Pornography, Fatherlessness & Identity: What Happens When No Dad Is There to Guide His Son

What does a boy do with what he discovers when no father is there to explain it? In this raw and honest roundtable, Joshua Brown sits down with five men — Caleb, Gabriel, Antoine, Cody, and Jason — to answer a question most men have never said out loud: where were you the first time you were exposed to pornography, and who did you go to afterward? From the projects to the woods of Tennessee, from late-night HBO to a father's hidden tape — every story is different, but the wound is the same. No guide. No father. Just a secret that slowly shaped everything.

This episode traces the direct line between fatherlessness, early exposure to pornography, and the deformation of a man's identity — how boys who had no one to run to built their understanding of women, sex, and self-worth from what they found in the dark. But it doesn't stop at the wound. These men also talk about what it looks like to bring secrets into the light, how confession and community changed their marriages and their minds, and why healing starts not with becoming a better father — but with learning to be a son of the Most High first.

If you grew up without a dad to guide you, if you have carried shame in silence, or if you are trying to break a cycle for your own kids — this conversation was made for you.

In this episode:

• Why fatherless boys rarely told anyone what they found
• How early pornography exposure deforms identity, self-worth, and the way men see women
• The moment one man told his wife everything — and what she said back
• Why isolation is the enemy of healing
• What it means to kill sin before sin kills you
• How to become the dad you never had by first becoming a son of the Most High

Resources mentioned:

• James 5:16 — Confess your sins to one another and you will be healed
• Dallas Willard — The Divine Conspiracy
• Jonathan Edwards — Be killing sin or sin will be killing you
• dudeswithoutdadspodcast.com — Apply to be a guest

Connect with Dudes Without Dads: 🎙️ New episodes every Thursday 🌐 dudeswithoutdadspodcast.com 📲 Follow on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok & Facebook

Dudes Without Dads is the podcast that trains men to become the dads they never had. If this episode added value to your life, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a man who needs it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

For me, it's like three, four years old, and it's every type of form and every type of event moving forward. All I remember is being exposed to pornography, whether it was cards, whether it was every single type of magazine I've I've seen. So when you when you're in the projects or in different places, everybody's got stuff somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

I was 11 and it was HBO and it was late at night, and you know how like it's like it was like the fuzzy screen, and you're changing the channels like, what is that? This is great. And then that was, I mean, I was 11 years old. And then uh a year later, uh I lost my virginity.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

My life was just spyrolling downhill depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death by despair. One guy who showed up is just Jesus. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose. You can break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_07 0:57

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had. Hey, welcome back to the Dudes Without Dads podcast. Thank you for tuning in today. And today we're gonna be getting into a conversation that I do believe is vitally important, especially as it relates to our identity, our formation, uh, how we operate inside the world. And so I'm gonna be really blunt today. We've got our uh round table discussion. Uh, I don't know if they're hostages or or what, but we've got Caleb and Gabriel and Antoine and uh Cody with us, and then we've got a guest named Jason. And so you'll get to know their personalities a little bit as we answer this question. If you're just now getting the podcast because you saw the title had something to do with pornography, I am trying to journey a roundtable discussion on it on what it looks like to become the dad you never had. So whether or not you had a dad who abused you, neglects you, or absent, or just not intentional. Um, we're trying to say, okay, if I had no blueprint whatsoever and I had to figure out how to become the dad you never had, that's been the progression. And so week one, forgiveness, week two, the demons are coming back, uh, week three, a prayer life, and week four or month four was about the Holy Spirit. I gotta have the spirit inside of our lives and active. Today, we're getting into things that I would say have formed us and how we think and how we behave, but we've never really had a conversation like you're going to hear today, I don't think. And so let me just throw it out there, and I'm gonna ask a question, and then our listeners, I want you to think while you're listening when is where were you when you first got exposed to that which you would call pornography? So that's the question I'm asking our our guys on this roundtable discussion. Can you remember how old you were, where you were, um when you first got exposed to what you would look back now and call yeah, that that was that was pornography. And I'll let you guys just share as you guys feel led.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

I was 11 and it was HBO and it was late at night, and you know how like it's like it was like the fuzzy screen, and you're changing the channels like, what is that? This is great, and then that was I mean, I was 11 years old, and then uh a year later, uh I lost my virginity, and it was just like that became my entire identity from that point forward. Like if the audience can't see, I'm I'm five foot five with shoes on, so I'm not like I didn't have a whole lot going for me, and so like having girls around it like kind of built that identity, but it really like I as soon as you asked the question, like that moment just popped into my mind.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Five, five, but you look good though.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Like somebody asking about rims, like those 20s, no, they 10, but I keep them clean.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

It's funny you mentioned um the uh memory, and I I it's it I'm fascinated by the human brain and things we store. Uh I I have I haven't had I don't know that there's something way back in there. Uh I haven't ever thought about the first time until you just you said it. Um I was about 11 or 12 and I was in the woods in Tennessee uh with some, we were just playing, you know, I don't know, goofing off in the woods. And one of my buddies like, hey, I think there's a magazine around here somewhere. Like, like in the woods? Like what do you mean? And some dudes had had taken uh, I think uh a Playboy or a hustler or something, and uh literally just it was on the forest floor. And uh so uh that that was my I was like you, I'm like holy cow. I've it's it I've told both of my sons don't go down that road because it it's a it's a kind of intoxification. The level of of in it will intoxify you in in ways um I can't even put words on. It will make you drunk in ways that feel like the best thing that you've ever seen. Um yeah, so yeah, I was 11. 11 or 12.

SPEAKER_05 5:33

So yeah, um, I was I was about seven years old, six, seven years old, man. We're hanging out at one of my buddies' house in our complex, and he uh he just I remember like it was yesterday, it's funny that you just said that. But our brains can store, you know. I still picture my friends, man, and he said, Hey, do you guys want to you want to see my you guys want to see a movie? I'm like, what? All right, why not? You know, hold on a straight porno, dude. And it was just like as a kid, dude, you're first grade, you're just watching this, like you don't even know what to do, you know. But the strange thing was I kept staring at it, you know, it's just kept like, whoa, man, like what are they wrestling? You know, you don't know what you don't know what's going on as a kid, right? You know, and but it did something to me, man. It did, it did something to to my brain, you know, and that I didn't know. So for me, that that that's when it was very, very, very young age, man.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Yeah, I was probably I I don't remember the first time that I that I saw, but I do remember the first time I realized that something was off, and I was probably eight. I'm thinking about the day that it was at Christmas, or it's Christmas, Christmas Eve, we're at my grandmother's house, and I remember the night before having looked at stuff by myself. I'd always been, you know, my older brothers or somebody had been around and left stuff out or left something up on the computer, and I had I'd found stuff, and uh, but I had like sought it out, and I remember thinking the next day I was sitting and looking and watching my cousins play Nintendo, like the old school Nintendo, and I remember thinking to myself, I still believe I was thinking about whether Santa Claus is real or not. And I'm having like this dichotomy between so when I go, I went through years of therapy and going back and trying to revisit these things, and I remember sitting there going, dealing with like this is an adult thing, and this is a child thing, and like these are it was incompatible things happening in my brain. I just remember that realization of being like I still be able to believe in Santa Claus, and I just watch just hardcore pornography.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Wow, wow, man. Um yeah, like like Jason said, the the memories uh that that you store are crazy. I can remember all three of my kids being born. I I know the temperature of the day, I know the time of day. Very, very vivid. You know, almost to everyone who was in the room, uh, in the time that I got exposed to pornography. Um I I feel like there's maybe two instances that's that's kind of crossing my brain here. Uh one, I think I I think I found a just a box of magazines. Uh, and I don't know, I can't remember if they were Playboy or something like that, but I think it was like Playboy, and remember the Lowrider magazines? But you had the nice cars, but you had the women too. Yeah, yeah. It was like I think the lowrider was the introductory into that. And anytime I see anything like that, it just kind of really triggered that. And so yeah, I I remember finding finding a magazine, and it it must have been some type of Playboy's dirty. I felt like it's maybe, and it I just remember pages being torn, but it was enough to definitely enough to get the picture of what I was uh ingesting. And I I didn't fall into like a trap of pornography where I wanted to see it and view it all the time, but anytime it would pop up or I would get exposed to it through friends, I I would kind of know what I was looking at a little bit. I still was a little dumb and naive a little bit. Uh, and so, but it did trigger some some moments of even when I was younger. Um maybe six, maybe five, where my little cousin, uh she was a girl who would take me into the closet and wanted to kiss all on me and do all kinds of stuff to me, and not, you know, you just think you're just playing like kids, and it it did kind of trigger some of those moments coming back up. And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 9:58

Man, just you guys mentioning all that, thank y'all for being vulnerable. Thank you for sharing. These are conversations that I don't know if we ever think about because it's in the past, and sure ain't nobody asking you when's the last time or first time you ever looked at pornography. But as you guys say it, for me, it was like three, four years old, and it's every type of form and every type of event moving forward. All I remember is being exposed to pornography, whether it was cards, whether it was every single type of magazine I've I've seen so when you when you're in the projects or in different places, everybody's got stuff somewhere. And so you're seeing it. And whether you're walking down the street, I remember in Alabama, I'd walk down the road as a kid, seven, eight years old. I didn't say six, seven, like my friend did. Uh but I was seven or eight. I remember walking down, going through trash and finding dirty magazines and pulling them off, and they were wet, and you're pulling them, pulling them out. And I remember finding things in places that I can't share on a podcast. Just uh just it's I mean, I would be embarrassed to share the things that I've seen. Um, but what I what I will say is all I can remember are constant exposures, VHS to porn. And I the first time was probably three or four years old, and it wasn't just one time, it was it would be a progressive. So I've got two follow-ups to this. When you saw porn, did you go to your dad or chat with a father-like figure and share, hey, what is this? Hey, I saw this. So share with me if you can. Did you go to anybody to share what you had saw?

SPEAKER_03 11:51

You remember in Genesis where Adam goes and hides?

SPEAKER_05 11:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

Well, I just I just went to my friends because I thought it was cool and I thought I was cool. So I had one or two friends, and I'm like, guys, I figured it out what we're gonna be doing for the next 20 years. Like, I I was just so excited about it, and but no, like I didn't have that kind of comfortability to talk to any adult. It was like yeah, like I wanted to keep the secret, I wanted it to be a secret, and then I wanted it to be like it was like a cool thing because I didn't think at least kids were doing that yet. It's like I discovered something, and it was just it was the most poisonous thing that I could have done. But I when you asked that question, I couldn't imagine what it would have been like to have an adult male role model that I would have gone to and have them pour into me in that moment and help me understand what was happening. That would have been, I mean, I I that would have changed the trajectory of my entire life from that point forward.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Yeah, for sure. I've never actually thought about that how I how much I hid that and how much I like didn't go to my parents. Right. That actually had, you know, we've talked about a couple of times. I my dad was very involved and was, I mean, as much as he was a blue-collar dad and he worked 70 hours a week, but he was he was when he was there, he was involved. And uh I do remember though probably being about 18, 17, 18, and talking to my dad about it. And at that point, him saying, Yeah, you know, I've just never I've never had that as a problem for me. I have no idea what it's like. You should, you know, talk to some guys that maybe do know what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

So I didn't I didn't go to my dad um because my dad had uh his own stash of magazines, and I found that out later. Um I'm like you, you know, Curse. I I I went to my friends like, have you seen, hey, like do you do you gotta see this? Like, I mean, and it wasn't like it wasn't like creepy, it was like this, this, this is out, this is the thing. Like wait, women can, are you kidding? And and it I it was so um literally mind blowing. And it's fascinating what the devil does because um I've made it a point with my boys to say, listen, uh, I think one of the biggest mistakes the Christian community makes is we um we have fallen into this demonic trap of uh no, no, no, run, run, run. Anything related to women's bodies, you know, we are like, and and no, you're supposed to be magnetically like I am I've been married over 30 years, and my wife is still like, is this all you think about? I'm like, I other than steak, yeah, maybe in in curve season and deer season, we know, depending on which hunting season's coming. But yeah, pretty much food, wind's hunting season, and and you know, naked, yeah, sure. And and and I think that what I've talked to my boys about is like if you did not, my youngest son's 15, and he said about six months ago, he's like, Dad, I'm having these thoughts, you know, and we're driving down the road and we have a lot of uh uh truck in the truck discipleship, literally. That's I do a lot of that with my boys on purpose and driving down the road. And he said, I know it's gonna get better when I get married. It's gonna get worse, it's gonna get worse because it's never gonna end. He's like, Are you just like son? It's never gonna end. But I I'm trying to show him the glory of God in that um and and why that is. But my dad, my dad was a phenomenal father. Um, didn't know Jesus. Uh my family didn't know Jesus, but my dad had a stack of hustlers and I knew where they were. And then he uh back in this dates me, but he had a beta tape, not VHS boys. Beta was the iPhone of the time, and uh it was way better quality. It's fascinating. I cannot tell you than when I found that tape and put it in the VCR, and I like you, when you saw one of y'all mentioned, like you were like, whoa, you know, what's going on? When I watched that movie, I probably watched that one VHS tape. I found it in middle school. He didn't know that I had ever found it. I would always rewind it back to where he started and or wherever he was in that tape. I would go back to that minute marker. Um, so he wouldn't know. And um I I would say hundreds and hundreds of times I watched that one video. I I haven't seen that video in over 40 years, and I can still almost tell you scene by scene, um, the women, what they look like, and all of it. It it it sears it. James Dobson said this one time. He's in heaven now. He was in Focus on the Family Major. If you don't know him, he was one of the OGs of Family, and he said, research on the human brain is that pornography is like a brand to a cat to cattle. It literally seers it in places in your brain that you can't get it out. PhD researcher had done neurological research on that, and I believe it because even on this call, um, we all are going, wow, the vivid memory of the first time you ever saw it, it's it's fascinating.

unknown 17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah, I've had a lot of I've had a lot of drugs in my system, and none of them have been that potent.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I I remember, um, of course, when you grew up in the hood, everything's accessible from drugs to guns. Uh, but that that had Josh, you know what I mean. Uh Gabe, you probably know what I mean too. Uh, but when it comes to uh exposure to pornography and sex and things like that, it wasn't a full prominent thing where I was um you know governed at and where I lived at for the exposure to the magazine. And then remember when cable TV, inside of cable TV, it was pay-per-view, so you had to pay to watch these adult contents. But if you got lucky, you could find a static channel that accidentally slipped through and it was enough to satisfy the little evil soul. And I remember, like, while you guys are talking, it's jogging memories back, actually. I I feel a little uh a little disgusted and a little dirty by it. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, I remember that. Uh just just trying to find like a channel to like, can I see something? And uh definitely feel how how you guys feel it feel like you're in the Garden of Eden, you won't tell anybody that so it's like your own little world. That's probably to be honest, the first kept secret. I remember saying to myself, or like making sure nobody else caught me doing it, not even on why I was keeping it a secret. Not even sure why I wanted to hide it. It was just you kind of knew kind of innately that I don't think I'm supposed to be watching this, but you know, you know, it's it's it's here and um it's it's it's it's my own little little thing, man. And so I I definitely remember the the side effects and the the hunger or thirst for wanting to find different ways to to get a hold of it.

SPEAKER_05 19:39

Yeah, yeah. Uh me personally, man, I I I wish there was parental involvement, man. There was none, there was no supervision, you know. It seemed like I live in a low-income apartment complex, you know. It's funny the things we could afford, right? You can afford those tapes and you can afford all this crazy stuff, but you can't afford to get your family out the hood, man. Whatever, that's a whole different subject, right? But um yeah, I think for us, we just kind of it was our thing, kind of like Cody said and stuff. It just became like, man, somebody uh next thing you know, somebody brought their their dad stuff, and it just became our thing, man, growing up. And I I wish I could I could tell you guys that it was just the season, but as you guys know, man, it's just something that shaped the way I viewed women, you know, shaped the way I I just oh okay, there they're gonna be objects, and I gotta I can't wait till I start doing what I'm watching to certain people, you know. So I think no parents at all, man. I can't recall an adult saying, What the heck are you doing, you little perverts? You know, nobody, man. It was a we were there. We had hours, you know, until somebody finally got hungry. All right, let's go, that's enough for today.

SPEAKER_07 20:58

So it's crazy to just process the effects and the memories. And if we don't take time to think about or to even process out loud, I don't believe we get healed miraculously without I know sometimes we do, but a lot of healing comes by talking out loud and saying out loud things that we've experienced in the past. So for our listeners that are processing, and that someone shared this with you, or you're listening to it, and you're like, What does this have to do? What should I where should I go? I want to start with this Imago Day conversation. If you're listening, the Bible makes it kind of clear that when God originally created man in his own image, he made them male and female, he created them in the image of God. What we have experienced in this life is a deformation of the image of God. And so, whether it be by genetics, nature, nurture, we have experienced things that have deformed. Our brains and the way that we think and the way that we behave. So the question I just want to ask our guys, and you've most of you have already hit on it, but I want anyone that's listening to be clear. The reason we're covering this is you have to recognize that there's things that you believe that determines how you behave. And those beliefs can actually be based on lies from the past. And in order to get through certain things, you've got to replace your lies with truth. So let's start with guys. Can you kind of concisely say how the deformation of seeing pornography and exposing yourself to it over and over again? Can you identify how it wrongly shaped the way that you viewed women, sex, pleasure, identity of who you were or who other people were? Would anybody like to try to answer the question that I'm attempting to say? I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story. And if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you, I want you to stop and hit subscribe. I am on mission to help men become the dads they never had. Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions, identity issues. And really what we need is we need a model. We need to see people that have broken the patterns and come alongside of them. I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey. Every Thursday, we're going to release a new episode. Each episode is going to help you and others become the dads they never had. Hit subscribe and share with a friend. Now let's get back to the story.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

That's a that's a conversation I've had with my wife at different levels a couple of different times in our marriage. And you'll you guys will probably get that too. I mean, I um at one point I had the open kimono moment with my wife where I said, Hey, here's everything. And I started just going through it. And I said, When you want me to stop, you tell me to stop, and we'll I'll and so we had the open kimono moment about two years into our marriage. But I remember driving home from work that day, not even intending to say anything to her, driving home from work that day, and right as I pull into the apartment complex where we were staying uh in Louisville, I I this phrase in my head played, and it said, My marriage be damned, I have to be right with God. Like if she leaves me, she leaves me. I have to get this out. It was like it was like you were gonna, you know, you how you are when you're gonna throw up, like you you can't keep it down. It's like it had to come out. Um, but I let her into the most inner of inner circles. I had another group of guys that I let into a little bit deeper of a circle. But one of those, as I started to go through the process of doing that and talking out loud about it, that process was seven, eight, nine years and still ongoing of discovering just how affected I am by it, even in my day-to-day relationships now. Um now, when I when I say that I have relative sobriety, I I I go, okay, I've I've been a sex addict and I have a relative, I have relative sobriety. I've been through years of therapy, and I still to this day am starting to go, dang, the way that I've just interacted is probably formed by this thing. And I'm I'm discovering that it is it's constant. Yeah, you know, it we look at these things like we're on a spectrum, and you can put guys on a pedestal that seem like they've got it all together and go, okay, well, that guy's listen, it is it's all right still there. When you're measuring people against uh each other, it's like, oh, he's he's over here and I'm over here. It's like, no, we're all kind of right here, you know, we're all just meshed up in this area, and then the holiness of God is in that's the that's the distance we're measuring against to call somebody holy is totally missing them, totally missing the mark for the definition.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Um but one of the I'm curious, how did your wife, if you don't have you can only go into this as deep as you want to? Yeah, that's a fascinating thing that you talked about because I I know a lot of men that would never have that conversation because they're absolutely panicked about how their wife might respond, because um research indicates this is something that men, and when it's one of the many millions of ways we differ. Uh, when a guy sees a woman, let's say on a billboard with a Harley, and she's you know, she's scantily clad, or when, or, or even even more relatable, uh a woman turns a guy's head. Okay, it's usually in the brain out, and he's moving on to whatever's for lunch, most of the time. Um it wasn't personal for him, it just he saw it, moved on. Wow, holy cow! Okay, pretty cool. She turned my head. But if the woman sees that, her interpretation of that takes her into the abyss that she's not enough and and he's demonic. Why would he do that? He's an addict, and none of that might even be true at all. From the moment he saw it to the moment he moved on, might be a few seconds. And for her, the wound is so deep. And I think guys know that, and they don't share that with their wife because I don't know of a better way for handling. In most cases, not all for sure. In most cases, most women can't handle it. It's so personal, they take it personally when it wasn't. Um, and um, it's personal, yes. I I don't want to I want to back up and say, of course it's personal, it's just personal in a way that that it it's different for him than it is for her. And I'm just curious how how your wife, if you don't mind, did how did that go even on the surface?

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Um got two things. One is you everybody that's in this situation lives in the illusion that they will get away with it, that it's gonna continually be hidden. I'll go, I'll take it to my grave, nobody will ever find it. It's an illusion.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

It will come out, yeah, it will be found out better on your terms than on other terms. Totally. Um, you don't want to get to the end of your life and face your creator having hidden all those things because now what you've built is the muscle memory for hiding, right? So you've built in yourself the muscle memory for hiding. What you need to rewire yourself is the muscle memory for coming clean. Yes, and and and I cannot describe that feeling. I've got I've got another story with this, but my my um my my wife's reaction was um she was hurt, she was very hurt. She cried, um, but even in the same night, I think it was the it was the Holy Spirit that helped her to get her head around it, even in the same night, her her term to me was really maybe the only thing she said that night was it's not me against you, it's me and you against whatever this is. And that reframed our entire marriage. And every piece of advice I've ever given to any marriage, whenever they start going, but he, but she, but this, but that. I'm like, you guys are on the same side of the table, and you know, you're fighting whatever is on that side. Yeah, you're and we always try to put ourselves against each other. But I had I can't describe the feeling of a clear head because a lot of us have never operated with a clear head, clear conscience. Um, but I remember sitting in church, I was uh at life church listening to Craig Rochelle. I had my cell phone sitting on my pocket, and this is several years removed from what I would call sex addiction, and I was I still struggled with it. Things still happened in my brain. I was still having interactions in the world that were not good, but I was constantly in this battle with it, and I was repentant. And uh, so I called it sobriety. I had my cell phone on my pocket, and my wife reached over for my phone, and she was gonna use my phone for the calculator or something. And if you I don't know if you guys have experienced this, anybody listening, but she grabbed my phone and my heart leapt like it used to whenever I had stuff to hide, right? So, my I mean, it was in my throat, heart rate through the roof like I was running a marathon. And she grabbed it and looked at it, and I kind of jumped, and she she saw me kind of jump at it. And and she goes, You all right? And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'm good. Like, take the phone. What's funny is I felt like I I had been removed from that feeling of having stuff to hide, and I felt like the Lord gave that to me at that point. Was like, remember what that was like? Remember how terrible that was? That's so good. Don't don't don't get back into trading this again. And I, you know, I don't remember where I was in my journey. I may have been really struggling with something at the time, but I remember that feeling again.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

Pastor Chris Hodges, I was at a uh conference with them when we were planting the church, and he said, You're only as sick as your secrets. That's good, and then he quoted David, quoted the Psalms. When I kept silent, my bones wasted away. James, James 5, 16. Confess your sins to one another, pray for another one another, you'll be healed. It's like, I mean, this is like the central thing inside of unity relationships. You can go church level organizationally, but it starts like uh it was uh GK Chesterton, another dead guy for you. Uh, they they they wrote GK Chesterton and and asked him, Hey, can you write us an article? We want to hear what is wrong with the world. And he wrote them back and said, I am sincerely GK Chesterton. It's like I I gotta start there. And if I'm not willing to have that vulnerability and I'm not willing to have that transparency, I'm gonna constantly live with this burden. And it's like that moment that it opens up, that it comes off my chest, off my shoulders, it's like this is the this is what Christ promised. Is uh Dallas Willard says it do what Jesus says and find his words to be true. That's it. It's not Christianity, our faith is not ideological, it's not like it's philosophical. It's like, no, it's this is the most practical thing on the planet. It's true, it's either true or it's not. And so as you apply these things, you find the fullness of life that he promised. It's like this is what he promised. So try what he said, and as we do it, man, there's just this openness and this freedom. But I got I got trapped in this cycle. So I lost my virginity early, and then watching porn, girls were just my whole identity. And then I started taking pride in something. I think the last time to this day that I think I'm 35, that I watched porn, I still remember the night where I was like, I'm done. And I turned it off. I put my laptop, we had laptops at that point, and I put it away. And so what happened is for like the next, I don't know, five, six years, I took pride in the fact that I was like, Oh, I don't watch porn. Like, yeah, but you're on Instagram, like stopping all the time. Your memory is I always said I had a bad memory, but for some reason, there my memory was fantastic. And so it was like I took pride, so it was like it wasn't just about the act of porn, it's the heart behind what we're doing, and that's what that openness and that vulnerability, it's what Jesus is trying to get in and heal. He's like, I'm not just gonna heal the action. It's a if your righteousness does not surpass that of the scribes and the Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. It's not just about did I do that thing or did I not do that thing? It's like, no, I'm gonna get in there and heal it with what Cody's talking about. It's like those moments are it's like I'm trying to grow a good tree. That's the healing that Christ is trying to give us in it. But if we hide it, it's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Amen. Prince, yep. One of the first things that I say going through sex addiction recovery with people is isolation is the enemy. And everything in you is gonna tell you to hide. And you cannot do it if you hope to survive. You cannot hide this away.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Well, think about think about surgery. Surgery is always done in the light, it's never done in the dark, right? Yeah, you want somebody doing surgery in the dark on you? I don't. And I think the biggest, the biggest lie from the enemy is oh, you got if if he if you keep it in, I've said this myself a lot. If if you keep it in the dark, he he can speak to it. He can constantly speak to it. But if you bring it to the light, that's where freedom comes every time. It's the big lie. And I think that is the first step with anybody is that's why you you mentioned cards like confess your sins to one another. There's a reason that the word of God tells us that. Yeah, because once you do, uh, you have crossed a barrier now, and it's out in the open. And now the relief that comes from that on anything, whether it's financial or whatever. I saw a guy one time have total financial ruin, and I went to his house and was crying. And he said, Man, I think the yesterday he all came crashing down. His wife found out all the financial issues. He said, The devil just got me. I said, No, brother, no, no, the Lord got you yesterday because now she knows. And and but your illustration of whatever you said about it's us, it's us against whatever it is. That is the beauty of the the walk in Jesus. That what a way for took for you guys to frame that. There's there's that's powerful, that's a powerful potency. Um, it's not me against you, honey. It's it's us together against whatever the enemy's doing right here.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

What a woman. She's a good woman. I talk to my daughters all the time about the difference between you know saying she's hot or this or that, and she's a good woman. I'm like, what you want is a good woman. And we can we can elaborate on what that what that woman is.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

What was the David quote again, uh, Curtis? Sorry. When I kept silent, my bones wasted away. So good.

SPEAKER_07 36:45

We're gonna have to start blocking three to four hours on these type of days because we could go so far. Like I wanted to even hit not only the images, but the sound. And when I say sounds, we're gonna get weird. I don't mean it like that, I mean it like this. Um, do y'all remember the song Back to the Hotel?

SPEAKER_03 37:05

No, I don't listen to that crap.

SPEAKER_07 37:07

Oh my goodness, man. Y'all need to check out some back to the hotel. Not very long, not very long.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

That's the gangster music, bro. That's the thug music, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:18

And then uh Big Pond over there, he ended up uh telling me about was it Ja Rule?

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Who did you tell me that was it was it was Biggie Small's Jaw Rule. It was uh a group of guys, but that was like one of my go-to songs. That song was horrible.

SPEAKER_07 37:34

What was the name of the song that you said?

SPEAKER_04 37:35

I don't I don't want to say it because then people are gonna go listen to it.

SPEAKER_07 37:40

You said it, I listened to it, and it it made it was like that's not like it make you cringe.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

It's one of those things where it's like you like you're driving down the road and you're rapping to something, but then it's like you don't even realize what you're saying until you try to play it and your mom's in the car, and you're like, What did he say? Like, you don't even realize it.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

It's just you're desensitized to the realities of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:03

Yeah, and so but I do want to pull a point out here, baby got back, it makes a lot, yeah. Baby got back. Um, let's you know, salt and pepper, let's think fruit, like think about our formation. That's the language I'm using. It's not just the images of our culture, it's also the music of our culture, which are called influences. So when we're trying to process this thing on how to be rightfully re-imaged or how to move into the image of God, it's not necessarily about, hey, do all these things, you'll become perfect, it's recognizing how the cultures and the idols of this world have influenced how we think and how we behave. And our goal, and remember, Jesus didn't come to condemn the world but to save it. And so the question I want to ask you if I'm looking at porn and I'm masturbating, am I going to and I I'd love Jesus, but I have this thing that I'm doing in the dark that's in secret. What are you going to tell me? Am I going? I'm asking for the dude that's listening. He's just said, you know what, I'm just giving over to it. My wife hasn't, or I don't have. And he's like, I'm looking at porn, I'm masturbating. I think it's okay. Am I going to heaven? Going to hell? What say you?

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Yes, maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, there's a there's a there's a death that has to happen before you are reborn. So that likes to me. I mean, that you're not this is not a this is not a something you unravel in your own head in order to make things right. This is a this is a thing you murder and it dies in order to be reborn a new way. Now that that reborn, that renewing of your mind, it's building a new mind from scratch, it's a long, difficult process. Are you in the pre-death stage where you haven't killed it yet? Are you holding on to it as if it is an idol to you? Then potentially, yes, you are destined to a life without God. And you know, there's all these phrases that talk about like um like am I going to hell? Yeah, you're gonna you're choosing hell. You're continuing to choose hell by not killing that thing. You're saying this is more important to me than being in the presence of God or knowing the creator. Yeah. So I I think if you're if you're in the pre-death stage and you haven't killed it and you're holding it as your most central thing, then yeah, you're potentially destined to hell.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Well, and even the way we're thinking about heaven and hell, it's like Jesus' gospel was what? Repent, change your mind. You now have access to change your mind because the kingdom of heaven has come near. The rule and the reign of the actual king is now here. You now have full eyes. So it's not just like, do I go to hell or heaven later? It's like also, what am I choosing to live in right now? Am I choosing to live in a version of hell right now? Am I choosing to be a man that would I be a man? I this is a question I keep asking myself now. Would I be fit to live inside the walls of that kingdom? Like, I'm in training to be a man that would fit. Would I even like it there? Like, if there is an actual kingdom where there are people that don't lie, and there are people that are kind and that are generous and that are humble and that are full of joy and that are loving and that are hardworking and they're self-controlled, and they're would I fit or would I stick out like a sore thumb? It's like this is this what this was the invitation. Like you now have access now, and then to spread that around. So it's not just heaven or hell later, it's like what are you choosing right now? And you get to experience the fullness of life on this side and train yourself to be a man that actually fits.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

You remember when we did the Lord's Prayer and we talked about pray to your father like this, and somebody had said, like, what's that like? Like, deal with him like your heavenly father. And you're like, I don't have a dad, so how do I supposed to where's my formation even start? It kind of feels uh similar to that, where it's like, where do I even begin that process of doing it? Because if you've never experienced what it's like to have a a clear conscience and a life on the other side of having that death happen, um, then you don't know. And you may go, yeah, I may not like it there. Well I think you're uh I think people cuddle with that idea and just go, this is just the hell that I'm gonna now accept. They're kind of cozied up to the hell they're living in.

SPEAKER_07 43:10

Do you have an incredible story of overcoming the home that you were raised in, or maybe the father wounds that were placed inside your life? If so, I want to share it with other dudes without dads. Simply go to dudeswithout dadspodcast.com and apply to be a guest on the show. The reason it's important to share your story is because when you share what God has done for you, it helps other men believe that God can do it for them, and he can. To share your story, head over to Dudes Without Dads Podcast today.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

I think we all gotta ask ourselves, for the especially for the listeners, why do you why did we come to Jesus first? Right? Why did he call us? Well, well, there was a there was a need. In our lives. We understood our state, right? Like, man, we're we're we're we're wretched, man. We we need well, we need salvation. Jesus is the way out. And I believe that it's um it's a sanctification process, man, that happens, you know, when you come to the Lord. I wish I could tell you, man, when I was in that prison cell, that it all went away. That everything just, man, dude, all of a sudden, gave us a holy roller and he just has it together. Bro, it was a process. When I got released from prison, it was a process, you know. But the thing was, God loved me so much, He would bring to light certain things. And that's where I think where my brothers are saying, like, I was either gonna respond or reject, you know? And even with pornography, man, if it's a struggle, if it's addiction, whatever people call it nowadays, man, like when God brings it to the light, it's be it's not to shame you, it's because he loves you and he knows it's something that's keeping you in bondage, right? So um it's funny because a lot of the men like at men groups, this is a conversation, you know, like, well, I mean, how long could I look at a woman or before it becomes a sin? And uh somebody said something like, two seconds, man, you got that two-second rule, whatever. And I'm like, bro, you know what I can do in two seconds? You can't look, you know what I mean? But that's what I'm saying. I don't think there's actually uh a certain like measuring stick, right? Uh I think like the Lord knows every single one that is his and every single struggle that every single man has. But I think it starts with that, it's a heart issue. Like, Lord, like this is a struggle. This is a struggle that's and and I need you just the way you delivered me from violence, the way you delivered me from alcohol, the way you delivered me from all these areas, Lord. I believe that you're able to deliver me from this, you know, which is pornography, and and he is, man, he's faithful, and and I love what my brother said. It's not like it's gonna go away because all of us can testify right now, man. Just because I haven't watched, man, dude. I got out in August 4th, 2004, you know. I and it's just the Lord has kept me, right? And and the thing is though, doesn't mean that if I don't see a certain billboard, a certain image, a certain picture, man, that thought, that memory, all of a sudden I go back to that little five-year-old kid, man, five, six-year-old kid like that. So certain images trigger certain thoughts, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, but it's the process of being saved. It that's the idea. It's that your question was, am I gonna go to hell? I read a lot of Willard too, read a whole lot of Willard. Yeah, uh, and and um, but I one of the things that I think your question was, am I gonna go to hell? Well, let's take let's take uh porn off the table. Okay, I know a lot of guys I haven't uh I I got out of that addiction in high school. But to your point, Gabriel, it's so funny you said that. Like I've often joked around, like I don't, I don't need to watch porn. I've got a brain. Like I I don't I don't need to even take the time to go to a phone, man. I mean, there's been times in the grocery store I have felt like, you know, I should walk up to her and say, you don't know me. I just want you to know I'm sorry. Uh, and just walk away. Like, you know, it's like because in about three seconds where I went from nice dress to whatever, uh, like I'm like, whoa, what just happened to me? Like, that's one thing I think women don't understand. I can be having the best day. And in 0.42 seconds, I am in the gutter. And and and I'm married happily. I've had sex with one woman in my life, and that's my wife. And and it, and it doesn't, it, it doesn't, but it that's not the issue. The issue is I think the issue is there's a time when I got saved. For me, it was September 2nd, 1990. That's when I got saved. There's a day I'll be saved when I go to heaven forever. And but then I call it the middle ground. And in the middle ground, brother, we ain't home yet. Um, and and so you know, for me, I have to realize I am living in hostile territory every single day. I'm living in enemy occupied territory. And sometimes the enemy, what so for a lot of guys, they may not struggle with porn, um, which I don't. I I but I do I struggle with with lust. Oh how much time you got? Uh or there's I got a friend right now who he doesn't struggle with porn. He's absolutely a great man of God, but his anger, uh, his levels of anger to the world and the way he treats people is just as demonic as any guy looking at his phone. Um, you know, and so the the reality is it's not to justify any of it, it's just to realize we're not home yet. And and and to know that we're not home yet, the the appetite, the thing I find the Lord, I'm asking the Lord all the time, is give me an appetite for the holy. Give me an appetite, because that's what porn is. Porn's an appetite. Porn in in general, porn is is just like any other sin. It is it sin always overpromises and underdelivers, right? And and so it's it's one of those things that I've had to realize that when I go to that place of anger or lust for more, whether it's money, it it it it's all the enemy doesn't care what the carrot is for you, he just wants the bondage. That's all he wants. He doesn't care how he gets it. For some guys, they don't struggle with porn at all. It is power and control, it is a title in front of their name, it's all these different issues. And and I think once we understand that, then you can start saying, Oh, I want the kingdom to come in me. And and I'll tell you how how I did that for anybody listening. Um, I I believe in the Christian community, we are going, we I have a deep burden for the fact that we do not know how to celebrate well, or we do not know how to celebrate what God made. And I've tried to teach my two boys, you should be admiring women, you should go, yes, holy cow. That is the best to admire her for what God made without lusting for her, to admire, to admire the the beauty of sex. That's the thing, right? We don't we don't celebrate. How many sermons have you heard about lust and running and temptation? Bad, bad, bad. Contrast that with how many times you've ever heard a sermon on today, we're gonna talk about how awesome sex is. Yeah. We don't do it, and so then all of a sudden, we wonder why our sons or and our daughters, why they are in this deep, depraved secret world, because we never showed them the beauty of it. And and I really want to, I think we're gonna have to recapture what is what is redemption, what is the new heaven and the new earth? It is God reclaiming everything that sin broke, right? Well, part of life, kingdom. What did Jesus pray? I think about this all the time. Jesus did, he prayed that your will would be done and your kingdom would come on earth as it is in heaven. And I think we can recapture that if we start celebrating the glory instead of the lie. And and how that's hard to do, but but I do I do know that it can be done. Freedom can be done, even in depravity.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

And I would I would even back that up too, um, to tell every young man that's listening to this, including my my sons, is um when you accept the father, when you say that he is your father, um, there's never a place and never a time that you're not gonna be accepted into the father's house. It's not a um, I don't believe it's a moment um that, or or the question if you're gonna go to hell. Um if you believe that he's the father, uh he is your father, um, you have entered into that, but it doesn't mean, and I'm saying this as a father too, as well. Is my so if my son do wrong against me, is he is he not still welcome to my home? Yes, he's welcome to my home. Because this is the best place for him. Will will it ever end? No, Jesus says, You will always have these problems, but take heart, for I have even overcome them. But that's just one sin out of a thousand. That's that's like the enemy. And the enemy is a master engineer, he can engineer anything and reverse engineer anything that God has put into place. And so, because of that, just just knowing how he can take this one sin and say, Oh, that's just one of a thousand that you have. Oh, yeah, you overcome that, you get more freedom in that. Okay, well, what about this? What about that? What about that? And knowing that we're always gonna be dealing with this, knowing that we're always gonna be overcoming, not that we just overcome, but we're gonna be overcoming, knowing that, hey, we have freedom in this this year, but what about next year? What about tomorrow? Uh, even just the little 39 years of life that I've had, I I feel like I've had freedom from pornography uh before. And then one screw one thumb swipe. I'm back in the ballgame a little bit, and it's that repentance and knowing where to go to, uh, knowing uh podcasts and these these roundtables, what to watch, knowing what scriptures to hold on to, I think keeps you in the father's house where you're safe. Uh, not from just the world, but you're safe to run to him with these problems. Uh, that's why I want for my son, I think that's what we probably all wanted at a time where we ran and hid, and our father, our physical father, couldn't come find us. That's one thing I'm starting to think about even more in the in the garden that God had to go, where are y'all? Why'd y'all why are you even hiding from me, even though I have full access, and I don't want to ever be not caught walking in the cool of the day with my father, knowing what I know now. And that's I think that's the beauty. I think that's the beauty of being able to go through these things, or whether it's lust, pornography, greed, um, uh gluttony, which is one of my things. It feels, yeah, y'all need to understand how powerful this is. Greed, gluttony, and pornography are like like cousins. I mean, when one slips, they all come to the party. I don't know about y'all, but anytime I start overeating, I'm more wide open to the whole gang. And I'm like, what is this threefold thing that keeps overtaking me? Yeah, and now I have to watch what I put in my mouth, I have to watch what goes in my eyes, I have to watch what goes in my ears because they come. I believe there's uh Jesus said this you can over uh this type of demon, you have to you can overcome it by prayer and fasting. But it also mentions, I'm not sure, in the same verse where hey, when you cast out one demon, seven more is coming back with them. It's like, wait a second, the whole party who's losing out the memo. And so even when it comes to this this topic, it's I don't think it's never a question uh uh of if I'm gonna go to hell or heaven. Because at any moment we can be living, we can have a good day and we can have a bad day. I mean, we can feel entrapped, and and I think that's the work of the enemy is is to say, hey, well, you're you you've been saved. Hey, you went down to the altar four times, but you're still dealing with this. It's not even working. Like, what is this Christianity thing? The ability to know that you have a father to run to. When when you're making the wrong decision, when you don't know the right decision, uh when you're hiding, I can always find my kids. And my house, I can always find them. I know where every room is. And that's that's the beauty that when you get invited, when you accept you know Jesus into your heart and you get accepted into the house, there's no place you can run, there's no place you can hide. That the father is continually, always running after you, no matter what. Ask David, ask Solomon.

SPEAKER_04 56:35

The scripture that came to mind when you were talking, we were talking about overeating. This is so good. I this smacked me in the face. I just I had never realized the scripture said this before. One of the prophets, maybe it was it was in Hosea, he said, the sin of your sister Sodom is this, and I'm like, Okay, obviously, the sin of Sodom was the fact that there was rape and murder and all, like, obviously, that's the problem, right? He said, The sin of your sister Sodom is this you were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned. You got fat happy and forgot me. The exact thing I told you, but it is, you're right. It's like a proverb says, like like a city whose walls are broken through is a man who lacks self-control.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Builds in you the muscle memory for giving in.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

That's it, it's a well-kept life, like Willard said. It is a well-kept life that we need to be able to live constantly in that. Yeah, Antoine, that was good, man.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

No, I owning a media company. Uh I see edits and cameras. I bought more cameras yesterday for our podcast department, and you're we underestimate the engine God created. I can create my own movie the way I want it to happen. And there's 1800 different versions of that.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

But you know what? That's a beautiful thought, Antoine, because here's the I own a media company too. And there's something I've been dwelling on the last year. The Bible, Paul said in Ephesians that God can do more than you could ask or imagine, right? We have an imagination. That's if we're in the Imago Day, we we are gifted with an imagination, which means if I'm in Jesus now, I have a sanctified imagination. I I have the ability to have the anointing on my imagination. And I, but I have to pray for that. And I think you're exactly right. I can edit the movie the way I want. But the thing that I have to constantly tell myself, I've been thinking about this a lot with a with another set of issues I'm dealing with in the professional world, about somebody that my heart, my heart is wanting. I am in a, I mean, it is Tyson versus Holyfield right now, with the way I want to feel about this guy that I know the enemy's speaking to. And I told my wife the other day, the hardest thing I'm struggling with right now with him is fact versus fiction. Like what is real, what is actually real? And I find myself asking the Lord all the time, please, God, let me only let be birthed in my mind thoughts that are fact, kingdom-based facts versus the anger that I want to have that may or may not even be anywhere justified. And I think it's true with women or anything else. We have the let us never forget, we have the potential for sanctified imagination. Yes, we really do.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

Uh that scripture, the one that I kind of tattooed in my heart that connects to that is be transformed by the renewing of your mind daily. Like get a new one, like new computer every day. Just send me a new uh, you know, you know, those those those phones that you get the burners, like you need a burner every day. And uh that's why I would definitely tell young men out there, and that's why you want to hold on to the scriptures. What your father has has put before us is to be transformed by the renewing of your mind, but also connect to that. Say life and death is in the power of the tongue. Also, a man, uh, as a man thinketh, no matter what he's thinking about, that's what you will become. So it's in his heart, and so that renewing, saying, speaking over things like I thank you for bringing that up. I remember, I remember saying no, I think I said a cuss word actually. I was I was so mad, I cussed at my I'm like, no, this is not happening. Like, no, this is I will have control over this, and you might sound a little crazy, you might, but you got to talk to yourself because you got to know understand the value, the price that God has paid on you, how valuable your life is, and how I think all these men on this channel right now is not gonna let that happen. That's why we're creating and spending this time. Thank you, Josh, for being able to have reach, have impacts uh to help other men overcome a little bit easier. You will go through it, period. You will go through it, but you can hold on to God's words and and even the life experience of our testimony to as well.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:17

We have reached the place where we need to, you know, hit the pause button and whether or not we come back on this subject. Um, the name of the podcast is Dudes Without Dads, and the kind of the subtitle is Become the Dad You Never Had. And so the question is, you know, if our if our sons are looking to us for identity or to reveal what it means to be a godly man, husband, and father, if our daughters are looking at us to see what it looks like to be a godly man, husband, and father, the heart posture is not whether or not we go to heaven or hell, which is what all of us has shared, but it's Jonathan Edwards, you know, Puritan pastor, it curse, I believe he's dead. Um, he said, Be killing sin before sin be killing you. And there is a lot of truth to process that I am constantly either saying yes to the kingdom of God or yes to the kingdom of darkness. I have a father who loves me and has adopted me into his kingdom. And the posture in which we sit today is a is not heaven or hell as much as sonship. So if anything that we want to pursue, in order to be the dad we never had, we have to first learn to be the son of the most high. And so let me encourage our listeners. If you're trying to process and you you hate your sin, my encouragement is you bring it to the Father, bring it to a community, bring it into the light. There's no shame inside the kingdom of God. Jesus didn't come and throw rocks at those who are sinners, it was he condemned those that proclaim to be righteous. And so, really, those that say, Hey, I'm good, I don't need, you know, the need to need you, Jesus, those were the ones that he called hypocrisy or hypocrites. And so, as we put a bow on the show, I want to thank you guys for sharing your stories. For those that are listening, process your so your story and be thinking about this question. How can you step, if you got kids, how can you step into their lives and try to protect, try to provide, and try to guide them um to your heavenly father. Any final words before I end up clicking the the end report button?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:41

Gabriel wins for the best line ever so far on the show. Like, you know what I can do in two seconds? That's that was the funniest thing I think I've ever heard in my life. So go to some places in two seconds. Yeah, yeah, that was hilarious. But no, thank you for all this, Josh, setting this up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

No, thank you guys. Um, I told my wife to pull my son into the room so he can hear this conversation. It's actually a prayer because I was like, God, how am I gonna talk to this boy about and just for creating a platform, creating a way for him to not only just hear from me but other men at the same time? Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

Forgiveness is more for you than them.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:24

I had inner peace for the first time in my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

It's just Jesus, just Jesus.