His Wife Asked Him to Prove They Weren't Okay. He Had No Answer.

Mitchell Phelps is a father of one (number two is weeks away), Cleveland-based community builder, and the man behind the Daddy's Trollers Social Club. In this episode, Mitchell gets real about the self-imposed pressure men carry into fatherhood, the financial stress they manufacture, the provider identity they inherit from society, and the moment his wife asked him to prove they weren't okay, and he couldn't.

He walks us through his 12-week parental leave with his first child, what it actually looked like to be present through the hard parts, and how he navigated loneliness after relocating to a new city with a newborn. A therapist's simple question, "have you been around people?"  changed everything. That led Mitchell to connect with the Daddy's Trollers Social Club, a community for dads that started in Dallas and now has roots in Cleveland.

We also get into male postpartum depression (1 in 10 men experience it  and most don't even know), why "daddy bootcamp" is missing the mark, and three practical steps to find your people when you don't know where to start.

If you've ever felt the pressure and couldn't explain where it came from, this one's for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I believe one in ten men actually experience some signs of postpartum depression, which it's 10%. Financial pressure is the number one thing that causes stress for anybody, right? No matter where you are and who you are. I was just creating random numbers in my head saying this is how much we need to thrive as a family. I feel like men, we apply pressure to ourselves. I feel like it comes from society that says, hey, this is what men are supposed to be, think, feel, so on, right? I think some of it is probably good and accurate, but a lot of it is very unhealthy. For adding a number two, that feeling starts to creep up again where it's like, all right, I need to make some more money, need to start another side hustle, do all this stuff. I feel like we're totally fine. We're gonna take a step back. We have the finances we need. We're prepared financially already before even having children. And uh kept asking her, like, hey, are you okay? Are you okay? And she's like, Yeah, I'm totally fine. And then internally, I'm just sitting here thinking, like, I am not okay at all. My wife encouraged me to go see a therapist, actually. And the therapist stated.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Today I'm joined by Mitchell. Mitchell is a leader in sales, he's a community builder and soon-to-be father of two. I'm excited about this because Mitchell brings just, you know, a perspective that a lot of men quietly wrestle with. We're gonna talk about the expectations to be not just a husband, but a father, how to level up, how to build more for your family. We're gonna talk about what does depression look like in men and fathers. This one is honest, reflective, and very real. I'm excited to jump in. Let's go. All right, folks. Uh, thanks again. I'm excited for this conversation. I'm gonna turn it over to our guest today, have him introduce himself, tell us, you know, where he's at, um, family, and yes, he's a dad because everyone we have on here is a dad. So I'll turn it over to you today to kick it off.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Awesome. Thanks for having me on. My name is Mitchell Phelps. I'm coming out of Cleveland, Ohio. I'm a proud father of one and one on the way. And so I've got a uh two and a half-year-old daughter, um, and then also I've got a newborn that's gonna be born in a couple weeks. And so geared up for that. But yeah, excited to be on. Love fatherhood and uh love just building more community and meeting other dads as well. So thanks for having me on, David.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yeah, man, this is exciting. I'm excited about this. Uh, there's several folks that I've mentioned, Mitchell. So we're excited to jump in, um, learn about his story. You said there's a second one coming, a couple of weeks. I'd love to hear where you're at. Um, and if you could just like juxtapose that up compared to where you were, was it three years ago, two and a half years ago?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yes, it's so it's so difficult. It's so different because I feel like for the first child, we were so prepared. My wife and I, we were like locked in. We had the spreadsheet of to-dos, what we needed to do, the specific dates on what we needed to do by when we're good to go. I feel like the cribs was set up like you know, a month in advance. Everything was was in order. For this one though, I high key forget that we're having another child every day until it's like a reminder of like, oh yeah, like it's a couple weeks away. We need to start preparing stuff. So uh just not as prepared, but um, I feel like we've we've got enough things in order. We've been we've done the rodeo once, so it shouldn't be too bad.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, I've often heard it becomes a little bit easier because the things you stress out about, it's almost like because you were so prepared the first time, this time around, you're like, ah, we've we've got it in the bag. Um, as you mentioned that the preparedness, where does that come from? I'm curious about um I very few times I talk to fathers or non-birthing parents that they're so prepared. Like, walk me through what was going through your mind back then. Um, how did you get to that place of preparedness?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I say it all comes from the partnership. It was it was my wife. She's she's very type A and uh needs the list, loves to check things off the list. I'm more like go with the flow. And so um I'll say uh lean on her for being extra prepared at all times, and I just kind of follow her lead in that in that sense. Uh, but I think too, the other aspect is just the the sheer excitement of something new. I think that leads into how prepared you actually get because you start thinking and dreaming of like, oh, we need this, we need this, oh, this would be cool too. And you start kind of going down that path. And I think with the second one, it's still just as exciting, but again, you've been there before, so some of the things you already have planned out.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah. Um, as we were talking before in some of the research for folks that know you, one of the things that you do talk about is the pressure, as though you were prepared, you were very prepared, but I'm curious. I actually don't hear a lot of male or men talk about the pressure that they face out loud. Like it's almost an internal thing. I I'm curious if you remember the first time you probably said that out loud to someone, or the first time you realized, wow, this is a lot of pressure, not just as a baby, you know, for the baby, but for my marriage. I'm curious if you remember that.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

First time I probably vocalized the pressure was probably to one of my close friends or one of the guys I went to school with that also is in a similar uh lifetime frame as me as well, with kind of the things going on uh as far as being married and then also having children around the same times. It was um, I feel like men, we apply pressure to ourselves. I feel like it comes from society that says, hey, this is what men are supposed to be, do, think, feel, so on, right? I think some of it is probably good and accurate, but a lot of it is very unhealthy. Um, and I think leads into things that are toxic. Um, but I think when we think about the pressure that that's felt for me, the pressure I immediately felt was when I got married. I was like, okay, I'm the head of the household now. I need to be able to provide for my wife and our future family. And so that added some pressure. But then the second piece was when we had a first child, and I was like, oh, all right, this ramps up a little bit. Now it's not just my wife and this future family. The future family is here, um, and I need to be able to provide and step up uh for that family. And so I think um as we're adding a number two, you that that feeling starts to creep up again where it's like, all right, I need to make some more money. And you start another side hustle, do all this stuff. But again, like the pressure's just man-made. Yeah. I feel like we're we're totally fine. We're gonna take a step back. We have the finances we need, we're prepared financially already before even having children. Before I got married, I was prepared to take care of um a wife as well. So I think the pressure's just things that we add, but not not necessary.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

I'm curious if um it's two and a half years after Did you get a sense of where that pressure came from? Was it the father? Was it just, you know, you said the folks he went to college with? Um was there a route to that?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

The route to the pressure. Good question. Um, I don't think I don't think it came from my father at all. Um, I think it's truly just from society. I feel like society kind of shares and tells this story and paints this picture of what the traditional role of a father is. And I think historically we kind of uh have some of those things trail into where we are today and present day as well, where present day is just totally different. I think the household uh is shaped and looks different from what it used to, and so I believe that us in our minds, we need to translate uh what that looks like as well. We've got more of a shared, a shared sense of pressure nowadays uh within these households too, particularly the two-parent households. And I think for me, that's been helpful to be able to lean on my partner and say, hey, all right, cool. I don't need to stress as much. You're holding stuff down, and we're holding kind of equal weight here as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Uh was there a specific point? I'm curious if there's like a story or anecdote that's coming up to you that like you realize there was a transition. Either it was, wow, why am I putting myself so much through so much pressure, or was it your partner that said, let's up here? I'm curious to hear.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah, I think um it definitely came from my wife telling me, I don't know why you're putting this pressure on yourself, and I don't know where it's coming from. Um, because I think it was one one one night I was just like, yeah, I finally verbalized it to her and told her, hey, financially, this is how I'm feeling. Like I feel like I need to, you know, make more money, be able to provide, and so on. Uh and then this is how I'm feeling from a work standpoint as well. Oh, we've got we've got the baby here with us. Yeah. Our our co-host. I love it. Um, but yeah, so it was verbalizing with my wife and just telling her how I was feeling. And it came to a point where she just said, Where does this come from and why? She's she's like, Mitchell, we're fine. And I was like, No, we're not. And she's like, Tell me how we're not, and I and I couldn't tell her. Yeah, and that's when I realized that it was completely made up, and it was just false pressure putting on myself um and creating that barrier uh for and mental load um on myself.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, oh man, that's that it's it's interesting when people close to you speak to you in truth and in love, and it's like it it just takes someone outside of us to like speak to that, you know. Um one of the words out on the line here you'd mentioned earlier was the pressure of sorts, you know, create things that are unhealthy. I'm curious if if you could shed a little bit more light on that. Uh say that again. So creating um pressure that's just unhealthy on the street. Yeah, you'd mention unhealthy. I'm curious. Yeah, if there were any examples that you're like, man, this is just not what I should be doing or what I should be feeling at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

When I think about that and the unhealthy pressure, I think it it comes to a couple of things. So, like one, finances. I feel like financial pressure is the number one thing that causes stress for anybody, right? No matter where you are or in who you are. And so financially, I was just creating random numbers in my head of saying this is how much we need, you know, to thrive as a family. And uh we ended up getting a financial coach, and the finance coach was like, Hey, you guys are well and above what you actually need. Um, you're doing a great job, budgeting, you're doing a great job, future planning for uh family and and beyond. And so, like, why? What are you stressed about? And so, like, it really took that outside lens to say, okay, like financially, you need to just chill out, like you're doing just fine. And I think if I think about any other pressure, it's um I don't know. Honestly, I think it's really just financial. I think that's the main, the main piece of pressure. Nothing really else that I think.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Oh man, and and it's it's real. Like, I have a baby girl here, and I'm just like, anything you want, but I I just constantly been thinking about how to make sure. I mean, you know more than me. Now you're further along in terms of I think you might be starting kindergarten school. I'm talking about college and like all that stuff, where it's just like, we gotta be there, we gotta be there. Like, I don't want, you know, I knew the money troubles I went through. And I never want her to be in that position. I don't know if that's right or wrong, because then the idea is always like the person we are today is because of some of the struggles we went through, right? And so if we take that away from them, will they learn similar skills? And that's a whole nother podcast, man.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

It is. It really is a whole other podcast. And yeah, you just open up a whole whole can there. But I mean, the the reality is no matter how well off someone is, and no matter how prepared their parents were to teach them and educate them, like there's always something that they're gonna end up going through or lessons they're gonna have to learn. And one thing that I think about, um, I feel like I I heard this quote somewhere, I don't know where it came from though, but it's essentially stating that all of our kids are going to be in some form of therapy or need some form of therapy for something. And the faster that you gain that realization, the more ease of mind you'll have that you can mess up as a parent and everything's not gonna be perfect, anyways, no matter how how hard you try.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah, it it does help you to be just a little bit relief that like every generation is gonna try to break free, do something different. And uh even if we are trying to be different from our parents, as a result of that, you know, our kids are gonna be different from us.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yep, yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

We're gonna talk about uh your parental leave structure for a little bit because one of the things that we were trying to highlight in these conversations is giving people different menu items of what it's like to take parental leave. For the first time, I'd love for you to walk me through um what was that like? Um, how much time did you take off? And what was the benefit for you? And I would love for you to kind of contrast that to where your head's at going into this parental leave, like things you hope to achieve now.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

So for my first parental leave, I ended up uh I was fortunate to have 12 weeks off, fully paid, which is amazing. So financial pressure, stress, you don't have to think about it, which was which was great there. Um, but uh for that 12 weeks, I ended up taking all of the 12 weeks all at once. So it was a nice three-month period. It's kind of like a sabbatical from work, which is absolutely awesome. But I think there was great value because it was my wife's first time going through a pregnancy, my first time going through pregnancy as well, having a child and just being able to do it together and being able to see every single aspect of it together was just fun. And seeing the struggle my wife goes through of I remember like breastfeeding, right? Breastfeeding was super tough for like the first week, or honestly, like first couple weeks, and then our baby would spit up a ton. And so for us being able to tag team through that, I feel like one, we just created lots of memories together because I wasn't like in the office somewhere while she's over here going through it with the baby just throwing up all over her. Uh, but we were able to be in that together and kind of go through the trenches together. So I felt like the bond as uh parents uh it was really helpful for that. Uh, and then it was just um even helpful for me to be able to see that okay, the baby does need the mom a lot more during this early time period. But let me actually see what's going through. Let me figure out okay, how do I actually add value uh to this child during this time and to my wife during this time as well? And so it was just good insight into that for me.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I think that's that's so big off uh yeah, we're going through that too, like just to spit in and um the interesting thing. Did was there a point in time where you were by yourself? I'm curious. There was not, no.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

There was not. Um, luckily, um well, I I gotta think. I don't think my wife left. Uh she went on a girls' trip, maybe like four months in something like that, and then I was on my own.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Is that the plan for this time around, or will there still be a sp uh like what does that look like potentially this time around?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

It's gonna look it's gonna look different this time. So this time I actually switched companies, and so I don't have as um great of a package, I guess, when it comes to my parental leave. And so I've only got eight weeks this time, so it went down in the amount of weeks, and then I'm in sales, so commissioned. I think we only get half of our commission during that time period out. Um, so financially, you know, financial triggers are are starting to go off a little bit, but um still super thankful and grateful for uh just having time off and to spend with my family regardless. But what I'm gonna do this time is I'm gonna take a couple weeks off just to assist up front and then finish the remaining six weeks either in the summertime or when my wife heads back on uh her heads back from her leave. So we can be able to tag team that time frame a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

But yeah, that's interesting. The thing that I'm thinking through is the community of support, and um you are building your own community. Um, one of the things that I've learned well, and even by having these conversations is building community as well. When did you realize that that wasn't there for you? Or or was that something you were always knew, or was that just like new with regards to fatherhood?

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah, so when I realized that I needed community, it actually came a few weeks after fatherhood. And I'd say within the within the first month of fatherhood, I started to just feel some just general loneliness and didn't really know what was going on. And uh my wife encouraged me to go see a therapist actually, and that's when I realized I was experiencing some aspects of postpartum depression. Uh went through a therapist and had an amazing experience. And essentially what I learned through therapy was the therapist stated, Mitchell, knowing you for a few weeks, it seems like you're a very social person. And they just straight up asked me, Hey, have you been around people and have you made friends? Have you built community? And I really realized in that moment that I hadn't at all. I was new to the city, like right before we had our child, we actually moved to Cleveland and didn't really know anyone. And uh, so I was just kind of at home with the baby and my my wife, which was again amazing. But um being able to have some folks outside of that was was was uh necessary uh to just to be stable mentally. And so from there, um that's when I was able to start reaching out a little bit and built uh the Daddy Stroller Social Club here in Cleveland, Ohio, uh, which was already an amazing uh program and organization uh that got started up in Dallas with a guy named Calvin.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Had you done therapy before that?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I had not, no. I had not. I've had um like different like coaches before, but not like an actual formal uh official therapist.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Uh was your hesitation going in there? I'm curious. I'm always like I've I've I've had my experiences.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yeah, yeah. Um there was not too much hesitation, I think there was more optimism because I'm just like, yo, I feel like I'm the type of person that I don't really share a whole lot about myself, like especially in detail, and it's particularly if people don't ask. And so for me, I was really excited to just get in a room where some like all the focus is on me, somebody just asking me questions, and it's their job to analyze my brain. Cause I'm like, I don't know what's going on in my brain right now. So if you could just extract some stuff, that would be really cool. And you're you're you're certified to do this. Um, so I thought that was like a a neat element, and honestly, I feel like that's a thinking through it, that's a good reframe for people to have on therapy. It's like, hey, this is this is your own personal um person to just do a full mental diagnosis of of you.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, no, I I like that, right? Like I've had therapies around that. I have a coach, and one of the things that I do think about it is that like it's too much to put on my wife, you know, like and you know, weirdly enough, if some other thing that I have is against my wife, like where do I talk about that?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, yeah, no, that's real. You need that that safe space.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Yeah, and I think that's that's really cool. Um as as we're we're we have a couple more to wrap up. Number one, how did you like I'd love for you to talk to me about the steps of like, hey, I'm looking for community, thinking about this. What are three things you'd you'd suggest to someone as like, I think I need some community now? You know, like what what what are like some active steps to do that? Because not everyone, you know, are probably as outgoing as you are.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

The first thing I would do is say to start with your own circle. So for starters, understand who do you have that's in a similar life um stance as you that might be, you know, a a newer recent parent that's just around your community. So I would say, you know, scroll through your contact list, think about your neighborhood, think about your neighbors, and so on, and reach out to those people first. If you don't find anything there, that's when I would start to go out to like a Facebook group, check Instagram, just to see if there's any community groups uh that are related with similar like-minded people. Um, also other organizations like churches or different community gatherings that might be going on to really just stay tapped into those. And I feel like those are easy places to be able to find some type of community, run into a few different people, um, and you know, catch wind of some recurring events that might be happening um within your within your location.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, those are really good. Um, can't go wrong with church, can't go wrong with just I think just showing up. Like one of my best groups has just been me like showing up to Tuesday night soccer, and like, you know, it was just something that we all were doing, you know. Man, we don't really talk much, but like consistently going here, like, hey, like you do this, you know, A, B, and C. Yep. So that was pretty cool. I I am curious about, you know, you talk about therapy, and a lot of people, not a lot of people talk about postpartum for male. What would you want to share folks about that and also companies? Because I think companies don't realize or even take this seriously as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

It really just comes down to awareness. I believe one in ten men actually experienced some signs of postpartum depression, which it's 10%, like it's substantial. And it's something where I remember even going through the daddy boot camp uh before having a child. It basically taught men how to there was a class that taught us how to, you know, do diapers and things like that. And they talked about postpartum depression, but only in the mom and uh the child carrying parent or child bearing parent. Is that the yeah? Yeah. So they basically taught us as the birthing parent. Yeah, they basically told us as dads were like, yo, just continue to. To frequently check in on your partner after birth. It was like, all right, cool. I can totally do that. And so, but I found out I was I was doing that and uh kept asking her, like, hey, are you okay? Are you okay? And she's like, Yeah, I'm totally fine. And then internally, I'm just sitting here thinking, like, I am not okay at all. Um, and so I would say that that's one reframe I would take back to the or one thing that I would I would reframe in the the daddy boot camp is hey, you have to check in on yourself as well. Because it it's not as much as the the the mother, but um fathers do still experience them as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

One of the things that like for me, it was you know, they always talk about the mom, like your their body changes for nine months, and us dad doesn't really have a big change, and it hits afterwards. So they've had nine months to fully adjust because their body's changing. We are catching up, so that's yeah, that's one of the big things. Um this has been great, man. Um, we'll love, I know you're doing some amazing thing where you're at. I love for you to share folks where they can connect with you and also join the community that you're part of.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yes, yes. Definitely um be able to connect with our Daddy Stroller Social Club Cleveland on Instagram. That's our main uh resource uh is on Instagram. We're gonna build out um a Facebook page as well so that you can connect with us there. And then if you just want to connect with me or get some more information on kind of what's going on, uh feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn. And then I'm on Instagram as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Amazing. All right.