Richmond Is Relearning Connection: Aspen DeRosa on Photography, Sobriety & Community #033

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In this episode of Vera House Unscripted, we sit down with Aspen DeRosa, a Richmond-based photographer, educator, and community builder.

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We talk about Aspen’s approach to photography as people-focused work, including how they help subjects feel comfortable, present, and confident in front of the camera. The conversation covers them teaching at the Visual Arts Center of Richmond, how education informs their creative practice, and what it means to balance multiple roles as a working creative.

We also discuss sobriety within Richmond’s music and creative scenes, including the realities of navigating social spaces without alcohol and the work Aspen is doing through Riffs and Recovery to build intentional, sober-friendly community spaces. The episode touches on non-alcoholic culture, local collaborations, and how events and gatherings can be designed around presence and connection rather than drinking.

Throughout the conversation, we explore photography, teaching, sobriety, and community building as practical, lived experiences, with a focus on how people show up for themselves and each other in creative spaces.

Quick interjection to invite you to Vera House Studios. If you are a local Richmond business, entrepreneur, brand owner, or service provider—and you know you need to create better content to get your products and services in front of the right people—we can help.

Transcript

0:01

Welcome back to the Vera House Podcast. On today's episode, we welcome Aspen DeRosa, a creative Richmond entrepreneur, socialite, and connector of all things and all people. Recent winner of Style Weekly's 40 Under 40 Award, they're a mega-talented professional photographer who has shot some of the most iconic people, bands, and festivals in RVA. They're even a teacher at the Visual Arts Center of Richmond, where they teach on a variety of topics, including photo and creative direction. Founder of Riffs and Recovery, a weekly meeting of the minds of lovers of music who are all on a path to sobriety. Their motto is, the juice is always worth the squeeze. Welcome to the show, Aspen DeRosa. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for being here. So tell us about Style Weekly and 40 Under 40. Was the juice worth the squeeze? The juice is always worth the squeeze. What was that like? How did that unfold? It was really cool. I was nominated for Riffs and Recovery, and it was really just an honor to be recognized among so many of Richmond's most talented people. It was just really cool to meet everybody and be recognized in that way. So what was the experience like? When did you find out? How did you find out? How did it all unfold? Yeah, so they sent an email to me and Matt, the co-founder of Riffs, sharing an email. And they sent us an email saying that we had both been nominated. Matt had just turned 40. So we were like, no. No longer qualified. I know. So we were joking. We were like, oh, God, got to get you in the nomination. But yeah, so I was nominated. So me and him went together to the party. But first they told us in, I think it was September. And then I did my photo that month as well with Scott Elmquist, who's a legend in the area. And then the party was in November, and then it dropped into like physical copies then as well. And it was cool to see, like to get to do the interview process and talk a little bit about Riffs and like how it started was really fun. We've done a little bit of press before, but it was cool to see something in a physical media because I love to see it physically printed out. Yeah. Yeah. And it was fun to meet everybody. And the event that they had was really cute. That's awesome. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Is there like a, is there a 50 under 50? I guess like the older, imagine there's like a 100 under 100 and it's just a big old geezer party. I would love that. I mean, sign me up. I mean, yeah. Y'all would be number one. It's always 30 under 30, 40 under 40. Where's the 50 under 50? Yeah. Where's the 60 under 60? I'm saying. Right. Let's just keep it going. People do cool stuff at all ages. I want an award too. Yeah. Y'all deserve an award. Yeah. Hey, I could make 40 under 40. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, no one knows who I am yet. Yet. Yeah. Yeah. We're working on that. That's kind of. Style. We're going to make it big, mom. You're almost there. Yeah. So I've noticed just looking through your account and your website and some of the pictures you've done, you have a really unique style, like personal fan of like that style and the way that you're, you're kind of your vision for how to showcase people is like displayed with you, all of your promo and all of the photos that you've done. How would you describe like that style? Thank you. Um, I would describe my style as, I would say vibrant and energized. I like to try to capture people when they don't feel the stiffness of being in front of a camera. I often think about how like invasive a camera can be in somebody's face and how anxiety provoking it can be to be photographed and seen in that way. Because technically like, aren't our brains not even supposed to see ourselves like we're not even supposed to see ourselves regularly. So now with social media, I think the pressure to like, accept the way we look is a lot higher and people want to display the things that they're doing and the versions of themselves that they are. So I try to kind of get people to a place where they feel like they can express themselves authentically and a lot of my stuff has a lot of movement. I like to capture kind of in between moments of people's like lives or experiences. So if it's an event and people are dancing, like I'm on that dance floor dancing with my camera, and it's just fun, I guess I try to just capture like the authenticity behind who people really are. That's awesome. And I mean, it matches perfectly why, you know, we wanted to connect with you. Because I do think that that translates through social media and through the screen, you know, I think at first glance, very easy to tell that like you're a creative person, that you have a fun personality, that you're a talented photographer, and that you have a lot of great things going for you. And it does, it takes like a certain personality type, to get the person on the other side of the camera to kind of like open up and feel comfortable. You know, and we experience a little bit of course, having people on the podcast as well, it's kind of a similar process. So can definitely relate in some way or another and understand what you mean. And it's true, like it's where we're living in a world where we're forced to think about the impression that we make on other people, because it's such a big part of our life, right, like photos, social media, being on video, all these different things. And yeah, it is something that not everybody's comfortable with. Yeah. Well, sorry, I'm going to jump in there. Curious, just kind of on that point, you know, it takes the type of person to make people feel comfortable in front of the camera, because you know yourself that it can be uncomfortable. So there's some empathy there. There's some, you know, consideration about how that person may be perceiving the situation that they're in this, the set, the cameras, the lights, and then the final product, they're probably worried or anxious about what the photos are going to look like, how they are going to be perceived by other people. That's really the biggest concern. How do you handle that scenario, like when you're on the other side of the camera? So you know, you can have that empathy, but I would imagine it came from experience. Well, absolutely. I think I'm a firm believer that anyone doing portrait photography should have experience on the other side of the lens, just to know how it feels to have a camera in your face. And then with that, through doing my own experiences with modeling, silence is really scary when you're being photographed and not seeing the process as it's happening. So some photographers are like, click, click. All right. Thank you. Which is everybody has their own workflow. But I really like to make it a collaborative experience. And I'm also really sensitive to the language around photography. Like I think take a photo is kind of shoot very violent language. So I try to and I when I teach this, I also say like, it's a collaborative experience. So can I make a portrait with you versus can I take a photo of you? Because it's just like, let me take your soul. I'm like, no, let's make something together. This is if you're in my photo. What makes the photo good is the fact that you are in it. So I want you to feel a part of that collaboration. I love that. Yeah. And I don't know a ton about photography, you know, I know a little bit from just being around cameras and stuff. But I do know, you know, I talk a lot about content creation and speaking on camera and public speaking. And it's very similar where you say you're kind of teaching people not to speak at people, but to speak with them, you know, and it's yeah, definitely draws a parallel. Yeah. So the first time we came across you, we've spoken about you on the show before is you made an appearance during a segment where we talked about the Richmond boyfriend photo boot camp. Yes. How did it go? What is it? And who was like the standout all star? Did we have any boyfriends like really step their game up? Well, first of all, it was really fun. I think the funniest thing was me set up at Scuffle Town Park with my sign and people walking by and they're like, what the hell is this? I'm like, listen, I've heard too many divas complain about being done so wrong by their partner. And I think like nothing sucks more than when you're like, babe, can you take a picture of me? And then you're like, why is it chopped? Like this is not going to, this is not good. Um, and I think also like a lot of, um, boyfriends that I've witnessed don't think to just take a photo of their partner. And I think that's something that can in this day and age when like you want to feel seen and photos are a way to do that. It can just make people feel really good if you're just like, you just look cute, so I'm just going to take a pic. Yeah. I think it's helpful on game, but also helping like, I think it's like a intimacy building exercise to be photographing each other. Um, but it went well. Some people didn't make it at the last minute, so it was a smaller turnout than I expected, but it was a really good like trial run. I had my megaphone, I had my full outfit, I had a whistle at a playlist and the people definitely improved throughout the bootcamp, like from the baseline analysis tests that I conducted at the start to the end, we made some severe progress. That was cool. Yeah. So the boyfriends were out there showing up and trying to honey, they were sweating. Yeah. I said, drop and give me 20 picks now. Yeah. Well, I think it's good that, yeah, you gave it a run through too, because the reason we talked about it on the show is because we're like, well, what is it? Right. And I'm sure other people have that same question too. So now that you've kind of given it a rep, now you have an example of like, this is what it is. And, you know, I think the thing that stops people from showing up to events is that they don't know what to expect. Exactly. Now they can see and have some expectations around it. And yeah, take two will be even bigger and better. I'm sure. I'm hyped for take two. And I also had someone there doing content creation to get a little bit of like, this is what it actually looks like. So I actually forgot to finish editing that content. So I should probably put it in there, put it in the note, add it to my menu of the week. But yeah, I'm glad that we got that experience and then it was like a smaller turnout. So I could really focus on, okay, for the future iterations of this. And that's kind of what teaching is, like when I'm developing curriculum for things like we got to start somewhere and then I'm like, okay, wait, I'm learning a lot through teaching this to you. What needs a little bit of extra time versus what can kind of be breezed through. Yeah. Yeah. And you said, you know, curriculum and teaching, you're an educator as well. So you teach a myriad of things. You mentioned you're at the Viz Arts Center. What are you teaching over there? So currently I'm teaching a capturing authenticity portrait class, which is all about kind of directing your subjects and helping them open up in front of the camera, um, as well as like portrait basics. And then I'm also teaching a making music videos class that one's new. I'm teaching basic, uh, intro to photography class for beginners. And what's the last one? I think it's just a portrait class and then I have a couple of one day workshops. So those are all multi-week classes. And then I have a couple of one day workshops for portrait photography and lighting. So I try to offer a variety of different photographic related classes that are in like different time spans. So if people just want to do a quick sprint on a Saturday with me, 10 to four, let's run it. But then also the multi-week option for people as well for people that need needs to like sink in a little bit longer. Yeah. That's super cool. So being an educator is I think something that I will eventually get into because I, I like the act of teaching somebody something that they didn't already know or that they're, maybe they're involved in or kind of know a little bit about it or low, know a lot about it, but then it being able to teach them something that they didn't already like know about this subject matter. And, you know, for me, school was in my strong suit growing up, visual learner, tactile learner, didn't like math, didn't like the class structure, but I liked learning things. I liked absorbing knowledge just, you know, in an unconventional way. So anyone who's an educator, I already commend just for the act of being willing to teach people because it can be a little, you know, it can be a little tough, I'm sure, but there's a lot of fulfillment in it, I would assume. Oh yeah. And I love the Visual Arts Center because it's a non-degree seeking educational opportunity. Like when I was teaching at, I used to teach at University of Iowa when I was getting my master's degree and that was undergraduate students who are burnt out and like they're seeking this degree. So a lot of it's just like, let me fulfill this assignment versus I'm just doing this because I want to learn something. And I also just love watching people have their light bulb moments. And I learn a lot through what gives people their light bulb moment, like explaining how to use a camera to someone who's never used one is so confusing, like, okay, so imagine it's like an eye, like it's this whole, like, but watching that moment of when they're like, wait, I finally get it. And the confidence that comes from learning is just really fulfilling to me. That's cool. I've been using cameras for like 12 years and I still haven't had that moment. I'm like, I don't know, man, can you help me out? That's real, honey. They're confusing tools. Yeah, I have my settings and I'm just like, all right, don't change it. Just leave it. Just put it on auto. Real set it and forget it. Yeah. That's totally me. So when was the first time that you like picked up a camera and it kind of clicked for you and you realized that you had a future that involved cameras? Lord drop. I started taking photos when I was four. Wow. So my uncle was a photographer. He was like into photography and he let me use like a film camera of his and when they got the photos developed, I guess my mom was like, this is actually kind of good. Like some of these are actually funny and cute. So they let me use a Polaroid camera once, which at four years old, I mean, developmentally wasn't the best. So they got me a Fisher price film camera. It's like two handles. I still have it. It's really cutie. Um, and I would, it was like my favorite toy. So from there I just started as I grew up, my dad had like a DSLR camera. He let me start playing with that when I was in middle school and I would always just photograph my brothers. I was really drawn to photographing people from an early age and if people weren't available, then I'd like put my Barbies together and be like, all right, girls, like this is your moment. And then, uh, in high school I started taking all the photo classes possible. So we had regular photo class and then we had, it was called Academy, so they'd bus us to a different school and I did like a studio lighting class and it was my, uh, junior and senior year photo teacher, Ms. Mamadis, if you're watching this, I love you. She was like, you should go to art school. Like I think you actually could be a photographer. And at that point I was like, I don't really think like, how would I have a career in photography? Like at that point I wanted to be a therapist cause I'm, I'm also interested in the brain and like neuroscience and psychology. Um, but the concept of making money and a career in photography was like, seemed impossible. She helped me make my whole portfolio to go to school. She was like, these are the photos you should include, write your essay, I'll review it. And then when I got into VCU, I was like, oh wait, maybe I could actually be a photographer. So then once a undergrad at VCU, um, went to grad school in Iowa. And at that point I was like, okay, I'm ready. Like I've studied this, I understand this, like I'm quick with it. I have the personality, like I'm wanting to send it. It's so cool learning about you. Cause you mentioned this word, like when I asked you, like, tell me about who you are, you said multifaceted and, uh, yeah, clearly that's true. Right. What was your master's in? Photography and sculpture. Cool. Oh yeah, that's right. You mentioned sculpture. Doesn't VCU have like a great sculpture program or they're known for sculpture? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got to take some of the, uh, sculpture classes at VCU and that's where bevel cut came from. Oh, look at that, man, we're connected. We're learning all kinds of stuff today. That's so cool. Do they also teach like, so you learned sculpture in school as well? Yeah. Do they teach like the history of all that? Like, uh, like, you know, Michelangelo and like all that cool stuff. Like, do they teach like, um, like the history, like going back to the history buff right here? Oh, I had to take a lot of art history classes. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very interesting. I took, um, yeah. Some like niche ones. Like I took like gender and sexuality in art in Renaissance period in grad school. That was a really cool class. Yeah. So a lot of history, but with sculpture stuff, like the classes at VCU, it was less extensive because it was like my minor. So I would take a couple of credits in that. But then in grad school I got to take like site-specific installations, um, a class about like recycling materials in sculpture. And that was when I really like learned a lot of the skills that I still want to reintegrate into my practice now. Yeah, that is cool. I could totally go off on a tangent about like old Egyptian sculptures, but yes, but I won't. Yeah. You're like, Oh yeah, he will. He will go off. Uh, I, I started on a path to art school. Like I took AP art in high school. I took photography class. I took graphic design. Um, yeah. And all I ended up was just being a guy wearing a turtleneck. So, you know, but you've got a chain. True. So it's very artsy chain, transitive property. You could be a sculptor. I'm like a fake artist. You know, some would say, I think you're a real artist. Thank you. Thank you. Respect. Anytime. Um, so how did you determine like a, like a lane, you know, and I mean, you're in many lanes, right. But, you know, are you still involved in sculpture or like. So it is something that I've had to put more on the back burner as I run my own business full time. And I have a lot of, I have a lot of hobbies and interests. Like I like to work out, I like to box. I like to sing. I like to write music. Um, I like to go for walks in the rain. Like there's just simply not enough time in the day. Yeah. Like, so I've had to kind of focus my lens, if you will, on photography for the time being. But as I was setting my new, I do my new year on my birthday. So on my birthday, I was setting goals for the new year and I really want to get back into sculpture. So I set up my apartment so that I can do that because everything was just kind of stored away and having my sewing machine like out and ready to go is like very key because a lot of my sculptures start with fabric and I like to work in the corners of rooms. But also a lot of my stuff with sculpture is like, I'll have an idea and I'm like, what medium is this? So sometimes I'm learning the medium as I'm working on the sculpture. Like I did a project about grief in grad school and I was like, this all has to be beeswax because I want the smell to be an aspect of it and I want it to melt over time. So that's something that is like at the top priority, I would say for this next year of my life. I'll be 30 next year. So in my last year, my 20s, I want to tap back into everything that brought me joy throughout my 20s. And sculpture is like a big part of that. That's cool. Very cool. Yeah. 30s are the best. 30s? Frontal lobe development and money. Look at that. You already know. You already know. That's a great way to describe your 30s. The frontal lobe development is real. But yeah, 30s, man, that's looking back on my 30s, which was for the last 10 years. More life. Seriously. It was the most formative, the most informative, the most adventurous, and like the most. Now that I look back and can like really reflect on it, the most growth in that amount of time. Like your 20s are great. You learn what you learn for the most part, and some of it sticks, some of it doesn't. You change your mind. You adopt some new things. In your 30s, what sticks usually starts to get cemented and kind of more concrete and you kind of have more vision about what the future looks like. More money because you figured out what you want to do. And then, you know, as time goes on, there was a moment for me, I don't know if it happens for everybody else, but that moment of like, oh man, I grew up. I'm like, I'm more grown now. Like in your 20s, you don't really notice the time passing and then you're getting older. You're like, oh yeah, my birthday, my birthday, my birthday. Let's have a party. 32 hits. 33 hits. You're like, oh, I grew up like a lot and I kind of can't do the things that I did six years ago or even two years ago. I need to like think about what being a grown up is, doing the grown up things, whether that's career, whether that's home life, relationships, what have you. But there was definitely a moment, I'm like, shit, did I get older? Like, did I? No, I definitely grew up and it was cool. It wasn't like a bad realization. It was like an eye opening. Like, oh man, this is, this is pretty tight. I think I like what's happening now. I love that. I definitely try to reject the concept of like aging is negative and like, oh, like your 20s, like you're pushing 30. Like I'll hear that comment from like men sometimes. I'm like, I feel like 30 is the best time to be like 30s plus seems like, because 20s, I was like, what the hell is happening every single day? Yeah. So I'm like, and I'm broke. Yeah. And it's, you know, like, I think we're, it's safe to say like, we all do our best to not fit into like the standard normal box that society gives us. And I think age is, you know, like, yes, age is a, you know, biometric counter, I guess. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, you choose to accept like, oh, I'm an old fart or not. You know, it's like, there, you know, there will always be like a childish aspect to me. And it's like the, the longer I can stay a kid and keep that like imagination and creativity, the better. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's like, hang on to all that throughout your 30s, 40s, 60s, whatever, you know? Yes. Definitely. That's the vibe. That's the plan. That's the type shit that we are on. Yeah. And we're going to be those old guys, women, people that still kind of dress the way we dress now. I feel like this is the generation that's going to have like the most swag in the 60s and 70s. Definitely. And like, I, I mean, I'm already confident of the childlike nature of like just the stuff that I like to do. My, I think I've heard this from a few people, but people in their 60s and their 70s and their 80s, when you ask them how old they are, how old they feel, rather, they say they feel like 20 years younger. But then they also say that I remember, like, I feel like I'm 30, but like I have, you know, I'm slower to get around. It takes me a little time to do some certain things. I can't think as quick. I'm not, you know, you know, fly on my toes or whatever, but they still feel like they are, you know, in their 30s or in their late 20s because I feel like emotionally and spiritually and mentally you become the fully formed version of yourself when you're in your adolescent years and then your body just gets older. Like you can say that I'm aging, but that's just the physical manifestation of time passing. You, the fully formed, fully vision of visualized version of yourself is pretty much like, as it is the childlike, the, you know, the imagination, the wonder, the, you know, the interest in all these different hobbies and things that that's never going away. You're just going to, you know, probably be, it's going to be harder for you to go to the bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that idea. Cause I think like, you know, hopefully living a long life, there's so much like time to explore different things and there's no rush, but at the same time, like the core of who you are is the same. Sorry. I keep hitting this thing. That's all right. Like, I'm like, I want to learn drums at some point, but I want to learn drums when I'm like 60. Yeah. You know, like, I just think that'd be sick. Yeah. That would be sick. Uh, well, speaking of like all this childish stuff, uh, which is awesome, we had a great time today. Yeah. It was fun. Like having a lot of fun. And it, you know, it connects to what we said earlier about, you know, having the right person behind the camera is what can allow the person on the other side of the lens to yeah. Open up, be themselves, have fun, be carefree, not over think about like, what do I look like? And you know, all this other stuff. Um, and so for anybody listening, we just spent, I mean, like a few hours, a few hours hanging out with Aspen. She took some amazing photographs of us, which I'm sure you'll see at some point. And yeah, it was fun, you know? And I think like, I personally, I've had my photo taken a bunch, but not in this sort of like fun, intentional, creative style. And I think it's like, it's exactly why we reached out to you. Um, it was a blast and we, yeah, you bring out like that childish side a little bit and have fun with it. Cause it's like, yeah, nobody likes a stiff upper lip LinkedIn headshot, you know, it's like that's lame, you know, and has a time and a place. Right. But you know, as creative people, we wanted another creative soul to come and hang out with us. And like, we don't even have to say anything. You just get it. Uh, and, uh, we can't thank you enough. We're super grateful for like your skills and your time and, uh, just hanging out with us and like having fun with it. So that was super cool. Hopefully you enjoyed it and had fun too. Had a blast. We had this man upside down in a chair. Yes. Yeah. We'll have to do all, we'll have to do like an upside down episode of the podcast. That's got to be the move. Yeah. For the April fools episode. Yeah. That'd be a good idea. So April fools this year, you'll see us upside down in the chair. We'll have to mount the microphones upside down and everything. Hey, we can do that. We can handle it. I mean, every other crazy idea we've come up with we've done so far. So sky's the limit. We can't not do the upside down world. That'd be a good one. Um, but yeah. So what are your favorite types of, you know, assignments or shoots that you, you know, you find yourself working and you think like, it doesn't even feel like I'm working. Like this is fun. I'm having a blast. I would do this every day if I could. Like what are the, what types of shoots are those or what, you know, what does that look like? Oh, I would say concerts and events are probably, and portraits with creative people, but particularly events where I just get to be a fly on the wall and like witness people enjoying their lives and not stressed and just like dancing and being in community with each other. I'm kind of a cry baby in that when I see that I'm like crying every single time. Like anytime I'm shooting at the national, if I'm shooting a event, like a birthday party wedding, like I'm crying cause I'm just like, finally people get a moment to like relax and just enjoy their lives. And I'm just here to document it. And I like as someone that likes to capture movement and motion, people not posing is really refreshing because they're not as focused about once they like get used to me being there, they're not really focused about where I am. And I enjoy just being able to kind of float around and do what I need to do. But then working with other artists or creative people on like personal branding, like stuff like we did today, um, cover art for people, music videos, like anything where I get to really collaborate with an artist and they're trusting me and my creative vision, it just is really fun. It doesn't feel like work at all. Like every single day I truly wake up and I'm like, wow, I get to do this as my job. Like this is what four-year-old Aspen was like, that's not even what, what's the job? Like let alone being a photographer. So it's really fun every day and every, even the things that are like, like, oh, I need to do a headshot. And that's fun because I'm like, I get to take your headshot. Like it's just an honor every time. So it's all fun, but concerts are, it's fun. I be dancing around with my camera. I feel like some of the best photographers are the ones that have like the emotional intelligence to spot those moments, you know? So considering not that you said you were an empath, but like, if you have that feeling and that's kind of like how you are, then you probably spot those moments, right? Cause it's like, you see it and then you're like, that's the moment or that's the shot or that's the thing, you know, it helps you capture that. You were even saying while we were shooting a minute ago, you were like, I was, you know, making a pose and you had the camera and it's, you were like, it's like, you're, you're reading my mind. Yeah. I know. Like you're, you're just doing the moves and that's what I wanted to happen. And we're like synced up and that's just, it's bang on. Yeah. It's like, we enter like flow state together and yeah, I think definitely being like a super sensitive person makes photography, like, I understand the weight of an image really intensely. And so I like want to do those moments justice and it's actually crazy, especially being sober as a photographer at shows, like, I'll be like, Oh, I need to move over to this side of the venue for some reason. And then like, they're doing something crazy right there and it's just, I'm always in the right place at the right time. And I think a lot of that is like being sensitive and trusting my intuition, but also being sober and able to hear that intuition. That is a big part of it. And I think like understanding the weight of a photo is everything. And it's, it, it takes, you know, and I wouldn't know cause I'm not a photographer, but like my understanding of it or my like thought about it is that it takes two in a way, like, you know, you need the other person on the other side to like, in some sense, feel the weight too. Cause you want them to like be in it and be there and yeah, you want them to be like free and carefree. But I guess what I'm saying is when I was thinking about photos today and coming into it, you, at least me, I think ahead and I think, man, it'll be so cool to like, look back at photos of when we started this project, you know? And it's like, yeah, imagine being 50 years old and you look back and it's like, dude, I remember that day. Yeah. You know? And it's like, but you did that on purpose. It's not, and don't get me wrong, candid photos are great too, but it's like, it's fun to say this is a moment in time that you're capturing and like, yeah, you went out of your way to say I'm going to express myself and like show my style and my expression and my mood and like just capture and document that moment in time. And I do think that's why, you know, you have celebrities that go and do like, you know, a specific photo shoot for Vogue or Time Magazine or something. And they end up being like iconic photos that you just like remember forever. And you got to imagine that they feel the same way looking back at those photos. Like they remember being there and they remember like where they were at in their life at that time. So yeah, I think if like, if you got the right people to tango, like a photo can be really, really meaningful. Oh, absolutely. And I think a lot also, a part of, I think the emotional aspect of the honor of photographing people is knowing that I could, first of all, take their favorite photo of them, but also a photo that tells their story beyond their own life. Like when I was 20, 21 of my best friends passed away and at her funeral, a photo that I took of her was distributed to everybody. And to see that, like, first of all, a lot of people that kind of knew her or wanted to come and pay respects, like that's the photo they have of her. And to be able to take a photo of someone that means so much to me, that is the image that people look at when they think of her life is like, that was the first time where I was like, wow, like this is beyond just like, ha, like, look how cute you look. Like this is like real shit. So I think about that when I take a photo of anybody, I'm like, this could be like the photo that like paints the picture of their life. And that's like such an honor. Yeah. Jeez. That gives me chills like thinking about it. To be honest. It's crazy. Yeah. Cause like this encompasses their spirit enough for this to be the photo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned it when you just were kind of leading up to that story, like the honor of being able to take that picture. Cause you like, you might take the picture that changes someone's perception of who they are and that, that changes irrevocably. I mean, that just, that can set a new benchmark, benchmark for them personally or professionally and emotionally and spiritually and all of that. And you know, it's a job short, you know, and that comes with what it means to have this job in this profession, but it, yeah, it is an honor because the word capture is right in the description for being a photographer. You're capturing these moments, you're capturing somebody in a moment as they exist at that point in time. And the way you do that can change how they see themselves, how the world sees them. So you do have a lot of, it's a, you know, it takes a lot of awareness, but it is an honor to be able to do that for people. Yeah. And it also, I think, can breathe a lot of life into people's ideas and projects, which has this like ripple effect of their art because like for an artist needing cover art, they see the photo and they're like, wow, wait, this like fits the song so well. Now I believe in this song in a way that I didn't before without being able to see it or like personal branding, like, oh, now we have photos for whatever it is. And it's just, yeah, it's cool to be able to have a part in helping other artists like bring their art forward. That is really cool. So you mentioned other artists, right? So do you find yourself, are there specific pieces of advice that you find yourself often repeating when you're teaching new photographers or photographers that are trying to like improve their career? Do you find yourself revisiting certain pieces of advice or certain like topics? Hmm. I feel like it depends because certain people come to me for different types of advice. Like some people want like the business side of it. Like how do I make my contract? But other people are more focused on how do I get people to open up in front of the camera? And I always kind of, I feel like one of the most common things I'll suggest is like you want to match the energy of the person that you're photographing. So, but also if someone's really shy, it might benefit them to spend more time building rapport. So it kind of is like, you really have to feel out the vibe. Like I lead a lot with feeling and I kind of adjust myself as needed. Like if someone's having a really heavy day or it's like a really heavy shoot, like I did a photo for someone whose birthday it was and they were like, I'm trying to like come in to my body as like a person, like in their thirties, like I'm trying to reclaim my body. And so that was like a really celebratory shoot where I'm like, I'm going to get you some flowers and we're going to celebrate the fact that you're like having this huge moment in your life. And so I feel like just matching the energy of the people. And also I've suggest like having a little pre-shoot thing that you'll say or like letting people know, like it might feel weird in your body, but it looks great on camera and then showing them like, see, no, didn't that feel weird, but look at how it looks like. I think just keeping people involved in the collaboration process is like probably the most important thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's everything that we just said, right? Like even being upside down in the chair with some silly glasses on, right? Like if you were just by yourself, I'd be looking in the mirror, I'll be like, what am I doing? Yeah. Right. And you're like, you know, you're coaching and you're, and you're encouraging people, encouraging the, the silliness and the goofy atmosphere of the shoot. And that opens up, you know, another aspect of how your subject or like us or anybody you're shooting maybe feels about the shoot itself and feels about what the outcome could be. It's like, maybe they went into it with a little reservation. They're like, oh, you know, I'm not really feeling that great about it. I don't think I like this shirt. And then you're like, oh yeah, you're looking, you're killing it. And then you're getting goofy with it and the walls come down and then they're upside down with glasses on. Yeah. And that's how you get the best photo of their life. Yeah. No, exactly. I mean, it was so much fun. Yeah. I'm so glad. No, I had fun too. Y'all are really fun to work with. Yeah. Likewise. And I always joke that I'm like a hype man slash photographer because I'm like, I'm going to gas you up. Totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. That's how you, that's how you started. You're like, put on some music. Does this hype you up? Is this, is this juicy enough? Like, yeah, I know what we're getting into now. Yeah. Juice worth the squeeze. You know what I'm saying? I love it. I love it. Let's take a moment to thank today's sponsor. So today's episode is sponsored by Point5, Richmond's first standalone alcohol-free beverage shop right here in Carytown. And of course you're familiar with Point5 as well. Oh yeah. So Point5 is not just for those who are sober and sober curious. It's for all of us who just want something different to sip on. They carry everything from non-alcoholic beers and wines to nootropic drinks built for focus and creativity, along with functional beverages like THC, CBD, kava, and other plant-based options for mood, relaxation, relaxation, and energy. They also offer gluten-free and dairy-free options, including NA beers, wines, and functional spirits that work for a variety of dietary preferences. Visit verahouse.co slash point five for a 10% off voucher and be sure to visit them right here in Carytown. It's verahouse.co slash p-o-i-n-t and the number five, simply screenshot the voucher and use it at your next visit. So I know you've done plenty of collaborations with a lot of the people that we've also collaborated with or that we've supported or kind of just been in the same sphere, such as Celeste Farms and of course Point5, many other things as well. But what are the types of collaborations that you've done or how are you familiar with Point5? So I'm familiar with Point5 because at Gallery5, where we host Rest and Recovery, they collaborated with us on our mocktail menu. So we have three options that include Point5, NA spirits, and then three that have mother shrub vinegar, shrub mixtures, and the three with the Point5 stuff. So divine. Like, oh my God, we have a margarita, we have a lemon drop, and we have a jumping juniper, which she's just her own diva, like, I don't know how to explain her, but they're really, really yummy. And Point5 has just been so supportive in our mission and Gallery5 has been so supportive in our mission and getting to collaborate with both of them to have this menu now be a part of the permanent menu. So it started off, it was just for our one month anniversary or our one year anniversary in July. And then Gallery5 said, we want to bring this onto our menu full time and Point5 is how we're able to do that. So we love them. We love Point5. Yes, NA spirits, the NA margarita, like we were talking earlier that it's really good. I'm a big fan of margaritas. And if it's anything like a real margarita, I'm sold, like I'm in. And they're probably using this, the Almave non-alcoholic tequila, Lewis Hamilton, the tequila guy. Yeah. Yeah. It's divine. It's delicious. I want to have one as a crew because it's so delicious. Because margarita was like my favorite Bev. Like I'm one thing that I missed when I got sober was like a margarita with a dip trio. Yeah. You mean I can't like chips, the dip, sitting outside in the sun. Yes. Like bruh. Poolside margarita. But now you can still have that and you don't have to worry about sacrificing your sobriety for it. You can have this at breakfast if you wanted to. I'm saying. Breakfast margarita, you go. YOLO. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy how much the NA space has advanced in like, you know, even just the past couple years. But of course, compared to like five, six, seven years ago, there was like nothing. Yeah. It was just exploded. It was like Heineken zero or O'Doul's, water, water, water, water, ginger ales like I've had five. I'm good. Yeah. It was like, would you like another Sprite and grenadine, sir? It's like, no, thanks. Like I'm good on that actually. Yeah. But they're super supportive. We love them as well. So part of our journey and all the beverages that anybody sees on this show are from point five. Let's go. And they're opening a new location in Williamsburg, so be a new location opening in Williamsburg. And then they're also doing an event with Celeste Farms on the 31st. So people have to take a look at that. It's they've partnered with Celeste, you know, multiple times in the past, but it is a social tonics and dinner on January 31st. Yeah. Yeah, like if you haven't been to Celeste Farms, you definitely need to go and check it out. And the point five collaboration with them is just another reason that it's going to be a vibe like the place is already great, but then having them like curate the cocktails is just going to take it up another another notch. So when is that? Maybe we'll find each other at this event. Yeah. I have to link it at the Celeste Farms. Yeah, definitely. So that is January 31st and you can find that info on Celeste Farms and point five's Instagram. So talking about all the NA stuff and the sobriety stuff, tell us about Riffs and Recovery. So if someone has no idea what we, you know, what we're talking about or what that is, kind of fill them in on what is Riffs and Recovery. Yeah. So Riffs and Recovery is a meeting for anybody that's on any path of sobriety to come and kind of discuss the difficulties and the wins that come with choosing to be sober in the music space specifically. So you could be an artist yourself. You could be working in a venue. Maybe you just like to go to concerts, maybe you just like listening to music and you don't like going to concerts. It's kind of just a space where we have topic based discussions that are around that general topic. So it kind of ranges. We'll talk about things like how's your creative process changed since you got sober. We'll talk last week. We talked about. Hello. What did we talk about last week? Oh, what we're focusing on in our, in our lives. But it's for anybody on any path. So you can be sober curious. You can be fully sober. You can be maybe wanting to stop smoking cigarettes, but you still drink. So we're really open to everybody. And the inspo behind that was when I first got sober, I was in AA and I felt like the all or nothing mindset of like, if you do anything, you're going to die. I'm like, well, wait a damn minute. Like alcohol is the problem for me. And at that point, like I had just been diagnosed with PTSD and my doctors were like, hey, bestie, like to sleep, you should probably like maybe smoke a little bit of weed sometimes. So when I told my sponsor that they were like, oh, you're not sober. And I'm like, but a doctor told like, they're like, well, that's the addict within. And I'm like, okay, like, I guess it is, but it wasn't really the problem. So we wanted to create a space that was really a harm reduction approach. Like if you come in and you're like, hey, bestie, I didn't drink for five years and I drank yesterday, we're like, thanks for pulling up. Like why would we shame each other? If you're coming on one o'clock on a Monday, mid workday, you want to be here. I'm not going to be like, you're not even sober. Like that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So we just want to be a safe space for people to come. And just like, if you got something on your heart, you need to let out, let it out. If you want to celebrate something, let's rage. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. So opening a space for people and that would the motivating factor being you wanted it to be more inclusive than AA. And I think a lot of people, if they're sober curious, or if they are sober and practicing or, you know, participating in sobriety, but maybe they don't want to go to a meeting because of that. Because it's like the all or nothing like approach to it. And I think we've seen demonstrations or versions of this, like, you know, publicize documentaries and then movies and media and whatnot. It's not attractive. Because it's not, it's not a good selling point, right? If you're trying to be better, that's not your first thought is like, AA seems like the punishment or like the, if you're at the bottom of your, your dip, your wealth, and that's where you wind up. Like, it's, it's like sterile, right? It feels like something to be ashamed of. Right. And this, you know, positioning it within the music space is I think a really good way to involve people that, you know, I'm, I don't want to assume, but then when I actually, I do know I have some experience in the music space, but there is a lot of drug and alcohol use in the music space. Like, yeah, let's be clear about it. Most people know if you haven't participated in it, you should have a pretty good idea just from what you've seen. And getting clean is, it's a great achievement for lots of people because the industry kind of perpetuates that lifestyle. It's like late night, long hours, no rest, perform at your, the highest capacity on days on end, drink with it, however you can also here's a thousand dollars worth of free booze and whatever else you want to have in the, in the green room, however they do that. But you know, and I think we've seen examples of musicians or artists in their particular industry that are standout examples of, I chose to get sober and I chose to be better. I chose to get healthy, but they're not, they're like the exception. They're not the rule. And they creating a space where that none of that matters is like the first step to get people to be interested in doing it on their own. Right. That's how you kind of get the people that are, that are self-motivated and attracted to it. So it doesn't feel like they should be shamed or whether there might be people there that are judging them for any number of reasons. I think it's dope and I hope it keeps growing. Thanks. Yeah. And I think like part of what can be tricky is if you identify as an addict, which you don't have to, to come to rest and recovery, you can just not want to drink or not want to do something. But part of the addict mind is like the lying and the keeping secrets. And I think while AA does have a lot of beneficial aspects to it, I think the structure of it can be beneficial to some people, but I think the all or nothing leads to people staying in that, like, I have to lie so that I don't lose my entire community that I've built. And I just don't think that's an effective solution to get sober and stay sober. Yeah. Like, yeah. When there's no flexibility at all. Yeah, it does. It forces people into a corner just to lie to themselves and to, you know, the, uh, whatever you call it, you know, um, so this happened, this takes place at gallery five. Yes. So tell me about that. So it's every week, right? Yes. So we have coffee brewed. Thank you. Sefton coffee for donating coffee to us every week. Nice. Um, and the vibe, we put everything in a circle, all the chairs, we have our coffee. Sometimes I'll make some fresh press juice because got to say on brand, I love juice. And then we'll lead the topic. We kind of have like an intro statement so that if you've never been, you understand like kind of the intentions. And I try to take that time to kind of meditate the intention into the vibe of the room. Like I'm like, okay, like if you're coming in here, I want you to leave with a feeling of peace or at least feel like you've gotten something out of it. And then we have guidelines that are on every chair just to kind of help people understand like you can share what's on your heart, but if you're going into triggering specifics, we might have to pause you because we want to make sure everybody feels safe here. Um, and then I'll introduce the topic and then I normally share first to kind of get the conversation going and kind of open up like, so people understand how vulnerable they can be. So and then we'll chat. And then after the meeting's done, people hang out in the app and we have like a WhatsApp group chat so people can stay connected to each other, plan extracurricular activities because a lot of people will come maybe looking for bandmates or wanting to just meet other people. And then it's cool because now when you go to a show, like the odds of bumping into someone that goes to riffs are higher. So you'll be like, Oh, thank God someone else sober is here. Like we're just really trying to fight against that whole like tortured artist that has to, like it makes sense because getting on a stage and singing your heart out in front of a group of people is anxiety inducing. And what does alcohol do? Remove that anxiety. So it makes sense. But we're like, you can totally be empowered to do that without the help of any substance. Yeah, and I know, like my experience, it's right in that area of like flexibility, right? Like don't get me wrong, I have ADHD and I'm an overindulger. But I don't think I fell into the camp of like addiction, you know, I just very slowly made the decision of like, all right, I just don't think this is really benefiting me anymore. So I just stopped drinking, you know, and like we talked about a little bit earlier, but the benefits to your life are huge. And yes, it's hard, but it's like, that's kind of the point is like, the thing that's on the other side of quitting is, in most people's cases worth it, right? And for example, if somebody does experience a lot of anxiety on stage, and then they're using something like alcohol as a crutch, it's like, yeah, that's helpful. But how helpful would it be for you to overcome your anxiety? That part. And it's like, no one said it was gonna be easy. It's not, it's gonna be the opposite. It's gonna be very hard, but it's gonna be worth it. Whereas like continuing to use a substance as a crutch, that's never gonna get to the point where it was worth it, right? It's gonna do the opposite. So it's like, both are hard. Choose your hard, you know, choose which one. Yeah, and you know, of course, it takes like courage and discipline and frustration to choose the, you know, to make the right choice. But I think in most people's experience, and maybe many of the people that go to the meeting would agree that are, you know, maybe further along in their journey than others, that there are a lot of great things that have benefited their life from that choice. You know? So that's cool that you get to hopefully hear some of those stories and some of those people share every week. Yeah. So why Monday? Monday, start the week off strong. Nice. Yeah, I like that. We're just like, let's start off with some intention. It can really kind of propel forward the week and also give you something to think about and marinate on for the week ahead. And it's just, I don't know, Monday, love. Monday, middle of the day on a Monday. And I like how you said, if you're there, you want to be there. Yeah. You wouldn't be anywhere on a Monday at 1pm unless you were supposed to be, unless you wanted to be there. You know, unless you're, you know, got a court date. Yeah, like you're carving out that time and some people, it's been cool to see people base their schedules around RIFs because it's a part of their recovery journey. Yeah. And we talk a lot. Maybe it helps give them some structure too. Structure. Yeah. I was just going to mention, you know, the schedule is probably a big part of that. Oh, and it's amazing for me and Matt as well, the co-hosts, because now Mondays are like recovery day. Like I go to the gym in the morning, I get ready for RIFs like mentally, I host the meeting and then afterwards I do like personal self-care, like I try not to book things on Mondays. It's like the opposite of what a Sunday would be for somebody who is drinking. Sunday would usually be the day of day of rest, but it would also be like the hangover day. Yeah. And then Monday is like back to work. I got to dry out for a week and then Friday comes around and I'm going to have happy hour and then Saturday we're doing it and then Sunday I'm in bed all day eating Chinese food and then Monday it's like a kind of dragging ass a little bit, but this kind of flips that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. One, it's the start of the week for most people. If they have day jobs, they usually have to get up on Monday morning and go to work. But then you also put this big, for some people, it's a big part of their week or their month or this part of their life's journey smack dab in the middle of the beginning of the productive week. And I think that's a good time to do that. Thank you. So one of the common threads amongst many of these things, right? So shooting photos or capturing photos, making photos, yes, making photos. Oh yeah. Cause capture is not good either. It's such a violent language around photography. What's going on in photo light? I was shooting everybody. God damn. It's a conspiracy. So making photos at concerts and events. Gallery five is also known as a music venue. Like obviously it's an art venue as well. Many things. But music there. I know you're involved in this project called the guild and the, or the, you know, the events and all these different things. Right. So there's like music and shows that have this common thread through a lot of these things. So where does that come from? And, you know, I would assume that you love and enjoy music who doesn't, but yeah, where, where does your, like the, the magnet to music come from? I like that question. I would say music is such a universal language. Like even if you don't know what's being said, you know how it makes you feel. And I think music can be such a powerful tool to set a vibe or a mood for people. So when I'm photographing people, I like to ask them like, what makes you feel confident? And then I'll either make them a playlist or just kind of put on a general vibe. And that gets me hyped up, which by transitive property gets them hyped up. And yeah, I just think music is such a special tool. And I also like to sing, I feel like most connected to like myself when I'm singing, because also just from a nervous system regulation standpoint, like humming and singing is really good to calm your nervous system and dancing is really great for that as well. So I think music just feels like the total package. Like she's really everything. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it involves a lot of different things. Like physical motion, like vibration and singing, and yeah, even if you can't hear, you can still experience music. Like that is so special. Yeah. Yeah. That's the common thread too. I mean, for lots of people, it's the, sometimes the one thing they have in common, right? They may disagree with lots of different things that may be that they don't disagree. Maybe that they're just from different places, different backgrounds, ethnicities, languages and cultures. And music is usually the universal language and you don't have to agree on anything. But if, if it's good, it's good. And that's kind of where it ends, which I think is great. Yeah. I've always been really sensitive to music too. Like I'll hear something and I'll get chills from certain things. And I'm just, I think the common thread is also, I'm just as sensitive as bitch everything. I'm like, Oh my God, like what the fuck? But yeah, I think like for something that you hear to be able to move your body to react is so crazy and cool. Yeah. What are your thoughts on the amphitheater? The new, you know, the big amphitheater down by the river. I don't have a media trained answer for that. I think we should have done, okay. My biggest critique about the amphitheater. Did we not use any type of sun tracker to see where the sun was going to be at what time of day when we built that thing? Because why the freak, why the F word? Is it the sun lowering behind? Yeah. What the flip? That's where it should have been. So I didn't know that the sun was setting behind it. The sun is setting freaking behind it and I'm like, from a photography standpoint, chopped from a weather standpoint, chopped, uh, yeah. Like they don't have a good weather solution. And then when they were first open, they canceled like five shows off rip. I do remember that. Yeah. So I feel like the, the vision, cool vision, amphitheater enrichment, execution and budget. Imagine the potholes. Imagine the tires we could have saved when we, when we started talking about the amphitheater and these big projects in Richmond. I think I mentioned that there was arguments to that, to that case, money better spent elsewhere as far as infrastructure and community water, like pipeline, just get some, get some better duct tape down there. Like they could have put the money elsewhere. And then to execute the, the amphitheater and then to, to get it, but just so close to being amazing and just not quite get it there. Yeah. It's a flop. Yeah. So far. There I said it. I think there's space for it to improve, but I've been, and have you been, yes, I've been, and it was a mediocre experience. It doesn't, I don't hate it, but yeah, it could have been executed better. It's far too expensive. It's far too expensive to be as quiet as it was. Yeah. You know, like when you go to an amphitheater, I mean, it's in the name, right? Amp. It's booming. Amp it up. Metro booming. Yeah. It was not amped. Like it was not amped. It was not amphitheatering. It was, it wasn't theatering to its full potential. It's in the name. Yeah. Amp it up. Yeah. Amp it up. Yeah. So it was a bit quiet. The bathroom line was insane. You told me a story about that. Yeah. So the story goes, um, it's so silly and it's a good thing for people to be aware of if they go like for, and this is again, an example of something that like wasn't thought through, which is, and I don't know if the women's bathroom is like this, but the men's bathroom, it has an entrance and then it has an exit on the other side. And so what I walked up to the restroom and I walked up to the entrance, there was like this huge line, like huge, the longest men's bathroom line I've ever seen. Like longer than merch. Longer than merch. Like no joke, 15 times longer than the line for the women's restroom. And I'm like looking at it and I'm like, this doesn't compute. Like what is even happening? And uh, I'm sitting there looking at the line and me being me, I'm like, yeah, I'm not waiting in this line. So I just walk up because I'm like, there, something is wrong. Something's happening. So I walk up and I kind of look at the people in the front of the line and I just like walked right into the bathroom. So I just walk in front of them. I walk in and the whole bathroom is empty. There's like no one in there. And it's because there's an exit on the other side. So at some point, I guess the restroom was full. So then everyone started waiting in line and then all the people are leaving out the other side and not coming out the same way. So then people are just thinking that no one, that they're just waiting. So there's this huge line and no one's even in the bathroom. That would send me so far out of orbit. When he told me that it was just, come on, like this is, this is a problem that could have easily been sorted out. Now it's easy to give them the amphitheater and like the, you know, whoever drafted the design of the layout or whatever, it's easy to give them shit for it because, you know, it's new and it's, people are still figuring out, but that's a dumb problem to have. Yes. Come on. I mean, I've never seen it before. I've never seen that before. I was like, wow, that's wild. That is crazy. Yeah. Like not even going to have somebody in there like ushering. Yeah. Like, yeah. None of that. Yeah. But, uh, you know, anyway, but there's, you know, there's much better experiences to be had. Like Richmond is awesome. I'm so glad that you're a part of it. Me too. I'm glad y'all are a part of it. Yeah. Thank you. It was so great to like connect with you, get to know you a little bit. Um, so if people want to get involved, uh, with you, your life, learn more about how to work with you as a photographer, where can they find you? Well, you can find me a couple of places, um, Instagram, bevel cut, underscore shawty. Um, what's the S H a W T I. Indeed. Nailed it. Yes, indeed. Shawty, not shorty. Um, yeah. A lot of people will call me bevel as well, which I like. Okay. It's a good nickname. You know, Bev. Yeah. Why not? Good. I'm jungle. This is Buddha. Let's go. Yeah. Hell yeah. A little nickname. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. They were mega beefing before this, by the way. True. Yeah. They're not supposed to know that. Cut that out. Yeah. We'll edit it in post. They can't know that we don't, we don't even get along in the slightest. Right. Um, so how else, I know you have a website that we took a peek at. Website is Aspenderosa.com. You can email me, Aspenderosa studio at gmail.com. And those are the main ways. And if you see me dancing around at a show, you should say hello. Agreed. There you go. So we'll obviously see you at Butcher Brown. Yes. We'll see you there. And I'll maybe see you at Guild after dark tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. So talk about that for a quick moment. So what is that? So I'm organizing and hosting and photographing this event. It's called Guild after dark. It's at a new apartment complex called the Guild, which is managed by Steelhead management. And essentially we wanted to create like a concert that is also like a hangout. So it's like an unplugged acoustic, almost tiny desk inspired kind of vibe. We're going to have some light refreshments, including NA options. Bingo is donating some food for us to use. We're going to be styled by Christina at OM Essentials, which is like one of my favorite stores. It's kind of like all my favorite things in one place that I know everyone else will love as well. So Hazel Grove is the performer. He's an amazing angel. I love him. Ray at Verify Sounds is donating an hour of studio time so musicians can come and apply to that. The whole event's free. So we just wanted to create like an opportunity for creative people to meet each other, enjoy some music on a Thursday, start the weekend off strong, and vibe. Very cool. Yeah. Is this a recurring thing? Like, will it happen? Will it happen again? Will it happen more? It sure will. Awesome. We're going to be having more. So this is our first tester round. And so far it's already feeling like it's going to be really great. So I'm excited to see how it all comes to fruition tomorrow. And then we have some other very, dare I say, juicy guests planned for the future as well. Juicy guests. Love it. So we're excited to check it out. And with riffs and recovery. So Mondays from 1 to 2pm. And just show up. Just pull up. Yeah. If you're like, I don't know if I should come. Yeah. Like, don't even worry about it. I promise you as soon as you step foot through that door, I will be saying hello to you. So I really try to make sure that everybody feels greeted. If you've never been, you're coming in, you're like, I can feel that and I'm going to come up and say hello to you. So yeah, it's a good vibe. And you don't have to share. You can just come and be a fly on the wall and listen. You can leave early. You can come late. We have some people that will come literally 10 minutes before it ends. If you're coming at any point, I trust that you just want to be there. So I'm not going to be like, why are you late? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's more thanks for coming. We just want you to show up. Yeah. It's flexible. That's cool. It's low stakes. It's real chill. We laugh. Sometimes we cry. We make jokes. It's a good vibe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else that we didn't cover? Has anyone told you guys today that you're goaded? I love that. You made me do it. Cause I was going to say the same to you. Yes. I just want to say it today. We're very grateful for you. You're an awesome person. It was so great to meet you. Spend some time with you. Thank you for making photos of us and yeah, helping us kind of express ourself and share like our creativity and you know, our studio with you. And yeah, thanks so much for being a part of it and being on the show. Yes. Thank you guys. You're both really awesome. And I had a really good time with you today. Thank you. Yeah. This podcast was recorded at Vera House Studios in Richmond, Virginia, and produced by Perry Young and Mike Metzger.