All Ireland Football Final Preview with Mark McHugh

We preview this years All Ireland Football Final with Special Guest Mark McHugh.

2:42 Mark Enters
12:08 Getting the Westmeath Job
22:37 Toughest Team They Faced in 2026
25:33 John Heslins Return
33:58 Half Time Team Talks
48:01 Donegal 2012
59:53 Michael Moyles, Alan Costello, Sean McDermott Predictions.
1:08:20 Rapid Fire Fun with Mark
1:10:16 All Ireland Preview
1:31:23 Players of the Year and Final Predictions
We chatted about Mark winning Leinster with Westmeath, plus we relive some of his 2012 memories.
Lots of chat craic and debate.
Thanks to The Village Inn, Cartron for letting us use the space, to EJ Menswear who helped us get the message out and kitted us out, to The White Hag Brewery for looking after the audience with drinks, to Brian at Pixel Productions who was on Sound/AV/Livestream duties and to all who turned up. We raised €600 on the night for CF Ireland. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hello and welcome to the On the Image Live All Ireland final podcast preview here in the village of the Let's Wednesday at 18 o'clock, and they're absolutely pulsing already. This is amazing. Again, thanks to everyone at home or around the world. It's hard to say that sometimes you imagine people are watching this from all over the world. German's getting more nervous by the minute here. So whenever you're tuning in, like, share, comment, and again, drop in some questions. We might see some of them at halftime. And without further ado, we'll kick straight into it. As me and Darren also, we don't do big long intros. So if any of you been watching this year, I mean had a new uh guest host this year, an analyst. They call him the new Pat Splan, um, all the way from Giva. Uh so give it up for Darren Kearns. So in the uh in the very first episode, uh we asked Darren who's going to win the All Ireland. And you said, Darren.

SPEAKER_06 0:54

I was only messing, I said Arma.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

So they're definitely not going to win it. We're safe enough on that one. Would you say, Darren, it's been the best championship you've ever seen?

SPEAKER_06 1:03

Uh it's up there. It's up there, I suppose, the new rules uh bringing them games up to a new level from what we're seeing over the last few years. The big scores that's happening in all the games this year, teams not out of it with the two-pointer. So I suppose based on what we've seen over the last few months, yeah, you could say it's up there with one of the best championships ever, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

And how's life been as a pundit? Are you getting much abuse?

SPEAKER_06 1:26

Uh pundit? Uh no, look at uh enjoying it, enjoying it. Um I probably when you give me the text or the call at the start of the year, I didn't know what I was getting myself in for. But yeah, look at we're rocking and rolling with it and we're joining us.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Well, you're getting lots of I'm getting lots of good feedback about you all the arnives. And some bad feedback as well. Wait till the money starts flowing in. And before we kick on, I want to say massive thanks to the Village Inn bar here in Cartran in Sligo. By the way, if you're looking for a party venue, as you can probably see in part of the camera, this is an unbelievable spot. Uh, I wanted to bring an event down to my local bar here. So Murray and John have been unbelievably helpful to me. I want to also thank White Hag Brewery and Brawley Moat, who gave us, if you were here and you're watching home, if you were here, you'd be now getting a free pint of lovely cloudless White Hag. So thanks to Bob and the guys of White Hag. Thanks to EJs who kitted us out and also been helping us with the promo. And finally to Mr. Brian McDermott who's doing all the live streaming and all the setup of the stage from Pixel Productions. If you need any live streaming or events or conferencing, check out Pixel Productions. Okay, let's get on to the main man of the night, okay? This man is a multiple Ulster Championship winner, an all-star, an all-Ireland winner, and now this year at 35 years of age, I'm pretty sure the youngest manager ever to do so, a Leinster-winning manager of Westmeath. Give it up, please, for Mark McKew.

Mark Enters

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Hello, Mark. So uh the the three of us are all connected by IT Sligo, now ATU Sligo, in some different ways and veins and that, and we're all drinking water and black currents. We're all very sensible nowadays. But Mark, this is not your first time in the village, and you were telling me.

SPEAKER_08 2:59

No, this was my local back in the day, actually. Sunday nights. Sunday nights was hard to bait. We used to come up and we'd had two friends up here in uh Cartran living. There were there were Rossi's there. I say Mayo people and the Rossi's Mayo don't get on that well. So it's a few both. We used to come in and I think the barman was John, he'd walk around. There's the lads now. There they are now. He was counting the till already. And um we used to come and just play a game and pool for a few pints maybe on a Sunday night after the game, and we used to head to town then. So um no, well well known, well, well, well known in here, and uh it's good to be back. It's good to be back, and it's good to be back drinking uh black country because the memory's in here. Listen, they were good, but um long time ago. Great times, good times, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

So I mean you were destined to to have a life in in G, obviously with your dad, but you were born uh in 1990. Hopefully, I've all me some research right. It was a few days after your dad lost the All Ireland semi-final, and was he there for the birth? Was he was he was he in at home? Did you ask him?

SPEAKER_08 3:50

Yeah, I think he I think he missed my birth, but I don't think it was because of the Ireland semi-final. I think it was a different reason. I think it was work. Alright. Um he would have always said, Dad, that he it was was his worst game he ever played for for Donegal. He um they they won that they won the Ulster in 1990. Bren right uh Brennan O'Reilly down there will tell you more about the game than I was because he would say he was at it and I wasn't, but um yeah, they played against Meath in the semi-final and he just did a bad game. I think he was targeted, but and um he was taken off. I think it was the only time ever he was taken off. So he would always say uh that my and coming into the world two or three later kept him playing football for another two years because he needed left, but um he probably didn't know the hardship I was gonna cost him then over the next 20 years, but uh no, that was the story. So uh uh no, I do think he was he was around Letter Kenny that day anyway, um, that I that I was born. So uh celebrate sweet. Yeah, you have the detail.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

And I I just one funny quote I read my research uh that when you did win the All Ireland in 2012, you said the woman I marry is going to have to be very, very good to top this. And I just wonder, has herself has she done the trick? She might be watching live.

SPEAKER_08 4:55

Oh yeah, uh she she she she beats she beats everything to be fair to her. Um if it wasn't for her, um I wouldn't be able to do anything, you know. I wouldn't be able to do anything in in playing or coaching. Like I I'm out of the house more than I'm in the house. I I'm up here tonight. I played a game of football this night for Kilkiar, I'm away tomorrow night, and listen, she she holds the fort and Noah's down there along with me tonight. Yeah, the young ladies. Um yeah, when it comes to to being a manager or being a coach of any you know high-level team that you need to be out of the house, you need a rock, you need a rock at home, and you need you need a good support system, and it's not just it's not just her, her pair her her her mum helps out looking after the kids, and then uh my own mum and dad are just over the road too. So you need it, you need a support system to be able to do these things. And I don't think uh I've always said like people give out so she must be a saint. I think it would never have worked if um you know that it's it's always been the way in our house, even when I was playing. So uh no, it's it's it works well, and maybe listen, part of it is that uh maybe it works so well because I am out of the house so much, so we don't get on each other's nerves. We don't get on each other's nerves much, but no, listen, um I remember saying that quote in the middle of uh in the middle of Crow Park, I think it was Joanne Cantwell at the time, and I I said, but no, between between the three kids being born and uh and and and Marianne Ashley, it was it was a great few years, you know. So listen, um yeah, it's it's it's great looking back in them times actually. Uh I was only a kid, you know. I was 20 just turned 22 years of age when we won. Right when we won Sam Prime. It went downhill after that fairly quickly. Um but yeah, it's it it was I was a young cob and I'm looking there now at managing and coaching young lads, and you're like, these are only coddies, you know, these are only young.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

You're not too like 35, but like like was it David Burke in Ross Common? He was 31 when he took over Wicklow or something.

SPEAKER_06 6:44

Was he, yeah?

SPEAKER_04 6:44

But 35, like you didn't win Leinster though. Okay, there but I know I know Darrell was saying like it, like, what's it like being the youngest manager? Did does that pitch to you to win Leinster, I should say?

SPEAKER_08 6:55

Yeah, um I think I think I think for the for for the time commitment, I I would have said after interviews, I do I do admire older older gentlemen, I suppose, or older men that do this job because I think the energy that you need to bring to an intercounty setup now is huge. And again, I am 35, I couldn't even envision myself doing it when I'm 45, the energy and and the commitment that you have to actually give to it. But no doubt when I'm 45 I'll probably still be doing it, like you know, because it's part of you. But I I think um yeah, I I suppose it was a big it was a big decision for the for the Westmead County board. Like I hadn't managed, I had I I managed to know what's under 10 team there, and that's actually harder work. That's harder work, that's harder work than the West Mead senior team. We're 10 tomorrow night, you know, by the way.

SPEAKER_06 7:43

But just touching on that, Mark, you were probably like, were you destined to be a coach, destined to be a manager, looking back at what dad done? I know I was involved with him in 2002 when won the Sigurdson, and you were probably watching that all through your underage career. So was it something that was set in the zone for you?

SPEAKER_08 8:03

Probably maybe um subconsciously, maybe, but it's not something as I said, you know, as I said, Noah's down there. He's not dreaming to be a Donegal manager, he's doing anything all coach, he's been in dreaming to be a Donegal player, and that's what we all dream about, you know. As any, you know, I'm sure the people in Sligo are dreaming of being Sligo players. And I I think it's towards the end of the end of the your your footballing term, and I suppose I finished a wee bit earlier, but you know, the reason I finished was because maybe I got me you know I dipped me toe into coaching and I loved it, but I didn't realise that until that until that age. I think you know, I was going to football I was following dad was working on Highland Radio at the time and he went to every single Donegal League match year after year after year, and I was just nose age there now. And like just I suppose being at football matches, watching it all the time, you're just learning, and you're you're sitting in the back of the car and you're nosy as hell when you're a young lad, too, and you're just listening to adults speak, and uh the way they spoke about football. So I was was it I don't think designed ever to be it because there's so many you know players and there's so many people out there that that have played the game that that have that have tried their dab hand at it and and and they failed, it's like everything. So I I I got lucky, you know. There's no point saying when I started the me journey I got I got I got good teams and I I learned from every every setup I was in, I I learned from, you know.

SPEAKER_06 9:25

Stepping stone was it the Fermanagh miners you were with first and then on to the Rossies, our beloved Rossies. Yeah, we'd go we'd a good yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

There's usually few around here.

SPEAKER_08 9:34

Yeah, we we we we'd a good year, you know. With the Rossies, actually, we we were we were tipped at the very start of that year to go right back down. And um, as I said, Davy had asked me, and I didn't know a while about Davy at the time, you know, when he kind of just approached me. I remember I was out in my stag in Portugal where we were doing a golfing stag at the time, and he rang me up and see what he got involved in a senior team, and you're like, Jesus, at that stage, you'd just jump at it and then you've just been at minor, so for man of minor at that stage. Uh no, I had just we had just actually taken the Donegal ladies team to an Ireland semi-final and we talked to Maxi, was it into a league final? We lost both to Mead actually. So I I just dipped my toe in, and I suppose what he was looking for at the time was somebody young, someone energetic that was coming on the scene that that had just finished the game, that probably knew what the modern day football at that stage was. And um listen, I I couldn't I couldn't really say no to a senior division one team at that stage, so it kind of fell for me at that stage, and um I only kind of stayed there for the year. It was just listen, there was maybe you know disagreements in the way we were training and stuff like that, and um it was a long drive for for me to go down and pulling my hair out on the way home and stuff like that. So um I I listen, we we we kind of just we we we we parted ways pretty pretty easy. But then Jerry, Jerry McGowan, who I still I'm still very friendly with, actually. I met him there earlier on for a coffee. Um, you know, Jerry's a masterman in Sligo Sport, but he was he was involved with us in Ross Common too, and I learned so much of him, like you know, as a top rate of coach, yeah. He's a he's a brilliant coach, you know, he's a brilliant coach and he's a brilliant guy too. So um, no, listen, again, you're pulling wee bits from everybody and you're trying to put them together then. And listen, that's what I try to do this year.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

And uh was there was there one coach throughout the journey that you go, I will really learn to laugh from them, like is it is the obvious answer Jim?

SPEAKER_08 11:15

Yeah, well I suppose listen, Jim McGuinness and Rory Galler would be the two that was together at that stage in Donegal, and they were my first coaches, and they were probably they were probably the best, you know, out of everything, they were probably the best. So a lot of my training and a lot of my management skills would probably be I'm not saying you're not copying them, you're putting your own stunt on them, but you're taking a wee bits from everybody. And um it's just as opposed to the intense that both of them had trained at and the the clarity that they would give to their players. I think that's the best thing about any coaches when you're going out in the field, are you completely crystal clear of the job that you have to do as an individual that day? And if you are, I've done my job, and if they don't do it, that's fine, that that happens. But it's when when you're going out and there's mixed messages and we don't know what we're doing here, we don't know what we're doing there, that man should be there when he's over there. That's when things get messy, and I think that's when you know that's the difference maybe in a top coach.

SPEAKER_06 12:07

You worked with McCabe

Getting the Westmeath Job

SPEAKER_06 12:08

for a year at Westmead. Yep, and then he stepped away to take the Cavan job. Did the call come soon after that from the Westmead County board? Or no, no, no, the call didn't come from the Westmead County Board.

SPEAKER_08 12:21

Listen, um, there was kind of debates whether I was going to go to Cavan or was it gonna leave completely? And I um I just I just I kind of the players, a few of the players had wronged me more than the county board, and they were saying, you know, Mark, we want you to stay on here as a coach, and I'm like, what if I took the job? And they're like, geez, no, we didn't think of you that, but yeah, that would be a good enough idea. Like if we just want continuity and stuff of the way you did last year, and um I says um, Dark McCabe leaving did did you know he was gonna leave, or did that when the Calvin job came up? No, but he wasn't he was never he was never gonna leave until the Calvin job came up, to be fair. Like, you know, we were the three of us kind of the management team there that we had that last year, we were all bought in for another year, and then I remember us going down to meet the county board, the three of us, and then the following day Gallagher had left. Um, so I knew straight away he's gonna be titled for this job, it's his home county, he's gonna want the job, and then we had to just get thinking, then what is the best thing? And and I was like to myself, and I know I was a wee bit young. And when you're working with coaches, yes, no matter what, you're gonna have disagreements and you're gonna agree in different things, but ultimately, if you disagree, he has the say. So I'm like, I'd like my friggin' say, you know, I'd like to do that, yeah, you know, and and and and don't have to answer to anybody else. And if I do make a mistake, it's on me. It's not it's not me driving home and saying, Fuck that bastard. He should, you know, he should have, he should have he should have done it that way, and you know, so I says, I'm gonna I'm gonna chat to the players, and I says, This is what I'm thinking before I go to the county board. And um now the county board had rang me obviously and asked me to stay on as a coach, okay. And I says, I don't think I could coach you know fresh again with somebody else. I had known Dermot McCabe all my life, basically, through my father, with the time he was in Cavan. So we had built up a relationship, and I trusted him when I was going down there, and I knew the way he thought about football and the way he talked about football, so I I kind of knew I I knew what I was getting myself into. Where if you were just going to go with somebody that you didn't really know, that's when I would kind of question myself now. But um I says I says I rang the county board back and says, listen, I'm not gonna stay on as a coach, but if you want me to take the job, I I'd love to talk chatties about it. And they were kind of taken aback a wee bit too. And as I said, they took a gamble as well, didn't they? They did and paid off. Oh listen, you you you take you take gambles sometimes in life, and um I'm not sure as many more in for the job, but anyway, maybe they had maybe they had to give it to me.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

This year, so you you've been the main man, as you said, you're responsible for everybody. What's been the biggest surprise for you? Be like, oh, I'm the manager, like what's changed, or what kind of did you go? God, I didn't realise all of this was on me now. Or were you kind of already going to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_08 14:57

Listen, uh it's it's a responsibility and the pressure that that that comes with the big job. Your name is out front and centre. Thankfully, it went reasonably well this year for us. You know, we that's a statement. Well, we had I know it ended up well, but now there was an there was there was a few we we we got beat to Wexford um by uh I'm sure people have watched the game. We were cruising in the game, we were eight points up with ten minutes left, and all we needed was a draw to get promoted. Yeah, um and I could not see his bait, I couldn't see the way we were playing football. And just coming down the street, I thought the referee made to give us a call or two to um to X for maybe it was called a hometown call, but um we we we we we messed up on the last play, and all we needed to do was not give away a goal. A two-pointer we were drawn and we were we were still happy, and uh it just was unfolding in front of my face, and I'm like, this is gonna happen here. And I went on and on a goal. And I think I was shocked for about four days. Um and I was in a bad place, like, and that's management brings you to dark places, like you know, and you're blaming yourself, you know, you're blaming yourself for the changes you made, for the decisions you made, and for the players who was on the field, like it's on you. And I remember driving home that day, that night, I I couldn't even make it home. I stopped at Sleeve Russell Hotel and I booked in there and I went upstairs. And I don't know that I wouldn't recommend this to anyone, but I watched Dexter, which is about a serial killer, like you know, and I watched seven episodes of that and fell asleep, and it wasn't a good place to be.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

Like the people in near the Sleeve Russell don't know how looking they are.

SPEAKER_08 16:28

No, I well I c I pulled the curtains, and that's where you're at where it got to.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

Like you were like, I just can't function or talk to anyone.

SPEAKER_08 16:34

No, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't even make it home that night. Now, to be fair, the following morning we got off the sleeve russell, me and a coach of mine, but I came home and I went to bed, unfortunately, when I got home um that night for two days in my own in my own home and kept watching Dexter. But um Would you recommend it again? No, I definitely wouldn't because only for we had a team meeting on the Wednesday. I had to get up and be down for that. Well, that was the reason I got up and down.

SPEAKER_06 16:58

But I suppose it's small margins, isn't it? Like if you go back to the opening game in the National League, you played Sligo and kick of a ball. I think he got the winner very late on, and then you got a sucker punch at the end of the league. Like I suppose when you're looking at that, that was Sligo's season kind of went down the way after that. Years was on a gradual upslope, he got a hiccup along the way by not getting promoted. But then you look at the championship of both teams. Like, I suppose when you seen Sligo that day, you probably thought that they were going to have a bit of a say in maybe the Connect Championship, or definitely the Taulton Cup at the time. Yeah. And you just see where that ends up. So it's very small margins can make a huge difference in a season.

SPEAKER_08 17:36

Yeah, I was I was surprised, I have to say, I was very, very shocked. Sligo, we we played Sligo in that game, and then actually a few weeks later, we played Sligo up here in Stantellas, the two second teams, you know, and they beat our second team relatively well that night. And I said these are going well, and you know, obviously, I I haven't really watched them since that because we haven't really come across them, but it did do a wee bit for them, and it's something that they're going to just have to try to improve on next year. But yeah, football is small margin, sport is small margin, life is small margin, like you know. So um, I I also think I'm chatting about the hurt and the pain of Wexford. I felt that, and I'm sure the players felt that as well. And I actually think, subconsciously or whatever, we met that Wednesday night and we said, lads, we have to put this hurt now, we don't ever want to feel this again. And um, you know, we were right then that meeting on the Wednesday night. Did anybody in that room think we would have been in all Ireland series, not alone one in Leinster? Because we the only way we were gonna get into an Ireland series was to get to Leinster final. So we were in the Tatlin Cup that night, and that's all you know. I I could have gone down and said, Right, we're gonna win the Tatlin Cup, I didn't. I went down and I put up a picture of uh Ronald Wallace at a at a Leinster launch holding the cup, and I said, We're gonna win that, you know. We're gonna take that hurt that we had from that Wexford game, which is still on me, boys, it's still in me, and it was in all of them, you could see in their faces, and we're gonna we're gonna turn heads. So you're saying that was a turning point and I think it well it was you know if we won it, you know, would we have played then with mighty confidence afterwards? You don't know, you you can't say, but it definitely that hurt spurred us for for for the Leinster Challenge.

SPEAKER_06 19:11

You aimed high, like like obviously you said you could have gone in and says, right, let's go and win the Taunton Cup. And in football circumstances that can be seen as a bit of progress, and you're in the All-Ireland series for next year, but you aimed high and says, Let's go and win Leinster.

SPEAKER_08 19:26

I I like my my very first interview with uh the Westmead, the night they got me the job, you know, and I I I did say that night um because our our sports our sports psych just put it up actually the night before the Leinster Championship, but I said why not Westmeath? Um I'd felt the Loud thing helped. Loud won in Leinster the Leinster Championship to be fair for years and years in Leinster Dublin adjusted the run of the thing, and they were the best team ever to play the game, so um there was no shame in losing that, but it had opened up, and I was like, we we had played Loudh in the league the previous year and we they beat us by a last-minute point or last-minute goal or something. I said, lads, if I would have told you that in a day that Louthe was going to be Leinster champions, you he's wouldn't have probably believed us, but if if they are what they are, why the hell can't we do it? You know, and I do think the Loud thing not only spurred on Westmeath but spurred on a lot of teams around the country. You know, the new rules have has has brought everybody back to the pack. I do think Kerry's still a wee bit ahead of it in in terms of the rest, but I do think anybody can beat any anybody in every day. Like Mayo, Mayo's gone into an alternative final, but haven't lost two games. Yeah, you know what I mean? So everybody, even Kerry have lost a game. Don't he go hammered them? Yeah, you know, so everybody has lost games, and that that doesn't usually happen in years gone by. So it it's it's a lot tighter championship. We're gonna look now, hopefully, at saying, right, Louth won Leinster, and then the following year they went to Leinster semi-finals, that's our next job. Definitely aim high again. So why not?

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Since you've been a manager, like has there been any crazy stuff happening or funny stories? You go, I never thought I'd have to be dealing with this with grown men.

SPEAKER_08 20:59

Oh, there'd be a lot tight.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

Without naming names.

SPEAKER_08 21:03

You probably can't say them on camera anyhow. Skiing. I hate skiing because if I if a man comes up to me and tells me he's going on a skiing holiday, um no, listen, um like lads going on holidays, date nights, you know, yeah. Love island. Love island. Oh, we we never had that problem. I again, again, I I I I can't like I suppose the culture within I suppose not I'm not saying the weaker countries. Maybe it's not the weaker counties could have been Yeah, I'm not even saying the weaker counties, but the culture within other counties that maybe are not at the top table are is a wee bit different. And it's supposed it's about changing that. So when you're coming in and you're telling them that you're going to train four or five times a week, or you're going to you know they can't go to this wedding, they can't go to that sky, they they are looking at you with funny, with funny heads like, but um yeah, I I I also think listen the the the the generation that's coming now has changed. I I do think the younger generation. generation they're they wouldn't be in here for their Sunday pints they'd be out they'd be looking at themselves in the mirror and they'd be uh making sure they look alright for Instagram and I've no I have no issue saying that because I think that's what they're adding they're more maybe gamers they're more into their they're they're out drinking coffees instead of drinking pints and that's great for society don't get me wrong so that's that's that's that's the way they're they're they're going but um listen uh funny stories in terms of management um I I don't any I just don't know any off the top of my head it might come back as we go to the question if it does it'll be if anyone's watching in we will be doing the all our preview in the second half okay but we really want to we're not not if we get a chance like some of yourself here so the like with

Toughest Team They Faced in 2026

SPEAKER_08 22:37

the the year you've had um who was the toughest team you've seen who's the best team in the flesh you played some of them might be out some of them Galway right yeah Galway um what are you saying that because the Tier D's beside you but like if what I was I felt I felt Galway could have hammered us if you know what I mean you did say that after the they didn't but I felt they could have and I felt that they were the most physically empowerable and skillful team that uh that caused us bother um but then again like they they they caused us a lot of bother and kick out and then they went and played Dublin and they they seemed to completely change that day then against Dublin so I didn't figure that out but um yeah they were they were the but they're at the top table like that they should be the best team we played but we like every game we've played this year in terms of um has gone down to the wire we three extra times like that's right too meath meath was our kind of first real statement one um and everybody had tipped me but we beat them well they came back into the game towards the end but we were ten points up with with whatever seven or eight minutes left in them like we had we had their number that day and um I don't know what it was were they flat or were they just not prepared for what we were we were to bring but we were we were we were good that day Dublin the Dublin game was uh Dublin in a final in Crow Park since 2001 they have not been beat like in a final Leinster final or all Ireland final they drew two against Mayo's obviously which they eventually went on to won so I think somebody said they'd 31 finals won 29 of them and drew two which they eventually won so they've never lost so we were the first team to beat them so along comes Mark McHugh oh no no no it wasn't Mark McHugh now it was the 15 players in the field plus the same players who went on but we we did say we had to bring something completely different to that game that nobody else had ever brought and I think we just brought a level of running and a level of fitness I suppose that they like if you're looking back on that Leinster win the fact that you bet the dubs in the final I think um it's the best way to do it like because if you had gone along and you bet Mead and then you bet Loud in a final for say and you hadn't played the dubs then everybody was saying well sure they didn't beat the dubs in 2012 we're told we don't beat the dubs so we hadn't we hadn't beat them and that and that's true. You always want to beat the best yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:55

So then now now that you actually took them down after extra time in in a merited win by all accounts like you know because you had their measure for a long way out and we should have won the game in normal time we were we were cruising we were five up I suppose with uh with about six or seven to play and you know we we let them back in and we stupid foul at the top of the R for a two-pointer um and they should have won the game at the end Dublin Dublin were straight two and goal chance yeah it would have been another wexford another Dexter for another week for Back to the season of Dexter I would have got the second season of Dexter but uh I suppose when you're when you're touching on that there just break into the

John Heslins Return

SPEAKER_06 25:33

Heston situation the John Hessen situation for the dubs there we got called back in was there any animosity from any panel members I know that you said that you wanted to have the final say on a lot of things that was happening which you had I suppose Heston was playing club football in Westmeath and kicking big scores and he was obviously keeping himself in phenomenal shape and I'm sure from the outside looking in that he was welcome back with open arms and came straight back into the panel and didn't look out of place at all.

SPEAKER_08 26:01

Yeah listen it was it took a lot of thought it took a lot of thought there's no point saying any difference we we we had invited people throughout the year into the panel that was playing good club football but they weren't John Heslin and you know only for maybe I'd mentioned them interviews nobody'd ever known that they were in but we knew by bringing John in it was going to create this media storm. Now there's a few things to it I suppose um one we we we picked up a lot of injuries no glass no glass so look look Luke went off uh Luke went off against Meade having kicked six points and we actually thought it was only a wee strain and then we found out it was off the bone so I listened to his interview afterwards he thought himself it was only a wee straight I think we did we only think it was strain and Johnny Johnny Laneham who actually scored two goals against Sligo in the first round of the league and who was massive for us in the league did his cruciate against Wexford we Baidu who was our cornerback he had done his hands thing off the bone we had a keeper who we lost we we were five or six well short um boys have been playing um so we we we said we have to stand the panel because no disrespect to lads that are first year on the squad and you know younger lads they just may not be experienced enough to go into that cauldron off a Leinster final or a championship game at that level against the it was one of them decisions you were like it's gonna go wrong or it's gonna go right but the way I looked at it I think Dublin were one day to undeat us so I says we're expected to lose the game anyway you know what I mean I says I'm gonna have a conversation with him he's not just back for this Leinster final I actually didn't think at the start I was only I was even going to put him in the squad for the Leinster final so we had a very important game against Kavan in two weeks and I'm looking at division three next year where he's a damn good free taker I says I'm gonna need a man next year to kick free so I says I'm gonna meet him with a purpose of coming back into the squad for the rest of the year and hopefully next year. And that was great and then he came into training and you couldn't leave him off the 26. So you know you couldn't leave him off the 26 I said I'm looking at him and I'm looking at you and I'm like well he's gonna play ahead of you like you know so um I there was no there was no aminocy there was we we met in the sleeve russell uh that uh that night I took them back they weren't watching Dexter that day though but uh um no we we had a big meeting we went away for a training camp and I introduced him to the squad him and another fella came in at the one time but nobody heard it another fella that was it that but that's the way and I knew it was going to blow up and then the last thing it just distracted everything from us and exactly what we kind of wanted um it took all the pressure off all the rest of the players that went out and had an unbelievable game of football and they could go in and the whole week all everybody just spoke about John Hesson yeah like you and like touching on that as well like you're obviously talking about Hesson coming back into training and you're talking about training camps and team meetings like how do you manage the time between obviously young Noah down there and the other two kids at home and the missus and work and everything else like how do you manage your week or who manages your week have you a PA or something like that or how does it work out listen we we we I've I have a great coordinator there in Westmeath Marie you know to be fair and she she is she she looks after things down that end of the county it's just time management you know it's it's it's late nights it's early mornings it's trying to you know you have seven days in a week I suppose and you're trying to fit everything in as best you can there there's always a saying if you want something done ask a busy man like you know um but no more than what Brendan was asking me at the start of the start of the podcast you need a support system uh at home and you need a support system at work and it's you know work my my boss Dermot has to be he knows he's to be very flexible with me but then again it it helps helps business you know me being involved in that in that company has helped business we've we've grown it together the last number of years as well so um that that's all part and parcel of it but again it's funny where we live I don't know has anybody been to Kilcara I'm sure there's there's a few he's been to Kilcara but we we're so far away from everything it's just actually over the water there if you actually get the binoculars out all right Tony Gall tourism here if you get the binoculars out you'll see us we look over here every every day we wake up I'm actually I live along the coast so I'm just looking out over you but we live away from everywhere so when I was playing Tony Gall I was an hour and a half to let a kinny so I was so used to that hour and a half drive all my life you're putting an extra hour on it you know but it doesn't it you know I'm so used to driving that's basically the point I'm trying to get if we want to go to the cinema we're an hour away we'll have to go to the hospital we're an hour and a half you know that's we're we're so used to driving and um even if I was it's funny if I was managing a team if I was managing Donegal for example I still want to be back to half eleven at night so what's the difference between back at half twelve in bed anyway so that's that's the probably the conversation me and Ashton have before I take these jobs is you know it kind of work is it working and it just happens it happens then anyway so how how accessible are you to the players? Could they be randomly any given day texting you or you kind of go lads there's a window that's when you contact me or you is it just constant no no no listen the my my phone's my phone's always on to players especially and um if they if they really want to chat they'll text me and we'll we'll we'll arrange a call but you know what I kind of made a bit of point at the start of the year is you know if you're not making a team or you're not making a squad I'm not saying don't be ringing but just train harder. Just put put put yourself in my viewpoint at training and everything will come from training and they know that and I've been very very fair um if you had any West me player in here if you train well you'll get a chance with us and um they know if they're not getting a chance they're not training well so we have to see that but yes you have different conversations at different times throughout the year and maybe some people are ringing you more and you just you just what's the biggest headache is it like requests for this and the other like you know being asked to do podcasts or things like that but is there people always annoying you will you come do this will you do a picture with this they are they are it's it's it's it's it's it's a privilege too to be to be asked to do these things don't get me wrong I'll I'll I say no more than I say yes and you just have to but um it's it's good that you know that you're in a position in your life that you that you have been asked and which means you're doing something maybe well you know and um if I help different people or different stages or you know it's it's great you'll say you'll always um you you know listen I suppose for the for the punk purpose of this you know Ozzy Cairns have been with me in college and you know you you you you you've been working on Celigo the time we were up in Sligo and pure and stuff like that and then you had your brother who was very good to me as well. So listen you do you do things for people that do things for you. I always get that you what comes around goes around. Apart from watching Dexter if a game goes wrong who's the first person you call after the match who's your oracle that you go I can say everything it'll be confident I suppose my dad yeah I'd ring him after the game yeah um well again maybe it depends who's who wears the game or if he was at the game if he sees the game if he wasn't at the game there's no point really ringing him you you've you've a good trust within your management team that you're that you're you're ringing and you're giving out crap to either about this person or this person or maybe it was us that did the mistake you know um but uh yeah there's there's there's different friends I said I I speak a lot to Jerry McGowan as well I do he's a kind of a a bit of a mentor to me over the last number of years as well and uh yeah different different people at different stages you're ringing friends just to let off a bit of steam and I I could ring a lad that hasn't a clue about football too and just get your mind off it you know chat about something else and uh you need them as well.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

So within the dressing room are you more of a like a shouter or are you chill?

SPEAKER_08 33:11

What would the players tell us I think I think I started my career as a big shouter. I would shout a lot of training as in if I'm doing a drill or something like that I would try to get intensity up through kind of roaring and you know saying what the frig are you doing there or try to get you know get your ass in gear here. But I I I've I've I've chilled a wee bit in the dressing room I let maybe other people do the shouting but as I said earlier on I'm not saying there's no point in shouting there's a time and place to shout don't get me wrong but as I said even at halftime or before the game what your job was to make sure the picture is clear for them to what they need to do. So you're going through your your maybe your three or four valid just your your points that you're that you've worked on all week you're saying this is point one two and three we do this we won the game so it's

Half Time Team Talks

SPEAKER_08 33:58

halftime do you kind of go let's keep it simple there's actually a guy who's done a thesis on this the nine minute something it's called and he said sometimes players listen to other players ahead of the manager. But do you kind of go with three things everyone shuts up for a second or what's your kind of um go to so at half time I'm not sure is every management team the same but there's there's usually there's usually two dressing rooms so there's a management dressing room and there's a there's a player dressing room and most grounds you go to like if you go to a club there'll be a senior reserve dressing room or whatever but we we we always have our own our own dressing room before the game and at halftime we're going in there for five minutes without even going to the players so the players know the players not probably they're getting their breath but they're also chatting to each other and they're they know what's going wrong as much as anybody. Now sometimes you have to slide somebody in there to make sure there's nothing you know kind of fighting going on between them as well. And that and that's important. Because you know you have you have you have different you know you have leaders in a dressing room and then you have people dealing with different characters. Yeah you're dealing with different characters and maybe there's there's young cubs in it wouldn't say boo to to to to the wall so um yeah they're in there for five minutes they're owned basically what they're doing is they're getting their breath we're getting them chilled getting them back down what we try to do then is try to come up again with three or four points that we have done wrong that we need to do better.

SPEAKER_06 35:13

So if the players are getting their breath you're definitely getting your breath because some of the rising of the crowd you were doing on the sideline on a few of the games like do you find that that is driving the team on because I listened to a few of us were at Jim Gavin over the weekend and he was saying that there's not an awful lot of point in shouting in Crow Park because the players can't hear you on the pitch anyway. Absolutely none I so you couldn't hear me after a Monday my voice would go on and like turning around to the crowd was that just get the crowd going which will in turn get the team going on the pitch to be fair to be fair the only time I ever turned to the ground the game was over.

SPEAKER_08 35:43

No it was it was over I I I'm fully focused on the job at hand I wouldn't so the few times I turned to the crowd it was there were four points up with 30 seconds left.

SPEAKER_06 35:52

That's when I got the crowd going on that was just yeah that was just pause you know like with the with the with the Hooter now you know you know if you're four points up you they can't score twice yeah yeah within 40 seconds but like game one you were involved in some serious battles like a couple of extra time games like I suppose like you go back to the the dubs game the Leicester final right you won that but the Cavan game that you were six points down an extra time in shocking conditions like you came back you dug that out like you like you had serious leaders on the pitch that day that really got you out of jail like it was Heston turned over the ball in the middle of the field for a goal later on in the game. It's a great decision to take it back wasn't it it was a brilliant decision looking back on that like it was so you know like them games like they really study you did like and then I suppose when you went up to Clonus for the Monhan the last game of the season like were you out on your feet like you had a lot of travelling done I know I think that was the third or fourth game Monhan had played in Clonus at the time and they don't get bet too often in Clonus you know that yourself and it was just was it a step too far and are you looking forward to next season which you know thinking we can go another step I know that you mentioned in an interview that them games could be at a neutral venue or should be at a neutral venue which is a debate definitely to be had because the home advantage when it gets to that stage of the championship is huge. So was did you think just towards the end of the season did you run out of legs or was it just a little bit of unluckiness?

SPEAKER_08 37:15

No it was an unluckiness no I definitely wasn't I think we had a phenomenal Leinster championship we we had Longford we had Meath we had Killaire that we took extra time we had Dublin we took extra time and then we had the Cavan game that we took the extra time as a young squad that hadn't been in that position before it just our squad wasn't built for it like and then coupled saw it earlier on with six injuries like if you had them and then that's not even mentioning like Ray Ken Ellen couldn't play against Monaghan Matthew Whittaker was on one leg Sam McCartan had an AC joint that he got from the NB we were just patching people up and I'll be straight and it's a one thing to say but I would have been worried if we did one how we'd have even gone into the following week you know um but listen we left absolutely everything on that clonus field uh we had a brilliant first half the energy was awesome and um we should have been ahead we give away three soft enough I would say two pointer freeze that began kicked over and if he didn't kick them over I think we would have been four or five ups with the breeze second half anything could happen then but no um we probably just ran out of I ran out of steam the Galway game um I agree like that weekend that Monaghan beat us there's four games that we get in and the four home teams won you know it's so much jeopardy like look at other sports look at American sports the home teams always won in the people maybe the Jay don't realise how important you run through uh the league fixtures come January or or February and look at the first weekend there could be what is there 16 games is there over the four divisions yeah 16 games over the four divisions I guarantee you maybe 13 of them home teams will won no matter who you're playing and and there's you know and that's that's so I I think it shouldn't come down to who's picked out of a hat first. Like we have enough grounds all over the country to let let people go and even if you look at what happened in the um I suppose teams are putting in such an effort all year that them real knockout games like yeah yeah as I said if and then if you want to look at the uh the the the financial end of things like how much money did they lose with our Maluth game by only letting 3,000 people out you know they could have you know they could have filled Clonus for that. So that wasn't fair to their supporters either and um if they want to go down a route again I'll go back to American sports like how they're seated for their home you deserve to get your home fixture. If they want to do that that's fine but don't have it just you're pulling out of the hat and you have to go to we had to go to Galway we'd have to Mayo or not Mayo sorry we'd go to Galway to go to Monan to play um to to to play in a way game that basically ended your season like that it's you know it's do you do you think the travelling genuinely like long coast journeys has a big effect on players I mean you play it at the highest level did you find that yeah I it's it's traveling I suppose we we we when when when you're playing for Donegal you know anywhere you go you need to stay a night before anyway if you're going down to Dublin. But um Westme to be fair right back in the middle bang in the middle of Ireland so we we we didn't travel the night before Galway didn't travel the night before Monhan like we're we were still only an hour to clone us like it's not that we're far away but you're just you're playing and you're playing in pitches that people know the back of their hand. Like we played six games in Molangar this year and won every one of them okay you know what I mean pitch you got used to that space but it's not even the type it's just you know you train there you know you train there and that's why I think I think there's two jeopardy on a home game at that stage of the season so listen to be fair the championship has seemed to gone very well and exciting so they might not change it but there's definitely we tweaks I do like the system I do like the system but there's something that they need to do if it's neutral or as I said um they might have to put a bit more emphasis if because on the provincial winners to let them maybe make a double home or something that's that's what I'm on about the seeding you know that's how you get seated like if you if you if you won your if if you're at the top of the playoffs over in America you have your home advantage for it in game seven you've got you in your provincial your next game gives more value to the provincials as well like on that chat. Yeah I think there's they can they can tweak something there but they have the new system is better because the the the the four groups I think there was just them last two games there's some of them there's no jeopardy on them at all and you know they're a waste of time so no they have they they've definitely made a great championship and you know the the new the new game is is pretty is there any rule you'd change as a coach now or introduce or take it I I would take away the 2.3 free I don't I don't like the 2.3 I think it's too easy. I think it's too easy to John Heslin agree or disagree with that? Well listen I I think it's just too easy for intercounty footballers to be kicking two point threes and then we live in a country that there's a gale force breeze every now we go on so I feel that a lot of the games now especially in the league when the bad weather comes and even look at you know the breeze maybe in Crow Park that it's a bit like it's a little like cat and mouse so the the mouse is getting getting so far ahead and the second half is can the cat catch them or not yeah and I think it's just taking away a wee bit maybe of you know it's just the teams coming up kicking a two point if it goes over the bar great if not we'll just press for the kick out and they're doing that over and I just don't always that Gaelic football so the the two point three would stop that I think again if you kick from two point play it it that's a great rule um but I there's there's wee maybe tweaks the solo one goal has helped the game speed up uh immensely and then if you want to chat a wee bit about the the indiscipline rules you know I think someone have you led to a uh a 50 yard advancement yeah very good by the same I did it in a challenge match at the start of the year and uh I was just no never again no if we mic'd you up during the game who are you talking to most is there someone up in the stand or your bench or are you checked no I'm not I'm not mic'd up at all um I have the two boys behind me and they're mic'd up um I see some managers are mic and some managers are not and it's kind of I I just don't think I could think straight of somebody rolling your head because I remember I was on the mic last year and I was roaring into it as a coach.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

So I was like how in under god could I deal with me rolling into it so do you kind of go I think this is happening or I'm not sure myself I'll go and ask the boys or do they call you over saying we think this is happening.

SPEAKER_08 43:13

Oh no no the the three of us as a management team and and then um we're just discussing between ourselves what we think are happening they'll come up with ideas and I'll agree with it or not and uh maybe I'll come up with ideas and I'll I'll pass it by them like it is it's a joint it's it's a live decision but again um it it it ends up with finally come to my decision. Is live stats a huge part of decision making in a game live in a game yeah yeah I think I think stats though also can be overthought as well I think you know your your two eyes are your best stats in my view you should know as a at that at this level who's playing well and who's not or what's going wrong or what's going right but yet you know there's there's a lot to be said so I could be playing Kernse there and Kernsey made a 45 touches or something like that. Like we look at Potty Clafford say last week against Dublin Potty Clufford at 71 Touches against Dublin last week, that shot probably should have been flagged early. We need to push out in this man because he's causing a lot of baller. About like maybe Donnie Gallon All Ireland final last year. You know, Jim obviously looked at that this year and pushed out in him then in the championship this year. But during the game, that has to be probably seen a wee bit earlier. Like you know, and I I think we we we would have said as a manager team, we got a lot right this year, we got a few things wrong, but you're you know, you're on about that caving game. We were six points down half time. I just said let's put on all the forwards, let's put on all the shooters and just have a go. Because I'd rather get beat by 20 points on and we had two two-pointers got within about two minutes, and we're back in the game. And I'm like, right? Um yes, listen, we don't. No Dexter that night, so you were like no no no no.

SPEAKER_04 44:43

With regard to keeping it fresh in a management system, I mean, like it's drills and training and drills and training. Like, do you have anything quirky that every so often you do? John Kiley said he would get make sure the ice cream van pulls in at the end of training, the local ice cream van, and he's in control, he does a lot with music, and then he said, Do you do anything like that that keeps like a bit of fun or a bit of quirky?

SPEAKER_08 44:59

Yeah, you you you need a bit of crack. You definitely do need a bit of crack and it's coming up with different ideas. I do a lot through uh video, so I would I remember um I I I we we we started Jack Duncan. Uh Jack Duncan was a young lad, he was just out of under 20 last year. We actually started him in the Leinster final and named him, and I think everybody during the week then thought maybe Hesling was going to start instead of him, but he was down to start. But I knew he was kind of a nervous out character, so on the Thursday night I I'd seen people was wishing people well online and stuff like that. But Jack Duncan's picture was like, I don't know, I can't see this, but his face is all over the shop. So I zoomed into it, and I just said before the meeting, I just had it up. So just lads, um, just before we start here, and I just tended to break the ice, and you're throwing that up, and the fucking the the place just erupted in laughter, hey, and and then during the meeting, then we just go flip back flip black at every time. Just wee things like that, you have to keep a bit of crack. And um I would join and training a wee bit, like you know, I was gonna say uh I would join and training a wee bit there just to be a good thing. That's just probably chuckling, was it? Just to annoy people like more than anything. To annoy them, okay. I would just get stuck in them and say, You're useless like that. Hey, you know, I'll go on and kick a pint or two, and I say, Come on, you can't mark a 35-year-old. What the hell are you gonna be playing for USB? It's just to rag them a wee bit, but um no, you you need a bit of fun. You do need a bit of fun, and you need a bit of you know, after every game this year, you know, you know, if we had a two-week break, the boys will let you know go out and enjoy each other's company and have a pint or two, because when you're up there, you need to come down, and um that's all part and parcel of it. So any week works, no, but you know, I'd be learning, learning all the time, and as I said, this is my first year in management, so you'd you'd take wee things today. Like I'd I had a I had a coffee with Shamey Coleman today. Like if you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 46:34

I was gonna say, yeah, I was gonna say you use this as a motivation to win the Lindsay title, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 46:38

He I well he even opened even my eyes today to even leadership and and management, I suppose, within the professional sport. Um and Shamey, listen, he's from Killy Beggs' home, but uh my sender back, Shane Allen, he is a massive um Everton and an Everton fan. And um I had a photo with Shamey away back, and he says, I can't believe you could meet him, you know. And I says, Well you know, he lives down the road there from us, you know, he'd be about. He says, If he's ever about you, let me know, and I'm gonna drive to Killy Killy Beggs or Kilkiara just to see you would have bump into him. So this was a day or two before the Leinster final. I said, You know what? You won Leinster for me, and I'll make sure you meet Shamey Holmes. And he says, Don't tell me that, I don't care about the medal, I'll put more putting more pressure on myself. So he went away and won it, and actually it happened today. I shame I knew Shamey was home, so I just reached out to see and we had a coffee for two boys came up. Um uh Johnny Egan, actually, who I played with college with in football in Slight and Galway as well. He um he came up as well, so we had a good coffee, so the boys weren't home happy with their Everton shorts. You need to keep the players happy as well, don't you? Ah, you do, and that that's that that's it, that's part of it, that's part of man management, just we things like that. And I was like down Mullingar last week, I was golfing with the boys, and you just have to, you know, I suppose I don't think I'm part of it. I'm part of it. I'm only young and you know, they're taking the piss out of me, and I know for a fact if I went uh you know golfing along with some of my managers away in the back, I don't think I'd be taking the piss out of them, but maybe that works. I I'm not sure, but yeah, what you know, we'll keep it going that way.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

And just before

Donegal 2012

SPEAKER_04 48:01

we roll into the halftime break, uh just come back to obviously 2012. Take us, give us a little insight into being in the the bubble of Jim McGuinness. What was the strictness like? The rules? Did you ever break any of the rules? Um I was in here a few Sunday nights at the most. That didn't help. Um like the training, I mean he was just synonymous with his like intense fitness.

SPEAKER_08 48:21

I suppose I I enjoyed the training so much because I probably was one I was the fittest man at training. I I kind of built it. I I always I always say I built my fitness through sheep, running after sheep up a hill with a big hill up the back of our house, and you know, my grandfather got arrested, and we we used to be you know, every morning coming down, go up and count the MEOs, go up and feed the MEOs, and we had to run after them like and um you know, subconsciously, whatever you're doing, that and you just built a fitness up within your body, and that was the that was my strength of my game. There's no point saying I wasn't big, I wasn't I wasn't strong, I was I was fast enough, but fitness was my game that I could go all day long, and um uh I suppose during the training, I was always the man out in front. I I would have always felt for the older lads that was doing the training and looking back at them, but um I would say they hated me to be fair. I'd say they hated me nearly the trainer because they were like, look at that.

SPEAKER_06 49:11

I suppose that that that year, like if you're thinking back to it, that was the sweeper role really came into the GA from Jim and from Rory on that side of things, and I suppose you were earmarked with that role. Is it something you thrived on? Did you know from a long way out you were going to be doing it, and did you mind doing it? In other words, like because you handled so much ball throughout the year, like either taking it off Big Papa or taking it off the full back line and breaking a line, was it something that you thrived on yourself?

SPEAKER_08 49:41

Yeah, I suppose listen, the role itself required a bit of maybe you know, uh smartness and brains just to know where to be at every given time. And I think through training and through uh knowledge of football, I think that's where it kind of worked for me. Now the sweeper right now in today's game, well, whatever today's game, but even they're gone, it it was nullified because people had stopped kicking the ball. Like I would have always said we played 2011, like that terrible game, that terrible semi-final 8-6. Yeah, Arsenal actually scored more goals after he gets more games.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

What did you think playing that game? Did you think this is working? What we want you were.

SPEAKER_08 50:19

And you know what? We should have won the game. Don't care. We we were down to we were they were down to 14 men. J. McConnell got sent off. I think McFadden was through and he put the ball over the bar and it could have been a goal. But all they did back then was kick the ball. Yeah. And they just kicked it to me. Yeah. You know, and they they they but you were fit enough and fast enough to get across the room. I know, I know, but you know, they were at when you look back now, it was it was silly kicking the ball down to a 2v1. Yeah, where I think the the two the 2014 game basically changed football, in my view. I think Donegal beat Dublin that day comfortably by doing what they did, and then Jim Gowins says, Well, we're gonna stop this. And they just went to a possession-based football, and since that that's what it's been, it's been a possession game for base football, and even today's game you know, there's not as much kicking. There's a wee bit of kicking maybe off first phase off of a goal kick or something like that, but when it slowed down, there's no kicking because you're gonna work a score nowadays. Um it's possession base, you know, and uh football has turned into that. The only way I can see them going away from that is going to something like uh a shot clock or something like that, maybe or no back court or something like that. Or no back court, yeah. No back court, you'll be able to press it. But again, even at no back court, it's 11v11. We we were we were breaking down 14v14 for years and we still did it, so 11v11 is easy. So I think it's I think it's at 75% now. If you have the ball in hand, you're gonna get a shot. So it's up to the defence then to accept that and try to put as much pressure on the ball or put you on your weak front as possible. Uh to you know, to not be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

The week of the All Ireland itself, like for you that was the first time in it. What was that like? Were you a bag of nerves? Were you excited? Didn't bother you.

SPEAKER_08 51:53

I think I think I think it's well known, you get you get more nervous the older you get. Um and when you're a young cub, I think you think it's gonna happen all the time, and you you just you're you're rolling with the punches. I was not like the the difference in me walking into an All Ireland final in 2012 and walking into a county final in 2017 was night and day. I was so nervous of the county final, and I think I mind the night before I was rimming with Patrick McBurdy, I think, and uh we were watching up for the match and we were we were buzzing, we were we were chatting away the two of us. It was just another game, yeah. And uh I loved I loved it all. Like I did, I I really loved it all, but I think the lot the longer you got in life, the more nervous you got. Like you know, I would get nervous even before games uh as manager now. Like um I was so nervous this year going down to Longford. We had just said come off that back of the Wexford game. There was a challenge match in between the Wexford game and the Longford game against Romana. That was a bad, bad game for us, and I was questioning everything coming home that day. But um Dexter. I don't know did he go on that day, but uh I don't know did he go on that day, but uh so I was nervous, I was like, there's a there's maybe a bit here we could lose this match. No, we won and we won very comfortably. Um I think Longford actually just before the game pulled three or four of their best players, so I said, you know, it just it happened. But that that you know the nerves I I I do, I'm a I'm a nervous person, so I I do think the longer I do this I'll get more used to it. Yeah, but um for right now I'll still I'll still go on as a bundle. You're the star store team. I'm very nervous up here now than I can do it.

SPEAKER_06 53:29

You just you're the star sort of a team with only golf that year that you won that iron. Obviously, the household names, the likes of Lacey and Kavanaugh and Murphy, and obviously yourself win the all-star and stuff like that. But was there any unsung hero that isn't in the limelight as much as he probably should have been, or was he a leader in the dressing room or a quiet man, you know, off the pitch kind of, but just kept you all together?

SPEAKER_08 53:49

You know, you you say it's a star-studded dressing room, and you know, looking back now it was, but before that it wasn't. And you're never a star-studded dressing room until you actually won something. You know, that's that's what I've always said. Like, if that team never won the line, you wouldn't look back, and that team was saying they were star-studded, but just because they won it, and that's um and and that's and that's the view for them. Like, to be fair to the R Westme team, like they might have been nobody would have known who they were, yeah, but they were the same players they are right now, but now they're now they're a great team. Because just because you won. Um listen, Patty McGrath was always the man for me uh that probably went under the radar. The way he trained, uh, the way he trained the the intensity he trained. He's just a lovely, lovely lad. I used to travel up and down. I was in Galway uh for two years before I came here, and uh McGuinness had to get me out of Galway, but he didn't realise Sligo was worse for me. He didn't just realise that, but uh I used to travel up and down, and he's just he was a gentleman off the field, but you see when he crossed that he was an animal, you know. And uh I remember there's like we we used to do this drill at training, um it's kind of a you know a thickness drill more than anything. So Jim had asked for you, you're getting to partners, and I'd be like, mean you'd be a partner, and I would get uh on top of you, and you for I have to do everything to try to keep you down the ground, and you to do everything, and I mean anything like at wrestling, proper wrestling to keep you down the ground, and I end up pairing up with him. Well, I'm not lying to you, unless Jim again, I could still be there today, and I still wouldn't not be up with that ground at home. He was like a freaking house on top of me, and he had the shoe shoulders down, and I just looked him, Patty, just let me up, please. Please let me up, Patty. And he wouldn't, but um, like he had your back. And I suppose I had their back. Um, I was their sweeper, they were the full back lane, and I was doing everything to protect them, and that was my job. You know, I even hear him McGee speaking there a wee bit about stuff. He says, you know, he never did ask Mark McHugh where to be, I was there, and uh that was just part of the way we suppose we worked in that wee unit of four, the balls kicked in, they'd get a hand, and I pick her up, yeah, you know, and then Pap Bob was the kind of the man behind it. But yeah, Patty was the man that maybe would have gone under, but he was a phenomenal footballer. We actually we we play each other in the championship now in two weeks' time, and he's still probably the best player for our draft. You know, that's that's where he's at.

SPEAKER_04 55:59

Who was the who was the biggest messer in the Dunny Gold team? As then, you know, they took their job right, but they were the best cracker on the place, sir.

SPEAKER_08 56:05

That's probably one of the McGee's, isn't it? I uh I'm really not surprised. I I listen, the it it is it was a good again. I I'm not saying I I probably was so young, like there at that stage. I think the older you get, the further down the back of the bus you get. So when you come in first, you're up the front, you you you're not privileged enough to nearly go down and play cards with the big boys down the back, and then the older you get, the further down the back of the bus you get, and the newer lads come in. So even at that stage, I was I said it was nearly me and McBardy. We were the young lads, Brick Malloy was in, Leo McClune, even Murphy. We'd come in from that on the 20 squad maybe two years previous. Um but uh listen, we we we got on. Ummy McKinley and uh even I think the year before who was he was up here at Sligo Rovers why Jason knocked her. They were they were good crack, they were good crack when we then were let loose. But sure when we were all let loose, we were good crack.

SPEAKER_04 56:59

And you said you were watching up for the match the night before the alert. Yeah, I would have thought now you'd be like, don't be watching Anathon in the middle.

SPEAKER_08 57:05

Well, you're probably supposed to not watch it to be fair, but we were in no t we were in a kind of a Shelley and Johnson House in the night, and now he's like, we need a few hours here to find and and social media wasn't that big back then, like so. It's not that you would like oh yeah, and I think my mum and dad was on it. Actually, um dad was on up for the match, so I said I'll turn this on for a while.

SPEAKER_04 57:21

It didn't make any heat at all. And like even now or then, would you like now? Like, do you listen to podcasts or read papers, watch the Sunday game and go, Oh, geez, I did get that wrong. Do you ever learn from something you're getting?

SPEAKER_08 57:32

No, no, no, yeah, you would. Um yeah, yeah. And listen, you have to look at you have to look at them again. You know, to be fair to Westmead, we're still a division three team, so there's not that much spotlight on you around. So, but yes, you you listen to it, and is there something you picked up and you're like, maybe did I see that game wrong or whatever like that? But um I'm actually on the Sunday game and Sunday night, so maybe I can I can This is just a warm up. This is a warm up to the big night for the last one.

SPEAKER_07 57:56

This is the big night, this is the big night.

SPEAKER_04 57:58

Final question of this half. Uh you know, when you win something uh like you've you've done the All Ireland and now as a manager, is it more relief or more joy?

SPEAKER_08 58:08

It's joy, it's joy. I think the longer again it goes on, I want about that county final of 2017. That was the only thing that was the blub on my CV usually. I've won everything else. But I that was a relief to won that one. But I think it you know this year it wasn't a relief to won Leinster, it was a pure joy of it and what what no one wanted has done for you gotta enjoy the wins, haven't you?

SPEAKER_06 58:30

Uh huh. You have to enjoy the wins.

SPEAKER_08 58:31

Oh, you have 100%, you have to enjoy it. But um the relief would be the Longford game. That's that's the ones I suppose it's it's game by game. The Longford one is the only one really pressure on us, I suppose, because you're expected to win it. Then you're gonna meet, Calair, Dublin. Like it was a tough Leintester to won when you look back on it, like for a division three team. Um but it's just the joy. And I suppose what what really just annoyed, and not saying annoyed me, but disappointed me is I I let them off till the Tuesday, and they could have the crack in the Tuesday, but we were back at it the Wednesday, where you would just say you'd love to do the week with it and enjoy each other's company, but it's it's it wasn't the last competition of the year, and you had to get back to it, and we had a big game against Kavan, and now when we finished, it was like it's just done because it was so far away. You know, that's the only thing now. We we'd have a night or two to get our medals and we'll celebrate that and we may get a trip away or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 59:24

Imagine the Johnny Gall celebrations were slightly longer.

SPEAKER_08 59:26

It was about two years. About two years, eh? A lot of them was done off here as well.

SPEAKER_04 59:31

So okay, listen, we'll we'll give everyone a little pause here. We're going to be having a pause for about 15 minutes if you want to get a drink, or those at home watching want to get a cup of tea. And we have some uh little clips we're gonna play to the viewers at home there with Michael Moyles, Alan Costell, all there from Australia, and Shawnee Yack down there in Roscammon. They're giving their view on the All Ireland final and players of the year on that. And uh we'll be back here after the break. Thanks again to Mark McHugh, the first half.

Michael Moyles, Alan Costello, Sean McDermott Predictions.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

Hi all. Um, thanks to Brendan and to Darren for asking me to give my opinion on the upcoming All-Irland final. Uh the first question they asked was who I think is going to win the All Ireland. Not very, very straightforward. Look, we can see past Kerry. Um, the power, the tactical awareness they have, what they did to Donegal last year, like they're just an awesome team. Um, so it's hard to see past them. In Mayo's favour, I think we have momentum. Um, I think the management team has done well. I think the change point was probably Ross Carmen, where they learned the older players maybe didn't have as much to give as some of the younger players, and the younger players have less baggage. Our fore line is awesome. You have the effect of the new manager, we had it with John Mohan in 96, Mickey Mourn in 2006, uh Stephen Roshwood in 2016, and now Andy in 2026. So every 10 years on the six, we seem to get to an all-in-final. And we're looking for the result to be a bit different. In 1996, John Mohan came very close, went to a replay, um, six or seven points up in both games, and still ended up losing. So you've got the effect of a new management on the bounce that you get with that. Um brilliant young players that have no baggage and an awesome forward line. Um so yeah, Mayor in with a chance, but I think the start is is the big thing. If they're in the game at half time, um Kerry tend to do that. They can go very strong and try to put games to bed in all of the finals in the first half. So Mayo have to be very aware of that. And I could just go at them. So I gave up Kerry probably the nod, but just about, but I think if Mayor in the game at halftime, they may cause some issues for Kerry. Um the young player of the year was the next question that was asked. Uh, very quickly, for me, Lau, the two contenders, uh, James McGuire and Darren McDonald. James McGuire, very rangey, good scores. Darren McDonald for me was awesome at six. Even when Lau were poor against Mayo, he was the one that stood up. I thought he was excellent, uh, a brilliant player. Uh for Dublin, Charlie McMuiro was very good, played six to in the league, went to wing back. I thought he was exceptional. Um for Mayo at three for me, of course. Um you've got the Kobe effect. Now, Kobe has been very good, he's got that X factor, he gets the crowd onto their feet. I think Darrell Byrne is ahead of him in the selection process. I think Darrell Byrne, since he started his first game against Monaghan, has been awesome. He's got some very, very good scores. Uh doesn't get a lot of the headlines, but deserves them. And for me, my player of the year, young player of the year for us to pick it, and Kernsey will love this one, is uh Jack Kevinston. Uh started against Monahan 10-11 awesome saves that day. I was doing co-commentary or analysis on a local radio station, and I just thought he was awesome. And even since then, he's come up with massive, massive saves, and I know the goalkeepers in the room will appreciate what he's done. Not so much against Lowe, but before that, even to get him to that stage. So I think he's going to have a big final, and I think he should be in the conversation for a young player of the year as well. And he will be my pick, senior player of the year. Um past David Clifford. If he's a good final, I think it comes down to him and Rhino Dunhu. I think Rhino Dunhu is being brilliant. And again, when we talk about touch moments just before halftime against Monan, kicked a massive, massive two-pointer, took them 11 points up to one the morning game by a point. You know, the whole season changes if they lose that game, they're going to a different side of the pot. Um, he's just been that leader for the young forwards in the Mayo forward line. Um, he's been brilliant when I was on there, and he has been for the last couple of seasons, but I think he's really stepped up another notch this year. So I think it'll probably come down to himself and David Clifford uh how the final goes to see who gets player of the year. An honourable mention, I suppose, Connick Allen, um Niles Gully from Dullan. Connok Allen's been on one leg, been awesome. Niles Gully and Dylan Gainey from Kerry, who's been very, very good as well. Uh, hope you all have a brilliant night. Thanks again to the two boys. Um, really enjoying the podcast, and hopefully we see you all soon. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Lads, how are you doing? Uh, first of all, thanks for asking me to come on to give my thoughts on the uh weekend's proceedings. So listen, I'll I'll kick straight into it. Um, the All Iron final, Kerry versus Mio. Look really looking forward, it should be a cracking game. Uh, I guess prior to the semi-finals, I would have said I expected Kerry to win the final by maybe 10 plus points. But after watching the two semi-finals, I think Mu were extremely impressive against Loud, so I give them a much uh better chance. They're still going to be up against it, it's gonna be one or lots in the middle third of the field, whoever gets on the most ball. I think Kerry are slightly stronger there, both forwards. I hope will light up Crow Park on Sunday, but I'm expecting Kerry to win it by three plus points, but I give Meo a massive shout, and hopefully they can do it because it'll be great for the town of the dream here and great for Connor football to see them win it. Um Player of the Year, okay. Young player of the year, there's probably five lads up for it. You have Charlie McMurror from Dublin, you have the two Mayo lads, Colby, obviously, and Darrell Byrne. Um also Darren McDonnell from Loud, and I would also um mention Matthew Whitaker from Westmead and that. So they're the five lads that I think will be up for Young Player of the Year. Um, who gets it? Hard call. I have a feeling Colby might get it. He's had a great year, uh great find from you all. Just a pity that he's he's not staying around for them, but listen, who knows? They might they might they might uh swing something there too. Um and footballer of the year, it's definitely down to two lads, it's down to David Clifford and Ryan O'Dunhu. Um shooting the lights up this year, both of them. Clifford has, I think, six goals and I'm not sure 40 something points, and Ryan has two goals and 50, I think it's 51 points. So phenomenal shooting. Um again, who gets it? It'll all come down to someday. So it's definitely between the two of them. Uh last but not least, Carnesy asked me for a funny story about any of the boys, Andy obviously, uh Boiler or Dart. Uh funny story to listen. For four years in Sligo IT, we had we had we had some great days and plenty of stories. A lot you probably couldn't tell. Um you know, you couldn't um repeat. But anyway, uh a good story about Papa, the Stigleton weekend 2005 in Dundark. We were playing the semi against UCC, and uh UCC got a penalty that day. Pat McCanini was ref in the game, and uh Dirks put off a massive stay from the penalty. And um the final then the next day we were playing uh I think it was Queen's, yeah, it was Queen's University, and again, penalty given away with minutes to go. Actually, I give it away, so I have to hold my hand up for that one. But anyway, give away the penalty, and again, Pat McAnini was ref in the game, and Papa pulls off an unbelievable save, and as he pulls off the save, he jumps up to his feet and he jumps into Pat McAnini's states and he goes, The big dog does it again. So I'll never forget that. It was uh it was a great, great moment. Um, good story about Papa. But again, yeah, that's it, lads. Um, just while I have a chance, um, I'd like to wish Andy, Boiler, and Papa all the best uh on Sunday. I hope they get the job done, it'll be great for iconic football. And to you both, lads, continued success with the podcast. I'm really enjoying it. Take care.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:03

Well, chaps, um, thanks for asking me to join. Hope the night's going well. Um, who wins the All Ireland? Um, my heart says Mayo, my head says Kerry. Um, I think Kerry will just have too much experience. Um, it's been a great year for Andy and the boys. Um, having lived with Andy in college and played Sigerson and football with um Andy Boiler, Papa and Keith, I'd love to see them do it. Um it might just be a year too early, but um yeah, I uh I'm hoping Mayo, but I think Kerry win the other end. Football of the year so far, I think it has to be covered, even though he may only, you know, five out of ten boys for some people after score, you know, one five, one six it just shows how how you know generational of a talent that he actually is. And young footballer of the year, as of now, I think you've got the two boys for Mayo. I think Kobe and Byrne. Like if Kobe isn't there, Byrne probably wins it. But I think just Kobe because of the magic that he brings. Um so that's it, boys. Um for Sam.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:05

Welcome back to the second half of our All Ireland preview night. Let's hear you! Yeah, I'll just before we get into the second half, we're we're we're gonna uh Darren's gonna ask uh Mark a few rapid fire questions and then we're gonna get into the big final preview. Go, Mark.

Rapid Fire Fun with Mark

SPEAKER_04 1:08:20

I'll go, Darren.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:21

Okay. Uh best teammate.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:25

I just because he's been with me all right in the queue, actually. Yeah. That's fair, that's fair. Toughest opponent? Carolese. Biggest joker. Neil McGee. Worst singer. Oh, all of them. Um I I I'll take it with me. You know what? Jamie Gunnard. Worst addressed.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:54

Robbie Ford. Favorite ground to play in. The most underrated footballer.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:03

Oh, underrated footballer from Donegal. Um I spoke earlier on about Patty McGrath. Not that he's underrated, but I suppose um. Yeah. Yeah, go on, sorry, quick fan. Yeah, Patty McGrath. Thanks there to the producer, A Moment. Well, well spotted.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:24

Uh, one player you'd steal for today. Oh, David Clafford. And one football rule you'd change. I think we touched on that, didn't we? Yeah. Yeah, I just changed that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:34

Change that. Okay, before we kick in the second half, Kieran McGinley, uh, your club mates has said, Let's golf more training. He said so. Kieran McGinley said, Let's golf, you know, more training.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:42

Come on, we'll get Kieran in the golf course. He might pick up that book.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:45

But again, if you just joined us online, we're here in the village in Incarter. If you're looking for parties, it's the place to go. Thanks to Brian and Pixar Productions. Do you know the live broadcast? The White Hague provided us with lovely beer for the night here, and EJ's mens were in town and online. They've a 20% off sale, by the way, as well. They told me to mention that. And now let's get into the big match. I'm going to ask the two lads a couple of questions each as we go along, and we'll see how rowdy the Mayo fans are tuned again. And the Kerry fans are tuning up. It's tied at tight. Okay, so I'll go to Mark

All Ireland Preview

SPEAKER_04 1:10:16

first. I want the two V. Well, you give me three reasons Kerry could lose, and three reasons why Mayo could lose.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:22

Three reasons Kerry could lose.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:24

Could lose, yeah. What's what do you think could happen and go around?

SPEAKER_08 1:10:25

We're playing Mayo, that's definitely one of them. As I said to Darren there, it says the the way the way the new game has gone, everybody has a chance. There's there's like we would you call Wetcloth is going to won the title cup two weeks ago against Darren at half-time. It's just there's no control over the game of football nowadays, which is great. And um, as I said, Mayo have a better chance than Dunegall or Sligo, put it like that, because they're there. Um another reason is their full forward line. Mayo's full forward line. Um, I think they could take fire, they scored two two set 215 the last day between the three of them. So if they hit for him again and score 215-216, they're going to be within a shot. And uh the third reason is uh that Mayo that that Kerry could lose is um if David put him on the spot. If David Clifford goes off after five minutes for an injury or something like that, that that that could be a three Darren, you tell us your three reasons Kerry could lose.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:18

If Mayo takes solace from what the dub's done just before and after half time with the kick out, okay. Um again, not if Clifford is gone off after five minutes if Clifford doesn't take the pitch at all. If somebody from Mayo kidnapped him, maybe. And uh which is possible, but very possible. But nothing past the Mayo, people. And also, I would say Kobe Byrne and obviously the pocket rocket himself, or don't know who no, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:48

And why could Mayo lose? Three reasons each. Clefford, Clifford, Clifford.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:54

I know there's only two in the one even just the one. Uh no, no, listen, we we we know how good he is. Um I think all the numbers that that are being positive, it they're all they all favour Kerry. No, they're not uh but Kerry's kick out has been extraordinary all year, and that would give them possession of the ball, which ultimately leads to scores. Um Cluford being definitely another one, and then the high press that um the Kerry will put on Mayo's kick outs. I I think they only got 42% of their kick outs against Louth. Yeah, and then I'm looking back on even the last year's All-Ireland final, Kerry did a job in Donegal's kick outs, they really they really honed on to them. And I I I see similarities between last year for Donegal and this year for Mayo, unfortunately, because I think they've got an easier passage through where Donegal last year found it easy going through quarterfinal, semi-final, and then they were met by a rocket in that first 20 minutes against Kerry. And I'm just a wee bit worried that the same thing could happen, that they're they're at a different level than anybody else. Now I know it wouldn't have looked like that against Dublin, but um Mayo probably had an easy enough semi-final with the two loud midfielders missing. So um, yeah, that's what I'd be thinking.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:08

So, Darren, your Mayo friends will love to hear this now. Yeah, look at I suppose inexperience maybe on the big day. Um it's and look at it, could go in their favour also because they have no baggage a lot of that team. Um obviously, look at the main threat, the goat himself up in the top right hand corner trying to nullify his presence on the pitch. So if they don't do that, and then if they do do that by double marking him or triple marking, then you have the big brother on the 40, then, which if they let him do what he done against the dubs the last day, and what Donny Gaulle done in the Iron Final last year by letting him have a free run at Crow Park, then it could be to their detriment.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:47

So May Mayo's inside forward line have scored 236 in the last two games, Carries have scored 229. Uh so I wondered which which of those forward lines you think are going to score more? And I have read a great stat as well this week. Uh Morris Brosnan had it. Uh, in in this year, David Clifford has scored 91 points from playing the year, league and everything, and no one else has passed 50 points. So, putting all that into consideration, which forward line will score the most?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:11

Not necessarily win the game, but look at I and just for Sunday, I would probably lean towards Mayo's inside forward line doing the scoring because I can't see where Mayo are going to be heavily scoring from the other players on the pitch. Whereas if Kerry have the full forward line, obviously Clifford could rack up 7-8, 1-5, 1-6, whatever he may do, but then you might nullify the presence of the other two full forward and corner forward. But for I'd say 75 to 80% of Mayo's scores on Sunday will probably come from that full forward line.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:41

Yeah, I I was looking on it today. None of the Mayo's defenders or midfielders scored against Louth. And I I do think if Mayo are going to challenge, they will need a huge return from that full forward line. Now, however, I do think they're going to be well marshalled. Like Jason Foley is we're on about underrated players there. Like he is one of the underrated players in Ireland. I know he got an all-star last year, but like he takes out the best man of the opposition.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:06

Yeah, when he was on to Connick Allen the last two.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:08

He got on to Connick Allen, Connor Kallen did nothing. Like, you know, he took Murphy out of the game last year in the Ireland final. You know, he is always tasked with these big jobs, so he's going to be put on Ryan O'Donahu, I imagine. Um, and then it depends who who who who they go with on Kobe. Um, but yeah, I'd probably lean towards yeah, there's more scores around the field for Kerry than there is um in their full forward line. Um if you keep David Clifford to one, five, six points, you are doing a serious, serious job, you know. Um like go back to last year's all-arnight final. He touched the ball, somebody says, for a uh a total like some seconds, and he scored whatever, eight points or something. Like he's just he's he's he's he's mad.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:48

So that leads on lovely into my next question, Mark. If Westmead are playing Kerry on Sunday, what would you do to nullify David Clifford? Sheila from Kerry's laughing here, huh? The confidence, yeah. Um did Dublin kind of get it right, where they kind of they they they double the trouble.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:06

They double the triple mark them, and I think that's what you have to do, and that's going to be funny to see what Mayo do because ultimately Mayo has been a very, very man and man team all year long, and they've backed themselves with man and man, and to be fair, that's what they love. They love man and man pressing high up the field. If they go man and man all over the field and leave the likes of Potty Cleftford, David Clifford to 1v1s. I think we've seen it against Tyrone last year, actually, in this in this quarter final, they will just take off. So I'm worried about that. Dublin got it right. The only thing Dublin didn't get right is pushed a wee bit more out in Potty Clifford. Uh and I suppose Dunning Gall got it slightly right too, in a sense, at different stages throughout the year, that they might have left a Graymo Sullivan free, or they might have left a Mike Breen free from centre or back and just doubled up on the rest. And that's what you'd have to do. You'd have to put a man on him and then just hope you keep him to six or ten points. And if you keep her to six or seven points, uh, you you'll you you you you have a chance. That's all I would say.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:56

You'd have a chance. So for both of you, uh, who's Kerry's hidden gem and Mayo's hidden gem that people aren't really highlighting?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:02

Well, I suppose Marcus touched on Jason Foley because like what he is doing, you know, it goes under the radar a good bit because he's not handling an awful lot of ball, because he's not handling an awful lot of ball because he doesn't need to, because he's stopping the bigger players on the opposition from getting it. Now he's also a serious opposite for short kick outside if he gets all on the mattoo. Yeah, yeah. Like I would, but I would say he is probably the unsung hero for Kerry at the moment. But they probably have unsung heroes all over the pitch because you have one man in the top corner getting all the plaudits, and obviously, I suppose Shawnee O'Shea came back into the fold the last year for his first game of the year. He ended up kicking four points. Now, they probably have a decision to make on Sunday with their team captain Paul Geaney. I think he came out in the press and said he was fit for Sunday himself. So um Jack O'Connor has a decision to make there because obviously Shawnee O'Shea, I think you have to play him. So then the decision has to be made. Does he have to drop one of the four around the middle third to get Geaney back into the team? Or does Dylan Geaney lose out to get Paul back in the field? Look at seven doesn't go into six no matter what way you look at it, like you know. So your hidden gem and Mayo hidden gem for Mayo Heshin.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:21

Heshen, yeah, he's a good footballer. He seems to have been like a great attacking at times, but then brilliant. Yeah, well, I'd say he doesn't get the plaudits as much as I'm gonna be.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:29

I would I would say from looking at what he's after doing the last couple of games, like he tagged Mulroy the last day. Now I think Mulroy was probably carrying a bit of a knock. The same day I know that he came out heavily strapped on the calf after halftime, but like he got on no ball. And for the game before that, Mulroy was back in the full backline getting ball. He was sweeping up, he was doing a lot of damage. And we had said before that if Mulroy gets the ball in the hand, then it can be game over for other opposition. I think it's pretty similar for Sunday. If Potty gets the ball in the hand, if he touches the ball the same as he did in the Ireland final or same as he did against the dubs the last 70, 80 odd times, then it's game over. So I can imagine Heshen is going to tag him. He's like a kid that relishes the task of marking the big players and give me that role and let me thrive on it, you know. Who's got the better bench?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:18

Um nice reaction in the crowd there.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:21

Yeah, I I I feel probably Kerry still have the better bench. I I know Mayo's bench is a lot of their older statements. Yeah, you know, you're looking at German O'Connor, you're looking at Killian O'Connor, Aiden O'Shea, uh Matthew O'Ran's in there, uh, you know, Loftus. Tommy Connery's an exciting player if he's the best. Would you start him? Uh no, probably not. Not not the way they've been playing with the easy again lose the impact off the bench. The impact is huge in this modern day, and there is teams holding their better players now because ultimately you'll look at most games, 95% of games this year, every team's in it at 50 minutes, you know. So you're you're taking on a stronger player to finish the job, and I suppose listen, maybe that's where Donny Gaulle fell down this year, that they didn't have that impact off the bench, maybe that that that that they had in other years. Um, you're on a bit hitting gems there um for Kerry, and I I have to give him huge credit. Like, you know, Murphy going in this year, everybody Shane Ryan was coming off the back of a of an all-star year. Everybody's saying Kerry's not gonna win the lion without without him. And he took up he took a wee bit of slack throughout the league the league, Shane Murphy. He's developed himself into a top top keeper, topic player of the year, essentially, if he's a big he's if he if he wants, he's definitely going to be the all-star keeper. Like he is going like he is getting balls away, he's chipping out right and left foot. You know, we did we'd chat off the line there. Like the goalkeeper is the most important position in the field.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:40

And was that Darren telling you that now? Is it? No, I was telling Darren that's actually, and it is.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:45

I like no I've no quarters of saying it, yeah. But uh it is the most position uh important position in the field because that's the way to get their ball in the hands. But um I just think looking at stats, and again, that's not what we said earlier on, it's not working the stats, but Kerry's stats on kick outs are at 70, you know, about 70%, and Mayo's are down to about 45. And I think that could be the that could be the the win and the losing of the game this weekend. So Kerry's going to have the ball in the hand a lot more. And and against Louth, I think Kerry scored 2.14. Or not Kerry, sorry, Mayo scored 2.14 off um the Louth turnover.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:19

Yep, 11 missed place passes.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:21

Kerry's not going to give them turnovers to Mayo. They're just not, no matter how good of a press is, they're they're too good a footballers to give away the ball that much.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:28

Like, is there a fear? Like, if it ends up, say Mayo lose by 5, 6, 7, 8, you know, get well bet on Sunday. Will we say they weren't road tested at all? They played 14-man Mead, Corkhood weren't well. I brought Chris Hoge Jones was on a podcast this morning, Smaller Fish, and he said he said that was as bad as we played all year. And then Loud, you know, as you say, just gave away the ball unmarked.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:48

And then we lost the two midfielders before the game. Yeah. The one suspended. Uh yeah, you will say it, and I think everybody said it about Donegal last year that they weren't road tested enough, and Kerry went through a very, very tough time of last year. It was uh Tyrone. There was Arma first in the quarterfinal, then Tyrone in the semifinal, and Donegal. Like that is as tough as you're going to get.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:06

This year they've they whipped Armah. They had a great test against Tyrone and Dublin at their peak. Exactly.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:11

So, yes, and for years it was usually Kerry that came through the other side was without being roadested. And you will. That's the first thing you'll say. If I'm on the Sunday game on Sunday night, I'll probably say it after the fact.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:21

You have to have two answers.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:23

After the fact. But you know, Mayo could still only beat the people that they had. I thought they struggled against Meath. I thought Mayo struggled against Meath, and I thought Bar one call before the sending off that I thought it was a free end, Paul Floon let it go, and then it ended up being sent off, then Mayo were bit. They were bait that day in Castlebar, and maybe you know people here will tell me differently.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:42

Like I'd say Mayo since that game have learned an awful lot because I think they give like the amount of goal chances they were giving away in games.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:49

They give away 11 against Monan. I studied the Mon in Mayo game because we were playing obviously Monin. They give away 11 goal chances that game.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:56

Which is huge, but I suppose over the last couple of games, and whether it be that Loud were poor or that Cork were poor, I think you can count on one hand the amount of goal chances they give up, which is a huge turn on point, like you have that like mentioned before, the likes of Eddie Boyle there. Keith Higgins is is working with them also, who was under 20 manager. Like there's two all-star defenders, plus you have Patty Talley, who is earmarked as some people call him a defensive coach. He's not really, he's a coach overall, but they've definitely tightened up with the defensive side of things, which you know they're obviously going to need on Sunday if they are going to be staying in the game with 10-15 minutes to go. Because if you give away goals against Kerry on Sunday and you're not converting Gents down the far end of the field, then it's lights out, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:39

I I I think you know, we always said Kerry as a Crow Park team, may all have done very well since they got to Crow Park this year, and they actually look more themselves in Crow Park than they did anywhere else. And I think because they probably kicked the ball in first phase, and there's a bit of off the cuff to them, and there's a bit of rawness. And I know you mentioned earlier on, and again, this is another hindsight question to get bait. Ah, they're young lads who just couldn't handle the occasion. But then if you know, we looked at Galway's young clubs last weekend that was just demolished against Limerick Hurlers. It's it's it's very easy to say, and it's all about who takes the occasion. Kerry does have that experience, and as I said, for the first 20-25 minutes last year, and that's what I'm going to be looking at, is they just demolished Donnie Gall. They demolished One Gaul, who were who you know who's been there and done that and is an experienced team. So a lot will be said in the first 25 minutes. And Mayo can get over that there well within a shot.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:30

I suppose Mayo probably in the first definitely in the first 10 minutes, they're going to go after them and going to try and unsettle them, and they're going to probably put six into the full forward line and make Kerry go long and see if they can win breaking ball. And that's where they've got to be hungry on it, then because if that ball goes over the top and Kerry get the ball in hand and Clifford ends up bagging one, do you know it could be a long day for Mayo, but if they get reward from it, which the dubs did get straight after halftime against Kerry the last day, then it's going they're going to keep at it. Now, Mayo hadn't been scoring an awful lot of goals in the championship until the last day when they rattled in three, they got two in the first half. Something similar is going to have to happen on Sunday. If you go back to your All Ireland when Mark, when you know Murphy obviously rattled the young bag early on the game, like it gives you a great starting point to get the game.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:18

Yeah, and I you're on about Morris Brosn earlier on. I read a stat during the week, he did a thing about Mayo, was in a lot of All Ireland finals, Mayo conceded goals very early. Very early, and that's probably been the detriment of them losing a lot of them finals. Um, you know, we look back on our one, we look back on I suppose the two OGs was another one, you know, with that that year, and then they they've conceded goals early and they need to be aware of that and they need to stay in the game, you know. And obviously, they're gonna have the crowd. Once the crowd get going, they're going to be behind them, but they just need to be in the game coming down, you know, with whatever start putting doubt into the city. Exactly. You know, and now it's not to say they're going to won because Kerry's that experienced, but um, yeah, they like they have energy, they have energy, and they've every chance, you know. Um Kerry, which have been decent, they haven't blown anybody out of the water this year.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:06

Like I was just gonna say, and I see our Mayo Barman there getting very worried. Cheer up the Mayo crew again now, but like so has Donegal, they beat Kerry, Armagh for a half, showed you how to do it. Tyrone and Dublin showed us how to do it against them. You could argue the thrown double games, people say there was rough decisions.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:24

If Kerry lose on Sunday, will we go, well, hold on a second, the signs were there.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:28

Yeah, to a certain extent, you probably are going to say that because obviously we don't know what's going to happen, and we're talking about like if you're talking about Kerry being an experienced team, if you look back to the team that played in the All-Ireland final last year, the majority of them is on it. Shane Ryan obviously is not playing, but Shane Murphy is coming in, and as mentioned, he's probably nailed on for an all-star. And you had the majority of the players playing. Jeremy O'Connor didn't play that day, but he's in, and he's another giant round the middle third. So they have all the experience coming down the path. And yes, they've Donny Gall obviously in the National League final gave them a bit of a trouncil. Down Killerney gave them a bit of a trounce. But we mentioned before that the jeopardy of losing them games is not huge. Like, obviously, and then you have the carrot of Jack O'Connor has never done back to back, so it's but it's very hard to do.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:19

Like bar the Dublin team, whatever about Jack O'Connor not doing back to back, like no other team bar of the Dublin team in the last what 30 years has done back to back, you know. So uh there's a pressure on them themselves to that, and it no matter what you do, again just being involved, it's just so hard to get that hunger for the second year run, and that's maybe why they've just lumped over the lines in them game. And 100% I agree that Dublin should have beat them. Dublin had them into the number. The problem is I don't think Mayo will play that way. I think you know they're and they back themselves to be fair to Mayo. They will back themselves in their game plan and they will go man and man now. They're gonna have to just give their their defence a wee bit of help.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:55

But uh what matchups do you think is gonna happen with the Mayo Mayo defending?

SPEAKER_08 1:28:00

I think Heshon's going to go and potty Clufford. I think that's that's probably a guarantee. You have to go with McHugh on him because of the physicality. You know, people say maybe Callanan to mark him. I I don't know. I think maybe McHugh and help, but a bit of help. That's the only way maybe to mark him. Then Dylan Gini's flying as well at you know the other end, and then if Paul Geeney does go in there too. Like you were on about Sean Ocean. Sean Ocean's been rusty.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:26

You know, he probably needed that game. Yeah, and you say Sean O'Shea definitely plays. I'm not sure because I think you know he would he's been rusty. Um and maybe he's just a man to come in, imagine the left heel give 20 minutes to go that he'll be able to kick kick kick a few scores. So um this team selection will be interesting, or maybe they'd they hold Gini, uh the whole Guinea to the end as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:47

So it's interesting you mentioned Sam Callan there, he pushed up on Craig Lennon the last day.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:51

So will he do something similar on Tierney's main man, Gavin White, up there, the wing.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:56

Gavin White and Graham Sullivan got a few points. So I think if you start marking everyone up all their forwards, you're like, oh, the lads will go down the back now. We're free.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:03

Like obviously, you have Stephen Cohn, they're named at number 10, who would probably drop back. But if you look back at the loud first half, the last day, who was their main forward? It was Grimes, who Cohn was kind of marked.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:16

If you let a carry forward come off somebody, you're gonna be in bother.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:18

Do you know you know you you really are so look at it's it's it's horses for courses. The matchups is gonna be it's gonna be very tactical, and obviously Andy and his backroom team are going to be having to get that right or as close to right as possible. But down the far side of the pitch as well, you're gonna have the likes of obviously Jason Foley going to pick up Odonahu.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:37

Is uh Dylan Casey gonna pick up Kobe? Is Paul Murphy gonna start? Thomas Sullivan come in.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:47

I think it would be a it would be a crazy shout to start Thomas. Yeah, yeah, I think. Nobody knows how good he's going or what he's like in training, but it would be a big call now to put him straight into an all-hand final tomorrow. Kobe Kobe McDonald. Um like he has a he's had a breakout season, you know, only similar to Clufford, yeah, you know, this year. Um, you know, he what a player he is and what a player you know, then you have the other gem in the corner with Darren Byrne there who seems to just play off the cuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:13

And I think Andy has given them that uh little you know, go and express yourself. And they've really done it in spades in the last couple of games in Croker. And Andy mentioned the fact that this team was built for Crow Park. Now, on one side of the coin you can say that they're lucky to be there, but they're there and they're there on merit. And whether they're I know it's a it's a two or three year plan, but they're in the alarm final, and you can guarantee you this week down a training, or for the last couple of weeks down training, they're gonna be saying, Why not? Why can't we win this? Do you know what I mean? You have to be saying that as a management team ahead of Sunday. So it's like you're talking about both full forward lines, obviously, have to be marked, and they're gonna be that's where the presence is gonna be felt on a lot of the game, but it's the middle third, it's the breaking ball, it's the dogs realm.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:57

It's the kick outs, it's the possession of the ball, I think, that's gonna come down then. Well, that's why you say that's why just the numbers 70% off.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:04

You get the ball in hand, you get a score.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:05

It's 75% three every three out of four that you're gonna you're gonna get a shot.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:09

I'd say these two lads are sitting a couch for nine hours talking about the football.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:13

I would I would chat about football all day long.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:15

But uh like I know you have to go into you just get kicked out for the Sunday game as soon as I see Tom Clark's down there waiting with the text. Text there looking after me. Just a couple of very quick questions. Um

Players of the Year and Final Predictions

SPEAKER_04 1:31:24

pick that give me both your young player of the year, like now, ignore the final because we all kind of give out that all stars should be given out now, not the young player of the year. Young player of the year Colby McDonald. Yeah, uh, who's gonna get player of the year if it was given now? Because they know the we're getting a David Clifford vote over here, surprisingly, from the Kerry Corner.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:40

Yeah, so what did you say earlier on? 91 points that nobody else is best in like he is the player of the year now. If if if if Mayo won it, you know, you'd have to probably look at probably Ryan McDonough, you know. And he is a it's a wild thing to say, but it's after 10 and he's a tough bastard. Like, you know, he he takes abuse, he's unbelievable, and he he just he he he keeps getting up and getting up. Like he's one of my favourite players. Um he never shirts responsibility, does he? Yeah, like they're they're they're few and far between in the modern day, but he is one of them, you know. Um so yeah, he's listening, he's beat me old.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:15

They're the two key guys, uh, depending who wins, really. That's player of the year, then. Okay, before I ask the lads who's gonna win, I'm gonna get a show of hands here in the audience. We'll tell the live people at home then who's at it. Hands up if Kerry are going to win the All-Ireland. Okay, that's okay. Let's see. And Mayo, hands up. Yeah, it could be slight bias for him. There's a few Sligo heads down the back photos that so it's it's not as uh cut and shut as we might have thought. Uh Mark, who's going to win on Sunday? And let's give for a bit of fun here. By how many points?

SPEAKER_08 1:32:45

Um I just like the numbers on kick outs. That's the one I said. Mayo, Mayo were I think Kerry's gonna put on a serious press in the moment, Mayo kick out, and Mayo haven't come up against a midfield like Kerries, like O'Shea and uh O'Shea and O'Brien. And like you're looking, you're throwing in Jeremy O'Connor there, you're throwing in Joe O'Connor. We didn't even think about it. Where they played against Loud, who who'd lost their midfielder through the suspension against Monaghan, and then they lost Matthews then before the game completely. So they lost their midfield pair and they still were only at 42% on their own kick out. That's where I would just worry a wee bit for them. And if Kerry is anywhere near their 70 to 80% where they're at, they're gonna get more shots than how many points? Um five. Five.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:30

Darren. I'm gonna say Kerry by six. Okay, you have it there. Any Mayo fans agree or disagree? You can talk to them afterwards. So Darren has picked his all-the-go through this ultra quick. All you say is yes or no, if you agree or disagree, okay?

SPEAKER_05 1:33:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:44

So Shane Murphy in goal. Yeah. Inda Hessian, cornerback. A little bit cornerback, but yeah. Okay, Jason Foley. Yep. Charlie McMurra from Dublin.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:55

No, I don't think so now.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:56

Okay, Stephen O'Hanlon? Maybe Darrell McDonald.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:02

Yeah, Darrell, Dara. Darrell had one big massive game.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:05

Fair to say Kearns you know, this is before the final because we all know it gets skewed after the final, but yeah. So uh Ronan Wallace, I know you're going to agree with this one. Yeah. Uh Marco Shea and Sean O'Brien in midfield.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:15

Don't think they'll put the whole carry midfield. I think probably Conkilp had to carry Tyrone the whole way, I think, to um to the quarter final. I think he could get a shout there, yeah. O'Sheen Conity. Yeah, that's a strange one, all right. Um don't he's an unbelievable footballer. Provincial winner. I just don't think he probably did enough this year. As a not him, but Armad didn't do enough to get it. Um provincial winner get one as a token. I think a West Mead might, because it's something but Armad won all Ireland, so they were kind of expected to win it, if you know what I mean. Um, I don't think Armad will get an Ulster this year. I'm not sure. Okay. Uh Body Clifford. Yeah, again, Body Clifford had had a huge game against Dublin, but he was injured a lot of the year and he only kind of came back. Now, if he's a huge final, he'll get one, but he needed a big final uh to get one. Uh Darry Heen, Russ Common.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fair. That's fair. He just did that for the home crowd here. He just said, I won't get out if I don't give him one. No, no, no. Uh look at David Clifford, it's obvious. He's gonna get an all share. Uh Connor Callahan.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:14

No, I don't think he can give Connor Callahan. Connor Callan played one game all year, lad.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:18

Yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:19

One game.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:20

Ah no, he's gonna be. He got one seven and one nine in a couple of games, isn't he? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:23

Huh?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:23

He got a couple of games ago scored well. We'll have to go back in the sets.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:26

And Ryan, I think I think if you're gonna give anybody the Dublin, you have to pick Neil Scully. Neil Scully's been the best player for Dublin all year. Every year he's he's got three men of the matches now. I've I've never been in that team now, if I'm honest to say.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:37

Don't like him.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:41

Not personal or anything. So, so, so, but like, wait a minute here now. We could we could we could have another argument of this for having a. Tom, hold the car for a couple of minutes. You you don't have Kobe McDonald on it. No, right, that's an interesting one.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:53

I went for the pocket rocket O'Donhue in the corner. Oh, well, he yeah. So are you putting O'Donhue at 14 and Kobe at 15? Well, I would have Geeney probably on it as well.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:06

Not not, you know, um he's been super this year. You you just put all the Kerry boys in the defence.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:11

Uh I did, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:12

Um that's a straight. Ah, it's it's listen, you you went for more of a rounded team. There's gonna be whoever wants it, there's gonna be six or seven. That's what we know about.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:20

Like, I know you I don't want you to ask names because it might look favourite. How many West Meat players do you think are gonna get all stars? I don't want you to know the name because I know you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:27

Yeah, yeah, there's gonna be one. I will admit. No, that's if we're lucky enough to get one. I think we'll probably get you know three or four nominations, which would be huge for the county. But I honestly think we'd be a little schedule. Whitaker is probably Wallace or Whitaker between the two of them, whoever kind of between and listen for me, they were both they're both deserving of it. I thought uh Charlie Drummond fall back was huge immense first, and then Brandon Kelly was the top score. You know, so he that's probably the four Rake and Ellen was good around the middle of the field for big games for us. Um yeah, I think they all probably deserve a shout like nomination, yeah. Yeah, I think they do. And the end of all, like the way the season has gone, it's been as you said, it's been a lot of different teams. There's nobody really extend you know extending for four or five games. Yeah, you know, you're putting a man on there that had won.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:09

Well, you could say Westmead won five games in a row for the first time ever. We did, we did, we did, we did. That was one team.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:14

It was, yeah. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:16

So look at uh I want to just say again uh thanks to all the crew here, uh that the village in for putting us on for nothing for us and helping us out. They've been amazing, decorating the place and helping us everyone we needed. The White Hag Brewery for giving us the beers, EJs for giving us all their help and support. Uh Brian and Pixel Productions, if you are watching and you want some live streaming done, there is no better human being to go. So, Pixel Productions, uh, I have to say huge thanks. I was absolutely shitting myself going. There could be 10 people here. Yeah, like there was no tickets, we had no idea. So I'm so thankful to all of you who came down. I so sincerely mean that. That was the biggest wreck of nerves I had all week was going, who's gonna be asked so give yourselves a massive round of applause. Thank you very much. So, me uh me and Darren, we've been doing this for like this is like five or six weeks. Uh, we did it last year. Muggsy was busy this year from Anna, and now he's gone holidays today, so he's not here. But uh, me and Darren do this as a hobby. It takes up time and energy and effort, but we love it. We see where it grows from here. But I think Darren has become a superstar. Everywhere I go, people are chatting about it. So I can I just give a massive thanks and round applause to Darren Kerr. He won't be able to walk down the street now. And finally, uh again, we contacted Mark the other day. You were still coming down from your season. I'm sure you have visible busy commitments, and it came down, like as I said, you came down of your own free will, free time, and we are so grateful to have such uh uh a player your status and in a the year you've had is with me to get you on our podcast is a real honor, and you're very kind to give your time. A fair play to Noah over there. Put up his patience. So thanks so much for all of you. Thanks to Martin McHugh, thanks to Darren, thanks to everyone. Good night, God bless. If you don't follow us, it's on the edge, on the edge sports podcast. If you don't follow us, uh we'll be back again. We never know. We might have a little secret slide with club championship thing coming up as well. Good night, God bless, thank you all.