Growing Through The Madness
Tagline: Hustle vibes and a lil chaos.
Hosted by Abi, Growing Through the Madness is a vibrant podcast where storytelling meets culture & where everyday growth is celebrated!
This is your dose of hustle, heart, and some chaos. We dive into personal journeys, societal shifts, and the rich experiences - all through a relatable lens.
From life realizations to cultural hot-takes, Abi brings her unique voice as an African Canadian; creating space for real talk and real growth. No experts, No preaching - just honest stories, shared lessons, and a whole lot of love.
Cheers to growing through life's madness!
🎙️ New episodes bi-weekly — moving to weekly soon
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🎥 Watch on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@GrowingTTM
Growing Through The Madness
Creativity, Career Pivots, and Dating in Toronto Ft. Justina Ikwu
Justina Ikwu, also known as J.T. shares her journey from aspiring cardiovascular surgeon to becoming finance professional and community leader while discussing her artistic pursuits and perspectives on dating in Toronto.
• Once dreamed of becoming a doctor due to family expectations and inspiration from medical dramas
• Pivoted to banking and finance after graduation as a "survival mechanism" as an international student
• Rose to become president of the Canadian Association of Urban Finance Professionals (CAUFP)
• Started digital painting in 2016 and recently held her first art exhibition
• Believes in approaching life with authenticity while maintaining clear boundaries
• Values creativity in both professional and personal pursuits
• Approaches dating with optimism while being realistic about compatibility
• Looks for a partner who is honest, accountable, God-fearing, family-oriented and creative
• Lives by the philosophy: "You attract what you're becoming" <AMEN>
You can find Justina's artwork on Instagram @nxonpro19, her personal IG is @JustinaIkwu, you can connect with her professionally on LinkedIn under Justina Ikwu.
yeah, cheers to cheers and congrats on your podcast. Thank you, girl. Hopefully I'll be here in like a year from now you're supposed to drink that it's bad luck, oh yeah yikes.
Speaker 1:no, we have to do it again, because now you, you, let's get to it. So my first guest today is Justina, thank you. So do you want to introduce yourself to everybody? Hi, everyone.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Growing Through the Madness Growing Through the Madness madness GTM my name is Justina Iko, also known as GT the GT of Toronto. I'm sure there's a GT of Toronto somewhere somewhere out there. But yeah, I think you're going to get to know me a bit more during this session, so I'm gonna spill a little more tea maybe later.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna spill a little bit more about myself later so I'm just gonna pass it over to abby, so I have a few questions for you, but yeah, so like how did we meet again, do you remember how we met?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we met through a mutual friend. Yeah, you were prepping for an interview. Yeah, a case interview.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I was trying. At that time in my life I thought maybe I'm going to be a consultant in one of these consultant firms and then I had an interview lined up and I was introduced to Justina to help me prep. Yeah, which was really nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, prepping is always intimidating, so when I can support, I always lean in that's how we met.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now we're friends. Yeah, and now I mean she can't get rid of me. So I cannot okay, good, I don't know, she's great. Okay, good, good, ah, ah, like no, no, she's great. She's great, good, good, good, good, good. So you know, there's a question that I'm always very curious about, and it's I always wanted to know what you wanted to be when you grew up. Like I like to ask everybody when you were a kid, what did you feel like? Oh, this is what I want to be when I grow up.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be a doctor, a cardiovascular surgeon damn, that's a lot it's just one of those aspirations you have because, as a matter of fact, you grew up in a Nigerian household.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask. Actually, did your parents say, oh Justin, are you going to be a doctor, is that your doctor, lawyer or what's the last one, I don't even know? An engineer? Accounting was like second level, that is true. Doctor, engineer or lawyer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a bit of both. I had siblings who were already in that space and my dad always had this rhetoric that I would take care of him when he gets older and I said I was just going to be a doctor. And then I watched a lot of Grey's Anatomy and I got inspired by Christina Yang, so I just really leaned into that narrative of becoming a surgeon. So, that was my earliest memory of a career.
Speaker 1:Okay, so funniest story is I. I don't really like hospital shows and I'm not sure why I just have never gotten into them. I think the only one that I watched was dexter, and it may have been peer pressure.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed it is dexter hospital wasn't that about the shirt it's not.
Speaker 1:There's another one. No, it's not, sorry, see, I like, I like serial killer stuff, but like it's not dexter. There's another one. It was a doctor, but he was, uh, it was a crazy doctor, but he was like I think it was. He was so smart. House, oh god, yes, house was the only one I watched. I think, guys, it was just because At school everybody talked you just don't want to be left out At high school, like in Nigeria, you don't want to be, I think, here too, everywhere, you don't want to be left out.
Speaker 2:Talking about hockey game at work and you don't really watch hockey.
Speaker 1:I couldn't be left out as a teenager, so I watched house, yeah, but I've never really gotten into like hospital shows. I mean it's a little bit of drama.
Speaker 2:It's a little bit morbid. I don't like smell of hospital. It's all exciting yeah, but that was my first career choice okay, second. My second career choice. I think I would be a physiotherapist.
Speaker 1:So still in that line, still in that line In healthcare, still in healthcare.
Speaker 2:I was a science student for the longest time and I think in my third year of uni I went to go into pathophysiology. And I think in my third year of uni I went there to go into pathophysiology. So where you're studying the origination of diseases and trying to figure out um, creative, I guess pathways to come up with treatments for them. So you have to understand how something works to figure out how you can work around it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know the funny thing I'm learning a lot today because I've never had that before in my life. Honestly, I was so path, you're what?
Speaker 2:path you're physiology. I was really keen on doing that because I remember I messaged one of my professors like, oh my god, like I'm so into whatever he was teaching me at that point in time.
Speaker 1:But I tend to be keen and excited about new topics anyways so why did you move all the way from health care to finance? Because now justin is a health it's. She's not in health care, she's in finance. She's a fine. Let me reintroduce this girl for like what? Two, three years? Was it three years? Um, like how long have I been in finance? No, my question is so she used to be the president of the canadian association of auburn auburn finance professionals in canada, which is a big deal, and so I don't know how she went from health care all the way she went to business. Who motivated you to just like pivot that way?
Speaker 2:great question. I would say I pivoted into banking and finance after I graduated from undergrad, as a survival mechanism. Okay, I'm being honest, and I'm sure some international students can relate, where you're figuring out how to get a work permit, how to become a permanent resident, how to become a citizen, and you're looking for the path of least resistance. So that's how I ended up in banking and I've been here since 2017. Now I've worked in various capacity operationally, so as an analyst across fraud risk account operations, and now I'm working in business and strategy in the number one bank in Canada.
Speaker 1:Okay, girl, boss, babe, I see you, I see you. So I wanted to talk a little bit about how you were able to put yourself out there to become the president of coffee c-a-u-f-b. Coffee coffee. It is a mouthful so um. So, like I just wanted to tell us, how did you, what did you do, what steps did you make to put yourself out there to you know, to get them to trust you? Because, because you were pretty young at that, you were like in your mid-20s, right.
Speaker 2:I was like in my late 20s.
Speaker 2:So my first exposure to the organization, which started 28 years ago now, was when I was getting my MBA in 2020. This association had an event with a consulting firm, okay, and I was curious to learn about the firm. So I attended the event and I was like, oh, this is nice. This is an association that is focused on elevating black professionals in financial services, but once in a while they would collaborate on socially impacted events with other industries. So like consulting, um, sometimes tech, yeah, but our the main focus was, or is still, financial services. So that was my first encounter and I I just thought to myself like I wish I knew about this when I was in my undergrad. Right, maybe it would have helped me accelerate my growth or be more focused on what I wanted to do and maybe move out of that sense of survival.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't mind survival and just saying, okay, I just need to do what I need to do to get to the next stage. And then, towards the end of my MBA, one of my strategy professors hinted that a lot of us would become VPs in the first three years, which is true, that's very true Reality. Reality kicks in as you go older, and he recommended applying yourself in various ways in your community, giving back, being part of a non-profit, volunteering and taking all those skills you're learning and bringing it back to the organization to elevate your profile.
Speaker 2:And he took that very seriously because I respected his recommendation. So I was looking for an organization that aligned with my values and would also create a sense of meaning for me and I was like, honestly, I really know about this organization. I attended one of the events. I'm just going to go volunteer there. So at that point in time we were doing call-outs for roles in their operational board, so not advisory board. Okay, basically, you're going to hire or recruit people volunteers who can help run the day-to-day of the nonprofit. So I put my hand up. I applied actually to be VP of operations but because they required someone with existing knowledge of the operations, they recommended I take up this director of youth engagement, since I had experience working with student groups.
Speaker 2:In my MBA I was vice president of the student council okay, so you started this journey from university like you started to do like your 2020 yeah from undergrad no from grad school so after my like during after my MBA was when I applied to um be part of the organization um, and then I joined and the first time I'm someone who, when I say I'm going to do something, I do it all the way.
Speaker 1:I don't care if I'm getting paid.
Speaker 2:I love solving a good problem. I love applying myself, so I was able to take up that role and was able to. I was.
Speaker 1:I was identified as someone who could lead that portfolio down the line, so this was in 2020, 2021, yeah so I'm going to interrupt you a little bit yeah so you said that I'm going to pick on what you said about how, um, you were identified as someone who could lead, so did you have a mentor or somebody like? Did somebody call you at some point, say, hey, justina, these are some of the things that I'm seeing in you and I would like you to apply yourself. Did you get mentors along the way that helped you, or did you see that in yourself, or was it a little bit of both?
Speaker 2:That's a great question.
Speaker 2:I've always seen myself as someone who's highly capable in learning and leading people along. So, to answer your question, question the president at the time I think towards the end of his tenure recommended that I stay on board and become the vice president of that portfolio. I was leading oh, that's really good because I was basically doing the work of the vice president, um and then I took up that portfolio in 2022 under different leadership, and I was able to create structure and more meaning towards the work we were doing within that group and it was also, I think, during that year, there was an opportunity for me to step in and save the day. You want to call it that due to, I guess, due to leadership constraints I think that's the best way to call it that um, due to, I guess. Um due to leadership constraint I think that's the best way to put it and um. After that experience, a lot of people in the organization saw me as a figurehead, because I was able to step up and rise to the occasion and carry them along.
Speaker 2:Um, and because of the state of the organization at the time, I wouldn't say it was. It was being president was the most attractive job, oh yes um, so there was a crack that had to be filled, like in in the organization. Yeah, um, so it's. It's not like there was anybody else putting your hand up to be president, but it just kind of felt like it was something I was supposed to do yeah.
Speaker 1:So you saw the opportunity and you took it and you saw the need for it.
Speaker 2:I saw the need for it. I saw that I can really come in here and take this organization from here to here and you know what.
Speaker 1:To be honest, the only reason why I started I never really would go for coffee events in the past, like coffee is a great organization, like see you, if you check us out, great, you're doing great things in Toronto. It's a great place to network and all of that. But I genuinely started going more because you, you, you, you knew how to organize fun events like you're a professional, but you also know how to have a good time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think the whole concept of the organization, or the ethos of the organization, was really focused on community building yeah leveraging resources and a network to elevate individuals in a community. So we had programs. We have programs that are focused on professional development, financial literacy, but also a lot of networking, and you can have professional networking.
Speaker 2:You have social networking so social networking is where we get a chance to, yeah, take up the student tie and take up the hills well, the close-door hills, yeah and have a good time on the boats in someone's backyard on the rooftop on the rooftop.
Speaker 1:I've been to a few of your rooftop events um but yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:I would say the entire experience was. I felt like it was part of my story yeah I was able to identify that this was something I was supposed to do and, really, and I believed I could do it, so I did it.
Speaker 1:So do you think that some of the things you learned have, um, helped you of position you in a better place in your career? Because even this is part of your career this, everything that you did with coffee, or everything you're still doing with coffee, because I know you, you are no longer the president. You've passed on, passed on the. It's another lovely girl. I met her, rachel. Yeah, I met her. She's very lovely, yeah, um. So do you think that the whole experience has elevated or put your current at different lights for you, whether it's like at work and things like that or do you think it's something that you believe would would in the long run?
Speaker 2:I think it's okay. First of all, I think it's always very clear to state that I didn't take this, take up this role because I was trying to like it wasn't a means to an end to build my profile and do my career. I just thought I could really make a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's the mindset I instilled into the people that I worked with, into my team. Yeah, and it's all volunteer work and it can be like we're not getting paid to do the work. Yeah, we still have to do the work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we still have to do the work, like you were getting paid to do the work and you know what and that's such an important thing to say because I feel like a lot of like. Sometimes you see people who will start these things or who would step into like a not not-for-profit role, and you know it's all. I mean, there's always going to be. I would not deny that it's always going to be a selfish portion to it, but it's always about what they can just gain. So it's very important to understand that even doing these different things is you're doing it because you have the heart for it, and then everything that you learn along the way is just part of the package and one way or the other, it would elevate you.
Speaker 2:I think one way or the other it may be in small steps, it may be in a large step it does elevate you, yeah, but I think to add to your point, if you look at the past presidents like I'm talking about presidents from 1997, 1998, early 2000s a lot of them are retired executives. These are people who are still making strides and I knew that I was going to be part of the greats if I took up this role, because I was already great, I was just like. This just gives me a platform to showcase my greatness. I like that so, and I think those things have people effects. People are watching you and I'm recognized as someone who can lead, who can instill change, who can inspire people and who puts their heart into things right.
Speaker 2:So in terms of how it has helped my career, um, I think people just trust me more. Yeah, you know I can say I've done xyz, my, you've had um in my industry. We have participants in the industry who were, who are still, partners of the organization and sponsors um, so it branded my network, not just for me, but like for people that come out to reach out to me and say, hey, justin, I need help with this. I'm like you know what? Actually, you know someone because I was exposed to this person through this network.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm just happy that I can lean into that network to help others. Yeah, right, and know I feel like those things just play out eventually, and in terms of the long term growth or opportunities that would come from this experience, I think I'm just getting started, like I'm just yet to see how that would play out. Yeah, but just the fact that I did it.
Speaker 1:And I'm really, really proud of of you and a lot of us are proud of you like every time, like, oh, justina, I brag about you. Like, oh, my friend Justina, no, I I brag. Like you don't even understand. I'm just like, ah, do you know my friend Justina? She's a, she's a person. Don't, don't mess with her, she's a boss chick. She would do it, she can do it, she has done it. So like, yeah, and I really like that. I know, by god's grace, there's just so many doors that will open for you. I know that you're a very driven girl. I know that you have all these dreams no, dreams are too big. I I genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, believe in you. I know, are you getting teary?
Speaker 2:no, no, I think I'm just, I'm just you just line that one of my mentors told me, yeah, I mean now he's moved to a different organization. But he said you attract what you're becoming yeah and um. It's made me I think it just made me realize I'm attracting greatness.
Speaker 1:And you, yes, you are, and you continue to.
Speaker 2:I continue to because and I think it's not just. It's not just because I exist, it's because I show up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you show up, you care, I care, you care. I think that's the most important thing you care and I don't want to betray myself. Yeah, yeah, girl, she's dropping. She can't meet hot today. So I'm going to shift the conversation a little, because it was your birthday a few weeks ago and you had an art exhibition. Yes, I did. When did you start?
Speaker 2:painting. Yeah, it's my hidden talent that sometimes I'm like do I do that Really? I started in 2016. It was just one of those things I did to like pass time.
Speaker 1:Oh really, Did you do any classes or you just start being? Do you draw as a kid? Do you like drawing?
Speaker 2:aside, like the regular fine art class I took in high school okay, I did not but I've always been very creative like I used to do, creative writing as a child. Um, I still write, sometimes fiction stories based on my reality. Well, those are the names, so don't bother googling my name for any of my stories.
Speaker 1:You won't find anything, ask me, I can tell you but my art started.
Speaker 2:I started digital painting in 2016 and it was just a way to like release, because back then I was always kind of working, doing my business, doing my full time job.
Speaker 2:I just thought this was the only way I could like relax and just let go, because back then I was always kind of working, doing my business, doing my full-time job. I just thought this was the only way I could relax and just let go. Yeah, it just started a while back and this year was the first time ever that I was able to share physical space with my work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You were there as well, so it was emotional and also it was it was hard to describe, like it was indescribable, like that feeling yeah, like did I actually do this? You did yeah like, not just even the fact that I had the exhibition, is the fact that I created you create the art yeah, I remember the green paints, and that's the one that the green glow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which one is it? The big one or the small one? Because the big one, the big one. Yeah, that's a showstopper, right? Yeah, like every time, that's the one that the green glow? Yeah, which one is it? The big one or the small one?
Speaker 1:because the big one, the big one, yeah, that's a showstopper, right. Yeah, like every time, that's when I think of that, when I remember that night.
Speaker 2:That's what I remember the most yeah, it's definitely one for one for the memory books, yeah, do you do?
Speaker 1:we expect to see more of?
Speaker 2:course, um. I created the. I transferred over the digital prints to canvas because to me that's an asset and. I plan on getting my ROI on the asset but most importantly, get your bag 110%. I feel like that's going to be an end goal, but I think my main goal is to have my work immersed in people's reality, in someone's reality Like in someone's space in an office space. You come and you see it. It leaves a memory.
Speaker 1:The way you remember that painting.
Speaker 2:People walk out of that building and it's like you know what. That was a shitty interview, but wow what?
Speaker 1:a painter, not an interview. I don't know.
Speaker 2:That was the best I could come up with. But, yeah, my plan is to have more exhibitions in the summer, so I've already applied. Um. I actually got invited to exhibit in new york recently, girl. I know it's kind of like what, but I just couldn't do it because of time and logistic reasons and like shipping over and painting. I was like maybe this is just the right time to do that. Um, but I was very honored to be selected, considering I'm an emerging artist. Um. So my plan is just to exhibit more. I have some um digital prints I want to put on canvas.
Speaker 2:So if I can have like 10 um pieces that I'm exhibiting in different spots, yeah, that'll be fantastic oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to see more of your paintings. To be honest, I guess not just with my paintings.
Speaker 2:I want to eventually start designing everyday items like things you use in your daily life, like plates, glassware, okay, okay, okay, kitchen napkins. But every time I travel, I always find myself shopping around. Not shopping around, but sightseeing for like furniture, like interior design, yeah, just to like get inspired. Yeah um, but that's definitely something I want to do down the line, so watch out okay, that's good.
Speaker 1:And you told me this what she's like, scared of what I'm about to say? You also make beats. Oh my god, can you imagine she also make beats? It's all very rudimentary, I've tried.
Speaker 2:I feel like she makes beats and she hides them from the world every music lover probably has made a beat on your phone somewhere. I am a new wait, chill.
Speaker 1:I'm a music lover. I've never even like like I've never made one beat, let's say like melodies I think that's a good way to describe it.
Speaker 2:Um so sometimes like I can make melody on my phone like I could like I could be, like I can pick up a line and like I could like start recording on my phone.
Speaker 1:I feel like you know what I feel like. That's so cool because for me, when I listen to music, I also listen. I love music and I love lyrics because I do like to write as well. Um, but I also listen to the background. I listen to the instruments in the background and it adds a lot for me. But every time I've tried to like, I'll write a lovely like. There's some things I've written I'm like, oh my god, this could be a song, but ask me how I can't make it. I, I really don't. I feel like I I'm just, I wish I had that talent to just.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wish I had the talent to like write my songs into it and I just come up with a line and then like I hum it and like record it or maybe we should work together because I can write a whole song I have. It's a plane. I bring this up because recently I was trying to declutter my phone and I was just going through all the audios I recorded oh this is actually good.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, I could listen to that yeah, but yeah it's um, like I said, I'm a creative like in my heart and I think that's why I decided to stay in the strategy space and transformation space, because you know, when you're working in business and you're working in financial, in the financial service industry, all those strictures you work within and the creativity is within bounds. I think that's a good way to describe it.
Speaker 1:It is in the business world.
Speaker 2:It is, but I think to win in the business world you have to be creative, right you?
Speaker 1:have to define those gray areas.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad that I found a profession that taps into my Creating.
Speaker 1:The skills that come natural to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, now you need. You need a little bit of drink for the next set of questions, so please go ahead. So we live in toronto and dating in this city. How is it going? Dating in toronto is a madhouse. I feel like dating everywhere is a madhouse I feel like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I feel weak, we I don't actually dating in toronto is interesting, to say the least, and I think one of the things I really like about you, justina, is justina. First of all, she knows how to move on, oh yeah. But when she meets a man, this babe is like, genuinely like no, I have a real connection with this guy, yeah, I think this is the one. But once he messes up, she knows how to like. She's like I'm done, I'm not doing this anymore. It's not like she doesn't give people grace she does. But when she's sure that, okay, this person is not about their business with her, she just moves on, which is something I really respect. That the next time she meets the next person, she still has that heart and she's like oh my God, this is gonna work, there's a good potential that this would work.
Speaker 1:I don't you know me like once. I'm like I'm tired, I need a break. I will. I'm tired, I need a break. I can take a month or two off, or three months. I'm like I'm not dating, I don't want to talk to anybody, I need some time to be positive again.
Speaker 2:How do you do that? Great question.
Speaker 1:How do you stay positive with all the things that happen in the city?
Speaker 2:Okay. So to answer your first question how is dating in Toronto? Yeah, first question how is dating in toronto? Yeah, um, I think, from my experience and I I'm not speaking from a general term, just letting you guys know um, I would say it is. It is. It's hard to find people who are, who want to share the same values as me I would say, um, so wait, um, in terms of like, I think maybe it's just our generation I don't know what it is, or maybe it's a pool of people where I'm engaging, I don't know, but yeah yeah, to figure that one out.
Speaker 2:But I would say that to me it's more like people don't really have any clear ideas of what they're looking for when they start dating. Um, or some of them think they do, but they don't. Their intention doesn't match their behavior right, actually that's a big one.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, yeah, that's. I think that's a really big one, where people say one thing oh yes, I, I, I want a smart, I like to take the lead XYZ. And then, when time comes for them to do so-and-so, they don't or they're not. And you know me, like me. When somebody starts to show that, I'm just like, well, he's not that into me, he's okay, I carry my bags and I leave.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that's wisdom.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Is it wisdom, or is it just me not wanting to get embarrassed?
Speaker 2:it's not wanting to get embarrassed. Wisdom in my opinion. Um, I think the second just to build on that point and to answer your second question is how do I stay open with, yeah, with every new connection? Yeah, I think I'm kind of like a romantic, like okay, guys, I write I am too, though. Okay, first of all, I write a dabbling creative writing.
Speaker 2:So you know, sometimes I'll be building castles in the sky, okay. But luckily I'm also a strategist and you know I would like to have good intuition. Yeah, I've learned to just listen to my first thoughts, and usually your first thoughts you listen to your gods, right, gods.
Speaker 2:And you know, megan the stallion said should I listen to my first mind? You know, and you know, it's so true, like there's so many times I didn't and I regretted it, but um, there's, I think, someone like me. I know what I'm looking for, I know who I am, I know who I want to be, who I'm becoming yes and then you're sure of yourself, very assertive. I've always had that vision. My dad always tells me I'm someone who knows my destination.
Speaker 1:So when I engage with sorry, that's very rich coming from you, like from a father right like.
Speaker 2:I always just, I know where I'm heading and that's why I make choices to get me there. Yeah, um. So when I encounter people, scenarios that don't feel like it's aligned to my purpose or the purpose that the path that god has created for me, I just yeah, it's like this is not like no hard feelings but like how do you stay posse for the next guy that comes, because, um, like you have such a light heart, like it's like oh, yeah, yeah, I mean like it's actually so cute. It's like I'm like why?
Speaker 2:you don't. I think you shouldn't be closed up to the idea of what things could be fair and but you should also be open to the idea of it might not be what you expect it to be and leave true. I think it's a dichotomy of thought you have to be able to balance with perspective. Where I'm happy, I'm excited about a potential new opportunity. If the opportunity goes bust, too bad, too sad, I'm gonna move on something else upon my lap. That's what I was. It always falls on my lap. It does always. I don't have a scarcity mindset.
Speaker 2:I know I can always get what I want if I need it, but um yeah but, yeah, like I think I just. I just try to stay open because, at the end of the day, you want to give people room to be themselves. Yeah, um, I don't want a scenario where it didn't work out because, oh, I wasn't open. I give them space to get to know me. I want to say I did my best, yes, and in process of doing my best and existing and bringing my best self forward, I was able to identify that this is not the best situation for me or the other person was able to identify that maybe I'm not the best person for them.
Speaker 2:It's not just me it goes both ways. I think that's why I just approach things that way. I get excited about I meet someone that I like. I think we share the same values.
Speaker 1:I'm going to address it with excitement and positivity and also realism, to make sure that I'm not living in a delusional land, yeah, um, but yeah like, just try to honestly keep that peace of mind yeah, I'm stressing about something that hasn't happened yet, but yeah, when you say that there's no potential, there's just like a bag, you just kind of just like well I mean it is exhausting sometimes to go through the rigamarole of making someone new and then figuring out yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I think for me, one of the things that stresses me out the most with dating is I get exhausted, like genuinely, mentally, physically, I get exhausted. So you meet a new man or, yeah, you meet a new man you eat, you know it takes you out. Whatever you go on dates, I'm getting to know you, I'm getting excited and then two, three months after you're just like this is not gonna work. I don't like.
Speaker 1:I find it really exhausting because I'm like so that's me again wishing or thinking, oh, this is maybe this could mean something and it's not like I'm sitting there, I'm not like I move on, like same with you, like I know how to, like it's not working, I'm done, I've moved on. Yeah, but I think it's the process for me, is the process of doing that all over again that stresses me. Like I just get so drained.
Speaker 1:Wash cycles like is it gonna end, yes, and aside from that, it's also like every time I try again, like I'm trying again, it's exhausting. I'm bringing a new person into my space and I think that probably um um plays a part, because I'm quite introverted, even though people that I met in Toronto, everybody I've met post-2018, it's hard for them to believe this, but I'm quite introverted. So I think it's also that I'm struggling with. I'm bringing it into my space and then in that two, three months mark is where you're like that's for me, that's where, that's where people start to open up eventually, you know, like you start to open up, right you open up and then I'm like, oh my god, I'm letting a person in into my space, you're getting to know about me, even on a deeper level, and I have to do that again and it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:I don't want all these random men knowing all about my experience, so that's, I think that's the process of that is what stresses me out.
Speaker 2:I think it's also the need to be strategic on who you let in and when you let in and how you let that in.
Speaker 1:I feel like I are.
Speaker 2:You are, yeah, I get it, but I think it's like an interview, like think about it fair how many interviews you go through my sister before you got your job. You know I can't tell you how many exactly so, but when you're in the interview process, I'll go back to the interview thing.
Speaker 1:You know like I think there was a year, like every year, but it was a time I was doing after my master's. I did so many interviews, yeah, and multiple rounds, and I think I wrote it down one day. It's like maybe like 12, at least 12 companies, and this is not. This is like more one, two, three interviews. I'm just like my god, just give me a note, like leave me alone, like give me an offer that makes sense, that makes sense because you can get an offer and just like I don't want that right, exactly, but yeah, anyways, you keep on interviewing as you find.
Speaker 1:I don't have a choice.
Speaker 2:Exactly Sometimes you take a break and sometimes you keep on like that's fair.
Speaker 1:I think that's how I see dating.
Speaker 2:It's like how do I detach?
Speaker 1:Because I'm like it could be the next guy that's going to give me my offer work, like with with companies, like even from university days, my mindset has had always been somebody's going to, I don't need to work for 10 people at a time. Somebody's going to say, yes, I don't feel that. I think with emotions is different, because with work it's I don't know. There's a. I guess I feel like I try my best to bring myself to work and I think I'm as authentic as I can be. But to be honest, and if we're girls, guys, if you're being honest, I don't think it's smart, if you don't own the company or you don't own the co-owners or whatever, to bring your 100% every day to work.
Speaker 1:It would not work In my opinion. It would not work. You can bring your A like you can't bring your. You can bring your a game, you can bring your authentic self, but I'm not gonna be. I don't want work people to know that when I go out, I want to get down and dance the way I want to dance like. I don't want work people to know certain things about me. Do you get what I mean? So, but like with dating, I want. I think maybe that's it, because for me I like that very deep connection who doesn't like.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, but I want you.
Speaker 1:I want you to know every no, like you don't have to know, but like eventually I would like my man to know. Like you know, I want you to see everything, know what it is, and I want to know and see what it is yeah, do you get what I mean you're saying?
Speaker 2:and just trying to extrapolate on your point and triangulate to the idea of it being an interview? It is. I think you have to be cautious and tactical about what you're sharing. Of course, of course, um, but you need to like, like I said, you always need to know you can always walk away if it's not working.
Speaker 2:For you and I think that sometimes people try so hard to make things work when it's not working, like trying to fit the square into a circle like it might fit for like the first five minutes and it pops out, you know like and I don't know how many times it needs to pop up for you to realize you need to pop out.
Speaker 1:You need to pop out, but um, yeah, I was thinking, not very keep going, but I am no pun.
Speaker 2:Well, my point, my point here is um so immature. My point here is that I'm so immature. My point here is that dating in Toronto or any cities. I think you just can't like. You have to understand the different. What is your goal at different stages of getting to know?
Speaker 1:someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like, just like you said, it's like you just don't want so many people to know a lot about you and like who you are.
Speaker 1:I don't even want so many. I don't want everybody and like who you are, I don't even want so many, I don't want everybody, like you know, and I I'm not, I don't dare to be fair. It's not like I'm I'm not. I don't be dating. Yeah, I actively did, but I don't date a lot of like. I did a few, one person at a time. But it I can talk to multiple people, yeah, like I'm not, but exclusively dating just like. Yeah, that's different, but if I'm talking to someone, we're not, you're not my man I can't claim you, you can't claim me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, basically, yeah, so in the on the.
Speaker 1:In that case, I'm yes, I'm talking to other people. However, there will be one person that I'm really, really entertaining. There's always one person your heart it's. It's a truth there's. If it's what? If it's more than one, maybe two, I don't think my, my mind is not even mine. It's just also time, like you're a very busy woman, I'm a very busy woman. I just don't have the time, genuinely speaking, to entertain. I don't have the time, I don't have the energy. So I feel like, so now I'm not even talking about you're talking or texting different people, or different people are texting you. I think it's like when you know you focus on that one person and he's getting to know you, you're getting to know him. Obviously, people don't earn the right to know certain things about you until after a certain time, maybe, like certain things that I would not reveal until you feel more comfortable.
Speaker 1:Oh we become a, an item? Yeah, right, but I think it's like the, you know, in my head, like you too, I'm a dreamer. But in my own head I've imagined okay, we're going to get to x, you know x. And then, when we get to that point, we're going to know x, we're going to know y. And when we get to that, like you know, I've started to like I'm seeing progress and all of a sudden all of that crashes and all of that. So, and that's painful, but also because I'm not some, I'm no longer growth, growth. I'm no longer a girl that stays where I don't think it works. I'm no longer that person. Once I see that, once a man is doing left right, I'm out. I no longer wait, I don't fight, I just it's okay, it's good, I carry myself out of this, do?
Speaker 2:you get what I mean. I think the final thought I would put forward on this question would be you have today to explore yourself and know what you want and what you don't want. I think you have to present yourself in a way that feels comfortable to you. What I choose to share in three months might be different from what you feel comfortable sharing fair, and you have to know that you're putting yourself out there and what if we don't want to anymore?
Speaker 1:if you don't, and then you move on like no, like I just want to know I think.
Speaker 2:I think it takes a lot of confidence and boldness to live in your truth, even when you're not sure if things are not going to work out but that's, true and that's just how I do it, like that's why I leave, because I'm like, every time I meet someone I know, like this is how I'm going to consistently show up, because that's just who I am. Yeah, and it's not. Regardless of how things play out, I'm still going to be this person 110 percent and, yes, that's true, but that's it.
Speaker 1:But let's go back to daydreaming my ideal world. I'll just be in my house, someone will just knock and you're like Duke Abby. No, I'll see him in a dream. Okay, this is go. Let me tell you the ideal situation. All of you stay with me I hope I haven't lost anybody so like. I'll sleep at night and I'll have this dream, very clear dream, dream very, very clear dreams, dream very, very clear. I'll see this man, I'll see the way everything will play out and the next day I'll just step out and the first person I see is this man and he comes up to me and then we know we just start talking, like casually, just talking, and that's it. And then he gets it and then we go on dates and that's it like, literally, I've seen him. It may even I will just open my door one day and he's just there. It's like special delivery from god.
Speaker 2:You know, god said you might need a lover yeah, let me ask you one more question.
Speaker 1:One more question. What else you have on your list? So, girl, what's your ideal man? What's your ideal man like ugh?
Speaker 2:I don't know my ideal man. So like if I had a machine that I can calibrate to create my perfect man. What would that person look like and what would the characteristics of the person?
Speaker 1:we can do two things. You can tell us what the person could look like, and then you can also tell us traits you're looking for I think, like when it comes to physical form, I'm not too like peculiar about that.
Speaker 1:I think I'm serious, like I'm quite open, like I'm more like it's love blind, not entirely, because if you're an asshole I'm not interested okay, no, but like, like the physical whatever doesn't really matter to you, yeah, like I said, I'm not interested, okay, no, but like, like the fiscal, the fiscal whatever doesn't really matter to you, yeah, like I said I'm looking for like a deep bond.
Speaker 2:I think if I'm like attracted to you, like I'm saying I'm not really um, I wouldn't say I have a type physically per se I didn't know that because I'm looking back on my uh, my, my resume. Yeah, I can see I'm someone who's adaptable and flexible.
Speaker 1:I love that word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bring back the corporate lingo I try, you know, attaining those milestones in relationship also important um, but in terms of, I think I really focus on traits and um, characteristics and behavior, like what I think I need somebody who's honest with themselves and can reflect. I think it's so important because sometimes it's so hard, like the ego gets in the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, I need someone who has a history of taking accountability for their lives. I need someone who has a history of development, like growth, with or without me. You're fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I need someone who believes in God Very important and is connected to God and has a reverence for God. I think if you fear God, chances are you'll be making crazy decisions that would disrupt your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I need someone who has a good relationship with your family. That's a big thing a relationship with your family and your friends, I think someone who's also not a pushover. I don't like someone who's a pushover. I'm not a pushover, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't like that either.
Speaker 2:Nobody puts baby in a corner. I want someone who's also like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't want to be fighting over, I don't want to always, always be the one with the big mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I need a good balance. I think I need someone who has a flow of creativity. I feel like you would be spontaneous and interesting. You can surprise me and we can share hobbies and creative hobbies and design things together.
Speaker 2:I love that. Okay, I see you. I love it, let's go. What else ideally can I do, man? Um just have like ambition and like a vision for themselves. Yeah, I think that's a big one, um, someone who's comfortable feeling your emotions and expressing your emotions, so emotionally intelligent man and that is not scared to be expressive exactly not scared to be expressive, not scared to, you know, learn how to do things just because I like them, you know, and vice versa.
Speaker 2:Obviously I'm gonna yeah, it might not be my thing, but I could like it could be my thing because it's your thing, you know what I'm saying. I like that and I'm not gonna grumble about it, I'm just gonna like you're gonna learn, I going to learn, I'm going to learn. I'm going to have a good time learning. Yeah, because like it's your thing.
Speaker 1:Because you're seeing them happy, it's like, okay, it's something we can share together. You're like, oh my god, it's happy about this though.
Speaker 2:Hey, I might try them, I know like.
Speaker 1:I don't know like sustain what?
Speaker 2:do you mean sustain yourself like are you the air that we breathe? No, that's only god. I think more of um. If you look at sustenance, it could be um physically, so making sure you're in good shape, okay, your lifestyle, your habits, what you eat yeah, really, that's sustenance. Even spiritual sustenance is a thing.
Speaker 1:You know what I get? I didn't understand, but now I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an umbrella term for I think it's self-regulation.
Speaker 1:That's a good way to describe it Discipline.
Speaker 2:I think it's self-regulation that's a good way to describe it. Discipline, discipline yeah, I think. Ideally, those are the traits and characteristics I'm looking for in a partner. You know what's so interesting? It's possible that I could meet someone and they have a bit of everything, but not like everything.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, I don't feel like it's possible, for it's not impossible to find a man. Everything that you said. I just don't think. I don't. One thing that is from that I know is nobody's perfect, so there's not going to be something that there's going to be. You know how they say the 80-20 rule, so there's probably there may be maybe 10% that are like oof, I mean like, if I look at it, have you ever heard of Harvey circles?
Speaker 2:no so what's that so um, when you're creating a deck? I'm sorry guys yeah, that's fine. You're creating a deck and you want to show the status of readiness of like an item or like a factor put a sticker on it. I like a sticker like on Harvey cycle could be like a full circle, could be a half quarter oh, is that all you guys use at your company? It's used up is used in your company. This isn't a console.
Speaker 1:No, we use, we use um I, we, I use stickies like we have like different, like we have um deck updates stickies. So you just put yeah, I think it's just, it's just one of those. Um, okay, I've never heard about it.
Speaker 2:It's like it's a means of storytelling. I think that's a good way to describe it. I'll send you a link but the idea is that I could have a list.
Speaker 2:You might say it is like the headline could be like my ideal partner and I could have a list of all those things I've mentioned. Yeah, and it's possible I could meet someone as everyone on their list. But to have the cycle could like maybe one of them would be like full circle, which means like they have a hundred percent of this and like it's consistent, or like some of it would be like half circle because they don't have like one quarter of the circle, because they barely have that right and even the item or the characteristic that's a hundred percent complete.
Speaker 2:Sometimes maybe it's like 80 and not like 70 complete. Yeah, so I think it's just being like open to the fact that everything I've listed here might not always manifest or be apparent at different stages in the relationship, and that's fair and also, like I'm just thinking fundamentals to be there.
Speaker 1:As long as that's what I was gonna say as long as your deal breakers are, they, they, they don't. They're not breaking your deal breakers. I don't know, I'll say it, but you know what I mean. Like it's, your deal breakers are not tampered with or they're they are checked. Yeah, am I saying the right way? Yeah, I think. Then.
Speaker 2:Then you should be fine, yeah and I hope you know you heard it.
Speaker 1:Assert. You heard it here first Justina's ideal man.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, Someone's going to hold me to this like five years, but you said you wanted this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what? We are not trees. Even trees can get whatever. Honestly, I feel like we evolve.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I think those characteristics are like my deep breakers.
Speaker 1:I think those characteristics they're like my deep workers, like I think fundamentally.
Speaker 2:I need that to feel secure and like secure my decision to be with this person to get me to my destination.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's important and that's fine, and you'll find that man for you, by God's grace, he's gonna. He's there, he's there. So, wherever you are, that man, show up, show up, do what you need to do, be a leader and come and get your girl. Okay, period, period. So, um, justina, thank you so much. Welcome for joining my podcast. I'm really happy to have you here. And um, where welcome and where can people find you? Do you want people to find you?
Speaker 2:first of all, I mean, yeah, I mean find my, maybe my artwork. So I go by NX X as in x-ray O-N-P-R-O-1-9 on Instagram. That name has no meaning, it's just Say it again it's N-X-O-N-P-R-O-1 Instagram. That name has no meaning, it's just say it again. It's nxonpro19, um to look at my, some of my creative pieces. And you know, shop around. If you want to um or like, refer to a friend. If you want um, you'll find me on Instagram.
Speaker 2:It's justinaiko, because I am my brand yeah and if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn to have a coffee chat, sure you can connect with me. I always love meeting new people, adding people to my professional network, but yeah that's it for now.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. It was really nice to have you here. I think we had a great conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did cheers to and congrats on your podcast. Thank you girl hopefully I'll be here in like a year from now you're supposed to drink that? It's bad luck.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yikes no, we have to do it again, though, because now you, you.
