The World's Most Ultimate Hudson Valley Picnic Of All Time

I finally received my first Listener Question!!! (You can use the link in the show notes above to send in yours.)

So when listener Murphy asked how to create "the ultimate Hudson Valley picnic before it's too late," I embarked on a journey through picnicking's rich history and romantic execution. I learn some French, I learn some Basque, it's a worldly experience through time, seasons, and picnic traditions on the podcast today.

Matthew White, proprietor of the Hillsdale General Store, shares wisdom on picnic hampers and the theatrical experience they create. Betsy Jacks, executive directer emerita of the Thomas Cole Site in Catskill, walks us through one of Thomas Cole's classics: "A Pic-Nic Party." Colu Henry shares her pro picnic tips (and we get a recipe for her Snappy and Herby Potato Salad, soon to be featured in her forthcoming cookbook, out in Spring 2026), Rachel Merriam, a sommelier and owner of Fulton & Forbes, tells us which wines to get, and Tom Grattan, novelist and Official Book Reader for the podcast, shares his short story selections for a picnic.

This might be the most times the words "picnic basket" have ever been said in a single podcast episode!! And it's all for you, Murphy, anonymous listener who sent in their question. Hope this helps!!

Chapters

• 0:00 The Quest for the Perfect Picnic
• 3:24 The Magic of Picnic Baskets
• 7:39 Brief History of the Pic-Nic
• 12:40 Packing for the Picnic
• 16:25 Colu Henry on Picnics
• 26:48 Literature for Your Picnic Blanket
• 30:20 Wrapping Up: The Ultimate Picnic

Transcript

James Cave: 0:03

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Jiffy, the podcast about upstate New York that really takes you places. My name is James Cave, I'm the host here and I've got a unique episode for us today Because you see, we've received our first listener question. If you look in the show notes to every episode, there's a link that says send us a text. It works. It really works Because when you hit that link, your text messages will pop up. Then you can text me. You can write in with your questions, your ideas, your story scoops or just to say hi. I read every single one of these messages and I recently received one from a listener named Murphy that really piqued my interest. Murphy writes: "t's almost the end of summer and I haven't hosted a single picnic. I need to know how to have the most ultimate Hudson Valley picnic of all time before it's too late. Also, I love your podcast. I really, really love your podcast.

James Cave: 1:02

Well thank you, Murphy. That's really nice and I have to say I have never met Murphy. I don't know who this person is, but I'm going to dedicate this entire episode to answering their question.

Matthew White: 1:13

So for today's episode, it's the quest for the perfect picnic before it's too late, featuring advice like this If you're carrying bags with plastic containers of food, you need to up your game. Seriously, I mean that's sad.

Rachel Merriam: 1:26

Drinking something with a bit of sweetness at the end. A bit of ripeness is just perfect in the hot weather.

Colu Henry: 1:34

I think it makes it a picnic. When you decide the setting and you take the time to figure out what you want to make and what's going to travel, well, I think the picnic gamut can run pretty wild.

Tom Grattan: 1:47

Yes, I have a couple. When I was thinking, when you had mentioned short stories for a picnic, I somehow imagined it being read out loud.

James Cave: 1:53

That's advice from Matthew White, Rachel Miriam, Colu Henry and Tom Grattan, all so we could answer Murphy's important question how does one throw the most ultimate Hudson Valley picnic of all time before it's too late? Okay, we're running out of time, let's get started Now. Murphy, you might not believe this story, but it's true. I promise you, everything that I'm about to tell you really happened. Okay, because you see, when I received your message, it stuck with me, mainly because I had no answer for you.

James Cave: 2:24

The truth is, I just didn't know how to have the most ultimate Hudson Valley picnic of all time. And when I don't know what to do, I take to the road I usually drive around Columbia County to think, maybe sing along to the radio. And as I was listening to a playlist that Spotify made for me called Pink Pilates, princess Recession Pop, thursday Afternoon, a golden oldie came on, and this is where I feel like you're not going to believe me. But as soon as KT Tunstall sang, I looked out the window and suddenly saw it. It was a vintage picnic basket perched atop a free giveaway pile. It's like there's a picnic basket on the side of the road Right there on the side of Highway Route 23.

Colu Henry: 3:15

I immediately pulled over to take a look and see if this was worth something I should take in for this episode.

James Cave: 3:20

I don't know, old office furniture, office cabinet. But then on top of it is this giveaway pile and there's this picnic basket. It's got like, looks like a wicker, I don't know. There's like a wooden top. I'm gonna grab it. Could be helpful for this episode, Murphy, okay, I'm gonna take it with me.

James Cave: 3:38

I know exactly where to take this picnic basket and since I was already headed into Hillsdale, I thought well, I know exactly who can help me Matthew White. He's the proprietor of the Hillsdale General Store as well as HGS Home Chef across the street, and he's a renowned picnic host. I'm too excited. In his stores he sells many things for a perfect picnic, including antique picnic baskets as well as brand new picnic baskets. He knows his picnic baskets as well as brand new picnic baskets. He knows his picnic baskets. So I drove right over with our new picnic basket, or new used picnic basket, to see if he could help us. I've got my picnic basket here. I'm going to try to come in here and get this inside. All right, we're here. Hey, there, hi, how are you? Oh, I'm good, I brought something for you to see. So I was driving around and I found this picnic basket on the side of 23. And I wanted to know do you mind giving it a look over and giving me an appraisal? Here I've sold ones like this, oh, really.

Matthew White: 4:36

Yeah, this is probably, I'm guessing, from the 60s 70s. Maybe it could be from the 80s, but I think 70s. It has a wood top. It is sort of a wickerish look on the outside, but it's not a wicker hamper. It's lined. It's in great condition. I have one very similar that I have for $48.50. But this is a really usable, very handsome, good condition vintage basket. I might even put $65 on it. $65? Yeah, oh, you got it for free. I did.

James Cave: 5:09

I really did. I'm so excited. I'm glad I had this for free, but I also wanted to come and look at your selection of picnic baskets, because I really wanted to talk to you about picnic baskets today.

Matthew White: 5:20

Totally Well. I have new picnic baskets and the larger ones are actually called hampers, picnic hampers. They usually take two people to carry a hamper once it's loaded up. I really like a hamper because it's so much more spectacular when you crack it open and it's all there and you unpack it. It's theatrical, it's sort of Edwardian, it's magical and everybody loves that. If you're carrying bags with plastic containers of food, you need to up your game seriously. I mean, that's, that's sad, that's just kind of tragic. But I also have some antique ones. I have one. That one over there is like uh, now that's a proper hamper, look at it.

James Cave: 6:02

Oh, this one looks really great. So this is a an antique picnic hamper. I never even heard of a picnic hamper. Let's go look at it. Oh, this one looks really great. So this is an antique picnic hamper. I never even heard of a picnic hamper.

Matthew White: 6:07

A hamper is like a trunk. Really it's like a trunk. It's fitted out with little containers for drinks, for sauces. It even has glasses covered in a wicker cover. That makes it so, so charming. It has little metal, pre-tupperware. Anyway, that's a beauty that dates to about 1910, maybe 1920.

James Cave: 6:30

How can you tell? How do you date a picnic hamper?

Matthew White: 6:32

and a picnic basket. It's more just the quality of the silverware, which is full-on cutlery. This is something you would see at a table. It has sort of faux bone-handled knives that have a nice round edge that look like something you would have actually eaten with in Britain in 1890, 1870, 1890.

James Cave: 6:57

You know, today we think of a picnic as this outdoors event A blanket, a bottle of wine, maybe a baguette tucked under your arm. But it wasn't always the case. I looked into this and the word picnic comes from the French pique-nique. Okay, I'm not very good at French, but it was first mentioned in a French dictionary in 1694 where it was defined as a shared meal. Everyone contributed to Pique. P-i-q-u-e means to pick or to nibble, and nick N-I-Q-U-E was slang for a small or trivial thing. So it basically just means everyone brings a little something to pick at a shared meal.

James Cave: 7:35

It was often indoors and it was less about scenery and more about sociability. Instead of the scenery, it was a place to see and be seen. Then, around 1800 in Britain, the picnic now shortened and hyphenated between the pick and the nick was full of music, theatricals, showmanship. It was performative a little over the top. By the mid-1800s the picnic finally moved outdoors. Public parks opened, train travel made excursions possible and the middle class adopted picnicking as a ritual of leisure. Even books like Mrs Beaton's Book of Household Management, first published in 1861, offered packing lists for feeding 40 people in the grass. Here's what you might find in Mrs Beaton's picnic hamper. A joint of cold roast beef, a joint of cold boiled beef, two ribs of lamb, two shoulders of lamb.

Betsy Jacks: 8:25

Four roast fowl Two roast ducks.

James Cave: 8:26

One ham, one tongue, two veal and ham pie, pigeon pie.

James Cave: 8:30

Six medium-sized lobsters, one piece of collared calf's head, eighteen lettuces, six cucumbers, oh, and three dozen quarts of ale, 12 bottles of wine and two bottles of brandy. I can see why picnics maybe caught on at that time. In the US they became community events too Church gatherings, political rallies, juneteenth celebrations. But, Murphy, in my research for what picnicking was like here in the Hudson Valley for you, I came across a landscape scene by the painter Thomas Cole. Cole, of course, is known as the founding father of the Hudson River School of Painters, and in a painting called "A Picnic Party, finished in 1846, we can see what a Hudson Valley picnic might have looked like back in the day.

James Cave: 9:12

It's a scenic scene. It looks like it's sunset time, there's pink clouds in the sky and soft mountains in the distance. Looks like it's on a riverbank and along the shore, groups of people gather at the trunk of this giant tree. They're dressed in fancy clothes, they're lounging on blankets, of course, they've got their picnic baskets and it looks like someone's playing a guitar. It's an overall pleasant scene, except there's this missing tree right there in the center, only seen by its tree trunk. It's a little jagged, looks like it was recently chopped down, almost like it was removed out of the way so that we could see the scene at all. I wonder if that means something. So I called up Betsy Jacks. She's the executive director emerita of the Thomas Cole site in Catskill, and Betsy has spent the better part of two decades studying Cole's work. Here's how she describes the picnic party and what we might learn from it about picnicking in nature in the Hudson Valley during Thomas Cole's time.

Betsy Jacks: 10:09

In the painting there are several picnic baskets brimming with goodies and some nice blankets set out on the grass, people, young and old, although everyone is beautiful and in excellent health, and even a young man is helpfully pouring the wine. When Thomas Cole is in his mid-40s and, I think, really at the height of his powers as a painter, he creates this incredibly inviting painting called "A Picnic Party and it has happy people spread about on a grassy spot by smooth water, surrounded by truly ancient trees and a lovely view of a distant valley. I think a few of the features give it away as Catskill Creek, a place that, by the way, you can actually visit. It's called the Moignac Preserve. In this one, I believe, I found the story of the guitar playing man's life going back in time.

Betsy Jacks: 11:05

As you go back into the painting, starting on the left side way back, there is a solitary figure by a tree and then the next tree closer to us has a couple. The man has met a mate. Us has a couple. The man has met a mate. The next tree shows a big family gathered around him. This narrative also explains the final tree in the foreground, a stump. The man's life was cut short. It all makes sense, but it's just my theory. The dapper fellow in the straw hat, brown jacket and bow tie, chatting with the, looks to me like Thomas Cole himself. This painting is Thomas Cole telling us to get outside and enjoy summer while we still can. In his lifetime, in the 1830s and 40s, he saw beautiful places in the Hudson Valley all mucked up for someone's profit, for example by running a railroad through it. So in essence, the message here is seize the day. And also that beauty is just as important as monetary gain, if not more so. He felt very strongly let's not ruin all of nature's beauty.

James Cave: 12:21

So in Matthew White Hillsdale General Store, talks about the romance of a picnic, the basket, the blanket, the ceremony of it all. He's tapping into a centuries old tradition. Okay, back in Matthew's shop I asked him for his best practices for picnics. How do you, when you're throwing a picnic, how do you throw a picnic? I mean, you're a pillar of Hillsdale. You probably know where all of the best Hillsdale based picnic spots are. So can you give me a few of your favorite picnic spots and then tell me how you go about throwing a world-class picnic?

Matthew White: 12:53

Well, I'm really terrible about locations because all I do is work in the store and go home. That's literally my life. So I don't know all the great places. You're going to need an outdoorsy, adventurous person who has the time to go to these places to tell you that. But I will tell you.

Matthew White: 13:10

At my house I have what we call literally the picnic garden, and the picnic garden at my place is a round circle of grass.

Matthew White: 13:18

It's not planted with gorgeous flowers, it's not, because my garden is really like a woodland garden. I live in the woods, on the side of a hill, and there was this massive oak tree that was completely overgrown and we cleared out the bottom and made a circular lawn around this ancient, huge oak tree that overlooks our little orchard of maybe 50 trees and that is our picnic garden and it's. You know. I don't know how far is it from the house 200 feet, 300 feet from the house. So what we do is we have the hampers and baskets and bags and ice chest and we gather in the house with our friends and loved ones and when we're ready to go, we have the dogs, we have the blankets, everybody has a blanket, everybody's carrying something and it's almost like a parade and I'm in under my umbrella because the sun, you know, and then we just spread out and some things are sort of preset. Probably an ice chest is preset to keep things cold. I really like things cold, even if it's a warm day. So that's the setup.

James Cave: 14:30

And now, what are? What are your? Some classic go-to picnic items that you're, that you're packing and people are bringing, yes, to eat and to serve.

Matthew White: 14:38

Well, you know, I just like good classic things like a good potato salad, a good chicken salad, a good tuna salad, crepe crudités, fresh vegetables from the farmer's market. You can't beat it. This time of year I love tomato sandwiches. That's a little trickier but you could have the cold sliced tomatoes and the good sliced bread all packaged up and a nice big vat of mayonnaise good mayonnaise, all you need is salt mayonnaise and I mean it's the best, most delicious thing you can ever have in your life, bar none. And you put that with a potato salad that you've made in the day before. It's pretty easy.

Matthew White: 15:14

We had a very dear friend, roger Rees, who was a well-known British actor that lived in America and a Shakespeare expert and such a lovely man. He's no longer with us but he would at every picnic we ever had. He would just pull out Shakespeare sonnets out of his hat and would cry, would laugh. I mean, it was just he, it was so magical. But if you have a friend who sings or plays, a good star, you know, bring it all. Bring it all to the picnic, because it's not just about eating and yakking, you know, it's a total Experience. Knowing having talented friends does not hurt. There's all sorts of picnics and yeah and and outdoor grilling and all that sort of stuff. You can have a fire and blah, blah, blah. But the romance of it, the charm of it and the sort of event of it is so much fun. It's just a delightful way to be with people you love really to be with people you love really.

James Cave: 16:23

Matthew mentioned something about a potato salad. He also talked about wine, and this tells me I need to make a quick call to a very specific person.

Colu Henry: 16:34

Hello.

James Cave: 16:35

Hey Colu, it's James. How's it going?

Matthew White: 16:38

Hey how you doing.

James Cave: 16:40

That's Colu Henry. You might know her from her books "Back Pocket Pasta and Colu Cooks Easy, fancy Food or from her recipes in the New York Times in Food and Wine. One of my favorite recipes she has on the New York Times is her pasta a la vodka currently 8,048 reviews, five-star rating.

James Cave: 16:58

Colu is known for hosting incredible outdoor picnics and parties. She lives in the Hudson Valley, now actually right near me, and whenever I need a recipe I will drive over to her house unannounced, knock on her door to ask for recipes. She never seems to be at home, but that's probably because this time of year she's usually up in Nova Scotia where she hosts friends, and was actually prepping her house for guests who were arriving later in the day when we gave her a call, Murphy, but she made time for us to answer some of our questions about picnics, so I know she's busy. I got straight to the point when it comes to picnicking. What makes a picnic feel like a picnic to you Like? What are some things that you're like? Ok, this is not just an alfresco dining thing. This is a real picnic and we're going to intentionally do this.

Colu Henry: 17:45

I think it makes it a picnic. When you decide the setting and you take the time to figure out what you want to make and what's going to travel, well, I think the picnic gamut can run pretty wild. I'm more of a well-packed sandwich potato salad with a big blanket and rosé. And yeah, I think it's key in terms of when you're packing for a picnic. If, say, you're bringing potato salad, which I have a famous one that it's topped with fried shallots. So I would have everything sort of ready to go except for the toppings which I would pack separately to make sure that they stay crisp and crunchy. I think the same thing goes for sort of any fresh herb. If you're able to prep and pack those and bring them along and kind of garnish at the end, I think it makes a big difference in terms of not having them soggy and discolored. And I mean beer, wine, a salad, some utensils and a sandwich.

James Cave: 18:45

I'm thinking of logistics now, but like how do you arrange assignments to folks and attendees, and like carting it all out there to your spot.

Colu Henry: 18:55

That's a great question, james. I don't own a picnic basket. Actually I'm more of a canvas tote kind of girl. We also have some cooler bags that we fiddle with ice from, you know some of those freezer bags. I think that definitely having a beautiful picnic basket would up your picnic game and make it a much more aesthetic sort of endeavor, which I think is really fun.

James Cave: 19:18

It's okay if you don't have one. That's good to know.

Colu Henry: 19:21

Absolutely. It's totally fine. Put some things in a backpack and take a walk. You know what I mean.

James Cave: 19:25

You mentioned this potato salad and I'd love to hear more about it because, as far as I know, it's a requested item, right? People kind of look forward to it if you were to bring it.

Colu Henry: 19:37

It's true, I made it for the first time in the backyard in Hudson actually, and then, from then moving forward, people were always asking me if I'd bring the potato salad, and that's actually another tip. I don't recommend making any sort of pasta salad or potato salad that has a mayo base. Just because the variables are too, it could be too hot. It might get you know cloppy. Just because the variables are too, it could be too hot, it might get you know cloppy. So I this is a snappy, herby potato salad which has, like a mustard, very sort of punchy dressing which travels well. It sort of veer away from anything super creamy when I'm picnicking, just because when you know if it gets warm, no one really wants to eat something like that. You know what I mean. I love mayonnaise, like it's my favorite, truly my favorite condiment, but I don't want my eyes on a picnic.

James Cave: 20:20

That's a good point. Colu's got a new cookbook on the way Also. She's been working on it. She told me it's likely coming out in the spring of 2026.

Colu Henry: 20:42

Now the title's still a bit of a secret but I wondered if there was anything in her new cookbook that might be good for our picnic year. Well, I have to ask is there any sort of recipe that you would have in the upcoming cookbook?

James Cave: 20:47

that might be good for picnics. Yeah, I'm happy to give you the potato salad recipe if you like it. Oh my God. Well, I didn't want to be too forward, but yes.

Colu Henry: 20:50

I'd love that one. Yeah, you got it.

James Cave: 20:54

Okay, Murphy, I'll include a link to the recipe for Colu Henry's Snappy and Herby Potato Salad in my show notes. It's got celery, fennel, spring onion potatoes, of course. It looks really, really good. Also, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to Colu's fantastic newsletter, Colu Cooks, I have a link to do so in my show notes as well. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but Matthew and Colu both mentioned wine as an important picnic component. So when we come back, what we'll do? We'll head out to talk with a Somalier to learn about her picks for the picnic. Okay, Murphy, stay with us. I'll be right back.

James Cave: 21:28

Hey, it's me, james Cave. I'm the head voice of the James Cave Instagram feed podcast. We call it the Jiffy, and I'm jumping in here to tell you that this episode is brought to you by Word of Mouth. Word of Mouth that's what's working here, if you think about it, with the audio podcasts, when you're hearing me talk, that's words from my mouth, but it's also what helps this podcast to grow. So, if you like it, could you do me a favor and share it with a friend, Tell them to give it a listen and then, if they like it, have that friend, tell another friend. It really helps this podcast grow and right now that's what I really need if I ever want to get sponsored someday. So, thank you, tell a friend to tell a friend about the Jiffy Audio Newsletter Podcast. All right, that's all. That's all I needed to say.

James Cave: 22:13

Now back to the show. Welcome back, Murphy. Okay, as you just heard before the break, matthew and Calou might not agree on mayonnaise's place in your picnic, but they definitely agree on a key ingredient Wine, of course. Talk about wine and, as it happens, I know a sommelier, the genuine artifact, who can help us out. Her name's Rachel Miriam. Hey, good afternoon. Oh, hey, rachel, how's it going? Well, how are you? I'm good, and she's the owner of Fulton Forbes, a beautiful wine and spirits shop in Anchor, new York. What are some talking points and questions that somebody should probably think about asking to identify what might be the best?

Rachel Merriam: 22:54

I think what wines you want to keep going back to. You don't want anything too heavy and you want something fresh and bright. It's just nothing that feels weighted on you. Because it's 85 degrees, you're out in the sun, hopefully you're by a lake, you're getting a little bit of a breeze, but after that you want something that is cooling and refreshing. So just anything in that category. If we're packing picnic wines, we want to pack wines that are probably on the colder side because we're going to be outside. We want something that's thirst quenching and something we want to keep going back to. So I definitely have some good whites, maybe something a little effervescent if we wanted to go. There are chillable reds. Chillable reds is 100% a category, but all reds can't be chilled. It needs to be a light, refreshing wine with bright acidity going on to it, maybe a little bit of bubble, like I was saying before. That is the perfect crushable, chillable red. We can't be chilling. You know something from the Napa Valley or Sonoma? You know, not all reds are created equal.

James Cave: 24:01

In terms of practicality. You want a good picnic. You're thinking practicality, Are there any wines or anything that you could think about that might travel particularly well?

Rachel Merriam: 24:11

Yeah, there's also amazing ready to drink cocktails out there, which is great that travel really well. There's some delicious wine in canned format that also travel really well, and some box wine too that travels really well, sometimes a little bit harder to get cold. Maybe you just do away with the box and throw the bag in the cooler A little bit easier and save some room. But yeah, those definitely travel really well and the product has gotten a lot better over time.

James Cave: 24:41

Yeah, I love that. I think maybe going with a liter bottle or like a box wine without the box. It's interesting tips. And then are there any certain wines that like specifically that you might recommend? Like what are some good wine categories that we could look into?

Rachel Merriam: 24:58

Definitely so. Perfect picnic wines, for me at least. Vino Verde, coming from Northern Portugal. They usually comes under screw cap, not always, but it's the best. You pop that screw cap and you get that lovely, satisfying, because there's a little bit of effervescence, a little bit of bubble in there and then also in the same vein, but coming from Spain, from San Sebastian, is Txakoli, yeah how do you spell that?

James Cave: 25:21

That is a new one to me.

Rachel Merriam: 25:23

T-X-A-K-O-L-I Txakoli. So in Basque T-X is pronounced English C-H-H.

James Cave: 25:30

Tell me about these wines.

Rachel Merriam: 25:32

What makes them so great for this? Because so they're low in alcohol, which is perfect. You know, if we're cooking out in the sun enjoying a picnic, we don't want anything that gets us too drunk too quick. So they sit around like 9% 11%, depending on the producer Bright, bright, bright acidity. It's not heavy on the palate at all, it's just like drinking lemon water A lot of it's spa water, Honestly. It's just in a wine bottle Perfect. A lot of it's spa water, honestly it's just wine, a wine bottle, perfect.

James Cave: 26:00

okay, Murphy, are you still with us? So far, I've given you information on how to appraise a vintage picnic basket, how to pack your picnic basket, uh, whether or not you want to bring mayonnaise, we've also got you kaloo, henry's potato salad and now the perfect wines to bring. There's just one more thing I want to show you. If you remember, back at the Hillsdale General Store, matthew mentioned that having talented friends can go a long way to adding a good ambiance for your picnic. Well, luckily for you, I know Tom Grattan. He's a novelist. He's published two novels already. He's already walking on his third, but he's also the official book reader for the Jiffy podcast, and so I wanted to know if Tom had any recommendations for short stories that might be great to bring along on your next picnic, Murphy.

James Cave: 26:47

So here we go. Here's Tom on some short story recommendations. So, hey, I'm here at Tom's house, I swear. You usually get our seasonal reading lists, but this is a special request because I'm trying to build a picnic Tom. I'm trying to build this picnic experience, a picnic basket with food and stuff, but I also feel like bringing a good book around or bringing a short story or something might be important to a full picnic experience. I was wondering if you had any recommendations on things that I might be able to read or bring along, if you had any thoughts there about what to bring.

Tom Grattan: 27:21

Yes, I have a couple If you sort of want to bring kind of a funny story to it. I was thinking when you had mentioned short stories for a picnic I somehow imagined it being read out loud. And there are a couple that are funny and caustic and really smart but also have a lot of emotion to them. But I think would just be great to bring to a picnic and read. The first is a story by Laurie Moore called You're Ugly Too, which is about a college professor in the Midwest visiting her younger sister in New York for Halloween and this disastrous visit and this ridiculous Halloween party and it's really hilarious and it's a beautiful character study. But also Laurie Moore if you've read her at all, she is wildly funny and so the humor in that story is great. Another is also both funny and really poignant. It's by a Hudson Valley writer, Marie- Helene Bertino. It's from her book Exit Zero that just came out a few months ago and the story is called Can Only Houses Be Haunted and it begins a weekend away with friends and this couple is bickering and they're bickering sort of just moves in these surprising kind of surreal directions. But it is really funny. She gets sort of the I've spent a long weekend with a bunch of random people and my partner doesn't get how frustrating. This is sort of the vibe of that like that fight you have at the end of a long weekend with a bunch of random people, and my partner doesn't get how frustrating. This is sort of the vibe of that, like that fight you have at the end of a long weekend with a partner. It's so well done and so smart and so funny, so that's great.

Tom Grattan: 28:45

My third recommendation is very different. It's a really quiet, beautiful interior story but it takes place in the summer and it's called Getting Closer by Stephen Milhauser, and the whole story is this young kid, I think he's like nine or 10. And he and his family in the summer, as they sometimes drive to this river where you can go swimming, and they have a picnic and it's his favorite thing to do, and the whole story is really him getting there and he's about to get into the river, but he feels like as soon as he does that this experience that he's so excited about will start to end. And it's really about how we deal with things. We love being really ephemeral and how sometimes we don't start things because we're afraid they'll end and time passing and it's a really beautiful story and it's a whole story. He's mostly just standing looking at a river and it's such a gorgeous story and it's a really beautiful character study and the fact that it takes place. I think maybe the Housatonic it might be that river.

James Cave: 29:38

That's why I've been really hesitant to go on a picnic, frankly, because I know it's going to have to end.

Tom Grattan: 29:49

Right, and so the story and I think it's a young person realizing something really complicated about life is that you have this thing. It's almost like that Christmas morning feeling you both want to open the presents but that you know once you open them then you don't have Christmas for another year. So then there's. So it's this, it's this really interesting balance between such excitement and such fear of letdown, and I think he captured it so beautifully in that story and it's just and it's really, and I think it's only seven or eight pages long, so it's something you could read sitting together by a river and feel all your feelings together.

James Cave: 30:22

So there you have it, everything you could possibly need to host the world's most ultimate Hudson Valley picnic of all time. Anytime you have a question for me here at the James Cave Instagram feed or the podcast, all you have to do is hit that link in the show notes and you can send me a text directly. It's so easy to do and we'll learn some things together, such as one of the themes of this episode seemed to be on the passage of time and the fleeting nature of summer. So, just like the seasons, I suppose this episode has to come to an end at some point. Well, that's where we are. I want to thank you for listening all the way through, and I also want to thank Matthew White, Betsy Jacks, Colu Henry, Rachel Miriam, Tom Grattan and, of course, Murphy, my anonymous listener. As for me, I'm James Cave, and until next time I'll see you over on the Instagram feed.