What You See is What You Grow

What changes when leaders begin with what is strong instead of what is wrong? 

In this episode, Don reflects on the ways a deficit mindset can quietly shape how we see ourselves, our teams, and the work we are called to grow. 

He is joined by Susan Bates, a board and civic leader, relationship-centered facilitator, and longtime community builder, for a conversation about listening, leadership, data, family, community, and the discipline of seeing what people are already bringing. 

Together, they explore how leaders can build from strength, trust what is emerging, and create the conditions for people and communities to grow. 

To learn more about Don's work, upcoming offerings, and leadership resources, visit carpentercompanyconsulting.com

 If something in today’s episode spoke to you, I hope you’ll subscribe and continue the journey with me — because leadership begins within. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome to Meditations on Leadership. I'm Don Carpenter. Let me ask you: what happens when the first thing we see in people is what they're missing? And what changes when we begin instead with what people are already bringing? Those questions bring us into one of the quiet but powerful responsibilities of leadership. And that's learning to pay attention to what we are choosing to see. Because what we focus on grows. Sometimes leadership means naming what needs to change. Sometimes it means having the hard conversation. And sometimes it means stepping back long enough to notice the strength, capacity, and possibility that we're already in the room. Exploring leadership tensions like these is at the heart of this podcast. Each week begins with a meditation, followed by a personal reflection, and then a conversation with a guest whose lived experience helps bring this theme to life, all in the service of the inner formation leadership asks of us. And today I get to explore all of this with my guest, Susan Bates. Susan is one of those who's is a person whose leadership has never fit neatly into one box. And I think that's part of what makes her so compelling. She began her professional life with a background in physics, mechanical engineering, and eventually working as a member of the technical staff at Bell Telephone Labs. Over time, though, her path moved from science and technology into organizing, board leadership, land conservation, education, civil liberties, community building, and the deeper work of listening and making space for others. I first met Susan about 20 years ago when she approached me with a question that would go on to shape my work in ways I could have never imagined at the time. She wondered how Trekkers, an organization I was running at the time, might use social emotional developmental data to better understand and support the young people we had in our program. That conversation led to a donation from Susan and her husband Richard that funded a pilot partnership with an organization called Partners in Education and Resiliency out of Harvard Medical School and McLean Teaching Hospital. What began as a pilot became a two-decade partnership that transformed how Trekkers and eventually many other usurping organizations around our state thought about data, innovation, strategy, and youth development. Since then, Susan has continued to lead in ways that are thoughtful, relational, and deeply rooted in community. She has served on and chaired nonprofit boards, helped lead a library capital campaign, served as president of the ACLU of Maine, and currently chairs the board of the Maine Math and Science Alliance. Today, through her work with Dragon Heart volunteers at St. George School and her facilitation of women leadership circles, Susan continues to practice a kind of leadership that listens carefully, adapts wisely, and trusts that people and communities grow best when they are given both structure and space. Susan, thank you for joining me on Meditations on Leadership. Welcome. Wow. Thank you, Don. It's a wonderful gift to be seen. Oh, that's awesome. Well, thank you. You're so welcome. I'm so glad you're here. And uh coming off our conversation with uh Ruth, who I know uh you work closely with at the Maiden uh Math and Science Alliance. Um she spoke so highly of you. It was uh it was a wonderful thing to hear and listen to, knowing you uh from a little bit from afar, but also personally. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, before we jump into our conversation, let me share Meditation 22 from my forthcoming book. And it's titled, What You See is What You Grow. And it's a theme Susan picked for our conversation today. The quote I wrote down in the journal said this from an unknown source. Don't focus on what people are missing. Focus on what they're bringing. Don't focus on what people are missing, focus on what they're bringing. This quote made me pause because it names one of the quietest and most powerful choices leaders make. What do we choose to see first? When we talk about building strong teams, improving staff performance, or shaping organizational culture, most of us begin with what is missing, what someone lacks, what they are not doing, where they are falling short. That is the default setting in many institutions, a deficit mindset, the belief, spoken or unspoken, that people are insufficient before we have taken the time to see them and taken a full account. Over time, when this happens, people feel it. They stop risking, offering, and bringing their full selves into the room because they sense they are being evaluated more than they are being seen. For a long time, I wondered why scarcity had such a strong hold on so many systems. Then one day in college, I attended a lecture where the speaker held up a glass of water and asked the familiar question Is this glass half full or half empty? That day, though, the question landed a bit differently. I realized that how we see the glass is not really about the glass, it's about us. If I see myself as half empty, if I am focused on what I lack, I will likely start there with other people too. I will hear, I will lead from fear, inadequacy, and the need to correct, fix, or control. And here's the truth a leader at conflict with their own inadequacy will often see inadequacy everywhere. Not because it's always there, but because it is the lens they have learned to trust. But if I can begin to see myself as half full, if I can start from strength and value, then I can lead from possibility, partnership, belief, and even abundance. The difference is profound. It is the difference between control and trust, burnout and sustainability, an organization that just survives and one that grows. And I think that's what Wayne Dyer meant when he said when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. And I've seen it over and over again. The moment you shift your lens from what's missing to what's present, the person you're looking at changes because you have changed. This does not mean we avoid hard conversations or ignore patterns that need attention. Starting with strength does not mean pretending that weakness is not there. It means refusing to let weakness and challenge be the whole story. It means asking, what is already here? What strength is already in the room? What capacity is waiting to be called forward? Because people grow differently when they feel seen before they feel judged. So the next time you're evaluating a team member, reflecting on a culture, or even judging yourself, ask, am I starting with what is missing? Or am I starting with what is already present? Because again, what you focus on grows. In the end, leadership is not only about what we correct, it is about what we call forward. And what we choose to see in people may become the very thing they begin to see in themselves. So I want to offer a quick time, real reflection here. And there was an early chapter in my tenure, probably six, seven years into leading the organization, when I was caught in what I could only describe now as a deficit mindset doom loop. You know, I just came to this place where I was feeling like there was just never enough. Never enough time, never enough energy, never enough sleep, not enough staff capacity, not enough resources, and more than anything, not enough money. I kept telling myself that if we could just find the right funder, the right strategy, or get the right people around the table, then the organization could finally grow into what it was meant to become. But over time I began to realize something that was both humbling and kind of hard to admit. The problem was not the strategy, it was not the people, it was not finding the funders. The problem was the lens I was looking through. I come to believe there was not enough, and because of that, I led as if there would never be enough. And if I'm honest, I think some of that came from the fact that I was still wrestling with whether I was enough. Did I have the right skill set? Was I right? Was I the right person to lead the organization? Was I an imposter? The inner scarcity shaped the way I saw everything around me. And without realizing it, I was asking other people to believe in a future, I was not fully believing in myself. But when I began to change the way I looked at myself, and then the way I looked at the work, the work began to change. And that's when things began to take off up and to the right. Fundraising changed, relationships changed, possibility returned, and the organization finally became sustainable. Not because everything suddenly became easy, but because I stopped leading from lack and started leading from the abundance that I that was already there around me, and stopped believing that there was never enough. And truly, it has changed everything. Susan, as you listen to the meditation and this reflection, what resonated with you, what stirred in you, what stayed with you? How long do we have done?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Like scratch a page and a half of notes, just like yes, yes. Thank you for that. Um, one of the reflections I had as I was thinking about our conversation coming up is that we measure what we value or we value what we can measure. And I think what's so hard is that you can't measure relationships, you can't measure trust, you can't measure possibility. And so to get that inner inner trust, inner confidence that no, I know this is right, this is my path, this is where the organization's going. So that speaks to what you said is how much changed for me when I realized I was enough. That I would be honest about who I was, and that's how I would show up. And if that was the right fit, let's go. And if it's not, let's not. And um I was thinking one of the most useful things I've carried with me for I guess it's been 15 years ago or so, I did the strength finders with a large room of people for a nonprofit. And I realized what my strengths were, and I also realized that the person sitting across from me had totally different strengths, but they were strengths. And one example for me, the deficit mindset or the abundance is I like to do a lot of different things, and my desk reflects that. I have poetry and journals and spreadsheets, and and that could be seen as a negative. Oh, Susan can't stay with one thing. But in fact, I found out that that was a strength. So that really helped me say, okay, I'm enough. And the other thing I reflected on that you kept touching on is you, with your reflection, was the two probably points of leadership. One of the two that I'm most proud of was I had a partner with which I could be totally vulnerable. One was um co-leading the capital campaign to build our community library, and I worked with a fundraising consultant, Patricia Hubbard, and we would be on the phone every morning at 8 a.m. And it was like I, you know, I'd be sitting on the bench in a huddle, like, oh, I can't do this, and she'd pat me on the back, go out and do it again, Susan. And but she saw me for who I was. The second case was when I became president of the board of the ACLU of Maine just nine days after President Trump was sworn in in 2017. And the executive director there, Alison B. A. And I were on the phone every morning at 8 a.m. And I was just on the phone with her this morning. She's remained a very close friend, but someone with whom I could be vulnerable and I knew saw me. So, yes, it was that that helped my lens to be able to see an organization that was enough and a continual challenge to work with teams and see that abundance mindset of what are you bringing?

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

And I said yes to your invitation when I realized that my latest leadership, which was going to our superintendent Mike Felton three years ago and saying, How about we start a volunteer program, which became Dragonheart Volunteers, named because I had just finished reading Bell Hook's All About Love. And I said, Surely in our name, we need some love. And we said, Dragonhearts, because we're the St. George Dragons. So, but as it developed, I had a very clear idea about what everything should look like and everybody should line up in columns. And boy, I met volunteers with ideas and I learned to just let go and say go. And so we now have 12 or volunteers that each of them shows up in very, very different ways. And still at my age of 70, I learning to let go and let them do it. And it's really been a continual growth experience for me to manage that.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Well, I I really appreciate um where you started with all this, and because I I wanted to ask you to kind of break this up a tiny bit into, and you've already hit on it, so we'll move through it, I'm sure, pretty quickly. But what this idea of seeing first some strength in ourselves and some questions about that, and then the idea of like seeing strength in those closest to us, which can sometimes be hard, and then kind of seeing strength in those we lead in, if we have time, maybe some strength in the community. And so I wanted to start with this. When you look back over your own journey, I mean, it's pretty awesome. I mean, from physics and engineering to board leadership to civil liberties to education and community work. Were there moments when you had to learn to see strengths in yourself that you had not fully recognized before you took on these leadership positions?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Oh, when you you referred to imposter. Oh my gosh. I imposter syndrome, uh, you know, I I totally raised my hand with that and ask the question again, please.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Well, I'm just uh in terms of when you were in these positions and you've had just such a uh diverse, each one of them is so diverse from the next in some ways. I'm just curious about how did you not let maybe in in the case of imposter syndrome impact your ability to lead from a place of seeing strength all around you? Because if my contention is right or correct, that the lens that we see ourselves tends to be the lens that we see in others that we're leading. And therefore, when you're in a situation where you might feel a little bit of that, like I lack some skills here, just curious, like that tension or that wrestling around. Like, how how did you handle that? What did you do? Did how did you get some perspective on it?

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I suppose even though I would feel like an imposter, maybe the successes started to accumulate and I could look back and have that perspective of, oh, you know, I it's okay. And then a lot of it I think goes to my husband of 40 plus years, Richard, who would say, No, no, no, Susan, you did this. And then at least in the last 10 years, I know one of the themes I really appreciate your diving into is the personal growth, how that then goes to the leadership growth and they go hand in hand. And it's learning to trust my gut and my intuition, whatever that feels like for anyone else. And just saying, I I see a need or I see a situation, and I'm gonna trust what I'm seeing, and then try to step in and address it, help, serve.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Yeah, so how um this gut, this intuition. Um, there's been a lot of folks that uh have mentioned this um over the course of the last few months of do hosting the podcast. And how did you learn to not question it? Like what was it, was there the successes that you're talking about, but also was there mistakes that refined your intuition in your gut? Like what what how did you just say, like, this is it, this is my gut, I can filter everything through there. Can you say a little bit more about it?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

So it was more when I ignored my gut. When when I would be in a situation in a relationship and someone would be saying something, and I think, this isn't right. But I would say, but who am I? And then I would think in hindsight, oh gosh, if only I had a lot of it around conflict, which does not come naturally to me at all. And is probably as I look at, I'll call them learning opportunities, but they're really also mistakes of trying to keep an employee on when I was um executive director of an organization and just wasting so many weeks trying to make something work that I knew really couldn't work. And it would have been kinder for everybody just to say no, and knowing when to say goodbye, when to turn up to just to leave an organization, to say this board isn't the right fit.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah. So I had mentioned in the um the meditation that this idea of what you see is what you grow, and that starting with what is people bringing rather than what they're missing. And I mentioned like it's not meant to over uh look some of the maybe position alignment and the skill set that might not be there and holding that accountable to level up the person maybe in that position. But at the same time, it sounds like from your earlier comments that relationships are something that you value incredibly, and I know that I have struggled over the years in that same space of like, I really care, I want to develop leadership, and at the same time, there are writings on the wall or my own gut that's telling me this person may not be working out and I've got to do something about it. And am I going from a place of deficit mindset and only looking at that? And uh, or is this really the right thing? And so, do you have any wisdom on this? Uh, because it's a it's I think it's a thing that many relationship centered leaders struggle with. You know, uh, how do we create accountability and responsibility and clear boundaries? And at the same time, uh have incredible compassion, understanding, empathy, meeting people where they are and seeing what is strong before we focus on what's wrong.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

I don't have wisdom because one of the tenets that I try to live by that I learned through this facilitation program I start I was trained in about five years ago is that wisdom can't be imparted, it can only be revealed. And so, no, I won't I won't have wisdom. I though, and yet the word we haven't introduced into the conversation yet is expectations.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

And so I think in an organization, to be clear about what expectations are, or in a family, I mean, this also comes up for me having four wonderful, marvelous adult children and learning that they have to walk their own path. That you know, they have to learn these things themselves. And so just trying to hold space for them, for people on a team I'm part of in a community is holding space, and then back to seeing people. So make sure that when we're sitting across from somebody, to your point, Don, we're paying attention to who they really are and naming it. And um, you know, there's there's very wise people out there. I can't remember the name of the person that with conflict and the grid of how you show up, but trying to exist in whatever that quartile is, that quadrant of um seeing clearly and yet also not shying away. So that's a roundabout way of sort of really probably not answering the question, but that's what I've got right now.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Well, I like what you said there that wisdom can't be imparted, it can only be revealed. And I'm curious about one of the things I mentioned is this idea that um we are calling forth the gifts inside people before we're of course correcting them on things that they're doing wrong. That part of this process is is helping people in as we lead as we attempt to be in a leadership position where we're actually leading people, that we're finding ways to call people forth into their own strength. And as a mom, kind of looking at at the strengths within your own children, were there times where you could see this incredible gift, this incredible spirit, this incredible strength in one of your kids and they hadn't seen it yet. And if so, like what did you do to help them begin to say, hey, I want to be a mirror for this? Not you want to use that language, but I want to call this forth. I want to provide opportunity for them to really see this incredible gift within themselves so that they don't come to a place where they see the glass is half empty.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Um, yesterday. And sometimes via text and sometimes on a phone call. And it's but it's really just listening.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

And again, sort of relying on this uh training and facilitation and then holding circles with it's the same thing, just by speaking things out loud and not getting shut down and being able to say, I love you, which which I do with my children, I don't do in the circles, but the world doesn't cave in. It's not a catastrophe, and it's okay if you've said something out loud. And I think you know, so much can live in shame, which is dark and unspoken. And once we can give it some light, it's you know, it's okay. So I think.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Well, you do the the group, I might not get it right, but Nishu, Nushu, yeah. So so this is a process, if I understand it correctly, is kind of building a cohort of women who are in in leadership, executive directors or executive leaders of some sort, and are coming together on a relatively consistent basis as you facilitate it. How much of this concept of helping this group of leaders create space for them to become even more stronger in their own intuition and their own gut? How much is that a theme?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I think it's the total theme. It's the the circle. We have very clear guidelines, confidentiality, don't apologize for emotions coming up. Um, know that what you say matters, and there's a host of guidelines. And my job as facilitator is just to hold that space. There's no talking across the circle. I offer a prompt, there's time for reflection, and then we go around the virtual, whatever. I also can do I do them in person now as well with just with women, so that speaking things out loud and then people thinking, oh gosh, that's how I feel. And I've said it out loud, and it's okay, and other people are feeling the same. When I first began this training and during the pandemic in fall of 2020, my goal was to do it for nonprofit leaders because I know how lonely that space is as an executive director, having been one and now being on board. And um, it was wonderful to hear Ruth's reflections on the previous podcast. That again, you know, nothing's imparted, but to know that people aren't alone, that you look at these dynamite, fantastic women just really just going out there and doing the hard work with the same doubts. And in fact, when I started, I used to ask fairly there would be a theme and there would be really sort of specific prompts, and we might talk about boundaries or values. And now I find a poem or two. And because there's so the space is so well established and there's so much trust that I don't try to anticipate what might need to be discussed, but through the words of Mary Oliver or some other poets, they can will read the poem and then they'll pick out a line and they'll go with it wherever they are. And a lot of times they're not talking about work most of the time, but it's just that experience of being seen and being vulnerable that I think then gives them what they need to go back out and do what they do.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, you articulated that well because it totally aligns with what Ruth was talking about in my last episode, in terms of her how much she took from that time and not feeling alone and being able to be in a space to have shared learning and shared perspective on a very uh lonely job at times, um, as you uh expressed. I'm wondering about as you begin to think about your career and the work that you've done, and especially in community, there are times where so I've I've worked for 30 years in a rural community, or we're trying to, you know, build systems within rural communities that can help raise the aspirations of young people growing up there. And um what's interesting is that I have had to course-correct my own self at times in this idea of what's missing here versus what's strong, and the belief that actually I'm not there to have an answer for this community that I showed up in, but that I'm gonna use the greatest strength in any given rural community as a way to help inspire growth in community members. And that greatest strength, this people, the people of a rural community is there. And I'm wondering about what was your own learning curve on um showing up into a small rural town and not noticing what's missing from it, but what is actually already there that you can latch on to to make even something strong even stronger?

SPEAKER_00 30:49

It was a meaty question, but to live in a rural community is a real gift because we go back to relationships, don't we, Don? And I I just I told someone recently, um, I live in the sort of community when I'm going to the post office to pick up my mail. It's not going to be a two-minute dash in, dash out because I'm going to see someone I know. And you never know. So I think it's being within a community and and doing what I can to encourage those connections across what might look like a divide. You know, here I am, sort of a retired person moving into this community where there's people whose great-grandparents lived here. And but just seeing each other as people and having those conversations and also being aware you don't know what's going on for somebody at the time. I I do I'm known in my family. I inherited from my father the ability to talk to just about anybody, and I really enjoy it. I random conversations and asking somebody how they're doing. And um, you know, I love it. Thanksgiving, I love asking people, what's your favorite side dish? I'll ask at the Hannah Fers at the cashier at checkout. And just I think, and that's that trust, and I think that's that confidence I've achieved at this time in my life, is those sorts of things matter and they're important. It's important work. And I do more and more think of it, oh, this is my work now, is just to smile, to listen to people, to be there. When you first showed up, what what year did you show up into St.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

George?

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Well, we first rented here in 2002. Um, we were able to buy a home that we could use all summer and on weekends in 2003, and then made the decision to be here full-time about 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Had you ever lived in a community that has, you know, 3,000 people living in it versus somewhere else?

SPEAKER_00 32:55

No, where we lived in the Hudson Valley um was a semi-rural community of about 10,000, and it had a lot of the same elements of a lot of weekender people from Manhattan, and but people with generational deep ties.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I see.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

I appreciate the I think that that experience in Phillips Town primed me to see, and I think primed Richard and I to choose St. George because we we valued that closeness and that connection.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yeah. It's interesting when, and it's not that there's not challenges in for youth and families growing up in a rural community. And I have found as both somebody who's done a ton of grant writing, but also been on the other side of receiving grants as somebody who's worked in the philanthropic space for a foundation, that everybody wants the person writing the grant to make the case. What's your case for the intervention that you're doing? And primarily receiving grants from rural communities and from rural nonprofits, the tendency is to focus on all the things that are wrong in that community. And um as a way to make the case for the money. And I and listen, I know that there are uh a lot of things that can provide attention that need attention. Many things that in fact you have helped focus on with the the efforts that you've done um with Mike and others around broadband in our community as an example. I always tell people that I I can uh do a Zoom call meeting in my town now because of Susan Bates. But uh I know there was a lot of other people too. But I guess my my point of bringing all of that up is I'm wondering about how, in the midst of all the work that you do, you stay focused on the things that are so great about the rural community versus all the work that you might be doing to help strengthen other areas in need of growth and attention. Is that just come natural to you, or is that like, yeah, sometimes I do have to remind myself how incredible this community is when I'm dealing with all some of the challenges that I'm volunteering my time to do?

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yes. Yes, it can be, yes. First off, there were a lot of other people on the broadband, and I won't all, but I just um but thank you for that. Um, I got to be the public-facing thing because I asked everybody for money to do it. Um, let me ask it a different way.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

When you feel personally at various times of your life stuck in a what what I call the um the doom loop, what do you do to give perspective as a way to align the perspective in a new way to immediately get you out of that doom loop into a more positive space, seeing the good?

SPEAKER_00 36:14

I have a random conversation with somebody. I go to Hamford's and I'm pushing my cart and I talk to somebody I don't know picking out avocados, or I go to the post office and I see someone, or I just go for a walk in the woods alone. I mean, that's a lot, a lot of that. And you you we started this talking about intuition, and when I when I'm grappling with the question, I'll walk out our dirt road and turn around and come back, and I know exactly where it'll go. Oh, yes. And it's you know, nothing in my ears. I'm just my dog and I are walking, and something will just sort of sit after about a mile, and I think, okay, that's it. I get out of my own way, and that's not to say, yes, I can get frustrated with you know all the different opinions and ways of seeing the world that swirl around, even this small community. But then I look around at the beauty and the relationships, and it's it's a balance.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

And yeah, well, there's no doubt that we live in such a beautiful area, and I I couldn't agree more with you that when I'm overthinking or in this space of ruminating on a particular mindset that I I really does not serve me, my greatest go-to is to get out of my head and into my body, and therefore getting into these getting into the woods or getting uh my body moving. You mentioned prior to um coming on the the episode when we were in the green room, so to speak, that you recently uh got into I can't remember the right wording, but long form walking. I think it might be. Oh, I like that. And um, so I'm wondering about uh what tell me a little bit about that. I'm just curious curious. I know it's a little off topic, but I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

So four years ago, Richard and I discovered that we love um going over to the United Kingdom UK someplace. And the first one was in Scotland, and we found a little tiny company that plans our route for us, books the hotels, taxis, and we just in the morning we have breakfast, we lace up our boots, and I've got my GPS app and I walk and we go at different paces, and Richard'll say, I'll meet you in four miles. He's got his Kindle, and I the app beeps if I go off the trail, but I can stop and I can look at birds and flowers, and we just do that. And we the first one we did was 90 miles, and we just came back from doing two second year doing 200 miles in 18 days.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

And it's I just think of it, it's my mind rinse. I don't have anything in my ears, random conversations and connections on the trails with all sorts of different people, um, and just a different landscape. And there's just something really marvelous about it.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

So yeah, that's really beautiful. That's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

That's what it's that's how we like to spend our vacation time um is doing that. I wanted to go back back to the question, sure, you know, focusing on, you know the the nature of the system where to get a grant you have to focus on what's missing to make a case, especially for rural communities. And it's something that the power of being in a rural community is that a small investment can go so far, and you can see the impact. And I think that's what also helps any frustration I might feel about bumping up against different expectations within a small community, but at least we're connected, and any investment that I choose to make with my time, like getting broadband or doing Dragon Heart volunteers, is I can see the impact. I can see that by bringing these other volunteers together and watching what they're doing out on our school community, that you get a chance. And I think that's what makes being part of a rural community so, so special. And especially in Maine, where with 1.3 million people, it's even rural, air quotes, compared to you know, people that live in a bigger community.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

So I do yeah, no, thanks for bringing that back. I appreciate that. And um, you're right that it's not just a small amount of money, but a small amount of effort by an individual or group of individuals can make the biggest difference. And um, and so uh that has played out in so many forms that I've been a part of, but also seen uh within our community and others around the state. So uh I have three more, two questions and one other piece. I wanted to share one of my favorite quotes. This is a little impromptu, but I wanted to share one of my favorite quotes and just see what things come to mind as you hear this quote. Okay from all people, uh it comes from Tom Brady's personal trainer, Alex Guerrero. And he says and would always tell Tom that what you focus on grows, and that's where energy flows, and that's what grows. What you focus on grows, energy flows, that's what grows. And so I'm curious about just whatever comes to your mind as you hear that.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Abundance versus scarcity. And you know what? That's what you know. We we talked about, you know, sort of conversations with my children, and I think maybe that's what one thing I do do is focus on the abundance in the situation and not the scarcity, and say, well, okay, I I hear that this is hard, and but I'm also seeing that there's this going on, that there's this opportunity. And then back to also thinking about where the energy flows, it's um what you what what we're measuring for organizations and in communities and what we're valuing. What are we valuing? Well, if we're valuing connection and relationship, then that's if that's our focus, then that's where the energy will flow. And to your work, right, of lifting up youth and health. I mean, I we talked so we talked about getting out of our heads and into our bodies. And I think that's what what the long-distance walking does is just so much time in my body and strengthening and staying limber and um mobile. I was reading recently um, you know, that this is the year of mobility in our bodies. Let's, you know, in addition to strength, um, let's focus on mobility. So and balance. I like this. I'll I'll take it with me. Um, especially as we're we're um wrapping up strategic planning for Maine Math and Science Alliance. And it's been a great, great process. And I think this could be a capstone to it, is that what we're focusing on is where the energy will flow.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Yeah, so I want to make sure I get the quote right because I I think I'm I misquoted Alex. It's where your attention goes, energy flows, and that's what grows. So it's it's incredibly important to be intentional about where our attention, where we're putting our attention. And for me, as I shared in that in the reflection, is that I was focused more on what I didn't have rather than what was possible. And you know, I I found myself, you know, and said, How's your day? or how'd you sleep? And my first inkling was to say, I didn't get enough sleep, I got to bed late, all of a sudden there wasn't enough. Or how was your day? You know, and I began to focus on things that didn't go well, as opposed to highlighting the things that did. And I don't know. I first, like when I started thinking about this and come coming into awareness on this, I felt like, I don't know, it feels a little bit cheaty, meaning like I'm not totally being honest with what I'm feeling, but I recognized that I feel so much better when I am in a positive mindset. And I just had to retrain myself, uh, to be honest. I had to retrain myself to look first and foremost at what was good, what was solid, what was strong before I got into the space of looking for what was wrong, what wasn't there, what I didn't have. And it's probably one of the biggest pieces of advice that I've ever shared with young people is that you know, there's so much part of the human experience where we're focused on what isn't there, or what we don't have, or things that went wrong versus being able to focus on what we want versus what we don't want. And um anyway, so that's kind of why that quote was so strong for me.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah. And your reflection brings to mind something I just Richard and I were talking about this morning. Jonathan Haid or Haight did the commencement address at NYU, and his advice was pay attention. And his focus was also more on social media and make sure that you, you know, we're in an attention economy, so make sure that you claim your own attention. So I appreciate that adding the personal trainer's quote to that, too.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Yeah. Well, let me close by this question. For younger leaders, and I know you're not going to impart wisdom, but I do want you to impart Susan's thoughts on this. For younger leaders who are still finding their way, what advice would you give them about learning to see strengthen themselves in others and in the communities they serve? As the first thought, as the first, what advice would you give them as they move through this process of kind of being becoming?

SPEAKER_00 47:03

I have two thoughts. One is find a group, find a cohort with whom you can be vulnerable about what's going on. But I'll also now add, because of what you just reflected to me is perhaps consider a generosity or a gratitude, a gratitude practice, where it's not something that I've done a lot of, but I know for some people it really, really works of what are three things you're grateful for today, and to help make that shift.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Yeah, that's really beautiful. It makes me think about, I've talked many times, so I won't bore the uh listeners again about this gratitude practice I have in the morning around walking. But when I was trying to make this shift from focusing on what I don't have versus you know what I want and um what I do have, I saw this thing online that that said one way to do it is to find three stones that mean something to you and put them in your pocket and always carry them with you. And at any given day, you can have some cornerstone or touchstone that brings you back to why you're carrying those things, which is a place of gratitude. And I did it for years, and kids, I'd have them on trips with kids, and they'd always say, What are those? And I'd explain it, and they they would look at me like I had six heads. But it was my way of retraining my brain to start with gratitude versus you know, complaint, I guess. Just a small little virtual. Yeah, I love that, Don. Yeah, this has been wonderful. I I wish we could continue to go on. We're at time. Thank you. Thanks for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I've got so much to go back and think about. I appreciate it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Well, thank you, Susan. And um, if you could just stay with me for a couple more minutes and um I'll uh be able to say goodbye to you at the end. So I I want to just take away a couple high-level pieces that I'm taking uh from Susan in our conversation today. I think one of the things that I was asking her as she was started out in this role of being a leader, that she said that one of the biggest defining moments of her leadership experience was when she moved from a place of believing she was an imposter to a place of where she could truly trust her own intuition. And what I loved about that was that it requires a great deal of vulnerability to kind of be honest with ourselves about kind of not only course correcting uh a particular mindset of what we don't have or how we think we're not showing up to a place of saying, hey, I've got a lot to bring to the table. And I need to begin to honor that gut and instead of ignoring that gut. So I I just thought that was wonderful. I really appreciated the humility and honesty around her bringing up the idea that wisdom can't be imparted, it can only be revealed. And when I have found over the years that people who believe that are not people who are going out on the speaking tour, these are folks who are creating spaces for individuals to come together and knowing that by creating that structure and space, that wisdom is going to be revealed in that space rather than an individual's perspective, uh, you know, for lack of a better word, teaching or preaching it. And so in this case, it's like it comes from within, it comes from within the group by creating the space and the um container for that to happen. And you could really feel it from Susan as she was sharing that, and then finally, you know, uh this idea that a practice or a ritual for Susan to move from a place of getting out of her head, perhaps in a space that on any given day or moment where she is feeling a little unaligned because her focus is on something that maybe isn't serving her. She says that she goes and walks in the woods to get the perspective. And I love that so much for so many reasons. It's a value that I own I have, and it's a value and practice that I believe is so simple. Of course, not everybody has woods to walk in, but everybody's got a place that they can go and walk and get out of their head and into their body, um, to the best of their ability to move in the outdoors in some particular way. And so I think it's incredible wisdom, even though she uh was shy to impart it upon us. So thank you for that, Susan. I want to just leave you, the listeners, with just two questions for your own reflection. The first is where in my leadership am I most likely to see what is missing before I see what is already present? Where in my leadership am I most likely to see what's missing before I see what's already present? The second piece is, how would my leadership change if I made a practice to begin with what's strong before addressing what needs to grow? How would my leadership change? Or you could even put, how would my relationships change if I made a practice to begin with what's strong before addressing what needs to grow? As we close, again, my dearest thanks to Susan for joining me on the podcast. As always, I want to thank Omar for producing this episode. And if you found something meaningful here today, would you consider sharing this episode with somebody else? That simple act can really help grow this audience, which I would deeply appreciate. And if you have a reflection or thought you'd like to share with me, I'd welcome it. You can reach me at Don at Carpenter Company Consulting dot com. Thanks for listening. And always remember, the journey of leadership begins within the colour.