What Men Need at Home and How to Ask for It

High-achieving men, leaders, pro athletes, and founders often look great on the outside. But at home, many are struggling in silence. Therapist and coach Sulonda Smith joins the show to talk about the real cost of provider pressure, why men have a hard time asking for what they need, and how to build better communication without feeling weak. This one is for the man who wants peace at home as much as he wants success at work.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey friends, welcome again. I'm excited for this session and what we're gonna get into. As you all know, we've been going through seasons of changes. And what does it mean to be stable in moments of instability? And I I've told you that there's a lot of the sessions that we've been doing this season based around people telling their real story. But there are other sessions like this one that are practitioners that are sharing how they're helping people to refrain what they're going to. I think there's a lot that I can learn from this session. I think you will too. I'm going to turn it over to our guest today. I'm so excited for her to share just like a little bit about our background. Who is she outside of the work? And um, so the folks can get to know her as we get going.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Hi, David. I'm happy to be here. As you were speaking, I'm like, okay, who am I outside of work? Like it feels like my work, you know, is me in all aspects. Um, the one thing I'll say is that I have seven brothers, which is why I do the work I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Um, and I've heard all the talks, locker room talks, probably the ones I shouldn't have been hearing. But that's a big part of me is conversation and the work that I do is with high achieving men. It's with professionals, leaders, um, founders, pro athletes, you know, who are really doing a super job at work, but at home, it's a different story. They may be struggling, and all they want is peace and to get paid.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I love that. I actually did not know you had seven brothers. Um, as an only child myself, I cannot relate. Um, but I'm sure by the end of this conversation, people will understand the work you do and how that all relates. Um, speaking of which, I'd love for you to share. Um, what are what is some of the work, your day-to-day? Like a lot of people might see you on LinkedIn, but like the real work, like what drives you, what are the typical clients that show up um in your office, quote unquote?

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yes, my office, which is usually virtual, right? I do in person. So for VIP days, so we'll meet in a really nice, cushy uh conference room when they don't want to be a part of my my group work, but it's really listening to what's happening for men because I found or have found when I get them on the call for the first session, they take the whole time up talking about what's been going on for them. So I've become a really good listener and allowing that space without judgment. Um, and they reciprocate because they don't get it often. Barbershop talk is okay, but it doesn't quite fit the bill, right? They can't lay it all out. And and having a psychotherapist background and also a coach and advisor, there's that confidentiality. Um, and I won't tell anybody's business, but also understanding that everyone's life is very different and it's tailored to whatever I share for them. And we laugh. I love to laugh. So sessions with me, they're not so serious, and you gotta, you know, do this and that.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, yeah. Um obviously, knowing you have seven brothers, one of the things that you had shared with me was um some of your clients, maybe a lot, are black and brown. Is that one of the reasons why we ended up there? Because there's relatability. Um, or is there another reason why um specifically you'd say that this has been your focus?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Men in general is my focus. Um, brown and black is a special space for me because of all of the outside things that's like a force for them when they're on the outside, they're on the grind. Depending on who they look like, that grind might be a little tougher. And it is for black and brown men. I work with everybody under the rainbow. Blue, black, flat, polka dot. If you want some help, I'll support you. But yes, particularly because of the struggle that my brothers have had, I've taken a special interest in helping them because they don't want to come home to more drama. They're already in their masculine and where when they're in the world, when they want to come home or when they come home, they want to slip into the feminine part of them now. Let me say that. Let me let me say this a little differently because some men are like, I'm not feminine. Um we have aspects of ourselves, both masculine and feminine. Um, and men get to practice that when they come home because they're not problem solving as much, right? Because that's a part of who they are, but they get to relax and they want to come home to softness, they want to come home to peace, they want to come home to someone who gets them. That's the feminine side being practiced. They don't want to stay in the masculine all the time. And for women, for working women in particular, and there's not I work with women, I love them too, in an agave way. When they're out working, they're in their masculine. And when they come home, they too should slip into their feminine. So the home should be a sanctuary, not a fight.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, yeah. There, there's something I was making notes here, and this is for me personally, right? So I know in the past when I've done therapy and or coaching, there's there's reasons for me trying to find andor not find someone who is like me. One of them is I need someone to have understand uh what I'm going through, where um whether it's moving from Jamaica to America or what does it mean like to show up in spaces that weren't built for me? Like there are unique um circumstances that I believe that a person of color um who is a therapist, a coach, they can truly understand. On the flip side, there are times that I have shied away from going to a person of color because I fear that I might be judged. Um and yeah, I've seen that from it's interesting, right? Like even growing up in the church, and people say, Hey, why don't you go get a Christian counselor? I was like, well, maybe the things that I'm wrestling with, I just don't know if it's such a safer space, or the fact that I might be having this thing, a black man must not be thinking along those lines. Before we even jump into their main topics, I'm curious, like, have you are you seeing these like these thought processes come up in people that you're working with? And or how have you I hesitate to say the word convinced, but how have you created a space where people feel that this is someone I want to um work with? I am very curious about that. I said this is more in a uh a personal question, but I'd imagine others have thought through it as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

No, that's absolutely okay. And I definitely empathize with your situation. Um, our upbringing, how we were trained, raised. You know, I use the word trained because we're literally taught how to do things, right? It's not a um a bad word or an insulted one, um, I hope. But I use that term to say we have to learn how to do things. So, how do you learn? You go to training. Some training is formal, some is informal. Home training to me is formal, even though we treat it as informal. We don't address each other the way we need to, most people, should I say, um, especially for men, to help them balance not just being a provider, a performer, a problem solver, but being one who is in in alignment with his emotionality so that he too gets to talk about what's happening and not be judged for not being the man or a real man. I see that across all lines. It's a problem with the expectation and the tradition of a man. Because to me, traditions are there for that time, it works for that era and that time. And we're we're human beings, we're evolving, we're changing, so we should have new traditions. And the tradition that I've created was one that men can come and talk to me. I believe that when they hear I have seven brothers, like, oh, okay, so she did it. She gets it, okay. Let me check her out. And then in the sessions itself, I'm not judgmental. Um I empathize. Wow, I can't believe she did that. Like, why would she do something like that? This is probably why she did it, and why you don't have to take it personal because it was more than likely a biological response, which is what I teach to you. So I teach about the biology, the physiology, the mental aspects, the physical, and the differences so that you don't have to feel like you're being tortured, which a lot of men feel like they are.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

I was reminiscing with my wife recently, and we kept coming back to that of like it's like you're my safe space. It's like you allow me to be me. And oftentimes it's this idea of like creating a space where it's like the non-judgment awareness. I've I can say, based on a lot of my friends, that it is missing. Um, and if you can't get it in the household, you're gonna try and find it somewhere else. Um, and so I'm happy that you know you're creating a space for folks. Um, one of the things you did mention was about income, and there are two main topics we're gonna cover today. One of them is, you know, the the narrative of being a provider, and then the other is the myth of communication. These are all things I made up, but we're gonna jump into it. Um in the first one about income, though. I would love for you to paint me a picture. I'm sure you've had obviously no names are gonna be revealed, but the average guy that comes in and is talking about thinking about being a provider, like what is he going through? Where when or how is he often gets to you in what state he's at? I would love for you to describe that for us.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Absolutely. The call starts. I don't know what to do. I've I've tried this, I've tried that, and the trying usually is I've just gone quiet and listened. I tried to give her a solution, I try to be, I try to be still and understand, but she gives me this long, drawn-out story, and I can't keep up with what she's saying. It's not clear what she wants because she tells me different things. And so I help him pare down what's happening in her mind and why she's doing it, first of all, and the type of woman that he has. Because not all women are the same. You can have alpha, beta, omega, and then you have to look at how she was raised and her beliefs, her personality, and even what she's experienced in her dating or relationship life, where there are traumas, you know, where there's successes, all of this she's bringing to the table. And I don't want this to sound confusing and like too much work, but most men think they know what the issue is. I will tell you 80% of the time, it is not what he thinks it is, unless he's like really keen and probably a therapist like yourself or knows who she is. So he can't answer her question. He can't help. So he rarely opens up with, I'm scared and I'm worried, I'm gonna lose her on my thing. We have to warm up to that.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

There's something that you said that's like I never thought about, but I guess I've I've had conversation, but you said it. So I think there's like, what woman do you have? Because there's versions of um, I've I've managed teams, I'm a manager now, and I often say, like, my I'm only gonna be judged by the results of my team. And so, or I'm only as good as a manager as my team tells me. So I might think I'm the best manager in the world, but if my team is like, no, dude, you're not. Like, and so there's a bar where it's it's my not saying my worth is dependent on others, but the person that you have on the side of you. And so the type of manager that I am going to be will be determined by the person that I'm managing. And I think it goes the same for relationships, where you know, you're as only as good as a man, as a person aside from you, that like this per yeah, woman A might might need something completely different, or might she might not need as much. And the you comparing her to other people, and I think we come with a lot, a lot of baggage, which I'd imagine, I'm curious, right? Because whenever money has been an issue, um, it's a for me, a how do I put it? It's an ideology that I have that the the my wife or people that have dated in the past have never put on me. And so I came into the relationship with this ideology that I needed to be this person. I'm curious, like, is that things that you're seeing? Like, how do you get them to even start to think about like how are they in that state of being a provider? How are they thinking about this burden? And how do you get them to refrain um what they're going through and what the issue might even be?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yes, absolutely. They will say it themselves. So they may say something like, I feel like I'm no longer to provide, or I can't provide, I don't know exactly who I am. Things have changed. You know, a man's, and you can tell me if this doesn't apply to you, but typically a man's identity is architectually tied to his ability to make money, to his ability to protect, to problem solve, to keep his kingdom, his territories safe. And if he isn't able to do that, then either he becomes depressed, stressed, right? This is this is what keeps him up at night. At least this is the running story in his head. I am no longer able to provide. So, yes, having access to money, even if he makes less than her or more, his ability to provide is definitely linked to his mental health. And for him to believe he has value in the relationship. A man is always looking for a measurement from her. So he's I always tell women men listen in two ways. They either listen for praise or they listen for punishment. That means is she saying, Babe, this is so wonderful, thank you. I appreciate you. Or is she saying, You can't do anything right? How many times have I asked you to just change a light bulb? It's going on four weeks, and you haven't changed that light bulb. And how he listens is the measure. So if he's hearing more of the praise, he will do more, he will uh find a way to help her be happier.

unknown 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Did I answer the question?

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I feel like I went off on a tangent because it's like.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

So the first of all, it's the awareness of like, this is who I am. I'm wired this way. Now, as you said, the circumstances may not, I may not be the highest earner in the relationship at this point. I may not be, um, I may not have a job at this point. But number one, there's an awareness. And I guess that that second piece, what I'm trying to pull out, is like, okay, how do you then live with the tension so it doesn't become overbearing and you are trying to completely do it on your own? Because I think that's where it becomes detrimental, where you are, you know, you're not realizing that this is a partnership and you can share this with others off saying, like, hey, I can't change who I am. Here's how I get my worth. How can we partner together to make sure I'm my best version of myself in this relationship?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Absolutely. So that's like a two-part framework for me when I'm working with men. One part is self-awareness, his abilities, his value, who he is, have him believe in that no matter what. Like his presence, just being here is enough. Like I am, right? I am, like, I'm worthy of all of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

And then the second part is the language. We work through what will work best for his type of woman in terms of the communication, what words land, what words don't. We script it out, he practices, he comes back, he says, that didn't work, but that worked. And then we keep tweaking, like, is that is that hands-on, you know? And then so giving him the scripts while at the same time helping him be confident in using the scripts and not take it personally when she doesn't want to buy in right away. Because a man has to remember she has a whole accordion of emotions and moods, right? And they're always shifting and changing. And that does not mean that they are a direct reflection of his ability to perform or provide.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

There's so much there. That piece of um, just you know, your presence is enough is like hidden home for me because I've had to, I think the last 10 years, like I was so wired to perform, and like, you know, based on how we grew up, and I often joke like, oh, I got praise when I got an A, and that was only it. Like you only get if it was A or nothing in school, and or in sports, if you're not winning, it's nothing. And so, you know, I was never outrightly, I knew my parents loved me, but it wasn't an outright, it doesn't matter if you achieved anything, we'd still love you. And so I grew up with this thing of being in this place of feeling like I had to perform to be low. And so having to undo that work over the last 10 years to be in a place of, no, I even if I didn't do anything else, just the person that I am, like that was such a massive unlock. And then you mentioned something, which leads us to our second topic of today is communication. You mentioned it in the terms of language, but I am still struggling with this. I still sometimes have to pull for my feelings wheel and be like, which one of these? I felt like I missed this. There was this was taught somewhere in middle school, and I just missed it, you know. Um so I would love for you to uh I'd imagine, you know, like you kind of hinted at it. There is a well of information that men carry. There is just a depth of um emotions that we have. Like, how is it that we come to this place and we are in like we're we're struggling, you know? I would love to hear, like, yeah, how how did we end up here? And and how are you seeing people approach as they come to you?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Hmm. Excellent question. Um let me take a deep breath because this one is kind of loaded, right? Um, designed differently than women. The higher levels of testosterone, the lower levels of oxytocin. The oxytocin is the bonding hormone. That's hers, it's higher. That's why she wants to talk it out all the time. That's why she wants, like, she wants to go through every detail. If her friend was walking up the steps with some six-inch pumps and she sprang her ankle, you know, he doesn't want to hear that she had on a polka dot skirt and a striped shirt that was so loud and neon green that it was blinding people. He just wants to know is she okay and does he need the help? That's it. So he's designed to be very super focused. And a lot of times he's just singularly focused. And I think the miseducation, or that like you mentioned earlier, like I didn't get this, you know, in school somewhere or even from our parents, there needs to be an education program. Like in Japan, for example, before they teach the children numerals and numbers, they teach them how to be good citizens in the community and in their relationship with other people. There's a mutual respect and they understand each other from that perspective. So for men, if he does not have someone who understands that he is not supposed to act like her, then that's when it gets difficult. Most women address their men like hairy women, and most men address their woman like a hairless man. The conversations are different. So, in order for him to get what he needs, he has to know how to craft the question, right? And stay while she goes through her space of explaining and needing before she gets to the okay, I can help.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Did I answer your question? Yeah, and there's that is pulling on something for me off um that last piece you mentioned of like knowing what he needs, because I think there's a lot of times there's a language around it. Um, and that you hinted at it from the previous part. It will take practice. It's like having a child like my seven-month-old, you know, we're trying to get her to say dada, mama. It's like it's practice, you know, it's it's practice to say, um, eventually we get to the point where we say we're hungry, like what I'm feeling. Is it uh, or I used to have this version where there's a period of my life where I had headaches, and I'd be like, wait, is it um do I have headaches because I'm tired and I didn't sleep, or do I have headaches because I didn't drink enough water? And so you start to like understand like you number one, it's like, what is it that I need? And then can I use my word?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Um, I think the words is practice. I think a lot of us men are in this place where we oftentimes, because we've either shut it off, like you mentioned for so long, like we didn't get an education in like, wait, there's something there, it's okay to stay with it. And uh like you might be feeling jealous in that moment, or you might be feeling less affirmed. And so if you don't, it's kind of like if you don't understand like what you're feeling, how can you then start to even communicate for what you you need? And so I'd imagine, is that part of the awareness that you're talking about? Because I think great communication is like I've often said, if you're not in tune with yourself, it's hard to communicate with others. Like um, and and I know there isn't like a a straight-cut answer, but I'd be curious like how are you walking through people to get to that? Hey, we're practicing, but I'd imagine there's so much more before that.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Thank you for that. Yes, sir, that is correct. Men have a difficult time admitting that they cannot fix something, first of all. Even if they can't fix it. It could be a boss mistreating your wife, it could be, I don't know, she has a a sister who's just terrible. He can't fix those things, but he still feels badly and he wants to fix them. So helping him helping him understand that his limits or his capacity is not a sign that he's broken, that there's something wrong with him. Like we couldn't. Here, I say we're works of clay. We all come here to be molded, we can be re-molded over and over again so we can get these lessons. So, number one is to get the confidence and know that because you cannot solve everything, you have not failed. There's nothing wrong with you. It's the expectation that people have put on men that makes them think they're supposed to be the solver, coupled with a little bit of the high levels of testosterone. But we work through that to understand, hey, I'm going to teach you some tools that even if you seem like or feel like you're not doing anything, you are helping in more ways than you think. For example, and you can take this as a tool. When she comes to you and she is talking about something and she's going on and on, and you're thinking in your mind, oh my goodness okay, I don't know which she wants me to solve because she didn't mention several different things. Where to her, she only is mentioning one thing. But you're like, okay, how can I help? The biggest tool you can use in that moment is just to listen. I'm telling you, and I know this tool, you can get this all over the internet, but I'm telling you this, and I'm gonna give you a second piece to that, is just listen in the moment because of her higher levels of oxytocin. That's what she needs. She needs to empty her basket that she carries every day. Women put stuff in her basket all day. It's July, and she's thinking about what she's buying for Christmas. So she has to empty it, and that is with you. So just listen. You can even give her a time limit. Babe, food, pookie, whatever you call her. You know, I know myself, I'm good for five minutes before my brain starts going somewhere. And I think I read somewhere men do this. So don't get upset with me if I'm losing it after five minutes. Can you condense it for me? Because I really want to listen. Let her know what you can do and don't feel bad about it, and don't feel like you failed. We all have a capacity we have to live in. When we're at work, what do you do? Think about that. Because I also work with people with the qualities that they have at work to bring them home. Help her feel heard in that moment, and you're good for the night. You know, might be even some bedroom action. I don't know. Because if you do poorly, some women won't do anything, and you're like, oh man, right? So that could be very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah. And I think that's that's so good. That idea of just being listening, and um obviously I'm not perfect, and but like being on that journey of, you know, I think I've gotten better. My wife has this thing where she's like, I just want justice. I want someone to, I, you know, oftentimes she wants me to tell her she's right. But a lot of it is just like, do you understand? And most of the times I have no idea what she's talking about, or the scenario, and I was like, okay, I can I can see it's just the simple refrain. So what I'm hearing is aliency, you know, and just those simple things that goes a long way of like linquishing the need to have an answer or have it all figured out has like you know, made these times when she's stressed like so much better. Um I love that. The there's a version of it which we were talking about, is I don't know what how we got to this place, but and I've gone through it too. So feeling that like, oh, I don't know if she's gonna get it. I I'm so afraid to tell her these things. I'm so afraid to, or it might feel weird to say, like, hey, I read this thing, do you want to try it? Or um how have you, you know, coach people through that? Because it it can be a scary thing to say that, like, I don't know if she's gonna get it, or uh one of the things that I've seen too is that like you have this image that because the person loved you think the person loved you because you were ex. And and oftentimes you're like, if I'm not doing this, if I'm not saying this, or you know, she didn't get with me because I was emotional, like, and so the idea of bringing in emotion sometimes is is weirded out. Like, how do you walk through people through that as we wrap up?

SPEAKER_01 25:53

So it depends on depends on your woman. Again, you have to know who you're working with. And this is uh a crucial part of me working with men is gathering all of what they know about their person, right? So we can create a profile. Um and then testing what works and what doesn't. Some things are not going to land and she's not going to be happy about it, but you have to work through that. Um, one of the largest populations that I've seen are brown and black men who will they'll ignore the situation for as long as they can. Okay. And when he can't anymore, it's because now she's yelling, or if she's withdrawing, or she's not, you know, intimate with him anymore. He has to now do something. I don't want men to wait to that point. Don't cause that suffering for yourself. Women are so enthralled with men who can come to them and say, babe, I have no idea how to address this, but I really want to know. Do you have any ideas? Or, you know, I was scrolling, and this lady on somewhere, you know, on LinkedIn or somewhere said that men, you know, will shut down and their emotions are way down in the proverbial basement, then up on the shoulders like women, so he doesn't respond as quickly. What do you think about that? Have you ever read anything like that? Or get a book, right? I have two, you can get either we one for men, one for women, and you can dog ear a page, right? Or put it on the kitchen counter. She's gonna want to know what you're reading. So she's gonna pick it up and probably address you about it, right? So it doesn't always have to be a hard lead-in to say, babe, uh, I have an issue with blank, because most men can't do that, you know. So I give them like little soft lead-ins, things that can help him remember to do certain things or to say it in a certain way, but mostly give him the confidence to know that he can because the fear is she won't be receptive. She will gaslight him, she will make him feel bad for not doing that. You an adult, you should know that. You're a man, you should know that. You're this and you're that. And I really don't like when women do that and then they turn around and expect you to still do all the things that you agreed to do as a man in the relationship with a big smile on your face. This is not Cinderella's story, which is what a lot of women do. If you notice in Cinderella, men don't have a personality, they just smile and save. And girls watching that grow up thinking that about the man in their life. They don't show that he has an emotional capacity that he's missed. So that's why I love working with men because what she said earlier is you have a large range of emotions that you really don't get to tap into or have a safe place to experience.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yeah, I love that. There's this idea, and you keep going back to it, which I'm sure uh we'll share for the folks, um, knowing the person that you're with, that's you know, it's it's it's as good as any um practicing and bringing awareness. So good, so good. As we wrap up, uh, is there, you know, for the husband, for the brother, um, for the boyfriend, is there a last takeaway you want to share folks today?

SPEAKER_01 29:06

You are not broken, you are not failing, you're just operating with inappropriate tools. That's it. And you probably didn't even know they existed because hardly do we get the talk beyond we call like the birds and the bees talk. You may have gotten a little bit more than that, but they kind of throw you out there and say, Okay, well, you can date now. Well, you haven't equipped me with it. So don't be afraid to try some things and they don't work out for you. Okay, yeah, you deserve attention, admiration, support, and intimacy. You know, you are greatly admired. Sometimes you just have to remind people who you are and what you bring to the table.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Amazing. Um, Solanda, where can people find you? Um, so we can link it um in the show notes. But yeah, what in the new project you mentioned two books, we'll link those, but where else can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

My website, salandasmith.com. You know, there's a button on there. If you like what you see and you want to chat, you can just um schedule a time with me. My hub is LinkedIn, so I am on LinkedIn um all the time. That's my present place. Um, and the books you can get at Amazon. Um, you can get versions of um uh Kindle or either a hard copy. Um, and even on my email, drop if you have a question, send me an email and just ask Hey, heard you on Damon Show. I thought what you said was interesting. I'll be happy to answer the question.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Awesome, awesome. We'll link those and we'll sure to make sure everyone gets it. Thank you so much for coming. I've learned so much, and I know folks will learn so much from this. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Oh, thank you so much. It was an honor to share.

unknown 30:42

Thanks.