Self Careapist Therapist Podcast

ACT Then and Now: Why the Originator Turned a Framework Into an Invitation with Dr. Steven C. Hayes

Lorain Moorehead Season 2 Episode 9

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0:00 | 1:04:05

What does it actually mean to practice ACT — and how would you know if you already are? Dr. Steven C. Hayes, the originator of acceptance and commitment therapy, joins the podcast to talk about the 45-year arc of ACT's development, where the field of psychotherapy has gone wrong, and what it would mean to truly serve the person sitting in front of you. This conversation covers the six core processes of psychological flexibility, why randomized controlled trials may be misleading your clinical work, and why Dr. Hayes thinks every therapist should start by trying ACT on themselves. If you have been ACT-curious, or if you have been using elements of it without naming it, this episode gives you the bones.

Episode Timestamps

0:00 — Introduction

1:27 — What ACT is, and why it may already be in your practice

2:41 — ACT in a single sentence: open, aware, and actively engaged

4:48 — The origin story: personal suffering, panic disorder, and the limits of existing evidence-based therapy

8:08 — Did ACT precede DBT? Dr. Hayes on Marsha Linehan and the shared roots of third-wave approaches

10:35 — Process-based therapy: why the technique matters less than the mechanism

13:29 — What to do instead of drawing a fence around your modality

21:27 — The six core processes of psychological flexibility, explained one by one

29:32 — Reaching more people: how ACT is being used in lower- and middle-income countries

33:28 — Why your journal articles may be statistically misleading you (the ergodic theorem)

38:30 — Idiographic measurement: tracking the individual, not the aggregate

43:00 — PsychFlex and the Personalized Life Assessment Network: tools you can use now

48:51 — The eugenics roots of standard statistical methods in psychology

52:29 — The neurodiversity movement and what it gets right

56:00 — Outcome measurement that fits the actual person

1:01:35 — Where ACT is going: empowering clinicians from the bottom up

Episode Highlights

  • ACT is not a set of techniques. It is a model built around processes of change — the small, repeatable behaviors that lift people up or push them down. A new randomized trial is published on ACT every two days.
  • Psychological flexibility — learning to be more open, aware, and actively engaged in meaningful life — is the core target of ACT. Dr. Hayes argues it is also the mediating mechanism behind DBT, MBCT, and most other third-wave approaches.
  • The six core processes of ACT are organized around three pairs: openness (cognitive defusion and acceptance), awareness (flexible attention and a transcendent sense of self), and engagement (values and committed action). They are not six separate things — they work as a system.
  • The statistical methods clinicians rely on — Pearson's R, analysis of variance, factor analysis — were developed by eugenicists and assume that differences between people predict any individual's future. The ergodic theorem, proven in the 1930s, demonstrates mathematically that this assumption is false.
  • Process-based therapy means starting with the person in front of you, identifying which processes are lifting them up or pushing the

The Self Careapist Therapist Podcast is a biweekly conversation with Lorain Moorehead, LCSW a therapist in private practice.  With guests ranging from expert psychologists, therapists, researchers and authors, each episode offers a deep dive and keeps listeners from intern to advanced supervisor  in mind while dropping gems and aha moments for everyone who loves to learn! If you love learning and want to keep track of some future learning opportunities, grab your personal curriculum here!

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