The Lie Our Fathers Passed Down — And How It’s Still Ruining Us

What happens when five men who grew up without fathers sit down to talk about forgiveness, healing, and becoming the dads they never had? You get one of the most powerful conversations we've ever recorded.

In this roundtable episode, you'll hear:

Antjuan's Story: Growing up in North Tulsa without a father, finding mentorship through a basketball coach, and discovering that community starts with the family.

Gabriel's Journey: From seeking validation in gang life to finding true identity and forgiveness in a prison cell. His story will challenge everything you think about redemption.

Curtis's Testimony: Adopted as a baby, he shares how his earthly father's unconditional love became a picture of God's adoption—and how he forgave his biological father after years of silence.

Coty's Breaking Point: The moment he confessed his addiction to his wife and experienced Christ's love through her grace: "It's not me against you—it's you and me against whatever this is."

The Power of Forgiveness: Curtis shares the heartbreaking story of his brother's murder and how God led him to forgive—not just others, but himself.

Key Insights:

• Why mentorship is the most critical investment for fatherless men
• How gang members become surrogate fathers in the absence of real ones
• The moment each man experienced personal forgiveness that changed everything
• Why forgiveness is the foundation of becoming the dad you never had
• How God shows up as Father when earthly fathers fail

This Episode is For You If:

• You grew up without a father and don't know where to start
• You're struggling to forgive someone who hurt you deeply
• You're a young dad trying to figure it out without a model
• You feel disqualified from God's love because of your past
• You want to break generational cycles but don't know how

Important Reminder: Nothing disqualifies you from God's love. Your past doesn't define your future. You can become the dad you never had.

Guest Invitation: Gabriel closes with a powerful invitation—if you've believed the lie that God doesn't love people like you, this episode is for you.

• Coaching / Speaking → https://dudeswithoutdadspodcast.com/coaching

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• Connect with BetterMan → https://betterman.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

In sixth grade was the first time I seen with my eyes uh a married black couple.

SPEAKER_06 0:06

16 years old, I was just a full-blown gang member, indoctrinated with the street mentality with violence because of you.

SPEAKER_05 0:17

I understood. It was it was an easy path for me to understand what Jesus did for me.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

I remember laying my head in her lap, and she goes, she said, It's not me against you, it's not you against me. I understand this to be you and me against whatever this is.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

My life was just spyrolling downhill, depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death by despair. One guy who showed up is just Jesus. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

You can break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had. So let me kick it to you guys. When you think about what our society or what our homes would look like if men did whatever the H E double L they want to do, what do you think the homes, the society, and the businesses would look like?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Um, well, I could probably speak to that, probably firsthand growing up in a home where there wasn't a man to be found, no leader in the home. Uh, and then also in the neighborhoods that I grew up, none of my other friends had fathers to look up to. And it wasn't until I we moved to a certain part of town. I went to a certain uh school, Edison Preperatorial at the time, um, that I think the types of men changed. Even when I went to that school in sixth grade was the first time I seen with my eyes of a married black couple. The first time I seen a husband and wife who were married and they have children and they dropped them off at school. It's the first time I've ever seen that. Uh, it just happens to be my best friend's parents, and they came and taught at the school. I'm like, what is that? Like, they're doing this thing together. It's kind of like what I seen, you know, on the Cosby's or Fresh Prince, where you see doctors and lawyers for the first time. And growing up in uh certain communities to where leadership or just fatherlessness uh not available or absent, uh, you you kind of get a little bit of somewhat walking zombies a little bit, uh, not knowing too much what to do, just kind of relying on the next thing or the next man. Uh, and unfortunately, half the time, uh, that person or or the types of people who live in uh these type of impoverished conditions are just kind of conditioned to do what they've seen their big brother do, whether it's sell drugs, uh get a girl pregnant, uh, end up in jail, shot or dead. And so there is when there's a lack of leadership, when there's a lack of uh fathers uh in the community, you actually don't have the community because when a man is present at home, that that the community is built off the family. Yeah, the family creates the community, the community creates uh the the society, society creates the city, city creates what we see now to where you actually see businesses. So even when I was growing up in the certain areas I grew up, just in Tulsa, Oklahoma, um, in the certain areas, you wouldn't see businesses, you wouldn't see uh entrepreneurial uh businesses, you wouldn't see banks, even still to this day, there's only one Bank of America out north of Tulsa where you didn't see opportunity present because uh the mindsets, the uh the options. Uh, but until I moved to a certain side of town, I got to see uh decide very differently. Uh one of my basketball coaches, uh he was a wealthy man. Uh he used to take me out to his ranch uh and his land. And I'm like, who's paying for all of our basketball gear? Like this is this is crazy. Like, and I said, Coach, how what do you do? And he says, I I sell jets, I broker jets for a living. I was like, one, what the heck is that? Two, did it get you all of this? Beautiful house on the south side of Tulsa, 20 acres, horses, uh, warm meal every night. And um, he taught me a lot about hey, if you really want to make something of yourself in life, you're just one step away from that. And he wasn't the best basketball coach, but he loved Kentucky Wildcats. And his introduction, his love and passion for basketball met my skill for basketball, which gave me an invitation into his home to be able to learn from a man who was able to build, who kind of came from nothing, uh, was in the war in the army, uh, but was then able to then pass on a new paradigm, a new mindset to me, a kid from the north side of Tulsa. Uh, and it changed my entire life. And from that point on, I said, Whoa, some there's something different, and there is more to life. You're still a Kentucky fan. I am, man. I still have my jersey from my AAU days, man. So uh, but yeah, I can go to his I can go to his house right now. He's 75 years old. He will get up off his recliner, he's watching Fox News, and he will go in the kitchen to make me a sandwich, no matter what. Even if I want it or not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

For those that just heard your story, would you mind sharing if you had no dad, a distracted dad, a destructive dad, or a good dad?

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, uh for the for those who are listening who have no father, and you're you're trying to figure out your next steps. Um the the the what I would say to you, the the most critical, important investment you can ever make is mentorship. One starting right here on this podcast in this roundtable, you see men, you see fathers. That's where it changed for me. And it's it's it's so critical because it just it helps decide your next steps, the next decisions that you're gonna make, the quality decisions that you want to make in life, the type of woman you want to marry, um, the type of business you want to have. I got all those from other men that I admire watching. I can almost name them all on one hand. My best friend's dad, Tommy Todd, Coach Locker, Pastor CJ, a lot of pastors. That's why it's good to go to church. Uh, and just find men that that uh you admire that, and they're not they're not gonna be perfect. They're not gonna be perfect. You need to know that they're not gonna be perfect. But what you could take from them, what I was able to take from them is, man, I want to be like that. Or hey, maybe I shouldn't do that. Or hey, wow, I see the way he treats his wife. And you'll you'll start to see that you'll start to collect new habits, new thoughts, new theories that you can put into practice uh so that you can have a better future in life.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yep, thank you. Curtis, Cody, Gabriel, what type of examples did you guys have when you look back on your your childhood?

SPEAKER_06 7:18

Yeah, um, I could chime in right now. Yeah, I pretty much the same as Antoine, man. Um I had a dad at home, but he was what we call a deadbeat dad. So what I mean by that is he he was um he was a full-blown alcoholic, you know. Um, and we would do the how do you say that the H E double L? Whatever we wanted, man. We would we would there was no structure in my home, you know, there was no um being celebrated, there was no like, hey man, you're you're pretty good, son. Good job, son, you know. So I think as a as a youngster, you look for that. You look to make your dad proud, you know. And for me, I I I just remember like it was yesterday, the first time I um I got in a fight at school for whatever reason. I can't recall, I was 13 years old, 12, 13 years old. And one I lived in uh I lived in a low poverty community, you know, um infested with gangs and stuff like that. And I remember the first time I was celebrated or that I made somebody proud, you know, it was an older gang member, you know. But I looked at him like a father figure. I looked at him like, man, this guy is recognizing, even though it was negative what I did, but this guy was celebrating. This guy believed in me, you know. So I I'll never forget that feeling of just satisfaction in my heart, you know. Like, man, I made somebody proud. Somebody sees me, you know, somebody, somebody looks, even though it was negative, you know, but I just wanted to continue to make these guys proud and not, it was just a spiral. It was a spiral for me, you know. Um, I didn't need a dad, I had one in my neighborhood. It was these older guys, and kind of like Antoine said, I I wish these guys were good role models, but I began to imitate and I began to get, I call it discipleship, right? These guys began to just train me up in certain ways. And man, by the age of 15, 15, 16 years old, I was just a full-blown gang member, indoctrinated with the street mentality, with violence, you know. Um, and I if as if I could look back, it was due to not having having a dad in the home, but not really present, you know, not really uh engaging. So if if I can recall, I think for me that that that would be it there. I wish I could tell you I had a unique story, man, but that that that was like kind of like real quick.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Do you have a story of growing up without a dad? Or you had a destructive or distracted father? If you think it would be of value to share your story on the Dudes Without Dads podcast, I want you to pause, go to the link inside the bio, and apply to speak on the Dudes Without Dads podcast. And then if you know somebody that would be an incredible guest, please share this show with them because we can do more if we do it together. Now back to the show.

SPEAKER_06 10:35

Antoine said earlier, that was just like where I was at. That was kind of all of our stories. All the gang members that were from the gang I was from, none of us. We had a dad, we had what you call a sperm donor, but we we didn't have a an active father in the home or father figure, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Yeah, thank you. Curtis, Cody, anything to share?

SPEAKER_04 11:00

Yeah, I I can so but when this started, you said something in the absence, it's a little bit of a misnomer. In the absence of a um a model, you attach yourself to a mission. And I would say that there is no mission without the model to some degree. The the what I what I call the laws of culture, which are like gravity, you can you know deny that they're there, but if you jump out of the top of a building, you will hit the ground. Um, you can deny that these are the laws of culture, but this is the way that culture works. Um we look for people that we respect and admire, and we model our behavior after them. If you don't have a dad, you found it in Mac 10. You know what I mean? Yeah, like if you didn't have yeah, so and and you'll and you'll listen to that happen in everybody's stories. If you look at that as a thread that runs through everybody's stories, you'll see, in the absence of a real role model or somebody good that you can attack, you're still gonna have a role model, they're just modeling good or bad things, and we are such highly tuned social animals, and we have such a desire for each other created in us that we that's how we function, that's how we grow, that's how we model our behavior after people that we respect and admire. Now, while we respect them and admire them, can come, you know, that dude celebrated you, Gabriel. He's like, you know, so you started to have some type of respect, or you looked at him in a different way, and you start to kind of hunger after his modeling, you know. Um, so that's that's what stuck out to me when you said that mission thing. It was kind of a misnomer. But my I mean, if I went to my story, my dad, I had a good dad, I've had tons of good dads, and I've had lots of role models that by the grace of God I tried to attach myself to, but he spared me from any real influence that landed me in anything that I couldn't wiggle out of in the course of a couple of years, at least. So uh it wasn't it wasn't necessarily uh life-ending things or whatever, but um, but yeah, I mean I landed with all kinds of people that I modeled my behavior after. And this is what's so funny about like the high school, middle school. I've got a middle schooler right now, and I'm watching her try to figure out who she is, and like I watch her model her mother some, and then I watch her tear away and model these other people some and the discomfort that happens in those years. It's like it's like what I'm I can I'm doing it like I'm watching a movie, and I thank God that I have the experiences I do with with companies and watching people and their compulsive behaviors that drive them and the role models and how it's all built to be able to have that kind of foundation. But um, but yeah, I mean I had I had a I had a good dad, I had a great dad. He didn't he didn't do anything too crazy, but um you said discipline earlier, I had to pick switches, you know. I I got we had a we had a weep we had a weeping willow tree in our front yard, and uh I had to pick stitches off the weeping willow tree to get get spanked with the weeping willow tree. I mean, it's like getting stung by bees.

SPEAKER_05 14:27

Yeah, last night and this morning I've been reading through 2 Samuel and 1 Kings, and uh it didn't hit me until I'm listening to you guys talk. On David's deathbed, he's talking to Solomon. He does two things. One thing is he's conspiring murder, he's telling him who to kill to secure the throne. So don't do that. But the other thing that he did that I hadn't really noticed was he told Solomon, You are a man of wisdom. At least man, I'd be you are a man of wisdom. So then when Solomon is confronted by God in his dream, what does he ask for?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Wisdom.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

He got his identity from who his father said he was. As his father's dying, he's saying, This is what I see in you. So now when he's left alone without his father, his his earthly father there, and he's sitting in a place where it's him and his heavenly father, the only place he knows to go back to is this is who my dad said I was, so I guess this is who I am. Like it framed everything for. And so that that hit me as you guys were were just talking. But for me, like I my story is it's a little weird. Like, I didn't know my biological father growing up, but then when I was a baby, I was adopted. And so I grew up, I didn't know I was adopted until I was I don't know, maybe five, six years old. And so I just knew I just knew my dad. My dad was a he's a professional, like he races motorcycles, he ran a business, he's just like my hero, coolest guy ever. He's not a believer, but for me, I I became a Christian when I was 20. I had the perfect example of what God did for me because I had this man who's not a believer who stepped in. Him and my mom got divorced when I was five. And so now I'm five, and him and my mom split. And he could have, I would imagine, I don't know what it's like legally, but I would imagine at some point he can be like, uh, never mind. But he never in that process said, Well, you're only my adopted son. It was no, you're my son. Like, I you now have my last name. You didn't, you didn't do anything to earn it, you didn't, but you are my son, and you know, now so like I had this perfect example. I actually got to preach a sermon on Father's Day one time. I was praying over what to preach, and as I was praying, I just start bawling. And I text my dad, I'm like, Hey, can you can you come to my church this Sunday? Um, you know, like he didn't come to church, but if I asked him to, of course, he'd he'd come. And he showed up and I got to preach this Father's Day message and tell him in front of everybody because of you. I understood it was it was an easy path for me to understand what Jesus did for me. But then this is the last thing I'll say on this is pretty cool. Love it. I did not know and didn't have didn't know, didn't have a relationship with my biological father. Uh, but uh my my wife one day was she was like, Hey, look at this, and showed me a picture of somebody. I'm like, who's that? She said, That's your biological father. And I was like, it was like the first time I had seen his face because I didn't look him up. I didn't it's just because like I didn't have bitterness, I wasn't I wasn't angry because I felt like I was the luckiest kid in the world. Like I had I had a dad, I didn't put it against him, I didn't know what he was going through or what his story was. And but for a year, over a year in prayer, I'm hearing you need to forgive him. And I'm like, I do for over a year, it's just like this haunting whisper in the back of my head. And finally, I'm sitting there one day, it was a year into this, and I it I do so clearly, I just heard it's not for you. Uh oh. So I I I at the time I had Facebook, I don't have social media anymore. I got on Messenger and I found him and I sent him this message. I was like, hey, I just want to let you know. Like, I forgive you. He sent me back crazy long message. Like, you don't understand the day I was having, you don't understand what um, and so I got to go have dinner with my biological father, with my wife, his fiance at the time, I think now his wife, and reconcile. And so it was like this beautiful thing inside of forget, like Jesus, the Jesus is teaching us how to pray, forgiveness is in the center of the prayer, and then at the end of the prayer, that's reminding us if you do not forgive others, and it's like the freedom that it creates, not just for for me, but for him. So for those of us where it's like if I'm blaming my story all the time, it's like, man, you have an opportunity to step into the kingdom right now, like you wouldn't have if it was just easy going, like you have the opportunity to experience what Jesus is talking about right now in that freedom.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

So love that.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

I think you hit a chord that anybody that's listening is going to be, you know, processing, and it's this idea of forgiveness. Um, when you look at the gospel, when you look at becoming the dad you never had, you know, if you're listening today, you're listening because you found this community, you saw, you know, something that said dudes without dads, and it might fit with you. But I want you to know that the beginning block of becoming the dad you never had begins with receiving love from the Heavenly Father. And you don't know what you don't know until you know what you didn't know. And there was a moment in all of our stories where we come to experience the love of the Heavenly Father. And so, just for a second, um, does any of our dudes without any of our roundtable uh guys, do you remember the moment that you experienced personal forgiveness that freed you up to become the dad you never had? And if so, would you mind sharing it? Hey, I'm gonna interrupt the podcast. Hope it is adding value to you. And let me introduce myself. I'm Joshua Brown, founder of Dudes Without Dads. I'm a dude who grew up without a father, and he actually offered to pay for my abortion and not be in my life. And so this podcast is birthed out of my desire to be the dad I never had, and then encourage other men to become the dads they never had. And just to be straight and to be blunt, I need givers. I need individuals who believe in this ministry that believe that helping men become the dads they never had is a worthwhile pursuit. And I've got a giving link. You just hit QR code on the screen, or you can go inside the show notes and just become a monthly supporter of the Dudes Without Dads for your gift of anything over$20 a month. I'm gonna send you our season one uh Dudes Without Dad shirt. Just let us know what size you wear and I'll mail it uh to you. But that's all I've got, and I again appreciate you taking time to listen to this podcast, and now back to the show.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

No doubt. I do. Um I don't know if my microphone is actually funny or not, but um so mine is is one of the more what is a really compelling moment for me. It's maybe Right up there with when I committed my life to Jesus in the first place. Because at the time of doing that, I'm not sure I knew what I was doing. I think he did and he honored that, but I'm not sure I knew exactly what I was getting into. I knew I wanted out of what I was doing. You know what I mean? But I um so my wife and I are living in uh Louisville, Kentucky. We've moved now at this point five times and had two kids in two years. We've been married um about four years, five years. And um I had um a sex addiction issue. I had an addiction issue in general. I had an anxiety issue that I coped with all kinds of stuff. Um, I tried alcohol. I we could go through all the stories of of the things I tried to cope with. Um, but at the at this given time, I came home from work one day and I remember just being at the point of um of just an almost an anxiety attack going home and thinking, and I remember this phrase in my head saying, My marriage be damned, I have to get right with God. And I have to go and tell my wife, because she is my for whatever reason, it felt like she was the only person I could tell who had to stay. You know, any anyway, and I I there was there was some notion in me that she might leave. And uh I remember going home and telling her, and I'm rattling off all the information about my childhood and about everything I'd been through and everything I'd been doing and all this stuff, and just the shame and unloading on her. Um, so that night the kids are the kids are in bed, and I remember laying my head in her lap, and she goes, she said, It's not me against you, it's not you against me. I understand this to be you and me against whatever this is, and I'm gonna stick it out with you. And so, and I but what's what's crazy about that was it was as if my head was laying in the lap of Jesus Himself. She was the human hands of of Christ in my life, and it was the it was the most vivid I'd experienced him at that point, whenever I I got that um, yes, I understand, I'm with you. It's not like she was on the same side of the table going into that battle with me, and that made all the difference in the world.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Um without that moment, just unpack it for a moment. Let's say you were you chose not to, let's say you had free will, let's pretend, and you said, you know what, I'm gonna do my own thing, my own way, and I don't care who it affects. What do you think would have been the trajectory or the cost or consequences?

SPEAKER_04 25:01

Oh yeah, yeah, I'd have two kids being raised with with a dad, with multiple dads. I'd be I would not be married, I don't think. I think I'd have other kids. I think I would have devolved into all kinds of terrible behavior. Um, I mean, alcohol is a problem. I mean, if you you could just go to the end of the of the line, I mean, it could it totally cascade into a total destruction of not my life, but my kids' lives and their kids' lives and the people they touch. And now it's just the opposite direction of that. You know, it's it's a cascade in the other direction because of that injection of Christ in that in that given point.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah, I just want to make it clear to our listeners that God loves us, He demonstrated his love for us while he was on the cross. Um, it's not what you've done or what your parents have done or lack thereof. Nothing disqualifies you from the love of God. You have to respond to the gospel, and that starts by just receiving God's love for your life. And so I want to invite you to stick inside of the dudes without dads community. You're gonna hear stories of dudes who grew up just like you, and you're gonna hear their gospel transformational stories. That's a big word to say, the moment they experienced a God in heaven that loved them unlike any God they had ever experienced, any earthly dad they ever experienced, any drug, any addiction. And from that, it gives us the ability to forgive those that have done us wrong. As you guys look through your life, your story, and dudes y'all have worked with and tried to encourage them to not just be forgiven, but to forgive those that have trespassed against them. Have you seen stories of dudes that have tapped out, they've gone down a beaten path, and it's a direct result of them choosing not to forgive somebody that have harmed them in the past?

SPEAKER_05 27:04

Yeah, but the problem is after a while you can't trace it back. That becomes part of the problem. It's like after a while, I see symptom after symptom after symptom after symptom stack up, and I can't trace it back to the root anymore. It's like it's harder to find that root. You've ever heard the like the old parable, like the old man that tells he's trying to teach this little boy something about habits, and so he tells him to pick up the little, there's like a little sprout out of the ground. He's like, pull that out of the ground. Boy, it's like, no problem. All right, there's one little little bigger, pull that out of the ground. Little effort yanks it out. There's like a kind of like a bush in the ground. He a lot of effort finally gets it out, and then he walks over to this oak tree. All right, now pull this out of the ground. He's like, Not even gonna try. It's like that's what starts to happen. It's like we we ignore these things for so long, and this was where so my Josh, you know this, but in in well, I guess Cody, you know it too. In in 2021, my brother was murdered, he was shot and killed. A guy that a family friend that we knew broke into the house, shot my sister-in-law in the head, killed her, shot my my brother, killed him, shot my 10-year-old nephew four times. He lived. I have a three-year-old niece who he didn't shoot, and then he turned the gun on himself. And this was a family friend, a dude we knew. And so I knew that it's like I I had watched this because I had I had now started coaching in businesses, I had started pastoring. Like, I've seen enough people hold on to stuff like this to where I know the cancer that that is, the crippling effect. And so, dude, I cut everything off that week, other than good people, and I went, I sat on the back of my truck and I overlooked a river in Maryland, and I just sat in the silence and just like ate the pain. I'm just I'm sitting in it, I'm just gonna sit here until you do this because I can't figure it out. Because and dude, so I got a call a couple days later. He was killed, I think it was Monday night. I got a call on Wednesday from some of our pastors at the the church. We had a network of churches back home. And he said, Hey, you can say no to this. I'm like, all right. He said, But do you remember the sermon we wrote a couple months ago? Like, no, he's like, it was the Zacchaeus sermon. Like, okay, you don't remember what the sermon was. No, it's a sermon on forgiveness. You gotta start paying attention to sermon right. Okay. He said, Do you want to preach? I was like, Yeah. And so I sat there, but I knew it's like I can't go preach this sermon if it's not real in me. And I knew I couldn't do it, so it's like I'm backed against a corner. And so, like, I'm just the only thing I have is prayer at this moment. And I dude, I had this piece by the end of the week that I felt guilty for. Guilty, completely guilty. And this thing, I I had a marathon scheduled on Saturday and had to preach on Saturday. It was the most intense week of my life. And but as I'm running, I'm running, no headphones, not listening to anything. And this phrase came to mind lost is lost. Lost is lost. Like if you're lost, if you're in the woods and you're lost, every step is terrifying because you don't know if the next step constitutes increasing my lostness or getting into safety. And so it's like this just started playing. It's like he did this. And so I'm I want to share this one piece of it that so a month later, I'm reading through journal entries, journal after journal, and I'm I'm reviewing the quarter. And as I'm looking, on May 9th, May 9th or May 10th, 2021, 5:30 a.m. I write this whole thing on fragile. And I was talking about how fragile life is, and I was like in a moment of prayer. Like I could lose my mom, I could lose my sister, I could lose my all these people I could lose. And then I wrote a prayer and I said, God, thank you for peace, thank you for clarity. I wrote that the morning my brother was killed. I didn't remember writing it until I read back through. He prepared me that day, like nobody else can do that. And so, okay, last part of this, because this was this was something that I didn't understand. Like, this is where the cancer, God pulled the cancer out from the root. Because, yes, I forgave the people that were involved in this, but something that I had blocked out of my memory was the man that killed my brother came and asked me for help a week before he killed my brother. He came to me and asked for help because of a situation. And I was busy and I was stressed, and I blew him off. And so I had a friend. I was preaching a sermon, somebody asked me to come preach a couple months later. And he's like, I asked him, I said, Hey, can you pray for me? Because I'm gonna talk about you know the journal entry and I'm gonna tell this part of the story in the sermon. And he's he said, Yeah, I'll pray for you. And then he paused and he goes, I'm gonna pray for fresh pain. Like, you know, what Josh, you spelled out H E double hot, you spelled out hell, so I'm not gonna tell you what I was thinking of him in that moment. But I'm like, I've had plenty of that, like it was still fresh, but the day before the sermon, I go and sit back on my truck in the same spot, and I was like, okay, is there fresh pain? Show me, dude. I had blocked that conversation with him out of my memory. I dude, it hit me like a ton of bricks, and I just start weeping, like like just heaving, weeping. It's like he ripped it out of me in that moment, where it's like I didn't have to forgive anybody else. I had to forgive me. And if I would have held on to that for year after year after year, that comes out in so many different ways that you can't trace it back. That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

That's so good, Curtis. I have something to share, but I first want to see if any of our guys have something they want to share.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Um, yeah, I'll I'll do it quickly. I I think even the moment that I really asked for forgiveness was when I found out that God wasn't a God, that he was a father. Uh a moment my my cousin, uh, I was working at a church and he he rarely comes to this church, and he's like, Man, I need to take you out to eat. Uh I was like, All right, man, let me lock down the church, let me shut all the equipment down, over production. We go to I I remember the temperature of this day. We go to um uh Chili's. He's like, Man, I always wanted to tell you this. One, you're one of the best fathers I've ever seen. Uh, I just wanted to tell you that, but he also said, he says, there was a God wanted me to let you know, and as soon as he said this, I just like like Curtis, I just lost it. He says, God wanted me to let you know that there was a reason why God wouldn't let your father father you. He said it just like that. And as soon as he said it, he didn't say, he didn't need to say anything else. And I wept as if someone had murdered a family member. Like it was this ugly 2 p.m. in the middle of the day. Cry because I get this flashback. Because without having a father, I never felt that empty feeling of not having a father. And that moment was like, I was always there. I sent you men. I I came through the men I say you and this overwhelming love of a father. That's when God, that's when I actually like probably became a believer. I was probably 30. I'm 39 now. I've been in church my entire life. But when I the separation for me happened when God no longer became a deity and this divine out there in the cosmos being, and it became a real life, tangible father through that moment. I asked for forgiveness for not catching it sooner, for not recognizing it sooner. I was a kid who was playing very exceptional at everything I did. Uh got to go, even though I didn't have a father, I was I'm still here alive today out of all the places I lived. Um, but I was able to, you know, go to the basketball courts and I remember going to the creek, fishing with my shoes off, doing things as if there was a father next to me doing them. Doing and when I look back, I'm like, man, I I'm I'm actually privileged. Like, wait a second, I'm this, I'm overly privileged. Like, and and and when he said it, and he I just wept because I was like, I remember, I remember, I remember how good you've been to me. Why didn't anybody tell me you were a father first? And even when you read through the scriptures, uh Jesus never referenced God as God, he referenced him as father, father first. And the moment uh I had a chance to talk to my dad, uh, for probably the second time, my sister told me that he was coming to see her. He's a truck driver, he drives all over the country. And um, he's like, He's coming see me. I'm nervous, I'm this, I'm that. And so me knowing my sister, and those of you who have girls, girls, they're daddy girls. I mean, God put something in them little girls. So, I mean, my daughter will wake me up at 6:30, just hug, and she's she's got this fight thing going on with my wife. Like it's it's her against her. It's it's crazy. Uh, women are meant, they're they're daddy's girls. They're meant to be loved and just cherished and cuddled and loved, and that's it. And uh when it when she told me that, I was like, I need to call him because he needs to know what he's getting into. You're not gonna come into my my sister's life and and just completely just wreck it. So I call him and I was like, hey man, I just need to let you know, like, hey, you need to know what you're doing. I'm like, I'm manning up right now, look, bro. Like, I'm I'm in my full grown man it. And there was a moment where he begins to kind of talk and stutter a little bit. And and he was in the army uh when he left my mother, four kids sleeping on the floor. I believe maybe a year or two, you went off into the army. Uh, but I something in me, the Holy Spirit said, like, he didn't have a father, his father didn't have a father, the whole lineage. And as he's talking, and it's like, hey man, you, you know, your mom did this, and I I tried to do this, and I I promised I sent cards, I did this. And while he's talking, I says, I said, I forgive you. I said, Dad. First time I ever said the word dad, like in like for real, for real said it. I said, Dad, I forgive you. I said, let it go. I was like, you have been forgiven. I said, whatever guilt, whatever shame, and the Holy Spirit just starts to just go. And the what a man couldn't give me, I was able to give him, kind of like what Curtis said earlier. And he begins to weep on the phone. I I hear him this just cooped up man, he just begins to weep. And what was given to me years prior, the the sight of God as a father, and for me to be forgiven, I was able to return that to a man I still have never seen. So that's the power of forgiveness. That's why Jesus says, do this thing all the time. Matter of fact, 70 times 70, just do it all the time because you're gonna need it and you don't know you're gonna need it. Or someone else is looking for it. And it's hard, forgiveness is like gaining trust. It's it's a it it's a hard present. Like it's it's a very rare thing to give someone, very rare. And so, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah, so good. I'm gonna let Gabriel share here in a second uh a closing um kind of like a benediction almost, inviting guys that may not know Jesus to come to know Jesus because I believe the Holy Spirit can speak to us inside of a car on a walk or wherever you might be listening, a prison, wherever you might be listening to this. Um, I remember after I come to know Jesus, my my roommate got saved. His name was Jason, and he came to know Jesus, and then as we he was my roommate, so we often had conversations, and we got on this issue of unforgiveness or forgiving his dad for things he had done to him. And I remember Jason looking at me and saying, Josh, you just don't know what my dad has done to me. There are dudes that have experienced wounds that explain a lot of the behaviors that have led them to the legacy or lack thereof that need to be reminded that God can speak, he can heal, he can forgive, and he can release the debt. Next week, next time we we we have a conversation, I'm gonna open up with this conversation. Where do demons go when they have nowhere to go? There is actually a biblical framework for this, and we often don't recognize that when demons leave our lives, they actually go somewhere. And I'm going to we're gonna unpack where they go when demons have nowhere to go. But before we, you know, get into that, I want to give Gabriel an opportunity to share with our dudes who are listening that might need prayer, might need hope, might need encouragement, and then we're gonna sign off. Gabriel, would you mind sharing?

SPEAKER_06 40:51

Absolutely, man. You know, the the biggest, I want to say the biggest lie I believed was that God didn't love people like me. I had I didn't have a dad, I had I had been rejected, you know. Every man in my life had failed me. The dudes that I thought were supposed to be my father figures turned their backs on me, you know. So just disappointment after disappointment. So when it was shared with me in a prison cell that your heavenly father loves you, right away when they said heavenly father, I was just kind of like, oh bro, all the men in my life had had had done me wrong, you know. But then this relationship, this relationship was introduced to me, this personal relationship, not a religion, not theology, you know, it was more just get to know Jesus. And I was like, Yeah, man, but you don't have no idea. I've already known Jesus when I was a youth, you know. I used to go to church and stuff like that, but look where I'm at. And I'm talking about a full-blown gang member looking at a life sentence in prison, you know, and this dude, you know, begins to just, without me knowing, just love on me, man. Share the gospel with me. And I began to just kind of get angry because I had been calloused in my heart about father figures, you know, and this dude's trying to share with me how there's this heavenly father that loves you so much that he sent his one and only begotten son to die on the cross for you, right? And I'm just kind of trying to let him know the lifestyle I've had and this and that. And there is just I I it's what we call divine appointment, man. God knows, kind of like my brother Antoine and Curtis shared, man. God knows exactly what we need to hear and what we need to go through to get our full attention. And if anyone's here just listening, you are not from the reach of God, man. Jesus loves you, he's got a plan for you, and you just have you just have to open your heart to him. And I know it's difficult. You're gonna meet, you're gonna get to know us, man. We are some messed up dudes here, man. We a lot of us, we don't deserve to be here, but we'll testify you, man. If you need living proof, you got these five knuckleheads right here that'll tell you, man, Jesus, he will not disappoint you. You know, you you open up your life to him and you're gonna see, man, what what what he can do in your life. So I just want to give you that open invitation, man. Um, if you hear him speaking to you, if there's something inside of you, like, oh man, I don't know, something's going on inside my heart. Open it up. That's that's him speaking into your life right now, you know? And I'm excited, man. What's gonna unpack through this through this podcast, dudes without. Dads, because I know you're gonna see living proof that God is a miracle worker, that God is He's a lover of your soul. So, man, I I I just want to leave you with this. If God can change, as you get to know me, if God can change a person like myself, He can change anyone out there.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

So forgiveness is more for you than them.

SPEAKER_06 44:29

I had inner peace for the first time in my life.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

It's just Jesus. Just Jesus.