No Ramps. Just Stairs. No Way In. | With Ken Kunken | Ship's Log 36

Guest Quote

“Some men see things as they are, and say why. I dream of things that never were, and say why not.”

(Originally attributed to George Bernard Shaw; frequently cited by Senator Robert Kennedy. Ken received this quote inscribed on a glass paperweight from Senator Edward Kennedy following his Senate testimony.)

Episode Summary

In 1970, Ken Kunken was a junior at Cornell University, studying engineering and playing lightweight football. A single tackle during a kickoff play broke his neck, leaving him paralyzed from the shoulders down. He spent the next nine months and twenty days in hospitals and rehabilitation centers. The Rusk Institute’s career guidance for someone with his level of injury: sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. Ken couldn’t even dial a rotary phone. That pamphlet became the fuel.

What happened next is one of the most quietly staggering stories you’ll hear. Ken returned to Cornell—a campus with no ramps, no curb cuts, no accessibility—being pulled up and bounced down nearly 100 steps on his first day back. He earned his engineering degree, then two master’s degrees from Cornell and Columbia, then a Juris Doctor from Hofstra Law. He mailed over 200 resumes and was rejected by everyone. He was the first quadriplegic to graduate from Cornell, the first to earn a graduate degree there, and the first to serve as an assistant district attorney on Long Island. He practiced law for more than 40 years. The DA’s office later named its annual award for outstanding prosecutors after him.

Then there’s the personal side. In his fifties, more than 30 years after his injury, Ken married Anna—the woman who had originally been hired as his personal care attendant. She proposed. And it was her idea to try for children through in vitro fertilization. On January 24th, 2005, Ken watched from his wheelchair as triplets—Joey, Jimmy, and Timmy—entered the world. The Two Truths and a Lie segment lands with a twist: the story everyone assumed was the lie turned out to be the most complicated truth of all. In 2023, Ken published his memoir, “I Dream of Things That Never Were: The Ken Kunken Story.”

Guest Bio

Kenneth James Kunken is a Cornell-educated engineer turned attorney who practiced law in Nassau County, New York for over 40 years—as a quadriplegic, after breaking his neck in a college football game in 1970. He was the first quadriplegic to graduate from Cornell and the first to serve as an assistant district attorney on Long Island. In 2023, he published his memoir, I Dream of Things That Never Were: The Ken Kunken Story.

Guest Links

•       Website: https://kenkunken.com/
•       Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566473121422
•       Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ken.kunken/
•       LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-j-kunken-b4b0a9a8/
•       YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdUUa2hyQF8ubUmEARY9WKA
•       Memoir on Amazon: https://a.co/d/1t1UWIN

Who do you know who'd make a great guest for the show? Please let us know.
Email: info@projectcandor.com

Website:   https://www.projectcandor.com

Social Media

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/ProjectCandor/
LinkedIn:     https://www.linkedin.com/company/projectcandor/
Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/project.candor/
YouTube:    https://www.youtube.com/@ProjectCandorPodcast

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Cold Open

Ken Kunken 0:00

I was so proud to go to court my first day, and I couldn't fit through the switching doorways of the court. They were too narrow to allow me to get through with my electric reaction. That's how I started

Intro

Jeanne 0:30

Welcome to Project Candor, the show where ordinary people share unexpected stories. I'm your host, Jeanne Andersen, and today's guest has lived a life that proves the only limit to what's possible is what you decide to believe about yourself. In 1970, Ken Kunken was a junior at Cornell University studying engineering and playing football. A young man with the world in front of him, then a single tackle left him paralyzed from the shoulders down. What happened next became one of the most remarkable stories of resilience, determination, and reinvention you'll ever hear. Ken went on to earn multiple degrees, practiced law for more than 40 years, and in 2023, he published his memoir,

Kenneth James Kunken joins the conversation

Jeanne 1:15

I dream of things that never were, the Ken Kunkin story. Hey, Ken, welcome to Project Candor. So glad you joined us.

Ken Kunken 1:23

Thank you. Thank you for having me as your guest.

Jeanne 1:26

Yeah, I'm excited. I've been thinking about you all night long, trying to make sure I can do justice to your story because you're amazing.

Ken Kunken 1:36

Thank you.

Jeanne 1:37

So we're gonna go into some questions that I prepared in advance, and then later on, we're gonna transition to get to know you even more by um playing Two Truths and a Lie. Um, we ready to get the questions?

Ken Kunken 1:52

Ready.

Jeanne 1:53

All right. I I know everybody likes to talk about what happened to you in college, and I just wanted to go back to you as a kid. So let's go back to grade school, Ken. Who were your heroes? What do you what did you love to do? And were you the competitive kid on the field and in the classroom or both?

Ken Kunken 2:15

Well, my heroes all revolved around sports. I love sports. I basically played some type of sport all day long. And excuse me, couldn't get enough of it. Whether it be baseball or football, uh, I was always active and I loved it. But when you talk about heroes, I always looked at my grandparents as my heroes. They were absolutely incredible. I thought they could do no wrong no matter what they did. Uh, they just showered me with love, and I couldn't wait to spend more time with them.

Jeanne 2:54

That's something you don't hear very often from kids, is that they just want to spend more time with their grandparents, or their parents for that matter. It's more or less like I want to get away from home. So that that's very lovely, Ken. Um, thanks for sharing that. What did your grandfather and grandmother do for a living?

Ken Kunken 3:16

Well, um, my grandfather had a business where um he eventually sold the drug uh drug to help treat epilepsy uh in a foreign country. And so he was in the exporting business. Excuse me, can you just give me a drink, please? Excuse me one minute.

Jeanne 3:37

Um not a problem.

Ken Kunken 3:43

My other grandfather was in the insurance business and he started a life insurance business that my father and two uncles also participated in.

Jeanne 3:56

Oh, that's great. So you got your drive and determination from them, would you say?

Ken Kunken 4:01

Absolutely, without a doubt.

Jeanne 4:04

Did they play sports as well?

Ken Kunken 4:06

No, no, neither one of them was active in sports, though my father was, and my older brother certainly was.

Jeanne 4:14

What did they play?

Ken Kunken 4:16

Well, my father played football,

The kid who loved sports

Ken Kunken 4:18

and my brother played uh football and baseball. In fact, my father ran track as well. So he was very active, and he taught me at an early age how to throw, catch, and hit a baseball, uh, and coached me in football as well.

Jeanne 4:37

That's wonderful. So, fast forward a few years to high school. Uh, were you working any part-time jobs or was life pretty comfortable? Were you popular with your friends and with the girls? And did you always have a plan to go to college to play football?

Ken Kunken 4:54

Uh absolutely not. I had a lot of good friends, but I really tried to concentrate more on my studies. Uh, I worked hard in school. Fortunately, I did well, in fact, well enough to be admitted to Cornell University, where I was studying engineering. Um, but I found that sports was a great way just to relieve some of the stress in my life. I loved playing ball, so uh I wasn't sure though what I would do in college if I had the opportunity to play, because in high school I was also on the wrestling team, and I enjoyed that sport as well. Um but when I got to Cornell, I just felt like there was too much work, schoolwork, to actually play a sport. So my freshman year, I didn't participate at all in any type of athletics. Um, but I just really, really missed it. So at the beginning of my sophomore year, I went out for the football team because Cornell actually had a lightweight football team, which was rare. There were only, I think, six or seven colleges that had a lightweight football team uh where you had to weigh less than 154 pounds two days before the game. And that was rare. So it gave me the opportunity to play against people more my own size, and I loved participating in that.

Jeanne 6:16

Yeah, I've never heard that about a lightweight football team. They don't have that today, do they?

Ken Kunken 6:22

Well, now it's called sprint football, and they still have it, but again, they're only a handful of teams. I think there may be six teams that play it. When I played, I think they're either six or seven teams, but some teams folded, unfortunately, other teams started up. But that was one of the nice things about having that sport at Cornell, because I was always uh smaller than most of the people on uh the football team when I played in high school. Um, so it gave me the opportunity to play up against people who were more my size.

Jeanne 6:56

Hmm, interesting. So, what was your position again?

Ken Kunken 6:59

Were you quarterback or in ninth grade I was actually the quarterback of the team? But in high school and college, I just played defense. And uh I played either defensive end or defensive linebacker.

Jeanne 7:15

Poor small guy. Defensive linebacker sounds like a different position that you you should avoid.

Ken Kunken 7:23

Well, when I was in high school, I was probably the smallest defensive end in the league. I weighed at the time 150. The defensive tackle next to me weighed 225. I had to worry not just about the opposing players. If my own player felled on me, fell fell down on me, I'd be in trouble.

Jeanne 7:43

Oh, wow. And then when you got to college, and then you're trying to you have to maintain a weight to be order to play this um this other league or the smaller league. What did you call that again?

Ken Kunken 7:56

It was then it was called the 150-pound league.

Jeanne 7:59

Uh now it's almost like sweating out pounds for weight for wrestling.

Ken Kunken 8:03

I was used to that for wrestling to lose weight. But actually, for this uh league, I was one of the smallest players in the league. I was naturally under the weight. All I had to do when we did a weigh-in was

Cornell Engineering and the 150-Pound League

Ken Kunken 8:16

take off one shoe and I made a weight. Whereas many people had to pull about 20 pounds to make weight.

Jeanne 8:24

Wow. That's a very interesting concept. I'll have to look that up. I've never heard of that before. So you went and applied for Cornell, or did you get a scholarship to go there?

Ken Kunken 8:35

No, they weren't given out uh scholarships at the time. So I applied uh to the College of Engineering. I was always very good at math growing up. That was my favorite subject. And my high school guidance counselor said, if you're good in math, you should be an engineer. Well, I didn't know much about engineering, and that really was not the right field for me. But I had a friend uh who was going to Cornell Engineering at the time, and he suggested if you're not sure, you're better off starting an engineering, see if you like it, take whatever required courses there are, and if you find it's not for you, transfer out, then start in the College of Arts and Sciences. Think you may want to go into engineering, uh, and then if you transfer, still not being sure whether you like it or not. And you'd have to make up some of the required courses. So his advice made a lot of sense. Um, so I decided to start in the College of Engineering.

Jeanne 9:35

Oh, nice. Yeah, that who was this was a friend that was already in college, or it was actually one of my brother's best friends, uh, who was in the College of Engineering at Cornell.

Ken Kunken 9:46

Um, but you know, my it seemed like my entire family had been going to the University of Vermont. Um, my father, mother, and brother all went to the University of Vermont. So I think I kind of surprised a lot of people when I decided to go to Cornell.

Jeanne 10:02

Right. That's a really prestigious uh university. So I can imagine what did the moment feel like when you were accepted? And then how did you feel about life going forward when you're standing there ready to report?

Ken Kunken 10:18

You know, it was interesting because before I received my acceptance in the mail, I had actually gone down with my father to uh look at the University of Maryland, uh, because that was one of the schools I had applied to and was accepted to. And on the way down, my father asked me of all the schools that I applied to, which would I like to go to. And all the schools that I applied to were for the College of Arts and Sciences, liberal arts. The only school I applied to for engineering was Cornell. So I told my father I wasn't sure. I just knew it would not be Cornell because I didn't think I wanted to be an engineer. And he said, that's fine, he understands. But as soon as I got back from looking at Maryland, the acceptance was waiting in the mail, and my father immediately said, You're going. But, you know, I went up, looked at the school, it looked great, and I was excited to go there. I knew my brother Steve actually really wanted to go there. Uh, that really piqued my interest, and he unfortunately wasn't accepted. So he ended up going to the University of Vermont, but he encouraged me as well to go to Cornell.

Jeanne 11:29

Well, you can't do wrong in some schools, but Vermont I've never heard of, but I'm sure it's good. And Maryland I've heard of. And uh, we were rivals. I was from North Carolina, I don't really like their basketball team. But anyway, that's uh another subject. So um now we get to you're at Cornell,

The tackle that changed everything

Jeanne 11:52

and then came the tackle that changed everything. How long were you actually down in hospitals, rehab, all of that? And did you lose time at Cornell and have to, you know, skip a year? Uh and then in the middle of all that, when the world had completely shifted, what gave you your footing back?

Ken Kunken 12:11

Well, what happened is I was in on the kickoff play and I ran down the field. When I tackled the ball carrier, I broke my neck and severely damaged my spinal cord. And as a result, I'm a quadriplegic. I'm almost totally paralyzed below the shoulders. So I spent the next nine months and 20 days in various hospitals and rehabilitation centers. And fortunately, I had a vocational counselor at the Rusk Institute where I was doing rehab. And she encouraged me, as well as my family, of course, to try and go back to school and continue my education. So I lost a year of study by spending almost 10 months in the hospital. Uh, but then I returned to Cornell that next year.

No ramps. Just stairs.

Jeanne 13:00

Okay. And you how did your world shift? I mean, you you did you really want to go back there? I mean, you had encouragement to go back there, but did you know what were you doing sitting there in in the medical centers trying to rehabilitate yourself? What were your feelings then?

Ken Kunken 13:20

Well, I wasn't really sure how I was going to do it. Um, I had a number of roommates while I was at the Rusk Institute. They all had spinal cord injuries, but they all had more movement than I had. They were all injured far longer than I was, and none of them seemed to be doing much with their lives. They were all basically just sitting home. So it was really discouraging. And fortunately, my family uh kept encouraging me uh to go back to school and try and make the most of my intellectual ability. So then the question is, where do you go? And Cornell was one of the least accessible places somebody in a wheelchair could go to. This was about 20 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act took effect. Now that act uh mandated that more facilities needed to be made wheelchair accessible. At the time of my injury, Cornell, which is located in upstate New York, is on a very hilly terrain. Almost every one of its buildings has steps in front of them, and there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. So think about this. On my first day back at school, I had to be either pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps just to attend my first day.

Jeanne 14:45

And who did that for you?

Ken Kunken 14:47

Well, I hired a personal care attendant, and between my attendant and fellow classmates, that's how I was able to maneuver and get up and down the steps. You know, while at the rehab facility, I learned how to use an electric wheelchair, but I couldn't use that at Cordell because of all the steps. Uh, since nothing was accessible, I had to be in a manual wheelchair, which I could not wheel. So either my attendant or people at school helped pull me up and down the steps.

Jeanne 15:21

Did you have a lot of close friends there? Um you would this happen in your sophomore year?

Ken Kunken 15:26

Uh, this was the beginning of my junior year. And I had a lot of close friends. I was in a fraternity, the Sigma New fraternity, so I had my fraternity brothers. I had played on the lightweight football team, so I had my football teammates, as well as just other colleagues I had met at school. So I had a good amount of friends there, which was one of the reasons why I wanted to go back there.

Jeanne 15:49

Oh, that's nice. Do you keep in touch with any of those people now?

Ken Kunken 15:53

No, none. I did for a while, but uh now I have one or two that were fraternity brothers that I keep in touch with, but it's only about one or two that I do.

Jeanne 16:05

Yeah, it's hard. I I get it. I just was curious because uh, you know, that that's quite intensive, you know, what you went through, and then having friends that you could wanted to go back to. I didn't know uh if you still kept in touch with them. I barely keep in touch with people from high school or college. Um, you know, it's it everybody has a life and you go forward. Uh so I know you're back at Cornell now, and then you are going up and downstairs, being uh pulled up and bounced down, and you're in classes. How are you taking notes, or is somebody doing that for you?

Ken Kunken 16:44

Well, I had to try and figure all of that out. And what I eventually decided was I gave a you know a pad of paper and carbon paper to classmates in different classes, and that way I was able to get a carbon copy of their notes. Uh, since I'm not able to write. So it was difficult. I hope that whoever was taking notes took decent notes, didn't get too smudged, you know, with the carbon paper. Um, but at the time I was still trying to get used to my new physical condition. So it was really tough for me to concentrate at all. I went back to Cornell just, I believe it was 11 days after I was discharged from the hospital. And there was a lot of adjusting I still needed to do.

Jeanne 17:32

Well, that's very smart to have somebody use carbon paper. Um, amazing what you could do at that point. You didn't there was no um tape recorders, I'm guessing, that like small ones you could carry with you.

Ken Kunken 17:47

You know, they didn't have really small ones, they had bigger ones. But the problem was, you know, most of the engineering lectures were 50 minutes long, and they were extremely boring. But in addition, you know, a lot of it was writing on uh either a blackboard or an opaque projector, an overhead projector. So a tape recorder one would have been difficult to record all of that since a lot of it was visual. But secondly, it was tough enough sitting through a lecture once to listen to a whole 50-minute lecture again would have been really difficult. And then to do that for five or six courses, there just wasn't enough time.

Jeanne 18:26

Yeah, I never understood people bringing tape recorders to class because I was like, I don't want to hear this again either. And I didn't have any problems making my own notes, so yeah, that would have been grueling for you. Um, how about your like physical condition as far as sleep and and so forth? Um, was that a factor in being able to keep awake in classes and take uh did you take a full mood?

Ken Kunken 18:50

It sure was. It was really difficult because I had a lot of trouble sleeping. Uh I would get really uncomfortable because I'm not able to roll over in bed. You know, I most people roll over, they don't realize it during their sleep. I'd be in one position and get really stiff and uncomfortable, and I'd have to wake up my personal care attendant and have him or her turn me to my side or back to my back. So I never slept straight through the night. I was always up a lot, and as a result, I always felt sleep deprived. So it was really difficult keeping awake.

Jeanne 19:26

So you're painting a picture of how hard it is um for you at this point in in coming back to school, but then you just went

The Rusk Institute pamphlet

Jeanne 19:36

on um to get multiple degrees, and then you went to law school, and then there were you went on to have 40 years as a prosecutor. What was the internal conversation that kept pushing you forward? And was there ever a moment you said, I just want to give up?

Ken Kunken 19:55

There were a lot of those moments. They just seemed reluctant to answer many of my questions. And one day I got a hold of a pamphlet published by the Rusk Institute, and they seemed to have uh the answers to all aspects of questions about spinal cord injuries. It talked about what type of movement you would have. Of course, I have very little. It depends on the level you're injured, whether it be in your neck or back. I'm hurt between the fourth and fifth cervical. They would talk about what type of sensation you would have. And I have very little sensation below my shoulders. You know, most of my body I can't feel. And it talked about how it affects your bodily functions, your bladder, your bowels, your breathing. There was also a section about what type of careers you could go into. And the only career I saw for somebody injured at the fourth and fifth cervical in the neck would be to someday sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. And I was devastated when I saw that. I mean, here I had been studying engineering at one of the most prestigious schools in the country, and now they're talking about selling magazine subscriptions over the telephone. And while there's nothing wrong for people who do that, I couldn't even dial a telephone. This was before they had touch tone phones, and I couldn't dial a rotary phone or take notes. And I remember lying in bed thinking, I may not even be able to do that. And I just made up my mind through a lot of encouragement from my family that there would still be something I can do. And through their help, I pushed myself to try and achieve as much as I possibly could.

Jeanne 21:49

Wow, it's so touching that your family was there and the one and only people that kept you motivated because you would think professionals like the Rusk Institute. Would have better answers for people. They're supposed to, you know, it energize you, pump you up, help you get over your uh anxiety about what's happened. And they're going to give you a list that says, oh, here you go, here's your career magazine salesperson. What happens now? We don't have many magazines.

Ken Kunken 22:21

Well, I have to give a lot of credit to my vocational counselor there. Her name was Joyce Mesh, and she encouraged me to go back to school. Uh, and she helped a lot in getting me back to Cornell. But most of the other professionals at the Rusk Institute were not very encouraging. I mean, they they still encouraged you to do something and hopefully go back to school, but they weren't very encouraging or had very low expectations, let's say, of what you could do.

Jeanne 22:55

Okay. Well then you must have had to outfit your home to accommodate you. Plus, you like you said, you had a personal assistant in college, but you must have a lot of equipment now that helps you move around that's automated or that has some kind of mechanism to it.

Ken Kunken 23:13

Um I think most people think that. I don't actually. Um, you know, I really don't. I mean, I use an electric wheelchair. Um, I have a bed where, you know, the head of the bed could be raised. But other than that, I really don't have any specialized equipment.

Jeanne 23:33

Okay. Well, I have someone in my family that's got um the use of his arms. I don't know exactly um what the term is for what he has, but um from there he cannot move. So he's got like a like a hoist or something to help him get up and on and out of the bed. So you don't have any of those kinds of things.

Ken Kunken 23:56

No, I've been real fortunate that I married a wonderful, wonderful, incredible woman. Her name is Anna. She's sitting to my right just off camera. And Anna is just over six feet tall and very strong. And Anna actually lifts me from the bed to the wheelchair and from the wheelchair to the bed. And we use what's called the sliding board to help slide me part of the way, but it's basically Anna that lifts me. I don't have a lift.

Jeanne 24:26

Oh, that's that's incredible. And Anna, you I I know you're behind scenes because I've talked to you and arranging this, so you're a wonderful woman.

Ken Kunken 24:38

She sure is in so

Anna, the proposal, and the triplets

Ken Kunken 24:40

many ways.

Jeanne 24:41

So now let's talk about the personal side because you brought it up. You got married and you became the father of triplet boys. Um, that is amazing in itself. Um so want to talk about those little guys? I know they're adults now.

Ken Kunken 25:03

You know, uh, it's my favorite topic. When I was injured, I never thought that I even get a serious girlfriend, let alone eventually get married and have a family. I just basically ruled that out of my life, thinking it's just never gonna happen. And my Aunt Betty encouraged me not to feel that way. She felt there was still a lot I could offer to, you know, the right person, and someday I would meet that right person. And fortunately I did. Um, I met this wonderful woman named Anna, who uh originally uh was hired by me to be my personal care attendant because she was strong enough to lift me in and out of the wheelchair and help me with all my needs. And it wasn't long before our relationship became one of being very good friends and then a romantic relationship. And in 2003, Anna and I got married. Now, I was injured in 1970, so this was more than 30 years after my injury, and now I was in my 50s, and when we got married, in fact, I might add it was actually Anna who proposed to me. I was too nervous or afraid to even propose to her, and I wasn't sure that was the right thing to do. She actually proposed to me. And not only did she propose, but she told me that she really wanted to have my baby, and not just a baby, my baby. Now think about this. I'd been paralyzed for more than 30 years, and I was already in my 50s. But we researched various options, including in vitro fertilization, and we're very excited to learn it still might be possible for someone in my condition. So we pursued it, and on January 24th, 2005, picture what this was like. I was present in the delivery room. I was present in the delivery room when my wife Anna gave birth to triplets. We have three beautiful, beautiful, wonderful boys, Joey, Jimmy, and Timmy. They just completed their junior year in three separate colleges in upstate New York. They're all doing incredibly well, and I couldn't be happier or more proud.

Jeanne 27:35

That is a beautiful story. And you were able to participate in their childhood all the way up to who they are today. Um, and you could hold them and everything. I mean, they made provisions for you to be able to hold them in your arms.

Ken Kunken 27:55

As best I could, I I'd uh maneuver my electric wheelchair around uh town with my boys when they were small, all three sitting on my lap at once. Uh and as best I could, I wanted to have one or two at least wherever I went, and it was just great. The greatest thing in the world.

Jeanne 28:16

I'm sure you have beautiful pictures of that.

Ken Kunken 28:20

In fact, if somebody goes on my website, which is kencumkin.com, they'll see a lot of wonderful pictures of my children.

Jeanne 28:28

I have seen some of them on that site. Uh one of them was wearing a Cornell shirt.

Ken Kunken 28:36

One of them, I one of them is going into a senior year at Cornell now.

Jeanne 28:40

Oh, I couldn't read the other shirt that was behind you, SUNY or something I was trying to see.

Ken Kunken 28:49

One is at the State University of New York at Morrisville. He's studying renewable energy. That's my son James. And the third is at Syracuse University studying communications. His name is Timmy, and he wants to be a journalist. And Joey, the son of Cornell, is studying mechanical engineering.

Jeanne 29:10

So how uh triplets usually like stay together a lot. That must it wonder if it's hard for them to be in three different places because those are not really that close in proximity.

Ken Kunken 29:22

You know, that's the first time they were ever separated in their lives. I mean, they grew up doing everything together, they slept in the same room, and it was their decision to go to three separate colleges. Not because they wanted to be separated from their brothers, they just had different interests. So they've stayed really close, they visit each other at school, they've gone to class with each other, um, they do a lot when they're home on vacations with each other. Uh and uh the schools are actually uh all in upstate New York, so it is doable for them to visit each other without too much difficulty. And I love the fact that they've stayed really close.

Jeanne 30:06

That's great. So this is a full life, by any measure, just talking about your boys, and we haven't even gotten to your career yet. So, what would you want your boys to understand about the life their dad built?

Ken Kunken 30:21

Well, they actually all read the book that I wrote, so they know very well about what my life was like before they came into this world. But basically, that never say you can't do something. Never say something's impossible. Because, you know, if you work hard enough, often you can make the impossible possible. So don't listen to the naysayers, don't listen to people who tell you something's just too difficult or that you can't do it. You have to believe in yourself and do everything you can to make it work. And the most important thing that I want them to know and remember is to help others along the way every time they can. I received so much help from my family and friends. I can never pay all of that back. Uh, and I want my boys not only to recognize that, but to help others as well. And they do. They're wonderful, wonderful children.

Jeanne 31:20

That's fantastic. Anna, kudos to you too, back there. So uh tell us a little bit about your career. I mean, you um uh worked in law and

Law school and the courtroom that wouldn’t let him in

Jeanne 31:34

you were a district attorney 40 years. Um that was also probably a challenge to get to the courtroom and to get through all your um briefs and prepare for any kind of cases that you were handling. Um tell us a little bit about that.

Ken Kunken 31:53

Okay, well, first I took a number of detours before I went into law. You know, once I was injured, industrial engineering really didn't seem like a viable field for me. This was well before they had laptop computers. So while I graduated with a degree in engineering, um, based on the recommendation of a psychology professor at Cornell, I changed my career goal and decided to pursue a career where I'd be counseling others. So I stayed at Cornell, earned a master's degree there where I majored in education, and the degree was in counseling and student personnel administration. And then they increased my counseling credentials. I went to Columbia University, earned my second master's degree. This was in psychological counseling and rehabilitation. So I decided to look for a job as a rehabilitation counselor, and I mailed out, not emailed, mailed out, because this was before they had email, more than 200 resumes. Look for a job for a year, and no one would hire me. Think about this. I had now had two degrees from Cornell, one from Columbia, three prestigious Ivy League degrees, two master's degrees, and everyone seemed to feel I was just too disabled to work. I was even turned down when I was to volunteer my services. Excuse me, until I was finally hired by one organization on Long Island called the Viscarty Center. And they hired me to work as a vocational rehabilitation counselor for other individuals with disabilities, and that changed my life. Excuse me, can you just give me a drink, please? Excuse me, one moment. And I loved working there, and I learned a lot doing it. And it gave me the self-confidence to decide there's still more I want to do with my life. And I left the center and went to Hostel University School of Law and did an internship at the District Attorney's Office in Nassau County, Long Island. Liked it a lot, decided to apply for a full-time job there when I graduated. And I was fortunate that the district attorney at the time, a person by the name of Dennis Dillon, placed his hiring decision on my abilities rather than my disability. So let me tell you a bit how I started there. Right here, I had completed three years of law school, passed the difficult New York State bar exam the first time that I took it, began by participating in a very intensive four-week training program where they taught us all aspects of trial techniques from a prosecutor's perspective. I was so proud to go to court my first day, and I couldn't fit through the swinging doorways in the courtroom. They were too narrow to allow me to get through in my electric wheelchair. That's how I started. They finally had to widen all the doorways, uh, take off the swinging doors to allow me just to get through into the courtroom.

Jeanne 35:14

Wow, lesson learned for them and for a lot of places, because now, like you said, the American Disability Act has been. It changed all of that.

Ken Kunken 35:24

It sure did. It made a huge difference, not only in my life, but in so many others.

Jeanne 35:31

Well, you you put me to shame. I mean, here you are whipping through all these degrees, and I'm like, uh, I was so glad to be out of school.

Ken Kunken 35:43

It was wonderful to know that there was a lot I could still do, despite my physical disability, by trying to make the most of my intellectual ability. And by the same token, to convince others that there's a lot somebody with a disability can do to be an asset to anybody's company or business or organization. Because too many people used to feel if you have a disability, you're not

The Kenneth J. Kunken Award

Ken Kunken 36:12

able to work. And I wanted to be able to show people you can not only work, but work well. And I might add that uh the current district attorney in Ansel County, a woman by the name of Ann Donnelly, actually started an award, an annual award that she named after me, the Kenneth J. Cunkett Award. Uh it's been going on now for more than three years. And it's called the Kenneth J. Cunkett Award that she presents to the outstanding assistant district attorney each year. And I'm so honored that she named it after me.

Jeanne 36:51

What an honor. That is wonderful. So I think I keep thinking about the Rusk Institute brochure that they gave you. I think you need to rewrite that and make sure they don't recommend to people that all they could do was be a magazine salesperson.

Ken Kunken 37:10

Well, this was a pamphlet they put out more than 50 years ago.

Jeanne 37:15

I hope they've gotten better.

Ken Kunken 37:17

I believe they have. I believe they have.

Jeanne 37:20

Yeah. Okay. Well, I think um this has been wonderful.

Two Truths & A Lie 00:42:48 - Closing

Jeanne 37:24

I could keep talking to you. It's really hard to, you know, stop. But I think it's time for us to play our game. Are you ready?

Ken Kunken 37:31

I'm ready.

Jeanne 37:32

Um, so for those listening, uh, we had the guest provide us with two, three headlines. Two of them are true and one of them is false, um, or a twisted truth. Um, but anyway, we're gonna go over those headlines and then I'm gonna guess which one I think is the lie. And then we're gonna have Ken walk us through each of those headlines so that he can um tell us which at the end which one is the lie. But don't reveal it while we're going through the stories. This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts. Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, life can be different. Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder, you don't need permission to change your story. And now, as we open the door to our second sponsor, we're stepping into the world of tech. Simple socket print, the lightweight lazy, fast label print solution designed for those who need reliability without the blue. With version 1.5, you get instant printing in milliseconds, fully maintained print sequence, and automatic base 604 decoding all without needing print driver installed. If you're running SQL Server 2016 or newer, SimpleSocket Print 1.5 drops right in and gets to work. Keep your workflow simple, keep your label printing fast with Simple Socket Print. Thank you to our sponsors. So here we go. The number one is Ken lost his mother to polio when he was just 27 days old. Number two is people told Ken that he'd never have a career as a quadriplegic. In response, Ken sent out 200 resumes. And then number three, when Ken became a quadriplegic, the woman he loved left saying they had no future. So I got the feeling that number two is true. We sort of talked about that. Um, but I don't know what to guess. Uh I'm gonna say number three is a lie because I'm thinking maybe you told her to go away or you didn't have a girlfriend. I'm just gonna guess that. I have no clue. They all sound true to me. Uh anyway, can you walk us through each story?

Ken Kunken 40:10

Sure. Uh unfortunately, my mother did die from polio when I was less than one month old. Uh it was in 1950. Uh, there was a serious polio epidemic spreading throughout the country. We lived on Long Island at the time. There were actually 10 cases on our block alone. Um, my brother caught polio at that time, but fortunately, his was a mild case and he fully recovered. But unfortunately, my mother did not. Uh, and she died when I was 27 days old. Uh and of the 10 cases on our block, my mother was the only fatality. So, you know, we ended up living with my grandparents for a period of time until my father remarried, and unfortunately, it was not a happy marriage. I ended in divorce, and he married a third time. Um, but my extended family always played an important part of my life, and they helped me a great, great deal.

Jeanne 41:11

Which grandparents did you live with? Your mother or your grandparents?

Ken Kunken 41:14

We lived with my father's parents, but my mother's parents visited us virtually every day for a long period of time to help out with our care. Because my brother was only two and I was a baby, uh, and they visited very often to help with our care.

Jeanne 41:34

Nice. So the number two story uh did you send out only 200 resumes or were there more?

Ken Kunken 41:42

You know, I lost count. I lost count, but you know, I just received rejection after rejection after rejection, and it was terribly discouraging. And you didn't see many people in wheelchairs out in public back then because uh facilities were not accessible. This was well before the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act. So, you know, employers, I guess, were not used to seeing people uh with severe disabilities out in the workplace. And I always felt when the DA hired me, it took a lot of guts on his part to hire me because at that time I was the first quadriplegic on Long Island to work as an assistant district attorney. In fact, when I was at Cornell, I was the first quadriplegic to ever graduate from Cornell and the first quadriplegic ever to earn a graduate degree at Cornell. Um, so you know it was uh a lot of things that uh we were all learning for the first time that was doable, when a lot of people thought it just wasn't doable.

Jeanne 42:54

Yeah, you had a lot of first, for sure. All right, what about the third one and the love of your life?

Ken Kunken 43:02

Actually, the love of my life is the woman I'm married to now. But when I was injured, I did not have a significant girlfriend at the time. Uh I was very shy growing up and uh did not date much at all. And so I dated a lot more following my injury than before. So it was difficult.

Jeanne 43:25

Um So I think you revealed the lie there. So number three is the lie that you didn't really have a girlfriend.

Ken Kunken 43:36

So well, later, um, when I started dating Anna, uh, she became a serious girlfriend, but left me for a while. Uh and that was so depressing when she left. But I was very lucky and fortunate uh that she eventually came back. Uh, and as I say, not only did our relationship resume. She actually proposed to me. And it was her idea to have children. And everything has worked out wonderfully since then. My boys are now home on their summer break. We just had a wonderful family dinner last night. And everything is looking really good.

Jeanne 44:17

Oh, that's fantastic. So thank you for the conversation. I know people are going to definitely want to get in touch with you and read your book. I mean, it's just so intriguing to find out all these details about you. So I have a slide here that says the ways to get in touch with you. And then also your book, I Dream of Things That Never Were, the Ken Kunkin Story. It's published in 2023, and you can find it on Amazon or on your website. Is that correct?

Ken Kunken 44:47

That's correct. Thank you.

Jeanne 44:49

And I will I'll put all these links in the show notes so people will be able to reach out to you. But you uh I asked you to provide a quote that meant something to you. So you put here the quote. You want to talk about that?

Ken Kunken 45:03

While I was still in the rehab facility, I was asked to testify before a United States Health Senate subcommittee chaired by Senator Edward Kennedy. And eight days after my testimony, Senator Kennedy sent me a glass paperweight in the mail that had an inscription on it that the senator said his late brother Robert Kennedy liked very much. And the words on that inscription have always been very meaningful to me. The inscription read, Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream of things that never were and say why not. And the senator said his late brother Robert Kennedy liked that uh saying a lot and used to say that a lot in his speeches. I liked it so much that that's what I use for the title of my book, I dream of things that never were, the Ken Cumpkins story.

Jeanne 45:57

Oh. Well, that helps us to know where you got that title from, but it's beautiful. And you have dreamed of a lot of things uh that nobody would have expected you to be able to do. So thank you for sharing your time with us. This has been such a wonderful treat to me, and um, I really hope that uh people will reach out to you and I'll try to pick up your book as well because I want to read the real details behind everything and say hello to your boys when they come to dinner tonight.

Ken Kunken 46:32

Right.

Jeanne 46:33

And thank you, Anna, for helping us here. To those listening, I hope you'll tune in next week for another guest. Um, and until then, this is Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected, wishing you all smooth sailing. Bye. Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real. If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew. Otherwise, I might just make you squad the deck. I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected. See you on the next Voyage.