No One Taught You How to Be a Dad — Now What? (Chris Harper)

If you grew up without a dad—or with one who was distracted or destructive—this episode will hit home. Chris Harper from BetterMan joins Joshua Brown to talk about what happens when a man finally finds clarity, community, and calling.

Chris shares his story of chasing everything that didn’t satisfy, how God rebuilt him, and why the 4 W’s of manhood (Word, Woman, Work, World) are changing families across the country.

In This Episode:

• How father wounds shape your faith and identity
• Why holiness is the new happiness
• The 11-week path to biblical manhood
• The #1 reason men need other men
• How to bless your kids—starting today

Links:
• Learn more at dudeswithoutdadspodcast.com

• Join a BetterMan group → betterman.com

• Subscribe for more conversations that grow godly men

Keywords: father wounds, biblical manhood, BetterMan, discipleship, fatherhood, christian men, masculinity

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I basically, you know, had tried everything and and I was still feeling empty. Didn't really know the purpose of my life, didn't really know the purpose of living. Again, just real hopeless. My pursuit really was for affirmation. It was for pleasure. Because every time I got a diploma, I thought I would hear, you know, my dad or someone saying, I'm proud of you. And I never heard that. Even my most righteous deeds were tainted by my wicked motives. So I went to a buddy of mine from grad school and I said, uh, where does hope come from? Marriage no longer became a vehicle that made us holy. Marriage was about what makes us happy. My life was just by rolling downhill depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death about despair. One guy who showed up is just easy. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose and break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had. Hey Chris, welcome to the show. Super stoked. Uh honored to have you here today. Welcome out.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Man, so good to be with you, bro. Honored, honored to be with a like-hearted brother. Man, I meet I meet like-minded people all the time, but but then you meet like-hearted brothers, and uh man, you're definitely like-hearted, so so I'm glad to be with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, then that means in progress.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Amen to that, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, I remember there's a quote, and it was like, your justification never outgrows your sanctification, or something that max you know, that spot. But it's like I'm still as much in need of of Christ today as yesterday. It's I haven't matured beyond that, you know. I'm in total desperation. But it's not about me today, it's about you. So let's let's unpack this. For those who've never heard your story, would you mind just giving a quick um testimony to glorify God, what where your starting point was and how you come to know Him? And as short, as efficient as you can be, right here.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah, man, I'll be efficient, dude. I was man, I was lost as the day is long. I had just finished up grad school, uh, didn't know, didn't really know my next steps. Um, figured I was just gonna go to law school, be a lawyer. Uh, was feeling kind of hopeless though. I had just gotten back from Eastern Europe. I did research for the university I was at in Eastern Europe for a while. Had just gotten back, uh, didn't really know the purpose of my life, didn't really know the purpose of living again, just real hopeless. So I went to a buddy of mine from grad school and I said, uh, where does hope come from? You know, this existential question. And he said, You should come to church with me on Wednesday night. And I said, Man, I'm not interested in that. Uh he said, There's free Chick-fil-A in college girls. So I said, Man, I'm in. Just you just point me to the way. And um, so I tell people all the time, I went for the chicks and the chicken. And um the third or fourth time, man, I just kept I kept coming back. I kept hearing this message. And the third or fourth time, I come to the realization, man, that not only had I rejected God, but I wanted to be God. I wanted to be God. And if there was a man named King Jesus that paid the penalty for my rebellion, he paid the penalty for my rejection. And um, man, when I put my hope in him, I had hope upon hope, bro. I I I discovered the source of life, the source of hope. And from that day on, I was about 25, 26 years old. From that day on, I've just been running hard for him and with him and after him. Uh and it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. It's like I I like the way you say I came for the chicks and the fillet. That was really, really good. Okay, what you know, so prior to that moment, if you were to look back in your journey, you know, what kind of messed you up? Um, you mentioned you had a desire to be your own God. Yeah, what did that look like?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, man, it was, you know, I was I was very hedonistic. Um I was a heathen, but I was very hedonistic, man. So my my pursuit really was for affirmation. It was for pleasure. Um, so you know, I didn't get a lot of affirmation growing up. Um, uh, so I was uh that's that old country song, looking for love in all the wrong places, looking for love in too many faces, man. So um whether it was sexual conquest, whether it was academia, um, school always came easy to me. I I often joke that that I have more degrees than a thermometer. And that's that's not because I liked going to school, it's just because every time I got a diploma, I thought I would hear, you know, my dad or someone saying, I'm proud of you. And I never heard that. So I just kept, I just kept going to school. And then and then because I grew up really uh with an absent father, I had too much mom in my life. So uh, and typically a man with too much mom, he'll either uh take advantage of women or he'll become codependent upon women. Uh and for me, it was the former. I I took advantage of women. Women were were just an object. So um I basically, you know, had tried everything. And and I was still feeling empty. I was still feeling hopeless. And that's what drove me to that point, man. Is there is there a purpose to all this? Or is life just chasing accolades, chasing women, chasing money, chasing pleasure? Because at 25, I had I had chased a lot of that. Um, and it's still I still was thirsty. Like what Jesus tell the woman at the well, like you keep drinking water, and it's gonna it it it may it leaves you thirsty, like you're thirstier. Um but I've got water, you'll never thirst again. And man, I discovered that.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Well, I appreciate you sharing that. And then, you know, your story shares you come to a place and and you drank from the well, and and then your story began. When did you start looking around and noticing it just wasn't you that needed Jesus, but there was brokenness all around you. When did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, man, that's really when when kind of the lights came on. Uh the Lord really, really opened my eyes to, you know, all of us have a different, a different way to Jesus or or a different way of realizing, you know, our brokenness, but all of our stories are the same. Um, you know, we're not we're not good people trying to be better people, you know. I think it was C.S. Lewis said that we're we're enemies that that come to lay down our arms.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Uh that come to surrender. I I teach my kids that the greatest word in the English language is surrender. It's the most powerful word, man. We're we're surrendering ourselves um uh to his will and to his kingdom, man. And we get we become adopted, like we become heirs to the to the throne of grace, to the throne of righteousness. And and and I'm looking around the world, man, and there's there's there's not a lot of that. There's not a lot of people willing to to die to themselves to live for God and to live for others. We live in such a selfish, selfish world. And and and I was the king of selfishness, man. I'm like Paul, man. I'm the chief of all sinners. Like, like there was no one more important in this world than me.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

And and even even when I was even when I was pagan and like doing generous things, like even when I was serving and volunteering, and even when I was showing up and helping others, I was only doing that to make myself look good. I was only doing that to feel good about myself. Even my even my most righteous deeds uh were were tainted by my by my wicked motives and that and that inward, that that inward perspective where everything was about me. And bro, when I look around the world today, it's not getting better. I mean, it's getting worse where where everybody thinks they're their own little God. You know, the world tells you, the world tells you that freedom is the ability to do what you want, be what you want, say what you want, go where you want, act how you want. That's what they say freedom is. The Bible says freedom is the ability to do what God wants you to do and be who God wants you to be, and say what God wants you to say and act how God wants you to act. Like that's true freedom. So, so I was over here living in the world's version of freedom, thinking, man, I'm my own little God doing what I want, saying what I want, going where I want. When actually, bro, it it it was a cage. I was a slave.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

And then all of a sudden, bro, the Lord kicks open that door, man, and he frees me from that cave. And and now I have the freedom to be who he said I am, to do what he called me to do, to live as he wants me to live, man. And and once I tasted that freedom, bro, there's no going back. You can't you can't lock me up again, bro. I'm free.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

That's so good. I remember Paul in Romans, he said, Don't you realize, brothers, that you're either a slave to righteousness or a slave to wickedness? So good. I'm in one of my first youth groups. I had a shirt and it said slave across it. And folks would stop me in the middle of a mall, Winston Salem, Haynes Mall, and say, Hey, what do you mean by that? And I was like, Brother, the scripture says we are slaves to righteousness and or we're slave to sin and wrath. Come on. And uh, so good, man. All right, so you you you start awakening, you start seeing it, you see corruptness. When did you say, I gotta do something about it? I got to real quick. Do you have a story of growing up without a dad? Or you had a destructive or distracted father? If you think it would be of value to share your story on the Dudes Without Dads podcast, I want you to pause, go to the link inside the bio, and apply to speak on the Dudes Without Dads podcast. And then if you know somebody that would be an incredible guest, please share this show with them because we can do more if we do it together. Now back to the show. Build something that makes a difference inside of our society.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, yeah, immediately, man, not too long after I was saved, um, I went into full-time vocational ministry. So uh I pastored a couple of churches, I did church planting for a while, but really it was about 10 years ago that um I started asking, like, what's the greatest ROI? So what's the greatest return on investment? And you know, it's interesting. I'll I'll ask a professing believer today, you know, what verse in the Bible scares you the most? And nine out of 10 times, they'll say, uh, depart from me, for I never knew you. Like, like, like people have this fear that they're gonna get to Jesus and He's gonna say, Hey, listen, you know, you did this, this, and this, but depart from me, for I never knew you. Josh, that bro, that's not my fear. Like, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I know Jesus knows me. And bro, I know him. Like when I see Jesus, he's not gonna say, Harp, depart from me, I never knew you. He's gonna dap me up, hug me, probably kiss me on the face, bro. Like I know him, right? Let me tell you what my greatest fear is. My greatest fear comes from Matthew chapter 25, when when God looks at that steward and says, bro, I I gave you all this, and this is what you brought me. Like, like, like, like this is what you did with it.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

And so, so about 10 years ago, I'm looking at all that God's blessed me with, man. I I've got my health, you know, um, I've got, because of my academic circles, man, I've got access to things that people don't have access to. Um, he's gifted me to be able to recall the scriptures, he's gifted me to be able to preach and and teach, he's given me this incredible relationships. And I began to ask myself, he's given me a beautiful family. Like I begin to ask myself, how am I taking that and maximizing the return? Like, what's the ROI? Because when I get to Jesus, man, I want him to look at me and say, Heart, bro, I gave you three talents and you brought me back seven. Man, well done. Enter into the joy of your master. Right. So I want to take all these talents and I want to maximize them for God. And that's when it hit me the greatest return on investment, I believe, is helping men and helping fathers. If you can help men, I think men are the high tide that raise every ship, bro. If you can help men understand their calling and purpose in life, understand their place in God's economy, if you can help dads train up the next generation, you have a generational impact. I mean, generation upon generation. And so about 10 years ago, bro, I doubled down and I said, okay, if the greatest kingdom ROI is men, you know, husbands and fathers, like men, that's where I'm going all in. So uh that's what I did, bro. Just jumped all in and trying to help other men, trying to help dads, trying to help husbands be who God's called them to be.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Wow, man, that's so powerful. And there's so much that you can process inside of that. But ultimately, your your question, which is a business term, I'm surprised inside of the church you knew what ROI or KPI or SOP means. Normally, you know, the pastors they they don't know that. So I appreciate you knowing that. But the question is this you end up building uh something known as better man. For those that have never heard of it, would you mind helping us uh unpack what better man is, who it's for, and what it does?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yeah, so so better man started because we live in a time where men, there is no clear definition for what it means to be God's man today. If I ask a hundred men, what does it mean to be a real man, God's man, I'll get a hundred different answers. If I ask a hundred pastors, I'll get 50 different answers, and the other 50 won't answer it the fear of offending someone. So, so we believe it better, man. We believe men need two things. They need clarity around their design, how God made them, and they need the community of other men. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose uh in God's economy. And so we came up with a definition. We call it the four W's. It's right from scripture. Uh, it's the four pillars that if you're going to be a real man today, if you're gonna be God's man, you have to have these. Uh you have to be doing these. Uh, the first W is uh is a real man courageously follows God's word. The word is central, the word is foundational. That's one. Second is a real man, God's man. He honors and he serves and he protects and he loves God's woman. And whether that's your sister, whether that's your fiance, whether that's your mom, whether that's your wife, before she was any of those things, she was God's daughter and she's worthy of love and honor and dignity and respect. So, so a real man honors God's woman. Uh, a real man, thirdly, a real man excels at the work God gives him. And this is probably my favorite, W, because we break down the sacred secular divide. Like, like, just because you're, you know, a plumber or an electrician or a dentist or an accountant, man, that doesn't mean you're not doing a holy work. If you're doing it unto the Lord, you're doing a holy work. So we teach plumbers and electricians and accountants that what they're doing is just as important as what the megachurch pastor is doing. It's just as important as what the missionary is doing. They are no less um holy and they are no less important in God's economy. So a real man excels at the work God puts in front of him. And then lastly, a real man betters God's world. Uh, he leaves it better than he found it. And he does that through his children, through his church, and through his community. So, word, woman, work, world. And and we package that. Uh, we made it an online platform. We have some of the best teachers in America breaking it down. So you can grab some dudes and just go on a journey with those dudes, getting that definition, getting that community, so you can you can jump off, man. And um, it's been incredible. You know, we we work hard at staying in our lane. We're not deep discipleship, but what we are is the front door to discipleship. We're a front door, or or what Robert Lewis, I love, he calls it an on-ramp to manhood and masculinity. We're the on-ramp. And man, it's just been crazy. The the Lord's blessed it. You know, I think we're active in 6,500 churches right now. You know, a million plus men have gone through it. Um, it's crazy. It's crazy, Josh, dude. There's there's 360,000 churches in North America, okay? Give or take a few. 80% have a functioning women's ministry, less than 7% have a functioning men's ministry. So, so better man can show up at any church, and we have a turnkey men's ministry to get your men started, uh, which is one of the reasons I think we've been so successful, because uh unfortunately the bar is so low. Uh, most people, when they say we have a men's ministry, what they mean is they have a quarterly breakfast where some ex NFL kicker comes and talks about faith and football. And and listen, nothing against X NFL kickers, but there's got to be more than that for men. Um, so so I think that's where we've seen a lot of success. But but the reality is it it can be done anywhere. It doesn't have to be done in a church, man. It's right now it's it's being done in prisons, it's being done on military bases, it's being done in locker rooms, it's been done in people's basements in their living rooms. Um, one of my favorite pictures is a group of dudes sitting in North Carolina around a fire, projecting our videos up on a barn and watching it every Wednesday night, bro. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

So good.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Um, we've made it frictionless, bro, where anybody can access it from anywhere as long as you've got an internet connection.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, and we're gonna highlight this at the end. And I just want to point out a few things you just said. First, just through Stephen Weatherford underneath the bus, uh, former NFL. My brother is is on it as far as discipleship. So I enjoy watching his podcast, this show. So I thought that was so funny.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

But uh why not? Can't we not do this just showing up on Sunday mornings or showing up once every man? I read my Bible, you know. Speak to the dude that's like, bro, I got a Bible, you know, I don't need really need this. You said clarity and community. Like, are you certain this is what I need? Speak to me.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah, yeah. So I want you to think about this. Most men today, specifically millennial men and Gen Z men. So 41% of those men grew up without a father in the home. So they are they are what we would call, you know, uh a true orphan, no father in the home. Add on top of that, men like me. I'm an old millennial. I grew up with a dad in the home, but he was emotionally, physically, spiritually detached. He spent the majority of his time just drinking beer in a garage. So I really didn't have a dad. I didn't have anybody showing me the way. Add on top of that, what I call spiritual orphans. And those are dudes that grew up in the church, and maybe they went to youth group, man, and you know, they played, you know, Powerball and drank Kool-Aid or whatever else it is, bro, but they never really experienced any type of real discipleship.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Hey, I'm gonna interrupt the podcast. Hope it is adding value to you. And let me introduce myself. I'm Joshua Brown, founder of Dudes Without Dads. I'm a dude who grew up without a father, and he actually offered to pay for my abortion to not be in my life. And so this podcast is birthed out of my desire to be the dad I never had, and then encourage other men to become the dads they never had. And just to be straight and to be blunt, I need givers. I need individuals who believe in this ministry that believe that helping men become the dads they never had is a worthwhile pursuit. And I've got a giving link. You just hit QR code on the screen, or you can go inside the show notes and just become a monthly supporter of the dudes without dad for your gift of anything over$20 a month. I'm going to send you our season one Dudes Without Dad shirt. Just let us know what size you wear and I'll mail it uh to you. But that's all I've got, and I again appreciate you taking time to listen to this podcast, and now back to the show.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

So you got you got actual orphans, you got functional orphans, and then you got spiritual orphans. In my estimation, when you add those categories together, nearly 70% of all men today have never had anyone guide them. They've never had anyone show them what it means to be God's man. And and for all my single moms out there, man, I love you, but a single mom can't fully show a man how to be God's man. That takes another man showing them how to be God's man. So most people have never had a guide. Most people have never had a had a path. And when men don't have a guide, they do one of a few things, right? One, uh, they guess at their manhood and masculinity. They try to figure it out on their own, and 99 out of a hundred times they guess wrong and break a bunch of stuff in the path. Okay. Or two, they listen to the loudest voice in culture, which is why you have. Have millions and millions of men flocking to Andrew Tate, who's garbage, flocking to Jordan Peterson, which a lot of what he says is not good, flocking to Grant Cardone, which again, selfishness, et cetera, et cetera. So they'll listen to the loudest voice in culture. Or thirdly, which is worse, they just slow quit their manhood and masculinity. Um, literally to the point of death sometimes. Men account for 50% of the population in this country, but we account for 81% of the suicides. We lead in every statistical category you don't want to be in. We lead in depression, alcoholism, incarceration, deaths by despair. We lead in all that. The largest unreached people group today are men. And I dare anybody to challenge me on that, bro. We lead in every category, bro, you don't want to be leading in. So, so to the guy that says, you know, um, I've got a Bible, um, I've got YouTube, I've got an Instagram account, I can figure out how to be a man, bro. I would, I would caution you, you need a good example of a godly man in your life willing to walk alongside you and show you, according to God's word, what it means to be God's man. Whether better man is a tool you use for that, bro, you won't hurt my feelings. Use a different tool. The point is you've got to go find somebody that you can emulate, that you can, that you can model and pattern your life after um who's running hard after King Jesus. It's like Paul said, imitate me as I imitate him. That's what we're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

That's so good, man. Can you, you know, and for those that are listening, it's like, man, I need this. We're gonna get you there, okay? So just hang out. But could you help me understand how we got there? You know, I had a friend on the show um several shows ago, and he said that in when he was in like the the second grade, which is like 1940 something, he was super old. He said that only you know, like six percent of the homes were being raised by single moms. It was something ridiculous. How as a society have we got to to lose our identity as what it means to be a husband, a man, a father?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah, yeah. You know, there's there was a there's a couple of cultural shifts that have basically uh brought this on. You know, the biggest shift being the sexual revolution. You know, sex no longer was looked at a way to procreate, to expand the family. You know, the family has always been the building block of culture, it's always been that way. It's the way God designed it. That's why he put a family in the garden. So family has always been the cornerstone of civilization. Well, Satan knew man, if I can destroy the cornerstone, the whole superstructure will collapse. So from day one, he's been creating enmity in the home. I mean, from day one, Adam looked at Eve and blamed Eve. I mean, there was already strife in the home. You know, uh Cain killed Abel. There was already strife in the home. So he knew, man, if I can disrupt the home, I can bring everything else down. He knew the cornerstone, man. He's crafty. The dude is crafty. So that's what he did. You know, he did it with the sexual revolution. Sex is no longer a means to procreate and to expand the kingdom of God. Typically, uh, religions that spread far and wide, they do it through procreation. I tell people all the time uh the fastest growing religion today is Islam. And it's not because they're out-proselytizing us, they're just outbirthing us, they're just having more kids than we're having and they're training them up in the way of Islam. The, the, the, it, it, back in the day, bro, how we spread Christianity is we had kids and we trained them up in the ways of the Lord. That's how it spread. We filled up our quivers and we shot them out into the world. So, so when sex no longer became a means of procreation and doing that, when sex became a means of pleasure and pleasure only, then then you you begin to see the breakdown. The other thing that happened in line with that, uh, I think it was 72. My numbers may be wrong, but it was the state of California, I know. They they they passed a law called no contest divorce, meaning for the first time, uh, we took the idea of divorce, of husband and wife leaving one another, and we we normalized it. We destigmatized it, and and divorces became convenient. So now you could just file a no contest divorce, you didn't even have to go to court anymore. The lawyers would do the paperwork, you split everything down the middle, and you're done. Um, go find someone else that makes you happy. And marriage no longer became a vehicle that made us holy. Marriage was about what makes us happy. And when my spouse didn't make me happy, that's no problem. I'll just go find a new spouse. And you're seeing that all across our culture today. So, so the home has systematically been ripped apart. Add into that the advent of pornography, not the advent of it, but the proliferation of it, how how with technology and smartphone and pornography was allowed to come into the home and begin to destroy marriages and break up homes. Um, I mean, I can go on and on about the cultural consequences of these things, but the the answer to your question, Josh, is Satan knew. Again, Satan's an ROI guy. Satan, Satan's not God. Satan's not omnipresent, he's not omnipotent, he's not, he's not omniscient, he's not all-knowing, all-powerful, all-present. Satan's got to be an ROI guy. Satan can't be everywhere at once. So Satan looked at this world and said, okay, if I'm gonna do the greatest amount of harm in this world today, who do I get at? And he looked around, he said, it's easy. I get it the man. I get it the home, I get it the father. If I can destroy that, if I can destroy the institution of the home, if I can destroy the mantle of fatherhood, he said I can bring down civilization, and we've watched it for the last 2,000 plus years.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

That's so good. You and I could be chatting for a long time on this conversation. I got so many things firing off, but we are getting near the end where I want to invite our listeners into this community, basically, whether it's in person where they can find uh a location near them or to join an online community, maybe even one with dudes without dads. But um, I you know, I heard you say something that is that are you saying that God doesn't want me to be happy if my wife doesn't make me happy? Like she's not having an affair, but she don't make me happy no more. And like she gets on my nerves. Are you telling me that God doesn't want me to be happy?

SPEAKER_00 29:05

I'm telling you, God wants you to be holy. And and and there's a good chance God's using your wife to sanctify you. There's a good chance God's using your wife to shave off some of those edges, bro, so that you can grow so that you can die to self and grow in holiness because it's from your holiness that you discover true happiness, true joy. And uh that's not just with your wife, that's with your kids. That's with your job. There's so many dudes. I meet so many dudes that leave their careers, leave their jobs because they're not happy. And your job was never supposed to make you happy, your job was to help cultivate you and to become the man God's called you to be, and then through that you find joy, pleasure, satisfaction, man. It's this, it's that, you know, we got a cologne, we got a perfume called happy. I mean, what is what does Coca-Cola say? Open up a bottle of happiness. Man, the world's been selling happiness since day one, man. It's a cheap trick. Give me holiness, give me faithfulness.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

That's so good. And so ultimately, the dude that's listening, they have to make a choice do I want to be holy or happy? And what's interesting is if you find holiness, you find happiness. There you go. Man, you're it's so powerful. So let's do this. For would you unpack what an online or in-person community would look like? So I'm interested. I want to find out more. Can you kind of just share what we're being called to and what we're committing to inside of a better man?

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah. So you're what you're gonna do is commit to an 11-week journey. It's one lesson a week. You're gonna go to betterman.com and you're basically just gonna create a leader login. You're just gonna you're just gonna put in your email, create a leader login, and that's gonna give you access to everything. You're gonna get access to all the curriculum. You can do two things with the curriculum. You can either download it for free into PDFs, which we recommend, or if you want to buy a physical workbook, you can do that. We basically sell it at cost. So again, we give this away. So you you you create the leader login, um, you download the material, and then you pick your teacher. So we have we have seven or eight, in my opinion, seven or eight of the best teachers in America. And you and you pick your teacher and you're gonna go through this journey with them. So you can pick Derwin Gray, you can pick Brian Herlbitt, you can pick Chris Harper, you can pick JP uh uh Pakluda, you can you can pick your teacher, and then you gather your men, whether it's a group of three or a group of 30, it doesn't matter. You know, our largest group was 1,700 men at Longhollow, you know, and then we've got thousands of groups all across the country of three, five, six, eight, ten guys going through it together. You pick your group of men and you just push play, watch the video, fill in the workbook, answer the questions together, and allow the Holy Spirit just to start to move in the lives of that community.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah, it's so good. What's at stake if I say, you know what, I know I need it, but I'm busy, you know. Like, what's at stake in me putting this thing off?

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, absolutely. You can't you can't become what you can't define. And I'm gonna say that another way when a thing isn't rightly understood, the abuse of that thing is inevitable. So until you rightly understand your manhood, until you rightly understand fatherhood, until you rightly understand what it means to be a godly husband, the abuse of fatherhood is inevitable. The abuse of or by husbandry is inevitable, the abuse of or by manhood is inevitable. Until a thing is rightly understood, man, the abuse of that thing is inevitable. So until you begin to grasp your call as a man, your call as a husband, your call as a dad, you will keep abusing those institutions. It's like Dallas Willer said, man, God is just looking at the earth and he's trying to find a man he can entrust with his power. Because most men either take the power of God and abuse it, or they take the power of God and they neglect it. And both of those are damaging, both of those are crushing our society. We want to train up men who receive the authority, who receive the power of God, and they wield it in life-giving ways for others. That's what's at stake.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

So good. And then can you to close off the story? Have you seen the show? Have you seen how this works? Is there out of the thousands of people or you know, the four or ten that are meeting in a group, have you seen anybody's life get any better? Can you close us with a story on that?

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Every day, man, I get this the greatest part of my job. No exaggeration. I get text, calls, emails every day of transformation. One of my favorite stories came out of Mississippi. Uh, a dad was challenged to share scripture with his family. He had not been speaking scripture over his family. And in one of our sessions, we talk about the importance of sharing God's word with your wife, with your children, etc. So he said he was on a, they were on a family vacation. He said the Holy Spirit convicted him, man. So he leaned over and turned off the radio, told the kids to put down the iPads, and he just began to bless the car, man. He just began to bless his wife and bless his kids in the car to speak scripture over his family. He said, after about four minutes of that, it just kind of got quiet. His wife turned the radio back on and the iPads went back up. And he was thinking, Why in the world did I do that, man? That was such a waste of time. Until a week later, a week later, he was picking his son up from basketball practice and he said, My son got in the truck, reached over and turned off the radio and said, Dad, could you speak some more of those words over me? Can you tell me some more of those words? Josh, bro, if we just get a generation of men speaking truth, speaking life to their families, yeah, we win, bro. We beat the enemy. It's one of my favorite stories, dog.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Yeah, and the scripture that's popping in my head is they exchanged the image for the image of the visible God for an invisible God. You know, so so powerful. Yeah. Um, Chris, uh, it has been an harp, it has been a gift to have you on today. You have been positioned in proximity to make a difference. And I look forward to see, you know, in eternity what exact fruit your life produced. And for our listeners, man, why wait? Come on. You know, why put off things that can absolutely change your life and your family's life? Like no matter where your wife is or your your children are, you gotta first make your right, your your life right. You know, Jesus said it best, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things be added unto you. It's like get that thing right first, and then everything else will work out over time. Chris, any final words you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Man, just want to just want to encourage you, bro, and and and what you're doing, the dudes without dads podcast, man, and and reaching into the hearts of men. I love, I love that you too have recognized, man, that men are the high tide. It's the ROI, man. Um, I don't just want to, I just don't want to change the here and now, man. I want to see change uh generationally. Man, I want I want the impact to be long after we're gone. So just to encourage you, man, keep going, keep keep taking ground for King Jesus, bro. You're a warrior and uh just glad to be on the journey with you.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Awesome. And for all of our listeners, if you're interested in joining the journey with the dudes without dads, you can go to our website, dudeswithout dadspodcast.com, and you can sign up to join a better man. And then more importantly, I would say if you can't get if if if you have a better man near you that meets in person, I didn't ask you this before the show, Chris, but if somebody was looking for a community in a major city or near them, is there any search engine? Is there anywhere they can go to see if there's anything near them where they can meet in person, which is what I would call like level up above an online community?

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Yeah, absolutely. We don't have a search engine, but you can eat you can email us at uh info, just info at betterman.com and say, hey, I'm looking for a better man group in X City, and yeah, we can hit you up. Info at betterman.com. I'm sure we can throw that in the notes.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

And until next time, peace.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Forgiveness is more for you than them.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

I had inner peace for the first time in my life.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

It's just Jesus. Just Jesus.