Leadership and Growth in Healthcare

Matt talks with Emily Koch about her 10-year career path from graduate of the healthcare administration program through various roles, including assistant executive director, information analyst, and Vice President. They discuss Illuminus’ culture of innovation, trial-and-error learning, technology adoption and cybersecurity responsibilities, and how lean process management supports frontline teams by reducing waste. 

Emily shares her thoughts on how healthcare administration blends empathy and strategic thinking, and shares insights on long-term care challenges, the importance and complexities of succession planning and balancing demanding healthcare leadership roles with raising young families.

Note: Since this recording, Illuminus has implemented its succession plan and elevated Emily to the role of Senior Vice President of Administration.

00:00 Introduction 

00:16 Choosing Healthcare Admin 

01:38 Declaring the Major 

02:30 Residency in Twin Cities 

05:50 First Job at Illuminus 

07:32 Opening a New Building 

08:25 Shift to Quality and Risk 

11:55 From Building to Support 

13:56 Culture of Innovation 

17:57 Tech and Responsibility 

21:07 Lean Process Management 

26:29 Succession Planning Ahead 

30:25 Succession Push and Pull 

31:32 Mentorship and Legacy 

33:52 Disrupting with Big Goals 

37:12 Learning from Failure 

39:27 Avoiding Burnout Risks 

40:50 Long Term Care Headwinds 

43:11 Future of Senior Living 

46:35 Work Family Balance 

54:12 Support Systems and Flexibility 

59:05 Intergenerational Benefits 

Learn more about Illuminus at https://www.illuminus.us/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Illuminators, Changemakers of Senior Living, a podcast that explores the past, present, and future of senior living through the eyes of those who are transforming it from the inside out. I'm your host, Matt Lope, Chief Executive Officer of Illuminate, a face-based not-for-profit that aims to transform senior care for the better. Join me as I seek to reimagine the aging experience through an ongoing dialogue where together we'll shed light on current issues and shine a light on a brighter tomorrow. Thank you for joining me this morning. Looking forward to our conversation today and really want to just start. We're both bluegolds.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

We are.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

And I want to talk about that a little bit and just how you decided, hey, I want to be a healthcare administrator.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah. So I I kind of stumbled into healthcare administration. I uh found myself at UW Claire as an undecided major. I come from a family that is both in healthcare and um business management finance side of things, and tried to find, you know, where do I fall? Am I am I committed fully to um a healthcare nursing program, perhaps, or am I interested in business, accounting, finance? And um kind of stumbled into healthcare administration as as the balance between both. Um and um started in in my undergrad there in some of the classes and uh really found that it was a good fit for me. You know, got to have um some empathy and heart in the work that we do, but also think strategically and um, you know, use critical thinking skills um as well in in in the career. So it's been a fun place to be uh coming off of the UW Claire program, uh had such a network of individuals in our area and in our industry, which has been fun to stay connected to as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

And when did you become a decl when did you declare your healthcare administration?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Right away, uh freshman year.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Okay, so you went there undeclared, but then you quickly realized this is what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yes, you uh UW Claire had a uh one credit course for people who are undeclared undeclared. Right. And I took CAD 101. Yeah, yeah. I took that class and they um, you know, did some personality inventories and um Who is the professor?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

I do not remember it wasn't Lindsay? No. Or Jennifer?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

No, and it wasn't actually an HCAD course, it was just any media.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

So very broad, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

And they said you should think about healthcare administration, that might fit what you're looking for. Um and declared right away and and got in the program. And uh I wasn't sure if I was gonna make it in four years, but I did.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

All right one way or the other. Yeah. And and you did your residency where?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Um, I was up in uh the cities, Twin Cities in Minnesota, uh, Minnesota Masonic Home in Bloomington. Okay. Um I was drawn there.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I didn't realize that. That's where Mike Sendon is now, the CEO for Auburn. That what he was the former CEO for Auburn.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

So that's where you did it at your okay, interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

So they've got new uh about a hundred beds of short-term rehab care, but they call TCU in Minnesota, and fun building, full full campus, continuum of care. Um, but that building was turning and moving and um learned a lot there, had a really great experience.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Who was your preceptor?

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Shelly Wiggin. Um and she recently passed away just a few years ago. Um, but she and I, in the interview process about selecting a practicum location, really connected, and I learned a ton from her. Um, they had a fellow healthcare administration graduate also working there, Beth Schroeder. Um, and she was leading their facilities team at the time. Um and so, you know, they're pretty invested in the program as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah. Okay, so you were there for a year. Well, let me go back and want to ask it. So, how many sites did you look at when you were interviewing for your residency site?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Gosh, probably like 10.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Oh, so you did a lot.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, I toured quite a few and a lot of different geographic regions. I wasn't really sure where I wanted to be. Um, I mostly was interested in looking for a connection with the preceptor, one that I thought I could grow with, one that I could, you know, open my wings and try some things out and um experience some tough situations. And um when I met with Shelly, I I thought, gosh, this will be uh a good fit. And um, you know how the matching program works for the preceptorship, and um I think we ended up both matching one-to-one, and uh so it was a good year.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

So that was your first choice. Yeah, and her first choice. Yes. So when you were looking at the 10 from a geographic perspective, was it all in Minnesota? And just throughout Minnesota, or was it Wisconsin as well?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

No, I I had an interest in moving to the cities, just experienced that area.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Um, I'm trying to recall if I looked at a few in Wisconsin, I think I did. Um, but those that I selected ended up being in the Minnesota area. And again, just I I grew up in the Madison area, I've always been in Wisconsin and was just looking for, you know, an opportunity to um see some other areas, which is such a great part of the healthcare administration program. You have that here where you can you can go anywhere. Um, and the residency program, you have a little bit of a stipend so you can comfortably find somewhere to live and experience it. Um and, you know, just a nice excuse to try something new.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

And did you live in Bloomington?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Um, I lived in South St. Paul. Okay. Um, I ended up having a roommate who was also in the program. She was doing her residency in the Twin Cities areas as well. Um, we had a two-bedroom apartment that we could barely afford. And uh we both worked uh, you know, full-time in our residency program, which was a little strange because all of our um friends back in their four-year programs were still back on campus and uh, you know, living a different life. But uh it was really a jumpstart into my professional career, kind of understanding what it meant to work Monday through Friday and um, you know, kind of out in the real world.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

And so when you completed your residency, which was a year, yes. What was the first role you had in healthcare as a professional?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah, so I joined the Marcourt in 2015, just shortly after I graduated in the program, I think uh in June, and we graduated in May. Um at the Chase Spring Banquet, I had the opportunity to interview with a variety of different senior living providers and start to understand what I might be looking for in a career. Um at that point I interviewed with Michael Benson, he was present, and um he was working as the uh administrator at the Marcourt in Watertown at that time. Um and him and I had a nice interview session, and I uh really liked to hear the mission and the understanding of the Marcourt and Illuminous in general.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

And um and had you known him when you were in school?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

No, no, so he uh had been two years, I think, ahead of me, one or two years ahead of me, and I didn't really know him well from his cohort. Um, but we we had a nice interview. I ended up coming to the campus, touring around, starting to learn what the culture was like. Um, and at that point, starting as an assistant executive director was a really nice stepping stone into my professional career. Um, coming off the residency, learning a lot as an assistant executive director, and um kind of kickstarting from there.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

And so you started your role uh with Illuminus as an assistant administrator?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

And were in that role for how long? Do you remember? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Um I think it was about three years.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Oh three years, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

So a big portion of my role was supporting the new development construction. We opened the new CBRF.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Um, and that was an exciting uh, you know, first for me. Uh understanding how to open a new building, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Making sure um And that's where we first started really working together was with park terraces opening.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yes, right. So, you know, making sure you have enough mattresses and you have to think about all the little things in a new building opening up that you don't think about every day. Silverware, and does the call light system work? And um, you know, do we have the right room numbers in the right areas and um getting that building set up and ready to go? And it was a fun way to to join the campus, and it was an exciting time in the community. People were really excited about the new development.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

And so you were in that role for three years. Okay, and then you went on to do some project work for us, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And yeah, so about the same time um Illuminus started partnering and growing with other senior living communities. And um I had uh, you know, kind of tapped on the shoulder and said, Hey, I'm I'm curious and interested about the growth that's happening here with Illuminus and how can I become more involved. Um, and about that time is when I joined uh the management company side, and a lot of my projects at that point were um working on systems, working on policies and procedures, trying to find ways as we grew as a as an organization, how do we start to partner with other organizations? We didn't really know we were um you know working through that as we got going. And um I believe that to be about 2018 or 2019 um when when I started working on behalf of the the management company or Luminous.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

And and when did it remind me when you started in your role as VP of 2022? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Um and in the time before that, I was functioning in the information analyst role, um, then as the director of quality and risk management. Um and at that time that's when some of our centralized services were beginning to change and grow in that time period.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

So I want to talk a little bit, want to kind of transition and talk about the information analyst role and kind of the risk management component, and uh just start by, you know, at as you alluded to, we didn't have a roadmap when we grew Illuminous. And so a lot of it's been trial and error, and even a lot of the skills that you've learned, the lean process management, the Baldridge we kind of learned uh on the on the fly, yeah uh so to speak. Just interested in kind of your your broad uh thoughts around uh what your role has has become. And did you ever see yourself doing this 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Right. I say that often. I never envisioned as a new graduate of the UW Healthcare Administration program that I would start with an organization a couple weeks after graduation, and 10 years later I would still be here. I still say that today. I never expected to join a team and stay. Yeah, and that sounds tough to hear.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

And what what when you if if I just press on that a little bit? And what what how long did you think you would stay with an organization?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I thought I would join as a new grad and maybe be three or five years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Ten-year starter job, get your feet wet, figure out what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

And then I would grow somewhere else or find something new, jump into a different area, and and quite frankly, I wasn't even really sure if senior living would be the path or if I'd go find somewhere new. And so it still surprises me today um how much my reflection has changed on that, and and how much I've grown and learned about senior living, and and how much my thought process has changed to this is a great place to be in senior living. And I never expected that on the front end. Um, but it's been fun to to be in that journey and kind of have that perspective change.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

And just we you and I haven't had a chance to talk about this before, but if you think about as an administrator, you're in the building every day, you're working with staff, you're working with residents, and and you're kind of getting real life feedback. Yeah, it's very different in the role that you're in today, but just as meaningful. It just the the impacts are different. Just reflect on that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I I think often, I think often about the work that our teams do in the buildings, resident-facing day in and day out. Um working alongside colleagues, resident facing, speaking with families, helping um, you know, residents work through the transitions of living in a community-style senior living environment. Um, and that's really hard work. Um you couple that with the administrative burden and the complexities that come alongside our industry, makes it really, really tough uh to work in that industry. And what I've found as I've um become a little more distant from the resident-facing position into where I am now is these are the types of projects and and efforts that we can work on kind of behind the scenes to allow those folks to have more resident-facing time in um, you know, engaging in work that really matters. And if we can offload any of that burden um in order to allow them to work more closely, that's what's really important. And so I've I've had a little bit of a shift of yes, you know, our mission is to serve the residents that we care for, but also now my work is to help those serving the residents. Um, and so it's been a little bit of a transition. Um, but you know, as you kind of look down through it, you still know the work that we're doing is at the end result for the residents.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. So we were we're talking about kind of uh your role and supporting uh the administrators. We also talked about the fact that that we didn't have a roadmap. Um we've come to learn, I think, as as time has gone on, that some of the things we've done have been pretty unique: centralizing our medical records staff, centralizing our our MDS staff. Just talk about, from your perspective, some of the innovative things that you've seen a luminist do and the impacts that you think it's having on the industry, the kind of the good, the bad, and the ugly.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah. Well, first of all, the culture of Illuminists being able to voice crazy ideas has helped our teams drive a lot of that progress. It's it's the um, gosh, I've been I've been thinking about this for a long time. What if we tried something like this? This is the issue that we're seeing over and over and over, and we can't find a way past it. Uh, what if we tried this? And the the culture that allows for our teams to feel comfortable to bring those crazy ideas forward has brought some great success.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

As a young professional working in an organization that continues to grow, um, do you find that exciting?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yeah, big time. Um, I I could list on and on and on the number of times that I've tried an idea that didn't work. Um, and I'm able to do that in my role because of the the trust and the encouragement of the organization. Encouraging us to try new innovative ways. And it's okay if it doesn't work. Um we have to try, we have to, you know, think about things differently and give it a go in a new way. Um when I talked earlier about, gosh, I I didn't expect to be in an organization for 10 years. I think a lot of the reasons why I do stay is that ability to try things, to give it a go, to think outside the box, to try and troubleshoot. Um, senior living is a a tough industry, and and someone has to be brave and bold and willing. Um, and we often think, you know, um it it could be a scary world if we don't try these new things. Um and and if it's not us, then who? You know, um, and so I've taken that really personally in my role here. Um, our population is uh aging and um these problems aren't gonna get easier on their own. And if it's not us who are trying new creative things, will anyone?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Um, and so uh that that's extremely motivating. Um and having uh a net underneath you to catch you when you fall, because we do. You you try new things and you are gonna fess up and things are not gonna end up going the way that you hope they were. Um, but knowing that there's a net underneath you um gives gives that opportunity to try it out.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah, I think oftentimes when I'm talking to to different groups about some of the things we tried, it a lot of times people think that everything you try works. And in reality, maybe half of them work.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Maybe half.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

And you gotta be willing to pivot.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

And and you gotta be willing to confront the fact that, yeah, that wasn't a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yeah, yep. And and being willing to say, this is what we tried, here's what we found, and it didn't work, and here's where we're headed now. Um, it takes a lot of trust from our entire staff, our residents, our families to be able to do those things. Um, and you know, offering transparency in those situations, here's what we tried, it didn't work. So we have to pivot and and try this way now. Um, build some of that engagement and trust with the rest of the team who is experiencing that change alongside with you.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Right. I mean, we've we've built the organization to be a disruptor in a in an industry that's very, very mature and is stuck in its ways and unwilling to try new things. But we also are living in an environment where technology is being implemented at a faster and faster pace. It's having a more significant impact on our resident lives, on our staff lives. And within Illuminous, you lead many of these initiatives, many of these new programs or technologies that we're implementing. Can you just talk about what it means to be an organization that is a disruptor that's on the cutting edge of implementing some of these technologies?

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah. We have a great responsibility. With technology comes great responsibility. Um the world we live in, technology isn't just a luxury anymore. It's an expectation. Um, we have smart homes and we have wearables and we have robotics, and it is now an expectation of the world that we live in day-to-day. It's no longer a gosh, that's a really neat thing. How cool if I could have that. Um and and with innovative technologies, whether it's systems behind the scenes or it's devices and new um equipment in our in our buildings, all of that expands a great deal of responsibility that we have to ensure that um things are protected. Uh our cyber um environment grows when we do that. And we have a a great deal of responsibility to ensure that we're doing it in a thoughtful way.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

At the end of the day, we are people caring for people. That's what our organization is.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Um we do embrace technology in a way to allow staff to care for people more easily in a higher quality way. Um, and we have to just make sure that we're being really thoughtful on those technologies that are being rolled out, that they're done in a safe way, an ethical way. Um and and really paying close attention to that. At the end of the day, those technologies are being placed to allow more um one-on-one time between caregiver and resident to embrace and enhance that quality of care.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah, yeah, I always I find it interesting. It it seems so simplistic today, but just the idea of getting a smartphone in the hands of all of our caregivers and the impact it's had on their workflows and also the residents, the ability to use it as your key to open a door to be able to do charting at bedside right on your phone, to be able to use it as the time clock to punch in every day or to submit your vacation requests. It's read email, it's incredible just what that one device has done to change the way we provide care.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Emily, we were talking about uh Illuminous being uh a disruptor willing to to try new things and um one of the one of the concepts that we've brought into our organization is that of lean process management which um when most people hear about lean process management they think about the manufacturing world which utilizes it much more efficiently than than we do in healthcare but our organization has started to really embrace it and you are trained as a yellow belt in in lean process management and so I I just want to get your thoughts on you know what what that means to our organization how we utilize the concepts what it means um and and kind of where you see it going in the future yeah yeah when when Luminous brought to my attention the lean culture the lean idea I was hesitant um it felt very cold and manufacture driven I thought gosh I don't I don't know how this is gonna fit in with the work that we do every day um so I hesitantly dabbled in um and it's been shocking how how important it is to the work that we do yeah I originally thought it was you know um cutting back and cutting corners and and um skipping steps in order to just do things faster and that's an interesting perspective yeah it isn't that um and I think back to some of my first involvements with lean uh and often we put a a board up on the wall that talks about ground rules right um and and some of those ground rules really centered me for beginning my journey in lean um every every opinion is is valid um there are you know expectations that there's nothing that we can't touch um we can uh see all of the ideas bring them all forward we might not be able to work on all of them but there's a level of comfort in those meetings in those project teams that allows you to think differently um and and as I've seen our lean culture grow and change we've found such valuable outcomes in the work that we've done asking why do we do it that way and is that the best way that we could work every day in that day out you know um are those tools ones that are leading to good outcomes or um should we rethink that right um finding data to help us drive those decisions identifying waste in the things that we do for no reason why have we always done it that way um and it became a very comfortable natural place to drive progress in our organization and it um I think every team that we put together on lean project initiatives starts a little bit hesitant.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

And I try and remember that as a lean leader um my first days sitting in the chair in the lean project team and thinking oh what's happening here and and trying to build that project team up to know what our what our goals are um and and what lean really means to us.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

And do you think our colleagues have embraced the lean concept?

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah you know we've had a a few really successful large group initiatives with lean process improvement and and that just ripples out and um it it builds some confidence hey we actually did that right we pulled that off we sat down at the beginning of the meeting thinking there's no way we're gonna be able to meet that that B Heg, that big hairy auditious goal uh there's I don't know how we could ever get there. But we do get there and that's what's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

And that that just echoes right people hear about that and they think oh what is that like well and it's such a great way to get so many people involved in the process that anybody in the organization can identify an issue and then say hey we we got a problem we got to fix this and then to be able to put a lean a team together to really dissect it and and to feel like you're part of the success of figuring out the problem.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah we often say as leaders to lean process improvement projects we we're not coming with the answers. I don't I don't actually know what the end goal is you all who do the work every single day you have the answers.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

You might not feel like it right now but you do.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Right we talk about that all the time when we don't know the answer to something just go ask our colleagues they know the answer.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yep yep they they know it they might not up front tell you that they know it but helping them to succeed is exciting.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah and you've led a number of project teams yourself which has been fun and it's been fun to watch kind of the growth of of that happen over time.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah really exciting especially on projects that I have no clue anything about yeah I think that's the most fun and and I say I I really don't know a lot about this area so I'm gonna ask some of these silly questions and we're gonna figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah a lot of fun which which it it does make it fun. Let's transition now talk about succession planning because you you've had a number of different roles within our organization and for the past well probably going on a year or two um we've built a pretty significant succession plan in which you'll you'll transition from the uh vice president of quality and risk to the senior vice president so um just want to talk about that process and kind of from from your standpoint how you're feeling about that uh both now and in in the future as we make this transition.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah. You know I I think back to when we began talking about succession planning years ago um Sherry Sierra at that point in the organization was beginning to think about her horizon of retirement and um I I knew I wanted to grow with the organization and I began to be a little brave in saying I I you know I'd like to grow with the team I'm I'm really excited about where Illuminus is going and starting to find ways to vocalize my goals for growth within the organization and um you know I being identified as a successor really early has been so important in the work that we're working on for three, five eight years of that succession plan. Having that timeline allows us to build a lot of trust from the people who rely on Sherry for the work that she does every single day. And I felt really honored that the transparency has been there which allows me to grow as well. You know I think about um the roles that Cherry has held in the organization and I think about the roles that I've held in the organization and um how can we find ways to translate some of her skills and knowledge and um you know efforts for me to learn over the next five eight years has been really helpful. I'd say we've we've learned a lot as we go. It is uh it takes dedicated commitment to having good thoughtful succession planning it takes time and it's not always fun to step away from the roles that you do every day to sit down and really think about this. But but we've committed to doing that uh which has been fun to watch change as as we've continued to work through the roles. There are some you know tough parts about succession planning. Sherry and I are not the exact same person. And so it's been fun and interesting kind of learning where her and I differ and and what that looks like in our future. It has also taken you know me to be brave and say let me try it. Let me give it a go see if I can pull this off someday you're not gonna be here and I'm gonna have to figure this out and so um being brave and willing to say uh Sherry just let me try it first. You know I'll count on you if I if I need support or help in some way but let me give it a go and let's see how we can do. And it's been a nice way to know she is still here as a mentor um and and available to support but in the meantime let let me try as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Right. Yeah I mean an organization is lar as as we grow we've gotten more and more sophisticated and so that transfer of knowledge is so yeah uh critically critically important and how awesome for you to have a mentor you know in in Sherry um you talked about just you know you're not the same person um you want to do things in you know you may want to do them one way she may want to do them another way just talk about some of the challenges yeah related to succession planning.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah so um it's true you know um Sherry has a very distinct leadership style um her and I have a lot of similarities in that but I also have different ways that I would navigate things and um we're you know gosh we are 30 years apart yeah um but being able to talk through that and say I recognize this is how you would approach this situation um my perspective would approach it in this way and being comfortable in that um push and pull I think has driven both of us further yeah recognizing why does she see it that way and why would she make that decision or um what is she seeing that I'm not seeing and vice versa I think has grown both of us.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

So it's sometimes it's tough. You know at the end of the day um you know sometimes we have some tough challenges through that but uh I think her and I would both say we've grown a lot from some of that.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

But on the flip side to that she's got almost 35 years of knowledge in the organization and in long-term care. Yeah and the just the ability the wealth of knowledge and the ability to go to her and say hey uh what should we do here and for her to be able to say well I've had to deal with this multiple times in my career. Yeah um just talk about it from that perspective the the benefits of having a mentor who's done this for so long.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Yeah early in our identified succession I remember myself saying to Sherry so often I am my ears are so big I I was am still am just absorbing all the time hearing as much as I can taking in as much as I can understanding how leaders navigate tough situations and just absorbing you know um and and also then afterwards saying tell me more about the legacy behind that how how did that 20 year decision come to be and and what brought us here as an organization that history and roots that she has within the organization I I try and soak up 10% of it to carry on as much as I can. I can't perfectly carry her 35 year tenure um but it's very clear she knows the legacy of the organization and um I feel you know a duty to carry on a portion of that on her behalf.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

And some of that is just listening and learning and asking as much as I can and um well and that's the beautiful thing about just a well thought out transition plan.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

And and the organization doesn't expect you to carry all of that forward. Yeah because we know that and the organization knows the world's evolving and we have to evolve with it and yeah and and I think in and even for those that mentor people as as I've done over time you want to transfer that knowledge but you also want that the mentee to take that knowledge and then grow it even further because it's how we progress um as as an organization.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Anyone who knows Sherry knows that that's what she wants yeah you know which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Uh Emily you and I have worked together for the better part of 10 years and and you know that you know it's just in my nature to be always pushing the envelope that I want to be a disruptor. I want to change um how we provide healthcare services and that's not always easy for people working in the organization. I think it's exciting but I also know it's a lot of work just from your perspective having worked together so closely and you and I are often working on the bleeding edge of implementing these technologies just share share with me your thoughts on um just just how hard we push and and what that means.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah. Matt your words are it's not always easy uh my words sometimes is it's terrifying uh you push us in a way that makes us brave to try new things it is sometimes terrifying yeah uh you step away from a conversation whether it's in passing or it's a a full day strategy session you walk away and you think I don't know how we're gonna do that. And you rest your head on your pillow that night and you think is he crazy? Is there any way that we can actually pull that off and how you know and and I can't how does he think of these goals um you know and um and then the next day you're still thinking on it and the next week you're starting to think about ways that maybe maybe um and um you know some ways that I work through that is just digesting phases and think if that's the goal that's that's a big goal that's a crazy goal.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

But what can I actionably make progress on that is actually heading us in that direction. And that makes it a little more palatable. Yeah. Uh in the beginning you're terrified and it's like I don't really where do you come up with this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

But phasing things in in a way that it's like that is headed towards the true north that is um where we want to go uh and and then sometimes you hit it and you're like holy smokes you know right how huh just being willing to try things so do you think we've moved in in the in the years we've worked together do you think that we've moved the needle in in changing how healthcare services are provided?

SPEAKER_01 37:17

I do I do we we talked about areas where we've fallen and we've made mistakes and those happen but we have had great successes and when you can see those filter throughout the organization in the lives that we touch you know you talk about our circle of influence and every small decision that we make makes a vast change on the people that we're serving every day. And that that's cool. You know when it when you win uh and you hit it and um you think about how how outreach is happening to those we serve is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah I mean as you know I I don't have a fear of failure. Yeah I really I really don't I maybe slightly but but not much. What would you tell I mean knowing that our organization is is innovative and we're constantly trying to push the envelope what what advice would you give to a new person knowing that many people they they're afraid to fail. They haven't failed in their professional career yeah but working in our organization that's gonna happen that's that's an everyday occurrence because we're we're trying new stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

I think take a deep breath be willing to admit when we misstep um be willing to kind of look into what what was our original goal what was the outcome and how did we get there? What happened that led us to miss or mistake or um not get there. And I think being it's really tough but being brave enough to say that didn't work the way we wanted and I I recognize that and this is what went wrong. Yeah and here's what I'm gonna work on to try and remedy it in this direction here's our plan to head in a new way or here's the feedback we got from the stakeholders it impacted this is what we're gonna do differently um making mistakes happens every single day. Right uh it's it's what you do about it.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

And I you know um and we talk about feedback as a gift.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yes working really hard not to cover it up and push it under and oh it didn't happen and I don't know you know hiding it never works. And so right understanding um what went wrong how do we hear from the people that it impacted make a course correction and and make a plan to move forward um and and knowing that there is a a family culture that surrounds us. If you think about your your own personal life we make mistakes in our personal life all the time too um but but you're in it together as a family and and through the hard times as well you know you're kind of missed up but how are we gonna work through it?

SPEAKER_00 40:12

And and what do you see as some of the potential downfalls or pitfalls of pushing the organization hard to be a disruptor.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Yeah. The workforce industry that we're in allows for folks to have a moment or two of being uncomfortable and then stepping away saying nope I don't want to that's too hard that's too too complicated I don't want to have that kind of pressure on me. I'm in head that way that looks easier um and that's that's you know a a tough world that we live in burnout is really common and so balancing the really steep aggressive goals that we have with what is manageable and and helping people to understand that you are making progress and not being terrified I'll use that word again and saying uh I don't want to get into that that is it's it's too much it's too too stressful. Um and so balancing that is important and helping those folks who who are worried about that know we're gonna make incremental progress um we we're not gonna do it overnight. Right yeah um can help.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Emily I want to uh switch gears a little bit and talk about some of the challenges that you uh see long-term care facing yeah um long-term care is a a tough industry I say that every day uh we are on a demographic shift that is against us our population is aging our workforce is getting smaller um and sheer numbers are against us not on our side um that is a mountain that we have to be ready to climb every single day um I think about some of the um policy reform that impacts us regulatory burden that changes what we do a lot of people get into long-term care uh with hopes of of serving our elderly population and not necessarily knowing how regulated we are um and some of that administrative burden um really impacts the work that we do um payment reform is a challenging one that healthcare uh in general not only long-term care is facing every single day um one that you know when you think about reimbursement is really really tough from from margins in the work that we do and so we have to think creatively about how can we at Illuminus move the needle when there are so many um pressures externally that we can't always navigate. We talk about the workforce uh challenges as well um you know I I think about nursing enrollment for example the ability to educate individuals into nursing careers has um really changed and made it tough um for the long-term care industry to be a place where we can um grow qualified individuals in career paths that are meaningful to them the work that they do um you know so I I think you know we talked earlier about some of the ways that we can try and alleviate some of those challenges. I many people working in long term care will say this is a tough industry. Yeah you gotta be ready to uh you know pull your boots up and and and dig in because it's not easy. Right. It is not a a fluffy easy industry to be a part of what what do you what excites you about the future

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Of of healthcare.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

You know, um I talk about the the demographic change being a challenge. I I think sheer numbers helps me to understand that we will figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Uh the aging population is not going away.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Um, and they have new expectations for us. Many of the individuals aging in our populations are 15, 20, 30 years outside of their career and have this whole segment of their life to live. Um and what their expectations are is changing. Um they are not thinking of aging as a a decline portion of their life. They are excited and proud. And um that energy fuels us. Um the demographics shifting in a way that that population is growing so much helps me to understand that we will put attention to it and we must put attention to it simply because of that demand and the need. Um, there's no going away from long-term care and senior living. It's not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Um, and and um, you know, I talked earlier about if not us, then who, and and that really excites me. Um, how can we be the drivers in in senior living?

SPEAKER_00 45:22

And when you think 20 years into the future, what do you want to see radically changed?

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Yeah. I think about that often. Um I I often hear people who work in in long-term care in senior living bashful about that. Um, I work in healthcare, or uh I'm a nurse. Um you'll hear someone say I'm a nurse at the hospital, I work in the orthoclinic, but it's really unusual to hear people say, I'm a nurse in a skilled nursing facility and be really proud about that. Yeah. And um I I would love to.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

There's still a negative stigma around that.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

I would love for that narrative to change, um, not just for those of us in the industry, but as a whole, um, to really be proud and energized by the the senior living industry as a whole. Um, being, you know, excited to say I work at Illuminus, we serve seniors every day, and that to be something really, really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Uh and And do you think we can get there?

SPEAKER_01 46:29

I think we I think we can get there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

I do too.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

I um 20 years is far and not far all at the same time. Plenty of time. Plenty of time, you know. Um and again, just thinking about that. This industry is full of possibility. It's not just decline. Helping people to understand this isn't just individuals kind of passing away and and um the end of their story. There is so much wisdom and joy and pride and excitement in in this time of people's lives. And um for us on on the outskirts of those individuals' lives, being able to tell that story and be proud about it and um help others to understand that too um would be pretty neat.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

I've been an administrator for 21 years, and you've been an administrator now for 10. And uh, and we're both professionals that have worked our way uh through the healthcare um profession, and we have young families.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

And my son is 15 and my daughter is 12, and your daughter's six months. She is six months, yeah. And so I just wanna talk a little bit about um the the balance between uh our professions and raising families. Yeah, and I'm a little further along in this process, but um wanna wanna get some of your insights into uh you know what what are the challenges, what are the fun aspects, what what is what do organizations need to do to evolve in order to feel supported as a as a professional working with young families?

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Yeah. You know, um prior to getting married and having our our first uh work was my family. Uh and I gave a lot, all of myself, 100% of myself to to my work family, I will call it. Um, and that means so much to me, giving my all uh to the work that I do. Um as a young professional and starting my own family, your your life becomes more complicated. Oh, for sure. Um your mind and your heart is pulled in more directions than than you think it could be.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Um and it becomes, you have to be really intentional about how you um spend your time and how you work through that. Um there are pulls and pressures at work, there are pulls and pressures at home, um, and you find yourself trying to balance. I'm only six months in, so I'm still on my teeter-totter.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

I mean, it feels like an emotional roller coaster all the time.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Yep, yep. Uh there are challenging things happening at work where you have to commit your your time and your focus to, and then there are challenging things happening at home you gotta commit your your time and attention to. Um I think finding ways to be successful in that are, you know, um, being willing to work with your employer and your work family um and and them hearing you out about what's going on at home. Um, you know, some days you can you can commit yourself for 11 hours to your uh workplace professional responsibilities, and some days you have something uh come up at home that the child has a fever at daycare and uh and do you feel like most of your colleagues are accepting of that and are supportive? Yeah. Um there are you know so many days where I come into work and and folks say, What's Avery doing today? What is she what does she learn? What's new with her? And it's just been fun to share my family life at work. Um I feel supported in ways that they know home is changing and um complicated too. Um, you know, as a a new mom and a young professional, you try and figure out what what am I doing every day? I don't know. You know, your routines change and uh your priorities change and um having individuals at work kind of know that or be through that. You know, Matt, you talk about your own family and saying, I remember um before Avery was born, you're saying your whole life is gonna change for the better. You're gonna have you have no idea what's ahead of you, and you know, you really don't until you get into it. Um so many of my um work family members have been through um raising young children, and um that's wisdom that I can lean into and say, hey, this is this is what I'm trying to figure out, and I'm getting pulled and I don't know how to navigate this.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Um I think it strengthens relationships with our colleagues, just the ability to share kind of our personal lives as well as as our work lives. That do you find the same thing?

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Yeah, there are uh so many colleagues that I know so much about their families. We spend so much time together, and it is important for us to be um to be able to connect on that level. Um, I feel you know um comfortable enough kind of talking through those things at work and and saying, hey, I'm sure you've gone through this situation too. Do you have any ideas for us? Because we're we're stuck.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Um and and that just shows that we are real people. We work really, really hard day in and day out, but at the end of the day, we're all we're all just real people trying to do the best that we can. Um, and it's shocking, you know, we talked about different generations in our workplace right now, and um problems or difficulties raising a family changed. Right. The types of things that I worry about are different than the types of things that maybe Sherry worried about.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Just wait until your daughter wants a cell phone, social media accounts when she's 12 years old.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Yeah, but knowing I'm not the only one going through that. Other real people that I know and trust are also going through that or have been through it is really comforting.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Well, and I think as a as a leader, it it just it it makes it more personable. You're you become more approachable, I think, the more you can open up and share some of those stories.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Yeah, yep. I think a lot about um the majority of the workforce and the teams that we have are young women, right? And many with young children as well. And um when you think about the challenges as um being a new parent uh or a seasoned parent.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Um and and I think it's you know really important for us at Illuminist to honor that, and I think we do, um, in a way that that supports them at home and professionally.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Um how do you think an organization like Illuminist needs to continue to evolve to be supportive of young professionals who either have a young family or want to start a young family? Because I I get asked all the time by young administrators, is it even possible to be an administrator and to have a family? Yeah. Is can you really juggle that? And and you you're doing it right now, and I've done it for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Yeah, yeah. There are unique challenges to being a young parent in a professional role. Um, my husband and I had a lot of very intentional conversations about what sort of supports do we need in order for this to work. Um, and when I think about our workforce, of course, things like child care are really, really, really tough in the world we live in right now. Um, mental health is a really, really important segment that I think when we're supporting young families is an area that we have to pay close attention to. Um and you know, knowing that you are on a balance and having your employer recognize that and finding ways to support you through that um is important.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Yeah. I remember when I was in college and uh and my wife and I met one another at Eau Claire, and and I remember telling her, I said, um, you know, if we're gonna have a life together, you just have to understand that it's going to be crazy and chaotic.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

And I remember just looking at me like, what on earth are you talking about? And I said, I don't know what the future is gonna look like, but I have a lot of plans and a lot of things I want to accomplish. And being in a being a healthcare administrator like we are, it's it's a lifestyle. Yeah, it's it's more than a nine to five job, it's a lifestyle because we're caring for people. Yeah, um, just talk a little bit about kind of your your and and it's difficult because our spouses they don't really have an understanding of exactly what we do. And yeah, you're probably like me, you don't want to go home every night and try to explain it to them. But just talk about how important it is that support system.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Yeah, yeah. The um the communication between families at home is so important. Um, the 9 p.m. call that we have a building whose power is out and they can't access their medical record. Right. Okay. Um the the baby's trying to go to sleep when that's happening. Um and and being willing to have those discussions at home and professionally and saying, hey, here's where I'm at in these scenarios. Um to your point of um, sometimes people not in our industry don't always recognize that our caring for others happens 24-7 at work. Um, and finding ways to support that, um, especially as a nursing home administrator, is complicated.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Uh, I think you're right when you talk about having upfront discussions about real scenarios, right? Um, something's gonna happen at 9 p.m. and this is what it will require of me, and how will we navigate that?

SPEAKER_02 56:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

Um, the child will get an ear infection and daycare will not uh let her come that day. And what are we gonna do about that? And um, those aren't always easy conversations to have, and that um pulls you in two separate directions, uh, which can be tough. Um, but I think you know, Illuminus knows that yes, we have priorities and goals, and sometimes you drop everything for work, and sometimes that has to happen, but also knows um your home life is really important too. Right. Um and and how can we help support kind of both sides of that?

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Yeah, I think it's important for not only young professionals, but any any administrator who has a family to to just be just have an ongoing frank conversation with your employer. Yeah. To say, hey, these are the challenges I'm dealing with, or I need to to do X, Y, and Z over the next two or three weeks. And and society has adapted quite quite a bit, and and even the way we work today is is so drastically different, yeah, uh, than it once was. You don't have to go to the community at 10 o'clock at night anymore. You can log on to your computer and and deal with a lot of things. So the the world has evolved quite substantially.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

Those changes happen in families' lives all the time, right? You know, I think about a CNA who came to me at one point in my career and she said, We're we're moving. Uh, the next three weeks are going to be such a mess for me at home, you know. Um, and I I intend to be here, but my mind is uh um hitting on a couple other levels that it always isn't, you know, day in and day out. And as a partner at work to know that um is helpful because she's got a lot going on at home right now. These are some of the things that she's dealing with, or um uh a team member going through a divorce and just knowing that we're all real people, there are still real things going on in our lives. Um, there are, you know, um family members passing away or tough accidents or really hard things that happen in our world that um we have to recognize as team members impact when we come to work too.

SPEAKER_02 59:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Um, and to your point, feeling comfortable to talk through that at work is so important to help people just kind of understand where you're at right now. Uh, and it's funny how um when things push and pull in other directions, other team members sometimes are at the point where they're like, I can take on a little more, I can support you right now. I know your life is pulling you in this direction, but I, you know, I have the capacity to help you here and being vocal about it and talking about it is sometimes the only way through it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

Yeah. We talk about the challenges, but there's there's a lot of benefits, and yeah. My kids grew up at at the communities that I was an administrator uh for, and I always I always used to tell them you've got hundreds of sets of grandparents.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

And uh and they took full advantage of that when they were little.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

I think about the Halloween trick-or-treating uh in a senior living community the best way ever because there is no snow, no freezing temperatures, and hundreds of grandparents that have bowls of candy, just you take two steps and you're at the next door already.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

So and to see that intergenerational experience is just really incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Yeah. When we talk about senior living in the future, I see some of that intergenerational definitely becoming a part, the complexities of the demand of aging population coupled with that um child care dynamic that we're in right now. It's really, really tough to find reliable childcare. And you wonder how those um generations might start to play a part together.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

Yeah. Emily, thank you for this today. It's been a lot of fun to hear your perspectives on senior living, and I appreciate you coming on. And thank you everyone for watching.