The Dog That Led Me with Dr. Andy Neillie | Ship's Log #39

Pets don’t respond to titles; they respond to consistency. Turns out, people aren’t much different.” — Andy Neillie 

Episode Summary 

Dr. Andy Neillie has a doctorate, a bestselling book, and five million frequent-flyer miles spent coaching leaders across Fortune 500 firms — but he’ll be the first to tell you his real education came from a string of rescued dogs. In this conversation, Andy traces his leadership philosophy back to two early bad bosses (one with an anger problem, one with an ego problem) and forward to The Golden Principles, the book a boutique publisher coaxed out of him after hearing him tell a story about a dog named Redford rescued from a puppy mill. 

Jeanne and Andy dig into what it actually takes to be “a leader worth following” — the three imperative conversations every leader must be able to have, why managers have easy conversations while leaders have hard ones, and the humbling story of the first person Andy tried to fire. Along the way they talk about “confident uncertainty,” the leader’s hour, and why the best leaders sit at the bottom of the pyramid, not the top. Andy is refreshingly candid that he’s not sure he was ever a great leader himself — just a determined student of it. 

Recorded a week after Andy and his wife lost their beloved golden Sawyer, the episode carries a tenderness that sneaks up on you — and a reminder that the day you rescue a dog, you promise to love them well, even at the end. The conversation closes with a loose, funny round of Two Truths & A Lie that proves even a man this thoughtful can still keep you guessing. 

Guest Bio  

Dr. Andy Neillie is a bestselling author, award-winning speaker, and leadership coach who teaches in Concordia University’s MBA program and has worked with leaders across Fortune 500 companies and small businesses alike. He’s the author of The Golden Principles, a set of life and leadership lessons drawn from the rescued dogs he and his wife have welcomed home over four decades. He lives in Austin, Texas, where his “love language is fur.” 

Guest Links 

Website: neillieleadership.com 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/andyneillie 

Facebook: facebook.com/andy.neillie 

X / Twitter: twitter.com/drneillie 

YouTube: youtube.com/@andyneillie1779 

eSpeakers: espeakers.com/marketplace/profile/5312 

Guest CTA 

Contact Andy to learn how The Three Imperative Leadership Conversations help leaders become powerful communicators and lead their teams well. Start at neillieleadership.com. Andy also offers a free 8-page ebook with worksheets on the three conversations.

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Transcript

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Pets don’t respond to titles (cold open)

Dr. Andy 0:00

Yeah, my my dogs should care less that I have a doctor than a best selling doctor and five million frequent flatter miles. They just want to know they're safe and protected and loved and taken care of. And you know, pets don't respond to pets, they respond to

Intro

Dr. Andy 0:15

consistency. Um turns out people aren't that much different.

Jeanne 0:41

I'm your host, Jeanne Andersen, and I have a feeling today's conversation is going to resonate with anyone who has ever wondered what it truly means to lead and what it takes to become a leader worth following. My guest today has been decades helping leaders do the hard personal work and actually becoming a leader worth following. He's a best-selling author, award-winning speaker, corporate trainer, and the man behind the Golden Principles, Life and Leadership Lessons Learned from a Rescued Dog. His doctoral research

Dr. Andy joins the conversation

Jeanne 1:15

focused on the personal side of leadership, and he has spoken to and coached leaders across Fortune 500 firms, small and mid-sized companies, and trade groups and associations. He teaches at Concordia University's MBA program, owns and operates businesses with multi-million dollar revenues, and has logged millions of miles in service of one belief. Leadership is never about you. It's about those you are called to serve. Welcome to the show, Dr. Andy.

Dr. Andy 1:51

Well, I'm doing great. I feel like a million bucks. Can you keep telling me all of the stuff I've done? It sounds more impressive than I am, that's for sure.

Jeanne 1:59

No, I

The bad bosses that started it all

Jeanne 2:00

I can't. I you did all that.

Dr. Andy 2:02

And so it means I'm old, right? It just means I'm old.

Jeanne 2:07

Hey. Well, let's don't go there with me. Uh I don't want to direct. So um so you're you're Dr. Andy Neillie. Uh, I hope I have that pronounced right.

Dr. Andy 2:18

You got it right. Thank you.

Jeanne 2:20

So I wanted to start somewhere personal because your origin story as a leadership expert doesn't begin with the business school or a boardroom. It begins with a bad boss. And I think that's actually where most people's leadership education begins.

Dr. Andy 2:36

Yeah.

Jeanne 2:37

Um so I'm gonna ask you a few questions. Uh so question one, let's just go straight to it. You described working for someone early in your career who made every day harder than it needed to be, not just a bad boss, but a bad person. What did that experience actually do to you at the time? And when did it shift from something that hurt you into something that drove you?

Dr. Andy 3:05

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and really, Jeanne, great question. There's really two tracks there. Uh I became uh Christian early in my life. My family is not a church-born family, but but I had a friend that took me to summer camp, and my faith has always been important to me. So I'm reading in the gospels about this wonderful servant leader who is laying down his life for the people he wants to influence. And then it was really, it wasn't even into my career. It was, it was a construction company I worked for when I was going to college. And I had a boss who had an owner management issue. And man, if he had a power pool and his thing will be new, of course, Biden who lost him, you better run for and I'm I'm reading about what leadership is supposed to look like. And then I'm going to work for a boss that, yeah, as you said a minute ago, he wasn't just a bad boss. He he had personal issues that got in his way and got in all of our way. And it just began to awaken in me. Man, it's supposed to be like this. It's not supposed to be like that. And he wasn't the only one. Early in my career, I I worked for a man who he didn't have an anger management issue. He had an ego issue. He took the credit for our for our team. Everything we did well, we made sure he looked good in front of the client, in front of his superiors. And this just kind of bubbled up inside me saying, Man, this is nobody can work for a bad bot. And then I just have really well, I it it's not as it's not been as strategic as all of that introduction made it sound. I just kind of stumbled my around. I'm I've been told I'm a gifted communicator, and I'm just passionate about you need to be a better person if you're going to be a better boss. And and those have come together over the last 20 plus years now to give me a platform, as you said, for keynotes and training and book writing and workshops. And and so I've just been blessed to find other leaders who want to go down that same path with me.

Jeanne 5:07

Oh, that's fantastic. So I have worked for really bad bosses myself. Uh, one bipolar, one passive aggressant. It's what do you do in those situations? And I like what you said. But I have to go back to something you said, which is that you're not a church, you're a Christian, but you're not a church-going Christian. And I wish I could credit this guy uh with this quote, but right now his name escapes me. But I I just heard it that he said, if you think that going to church makes you a Christian, then you're the same person that can sit in your garage and think it's gonna make you a car.

Dr. Andy 5:46

Well, and I probably need to correct what I said. My family was not a church-going family that I found safe as a young child, and and my wife and I are real active in our church here locally. We live in Austin, Texas, but I fully resonate with what you mean. Churches,

Faith, hospital wards, and not holy hangouts

Dr. Andy 6:00

two things. One, they're they're hospital wards, they're not holy hangouts. We all kind of limp in there. And then, and then one of our pastors a couple of months ago, he said, real life change doesn't occur in straight rows. It occurs in small groups. And so the idea that going and sitting in a garage is going to make you a car is a good analogy to going and sitting in a pew is gonna make you a Christian. So I echo what you said.

Jeanne 6:27

We're all yeah, I love that quote, and I feel bad that I can't uh give this guy credit, but it was just somebody who Google it.

Dr. Andy 6:34

One of your listeners will Google or AI.

Jeanne 6:37

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's a showing commentator broadcaster. I I just can't think of a say right now. But anyway, that's a really good um to know.

Dr. Andy 6:47

Yeah.

Jeanne 6:48

So anyway, um, I know this has been uh tough for you this past week because um we were booked, and I guess we can talk about this a little bit. We were booked to record um, you know, last week and we had to reschedule because uh you lost your dog, Sawyer. And I know that's probably a sensitive subject, so you we don't have to talk about the details, but your book, The Golden Principles, draws leadership lessons from a rescued golden retriever. So is that Sawyer?

Dr. Andy 7:22

Well, my wife and I have rescued at this point 15 dogs over the many years of our marriage, not 15 at one time. We we started with one dog and early on realized that dog needs a dog. He's chairing the house when we're not there, and and we have a friend who is a vet. And every every high-energy dog needs another dog, so we couldn't have likes him. Canyon dog. The dab will turn in. And she had one of the colors in the Grand Canyon. We were living in Arizona at the time. And then we've just been we've been blessed every time a dog passes, we find another needy dog to join our family.

Losing Sawyer: the promise you make a rescue

Dr. Andy 8:00

Sawyer, that's and you listeners, you just need well. Jeanne is one of the most kind-hearted people. She not only graciously let us reschedule relatively quickly, but oh, she and I are just meeting each other right now. And she probably reached out to me two or three times in the last week to see how we're doing. Jeannie, we've been down this path many times. Part of part of what you know, the day you rescue that dog is you've made a promise to them that you're gonna love them well, even at the end. And um yeah, so we're doing all right. The the humorous irony for me is I'm kidding. My wife, we've got a big community of friends. We'd be CrossFitters, and our gym is a dog gym. Sawyer spent a lot of time in our CrossFit gym in the last six years, and and we've got a bunch of friends group from church that we hang out with. And I think there are more more flowers at our house right now than they will be when I die, I think, because everything we that new Sawyer loved Sawyer. And um, we've got we were we had three dogs uh for the last couple of years just because we we foster failed a couple of times. We took somebody's dog in but was in a panic, and we persuaded her and handled the dog for a couple of weeks, and then we got to know the dog, and we did a hospice failure, which means we kept it. So we we've had three dogs for the last couple of years, and we're down to two dogs. And she and I were telling, even with two dogs and eight paws and 165 pounds worth of golden retriever and cattle dog there. The house still feels very quiet and and so yeah, thank you for your kindness.

Jeanne 9:37

Oh, I I'm totally a dog lover, and I was right there with you. I felt it pull for you. It was um I I don't rescue dogs, I um, but I have a breed that I love. And in some ways I rescue dogs because readers breed them, and they have to have a home, right? So we've been blessed.

Dr. Andy 9:57

And it's interesting. The dog that's on the cover of my book, Redford, was was uh a horrible situation. He was a breeding sir at a puppy mill in Arkansas. 60, 65 dogs were rescued by the sheriff's department and shipped all over the country. Rest Redford ended up in Houston, we knew that in Austin, and so Redford came into our home. This is a number of years ago now, but but Sawyer, he actually came from a breeder because we've rescued so many, primarily Goldens over the years, they're kind of in the golden network. And a breeder reached out to us 12 years ago and said, Hey, I've got a dog that we don't want to breed and we don't want to show. We just want her to have a good life. And they they gave us this dog that they normally would sell for, I don't know, three or four thousand dollars. They just they wanted her, her original name was Sriracha. All of the breeders and you know this if you pipe from breeds, their dogs all have a theme that that litter. And so there was like Chipotle, and and they were all and Sriracha didn't fit this mellow, chill dog. My wife's maiden name was Sawyer. And so we thought, all right, Sriracha and Sawyer, this dog will be able to make the transition to that new name relatively easy.

Jeanne 11:09

And oh, that's nice. I like the name a lot.

Dr. Andy 11:13

Yeah, sweetest, gentlest dog. And she would just she was no trouble, and you wouldn't even know she was there, and then you look down and she was laying right by your feet. And you'd get up and wink to another room and you wouldn't know she was there, and then you'd look down and she was laying by your feet. She just she just was a comfort dog. Well, thank you.

Jeanne 11:31

Yeah, wow.

Dr. Andy 11:33

It's kind hearted to ask.

Jeanne 11:34

Oh, no, no problem. I know it's emotional for you because it's just recent, it's like a big wound. It uh we uh we had uh we have inklings of our we I like losses, loss of okay, yeah.

Dr. Andy 11:48

Um dogs big personalities, yeah.

Jeanne 11:53

And uh when one of them will get sick, we kind of get another dog. So sometimes we've had three dogs. We just kind of are trying to anticipate because they need the time to bond together. And the last one we just got we called Maximilian Kisses. Big dogs, he's he's like a really sweetie pie and wants to lick everybody.

Dr. Andy 12:14

Oh, sweet.

Jeanne 12:17

We could talk about dogs or ever, I'm pretty sure, because you love them so much and so do I. But it's not an obvious leak for a doctoral researcher and corporate speaker to write up or study leadership as a dog. I mean, can you tell us more about what you were learning from these dogs?

Dr. Andy 12:36

Well, on paper, it's not an outbreak suite, but um so more than 15 years ago now, I I've been kind of one of those classic keynoters who have speaker trot associations and company meetings. I'm the kickoff speaker. Leadership motivational speech was about Redford, this dog that's on the cover of the book. At this conference, there was a uh boutique publisher, a small independent publisher. He came up to me and we started talking, and he basically asked, You got any other dog stories? And I just said, Man, despite a doctorate, despite having written books, despite five million sequencing miles of working with Zneavers Golbering, I think I've learned more from those dogs than anything else. And so Kent said, Andy that would be a great book. And a year later, the Golden Principles came out. And and Jeanne, it's these simple lessons, but they are leadership lessons. I think you know, it takes

How a dog named Redford became a book

Dr. Andy 13:30

time to build trust. Well, that's true when you're rescuing a wounded-hearted dog that's lived in a crate for the first year of his life and he doesn't know people from anything. It's also true for team members. If you're a new manager that's just been promoted, or if you include intermittent position thing outside the organization, trust. Trust is really a four-letter word, T-I-N-E. And then one of, you know, one of the one of the lessons I learned early on was Redford. He heavy had a he just had a habit of running. If we by chance left the door open, man, he was gone. And we would yell at him, no. And and after a while, we realized part of what we've got to do is make him so happy to see us, he doesn't want to run away. And really, it became the the principle in the book that a proactive yes is always better than a reactive no. Well, once again, that's a good lesson for a dog. But Jeanne, you and I have worked with enough leaders and managers to know that's good leadership right there as well, isn't it? It's it's anticipating what's coming and being able to get in front of the curve. So the book is kind of a chicken soup for the soul bloke with I think 10 different stories of different dogs we've rescued and what I learned from each one of these dogs about trust and about meeting people wherever at, and about being ahead of the curve, and about looking at each day as a new day with confident uncertainty, but still on things. So um Yeah, I mean it's it's it's funny. 15 the book was published more than 15 years ago, and I stunk it asked a bag, can you deliver that speech? And can we get copies of your book? So I think all of us all of us resonate with dogs more than a dissertation topic on the personal side of leading well.

Jeanne 15:19

Well, as you're saying this, it's making me faint a little bit. And this wasn't a question I intended to ask, but don't you think people can kind of feel less intimidated through a story of a dog that might touch something that they're doing wrong or that, you know, they need training in?

Dr. Andy 15:35

Yeah, well, I agree. I mean, and that's you know, um, that that whole aspect of leadership is supremely simple. That doesn't mean it's easy. But it but it is pretty simple. Dogs, they just want you to be consistent, they want you to show up, they need to know you're there for them. They need the protection of your oversight, but not the domination of your oversight. And and I think dogs, there's there's three cats that show up in the book as well. We've rescued animals for for since four years into our marriage. And perhaps, you know, we all kid about dogs had masters and cats had servants, but cats need good owners as well. And so all of us do. Yeah. Good question.

Jeanne 16:20

Yeah, I think um, oh man, I'm full of quotes today. I wish I could say because of the people who use that tip. But another one I just told it to my husband when I read it, I was like, uh, somebody wrote, cats and women, they do what they want. Men and dogs just have to learn to live with it.

Dr. Andy 16:38

Where else? I'll be careful. I'm not I'm not gonna respond to that quote. My wife listens to my podcast, I'll end up getting in big trouble.

Jeanne 16:45

Yeah, well, I say about myself.

Dr. Andy 16:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeanne 16:49

So you know, you talk about leadership being personal, the slow, patient people work first, but that runs against how a lot of organizations actually reward leaders. Like they want fast results, they want hard metrics, they want decisive moves. How do you help them get to the personal side of people management?

Dr. Andy 17:10

Yeah, probably first of all, I'll say two things. Um, while I had a doctor and I've worked in Boss Cellar, I've got all these mods out. I'm not sure I was ever really a good leader. I've led teams, I've led organizations, I've learned businesses. What I think I'm fine to do is be a student of good leadership. And so I look at people that seem to manage that tension. Yeah, and and what are they doing? But here's the second thing I want to say. It is always attention. Um, leadership might be simple, but it's not easy. And and one of my one of my graduate school professors talked about the difference between static equilibrium and dynamic equilibrium, who said you got a bowl, you got a marble, and if you hold the bowl like this, you drop the marble in, it'll eventually just get down and sit in the bottom of the bowl. That's just static equilibrium. It doesn't take any energy to to keep it there. Leadership, the bowl's been stepped upside down. You still have the marble, you still have the bowl, but you're always doing this because you never quite get it right. And so as you and I talk together, you'll I mean you'll hear me say, working at becoming a

The personal side of leadership

Dr. Andy 18:20

high performing leader. Managers can work at becoming a high performing leader. I'm not sure any of us are alive, particularly in the 2020s, because we live in a time of incredible volatility and and and you know, we don't know what tomorrow's going to bring, and and the need for financial acumen, um corporate governance acumen, um people acumen. Now he's gotta add in the layer of digital and AI's acumen. How do we just stay in sound of all of this? And the best ones are always practicing dynamic equilibrium, I think. We never quite get it back, but we're always doing mid-course corrections.

Jeanne 19:00

Right. Right. I'm sure you um you go to leaders and they have a lot of resistance. How do you get around that? Um, I mean, you you have been very successful in dealing with a lot of corporations, especially when I read multi-million dollar organizations. So

Dr. Andy 19:16

Yeah, yeah. Well, to be real honest, I I don't I don't fit with everybody because the look the the organizations you described a couple of minutes ago. I I remember working with the sales management team, gosh, a number of years ago for a medical device company. I had been contracted by senior leadership in the organization to work with the sales managers. They were having very high turnover on their sales team, and they wanted me to work with the sales managers. And and I typically start the sales management work I do with an online self-assessment, and then we meet together in a workshop setting. Well, the person that hired me wasn't at the meeting, but the senior sales manager was, and he he introduced me by basically saying, Hey, we're supposed to spend the day with this guy. I say we give him about 30 minutes. If if he's not worth it, let's just go make some money. And I thought, man, I I don't I don't know if I'm gonna be able to work with this, with this team. So I'm not the right fit for every organization. On the one hand. On the other hand, Jeanne, I think most people who aspire to be good people and good leaders, they know inside them it's fired. And and how can I do that better? And for for those people, you know, I love to come along the sideboard really as an outside advisor and cheer them on. Army, because I'd made all the mistakes they made. I inspired people incorrectly. I've given people bonuses that didn't deserve the bonus, expecting them to improve performance, and they quit on me right after that. Uh I I waffed away from hard conversations that I should have leaned into. So part of why I'm accepting with believers if I am at all is because uh I am one of them and I haven't done it well at times.

Jeanne 21:12

Yeah, listening to you, it I guess it everybody needs to go through the pains and of learning uh themselves and in learning leadership, but you don't seem like somebody that struggled.

Dr. Andy 21:26

You have a lot of so uh well I'm just old. I've been around a long time.

Jeanne 21:32

Oh you describe the three imperative leadership conversations, conversations every leader must be able to have. Is that what you're kind of getting you know getting into as you were discussing?

Dr. Andy 21:46

I I don't gee, here's the thing. I know managers have easy conversations, leaders have hard conversations. In fact, if you and I are wanting to look from the outside, who are really the leaders in the organizations, they're the ones that are willing to have the hard conversations. So the first imperative leader conversation is a leader needs to be able to hold a hard conversation. And now once again, you you're giving me credit for experience and not necessarily wisdom. The first person I was going to fire, actually, I I fought for her job. My manager told me to fire. I was running a sales team, and this salesperson, she just um, she just no-showed on a big event where we were really counting on her delivering some some customers. And she just run A-WOL on us. My boss said that's the final straw. She needs to go. Andy, that let her go. I fought for her job, thinking that's what a good meter does, right? I'm for my people. I'm on their side. And so he let me give her one more chance, but I had to put her on a performance improvement plan. I called a meeting where she and I can meet one-on-one. And I was just gonna kind of lay out the law on Jeanne. She walked into my office, started swearing at me in tears, screaming and hollering. She quit on the spot, walked out of my office, went to work for one of our competitors and took business problems. I walked out trying to figure out what am I gonna say to the rest of my team now? And Todd turned to me and said, Well, what took you so long?

Managers vs leaders: the hard conversation

Dr. Andy 23:15

They all knew she needed to be fired. I was the one that wasn't doing the right thing. There's no good answer there, right? So when I work with leaders, all I do is I tell the man, here's what I did. You're thinking about doing this. Let me tell you how it worked out because it didn't. And and I will lock onside you as you're on to have a hard conversation. There are some best practices for holding a hard conversation. How do you hold a hard conversation without it become a harsh conversation? How do you plan for it? How do you anticipate? How do you help

What took you so long - the firing he got wrong

Dr. Andy 23:45

them find some type of win in the midst of what feels like a loss? How do you take care of yourself as a leader when you have to lean into a hard conversation? There's some best practices. So that's that's one of the leadership conversations. The other two, I think every leader needs to be a coach where you're not just holding people accountable to performance, but you're asking them how are they improving and giving that your tools and skills. So leadership conversation is the coaching conversation. And then Jeanne, very briefly, the third one is kind of what we're getting to do today. We're affirming each other. Every leader knows I've got to be making those deposits that you want to be alluded to. And so leaders need to practice what I call the threefold affirmation conversation. If somebody has a win, that's the first affirmation. Celebrate it by asking them to tell you about it, and then celebrate it in front of the rest of the team by asking them to share with the tune. The threefold affirmation conversation. So I'm not sure that defines leaders, but if leaders are working on those three conversations, they're thinking about what does it take to become a high performing looter.

Jeanne 24:52

It might not define it, but it'll build them. I mean, it's the roadmap.

Dr. Andy 24:56

Yeah.

Jeanne 24:57

I like a couple things you said, come alongside you. I like that thought because you also mentioned a term I don't use very much and don't really love is lean in, because I got to know lean in from a corporate perspective. It's like it always felt like lean in and help this person, who usually was lean in and do their job because they weren't qualified. So, but the come alongside is really cool. I like that. That's a new one for me. Maybe I've just missed that book.

Dr. Andy 25:24

Or you are well, the thing is, I've also that those three imperative leadership conversations. I know you know this because you did your sterile preparation. I've got a simple little eight-page e-book that anybody still seeing wants to download to learn more. There's some worksheets in there. They can get that that ebook at leadershipmaterials.com. So it's a free download. They can they can sign up and download that ebook. I'm not sure it fully defines leaders, but uh, I know if leaders are having the kind of conversation they need to have. That's one of the things that moves them from being a manager on the path toward that high-performing leader.

Jeanne 26:01

Okay. Well, I I I used to pride myself in building good teams. Um, I'm not sure I was the best leader all the time either, but um, I like to build teams. And a lot of what you're talking about is just helping and coming alongside them and building them up. I mean, it's uh you have to some people don't want to be leaders. And so when you reach, you know, when you're in a corporate environment or in any environment where you find that the person really doesn't want to be a leader, they're out, they're a misfit. Uh, how do you coach that or how do you help those people see their value and and determine what they need to do next or how they need to shift?

Dr. Andy 26:42

Yeah. Well, part of it comes down to that um then self-assessment. And I take a lot of mind leaders through and helping them recognize what they are really good at. Unfortunately, you identified one of the problems in corporate America is if somebody's really good at their job, then they get promoted and, you know, 30 years ago, I think isn't exactly as we're calling it the Peter principle. I don't know quite why it was called the Peter principle, but it was you always get promoted and leveled beyond your competence. Some of the best salespeople I've ever worked with realized what I'm really good at is client relationships. What I'm really good at is building trust outside the organization and closing business based on that. And so for me and them to agree, you've probably not wired to be a sales manager because the sales manager has to make it about other winners. Your yourself winning. I think that one of the finding characteristics I talk with emerging leaders about is in the 2020s particular, and we have completely confused 10,000 follower influencers, as if they have anything to say about leadership. That is not leadership. Leadership was oftentimes invisible. It's the last to get to credit rather than first to get to credit. Leaders are the bottom of the pyramid and not the top of the pyramid. And and there are some people that are wired for that. There are a lot of people that can learn that. But there are also some people that just say, you know what, I'd rather be right outside doing my own thing. And there are those wonderful individual performers. And with them, Earth is helping them do enough self-assessment to say, I'm gonna be happier, my family's gonna be happier, my dog and cat are gonna be happier because I'm gonna be happier, and the organization will be happier if I just continue to sit on my laptop writing code with AI, because that's what I'm really good at.

Jeanne 28:38

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Uh, I I think a lot of people just need to um to figure that out for themselves because um corporate environments are always trying to push you to move to the next level or to push you to lead, you know, and that's not for everybody. So you need to find your niche. But you talked about wisdom and you know, you and I both know then that wisdom in the Bible is Solomon. I mean, you can get a lot of um information from studying Solomon and also some strange things as well. But um if a manager is listening right now, someone who genuinely wants to lead better but doesn't know where to start, what's the one thing you tell them to do differently starting tomorrow?

Dr. Andy 29:30

I mean recognize they've got to leave themselves first before they can meet other people. I call it the leader's hour. It's not a 60-minute hour, but man, I've I grew up with so many neighbors who are morning people because they have to get up and get their head and heart right for the day. Until they get up. And for me, there's some spiritual disciplines around that of Bible reading and prayer, but but for all of the good leaders I work for specimen and time management, Harvard Business Review. The the current issue had a uh interview with the lady that is the president of the electorals of Australia. So she works with boards in Australia, and she said she gets up uh and spends the first portion of her day thinking about her schedule, thinking about the outcomes thinking about the conversations she's going to have. Whatever that looks like, the best leaders I work with, they start their day thinking about how can they make the biggest impact on the day. Now, some of your uh listeners are not morning chief. I've worked with some real great, particularly salespeople, who Sunday night after the dishes are done and the laundry throwboard and the fids went drilled, you know, they open up their laptop for a couple of hours on Sunday night and have what I would call their version of a leader's hour. It doesn't have to be at 5 30 in the morning, but it does even be ahead of the curve. That's the one thing I think I'd say to leaders is you are proactors, um reactors, if you're truly trying to become a hypersonic leader.

Jeanne 31:14

But you can't uh that's really great advice, but you can't um also lead and expect I I'm just reacting to you saying the leaders opening their laptop at a Sunday night for a leader's hour, which is great, as long as they

The leader’s hour and confident uncertainty

Jeanne 31:30

they contain it and don't start directing. And then that they expect to hear from first thing the next no, that's right.

Dr. Andy 31:39

So that wouldn't work for me. I I I've only got about an 85 IQ to begin. You give me past 8:30 or 9 o'clock at night in my IQ fun of so. But but you're exactly right. And you know, the nice thing about email is you can send emails to go out the next morning or the following day. This is really more a time for you. But you know, the other thing that needs to be balanced with Jeanne is is um one of the things I learned when COVID hit, and my wife and I had to shut down all of our businesses. We had a bunch of retail businesses. I had about 125 people with a management team of about a dozen, and all of a sudden we were told to lock the doors. And um, and and if if we all remember those days, we didn't know one day from the other. And so we just started meeting as a leadership team by Zoom. We were all learning how to use virtual platform and teens and Zoom and WebEx and all of that. We started using Zoom at first, and we would just meet every morning, one for mutual encouragement, and then two to figure out what we were doing that day. And we ended up using a term. I don't think we coined the term, I think I heard it someplace else, but it became part of our language, and and we called it confident uncertainty. And one of the defining characteristics of leaders in 2020s is man, you gotta lean in by using the phrase you don't like. You've got you've got to push toward whatever you know you need to push toward with confidence, recognizing it might change tomorrow. You've got to be agile enough, I guess, is what uh what the software writers and designers would tell us. So I like that too. Yeah, yeah. So confident uncertainty. I think leaders in the 2020s who are living in times of uncertainty and volatility, um, we need to lead with confident uncertainty. Man, I'm putting my best foot forward today. And if tomorrow changes, we'll figure out tomorrow, tomorrow.

Jeanne 33:33

Yeah, that's great. That's great. I mean, I I going back to that time, it was um uncertainty for me. I don't know if my leadership was confident in what was going on, but I like what you say. Yeah, that's great. So, hey, this has been so fantastic. And I know that um, you know, you have more to say and I have more questions to ask, but we have to transition to the signature game of Project Candle, which is two truths and a lie.

Dr. Andy 34:07

Yeah, I can't even remember. You and I talked about this a while back. I honestly can't remember. So little surprise.

Jeanne 34:14

Yeah, so uh we might have already covered a lot of this, but the way this game goes for those who are listening, um, the guest has provided me with three headlines of his life. Two are true, and one is a lie or a twisted truth, or just some exaggeration of a true story. So we will read those headlines. I'm gonna guess which one I think is the lie, and then um Andy's gonna take us through all of those one by one, but not tell us which one is the lie until the very end, and then I'll see if I got it right. This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts. Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, life can be different. Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder you don't need permission to change your story. And now, as we open the door to our second sponsor, we're stepping into the world of tech. Simple socket print, the lightweight blazing fast label print solution designed for those who need reliability without the blue. With version 1.5, you get instant printing in milliseconds, fully maintained print sequence, and automatic base 64 decoding all without needing print driver installs. If you're running SQL Server 2016 or newer, Simple Socket Print 1.5 drops right in and gets to work. Keep your workflow simple, keep your label printing fast with Simple Socket Print. Thank you to our sponsors. So, number one, Dr. Andy has been rescuing

Two Truths and a Lie

Jeanne 36:00

dogs for more than 40 years. Okay, that's a no-brainer. I don't know. Maybe the 40 years is not right. I I don't know if we said that. Number two, loved and cared for beyond measure. A Scottish Terrier was Dr. Andy's first dog. Uh, we didn't talk about the Scottish Terrier yet. Um, number three, all about animals and totally dedicated to dogs. Dr. Andy attended vet school in Fort Collins, Colorado, which I actually know where that is.

Dr. Andy 36:29

Um Grade vet school.

Jeanne 36:31

Is it? Uh I lived in Laramie, Wyoming for a while. We don't talk about that much here. I thought it was a different place. Uh, okay, so me, I'm gonna guess number three, you didn't go to vet school because it doesn't sound like it, but I don't know for sure. So you walk us through the stories and tell us a little bit about each one of them before you tell us the lie.

Dr. Andy 36:54

Well, you know, we've kidded a little bit about uh all I really bring to the table is that I'm old. Um number one is true. My wife and I have been married for more than 40 years, and

Jeanne 37:05

Don't tell us until it ends.

Dr. Andy 37:07

Oh don't uh well, all right. That takes us down to a 50-50 chance. All right. So we our first rescue dog was Alex, and the only reason we rescued him rather than just going to the pet store or something and getting him, is my wife's parents had uh a friend who was a vet, and we had just bought our first house, and and um we knew we needed a dog, and my wife talked to her parents and said, Hey, this vet, somebody just turned in a dog that needs a hunt. And so Alex uh came into our home. So that was that was a true truth there. All right. Um, while my wife and I have primarily rescued golden retrievers over the years, hence the name of the book, The Volden Principles. And um, we've had various breeds that have shown up and right now. We have a cattle dog who's art cattle dog, part German shepherd, part Great Pyrenees. Um, it's a big dog. Um, and three things that are true cattle dogs need a job. German shepherds are smarter than you and me, and Great Pyrenees are stubborn. And so our current other dog is a golden retriever who's the nicest dog in the world. And then we've got Traveler, Cattle dog who needs a job, German shepherds who's smarter than us, and Great Pyrenees who's stubborn. And and we named him Traveler. We he he showed up running in a neighborhood and where my own daughter lives, and she kind of corrals him and um and he had some miles on him. So uh she asked us if we could hold on to him for a couple of days. We we um plumped the fostering and F10, but traveler uh was a uh was a mess, and he is still a challenge at times because he's not the golden retreater that just wants to please you. Molly was a Scottish terrier that kind of came to us the same way, and Scotties are small, but they're just pugnacious. So um so the book is full of stories primarily about golems, but about all of our dogs. And then um so that's number two. What kind of you want to all right? So Fort Collins has got one of the best bet schools in the country. I live in Texas now, so if we had lived in Texas, I probably would have gone to AM vet school in College Solution, Texas, but we didn't Arizona at the time. And when I was looking for um where to do my advanced studies after my undergrad, I had some friends that lived in in uh Denver, and I had gone up there to some like Bible seminars or something. And so I kind of knew the front range. Um I'd spent a bit of time in Cheyenne, Wyoming, not too close to Lair. I mean, these states are so huge, but Cheyenne is also in Plum Education. I think it's Denver, Fort Collins, Cheyenne, they're all along that same corridor. And so it was just natural for me to go to uh vet school at Fort Collins. Um but yeah, I I went to vet school there, but I didn't finish vet school there. I realized, you know what, I don't I don't want to be young as people that are unhappy about their dogs because they're costing me too much money all the time. So so yeah, I attended vet school, but then I went a different direction. So um now what do we do?

Jeanne 40:39

What's your lie? I don't see a lie in here. I said it was three, but you did say you attended school.

Dr. Andy 40:45

Well no, I thought I was supposed to lie. I didn't attend school. Unfortunately, um I I didn't attend there. I do have a doctorate, but I didn't get it from Fort Collins. It is a great great vet school, one of the premier vet schools in the country. And I know a number of people that have gone there because my wife and I kind of live in the rescue community. And no. My doctorate is from a graduate theology school and not a school. You got it right. Yay. And and the and uh you the Scottish Terrier was actually my dog when I was growing up. My family got me this dog, and well, I mean, it was our family dog, but I was the one that took care of itself. So Molly was a Scottish Terrier and really my first my first scout growing up.

Jeanne 41:29

And I bet you did a great job because your parents didn't have to force you to do it.

Dr. Andy 41:37

Yeah. Yeah, Scott ies are. Scott ies are pugnacious . They Rables can kind of do their own things. So Molly and I learned again along. Molly was naming the dog, they would jump up and lie by your feet and bell at night. And that's all our golden's do, right? Or they just pull it through you because that somehow wired them. Yeah.

Jeanne 41:56

I have my own golden story I want to tell you. We lived a little bit of time in Roswell, Georgia. That was when so Wyoming comes back. I lived in Wyoming. I had to get out of there as fast as I could. It was just not my place. And so we my husband got us back to Georgia. We stayed there for a year and a half and finally got back to Florida. But um, why I left, I don't know. But um anyway, um in coming back to um there with in Roswell, Georgia, our neighbor got a

Molly, Lake, and a house that loves dogs

Jeanne 42:30

baby puppy golden. And they called it Ryder. Ryder was a sweetheart. It got just you know, started growing rapidly. And we gave it this Harley Davidson boot toy. It squeaked it all the time. It was cute as can be. But then it got big. And then we watched them from time to time pulling out their rugs and drying them on the porch. The next thing we uh saw them pulling out their carpet in every place. I was like, Golden, I'm never gonna get one.

Dr. Andy 43:07

Yeah.

Jeanne 43:08

That's my golden story.

Dr. Andy 43:09

My wife does say our our love language is fur because we have had goldens forever, and you just kind of realize what's so me. You come to our house, then you'll be covered in dogs. But he said if you don't like dogs, we'll just meet at a restaurant because dogs come first.

Jeanne 43:31

Yeah, well, I love dogs, and it wouldn't bother me to go there, but I can't imagine me tearing out my car phase.

Dr. Andy 43:37

And I mentioned Traveler, Traveler's partner now. Angels graciously touched. We lost Sawyer a week ago. Uh Lake is our other rescue and his situation, maybe was similar to your neighbors. We we rescued him a little bit more than a year ago. He spent his first year of life. From what we understand, um, family went through a divorce, and the mom got her preteen daughter a puppy so that she wouldn't lose so sad. But the puppy went from being 12 pounds to 75 pounds. The little dog was the big dog living in a crate in the girl's bedroom, and they just weren't equipped to handle Lake. And so we we took Lake in for supposedly three weeks until the Golden Retreater Rescue Group could find a home. And and my wife fell in love with this dog, and we foster failed uh and kept him. So underfoot today, I have Traveler, this stubborn cattle dog, and Lake, this happy so lucky, high-energy golden, who he's at the end of that destructive phase. They laugh about there's there's three phases of Goldens. There's the puppy phase, and there's the wonderful grown dog phase, but in between is the velociraptor phase. And I think your neighbors experience that. We're at the end of that now.

Jeanne 44:56

So yeah, the whole neighborhood, the whole neighborhood was in love with this little puppy, and they're like, oh, what a cutie pie. Oh, we all want it. Well, anyway, I I know people are gonna want to get in touch with you, so I want to tell them how they chant. So on screen, I'm gonna show them all of your contact information. Oh, look at all of that. Yeah, and that link will be all these links will be in the show notes, and you'll be able to get them there if you don't catch them now. But please reach out to Dr. Um Neillie. Do you have you had a quote here? Do you want to talk about that?

Dr. Andy 45:30

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, my my dogs could care less that I have a doctorate and the best selling off there in five million frequent flyer miles. They just want to know they're safe and protected and loved and taken care of. And, you know, pets don't respond to titles, they respond to consistency. And uh, and as you and I have been talking about for the last two minutes at this point, turns out people aren't that much different.

Jeanne 45:56

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Well, um please get in touch with Dr. Andy. Um, and I am so honored that you came on the show today. For those of you listening, I hope you tune in next week for another episode of Project Candor and another great guest. And until then, from your Admiral of the Unexpected, I'm Jeanne Andersen, your host, and I wish you smooth sailing. Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real. If

Where to find Andy and closing

Jeanne 46:30

today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew. Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck. I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected. See you on the next Voyage.