There Is No Mountaintop | Soul Sessions with Imran Syed

Imran Syed sold a company that had been around for over a decade. He fought to keep the deal alive, became CEO to bring it back from the brink, and when it finally closed he turned to his wife, said "I did it," and cried.

Then he looked up and saw the next mountain.

In this episode of Soul Sessions, Imran takes us through the inflection points that shaped him. Switching five schools in five years as his family migrated from Saudi Arabia to Canada. Learning at ten years old that the only constant is the person in the mirror. Watching soccer from the sidelines as the only kid who looked like him, and holding onto it as the one thing that felt like home.

We talk about what it really feels like to go from leading 150 people to leading no one, why he runs toward the things that scare him, and the idea that quietly reframes everything: there is no mountaintop. No nirvana. No end state. Just movement, and the choice to be at peace with it.

If you are in an uncertain season, this one is for you.

Guest: Imran Syed, founder of Hatchproof, building a new way to think about performance and the whole human at work.

Soul Sessions explores the inflection points that shape who we become. New episodes this season focus on curiosity and the people who keep showing up through uncertainty.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey friends! Welcome again to another soul session. I am excited for my guest today. His name is Imran, and he'll show a lot more. One of the things that I was thinking through is we've been thinking about the idea of change and how we go through that. And this is a person who has been to many different countries, had to start over, had to be, you know, an author. And he's also done the thing that most people want. They've sold a company and brought a company to fruition and had an amazing exit. So we walk through what that means for him. How did he show for his family in those times what he's doing now? This is for those folks that truly want to hear something from that person who's achieved that success. And he's telling you that there was still more. That there is still more that he was yearning for, that it felt empty. And while he was grateful for all that he's achieved, now he can't stop. I one of the things that he shared a lot was, you know, being deeply curious, which is you know here in Soul Sessions what we think through. And then the other is about how is it that he could be the steady person throughout the storm. I think you're gonna enjoy this conversation. Let's jump in. Alright, folks, thank you again for joining us for Soul Sessions. Um I'm excited about this conversation because of what we've been trying to do in showcasing Inflection Point. I'm grateful for my guest, and I'll turn it over to him. Um for you, Imran, to introduce yourself. Um, and as like we like to say here, like, who are you without you know the job title?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Hey, so excited to be here. Um, first and foremost, I'm a son, I'm a husband, I'm a father, um, in those orders, and um I think I'm I'm a learner. So I I think I've been brought on this world to just be curious, explore, and uh discover who I am in the process uh of going through a journey. And I think if I can leave it with making a few lives a bit richer, um, and however they define that, um, I'll be successful.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

I love that. That is um one of the themes, and I I doubt you've listened to because this season hasn't come out yet, but one of the themes that's been coming up is curiosity. So um I think you're in the right place. Um as we've been talking about inflection points, I'm sure you've had a couple stories. Um the first one that comes to mind, I'd love for you to just set up the scene for me. Talk to me about that inflection point in your life.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, you know, I think the first inflection point in my life is um losing consistency. And, you know, I think um when we think about our children or when we think about our careers, we're really intentionally trying to make a consistent outcome out of what we're doing. And I remember a period in my life when um my family was migrating from Saudi Arabia to Canada, and I must have switched four or five schools in the span of four to five years. It was a really pivotal time, but you know, I came to Canada and went into grade five, you know, grade five was one school, grade six was another school, grade seven I went to a different school, grade eight, I came back to the same school, grade nine I went to a different high school, and it kind of forced me to very quickly um build relationships and take solace in myself, and that's a really interesting lesson to learn at that age, where the one consistent piece is you and the person you're seeing in the mirror, right? And how you're showing up, and having to rapidly recreate relationships across these different you know schooling systems until I got to high school and got some consistency, and I'm still very good friends with my high school friends today. Um that was that was like the first inflection point. I went from this like very consistent environment of going to one school to a lot of change really rapidly, right? Amidst that schooling also was like my family was shifting, right? We're moving from you know, apartment to a different uh house to different places, um, all in the general same vicinity of of Ontario or within Canada, but there was just a lot of change, and I think um many kids could kind of cower on that stuff, you know, that could be defining moments for them in terms of why they weren't able to have certain levels of confidence or have certain relationships or binding uh themes, but I really saw it as my superpower, I saw it as this ability to like morph and this ability to find the good in everything, and uh you know, taking inventory and everything that was around me and moving on to the next. Yeah. So that that was the first big, big, big moment of inflection for me.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Um I I have a couple follow-up. So about grade five for folks, I I I think it's similar to the American system somewhat. Well, how old were you there, thereabout?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Probably 10. Okay. Um, I moved to Canada in 1993, so yeah, about 10 years old when I got there.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

So we're about 10. You know, it's it's good enough to have lightly strong memories. Um coming from Soderbury, but I we haven't checked. Do you have siblings? You know, are you the only kid? What's that like?

unknown 5:39

I go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Yeah, I do. I'm I'm really grateful I've got three sisters and uh one brother. I'm the second youngest in the group, and um there's some age gap between my siblings, and so uh a lot of times they served as parental figures for me as well. Um, there was a period of time that after coming to Canada, my mom, my little sister, and my dad went back to Saudi Arabia, and so I was a 10-year-old being taken care of um by my my older siblings, which probably wouldn't fly today, but um it did at that point, uh for better or for worse. And I know we talked a little bit about sports in the in the beginning, but soccer was a big part of um grounding me, and you know, no matter where I went in that journey, and if I was ever sad, soccer was very consistent for me. Yeah, and there's a story of like um in grade six, um, we moved to the countryside, you know, my family came on a business visa, and so we ended up moving to a countryside. My dad had purchased a business, and um I didn't have any friends at the school, and I remember going to um where like the uh first graders and kindergarten kids would play, and um you know they'd be playing soccer, and um I would just sit there and watch, and um you know it just made me feel like a consistent part of my past. And I know it sounds really crazy. My little sister was in kindergarten, and I'm a seventh grader, and so I would go and check up on her, and um you know, I'd be watching these kids play soccer, and there was this one one kid who I can't even remember his name, and he was so kind, he was like a kindergartner or grade one, and he was saying, Oh, you know, you're new here, and um and I said, Yeah, I'm new here, and he's like, You haven't made any friends yet, your age, and I'm like, No, and um I you know just like soccer, and I like watching the kids play soccer, and uh it gives me joy. And uh then, you know, fast forward maybe six months, nine months, I I I made some friends at that school, and I was playing with them, and the kid came up to me, and he's like, See, I knew you'd make some friends, and um, you know, it was this heart heartwarming thing because um you know you sometimes feel like the outsider. Um and Damon in that school, I was the only person of my color, right? Um, and so you you you definitely get into these situations where um you feel like an outsider and you have to kind of adapt and um you know hang on to the things that are near and dear to you. And uh that's a great memory and fond memory of mine uh where sports did that for me.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah. Oh man, there's so much there. And and so for the folks know, um, usually, because I I consider I guess maybe 1993 might be slightly different, but I consider Saudi River to be you know a more upcoming country. And am I safe to assume that the move to Canada was for better pastors of sort?

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah, uh especially education. Okay. Um, you know, I was really fortunate I went to a fantastic school um in Saudi Arabia, but I think beyond like the university level uh was very limited. And um my father uh really strove for us to get educated and um you know think in a very free and progressive way, and uh the move was entirely driven by that.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, I I love that it's it's one of those things where even though like the thing that's coming up for me is that even though we might move for a really good thing, we oftentimes don't think about how hard, or we it's just hard for us to wrap our head out how hard a scenario might be and where you had to move around a lot. Um in in in a in a sense, sometimes you were the only. And you know what I'm hearing is that there are things that you had from the past that you had to hold on. And we're gonna come back to what you said earlier as like how do you make how do you make yourself the constant? So someone's there, because you know, the folks probably don't even know your background fully yet. So we'll talk about that towards the end. Is there another inflection point that's coming up for you?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, you know, I think in more recent years, um exiting a company, and um, you know, when I exited Instapage and um took it to the promised land, um, as we say here in the Valley, and um it was really surreal feeling, you know. I I think like a lot of folks, I defined myself in my work. I was, you know, uber passionate and obsessive um to a degree, and then all of a sudden, you know, you go from managing 150 people to nobody, right? And it's a surreal feeling, and um it's strange, it's awkward, right? And um it's something that you have to learn to move on to the next chapter about that I don't think enough people really talk about, right? Like we really identify ourselves with our work, and um I know I did, and after I reached that pinnacle of what should have made me very, very happy, it there was this moment of like immense sort of loss and immense sort of letting go of something, and you know, I Damon, I I worked really hard towards that exit, knowing I wouldn't be a part of the next chapter of that as well. And I still wanted the best outcome for as many people as I could make the best outcome for, and um, that was that was really interesting because you had to learn to go from managing many to managing yourself again. Um, and I think lessons of my childhood kind of came into it of like who are you, right? And um, what are you gonna run towards next, and you know, what are you gonna face? And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah. Is there a day? Because I'd imagine these things don't just happen, it just isn't like you know, there um, I think yesterday uh is a TBB and got acquired by OpenAI, and it's like, oh, the news just dropped, or you hear these things. These things are usually six to nine months in the making at least. So you know there's an acquisition or things are gonna be sold. Is there a day after all the paper is signed, you hand over the key? Is there a day that's vivid in your mind? Like maybe it could be sitting on the couch, you're like, wow. You know, I'd love for you to describe that day or that that where were you, you know, if that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, I can I can absolutely describe it. Um I had a vacation planned um uh to Paris and uh France, and um I was trying to close the acquisition or um before that, and I missed the deadline, and I you know still had this vacation planned, and you know, went on this vacation, and I pushed off a lot of different things, and uh it wasn't a vacation, I was working the whole time I was there. Um my wife can contest. And um, I think the last weekend, so the Friday, you know, before we left on the Sunday, um we finally did an all hands-on-deck announcement, and um the inquirer you know spoke to the whole company, and um that was the last step um in the process, and um I remember it vividly, and I don't think I'll ever forget it because I got off of that call and it was you know letting everybody know what had transpired here, and um we'd be moving over to this company, and I turned to my wife and I said, I did it, and I cried, and um there was a lot of emotion in that because um truthfully, you know, I I it's a very very long story and intricate, but um there's many points where it didn't look like it was gonna happen, and um you know we had to reset the negotiations. You know, when I became the CEO, I almost had to walk away from the deal to actually bring the deal back to surface and um get it to a place. And um there's it it was a lot. I I think any founder I tell you know who's building a company, I'm like, that's the easy part, you know, selling a company ten times harder uh than building a company, right? Finding that exit outcome. Um, and especially a company like Instapage that'd been around for over a decade and um had had you know a lot of complexities to it. So I I'll I'll always remember that because deep in my heart I knew that I was meant to be the person that was gonna get it over the finish line. And there's a there's a really famous Jim Ron quote that says it's not so much the the outcome that matters, it's who you become in the process. Yeah. And who I became in the process was a very, very different version of me. And that version of me is more valuable than you know any amount of money I could have earned because it it made me who I am. I know what I'm capable of doing, um, and I know how far I can push it um to get outcomes like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah, that's that's amazing. That's sort of one of our underlining tones here at you know the Soul Session podcast. And my brand is like who you are is more important than what you achieve, um, in a lot of different sense. There is this thread that's coming up um when you're 10 to now, um, and it's this idea that you've been able to tap into something deep within you. How does that show up today for folks who don't know? You're now leading, uh you're back leading again, um, smaller company, but you've started your own. And I'd imagine I always think about it where it's um, I don't know how religious, but this this is all the thing that comes to me in Genesis where it says like you stand in the face of the deep and and and God says, let there be light. Like that's what startups feel like for me. It's it's nothing. You start at nothing and you have to create some structure. As you're showing, uh, how does those stories and the lessons from those stories show up in the leader that you are today? I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, you know, I first and foremost, you know, I think the founder at um Instapage, you know, he's still a very, very good friend of mine, um, Tyson Quick. I learned a ton from him. And um it's funny because I spent so much time hearing him talk about his start and the early days. Um, but you never really feel it until you do it yourself. And even Hatchproof, um, Hatchproof, you know, the genesis for Hatchproof really started at Instapage, and I saw what misalignment looked like inside of the organization. I thought the solution was actually like fixing hiring and the way we show up to work and connect at work, but truthfully, it became more of a performance story and surfacing those signals and helping that lead to intelligence. But I think overwhelmingly I tend to run towards things that scare me, Damon. And um, I find that I grow the most in that uncomfortable area, and um this felt like the scariest thing um I could ever do. All right, there was a lot more comfortable paths I could have taken in my career, um, but I knew whether I succeed or fail, um, I'd get the most learning outcome out of this one. And it there's something really magical and different about um selling and standing behind something you believe in. You know, I've sold millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of stuff that wasn't something I built. You know, it belonged to Oracle or Eloqua or Instapage, and I you know still successfully was able to tell that story, and there's just this different feeling when the story is yours. Yeah. Right? And when the story, yeah, I I probably it's like how authors feel about reading their own book versus reading every other book, right? Yeah. Um there's there's a there's a different different feeling with it. And being a startup founder is very difficult, very difficult. Um very difficult, you know. It is um peaks and valleys, and most of the times it's valleys. And um again, I think if you're not sure of who you are and what you are made of, it will break you. And I've seen it break people that I thought were immensely talented, very gifted. Um, you know, and uh unfortunately it's not it's not just the best idea that wins, it's you know, execution. There's just so much that goes into it.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah. There's two things as we wrap up. Well, there's three things. The first was just as I'm hearing you talk, the first thing is around building a muscle. Um, and and I don't know if you were intentional about it, but I think you being in this place is like you've done hard things. And so there's something deep within you that over the years you've put yourself in scenarios to do the hard thing, and now you can look back on your track record to say, here's what I've accomplished, I know what I'm capable of. And then the second thing is what you're optimizing for, and whether or not it's a reason why other people burn out, but I didn't some would say they're optimizing for sometimes the wrong thing. Like in your definition of success, you can't lose because as long as you learn, that would be a level of success.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Absolutely, yeah. I can't fail, and you know, I'll honestly, like, I I I've shared this before. I have amazing parents, amazing parents, right? I was really blessed to be a part of their existence in this life, and um they made it so that even in failure, they were okay, right? You know, when you have five kids and uh you know you're you're migrating them across continents, and you know, my mom always says, no one finger is the same size, right? They're all unique, but they all come together to make a fest, and you know, that's the way I think about my siblings and stuff. Like none of us are the same, um, but we're connected in a in a very uh amazing way. And my parents always made it that go and try, you know. Like you know, when I when I was coming to the US, my dad was like, go, go west, you know, go explore, right? There's many, many parents that would have been, why stay here, you know, uh be with your family, you know, stay connected. But my parents have never been that way. Yeah, you know, I I'm super blessed. And I I think the other thing I'll I'll say is like, yes, I've been through a lot of stuff, but I I think the real difference is being okay with knowing that I'm gonna continue being uh through stuff. The truth is when you get to the top of the mountain, you're just gonna look at another mountain and say, I'm gonna climb that mountain. Um there is no mountaintop, right? There is no mountaintop. There is no nirvana, there is no end state. It is just this constant, fluid movement. And the faster you can understand that and be at peace with the movement rather than the endpoint, the more successful I think you can be in life.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah. Well, Imran, I think that wraps it up way nicer than I could have wrapped it up. Thank you so much for being here. Um, folks, we will link Imran's uh LinkedIn. Is there any other place people you'd want people to connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Uh, LinkedIn is fantastic. You know, um happy, happy to connect with individuals. Check out HatchBrew. And uh we're trying to change the way we think about performance, bring this whole idea of like the whole human to work through self-awareness, intelligence, and signaling. Uh, would love for feedback on what we're building.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah, please do. Um, we'll share more about Hatch Proof. One of the things I like about it is it's not just a resume. And and the thing is, in this world where AI fluency is needed, how do you, you know, often say, like you see a job description say, hey, you need 10 years of AI? It's like, that's a joke. So how can we, you know, go for how can we test for curiosity? How can we, you know, move for towards those things? And you're doing it from both sides because one of the things that I've learned is that as you know, people stay because of their managers. So, what if you could uniquely do that? And that's one of the wonderful things Hatch Proof is doing. So, everyone, thanks again. Um pleasure, Damon.