Culinary Excellence in Senior Living

Host Matt Mauthe welcomes Patty Moe, Regional Director with New Horizon Foods and a strategic partner of Illuminus.  

They discuss her career path, from 10 years with the Minneapolis Police Department (and a brief start in mortuary science), to culinary leadership in senior living.  

Patty shares early influences, self-taught training, roles in school food service, and joining Illuminus as Executive Chef before moving into leadership.  

She explains why food is central to residents’ quality of life, how listening to residents through dining-room conversations and committees improves service, and the challenges of recruiting cooks due to stigma about “nursing home” kitchens.  

Listen as she highlights opportunities like better work/life balance, scratch cooking, fresh ingredients, multiple dining venues, managing special diets, regional preferences, and presentation “wow factor”. 

00:00 Podcast Welcome
00:37 Meet Patty Moe
02:08 From Cop to Chef
02:55 Mortuary Science Detour
04:39 Career Pivot to Food
06:21 Joining Illuminus
07:29 Why Food Matters
09:00 Serving Seniors Well
11:16 Kitchen Staffing Challenges
12:38 Opportunities and Mentoring
16:11 Fresh Ingredients Philosophy
16:39 Farm to Table Reality
18:01 Creativity and Presentation
19:30 Dining Venues and Future
24:46 Regional Tastes and Diets
26:25 Regulations and Wrap Up

Learn more about Illuminus at https://www.illuminus.us/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Illuminators, Changemakers in Senior Living, the podcast that explores the past, present, and future of senior living through the eyes of those who are transforming it from the inside out. I'm your host, Matt Mothe, Chief Executive Officer of Illuminist, a faith-based not-for-profit that aims to transform senior care for the better. Join me as I seek to reimagine the aging experience through an ongoing dialogue where together we'll shed light on current issues and shine a light on a brighter tomorrow. Thank you for uh joining us. I'm here with uh Patty Moe, who is uh regional director with New Horizon Foods, uh, which is a strategic partner of Illuminists, and want to talk and get some of your background, and we'll talk about your time with us and in culinary. But you have a fascinating background because you came through a very atypical way and that you started out as a police officer.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

I did. I uh spent 10 years with the Minneapolis Police Department in Minnesota. I got into culinary at a very young age. My brother was a formerly trained chef. I would go to work with him as young as having to stand on a milk crate to be able to see the grill and the flat top. Grew up in a large family with a mother who really didn't cook well. So we all kind of worked our way around the kitchen at home if we wanted to have good meals at night. Both of our parents worked. So if we didn't want hamburger helper or oven-fried chicken every other night, we decided we'd figure out how to create food that maybe was a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I just heard on the news hamburger helper's coming back.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Hamburger helper has about 150 different varieties.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Oh man. Yeah, we used to eat the famous.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

It used to be just cheesy hamburger. What was your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

What one's your favorite one?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

That was the only one I ever had.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Oh, the lasagna one was my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, I've never was always just the old school original hamburger helper.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I went to college up in the Twin Cities area. My parents didn't have a lot of money, so if I was going to college, I was getting student loans and I was going to be repaying. So I started working in restaurants in Rogers, Minnesota, which is north of the Twin Cities. Then I worked at Edinburgh Golf Course as kind of an assistant Sioux chef.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

That was at the end of my college. I tried to barter with them, said I would stay if they would match the pay for a police officer, and they couldn't do that. So I went on to law enforcement and did that for 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

And did you was that something that you aspired to be as a police officer that you wanted to go to school for criminal justice?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

My original major was mortuary science.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Oh my goodness. Okay. Mortuary science to a police officer to culinary. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Found out that oddly enough, you have to have a lot of science to be a mortician, hence the mortuary science. Right. I wasn't really interested in. I didn't understand that if somebody is deceased, why do I need to know as much as a doctor to get them ready for their funeral? So I thought, well, a good friend and neighbor. When I was growing up, he was a police officer in at on the Winona police department. So I had a conversation with him, and he said, you know, Patty, you were not the best child. You might have been a really good cop. Because you know the ins and outs.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

So I that's what I did. I pursued it, and then my dad said, I'm proud of you, but you will not be a Minneapolis police officer.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

And that's when you look to make the move to culinary?

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Nope. That's he said that before I got hired at the police department.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

And I said, Dad, I'll be a police officer wherever I can find a job because I have student loans I need to pay back.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

So he said, Well, if you do, I'm gonna get a a welder and I'm gonna make you a tin suit to wear. And I said, it's not logical.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

So when I called him and said I got a job on the Minneapolis Police Department, he said, Do you ever listen to your father? I said, Well, I'm 20 some years old now, I'm not gonna start listening now. So that was it.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

So 10 years in the Minneapolis Police Department.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

And it was from there then that you launched your culinary career permanently.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yes and no. I also became a broker and an owner of a real estate company. Was doing very well in that. I still was involved in food service at golf courses because I had friends that were executive chefs and whatever, and I'd fill in and help out when they had large functions. I enjoy cooking. I like to make people happy through food.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

And what was your first role as in culinary? And did you have to go back to school to get into culinary? No.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

No. Some of the best chefs are are self-taught or taught by other chefs. And I worked with that quite a few good chefs that were willing to teach and talk you through things.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah. And so what was your first role and in kind of your professional culinary experience?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I was working at the Dakota County Technical College in Rosemont, Minnesota.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

That was my first full-time back into it. And then about a year after I had that job, I met somebody in Wisconsin. So I moved to Wisconsin for love.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

And then I worked for a large food service company in the independent school segment of that at St. John's Military Academy at Del in Delafield. Then I went to Carroll College and then University School of Milwaukee in Brown Deere. And that was my last job before joining Illuminus. I happened to be at work. There was an employee of Illuminus that called me and said, Patty, they're hiring an executive chef. You need to apply right now. Next day I went in and talked, and I was offered the job as the executive chef at the health center.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

And what year was that? Because that would have been when we first met each other.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

February, yeah. February 5th, 2015.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

So you started with Illuminus and working in in one of the kitchens.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

And then your career has progressed quite a bit as the organizations continued to grow.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yep. And then I was offered the director role, food service director. I turned it down. So New Horizon Foods hired somebody else to take on that role. And I think she was in there for about a week and a half, and Matt basically said, You either get rid of this woman or we're going to lose Patty.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

And then my bosses came to me and said, Are you ready now? And I said yes. So then the rest is history. Yep. Then I was very involved with the town center.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

And that was back when we had just the one location.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah. And so let I want to talk uh about just kind of now your time in in uh in senior living. And you you had mentioned earlier that culinary services has been a passion of yours for really since you were a little little girl. Just talk more about what excites you about the culinary services.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Well, if you don't have food, you don't live. Food and water. Food is involved in almost every social aspect of everybody's life. I like to eat. So do I eat good food?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

I do too. Um good wine.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yes, and I like my food to look nice on a plate. I I'm just very passionate about it. When I turned 40, I went out and bought a new set of china, new silverware, invited 12 of my closest friends over to my home, made a seven-course meal. And when you invite 12 friends and it's your 40th birthday, it's a huge deal. And what do you want for your birthday? And I said, All I want is for you to come and let me do this for you. Do not bring me anything.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

And they were dumbfounded, and I said, you know, food is life, food is fun, and it's something that I can give. And I did it, it was great. And I carried on that tradition for many years of on my birthday, I make a meal for my friends.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Yeah. And is it different? Is it different providing those meals to children in a school than it is to seniors in a retirement community?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

The schools that I worked in, it was quite a bit different than the the seniors, but there also were similarities. With with seniors, we have modified diets, special diets, we have allergies, we have that. When it comes to seniors, they're on these diets because they have to be on these diets so that they don't get hurt, they can't swallow. It's similar but different.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah. You talk about how we need food to live and uh and how much enjoyment you get out of seeing other people enjoying the food that you make. Just talk about then, and you've worked in you, you're constantly working in in retirement communities, and so you get to see the joy that food brings to people. Can you just talk about those interactions?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Sure. I'll go back to when I interviewed at the Marcourt Health Center. I was told by one of the individuals interviewing me that I needed to understand that there are three times a day that these residents look forward to. It's breakfast, lunch, and supper.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

And if we don't knock it out of the park, they're not gonna be happy. That did not scare me at all. What scared me is I was used to working with kids. And now I'm gonna be working with seniors who at times can be very difficult in a different way than kids are difficult. So I had went home and thought about this, and is this really gonna be right for me? And I took on the challenge. And the first thing I did was be out in the dining room and talk to the residents, ask them how their food was, listen to them, go hold food committees, go to resident council, listen to them, listen to them tell their stories. And if you can give them food at the same time you're talking to them, and it's good food that they can enjoy, it's a win.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah, well, and you're a perfectionist. You you want it to be perfect for them. Yep. Which they appreciate for sure. Talk about the I mean, you have managed culinary staff for a very long time. Just talk about the challenges of working in in uh in culinary services in long-term care organizations. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

I think the biggest challenge is finding cooks that want to cook for seniors. If they have gone on to culinary school and they got a degree, they have this grandiose idea that they're gonna work for Gordon Ramsey in one of his restaurants or some five-star restaurant in a bigger city, and working in a kitchen and cooking for seniors to them is it's not attractive. So what I tell them is we have the ability to be as creative as we want. The majority of the residents are eating a regular diet, we cook from scratch, we make it flavorful for everybody, and you're not at work until two in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

But there's still that stigma: it's a nursing home, it's a senior living community, I don't want to work there. Anybody can throw some slop together. We don't serve slop to our residents. Illuminous is has got the gold standard, and that's what we live up to.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

And what what do you see as some of the we we talked about the challenges? What about the opportunities of working in culinary services? What do you see as those opportunities for people looking to get into this profession?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

I think if if you're working in culinary services in a senior living, your work-life balance is hugely different than if you're in a restaurant or a bar or a hotel, a golf course. If you work at a restaurant, a bar, a golf course, you're working every weekend. They have events.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Hotels are always busier on the weekend. Here, maybe every other weekend, you get to work and you're home, even if you work the evening, you're home by 7:30, 8 o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Right, versus 2 in the morning, two or three in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yep. And you're you're also serving the food to the same residents consistently. So if you get to know them, your job becomes pretty easy. You know what they like and what they don't like. Of course, they have that option to choose differently, but it's just easier. I think it's easier. I think it's more rewarding because you're seeing those people on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

And do you see many younger people getting into culinary services and kind of progressing through the ranks to where to where they someday will be a chef? Because there's a pretty nice career ladder there. Somebody is motivated.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

I will say that not as much now as I as I did in the beginning of my career. I know that I took several individuals within the Illuminati communities and mentored them and they had expressed interest. They really enjoyed working with the seniors as a dietary aid. And hey, maybe I could be a cook. Maybe you could. What do you know about it? Well, I cook at home. Okay, well, let's give it a try. So you start them out, they start prepping food up for the chefs, the cooks, and working side by side with them, seeing what they're doing. And then my expectation is anytime somebody new that doesn't have that experience or knowledge, and the cook does, that they will accept them and mentor them on past me helping them get to where they want to be.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah. Yeah, I think there's such a stigma around culinary services that they're low-paid jobs, you work really difficult hours seven days a week. But in in senior living, as you mentioned, it it doesn't have to be that way. And it can be a great career. It really can be.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah, I could not be happier that I made the change to senior living and being a part of the Illuminus family.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah. If you had to give advice to somebody looking to get into culinary or they're in it already and want to progress, what type of advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

I think my number one thing is get to know your residents. Listen to them. It doesn't matter if you're a dietary aide, a dishwasher, or a cook. You're gonna have contact with the residents at some point during the day, during the week. Take five minutes out of your day and talk to them. Get to know them because the more they know us in the kitchen, the happier they're going to be. The more comfortable they feel that, hey, I really know Patty. I can tell her that last night's supper was really, really bad, and she's gonna listen to me and correct it.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah. I know you're huge on cooking with fresh ingredients, fresh vegetables, fresh fruit. Talk a little bit about, you know, why you feel strong so strongly in that and the quality product that it can produce.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah, so if you start with fresh, the integrity of your food is gonna be much better. Once you freeze a vegetable, it's really hard to cook them the way they're supposed to be cooked. They're already soft coming out of the freezer when they thaw.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

You know, I hear oftentimes this farm to table concept. What is that does that have staying power? Are we gonna is this just a fad within culinary services?

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Or I don't think it's sustainable. I really don't. It's if you're gonna be a true farm to table, it's difficult. It's difficult regulation-wise. If I'm gonna go and raise fish in a farm or I'm gonna raise cattle, now I have to pay the USDA to be there when the you know the cattle is slaughtered. If it's true farm to table, you're doing everything on the farm, bringing it to the kitchen. Yeah, it's expensive, more so than buying from a vendor, just because all of the things you need to be in compliance.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

I it would be great if it was sustainable and affordable.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

And if there were people willing to raise the chickens, raise the cattle, do the big gardens. There's a lot that goes into it.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah. Yeah, we hear about it oftentimes in senior. I hear about it throughout the country, the farm to table concept. But for most organizations, when I talk to them, it is difficult to sustain. They do it for a while, but it's hard to have a you almost need to have your own farm where you're producing food.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

You talked earlier that you know, one of the things you enjoy is just the creativity of uh being a chef and working in culinary services. Can you elaborate more on that? The creativity and kind of what that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

I'm always looking at new ideas for catering events, different ways to present a salad.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

So is that what a lot of the creativity is? Is how you're presenting the food?

SPEAKER_00 18:27

It's the presentation. A lot of stuff is you how do you season a steak? You season it the same way all the time. But how are you gonna put that on the plate? What are you gonna use for the garnish?

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

What are you just gonna take a handful of lettuce and put it on a plate, put some cherry tomatoes, maybe some onions, and some cheese? Or are you gonna take some bread and make them round, cut a hole in the middle, take some lettuce and stick it through with your vegetables, make it look fancy and drill, drizzle some dressing? You're still getting the same thing. It just looks different. It's not the same old house salad that you get.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah, and from the the person enjoying the meal, what what's the difference for them?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

A lot of it is they've never seen it.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah. Wow. So just the wow factor.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, it's just the wow factor that it looks different.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah, and we've worked hard over the years together to try to continue to elevate that experience for our residents.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

And that's definitely a way that we can do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah, and that that is the nice thing about having the town center and the bistro and crave, you know, within the senior community in Watertown, yeah, is that that affords some creativity.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

How important do you think it is to have different dining venues in a senior living community?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

I think it's very important. I think when you have, you know, when you're the whole spectrum, independent living to end of life, having somewhere that the independent living residents can bring family and friends instead of sitting in their apartment and they have to cook the meal, they have to clean up after themselves. It's nice for them to be pampered and have that venue to go to.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah. For somebody that wants to get into culinary services, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Biggest advice I would give them is don't get into it unless you're passionate about it. Because if you're not passionate, you're not gonna produce the product that people want.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Right. It'll just be a job, not a not a profession.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

I also don't believe you need a culinary degree to go into it. So if you you've been cooking at home or, you know, you're the pancake maker, egg fryer, or something at a local cafe. Keep doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

And is that how most people start?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

They don't have formal training, they just it's it's one of those you learn on the job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

I think the only, you know, unless you want to work for Gordon Ramsay, you probably don't need a culinary degree.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, yeah. How do you think it'll change over ha has it evolved a lot, culinary services? And if so, is it kind of what's the next evolution or what's the next greatest thing?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

I think humans aren't gonna be cooking anymore, to be quite honest.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

People don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Looking into the future, no.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

They have kitchens, but that don't want to use them. They and do you think some and do you think some of that though is just the social interaction?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

I think it's the social, and I think people are afraid.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah, they're just they didn't grow up cooking, they don't want to try new things.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

No. And they, you know, they don't have a palate, so that means they need a recipe, and if you cook by a recipe, you're you make more dishes than are necessary, and if you don't have the proper measuring cups and measuring spoons, then they just throw. The towel because they don't think they can do it.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Huh. When you uh when we look 20 years into the future, what do you hope changes from a culinary perspective in senior living?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

I would hope there would be more people that are passionate and actually want to work in that. I was kind of looked at that question a little bit different and had a vision of in 20 years what would I hope a senior community looks like.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

I believe people are staying in their homes longer. There's more need for home health. So on the culinary side, I don't even know if it's possible, but producing food and having that be part of the home health where they get these kind of like a meals on wheels, but they're purchasing a package. Like an upscale, upscale meals. You know, we we need this, these cares for our, you know, our health. We need help with this. We need help with this. Yes, we have a kitchen, but we don't really cook in it. It'd really be nice if we could buy a package where we got a meal or two a day that was delivered as part of our cares. And then I thought, you know, it'd be really cool to have a concept of a new community where there's it's almost like little, I'll just call them huts. They would be apartments for independent living that you'd be able to stay in until end of life, but each pod would be connected, so you could still give the cares, but they're individual apartments with maybe a small kitchen. And if that stuff can all be turned off when somebody can't utilize them anymore, but they're feeling more like they're at home instead of in an institutional setting of having a room with a bathroom and a bed and a chair.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Yeah. For for residents that live in independent living apartments, how do they cook at one meal a day? Or are they cooking two or three meals a week?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I guess it just depends who they are. I think some of the independent living residents in the Illuminous communities cook the majority of their meals.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

And is the for most people is the noon meal still their biggest?

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Their biggest meal. As you get older, you don't eat heavy at night because you're going to bed earlier and then it just sits in your stomach.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

And in Minnesota, do you call it supper or dinner?

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Supper.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Supper.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

I I've gone to evening meal because when I say suppers, there are some people that don't even know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Do you see regional differences and in kind of people's eating habits or even in their palates of what they like to eat?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yes, there's even a difference between Minnesota and Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

There's a difference between Minnesota and Wisconsin, and then even within Wisconsin, there's a difference. And so what are some of those differences?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Communities near Milwaukee are different than Madison communities. Just the culture, the food that they grew up eating.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

And so is one more.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

We serve grits in the Milwaukee area. People like grits?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

I'm not sure they would go over real well in Madison unless it was a fancy shrimp and grits meal.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah. How many different diets are there?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

There's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

And how challenging is that?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

The biggest challenge is getting the product to make those and the amount of the product that we have to buy. Yeah, for the different diets. Everything we buy has to come in a case.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah. What's the most difficult diet to manage or cook cook to?

SPEAKER_00 25:57

I would say if somebody is a true celiac, that would be the most difficult, and we truly can't prepare food for them.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Because we don't have a gluten-free kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Right. There's so much gluten.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

And you walk into any kitchen, there's gonna be flour in it, and it's gonna be in the air. So if somebody is a severe celiac, they could get sick.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Even though we're preparing food made without gluten for them.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yeah. Talk a little bit about the regulatory challenges as it relates to culinary services. You talked about your alluded to it earlier.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

It's following the recipes is the hardest thing for me.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Um just because you don't like to follow recipes. I don't like to follow recipe. You'd like to be creative.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

I like to be creative. I like to make it the way I like it to be, and maybe make it a little bit different, give it some more flavor without adding salt. There's so much you can do without adding salt, which we don't add any salt to our our food for our healthcare side of our dining program.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Patty, thank you for joining me today. It was a lot of fun to talk to you and get your views on uh culinary services in a senior living organization. We have greatly appreciated working with you uh here at Illuminous. And thank you for watching.