You Can’t Father Like God Until You Let Him Father You (Brian Doyle)

In this episode of Dudes Without Dads, Joshua interviews Brian (Iron Sharpens Iron) about father wounds, discipleship, and becoming a godly father by first getting connected to the Perfect Father—God. You’ll learn why you can’t disciple your kids into a walk with Jesus if you’re not walking with Him yourself—and how affirmation, brotherhood, and intentional leadership change a home.

What You’ll Learn

• Why you can’t give away what you don’t have spiritually
• The difference between teaching what you know vs. reproducing who you are
• How father wounds affect identity, addiction, and discipleship
• The power of hearing: “You are my son… I love you… I’m pleased”
• Why church programs can’t replace a dad’s role in spiritual formation
• How to build brotherhood (iron sharpens iron) that actually changes men
• Practical “daily/weekly” rhythms for leading your home with intention🔗 LINKS / CTAs
  • Website / Guest Application: dudeswithoutdadspodcast.com
  • Learn more about Brian / Iron Sharpens Iron: ironsharpensiron.net
  • Subscribe for weekly episodes (every Thursday)
  • Share this with a friend who’s carrying father wounds
• #fatherhood #discipleship 

Chapters / Timestamps
00:00 Intro: The point of being a dad (discipleship)
 00:35 “You can’t give away what you don’t have”
 01:10 Dads reproduce who they are (not just what they know)
 02:05 Why dad is pivotal in God’s design
 03:25 Common father wounds + the “Promise Keepers” moment
 05:55 The Perfect Father: healing starts with God
 07:10 Why everyone wins when men go from wounded to healthy
 08:30 Churches miss men (and why it’s not working)
 10:15 Healing + forgiveness: is it only “get right with God”?
 11:10 God’s affirmation: “You are my son… I love you…”
 13:05 Iron Sharpens Iron: how men are trained (not a content dump)
 14:45 Brotherhood: the missing fuel for men’s growth
 16:15 Practical call to action: invite men personally
 18:00 Fathering rhythms: dates with kids + leading the home
 20:10 Sabbath + controlling the rhythm of your household
 22:10 “First things first”: wife, kids, walking with God
 24:00 Recommended resources + where to find Iron Sharpens Iron
 25:00 Closing: forgiveness brings peace

fatherhood, father wound, sonship, men's ministry, christian men, healing, identity, intentional fatherhood, dudes without dads, joshua brown, eric manly, the intentional dad, generational curses, masculinity, christian podcast, faith and fatherhood, becoming a better dad, father absence

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's the whole point about being a dad? Discipling your children to become followers of Jesus. You can't give away something you don't have.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

We'll teach what we know, but we'll reproduce who we are. And so we ourselves happened, the Spirit of God.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

It's really about getting connected to the perfect Father. You help a man walk with God and yield to the Lordship of Christ and be a fully engaged Christ follower, all the people in his life, they soar.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

The whole transformational moment was when when a man hears, I love you. And when you hear your heavenly father, love you. Thanks. That's powerful. Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had. Brian, welcome to the show. Thank you, Joshua. Good to be with you. It really is an honor, and I want to jump right into uh our conversation today. And I want you to know that many of our listeners have grown up without a father or without seeing what it looks like to be a godly father. And when you think about all the men that you've ministered, all the those that you've met throughout many years of teaching discipleship. What are some of the major challenges that you've noticed that men face as it relates to stepping into the role of being a father?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Well, yeah, uh, first of all, it's a challenge for anybody, no matter what your background is. And uh we minimize that challenge for some reason, especially in a local church. And I think what's happened is that we have uh strayed from the design of God, that the dad is pivotal in the discipling of his children. I mean, again, back to the plan of God. I grew up in a good home, not a godly home. The good dad, not a godly dad. I came to faith after I left home. Uh, that's not to minimize or put down my own dad. He did a good job, but he wasn't a believer. Uh, he came to Christ well after that. So, what did uh what did I need? I needed to get connected to my heavenly father. And so, fortunately, I had men in my life who uh helped me come to know Jesus and then build a firm faith foundation. The real challenge when it comes to fathering is to be connected to your heavenly father and have a firm faith foundation because ultimately, what what's the whole point about being a dad? It's about discipling your children to become followers of Jesus. That's our audience today. You know, if you're not a Christ follower, then that would be step one, get connected to God through Christ. Number two would be get established in your faith, build that firm faith foundation. You can't give away something you don't have. Uh, I know there's a lot of dads probably joining us on this podcast who, if they're Christian dads and they've got kids, they want their kids to walk with God and be disciples for the for their whole life, all in. Well, that's probably not going to happen if it's not happening with you. Same with you, Joshua, and me. Uh, you know, more, this is kind of a trite saying, but more is caught than taught. And it's why we have this great privilege as a dad to allow it to be caught, to live it out in our home in front of our children. No one can do what God designed a man to do. You might be in a world-class church with world-class children's ministry and youth ministry, wonderful people who are professionals. They play the guitar, they've got masters in theology. Uh, they're terrific people on every level. But again, nobody can do what God has designed a man to do. Nobody carries more weight in the lives of a child than his dad. And I mean, that's just the way it is. I'm not making this up. It's not like, oh, this is well, that's your opinion. That's not nothing to do with opinion. That has to do with reality, that has to do with the scripture, that has to do with research that has validated the scripture. And so, what do we want to do as dads? We want to build our own firm faith foundation so that we can help other people, like our children and even our grandchildren, to develop their own firm faith foundation.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

That's so good. What I heard you say very well is that we can't give what we ain't got. And so it has to start with us having our own personal, intimate relationship with God. Right. And we will teach what we know, but we'll reproduce who we are, and so we ourselves have to have to possess uh the spirit of God. Um, I want you to take a second and think about those that have come to faith that know Jesus, but for whatever reason they struggle with what we might call father wounds. Yeah. What are some common father wounds that you see inside of men who who love Jesus, want to do right, but for whatever reason, there seems to be emotional identity issues that that may pop up.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Right. Well, first of all, that would be normal. Normal. I mean, it's just what's not normal is having a dad who's a godly man, who's intentional in investing in you. If you have that, raise your hand. Well, not many hands are going up. In fact, talking about hands, it was about 30 years ago, 1994, 95. I had just I'd been volunteering for a ministry called Promise Keepers, and then I was going on staff with them, leaving industry. We had a uh a large gathering in of all places, New Hampshire, Manchester, New Hampshire. And the I'm sitting in the front row because I'm kind of help setting the thing up, and the uh the presenter asked the men to rate their fathers one to ten. One being terrible dad, ten being awesome, wonderful dad. Well, I'm kind of you know, I'm doing my own thing, rating my dad, gave him like a seven or eight, something like that. Yeah, because he was a good dad. And so he says, Okay, how many guys would rate your dad five or above, something like that? Of course, I put my hand up, I felt without without thinking, but I just felt like that's probably what the majority of guys did. You know, I didn't really look around. Uh, but then he goes, Oh, how many guys would give uh their dad a score of five or below, below five? And then the I'm looking at the speaker and he goes, Whoa, I go, what's whoa? I turn around and I look, I go, whoa. Yeah, the majority of guys had raised their hands. The majority of men who had gone to a Promise Keeper Christian men's event were scoring their own fathers as below, well, not like below average, below five, like not good, not around, not there, and just bad. So I'm thinking my immediate thought, Joshua, was, and I guess I'm new. I'm just kind of entering into this whole men's ministry specific thing. I'm on a big learning curve, and I'm thinking, uh-oh, we got a problem. And you know what? We do have a problem. Good news, bad news. Good news is we're in this problem together. Bad news is it really is a problem, and you cannot just brush it under rug. You you need, you need, I need, every man who's listening need, no matter how we score a father. It's really about getting connected to the perfect father. There's only one father is perfect. No one's scoring 10. I mean, no one's giving their dad a 10, except Jesus. Jesus can give his dad a score of 10 because he was a perfect father. Our job when we're disciple men, this is why I give my life to discipling men. You know, people go, Oh, you're really into the men's thing. I go, actually, I'm I'm into children and women. I just choose to go through the portal of men, because that when you build godly men, men who are connected to their heavenly father, guess who wins? All those other people. 100%. All those other people, when you help, like in your words, when you help a man go from wounded to healthy, all those other people are winners. It's not just about the man. We've got to give weight, we've got to see men as God sees them. Not more, but not less. You help a man walk with God and yield to the lordship of Christ and be a fully engaged Christ follower, all the people in his life, they soar. I mean, if they're married, she's soaring. If they got kids, they're soaring. But if you do not, if you try to bypass and go the route of 21st century church ministry, honestly, where we just we don't know how to reach men, we don't know how to disciple men, they don't seem responsive. So we just kind of go around them and go directly to their constituency, and we wonder why it's not really working. Yeah, because it's outside of God's design. So, what do we need to do? No matter what what you score your dad, we've got to build that relationship with our Heavenly Father. That's the key thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

And so I the question I presented was in regards to wounds, and then you connect right the solve being working through your own relationship with God. Um have you seen a personal correlation between your wounds getting healed as you move to God, or are there other things that a guy can do? You know, so just to set you up, I know you know stories. I remember as soon as I gave my life to Jesus, I had a roommate, and my roommate came to know Christ shortly after I did, and then we were talking about forgiveness. And he said, I cannot forgive my dad for what he's done for done to me. And I I was very blunt back then because scripture's kind of black and white and I didn't have soft skills. And I said, you know, the scripture kind of teaches if you're heaven, if you don't forgive man for their sins, the scripture teaches your heavenly father won't forgive you of your own sins. And whether that's true or not true, I believe the scripture teaches that, and so it has to be true. His life, if you followed it, progressively gotten worse until he died of a drug overdose. So he fell away from God. And it was the root was a wound that he could not forgive his father biologically that he's done. And so I'm trying to think of the other Jasons that are like, dude, I am not gonna forgive my dad for what he's done, to my mom, to my family, to you name it. What would you speak into that guy's life? Is it just get right with God, or is there work he needs to do? I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story. And if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you, I want you to stop and hit subscribe. I am on mission to help men become the dad they never had. Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions, identity issues, and really what we need is we need a model. We need to see people that have broken the pattern and come alongside of them. I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey. Every Thursday, we're gonna release a new episode. Each episode is gonna help you and others become the dads they never had. Hit subscribe and share with a friend. Now let's get back to the story.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Well, yeah, it's it's a good question, and every guy's unique. It it would be um ridiculous to give a pet answer for the personal wounds that each of us are carrying as a result of the of our earthly fathers. But I would say this I mean, back to the perfect father. The perfect father spoke words of affirmation. I think you and I chatted or emailed on this. You know, Matthew 3:17, Mark 1.11, Luke 3.22 all recount Jesus' baptism when God, the Father, keep in mind what he did, he spoke when Jesus can baptized coming out of the water, the dove comes on, Spirit of God. He spoke out loud for others to hear as well. Spoke audibly, you are my son, whom I love, with you I'm well pleased. You know, if if you haven't heard those words, you need a man to speak those words on behalf of your earthly father. I would I would say on this podcast right now, we can do that. If you if you're listening today or watching today, and you've not heard those words, these are the words of your heavenly father. All I'm doing is recounting them from scripture. That you as a man, you are a son of the living God. Jesus died for you. You are precious in his sight, he's paid the ultimate cost. You are a son of the living God. Number two, God loves you. He loves you not because of what you've done or who you are or where you know where you're headed. He just loves you, period. It's this unconditional love that only God the Father can give. And he's proud of you. That's 21st century vernacular for with you. He's well pleased. He's proud of you, not because of your good performance or the fact that you're, you know, listening to this podcast, you're going to church, all that stuff is good, and please keep doing it. But he's proud of you because of the man you are and are becoming. So you are a son of God, you are well loved, and you are, he's well pleased with you. You need to believe that. I would say go to the scriptures. Again, Mark 1.11, Matthew 3.17, Luke 3.22. Meditate on those uh words, uh, read them, reread them, reflect on them, and then respond to them with a uh a prayer of thanksgiving to God, who is your heavenly father. Your earthly father came up short. Your heavenly father, not so much.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, it's so good, it's so rich. And so thank you for that. And I'll include those pieces of scripture in the show notes, and and I I'll myself will be spending time meditating on those on those words, and you know, to your point. The whole transformational moment was when when when a man hears um, you know, for me to be Joshua, it would be Joshua, I love you. And and when you hear your heavenly father love you, it changes everything. So that's powerful. You're part of a ministry that you lead called Iron Sharpens Iron, and you do equip men um for spiritual leadership and training. What are some of the uh key elements that you teach inside of Iron Sharpens Iron?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, well uh training is the key. Again, the uh the ministry of Iron Sharpens Iron is we're a parichurch ministry. We come alongside the church. We're here to complement the local church. In my experience of the last 30 years of doing this full-time, uh, I've seen very little, I'm tempted to say none, but I'm just gonna say very little church church work that's doing a good job when it comes to discipling men. So, what do we do? We do, we offer the church some resources and training toward that end. One of the things that has had some level of favor from God is a simple one-day annual conference that focuses on training men in their distinct roles as being a man. Like, for instance, you were talking about fathering, not parenting, fathering. There's a difference. Not uh being a spouse, being a husband, there's a difference. Uh, not just you know uh being released from uh strongholds, no, tackling you know, lust and anger and strongholds that men deal with in the flesh. So Iron Shepherd's Iron is specific to being a man. It's the kind of ministry you just can't do on Sunday morning. It would not work because your the context doesn't work. You got women and children and your grandmother and you know your neighbor. It's just you can't talk to men like that on Sunday morning, but men do need that kind of context. They knew they do need, I'm gonna use a word uh called a biblical exhortation. You know, rise up, O men of God, have done with lesser things, give heart and soul and mind and strength and serve the king of kings. Rise up, O men of God, the church for you doth weight, her strength, unequal to the task. Rise up and make her great. You know, men are just wired for significance. Men are wired to accomplish, to advance. And yet the local church, we we have no idea how to talk to men. We just we talk to them like they're just regular people. I was married for 30 years, recently got remarried after eight years, uh, losing my sweet wife, Barb. But when Barb and I would bring, we have five kids, when we would bring our five kids to church as they're, you know, they were growing up, and we'd pretty much take up the role. And um, you know, say I'm speaking at a church or I'm visiting a church, I bring my wife and five kids, use that as an example. The church would see me and they go, Oh, look at that crew. And then, you know, they might introduce themselves later. But I know how churches think. First of all, it's not hard to figure out. They start telling you everything that's going on. If I've got a junior high or a middle school, hey, we've got a great middle school program. Got a high school, hey, you should check out our high school program. For my wife, hey, we've got a women's fellowship. And for men, yeah, we we have a breakfast that meets, I'm not sure when, but the here's the idea. The church sees those seven people who all have the last name Doyle as seven people, they see him as seven constituents. What they don't say, and this is where I think we miss it as a church, the local churches miss this continually. We don't see him as a unit, it's a unit. And guess what? There's a leader to that unit, and that's a team, it's my wife and I, but I'm the one responsible. I'm the only male on the planet who's responsible for those people. You've you've got to see that unit as God sees it, and then you've got to go after the unit leader, the team leader, and equip him. Equip him. That's why we do equipping conferences, because men need to be equipped. I mean, I I don't I didn't know how to be a dad or a husband. I mean, I kind of figured it out, I guess. You know, you just kind of do your best. But it's not like I have this outstanding role model. Remember, I had a good dad, not a godly dad. There wasn't anything for me to follow except just, you know, go to work, show up, keep my nose clean. Yeah, God wants a lot more than that.

unknown 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

And so in the church, we've got to see the family. Um, if we see, so here's what I would summarize. If we see our constituency, remember Shepherd God's flock that's under your care, if we see the people who show up on Sunday morning um as households and not as individuals, what will happen among good godly elders and leaders, men will rise to the surface. They'll see, they'll see you know, Brian and Barb and the kids will go, what are we doing for Brian? Because he's got five kids. Is anybody helping Brian? Well, you somebody better help Brian because there's a wife and five kids that desperately needs the church to help Brian. And if you don't help Brian, the losers are the wife and five kids. So, do you see what I'm talking about? It's a um it's a ministry philosophy that God lays out in his word, Deuteronomy 6, where it Four to seven lays out in his word, talk about this, talk about what? Talk about God's word when you sit at home, when you walk along the road, when you rise up, when you lie down. Very few men take that on, that spiritual leadership in the home. And so what happens is that we defer to the professionals who are there on Sunday morning or Wednesday night, whatever it might be, and we think that they'll get it done. They won't. So if you're listening today and you're very active in your church and your kids are very active, okay, which is great. But if you think it's going to mean anything, it's not. It's not going to mean anything. Just Google research, Barna, LifeWay, kids leaving the church. Just Google it. You'll see that two out of three kids in evangelical Bible teaching churches will not make it. They will not launch out of the home and continue to follow God. That's two out of three. That's just completely unacceptable. And it's because we're doing it wrong. We're handing over our responsibility to professionals. God wants us to do that. It's our job.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah, we could almost talk for a minute about deconstructing why churches set up the way that it is. But I want to move into what's fueling you. When you talk about discipleship, you know, most guys your age might be retired, might be hitting golf balls, might be, you know, living their best life. Why in the world, in the later years, the the second half, are you fueled with such passion and vigor to disciple and call men to act like men?

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Well, I mean, it's because it's the design of God. I mean, if there was a plan B, then I'd probably be a little bit more relaxed. But there is no plan B. There's only plan A. And so, as men, you, me, and every guy listening today, we've got to step it up because it's the enemy of our souls who has come in and blinded us and caused us not to hear and understand that this is the design of God. You know, there are other areas, Joshua, where we can hand over uh responsibilities to professionals, like changing the oil in our car. You know, I used to do that, then I found that these guys do it for 20, 30 bucks. I go, you got it. Or like mowing, I used to mow my lawn once a week. Had my boys mow it, and then some guy came up and he told me how much he'd do and what he'd do. I go, you got it. I mean, we can hand uh hand over some responsibilities to other people, but we cannot hand this over to anybody, no matter how good they are. It continues to be a blind spot. Uh, so we need to we need to model it, we need to declare it. Uh, we need to equip men. Uh, there are guys who are ready right now to step up into their roles as spiritual leaders, as dads, no matter how they would score their dads, no matter they had no dad or a great dad. Every dad needs equipping, needs training, needs encouragement. We call the ministry Iron Sherpens Iron. And people go, Well, hey, what's the theme of the conference next year? I go, Iron Sherpens Iron. They go, wasn't that the theme last year? I go, well, yeah, and that will be the theme next year, and the year after, by the way, because uh we do this together. You know, it's Joshua and Brian and Tony and Frank. We travel this road together, we encourage one another, we sharpen one another, we exhort one another. One of the reasons men are not engaged and fired up and full of fuel, fuel their faith is because they're they've slipped away from brotherhood. They've got these acquaintance type relationships. They show up at church. How you doing? Good, how you doing, good? How's your week? Fine, how's your week? Fine. It's like, I'm what? Really good and fine. That's all we got going. Busy, had a busy week. Oh, yeah, you you must be important. Yeah, we need men. They have permission to speak into our life. We need men that will call us up, encourage us, uh, point us to the savior, uh, pray with us and for us. One of the reasons, but probably the main reason why men, again, in evangelical Bible teaching churches are not aggressively growing in Christ is because they are not well connected to other men. They might even be in a small group, life group, disciple group, whatever you call it, but it's it's men and women, and the women are connected. They figured this out. The guys are still at the acquaintance level. And we we need to get to that iron sharpening iron type relationship.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

If I'm a pastor and I'm listening to the Dudes Without Dads podcast, and I'm in one of those churches that there's not a model for the type of church you're referring to or discipleship. Call me to action, tell me what to do. How how can I change things and make a difference with our church?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Right. Yeah, again, again, very common. So you don't go, yeah, just no good. Guess what? Every pretty much everybody's like that. At least four out of five churches, represented by the guys are listening to this podcast, are kind of like that. That's not doing much. In fact, not only not doing much, barely doing anything, it's almost like they just might check a box, but they're not evil, uh, they're not bad, they just you don't know what you don't know. They've tried things in the past, hasn't really worked, and they go, we tried that before and it didn't work. I get all that. So if I'm a guy in my local church and I do want to see ministry to men rise, and I want to see guys encouraged, I just kind of do what I call under the radar ministry. There may come a time where it will become above the radar ministry, but that will be because you've got elders and leaders and deacons and pastors who join you in your passion and in your vigor to build godly men. But until that time comes, what you gotta do is you gotta, you know, reach out to Tony, Frank, and Tom and say, Hey, what's a good time we can get together? Hey, here's what I would do, uh Joshua. Say, say you and I, uh, we want to get together, well, and we're in our local church, and we say, let's do it. And I say, Hey, why don't I go ask uh Frank? And so I go to Frank and I say, Hey, Frank, Joshua and I are thinking we want to get together, encourage one another on some kind of regular basis, maybe even weekly. Uh, would you would you be up for that? Because we both thought of you. And he goes, Yeah, I think I'd be up to that. And he might start asking practical questions like when, where, what, that kind of stuff. But with a mistake we make in men's ministry, I've made it, I don't make it anymore, though, is I don't lead with the when, the where, and the what. I just lead with, I just say to Frank, Joshua and I want to get together on some kind of regular basis and build some brotherhood, and we both thought of you. Would you like to do it with us? I'm just telling you, guys say yes to that. They just say yes. And you know what? You figure out the the what and the where and all that kind of what time you'll figure that out. But you need to make a personal invite. You can't schedule it, you know, put it on a location, then ask men to that thing. That doesn't work. You know, there's 15 reasons why guys can't do that kind of stuff. Well, you look them in the eye and you say, Hey, Joshua and I, we were thinking of you. You want to do it with us? And so then you start to do it in your own local church. You build some camaraderie, you build some up, you each invite another guy. All of a sudden, you got like a little group of guys doing something. Um, you go on vacation, you do something together. You, yeah, you have a cup of coffee, yeah, you might have lunch, but you're also building and sharing and sharpening one another. Um, yeah, you might read a book, yeah, you might do a Bible study. All that kind of stuff is up to you. But the key thing is the brotherhood. Are you going to a place that you weren't there before? Are you being intentional? And it takes guys like you and I to be willing to be. Uh, I use the words honest, open, vulnerable, transparent. If I expect other guys to be honest, open, vulnerable, and transparent. Uh, so you go first, you go first, you take the risk. Uh, you go, well, I've done that before and it didn't work out. And, you know, I had it was supposed to be confidential and it wasn't. Yeah, men are gonna fail you for sure. You're gonna have to take the risk. You have to take the risk, go out there, lay it out there, appropriate risk, and invite men to join you in that type of relationship.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yeah, I appreciate that. And for our listeners, think of the consequences of not doing it. Nothing changes by nobody stepping up. And so I appreciate you offering that. I was trying to think what does H-O-V-T spell? Um, and I couldn't think of it. But you that was basically the the four first letters of of the the action. I was trying to make uh a word out of it, but there's not one. Um when you meet or train a man to be the a dad or to be a man, um are there any just ABCs that are practical steps that you can do daily that starts forming him into the man that God wants him to be? Do you have an incredible story of overcoming the home that you were raised in? Or maybe the father wombs that were placed inside your life? If so, I want to share it with other dudes without dad. Simply go to dudeswithoutdad podcast.com and apply to be a guest on the show. The reason it's important to share your story is because when you share what God has done for you, it helps other men believe that God can do it for them and he can. To share your story, head over to Dudes Without Dad Podcast today.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

There are seasons of fathering, obviously. You know, uh so my kids are now 22, 24, 26, 28, and 29. They're all in their 20s. Um, so I father differently, obviously, hopefully it's obviously, than I did when they were in 24689. 20 years later, it looks different. So, you know, you kind of have to take that into consideration. I would say, though, this is that I built a relationship with each of my kids. Uh, I treated them as you know, siblings, so they were you know one another. We had a household of faith, but I also did a fair amount uh with them individually. Uh I mean I called them when they were little, you know, dates with dad, and we would take them out. Yeah, they looked different depending on whether they were a son or daughter. Different kids wanted different things, different kids talked to dad differently. Um, but the key was uh inviting them into a relationship with their dad, an individual relationship with their dad. Yes, we were a family of seven, but we had individual relationships. I think that part of fathering sometimes gets missed. We might go to games and stuff like that, but be careful. Going to games, and yeah, first of all, go to games for sure. But going to games just as a platform for building a relationship. If you go to a game, then go out for ice cream and talk and communicate love and appreciation and what you think about your kids. All these things, we live in a very busy uh culture that's continually trying to control the rhythm of our lives and of our home. And so, you know, you're gonna you're you're the man, you're the leader of your home, you're gonna have to figure out how can my wife and I take back control of the rhythm of our home. Uh, because if if you don't take it, if you're not intentional, you'll be just running ragged. The church will run you ragged, the the baseball leagues will run you ragged, the the local school will run you ragged, public or private. Everyone's got a plan for your life. And they're somewhat demanding that you follow it. And you know, this is where dad comes in, it's where the husband comes in. You say, no, we won't be doing that, we're doing this instead. Again, back to you know, the uh Dirammy 6, even Dehrammy 5, which is the Ten Commandments. You look at the commandment of remember the Sabbath. Well, that's just the Sabbath. If you're not remembering the Sabbath, uh that might be a takeaway from today's podcast. Clear out a Sabbath and just focus on your family, do things together, go on a picnic, go on an outing. My dad, who is again not a godly man, on Sunday afternoons, we would go to church. We went to church, uh kind of like good citizens. Of course, this was in the 60s and 70s, and then often, when I say often, like a lot, we would go for a drive on Sunday afternoon. Mom, dad, myself, my brother, my sister. And of course, I'd ask, where are we going? And my dad would say, for a drive. Where? Don't worry about it. And it was just my getting my mom out of the house, going for a drive. It was a change of pace. The purpose of the Sabbath is to give us a change of pace. And so, as dads, that's an example of being a spiritual leader and telling everybody who wants your time on the Sabbath, no, we won't be doing that. Well, yeah, we can do it on Monday or Tuesday. So, you know, not to make a big deal about the Sabbath. The Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath, but take advantage and listen intently to what God had behind the Sabbath. It's for our good. You know, so as a man, take responsibility for the rhythm of your home.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

So good. Um, what resources do you often point men to? You know, if I'm trying to listen to books or read books or podcasts, uh yes, you know, the Bible, 100%. Is there any other, you know, authors or anybody that you'd point us to?

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Yeah. Well, there's again, there's lots of resources. We're not short on resources. Uh I think though resources can be overrated. Uh, one of the things we don't do at Iron Shepherd's Iron Conferences is it's not a content dump. It's not. I mean, if you just if you want a content dump, you know, there's plenty of stuff. Just go to Amazon, click on fathering. But if you are, if you want a follow-up to this podcast, I would say uh for dads, uh a couple of the books that I really benefit from myself were by a guy named Steve Ferrar. F-A-R-R-A-R. Uh, two of the better ones would be Point Man, being a point man for your family, and anchor man, being the anchor for your family. If that doesn't resonate with you, you're listening to the wrong podcast. I mean, think about what an anchor does. The boat is just that the tide wants to take the boat this way, the current wants to take the boat this way, and you know, the current is what it is, the tide is what it is, but that boat's got an anchor, and that boat's not going anywhere unless the anchor says so. That's what you are, that's what I am. That's what a dad is. So pick up anchor man or point man by Steve Ferrar. You know, you know, there's plenty of podcasts. Listen to this podcast. We got a podcast, Iron Shepherd's Iron, called Building Men. Again, the point is you build dads. They don't just happen, they don't come out of the chute. You got to build them, you got to be intentional to build them. So uh that that might be a starting place there.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Hey, as we close up, I have two, you know, kind of final questions, but you know, this one right here is if if you had if your eulogy was given and you had one, you know, basically your message to the world, what what is that thing that you want to be remembered? If we cut you open and you were to share exactly what you feel and what you want people to know, what do you want men to know?

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Well, I would say this first things first. You know, first things first. So, you know, you know, I've I'm kind of on the other side of my life at this point. I'm 67. So in some ways, I've been there, done that. I think a lot of my friends are, you know, they're my peers. They're in their 60s and 70s. Uh, a lot of guys have built ministries, had churches, senior pastors, and great churches. And I would just say, from their perspective, from our perspective, you know, all that kind of stuff, building a business, making a lot of money, having a great church, building this great ministry. You know, when you get to be a little bit older, it's just not that big of a deal anymore. Here's what you go to bed thinking about. My children, that's what I go to bed thinking about, and my grandchildren, and my walking with God, so that my children and grandchildren can say that I've that I've fought the fight, that I finished the race, that I've kept the faith. Um, so sometimes in our 20s and 30s and 40s, we lose track of first things first. And with our family in mind, we give our very best time and energy to things outside the home. That's a mistake. That's a mistake. And if you're doing that right now, you need to change your job. You need to change your job. I know you're making a lot of money. Who cares? Nobody really cares. Uh, go get another job, get another job so that you can invest your best time with your family, because that's what that's the design of God. That's keeping first things first. That's why we, you know, we're talking about building spiritual leaders in the home, the church, and the community. But it starts in home. I mean, if for you guys who are uh aspiring to be church leaders, or you maybe are a church leader, look at 1 Timothy chapter 3, verses 4 and 5, where you know the qualifications of a church leader is that um his children respect him and they are well-manded. Uh, that the home is a place where the kids are being raised. And that's because ultimately, if you're going to shepherd other people, you gotta make sure you've done it first in your own home. First things first, your wife and then your children, your wife and then your children. Yeah, those are the first things.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

That's so good. If I want to find out more about you, about if there's an Iron Sharpens Iron Conference near me, where can I go? Where can I learn more?

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Well, uh, depending on when you listen to this, uh, we might have, I don't know what we'll be having, but uh during the summer we have a fair amount of online things uh in the fall, and then into the spring, we have many more uh uh live events. But you go to ironshepersiron.net. Ironshepersiron.net. We also have a blog uh in June. We're doing a lot for dads on that blog, ironshepherd's iron.blog. You know, I mean we'll found that there's a we have a whole bunch of guys that have uh contributed to the blog site this uh this month. So you know join us on Iron Shepherd's Iron, we come up pretty quick. Again, the key is doing this with other men. Uh don't try and change yourself. Get over lock arms with other good-hearted men. Start this week, find a guy at church, get a cup of coffee, make the invitation.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

That's so good, Brian. Thank you for your time. I look forward to chatting with you in the future and until the future. God bless.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Okay, God bless you, Jacob. Forgiveness is more for you than that. I had inner peace for the first time in my life. It's just Jesus. Just Jesus.