Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories

Steady Hands on the Helm with Jim Carlough | Ship's Log #26

• Jeanne Andersen • Season 1 • Episode 26

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0:00 | 47:20

"The biggest lie in business is that leaders are born that way."
 - Jim Carlough

Episode Summary

What makes someone a leader? According to Jim Carlough, it isn't talent, title, or personality. It's a skill that must be developed over time. In this candid conversation, Jim reflects on the mistakes that shaped him early in his career and the lessons that eventually led him to identify six principles that have guided his leadership approach for decades.

As the discussion unfolds, Jeanne and Jim explore what integrity, empathy, and compassion look like in practice. Rather than speaking in theory, Jim shares deeply personal stories about supporting employees through difficult life situations, helping team members navigate uncertainty, and carrying responsibility when others needed stability most. The conversation highlights the often-overlooked human side of leadership and why trust remains the foundation of strong teams.

The episode wraps up with a spirited round of Two Truths and a Lie, featuring public office, a celebrity encounter, and one story that sounds just believable enough to be true. It's a fitting end to a conversation filled with wisdom, humor, and a reminder that great leaders are built one decision at a time.

Guest Bio

Jim Carlough spent more than 30 years transforming teams and developing leaders across organizations of every size. He distilled that experience into The Six Pillars of Effective Leadership - a practical roadmap built on integrity, accountability, and the belief that leadership is earned, not inherited. He is a speaker, strategist, and the author who challenges the biggest lie in business. 

Guest Links 

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Email: info@projectcandor.com

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Jeanne

Hello and welcome to Project Candor, where we explore the real stories behind who people become. Today I'm pleased to welcome Jim Carlough. Jim is a seasoned business strategy speaker and the author of the Six Pillars

Intro

Jeanne

of Effective Leadership, a roadmap to success. With more than 30 years of experience developing teams and transforming organizations, Jim teaches that leaders aren't born, they're developed. His work centers on integrity, accountability, and practical leadership principles that help people grow, not just professionally, but personally. Jim, welcome aboard on Project Candor.

Jim Carlough

I am just so happy to be here. I've been looking forward to this conversation all week. So yes, let's have some fun.

Jeanne

Yeah, this is exciting. Um, the more I understand about what you do, the more I want to dig in. So the way this works is I start asking questions and we get to know you a little bit before we jump into your fun stories. So you ready to go?

Jim Carlough

I'm ready to go.

The Cost of Leadership

Jeanne

Okay. So, Jim, before you fully understood leadership, what did it cost you?

Jim Carlough

Oh, it probably cost a few relationships. When I think back to my first management job,

Jim Carlough Joins the Conversation

Jim Carlough

I was horrible. I remember one day a young woman that worked for me came into my office and closed the door and didn't like something that I did. It wasn't directed at her, but it was for to the with the team. And she started with an escalated voice and yelling at me. And I naturally responded the same way by elevating my voice, which was the wrong thing to do. So I think what it really cost me, it didn't cost me my job, but it cost me that relationship with that person because I wasn't myself. And I didn't show up the same way I had showed up two hours earlier to work. I had changed, my personality changed in that instant. And that's the moment I realized I needed to change, that I would not be successful at leading people if I was going to be getting into screaming matches with them.

Jeanne

Yeah, wonderful. Because, you know, I was gonna ask you, was that the moment you realized something had to change, but you answered that right away? I get you, you get to a breaking point, right? Right. And you decide this has got to change. It might be that you were in a shoddy match, but it could have been something else as well. So before we go deeper and talk about the six pillars, uh, can you walk us through what they are? Can you give us an explanation of how you developed that and what they actually mean and what the pillars are?

The Six Pillars of Effective Leadership

Jim Carlough

Yeah, let me tell you how this whole start, this whole thing started, or the book started. Two years ago, I started thinking, what happens when I retire? What can I do to give back? And, you know, I don't play golf. I'm horrible at fishing, and I just don't know what I would do. And I know if I didn't have something to do, that every day there would be a list given to me of things that I had to do by my wife, and most of the things on the list, probably things I wouldn't want to do. So I said, I got to find something to do. So I started thinking, and I realized that I had been mentoring people for 25, 30 years. In fact, I've mentored one individual for 30 years. Others have been on and off. And I started to think about the characteristics that were lacking in each of the people that I helped mentor. And I started making a list of them. And the list was about 15 items long. And I thought, well, if I'm going to teach people how to lead, I need to have a shorter list. So I worked hard to narrow it down and I got it down to six, and six that I felt were truly, truly important to drive not just organizational change, but to build cohesive, long-lasting, committed teams. And they became the framework. And they are the number one pillar is integrity. And to me, that's non-negotiable. It's just non-negotiable. And then after integrity is empathy and compassion, stability and focus, and the final pillar is humor. And over the years, these have all evolved and developed. And they're all things that I found that they don't teach you in business school, but they're things that you really need to lead effectively. And what happens in America today, and actually around the world, when a management job opens up, we typically, and I say we, because I'm part of corporate America, we typically go to the that group or look inside that group for the most technically skilled person in that group and promote them the manager. The problem is we don't give them a roadmap to follow of how to be successful. Very few companies today have true leadership training programs. They just don't exist. As budgets got tighter and profits became more important, they sort of went away. In fact, in my career, I've only worked for one company that truly had a leadership development program. And I learned a lot from that. But I also learned a lot by managing people and living experiences and learning what was important. And when I look back at my career, I can compare my teams. I measure my success by how often people that work for me call me looking for another job. And I also still to this day get emails from a few people who worked for me 25 years ago to wish me a happy boss's day. And so when I think about those things, I think about how those teams performed and what were the things that kept them unified together. And it really came down to these six principles. And I also discovered along the way that my voluntary attrition rate, people who voluntarily quit, who worked for me, is under 5%.

Jeanne

Wow. That's a low percentage, yeah.

Jim Carlough

The average in the United States is 10 to 15%. And so these pillars have meaning and it humanizes the leader. It doesn't make them part of the team. They're not, they're not out drinking with them and eating with them every night. They're not, you know, friends, but it keeps the group together. And that is something that I'm that I'm probably most proud of. And most proud of the people who have who call me and say, hey, I need advice. I'm looking for a new job. Do you have one? You know, do you know anybody who's hiring? And the fact that they they reach out. And so I feel good about that. But again, I wanted to take this and do this on a bigger scale. So in retirement, I'm doing more public speaking at conferences on this topic. And I've also developed workshops for corporations, a three-day workshop where we can bring these pillars to life and instill it into the leaders that already exist in positions and they can start that transformation. I believe strongly that if an organization can adopt these principles, that I can cut their attrition rates in half. However, it won't happen overnight because telling somebody they need to show compassion or empathy, they have to learn how to do that. And learning that takes time. You can't pick up a book on compassion and think that you can implement it successfully. The way I handle it and the way you handle it may be different. And you'll have to develop your own style for it. So the workshops are a starting point, but it's a start of a journey that will over time have a dramatic impact and will severely bring down attrition rates as we develop more cohesive teams.

Jeanne

Yeah, you've given me a lot to think about. I'm thinking of personal growth, uh, corporate growth, uh, leadership styles within corporations. And just my mind is going a little crazy now. I've got other questions for you that I didn't have ready on the ready for you. But I do remember when I was at IBM, they used to have great leadership training. They would take you up to Armak and they had a very big corporate facility, and we would go through tons of leadership training. I don't know if they still do that or not, but I was privileged enough to be able to go to that. And I thought it was quite effective. It did set my career as I went forward. So I understand and I realize what you're doing is just such a needed service for corporations if they don't have that. If you were to say to a corporation, like, why they should reach out to you and say, or just a leader in a corporation, why should I go to gym and work on these pillars of success? What would you say to them?

Jim Carlough

I would

Why Poor Leadership Hurts the Bottom Line

Jim Carlough

tell them they're killing their bottom line. Let's talk about the cost of replacing an employee. So the Society for Human Resource Managers did a study, and they say that it costs between 100 and 300% of an individual's salary in order to bring the next person on board. Because the components of that are you have lost productivity because you didn't know the person was going to quit till they quit. And you can't hire somebody and train them in two weeks. So you've got some period of time where that work isn't being performed. You then have it starts with recruiting, whether internally or externally, finding candidates, screening candidates, interviewing candidates, you know, two, three-level interviews or whatever they are, because and every company is different. Then you have the onboarding process, the training process, and that new employee is likely not capable of being fully functional for eight to 12 months. And so if you take the numbers that they suggest, let's assume we have 500. I like simple math. Let's assume we have 500 employees, and let's assume that our attrition rate is only 10%. So that means that every year I'm gonna lose 50 employees. Now let's assume for a second that those 50 employees all made $100,000. And let's say we're gonna take middle of the range and say it's 200%. That's $10 million of profit that is going out the window because of an attrition rate of 10%, and the cost of doing nothing is taking profit off the table. And so I would ask the question what is your attrition rate? If your attrition rate is 10% or higher, you need me. You need to change something about the organization and create a leadership culture. And I think that's what's missing is not just the leadership culture, but giving permission to people to be a leader and then to give them the tools on what they should focus on. And again, I don't think we do that. I don't think we do a good job of that. And when we put somebody into a management role who never was before, if they can't make that transition in 18 months, you're gonna see that department's attrition rate go up and you're gonna see the burnout of that leader. So it's a very costly problem that nobody's talking about.

Jeanne

So I'm going totally off script because I have more questions based on what you said. So I remember Luke Ersner wrote a book. I can't remember what the title was. It had elephant in it, the big blue elephant or something, you know, talking about IBM. And he made a statement that shocked me that it would take a year for me to be effective at IBM just because of complexity of the organization and the understanding that I needed in order to be effective. But that made me stay there to just want to be there and be effective. I don't know. It just like a it's just something that just stuck with me, like, you know, they're giving me this year and they're paying me. I'm gonna be effective for them. So I stayed for quite some time there. And uh, do you think that CEOs are scared of that? You're talking to attrition. So it's even worse. If it takes you a year to be effective at a corporation, then if they leave after six months, that's just money gone and they haven't done anything. Even though they might have done some work, it's not, you know, in the scheme of things, it might not be um enough to cover the cost of them.

Jim Carlough

I totally agree. I had a similar situation where I was hired at a company. I was told it would take a year to learn what they do, been in healthcare my entire professional career. And this is 2008, and they had a uh routine that after 90 days, you had a formal review with your boss. And my boss lived in New York and happened to be in our Texas office that week. And she came to me and she said, if you don't mind, I'm gonna fly home tonight and I'm gonna do your review over the phone. And I said, That's fine. And so I had no that. I started to think about and was prepared and had already cleaned out my desk that I was gonna be let go because I felt I was not adding any value. And we got on our call, and the first thing she said is, How do you think it's going? Oh, gosh, I hate that question. And uh, this is a true story. And I said, Christina, and she happens to be one of the best bosses I've ever had in my life. So hopefully she's listens to your podcast. Um because I I look, I stay in communication. You didn't tag her today, till today. I mean, she's she's just a fabulous, fabulous leader. And I said, Christina, to be honest with you, I have my office packed. I'm ready for you to let me go. I accept the fact that I just don't get it. And she paused and she said, What don't you get? And I said, I just can't understand the complexity of what we're doing. She said, Stop. Stop right there. She said, Number one, I told you it would take a year. I said, Oh, you were just being nice. She said, I wasn't being nice, I was being truthful. It will take you a year to learn everything because we are that complex. And she said, I owe you an apology. I should have stayed in Dallas to have this conversation with you face to face because you're adding value in places we didn't expect you to add value initially. And she said, You've actually improved a product of ours. And you've only been here 90 days. I mean, she had examples. She said, She said, Jim, I've got to tell you something. I think I have failed you because I need to spend more time with you to reinforce how much you do know and how much you have learned. And so we made a plan to do to talk more frequently than just once a week on a one-on-one. And it really helped both of us. And I was very successful there and was there for almost a decade. And but I literally had a box packed with my personal things ready for her to say that she was going to let me go. And that was the farthest thing that was from the truth of what was going to happen. But that's the perception. I just felt like I wasn't contributing value for what they were paying me.

Jeanne

That's because you had your own expectations set pretty high for yourself, I guess. And you didn't see how you were meeting your own goals.

Jim Carlough

And I said to her, I said, I, you know, I consider myself a pretty smart guy. I'm not the smartest person in the room. And she said, but you are smart. And I said, you're being nice, but I still don't get it. And but it was it was a very interesting conversation. It changed my view of the organization. It changed the way she and I interacted with each other. It improved our relationship, our relationship was never bad, but it improved it. And one of the hardest things was when she was moved into another position. I was really upset about that because I felt like we had really come together as a group and we had done some really great things. And we were growing by over 25% year over year. And I thought that that would impact our performance. And it turned out it did with the leadership change. But I mean, it happens. It happens.

Jeanne

Yeah, that's a fantastic story. I hope she does hear that because she needs to get kudos for the way she managed and led, and you still are impressed with her all these years. So I got to go off script again because I, you know, you keep saying things that just make me think of things that I've experienced. Corporations now, they're hiring rapidly. And in some roles, they think they can shortcut these hiring processes. And so they do it by Zoom. They hire by Zoom. And I'm not going to say the name of the company, but there has been times when companies have hired people by Zoom where they were getting answers fed to them from someone else.

Jim Carlough

Whoa.

Jeanne

And then when they show up to the job, it's not even the same person. I mean, yeah, it sounds horrible, but it's true. It's happened to me.

Jim Carlough

You know, it's funny, I I'm not surprised, but it deeply concerns me when somebody would truthfully manipulate an interview by having somebody you know on the other side of the behind the camera writing answers on a big sheet of paper or whatever, so somebody could answer them. I mean, you're not the truth, it is going to come out because when you do show up eventually and you're not that same person because that person's not isn't feeding you the answers, you're going to be discovered very, very quickly, and you're not going to last very long.

Jeanne

Right. Yeah, they didn't last long, but it happened more than once. So that's the sad part about it. So that company did get smart and decide that it was only in-person interviews. So they would pay the money to fly the people in. But they were trying to, but it was expensive to do because they were hiring quite a bit of people. And I think they finally ended up sending people to bulk hiring events. But we're not really talking about hiring, but we're talking about attrition. So that just, you know, came to mind because I thought, yeah, that was a lot of wasted money. All right, let's go back to the pillars because that's really, really important. So of the six pillars, which one challenged you the most personally? And um, what did it take for you to grow into it?

Jim Carlough

I would

The Pillar That Challenged Jim Most

Jim Carlough

say compassion and empathy were both the hardest. Integrity for me was not, but empathy and compassion was they're two very, very different things. And so I like to tell stories. So I'll tell you a story about empathy.

Jeanne

Great.

Jim Carlough

A

Empathy in Action: A Gift of Time

Jim Carlough

couple of years ago, I had a woman who worked for me who was a single mom, absent dad with a 12-year-old son. And it was summertime. And I had noticed that she had not taken time off to be with her son at any point during the summer. And it was like the end of July, one month left before they went back to school. And I called her on the phone. She's a remote employee, and I said to her, I said, Jennifer, I said, You haven't taken any time off to be with your son, and he goes back to school in a month. And she said, Well, I'm I'm just too busy. And I said, Well, that's not the right answer. The right answer is I need to take some time to be with my son. I said, So here's what we're gonna do. When this call is over, you're gonna log out of your computer, you're gonna turn your phone off, and I don't want to see you, hear from you, or see an email from you until Monday morning after 8 a.m. I said, it's Wednesday, I'm gonna give you the rest of the, I guess it was late morning, get the rest of the day today, Thursday, Friday, and I don't want you putting it in as PTO. This is my gift to you because you've been working your tail off. And I appreciate what you've done, but I know that your son needs your attention. He's 12 years old, he's going through changes, entering adulthood. He needs you more than ever. She immediately said, but wait, can we negotiate this? No. I said, We're not negotiating you. She said, Well, let me explain. She said, I have a very big commitment to a customer, and I promise them the deliverable by Friday. I don't want to go back on my promise. But you are right. I need to spend time with my son. What if I take the time next week? I said, You can take the time next week, but it's not available after next week because I'm going to force you to do it. She took the time the following week. She took Wednesday, Thursday, Friday off. Didn't hear from her. Monday morning, the first thing I get is a phone call. She's a little emotional, and she couldn't get the words out about how thankful she was that I forced her to take time to be with her son. And to me, that's what a leader is supposed to do.

Jeanne

Wow, that is fantastic. That's a very touching story.

Leading Through Uncertainty and Change

Jim Carlough

And in terms of, you know, I have another example of which is a combination of sympathy and compassion. Back in 2001, when I was working at Perot Systems with Ross Perot and Ross Perot Jr. and others, I had several teams, but one team that I had was responsible for one of the claim systems that we produced, which was old green screen technology. I believe you and I are from the generation that grew up with green screen technology.

Jeanne

Yeah, I know green screens. Let's not go how far back that. And mag card readers and screen scraping. Okay, let's go forward.

Jim Carlough

So in a management meeting, we decided we were going to sunset the green screen technology. So I had to tell a department of 25 people that their jobs were going away, but they weren't going away tomorrow. And I didn't know what to tell them to get them committed to staying as long as we needed them to support the customers we had. We had 36 customers on this product. We knew or we estimated that to transition somebody to the new versions would take eight to 12 months. But I didn't know what to say. So I wrestled with it. I called my mentor, whose advice was good luck. Let me know how it worked out.

Jeanne

You got a new mentor after that, right?

Jim Carlough

And I truly struggled. So I ultimately said, What would I want my boss to say to me if my job was going away? So I came up with three things. Now remember, my only goal was nobody left before it was their time. So I have the meeting, I made three promises. Promise number one, everyone would know as early as possible the transition date for their role based upon when somebody was converting. Knowing that the minimum time for implementation is eight months, if we know that client X is starting implementation today, eight months from now, these two people who are supporting that customer likely are not going to be needed after that point. So they would have eight months to start looking for a job. So that was promise number one. Promise number two. If you wanted to stay with the company and you wanted to learn the new technologies so that you could support the customers, I will make the training available to you during the workday. Not at night, not early morning, not at lunchtime, but during the workday over the course of the next eight to 16 months or whatever. And so when it's time for you to move, you already have the knowledge and the training to go work in that department.

Jeanne

Oh, that was great. I like that.

Jim Carlough

And then I thought, I need to go one step further. And I said, if you don't want to learn the new technologies and you don't want to work here, I will personally help you find a job on the outside that fits your family's financial requirements as we do today, and something that fits your skill set.

Jeanne

Wow, that's a big promise.

Jim Carlough

It's a big promise. So here's what happened. Nobody left before it was their time. Not one single person. What I didn't expect happened 18 months later. 18 months later, I get a call from HR and they asked if they could come and see me. Now, when HR calls you and they say we want to come and see you, usually it's not a good thing. So I thought, oh no, what did I do now? And so these two women from HR came in and they sat down and they said, um, we want to talk to you about your team in California. And I went, Oh. And the one woman said, That you know, the team that you're downsizing because we're converting and all this other blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, Yes. And she said, Well, remember, if you think back six weeks ago, we did an employee satisfaction survey and we want to talk about the results. And I went, how bad are they? And she said, Well, that's the problem. We have 20, over 20,000 employees in this company, and that group of 20 plus employees are the happiest employees we have in the company.

Jeanne

Wonderful.

Jim Carlough

We need to understand what you're doing. These people's jobs are going away, they're not quitting, and they're happy. And the happiest of the whole organization. So I said, Look, I can only tell you what I did. And I said, Here's what I did. And I did made the commitment to everybody. And I told her the three promises. And they sat back in their seats and they said, How did you come up with that? I said, Trust me, I didn't sleep for a few nights, and I had to try to figure out what message do I deliver that will keep them from running out the door. And basically, what they said to me is, Jim, you took all the responsibility away from them and put it on yourself. You committed to them to get give them training. You committed to them that, you know, it would be during the workday. You committed to them that if they didn't want to stay, you'd help them find their job. So they went home that day, told their spouses, I'm going to be losing my job. I don't know when, but my boss is going to help me. And literally, I took all the weight that they should have been feeling and put it on my shoulders. But the HR people said, we need to write this out because we're going to have a situation like this again someday. And we need to make this our policy.

Jeanne

Wow, that was fantastic that you did that. That is just amazing. I don't think I've ever had anybody that said, oh, it's time to downsize, and you're part of the group that ever helped me with anything. And it was stressful.

Jim Carlough

And

Integrity When No One Is Watching

Jim Carlough

usually the cuts come fast and and sharp, but we had time, and it would do nobody any good to hide the fact that we were sunsetting something and to not tell them that it's going to not or or misrepresent that it wouldn't impact their life. I mean, that wouldn't be a correct lack of integrity because you're not being honest with them. And so that was very important for me. But it it is, I think is one thing and one reason why that group in particular, I hear from a lot of them when they're changing jobs or looking or thinking about a career change or whatever. So and I when I look back at that, I look at to me, that's what a leader should be doing.

Jeanne

Right. Right. Well, honestly, I was going to ask you some more about integrity, but you've just given two massive examples of it. And one was the lady that you wanted to have her go and be with her son before he went back to school. But then she turned around with such integrity that I don't want to I don't want to harm my customer that I've made this promise to. Wow. So she must have also gotten that from being working with you as well. I mean, she probably had a lot of integrity herself, but still she felt comfortable that she could tell you that, that she was had pride in her job and her customer. And then you come up with this other great story. That's phenomenal. I mean, they need more leaders like you, Jim.

Jim Carlough

Well, I think the stories, I think the stories are important. And some of the stories were in the book because it brings to life how to humanize this. And when you can give examples and talk to people about, well, here's how I did this or here's how I learned this. I think it's important because it's this is not easy.

Jeanne

Right. It's not. And you also give examples about Ross Perot. I know you had talked to me earlier about him, and then you have such admiration for him and his family. So I think you had you have that in the book as well.

Leadership Lessons from Ross Perot and Satya Nadella

Jim Carlough

I do. I do have some stories in the in the book as well. In each chapter, I talk about the pillar, I talk about the importance of the pillar, I give examples of a time in my life where a reference that I use that pillar. But then I also give two other things. Things that a person can do to try to implement that pillar in their own life. But I also give them references of other people who they would recognize their names, who also exemplify that pillar in their leadership style. So, for example, for integrity, I use Satya Nadella, the chairman of Microsoft. When he went into Microsoft, his first words were, we're going to operate with absolute integrity and transparency. And he instilled that in his leadership team. And if you instill that in the leadership team, it's going to flow downward. And so I thought it was important to have references so people could say, okay, I know it's this author who says that this is what I should do, but Satya Nadella, I don't know much about him. I can go read about him and read what how he manages. So there's the book is not long, but it's packed. It doesn't have a lot of theory and blah, blah, blah filler stuff. I mean, it is packed with actionable items and explanations that people can implement it, which I felt was important.

Jeanne

Right, right. Well, I know there's one other pillar that we hadn't really talked too much about, but we're going to transition to our next part of the podcast, which is called Two Truths in a Lie. So we're going to see your humor in action. And so far, this has been such a wonderful conversation, Jim. I don't want to belittle it, but I do think that humor that they're going to love what your stories. So I'm going to share my screen. Are you ready to play Two Truths in a Lie?

Two Truths & A Lie

Jim Carlough

I'm ready to play Two Truths in a Lie.

Jeanne

Okay. So Jim has provided me for those listening with three headlines just about himself. Two are true. And then one is a lie or a possible twisted truth. We'll find out which one. First of all, I'm going to read the headlines out, and then I'm going to have Jim explain each of the. Oh, actually, I forgot. I'm going to guess which one I think is a lie. But then Jim's going to then talk to us about each of those stories. And then at the end, he will reveal the lie or twisted truth. This episode is sponsored by Rebel 190, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts. Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, Life can be different. Whether you're navigating a career swift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads and wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn. Rebel 180 is a reminder. You don't need permission to change your story. Simple second print. If you're running SQL Server 2016 or newer, SimpleSocket Print 1.5 drop right in and get it to work. Keep your workflow simple. Keep your label printing fast with SimpleSocket Print. Thank you to our sponsors. Here we go. So Jim, you were elected to public office at the age of 22. And that's amazing in itself. That was your first headline. Number two is in college, Jim spent the weekend in jail once for urinating in public. All right. I'm sure in college your parents weren't around, so that might not have been a pleasant trip home for the holidays.

Jim Carlough

Or to try to explain.

Jeanne

And then uh the third one is Jim shared a banana with Rihanna. I'm amazed by that. So let's go through and see. I think the one that's the lie is the college one, number two. So you tell us each of those stories, please.

Jim Carlough

So I was elected to public office at the age of 22. Uh, I ran for city council in the town I grew up in and won. And uh shortly after the election is when I was introduced to the integrity pillar. The city manager called me and asked me if I'd come and sit down with him and have a chat. So I went in and sat down, and he was an older gentleman, elder statesman of the community as well. And we were talking, and he got to a point, he said, Jim, I want to ask you to do me one favor. And I said, Okay. He said, Every night before you go to sleep and you put your head on the pillow, I want you to ask yourself this one question. Did I do anything today for my own personal self-benefit that was at the expense of another individual or group of individuals or organization? And then he went on and said, if you answer yes, before you can go to sleep, you have to figure out how to unwind it. And number two, figure out how to never repeat it again. And I have led my life by asking myself that question every single night. And I've never answered that question with a yes.

Jeanne

Wow.

Jim Carlough

Very powerful.

Jeanne

Yes, it is.

Jim Carlough

Okay, that was number one. Number two, so in college, colleges had bars because the drinking age was 18. The problem was the school that I went to where they had the bar was not convenient to the restrooms. You literally had to go to the other side of what they now call the student union, which was a good 50 to 100 yards away, and then get there and wait in line because there weren't enough stalls or urinals or whatever. And so this one night, the group of us went and the line was super long, and we were men, and we decided that the bushes outside would work just as well. But what we didn't know was there was a police officer out there just wandering around, and we never saw him. May have been the fact that we'd had a few drinks, and um he asked us if we'd like to go for a little ride. And that's what happened. We went for a little ride. Oh, and there was the rest is history written in some law book somewhere, or you can research, but we were released after the end of the weekend, and we were never charged with anything other than that. And so hopefully nobody will remember that except the guys that were with me.

Jeanne

Okay. I don't have any questions about that one. You explained that one well. All right, how about number three?

Jim Carlough

So, Rihanna, so I used to fly to LA a lot, and I was flying from LA to Dallas one time. It was early spring, March, April time frame. And because of the amount of miles I fly, I was at the time was always getting upgraded to first class. So I get on this airplane and I see this woman walk in, and everybody's saying hello to her. And we were on the two-seat side of the airplane. That at that time the plane was an MD-80, so there were two seats on the left side if you're sitting down, and three seats on the right side. And so I was already sitting down when she came in. She came in, she was so polite. And I got up and I let her sit down. I didn't know who she was. But this big man came in behind her, and he sat across from me on the opposite side of the aisle. And she fell asleep, and he and I just started talking, and he said, Do you know who you're sitting next to? And I said, I have no clue. He said, He said, That's Rihanna. And I literally had no clue.

Jeanne

And so You're like, that's nice.

Jim Carlough

That's nice. What did she do? You know, but I recognize the name, but I didn't know her music. So I certainly couldn't have a conversation with her. So it's a good thing she was sleeping. But when they started to serve breakfast, and this was back in a time when they still served breakfast on airplanes, or at least in first class, we ordered breakfast. And American at the time, American Airlines at the time, you had a choice of either cereal or an omelet. So I got the omelet, Rihanna ordered the omelet. But when you order the cereal, the cereal comes with a little thing of yogurt and also comes with a banana. And so after I finished my omelet, I called the flight attendant over and I said, Do you happen to have a banana? And you know, an extra banana up front that nobody's eating. I would welcome it. She said, I think I do have one. So she went back, got a banana, came back, gave it to me, and Rihanna then turned to the flight attendant and said, Do you have a second one? And the flight attendant said, I don't, unfortunately. That's the last one. So I turned to Rihanna and I said, I'd be more than happy to share my banana with you. And she was so cute. This guy that's with her on the other side of the aisle is hysterical. And she said, Okay, well, go ahead and cut it. I said, No, I'll let you cut it. So I handed her the knife and I handed her the banana, and she tried to measure the exact middle of the banana by using her fingers and then cut the banana. And one piece was bigger than the other. She said, Well, you're gonna have the bigger piece. And I said, Nope. I said, You did a great job. You're the guest, you take the bigger piece, I'll take the smaller piece, because this story is gonna live on an infinite. And because she wasn't getting the analogy, but her friend was over here, and he just he was rolling on the floor. So that's the story behind that.

Jeanne

That's pretty funny. But why was she the guest? She was just on a plane.

Jim Carlough

Well, she's just on a plane, yeah, she was just on a plane. But I was just trying to be nice.

Jeanne

You were the guest. Yeah, I get it. I get it. She was the celebrity, I guess. All right. So, Jim, which one's the lie?

Jim Carlough

I never got arrested and never peed in public.

Jeanne

Oh, I did it. I guess the right one. I just didn't think that sounded like you. Although I can picture that whole scenario because yeah, drinking age was 18. I think I'm glad it's not anymore.

Jim Carlough

I am, you know, I that is the one thing that I know people who are 18. Well, it's so common now, it's but at the time, people were like, well, wait a second, I can vote at 18, I can get drafted at 18, but I can't drink. But the reality was we weren't mature enough to drink. I mean, the number of accidents the people in that 18 to 21 category had that were alcohol related was extremely high. So it made sense to raise the age.

Jeanne

Yeah, for me, it was more like drinking at that age messed up my freshman year of college. Because I was having too much fun. But anyway.

Jim Carlough

I think that happens to most college students.

Jeanne

Yeah. Well, this has been so fantastic, Jim. I love you as a guest. You're just so much fun, and you have so much to offer. I know people will want to get in touch with you, so I'm gonna share my screen. Again. And here's the contact information that I have for Jim. It'll be in the transcript, the show notes, and uh you'll be able to reach out to him. But you gave me a great quote at the beginning. So you want to talk about that? The biggest lie?

Jim Carlough

Yeah,

The Biggest Lie About Leadership

Jim Carlough

the biggest lie in business today is that leaders are born that way. And that is the furthest from the truth. Leadership is a developed skill that's developed with intention, and it's a never-ending evolution. If people were born that way, that would mean that there would be a genetic disposition that I had that came from an ancestor. My dad was a carpenter, his dad was a mason, and my great-grandfather was a chicken farmer. There's no business or C-suite experience in any of those roles. So to me, I turned out to be a leader because I chose to be a leader, and then I learned to be a leader, and I continue to practice becoming a better leader every day.

Jeanne

Great. Well, your grandfather, great grandfather, he was a leader. The chickens, the chickens were his troop there.

Jim Carlough

I think they were more family chickens. And back in those days, I think everybody shared their whatever they raised with each other. Those are different times. I mean, we're talking well over 130 years ago.

Jeanne

So wow. Well, I hope that people can reach out to you, have a call to action here just to go to your website. And if you need to want to hire Jim, you can just uh send him some information via the website, LinkedIn, or email. Anything else you wanted to add before we wrap up?

Jim Carlough

Well,

What's Next for Jim Carlough

Jim Carlough

one other thing. I'm about to be launching a corporate workshop, and I am going to be launching a cohort, a series of eight to 12 weeks of one hour a week cohort on instilling this in individuals. So it'll be, you know, groups of people. I don't know how big the class will be, but follow me on LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram because I'll start promoting a webinar that will kick all of this off, and the webinar is free. So follow me and you'll get to learn.

Words of Wisdom

Jeanne

Wonderful. So for those listening, if this episode has resonated with you, I sincerely think you should reach out to Jim and find out more about his leadership approach. And also please stay tuned for another guest next week. And until then, I'm your Admiral of the Unexpected. I wish you all smooth sailing. Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real. If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew. Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck. I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected. See you on the next voyage.