back. I'm excited about this one. Um as as I was thinking about this conversation, um, you know, this was you said three years old, so this will be fun. Three years ago or you know, three years and nine months ago, uh, I'd be curious. Like, how did you just how would you describe your relationship with work?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

I will always be a workaholic and am a workaholic, you know, and was a workaholic back then. Um, but that, you know, that obviously had toned down um when our son was born. Um so for you know, before becoming a parent though, I was extremely passionate about my work and you know, very dedicated to it. Um I gave a lot of my time during uh time to work after during the after hours, you know, during the day I would focus on my core role, but then after hours, I'd be working on like extracurricular projects for work that I know would benefit in my career trajectory long term. So yeah, in general, um whether back then or now, I don't see work as a nine to five.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

We'll get to that. Um, I think a lot of people go through that transition. And and so last time you went on paternity leave, can you remind me like how long you got?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

So I fortunately I've gotten uh we get four months. Um, so I had split it up. Um, I took a quarter off. So it took three months off, and then I had taken like a month um off um like later on. Uh so I split that month up uh in like chunks.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

That's a good amount. Um I'd love for you to describe like those first couple weeks, first month, like how were you feeling? Any moments that like stood out to you off like this, like that would encapsulate that moment in the first month.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

I guess like if we were to talk about kind of like basically like when I went on paternity leave, right? Like when I went the moment when that like shift happened, right? So for I bring this movie up. So everyone for every everyone that's seen the movie The Matrix, uh, there's a scene where uh Neo is being introduced to the Matrix and gets plugged in again by Morpheus, right? But instead of sending him uh into the full simulation of that like 1999 world, um, Morpheus brings Neo into this like blank white workspace called the construct. So where it is a blank slate virtual environment where the crew can like, you know, load anything that they need. So that full simulation of that 1999 world with all that noise was representing before I went on pat leave, right? So, you know, busily working with no baby, living it up. Um, and then the construct. Anything's possible. Yeah, yep, exactly. Uh, but the construct, right? That blank white space was entering PAT leave, right? It was such a whole different lane. Um, like there was like, you know, all that noise had toned down, especially that work noise. But of course, soon after that, that white noise would turn into baby noise and that parenthood noise, right? Different, different kind of um busyness, right? Different kind of activity. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Yeah. That's interesting. You're the one of the first person I've ever heard it describe it, and you describing it, it just makes sense. It's this transition phase, and for some people they call it the liminal phase, where it's like, you know, you can't go back and the future is uncertain, and almost like you have no idea what to expect, and so much is possible in the future. That's that's oh yeah, that's so good. Um, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that as well. How did you think? I know you're an active man, I know you have um you played instruments. Hopefully, you're still doing a lot of that. Um, how did you think about juggling all of that and being present, not only physically, but mentally?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

You know, I think like you and I have talked about before in the past and when we used to work together, it's hard for my mind to shut off at times because I'm like just constantly on. My mind races from time to time, especially for work, right? So sometimes when I had to be present mentally during my pat leave, you know, I I would sometimes be thinking about work, but would quick like quickly snap out of it, right? Um with changing diapers, bottle feedings, right? The whole night on raising a kid. I guess like the hardest thing though was just trying to like make that shift and um be present. But I would get that in real time uh and learn the hard way of like if I wasn't present, then you know, these things of being being a father and the duties of being a father would like wake me up real fast and snap me out of it.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Interesting. Um yeah, there's like a a built-in awareness of the now, right? Like you you can't just like gloss over a baby crying or um in effect, like it's one of the most immediate things. Like for us, you know, if something's wrong, we can go scroll on social media, but you know, if a baby poops, like you don't want to, you know, or they're hungry, like it's an immediate need, not like, oh, like even uh us, like if we're hungry, we can be like, yeah, I can wait a couple hours, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

No, I was saying, um, yeah, there's there's no in-between. It's like then there's no waiting. Like the babies, you know how it goes, dad. Like they need us now, and we need to do it now, right? There's no waiting on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah, there's so much there. I I love that. It's like, were there mantras that you had? Um, or was it just something you learned over time to like continue to be present? Because it seems like you're way more present and grounded now. So I'm curious if there was either like a pivotal moment that made things snapped, or it was just like a gradual, like constant reminder of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Definitely a constant reminder. Um, you know, and like I would I would definitely be thinking about these things of when I would like cut catch myself on like my work phone during like pat leave and right that that that big question of like, wait, why? Right? Like, why am I doing this right now? I definitely had a lot of those moments and over time it was it was like a long burn, it was like a long play of like trying to get better with it. But yeah, just like with having these moments and having getting better about my screen time and not just like mind mindlessly doom scrolling through my work emails or notifications or on my like personal phone with socials or other apps. You just kind of learn to be present, especially there's a lot more outside of you know, this tiny little screen that we're always glued to or like zombies to, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

I like that. That question, like, why am I doing this right now? It's almost like without, I don't know if you realize what you're doing, but there's this Asian practice of like coming back to self. And it's that almost what you were doing is that building that constant awareness of like, is this the best use of my time? Or, you know, um, and I think it's a question that a lot of people can use. Knowing that, I guess it's I'm curious because I there's there's two two implications here. You are definitely a high achiever, see you as that. Um, how have you wrestled with that? Like the urge to stay productive, even during leave, because there must have been things pulling you, like, were there additional things you said with your wife? Like, uh how how did you, you know, wrestle with that tension?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

You know, surprisingly, a lot of it could like ideally translate into being a parent. So I honestly like just thinking about it, like just simply stay productive and brought that product, like, you know, productivity workhorse, whatever you want to call it, into being a parent, right? So instead of being a productive workhorse, a high achiever in the workspace, um, I was instead a productive workhorse and striving to be a high achiever as a parent. So it's all about changing the narrative and like reshifting focus and um, you know, also discussing that with Sarah, with my wife. Um, because she's just very much the same way. We're both high achievers. Like we we are very passionate about our careers and just like we're workaholics. And um, yeah, there's a lot that we had to like kind of shift when it came to those urges of being productive, but no longer being productive in the office, right? Or in the workspace, but instead in our parenthood um oh space, you know?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Are there specific examples? Like I love to read, and um one of the the joys I have right now is um she's captive. So she's like, whatever I read, you're reading. So, you know, it's like like I'm reading this book about the economy, like you're gonna learn about the economy at three months old. Like, what what are there specific examples for you of like being high achieving or like things that you're like, man, like other people might think, ah, these guys are crazy, but like to you it was just a norm.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

You know, nothing that sticks out too much, but I guess one that comes to mind is given that, like, you know, I couldn't be productive with work if I had this like free time, for example, or like trying to balance things. So, like you brought up the music, right? Um, for those that don't know me, I'm really big into music. Um, I my main instruments are the cello guitar, singer, songer, singer, songwriter, right? And so whenever I want to do my music and be productive on that, it was perfect. My audience was my son, right? So I'd be playing, I'd be writing music uh for my son, um, which was truly awesome because, like, you know, as we know as parents, like music does a lot of things um for for the baby and for the kids, right? Just all throughout their age. And so it was really cool to see just the reaction. Yeah, um, and you know, two birds with one stone, right? Um, or shall we say, feeding two birds with one scone, um, getting to do my music and watching my son at the same time, but turn into this cool, cool like you know, experience where he was truly enjoying it.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

I love that. And oftentimes people say carry them along in in a in a ideal world, the child forms to your lifestyle, but you know, we know that. Uh with that, because it sounds like you know, the juggling of the music, uh I'd be curious. One of the things that came up as I was thinking through this is like, how you know, has your relationship with time changed since becoming a parent? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Oh man, you you appreciate time so much more and view it very differently, right? I feel like you get one of the best lessons in being the most efficient with time management as a parent, right? Um, especially like you know, when they're when they're young and they reach a milestone when they start to like take those naps, for example, you'll find these pockets of time to either sleep when the baby's sleeping, which majority of the time my wife and I would be doing so. But if we weren't tired, weren't sleeping, we had these pockets of time to take advantage of and really use it properly. And I felt like in a way, right? Time is such a weird concept when you're a new parent, especially. Um, and you learn so much about it. So um, yeah, that's definitely how I like thought about it during them.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

That's cool, man. It's I can attest to that where talking to someone else around even working out, where it's like, I you know, I could go to the gym for an hour and a half too, and it's like white gym. Uh it's crazy. Um, I'd be curious, like you've returned to work now. Um how would you send it's been three years and you're heading into one um presumably shortly or like in the next you know, nine months or so. How how has your approach to work changed and how might it change in the future, even with baby number two?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

It was definitely rough ramping like it back into my role as a dad, as a new dad, right? The overall themes I learned during this period was like number one, nothing will ever be the same as it once was. And then number two, um, you know, you kind of give less of a crap, excuse me, excuse me, about your work. Uh, since you have more meaning to your life, right? Aka your child, your family that you've built and are continuing to build. Now with our second child coming up, it's nice. I've been through it before. So I know how to ideally handle the the way I I do things and how I view things. But, you know, on the first go-around though, it was really tough because I thought I could just get back and start running again. But I had to learn how to crawl, walk, and run eventually uh when it came to getting back into work um as a dad.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Uh do you think the time off will change this time or how easy the time off might change this time around?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah, maybe certain moments I had during the the first pat leave that I will be doing in the second pat leave. But the biggest difference now is that we have already a three-year-old, right? We have a child. Um, so that's that's obviously gonna be adding to the challenge. And I'm thinking about it now, I'm probably gonna be learning new lessons about time management, right? Um, so it's gonna put I'm gonna be put through the ringer with my wife. Um, but all in goodness, right? Um and actually really looking forward to it as chaotic as it could be, um, trying to trying to raise two two children. So uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

I love that. How and then let's let's as we we try to wrap up. I'd be curious. I know there's a lot of high performers out there are wrestling with number one, should I take this time off? And number two, like, how do I even make it a little bit more peaceful of like not see it as unproductive time? Like, what advice would you give that person?

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Just in terms of for like um uh advice for like other high performers or like or or other high performing dads who are prospective dads who are saying, hey, I have this paternity leave come um coming up.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

I'm not sure how I should take it, when I should take it, if I should take it. And then like they might have potential fears. They might have been in the same place, or even worse, thinking, oh my God, I I fear that I might be behind or I'm not gonna be as productive as possible.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

First off, always take the pat leave, right? Your personal life, especially something like family, always comes first and will always be more important than work. So my my thing that I've learned in my philosophy is no matter how good you are at your job or how invaluable you are to your team, the reality is the world will continue to revolve um and continue to work like without you, right? So if your mind is racing, for example, you can't shut off on like, you know, about work stuff. Remind yourself the work that you're doing is really for your kid, for your family. And that work can wait too. So be present for that, that being your family, right? That like your work can wait, family can't. Time is too precious too, and and that's we all know it's something that you don't get back. So be present for your family. Um always like family first.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I love that. It's oftentimes we forget why we were doing this in the first place, right? This is why we we went to work and grinded.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yes, yes, yeah, it's definitely easy to lose sight in that. So I guess that's like another thing too. Just like remind yourself why you're doing it. It always kind of goes back to like the question of why. That's always always good to know the why behind things, but especially in something like being a father, being a parent, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

I love that, man. Um, last thing I'll ask, it sounds like you got tremendous support at your current gig, um, and even around any specific stories you can share of how support whether your manager or your team was. And because I think a lot of people as well, to overcome that stigma, one of the things I'm trying to do is like give them different, like, hey, it's if even if you're going through it alone, like your your other people out there that have gotten really great support, or here's what really great support looks like, or bad support, and you should stay away from this support.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

That's thank you, thank you for bringing this up. Um well, it reminds me back to, you know, shoutouts to our when we you and I had met uh back at the uh the San Francisco startup, right? Um, and we know how startups work, and that was my life growing up before Google. I've never worked at a company like Google. It's always been startups, right? So I was very fortunate to have very supportive colleagues and especially my manager to let me know that it is all right to sign off and you better sign off, right? And be present for your family. Like we'll we'll we'll be fine. We'll be waiting for you when you get back. But specifically, my manager uh she went through three Matt Leaves at Google. Now, as you can imagine, this made it super easy and very fortunate for myself going through Pat Leave. Um, you know, she understood as an amazing mother and parent she is about the journey that I was about to embark on as a dad. So her support was just so natural, uh, so understanding and very caring, which meant everything to me and made my life easier uh going into Pat Leave. So yeah, actually, huge shout outs to Jenna. Um, definitely a favorite of mine. It was was a really big impact in my life.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

That's amazing. Well, Sam, this has been great. Um, thank you so much for your time today. I'm sure I learned a lot. I mean, that question around why am I doing this is gonna have a, you know, I think I'm halfway through my my lease. I'm gonna constantly be asking that for sure. Any way you want people to connect with you or learn more if they're like, this guy's dope. I want to learn more about his music or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Um, yeah, you I don't have a music insta, but you can find some of my content. And um, I am currently working on an EP. Um on social media, you can find me at SOH04, uh, on Instagram specifically. So follow me, give me a follow there. And um, yeah, also feel free to message if uh you know you've listened to this uh podcast, this amazing series that Dom runs. Um and always happy to give advice and support in any kind of way, um, from father to father or father to parent. Um yeah, we're all in it together, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah, I love that. Thank you, man. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Thank you. Thank you, Dom. Always a pleasure, man. Thank you for having me.