The Hidden Reason You Can't Let Go (Even When You Know You Should)

You already know what's not working. The job, the habit, the relationship, the version of yourself you've outgrown. So why is it so hard to release it?

In this episode of Soul Sessions, Damon sits down with Stephanie Coleman to unpack the uncomfortable truth most people miss: you don't hold onto things that have no value. If you can't let go, it's because something in there is still paying you back, just not in the currency you'd admit out loud.

Inside this conversation:

• The hidden payoff that keeps you stuck in familiar pain • Why your nervous system reads "toxic but known" as safer than "better but unknown" • The single question that exposes what you're actually getting from the thing you say you want to release • How to tell the difference between a season worth protecting and one you've already outgrown

If you've been white-knuckling a chapter that's clearly over, this one is for you.

Connect with Stephanie: stephaniecoleman.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hey folks, welcome again. Thank you all for being here on a lovely Thursday afternoon. As you all know, as we've been going through soul sessions, I've been having these conversations around changes. And I mentioned there are two sides of it. There are people that are actually going through these changes currently. And then you have practitioners who are actually helping people through the series of those changes in their lives. I'm excited for our guest today and what she will bring. As you can see from the title, it talks about autopilot and what that costs you, but it's so much more. So as we get going, I would love to turn it over to our guests today to just introduce herself. And as we like to say here at Soul Sessions, where are you outside of the job? I'd love to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Hi, thank you so much for having me. Well, who am I outside of this kind of job as a therapeutic coach? Well, I don't really separate my job and my private life because everything I'm doing is kind of tied to my profession as well. The way how I walk through life, how I experience life, I question life really brings um the insight into my work. And yeah, so overall, um I'm a person who is really curious. I have always questioned. Um in general, being very curious and questioning things in uh how the human mind works, why we do what we do. And that's the reason why I got into this field. So I, other than that, other than thinking a lot and working on myself, um, I'm I love to be in nature and outside.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Amazing. Is that a part of your background? I'm always curious about it's interesting hearing the theme of curiosity and about the mind about human psychology. So it sounds like that's been a theme, but you also mentioned nature. Is that, you know, is that where you grew up, or is that is there a special place, a special memory as you're thinking about nature?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Well, nature is I think very important because it really helps to ground ourselves, to bring us back to who we are. That's why nature always has been very important to me. And I grew up also in the countryside of Austria. And um to talk about my profession and what I'm doing and how I got to um um working with people. I started my business five years ago, but originally I am actually a social pedagogue and um have been working in the um mental health field my entire life. And um because as I said, I was always curious to understand how our mind is working and why we do what we are doing, and as a social pedagogue, oh I lost you.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

No, I'm still here. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Okay. Um I um realized I'm kind of um I'm I'm not able to do the work I want to do um that is um really truly helping people. That's why I um um started systemic coaching and continued with education, also in Canada. I moved to Canada some years ago. But um I think um overall for me it was always about how to support people and how to help people.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, I love that. It's it's oftentimes I often think that the um I often think about the idea that you can't give more than you've been given. And so it sounds like you've always been thoughtful, you've always been introspective, and and turning that around, being able to offer that to others. So that's amazing. Um that that leads me to the other thing. And so you have such an interesting background coming from Austria and Canada. Um you've you've you've different parts of the globe. What type of um person shows up right now in the proverbial seat across from you as you're doing the coaching? I'm curious about what types of people you work with and what what does that look like right now?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Well, it's a good question. I feel like things have been changing throughout the years, and maybe it also has to do with um because our economy, the world is really shifting, and there's lots of pressure and a lot going on. Um, there's a lot of crisis that people are experiencing at the moment. So, um, what kind of people are walking into my door right now? Men and women who are really reaching the point where they want to change things because the pain point, the pain is so high, the suffering is so high, anxiety because of change, sudden changes, um, life transitions. Um people who are coming to me, they are ready to change and they want to change. And I just had recently a client coming to me and she said, like, you know, Stephanie, um I wanted, I was thinking of getting like starting this journey with you a year ago where she was a referral. Um, but she it took her one year to actually get to this point where she was thinking of um starting a journey and working on herself.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Interesting. Um I I like that piece. What's coming up for me as you're saying that is um I oftentimes think about the last five years, the rate of change has been so crazy. And maybe before I often think about low-grade stress or low-grade stressors, like things that people could have lived with for a long period of time, but maybe in the last five years, it sounds like things have like escalated so much. And so now we're in a world or so much that's happening that people almost are at their boiling point. I'd be curious about when they show up, and it sounds like there's typically two types of people, and hopefully, you know, one more than the other. Like, there's some people like, oh, I feel like I need to change, but there's not like a major thing in my life versus I'm at my boiling point, and I don't know if it's too late for you to work with me, but I'm at my boiling point. What are some of the similarities or across um your clients that you're seeing when they show up and they're at that boiling point?

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Well, uh, there's lots of fear, lots of fear, overwhelm, stress. Um they're basically in fight or flight mode where it's difficult to either they're um trying to react and um make decisions out of fear, and they might that might lead to something really um to their disadvantage, or they are so overwhelmed that they are numbing themselves and distracting themselves with all kinds of things, yeah. The distractions we have. So to avoid to face those things that are coming up.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, there is, and and in, and in that, as I'm thinking, if I show up, oftentimes think that I may not have words for this. Are you the one that's helping them to see that, hey, here is a thing that you're doing, or here is the fear, or even the idea of fight or flight feels like you've just put that in a box. But I know it's not always that easy when they when they show up. Do they recognize that there's a level of fear, or are you working working them through that process?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Um I would I think I think they don't recognize that there's uh so that much fear. They might recogn they might recognize there's some um anxiety, but that requires already some kind of awareness. But a lot of people are still on autopilot where they are not aware of what they are how they are feeling, what's coming up, um, not connected to their bodies and minds. And um that makes it difficult for them to recognize what's actually there. And I can help them um through specific questions, guiding them, finding out what it is about.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Okay, I love this. And um unprompted. So you mentioned there's a couple words that stood out to me: awareness, autopilot. Sounds like you have a system. Um, so I'd love to hear as I I come in, you know, I might have lost my job, or I might be going to be rocky places in my relationship. Walk me through how you're thinking about getting to that person. Um, if there's a process, you can tell me. I don't know if there's like a five-step process of you know, awareness, breaking up, but I'd be curious like, how do you map that mentally of where this client is? Obviously, everyone's different to where I might want to, you know, to get them to how how do you how do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Um usually, well, I do have a there is a process, I guess, because I have been working my entire life in this field, supporting people, helping people. I've done that my yeah from young on. And um maybe I'm not always aware of the process behind because I'm very intuitive as well. And um, but if I had to name it, for sure the first step, the first step is always um, you have to imagine people coming, their lives are falling apart, maybe, or depending on how bad bad it is, but they might be very stressed out. Um, it's really there's in a fight or flight, um, it's really about calming the nervous system. Okay, so there are lots of emotions, heavy emotions, and um most of us have not learned how to actually process emotions, how to go through our emotions. That's why I mentioned earlier we distract ourselves, we numb ourselves, we are actually not processing what's coming up. So the first step would be if we would talk, if we are talking about steps, um looking at their emotions and also helping them name them, acknowledge them, feel them, because emotions are energy in motion. And when we if we don't acknowledge them and feel them, the this this energy is stuck, it gets stuck in our system. And um, we need to release emotions, we need to release this energy. If we don't release this energy, it's um just being suppressed, and more and more things are coming up, binding up, and um that's how also um anxiety or depression comes up, like why we feel suddenly so pressured or we explode out of the blue without any specific reason because we have not been processing our emotions. So, first step would be looking at those emotions, what's there? Um, and then might take some time, depends on the person, but the second step is very important. Step as well, acknowledgement. Why I'm talking about acknowledgement is um when we are going through change, because when things are happening, when life situations are changing, when we lose the job, the relationship, or whatever it might be, um we um we don't we we want we want to hold on to those things. We want to hold on to those things that we are about to lose or that we have been losing. Um it's very difficult to um really it's difficult to just let go. It's difficult for all of us, and that's why yeah, so that's why this step two acknowledgement of the status quo is so important. It's the acceptance, it is what it is, accepting the is-ness of the situation. This is outside of my control. I that's what's happening right now. I can I can't change it, I can't make it go back, go away or bring it back again. Acceptance and there is we also you have to work through acceptance. It's also um you know it does not just happen like that, that we accept, right? And umce we accept, we can I can help the person um find new solutions. Because once the emotions are coming, once we accept, we are open to different options, and that's when we are also able to bring in creative ideas and solutions. Because change does not always mean it's bad. We think it's bad because it's the unfamiliar, it's it's scary because we don't know what's gonna happen, we are not used to it. It's scary, super scary. And when we are so scared, when we are in fear, we cannot think clearly, we cannot think creatively, we cannot bring in new solutions. That's but you can also not um bypass those um steps. You have to feel your feelings, then the acceptance. Okay, that's what it is, and then what can come out of this? What's possible?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, yeah. Oh, there's so much there that we could pull on. So um I like that the first thing you do is calm in the nerves, calm in the nervous system. The I I don't know if it's Peter Levine, um, but I remember reading a long time ago the idea that you know, we are if if we think about like our us as animals, if we think about cats or dogs, whenever something happens to them, they shake it off and they move on. Oftentimes, we as um humans, we don't, you know, release the emotions that come. We tend to bottle it up. We think that the best way to deal with it is to bottle it up to not process it because you know we have this notion that emotions are bad, instead of saying, How could I, you know, become aware of what's happening in a non-judgmental way? And uh we want to come to this. It's like, how do I respond in instead of react? And so there's a version of what you're sharing is that okay, I think, oh my God, if so many people get this, you know. I was like, how do we just process our emotion well? Um, are there tips that you as I personally do a lot of breath work and I've been doing that for the last five years? Um, any other tips that you've seen or practice? Because that's one of the words I want to make sure I'm highlighting here that what you're you're not saying is that this is a one session and done. This is a practice that you're constantly doing. Are there practices that you've seen to help to if I'm on my laptop in my head for the last five years, how do I get back in my body? How do I get back um acknowledging my emotions?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Very good question. It's you know, it's most it's often simpler than we think, and we all we often think it has to be, we have to do so much or it has to be complicated. But it's that's a belief as well, right? Um, it's it's very it can be very simple. Um, it's it's always all about awareness, and that's all the work I'm doing. It's like all about awareness, bringing things to awareness and being aware of ourselves. And when we are aware of ourselves, we can be aware of our surroundings as well. Um, but to get back to your question, um it's really interesting. I think yeah, the way how we grew up and um we we never really I think maybe now things are changing, parents are more conscious as well. But back then we were not, we don't never talked about emotions and how to feel, right? And um breath work, those kind of things, perfect. Um, cold exposure, great. All those things, uh meditating, yoga, great. But I would go even simpler. Um it's really learning. It's simple but not easy. It's really learning when you're um when things are coming up a right, coming arising, you to notice there that there are emotions and to really pay attention to those emotions, to sit with them for a moment. Um emotions usually arise, they come up, it's fast. It doesn't take it's when you cry, it doesn't mean you cry half an hour. That's actually when we go get into this drama loop. Um, real emotion is really like it's fast, it comes up, and then we feel it, we allow it to be there, and then it evens out, it gets lighter. So it just wants to be released and acknowledged. So when you first part is like being aware what's going on, like that there is something going on. And I think the best way is like to um be find a um quiet spot for yourself where you're safe, where you can just sit down and then um look what's there. Ask yourself, talk to yourself. You can talk to yourself out loud or in and or quietly, but you can talk to yourself and like okay, what's going on? What's there? And then when when you notice, oh, there's actually really deep disappointment coming up or anger, it's like, okay, let the the disappointment be there, don't overidentify with it, but just allow it to deeply feel it. It's like going to this feeling of disappointment. Maybe you close your eyes and like, okay, wow, this is really painful. And you really go into this emotion, and sound may maybe it sounds silly to some of the people listening, but there's so much truth and healing to it. I have been doing this work for so long and helping people for so long. It's really oftentimes the most simple of things, and it starts with awareness and acknowledging what's there and just feeling those things coming up. And then often like after that, you can just move on and do things again. Like it's not that um you need to be like the suffering. Uh, can I talk about the suffering quickly?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yes, yes, let's go there.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Because um, when there is change happening, things are happening, life situations changing, and it's scary. Um, there is this resistance to change, and the resistance to change makes it harder to deal with change. And this creates suffering. It's the pain is not the problem, and the pain we can deal with the pain, and we should like we are alive, we are human beings, and it helps us learn, grow, be empathetic, um all those things, right? Um, so pain to feel those those feelings that are coming up, yes. But the suffering to drag those feelings on and on, like with you, just to stay in there, that's something we create ourselves. That's um part of being on autopilot and not being aware what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah. Um uh most recently, someone was hinting at that similar idea that we can't avoid pain, but suffering is optional. And uh we oftentimes get into those scenarios where we hold on, unknowingly hold on to things for too long. And that's what's causing us more. And and I'm gonna be honest with you, like you know, the people that are listening, and even myself, growing up, the idea that to sit with disappointment feels against everything that I've heard. Like, what do you mean I should allow that emotion and sit with it as much as possible? And then but what you're saying is hey, this is only for a brief. It's oftentimes probably gonna last much shorter than you think. It could be a three-minute thing, you cry, and uh not saying you're fully over it, but at least you've processed it to a certain point. But what that's bringing up for me is a question that um if if you're if high performers, you know, um, in sales or startups, they might think about progress differently. And I I know you have an interesting way of thinking about making progress in this work. How, you know, if I'm saying, like, oh, am I doing it right? Or um, you know, like I want to I want to know that I'm getting it. Um how are you coaching others or your clients to say, here's what progress looks like, here's what potential success might look like for you? Because I think this work is so powerful, but it feels In my head, like, okay, how do I know if I'm doing it right?

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah, that's a very good question. I, if you don't mind, I want to just go back quickly to feeling your feelings or acknowledging your emotions, sitting with your emotions. I also think for men, it may might be also slightly different. Um, I think I think maybe also for men, um, movement is also super important to process emotions, like being aware of your emotions, what's there, um, and maybe connected, like you don't necessarily have to sit with them. Go and do something with those emotions, with awareness. Like this is coming up, lots of anger is coming up. Maybe I'm going to the gym and doing a workout. So it's like you um, yeah, you you um use this energy to move it as well. And I see it in men, it's it's a little bit different how I we are different, and um, I think um my movement might be very beneficial for men, how to process emotions, also for women as well. But maybe for women it's more like sitting, but not to say that men shouldn't sit, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, but to get back to what you said with how what what does progress look like? Um I I think it's I like to measure it. Um well when I work with my clients and especially with clients I've been seeing throughout a long period of time, um, I'm I'm like a witness, right? I have seen them coming to me and then being on this journey, going through all those things and shifting and changing, if they are committed. Of course, I cannot do any magic. I'm just a guide, right? But if someone is committed and open to change, then everything is possible. Um, but um progress, well I like as I mentioned, I'm like a witness. I do know where the where my clients have where they started, where they wanted to go, where their goals are. And I can see the change, and I would uh mention throughout the journey what I'm seeing, what's shifting and changing, and I would ask them as well like, do you see the change? Because it's interesting when we are starting to change, we don't recognize necessarily recognize it ourselves. I don't know if you just experienced that. You because we we work on ourselves, we change, we have experiences, and then you meet someone who you haven't seen for a while, and this person says, like, wow, you have changed so much, like you've grown so much. Have you had this experience? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

I I've I've had people in multiple areas of my life in in multiple different seasons, um, you know, different people who knew me. And that's why sometimes it's good to have people that you know you you haven't seen in a while, and you're like, wow, like something's different. Um, and it's hard because there's also sometimes the type of work that you're talking about affects so many different areas of your life. And so for me, you know, becoming aware and you know, just aware of my emotions and how things are affecting me made me a better conversation. So I can sit in a conversation like this and say, okay, what that's bringing up for me, like it's I can reflect that back to you in so much different ways that I might not have been able to do five, 10 years ago. And, you know, I might have been working on this idea of like, okay, you know, processing and moving emotions because I got too upset. Like I didn't like how I was when I was getting upset. Or I used to do sports, and whenever I didn't win, oh my God, like my emotions were all over the place. And so having to do that work have affected so many different areas of my life that I can now show up in a different way because not only do I have a practice of processing and moving that emotions, um, it has helped me to be more present in so many different different areas. So I've totally seen that. And even to the point where, you know, you kind of hinted at it where there's a lot of things that I might be working on, or it's it's it I know it's like several weeks. And one of the things that I consider progress for myself sometimes or my wife or people in my life is there's a reaction that I I know I used to have, or a thought that I used to have, and I might find myself catching myself in the moment of like, oh, wait, I don't think like that anymore. Or I used to be in a funk, and maybe it takes me three days to get out of the funk, but now it takes me three hours, you know. So just these small things, um, also as well. Like it's other other people have seen it, but also me just like, you know, it's small wins of like I used to blow up when I get, you know, this news or or this type of thing happens, and now I'm I'm a little bit more um able to quickly rebound from certain scenarios like that.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Um it seems like you have been able to reflect on yourself so much more, and that's why that's why you see the change, and uh you you kind of can measure it, right? You see how it has been in the in in the past and what's possible now, and um that's that's because you have been changing, creating more awareness, being less and less on autopilot, and um and you said something interesting reacting. I don't know, I would like to touch base on reacting versus responding as well. Yeah, that's that would fit in there right now. Um it's also um it's about learning how to respond to situations, people to life, and not to react. So when we are on autopilot, we are reacting, we are not aware of what's happening, and um the goal is when we start becoming more aware that we can actually respond to situations, we can this we have we are in control, and we when we are reactive, we are not in control.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, it's when when you're saying that the there's a word that comes up to me is like capacity and expansion, and uh what I mean by that is in in a lot of scenarios, if we've only known one thing, the idea you might be saying to a client, like, hey, another way of handling this is possible. But because I only know one thing, it's it's hard for me to even imagine that I could become that person. Because at any given moment, you do have a choice. And oftentimes we don't think, like, even when you're an autopilot, you're not choosing. But even just hinting that, like, wait, there is a moment to get out of the road, there there are opportunities for you to reframe what's happening. And instead of quickly reacting on autopilot to respond in a way that's more truthful to you. I think that feels like um the question I often ask myself, like, how might I expand my capacity to include the different facets? So instead of thinking there's only A or B option, what if it's, you know, both things can't be true? What if there's option C, D, and E? And I think that's so important of even a question that I might continue to ask myself in different scenarios. And then um, it's how am I am I reacting or am I responding? And how might I expand to um to see what else might be possible? And and that does take work, right? I'm not saying that this is like a thing that you happens overnight, but it's it's it's questions like these that should spark something in the person who wants to change that then oftentimes think about it, it's the thread that you pull on that continually moves um to to to to to the change that you might want, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yes, totally. Um I just had a I had so many thoughts. Um yeah, um, well, reacting and responding. Give me a second here. Um, it's gone. Maybe it will come back.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Okay, so last two things. Um, and if it comes back, let me know. But I think it might the two things I've been thinking about, one of them is near and dear to my heart is play. Um, because there's a version of this of like we've lost our playfulness, and I've been wrapping my head about how might this help? Because we think about this as work, but oftentimes if everything feels like work, do we ever we don't want to do it? Um, and then the other one is intention. So whether it's intention in the small thing, but also intention in playing, right? Like I joke about the I was at the track recently, and there was one of those, I don't know if you've seen like hijab bags, bags that they left out, or a sandpit. And I was like, I'm just gonna go jump in the sandpit. And it was like an intentional just being playful or getting on the swing set, and it was only for five to ten seconds, but something within me was just like, yeah, I'm glad I did that. Um, I'd be curious, like, how how are you seeing that? How are you playing around with that with your clients today?

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Yeah, well, playfulness, um super important. It's like um connecting with your inner child. We all are having like our inner child is with us, right? Um, and I think there is so much pressure um for a lot of people, um, how to perform, um, and um to there's so much control as well, like needing certain things need to things have to go a certain way. Um, when you are in this kind of state, it's really difficult to be playful. But why is it good to be playful? Why is it good to connect with your inner child? Well, it brings in some lightness into your life. How did it feel when you did um jump into this pit of sand?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah, I felt free. I felt, you know, like you mentioned, like I was breaking the script. It was almost like, oh, you've heard it said you shouldn't do this, or you've heard it said you shouldn't do that. And there's this like um, like who says who? You know, like that that's like kind of the the thought that was going through my head as well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Here we go with those limiting beliefs. That's also a big part. Like it's not only um being on autopilot also means um we all have our limiting beliefs, the beliefs we the way how we grew up, how we have been conditioned, the things we think about life life, and everybody has different opinions, right? And that's that creates our world, how we define our world. And once we start opening up, that's also when you get out of autopilot, and that's when you can be more intentional as well, because intention being intentional means um being not on autopilot, it means like being aware of what you're doing, why you're doing this. It's the energy behind your actions. So can there can be two people um speaking speaking the same words, but the meaning behind the words might be completely different. One person speaks those words, and the energy behind the meaning behind it is more like, oh, I need approval so badly, I want to be seen, or manipulation, or whatever it might be. The other person's intention, the energy behind might be like, oh, I want to connect, I want to be honest, like whatever it might be. So intention, same words spoken, but the energy behind the intent, intention behind it is different. And that's also something we can pick up on and feel, even though it's not visible, but you can sense it. We can sense energy, we can sense the what's behind it. Why um sometimes when you speak to people, it feels like you can feel their authenticity, or you've you can feel that's honest, and you can open up and and then sometimes you feel like you need to guide uh be guarded and you have to be careful. Like it's it's intention is getting out of autopilot and being aware of how you do things, why you do things, you are seeing the bigger picture, you're seeing the entire picture.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Yeah, yeah. That's oh that's there's there's something there about you know the energy and intention, and how is it that it's interesting, like as you become more aware, you can also pick it up in others, right? And it's like if I become aware of the intention and the energy and intention flowing through me, it's easier for me to pick up whether someone is genuine or not, or you know, when something's blocking there. So it's this this interesting play between interpeople, um, internally, that's that's happening. Um, oh my God, so much, so much. We've covered um types of folks you've you've you you you know, you handle you your clients. We're talking about awareness coming from autopilot, calm in the nervous system, acknowledgement, which is also big, and just you know, acknowledging the situation of what it is. As you're wrapping up, and curious if there is any questions that you know you might want people to walk away with this session with, or any last parting thoughts. Um, you know, as people are thinking about, like, hey, am I an autopilot? What should I be thinking about in moments of crisis? Um, yeah, as we wrap up.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Um well, we don't know when we are on autopilot. That's the thing. When we are in crisis, and we we are not aw, I don't think anybody's aware when we like to no one will say, like, I'm on autopilot. It's it's you will recognize that you're on autopilot when you are having difficulties dealing with things. And um, as I said, like um it creates more suffering and we are holding on to things, right? So that maybe might be helpful for you as an indicator to see, like, oh, um, maybe there's something to explore to open up a little bit. Maybe there are more colors than black and white. Maybe there's something in there's something in between. Just to, I would say, just start questioning more. Question things why you do what you do. And often we do the same things every day, and just uh start in the with the little things to question and see why you're doing what you're doing. And um yeah, yeah. Maybe one question you can ask yourself is when you're when you realize something, when you realize something is not good for you, why would it be difficult for you to let it go? What's the value it still carries? Because um when we notice, okay, that's not good anymore for me, and uh, maybe I should change, we often still hell hold on to those things, although we know it's bad because we are used to those things, and that it feels familiar and it's it's a good feeling, like it's it might be harmful or toxic, but it's like I know what it is, and the the familiarity wants us to stay there, feel safe. Yeah, and so that's why it's hard to let go. So if you have a hard time letting go, maybe ask yourself what's what is the value that's that it still holds for me? There must be some kind of value. Because if you notice there is no value, actually, there's nothing really, then you can go and start the process of letting go and changing. But if as long as there's some value, it's where you need to look at it because as long as there's value, it's difficult to change.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, it it is. There's two things. Number one, um, one of the things that we say here at a soul session is that the question is more important than the answer. Um because you know, so many people are afraid to question things in their lives, and oftentimes the right question, whether or not you arrive at the answer, but it it it sends you off seeking something or it jolts you out of it. And like you mentioned, that man, that that is so um good, the idea that like you don't release things that don't have value. Um, and so if something is it it's serving you in some way that you may not have recognized. Um so good. Um Stephanie, thank you so much. Uh, where can people connect with you? I know we have some stuff that we'll send in the wrap-up, but just if there's any cool things you have coming up, where can people connect with you in the best way possible as we end today?

SPEAKER_00 39:47

The best way is on my website, stephaniecolman.com.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

All right. So thank you, everyone. Um, we'll drop the link and then um for the recap, everyone will have it. Thank you, everyone. Thanks again, Stephanie.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Thank you so much. Thank you.

unknown 40:06

All right.