What the Body Refuses to Hide

In this episode, Don reflects on what the body often knows before we are ready to say it out loud, and how the parts of ourselves we learn to silence can still shape the way we lead.

He is joined by his wife, Sheryl Carpenter, a former educator, longtime accountant, nutrition coach, personal trainer, and group fitness instructor who has spent more than 30 years helping people grow stronger, healthier, and more trusting of themselves. Together, they explore quiet leadership, the courage to change course, the wisdom of the body, and what it means to help others become stronger from the inside out. 

To learn more about Don's work, upcoming offerings, and leadership resources, visit carpentercompanyconsulting.com

 If something in today’s episode spoke to you, I hope you’ll subscribe and continue the journey with me — because leadership begins within. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to Meditations on Leadership. I'm Don Carpenter. Let me ask you: what happens when the parts of our younger selves we learn to silence keep finding their ways to speak? That question brings us into this week's meditation and into a reflection on the younger selves we carry into leadership, often much more than we realize. Because leadership does not begin with a title, it begins much earlier in the places where we learned what was safe to show, what needed to be hidden, and what parts of ourselves we thought we had to leave behind. Exploring these hidden dimensions of leadership is the core of this podcast. To help us navigate them, each week begins with a meditation, followed by a personal reflection, and then a conversation with a guest whose lived experience brings the theme to life. It is all in the service of the deeper inner formation that true leadership asks of us. And today I get to have that conversation with someone whose life and leadership have shaped my own in ways I'm still learning to name. Because today's guest is a very special one for me. Because I get to sit down with my wife, Cheryl Carpenter. I fell in love with Cheryl in 2010. And from the beginning, one of the things that struck me about her was the quiet strength she carries. She does not lead by trying to be the loudest person in the room. She leads by being steady, present, deeply prepared, and trustworthy. And I can honestly say her presence in my life has changed the way I understand love, family, courage, and of course, leadership. Professionally, Cheryl is a personal trainer and group exercise instructor who has spent more than 30 years helping people become stronger, healthier, and more confident in their bodies. She holds certifications in personal training, group exercise, nutrition, coaching, and most recently, golf fitness through the Titles Performance Institute or TPI, which feels especially fitting now that she has planted us in Southwest Florida, surrounded by golfers working on strength, mobility, flexibility, and balance. But Cheryl's path into this work was not a straight line. She earned her degree in business education from Hussan College, coached youth soccer, served as a residential, a resident assistant, coached high school softball, managed a dental office, taught middle school math and high school business, started her own accounting business, worked as an administrator for a small water district, and served as health club director at the Samuset Resort in Rockport, Maine. Through all of those chapters, while even raising three children and balancing more than most people ever saw, there was always this steady thread helping people grow. And for her last several decades, that is exactly what she has done. Not just by teaching classes or training clients, but by building relationships rooted in trust, consistency, care, and belief. People keep showing up for Cheryl because they know she sees them. They trust her with their bodies, their goals, their confidence, and their well-being. And today, I'm so grateful to welcome her to meditations on leadership. Cheryl, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Well, hello. I'm so glad to be here. Looking forward to this. Really looking forward to this. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

We are so welcome. Well, before we jump in, let me share Meditation 13 from my forthcoming book titled What the Body Refuses to Hide, which is a theme that Cheryl picked for our conversation today. It begins with a quote that I wrote down back in 2018. And it's by a familiar person that I've highlighted on the show before because I love his writing. It was in the New York Times op-ed page. And the quote goes like this our culture teaches girls not to speak, and boys not to feel. Girls begin to say, I don't know, while boys say, I don't care. Both are pushed away from honest sharing and deep connection. Unquote. I've spent my entire professional life working with young people. And I have seen a pattern often enough to know there is truth in it. I've watched girls slowly lose trust in their own voice. I've watched boys go quiet the moment emotion enters the room. Not because they are broken, but because they've learned how to survive. Learned what is acceptable. Learned what gets rewarded. Learned what to hide. Somewhere between childhood and adulthood, many young people begin to disconnect from their truest parts of themselves. They stop saying what they feel. They begin to shrink in the very years where they are meant to expand. And most of us do not simply outgrow that conditioning. We carry it with us. We just learn how to bury it. We become adults. Some of us become leaders, but underneath the titles in the polished exterior, there's often still a younger self who learned it was safer not to speak, safer not to feel. Unless we do the inner work, we end up leading from those places. I know this because I lived it. And as I've mentioned before on the podcast, when I was 24, I woke up one morning with my chest tightened. A wave overwhelm, a wave of overwhelm came over me that I could not explain. Eventually I came to understand that I was having panic attacks. But I was not panicking over a situation. I was panicking over a who. The who was me. More specifically, it was the little boy in me I had spent years silencing, the one who had learned not to cry, not to show fear, not to trust anything too tender. And one day the dam broke. Gears of buried grief and confusion came rushing to the surface. My body had been carrying what my soul refused to face. And at some point, it simply said, I will not carry this alone anymore. I used to think my body was betraying me. Now I understand it was telling me the truth. That moment felt terrifying, but it was also a beginning. In the midst of that unraveling, I found someone I could trust, someone who could sit with my honesty without judgment, someone who did not rush to fix me or tidy up what was messy, someone who simply made it safe to tell the truth. And in that kind of presence, something in me began to soften. Enough to breathe again, enough to feel again, enough to begin the slow and courageous work of becoming whole. That journey inward changed me. It helped me remember who I was before the world taught me to disconnect from myself. And that is where real leadership begins. Not when we finally have ourselves figured out, but when we stop leading from the parts of ourselves we have refused to face. And instead of trusting what I knew, I overwrote it. Within six months, the person we hired was gone. In that choice, the organization lost time, energy, and momentum. But more than that, someone I cared about and respected was hurt. Someone I should have trusted in the first place. And when I had to go back and ask that person to step into the role, I had to begin the harder work of earning that trust back. That one stayed with me. Not simply because I made the wrong higher, but because I sensed something and did not have the courage to trust it. Now, not every gut feeling is wisdom. Sometimes it's fear, sometimes it's ego, but sometimes it is not. Sometimes it's the body telling the truth before the leader or the person is ready to say it out loud. And the harder question becomes am I seeking advice or am I avoiding what I already know? I wish I could say I always listen to those whispers when they show up, but I don't. I still miss them, I still talk myself out of them. I still sometimes mistake being collaborative for giving away what I already know. But I am learning to pay closer attention when somebody something in me keeps tugging. And that feels like a natural place to turn the interview back with Cheryl because her work is rooted in the body. But I have never seen it as only being about exercise. At its best, her work helps people listen more closely to themselves, trust what they're capable of, and grow stronger from the inside out. So, Cheryl, as you listen to the meditation and this reflection, what resonated with you, what stirred in you, and what has stayed with you?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Well, I wrote a number of things down. Um, first though, I just want to say, I just think it's so beautiful the way that you are sharing and uh so freely from your personal experiences. Being it, you know, it takes so much vulnerability to do that. And I know from myself the ability to hear that and apply it to whatever areas of my life is uh is really wonderful. And I've talked to so many other people who feel the same way, folks that have listened to the podcast and maybe don't even consider themselves leaders, but they can apply something that they heard, something in the meditation to how they're a parent or how they are as a volunteer and that kind of thing. Um, so anyway, thank you. It's uh incredibly valuable. You know, I wrote so many things down here. Um, of course, the the point that Elizabeth Gilbert made that if we don't listen to to our to the whispers of our soul, I feel like we can unpack a lot there. I think there have been so many moments in my life where my soul has been whispering something and it it actually manifests in the body, in some, you know, the body starts to have all of this that it has to do something with, and maybe the body even gets sick or it gets injured and that sort of thing. And we can unpack some of that. Um, I loved what you said about the clients, my clients, the people who I work with one-on-one, or the people who come to my group exercise classes, uh that they that I am able to help them trust what they are capable of. I love that phrase so much. And I think it took me a long time. As you said, I've been doing this work for over 30 years, and I think it it's probably even as recently as the last 10 years when I started to recognize that impact on the lives of the people that I would that I work with. And it was through example after example after example of somebody just not believing that they could change the weight that they lift for a bicep curl from you know eight pounds to 10 pounds to 12 pounds. And, you know, they'd say so many times, oh, this is heavy. I know I can't do this. I've never, I would never pick this weight. And of course they can. And uh and when they realize that, they have a way to say out loud, like, you know, wow. And then say, well, there's no going back now. There's no going back now. We're at 10 pounds now, and that's gonna be your new, your new weight. And um every single time that happens with a client, they do trust my guidance and they trust themselves. And it goes into other areas of their life. I can just share one um example. This one, I just loved this example, and I think it was probably 15 to 20 years ago. And I was working with a woman, and she was, you know, a retired woman. And as with a lot of women, um, the upper body strength just isn't there. And I've been working with her for quite a while, and uh Christmas came, and we got together after for another session after uh she and her husband had gone to get their Christmas tree. And she said, I'm so excited when she came to her session. I'm so excited. I can't wait to tell you this. So Jim and I went to get our tree and we were putting it on. We needed to lift it up onto the roof of the car. This is in Maine, and you know, you put the tree on the roof and you strap it down. And she said, when they went to lift the tree, she had the heavy end, the end with the big part of the trunk, not the top of the tree. And he said to her, Oh, you no, I'll take that in. And she said, No, I can do it. And they lifted it up, and sure enough, she hoisted the heavy end of the tree up on top of the car. She was just so lit up about that practical moment. It was a practical thing in life to do, to lift something up over her head. She also was really happy that she was able to show her husband, I'm capable, like I can do this, I'm capable of this. And I mean, I got goosebumps all over when she told me that story. I'm like, I have goosebumps now. Uh, it's it's so satisfying. It's it's the satisfying thing about this work. I wrote other notes too, but I don't want to get off track here.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Well, I uh I appreciate you sharing that story and uh thank you for the opening comments about just acknowledging the vulnerability that goes into this work. I wanted to start a little bit uh with my questions around your path, your journey. And so before we get into the work that you do now, how how would you describe the thread that connects teaching, coaching, accounting, personal training, and group exercise? Like what's the through line there?

SPEAKER_01 19:51

It's a good um question. I think this will be a kind of a fun, fun thought process, but I don't know that I have a link between my group exercise life and my accounting life. Really, anybody looks at that and says, that doesn't really track. Uh, how can those two things be coming out of the same person? So that one I think is a little bit of a mystery, and we can we can dive into that. But you're correct that there are so many uh of the other things that I've done where teaching is central. It's the it's the front line, whether it was coaching the um coaching the kids in soccer, coaching softball. And as you know, softball was my absolute favorite, teaching group exercise classes, being a teacher in a classroom with subjects like math and accounting. That doesn't seem that doesn't seem that interesting, but I had I had a good time trying to make it practical. Again, there's that word practical, but practical for the students. I would come up with ways to make them think about how they're gonna have to use this in their lives and just getting to know my students and getting to know what is important to them. Maybe they're gonna be going out and buying a car soon. Great opportunity to talk, you know, do a lesson on interest rates and calculating interest and you know, that sort of thing. I I don't know. I just like teaching. It's feels it feels good. Um, I think that there's those moments when you see somebody's somebody's lights go on, like that they really get the under they get the full understanding or how it applies to them. And yeah, it's uh very rewarding.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Well, as you think about the the journey and you look back at those early chapters, uh Teaching and coaching and and accounting. What did it teach you about yourself and the kind of work that gives you energy?

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Well, at the time, I don't know that I had really reflected on any of that. I just knew what felt good. And I know that when I was putting myself in those positions, I don't have any memory of ever thinking, I need to go do this because I need to make a difference in the, you know, in youth soccer at the YMCA. So, you know, it's kind of embarrassing to admit that it wasn't all neatly packed and that I understood there was a job to do and that it was my job to go and do that and make a difference. I was doing what made me, it felt natural. It I was doing what made me feel good.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Well, in terms of I I I want to just uh point out, you said something, you said I didn't know, but I know what I I know what I felt. I'm not sure I had it in my brain, but I I I know what I felt. Yeah, there weren't words.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

I didn't have language for it, but I know what I felt. And it felt um life-giving to do those things.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yeah. And and that kind of goes to the theme of the the meditation itself, is that the body can speak, even though we may not be putting words to it. It finds a way to get across what is deep inside uh through feelings, um, and and that sort of thing. Was there a part of you that always knew you were meant to work closely with people? Even though the form changed over time?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Uh, that certainly changed over time. Well, I don't know that I would say it changed, but it evolved. And uh something you know about me that I think people are surprised to hear is that I'm incredibly introverted. Meaning, you know, I'm not shy. I I know I know you know that one. I'm not shy. Uh shy isn't the same as being an introvert. Obviously, I'm not shy because somebody who's shy wouldn't go marching into the YMCA and say, I really think I'd like to coach your soccer team, or you know, take step up in front of a group, teach that class. So shyness isn't it, but uh as an introvert, meaning that a lot of time in group settings, uh, one-on-one time with people, uh, I can do it. And it also really exhausts me. I need a fair amount of time after the fact to have that downtime, to have that reflective time. Um, and just, you know, you and I have joked, just uh stare at the sky for a little while. It's it's kind of an over over uh illustration, but that's that's what you get. And so I think that what surprised me in my journey is that I would continue to choose things to do that require me to be forward-facing, and then I need a lot of time to recover from it. So going into a role of teaching and um and doing all sorts of one-on-one stuff and being in the spotlight, if you will, which takes a lot out of a person. Uh, I guess in the beginning, I don't think I really knew I could do that. And then I realized I can. And the the evolution of it was, okay, but but or and I can do it. I've got to balance it with some other stuff, which kind of goes back to your question. I think we've we're answering that first question that I was stumped over. How does somebody who is teaching a group exercise class, doing personal training sessions, um, running around on a soccer field with kids, sitting at a computer and preparing financial statements and doing bank statement reconciliations and all of that? Well, I guess that's the downtime. The brain is obviously very busy, but it's a it's a time of just being by myself, inward, um, still working on something that's sort of fun. It's kind of fun. Not everybody would call it fun, but I I can get some joy out of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Well, so I think the question that comes up for me as somebody who's watched it from afar, and then of course, over the last 15 years up close is that you came to a point where there was more accounting work than there was in the group exercise space. And um, meaning that your joy of teaching, whether that's ahead of a group exercise class or with a client one-on-one, was something that you did on the side versus the main thing. And so I want to kind of go from the journey kind of to the leap. Do you remember when this stopped feeling like something you did on the side and started feeling like something you were being, I don't want to say called to, but to uh implement more fully or align those passions that you have and bring them out and say, actually, I'm gonna do less of that and more of this.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, I do remember that. And um at the time, well, it there are a few moments of this. One is that, like when I when the accounting was front and center, and I actually had my own accounting business and a couple of employees, that was paying the bills in a way that in rural Maine, things like personal training, which are on the higher end of what somebody might spend for their uh for their fitness needs or their recreational needs, it didn't seem to me, it was too much of a risk, way too much of a risk, to set the accounting aside and go fully into um personal training. It just didn't seem like uh it could, in my mind, be a consistent, uh sufficient, and reliable source of income. Seemed like there were way too many uh variables. And it this reminds me of the conversation you had with Tom Culp on an on a previous episode where you were talking about being able to take the leap, and that he said, you know, practically we had some kids in school and you know, that sort of thing. And I would say this is to me feels really similar. There finally did come a point, and really it was, I guess it goes hand in hand with when we started spending uh winters in Florida, and I found myself in an area where I knew that I could take that leap and it was going to be safe.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Um so what would you name or what did it take for you to trust that instinct, that that that that whisper enough to make the leap?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

It took a lot of courage, actually, to trust that whisper. It took a lot of courage because at the same time we were, you and I were getting established down here in Florida. It was actually feeling um like I could I could do anything I want to do right now. I could fall back into, I could, you know, try to go work for an accounting firm, or I could follow that route. Or I could really put myself out there, go to a gym or a or a country club, uh, rely on my skills. And that was its own journey, trusting that I, you know, having the confidence to do that, trusting that I had a valuable service to offer. And uh that's what I chose to do. That was the that just seemed like that's what I want to do. I can't see myself walking into some uh some business and working at a desk job. It's just felt soul sucking to me to do something like that. And this I knew was I had to trust what my body had been telling me all the time is that it feels good to go and do that. And now if I can do it and I can have it all, I can do it and it it's it financially works. Why wouldn't I do that? Just had to overcome some confidence issue confidence issues, but that uh that all sorted itself out.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

So I just want to repeat back to you what I just heard, and that is that, you know, I'm gonna add a couple more details based on just context, but you know, you found yourself at basically 51 years old, 50 years old, where we were making a change in our lives to a different geography, and we were trying to figure out how could we how could we actually make a living so that we could be down there more because we weren't sure how that was going to work. And you said to yourself, What if I could do anything, what would I do? And so you found the courage to put yourself out there in a way that you got clear about what gave you the most energy. And I remember when we were down there, you said out of the blue, as you were going through your own process on it, saying, I just applied for a job at this club.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

I remember, yes, I did that, just kind of just kind of did it in the on the in the quiet of my little office space.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yeah, and and so anyway, it can't uh I think the word that you mentioned that comes up for me in this is the the basis of courage. And it reminds me of a quote, and I don't remember who said it, but it said something to the effect that you know our lives expand or shrink proportionate to our own courage, meaning that the more courage we have to put ourselves out there, our lives will expand. And the and if we don't take that courage and own it, then our lives tend to shrink or stay small, I should say. And um, and so I just want to acknowledge that leap of faith that you took because it's opened up uh you were you talked about confidence. I find I I saw your confidence move from let's say uh uh seven and a half to a 12 when you when you got that job and began to build a whole new clientele at at midlife, not knowing whether or not you could do that again, even though you've got this incredible following here in Maine, you were able to do it again in Florida. And um, I think that gave you worlds of confidence. It did. It did. So I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style. And you know, we've had since I started this writing the book and in having the podcast, we've had many conversations about whether you see yourself as a leader and what that looks like. And so I think we established that you are a leader and an incredible one at that. And so you've built this following of people both in Florida and Maine, who've stayed with you for years, and some even for decades. What do you think people are really responding to in the way you lead?

SPEAKER_01 35:14

I as as you know, when I actually when I first began listening to your podcast, and as I was uh had a front row to the meditations and all of the conversation and uh on leadership, I thought, wow, boy, I I really haven't done anything with my life. I'm not a leader anywhere. Uh, I didn't recognize it until I really started to put together the timeline uh of the different things that I have led and positions where I have been um the leader. I think the thing, it's hard for me to say really nice things about myself. So I'm gonna have to get right in here. Um uh the I think the thing is that two things. For one, the the group that I found around me coming to my classes and and engaging with me for personal training in Maine to start with, knew that I was gonna be there. I wasn't going anywhere. Uh, I was there at the bright and early class, I was there for the nighttime class. I I could be dependent on to be there. Another thing is that I do put a lot of time into preparing, not just for the personal training sessions, because that takes a lot of pre preparation. Each person is different. The 75-year-old man who's had a couple of shoulder replacements is different from the uh 32-year-old woman who's been a diehard gym rat her whole life. Like that's two very different things. And to to be able to shift gears between the people takes some preparation. And so they know that. They know that I'm not just dialing up the same, you know, exercise uh plan for one person that I would do for another. And the same goes for a group exercise class. I spend probably what most people would consider an unnecessary amount of time creating all my own music playlists, um, understanding what the group kind of part uh really responded to in a previous class or a previous mix, you know, making sure this particular song lands right when I want to do a cardio burst, and another is kind of a gritty song when we're gonna be squatting and up to an overhead press. Like I put a lot of time and thought into that. And even if people don't know that I've done that, they know what they feel. They may not be able to name, oh wow, Cheryl really crushed it today because she started the jumping jacks right at the bridge of the song or the chorus uh of the song and like that kind of thing. They don't know, but their bodies know what they feel and it pulls something out of them, it makes them capable of working a little harder and going beyond what either what they would do by themselves or even what they thought they could do. And another thing is that I get to know my clients and my group exercise participants really well through conversation about what's going on in their life and sharing little bits here and there about what's going on in my life. So we we have a relationship and I check in with them when, you know, when I'm not at work, I may check in with them after a particular class and, you know, send them a text message later or approach them right after the class. How did your knee feel today? You know, this and that. And so they know they know I'm on their fitness journey with them, alongside them uh in their fitness journey. I had some clients down here and they were a husband and wife, and they ended up going through uh one of them was going through some health issues, and they um they both were texting me different things about what happened at a doctor appointment and and all of that, and it made me understand the seriousness of what I do. They said, you're on our team. I'm on their team, like I'm on their team of professionals and I'm in their circle, and that is not to be taken lightly.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah. So I want to again just repeat back to you some of the things that you share because I know how hard it is for you to say them about yourself, but even harder for you to hear them. But I'm gonna try my best to pull out the nuggets here.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Yeah, okay, buckled up.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

So the question that I asked you was what do you think people are really responding to in the way you lead? And you said you're incredibly consistent, you're dependable, you're incredibly prepared. They respond to your leadership because they trust that you're gonna push them beyond what they're capable of without hurting themselves, that they know that you know them, that you see them, and that you have you didn't use this word, but it's word I would use, you have a bi-directional relationship with them, and you're just not somebody in front of the room telling them what to do, and then see them again the next week and do it all over again that you're checking in with them to see how they're doing and learning about their lives, and so you're walking along the journey alongside them, and so as somebody who's been in your classes and watched you prepare, and it's so fun for me uh to see it, plus I get the benefit of all the things that you just mentioned, but one of the things that I've seen is that people do not just come to you for exercise, what they're really trusting you with is their well-being, and I'm wondering about how do you understand that trust when I think about well-being and being somebody who has others count on me and my life for helping them and supporting their well-being, that trust becomes a uh a trusted mirror where somebody is that vulnerable with somebody else about their their quirks and their aches and their pains and their body and how it looks and how they feel inside their body, because we know that there are people who are completely fit but don't have a strength-based approach. They don't see the strength, they see everything that they lack. And so when they find somebody like you who can mirror that type of reflection back to them about what's good, what's strong, what needs to where they need to lean in a little bit more, and you can help them, they don't feel judged, they don't feel insecure, they feel hungry to make change in themselves. And when I think about what you do, and I know I'm adding a lot of things in here, but I see that as being your a superpower.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

I'm thinking of different situations with clients, and they're all unique. Um what's important to one is not important to another. Uh, something that feels vulnerable for one doesn't feel vulnerable to another. I think that when once once I've established the relationship with the client, and sure, they can come into their session and perhaps they do have an ache that day, or they didn't sleep well the night before, or they played golf. Golf the day before. And it was either a great round, and they've got something they want to share with me to about that, and even giving credit to some of the different golf fitness exercises that we do for it. Or somebody who had a terrible time on the golf course and is ready to quit and comes in and just like, have you, have you ever, has this ever happened to you, and this ever happened to you? And it was so embarrassing and this and that. And I can, I just really enjoy meeting them where they are, wherever that is that day. And offering uh words of encouragement, offering even a couple of my own vulnerable stories, like uh boy, you wouldn't believe what happened to me on the golf course the other day, and or you know, whatever it might be. It makes me feel when I'm doing that, like I said before, it's it's a serious, it's a serious thing, like it's a serious thing to do, to hold people's confidences, um, to hold their vulnerabilities, to never, ever judge, to offer words of encouragement. You know, sometimes we in the personal training industry um are certainly not licensed, but therapists in many ways. And I feel pretty comfortable relating to my clients and the people in my fitness classes on a really personal level. They know that I'm not making something up, they know that I'm not handing them uh fluff, they know that I mean it. And if there's a challenge, then we name it and we figure out how to overcome it. We, I uh it's always we, the client and I.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

So much of our lives, and this goes to the meditation and um our ability to listen to those whispers and pay attention to what our body's telling us. Sometimes we make up these narratives or stories about ourselves that are different from what others think and believe about us. And when I think about those narratives, sometimes personal narratives they can be so limiting. And I'm wondering about uh if you would consider yourself somebody who's helping people unwrite their personal narrative and giving them the confidence to write a new narrative about themselves.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

For sure. For sure is the short answer to that question. How many times I can't even count how many times a person may say I have terrible balance. I this uh, well, I don't know if I can do that. That's my bad leg. Um I like I said, never never lifted this uh amount of weight before. And it's um we're not talking unreasonable amounts of weight, we're talking reasonable amounts of weight. And for me to be able to say, well, let's give that a try. Let's give it a try. Maybe we'll modify it to begin with, and then we take the training wheels off, if you will, uh metaphor. And uh once they believe that they can, you're right, they do want more. I think you said that, like it leaves them wanting more. They come, they're standing a little bit higher the next time they come. And something I'll point out to them um, you know, toward the end of the season in Florida, for instance, like do you do you remember at the beginning of the season when this was not an exercise we could do? You weren't quite, you know, the confidence wasn't there, the comfort wasn't there, the balance was wasn't there. Like, look at you now. I I get goosebumps in those moments with people. I sometimes feel myself getting choked up and teary-eyed because I'm so happy for them and I can see it in them. It's empowering to feel that your body can do what you've asked it to do. I didn't have language for that when I was younger, but I knew what felt good if I was strong enough to climb to the top of the tree and be the, you know, the running around the field, kicking a soccer ball back and forth. Like it just felt empowering, which I think was a kind of a survival mode for me in those times when uh those parts of my life where, as you mentioned way earlier in this conversation, maybe I didn't feel like I had a voice, maybe I didn't feel seen, but here was a place like I felt strong, I felt capable, and that was gonna be enough at that point. Obviously, you have to tackle those emotional things later in life, but at the time it felt wonderful. And um, I love when other people can feel that, I just love it.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

Yeah, yeah. Well, so I've got uh three questions left for you. I wanted to flip the script for a minute and see if you have a question for me on this topic or you get to run the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Okay, a question I would have for you is do you think it's common for people to go through a good portion of their lives? You you spend time with a lot of people coaching them, you have uh a lot of wonderful relationships. Do you think it's common for people to go through their a chunk of their lives without understanding that they do have leadership qualities, uh, that they are having an impact, a positive impact on the people that they work with.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yeah, I think that there are many people, even as you said earlier in the podcast, that as you listened in to the meditations on leadership, that you felt like, well, that's for somebody else. That's not me. And I think that there are a lot of people who would just see the title itself and not even listen because they don't see themselves as leaders. But that's why I love Brene's quote around what is a leader. I'm gonna paraphrase, but somebody is a leader who sees themselves beyond title or position as seeing the potential in other people and holding themselves accountable to bringing out that potential in others. And uh, I mean, if that's if that's the true litmus test, then you are a leader through and through. Um, but the point is that you know, parents are leaders because they see the potential in their children and want to pull that out and put them in positions for them to grow into that potential and those that those gifts and strengths and sparks. And so I think leadership gets a bad rap just in terms of the general uh word of it, because it it immediately goes into kind of a corporate mindset or some nonprofit night mindset about what and who leaders are. And obviously, as you said, like it's an incredible responsibility to call yourself a leader, but more so, it's incredible responsibility for someone to trust another person with parts of their well-being. And whether that's psychologically, whether that's physically, whether that's emotionally, whether that's spiritually, whether that's professionally, you know, there's all these different dimensions of our lives that various leaders, mentors, coaches, whatever you know, uh noun or adjective you want to use for those people who we begin to trust with parts of our well-being that brings it out. I mean, I said in the meditation about finding this therapist who brought something out and helped me change my narrative to things that I suppressed and move through those so that that could no longer be a part of my narrative and freed me up to be more whole. And when I think about uh leadership, that's really what I think about. Now, it means helping people become more whole as opposed to having some agenda for them, like what they should be doing or not doing, those sorts of things, just constantly showing up and helping them think through what it means to be more whole, more like themselves, their best version of who they are as people. And if that happens, they're gonna carry on that energy into other aspects of their lives. I would say that people just to real directly answer your question, people who don't grow up around people who see or speak or identify or acknowledge that they're doing all this intentionally as part of their calling, what gives them energy. I grew up a lot around a lot of people like that, so I was able to name it and have language for it, but I don't think if you have language for it or around people who have language for it, it it stops people from recognizing the potential they have to impact others in a positive way. So that's how I would answer it. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So I just want to uh I ask two more questions and they and they really connect to the meditation as we close out. Okay, so much of this week's meditation is about listening to what we sometimes ignore inside ourselves. How has this work of really empowering people to become their best selves? How has this worked helped you listen to yourself differently over time?

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Well, I would say the thing that comes to mind for that is that I am much better at giving myself grace if you know if I have an injury or I have any kind of a struggle because I have to think about, well, what would I how would I help a client through this? I wouldn't disregard them. I wouldn't say, oh, okay, well, that's all right. Well, you might as well head home because there's nothing we can do with that issue. Um, like so it allows me to give myself some grace and to be okay that maybe the place I'm at is just where I am that day. It's okay, don't feel great. Um, it's okay if if I need uh you know a rest day or if I need to address um an injury, or if I don't have a good round on the golf course, like I can give myself some grace. These people come and they share their stories with me, and you know, I support the same words that I would support them with have to be the words that I support myself with.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Yeah, that's well said. That's well said. Yeah, I like that. I'm writing that down. So here's my final question for you. What would you say to someone who feels pulled toward a different kind of work? Maybe something they were doing on the side, but not full time, but is afraid to trust it. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Well, it you know, it's obviously a personal decision for everyone, and there can be factors that make it impractical, practical to, you know, make some sort of large change in their life. I think what I would do in that in that case is to share my own success story and you know, encourage through that. Probably ask them to visualize, okay, you know, this helps me. This helps me a lot. This helps me get in, kind of get into my body and what I'm gonna feel, but visualize yourself. I'm saying this to the person, and I don't know what they're torn between, but let's say they're torn between the same two things that I found myself kind of having to feel like I needed to make a change. So let's say I want you to visual visualize yourself getting up in the in the morning, and I want you to go, you drive to your office, you park your car, you go up to your space, you sit down, you open your folders of work that are on your desk, you have a, you know, your life like that. Now I want you to visualize the same thing. You get up in the morning, you've got a class that you're gonna go teach right at the beginning of your day. You've spent time creating this mix, you're all fired up about it. Uh, then you've got some one-on-one clients that you're gonna work with, and you're gonna leave at the end of the day, and maybe you're gonna work on a little continuing ed thing that evening and give yourself some new ideas for the next day. I want you to put yourself in both of those positions, like really put yourself there. Tell me what you feel when you feel yourself in your, you know, parked your car in the garage and you've walked into the big office. And what do you feel when you're walking in and you're walking into the class and you're gonna teach? Which thing? What do you feel? And really the feedback that they get inside themselves is the feedback to listen to.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that, honey. That's really beautifully said, which completely aligns with this meditation.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

So, well, we're at time. Thank you. You're welcome. You're awesome. Thank you so much for joining me and um for partnering with me, for being my uh both my inspiration and my biggest cheerleader.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

So thank you. That's easy. It's the easiest thing I get to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Well, if you'll just stay on for a few minutes while I close out, that's why I can say a proper goodbye, knowing that I am in Maine and you're in Florida. So uh it's good to see you right now. So I just want to um share just a couple of things I'm taking away from my conversation with Cheryl. She mentioned a couple of times throughout our session, which I underlined a couple of times, is that she allows others to trust what they're capable of. And of course, she has a very practical way of seeing that because somebody who started a session with two pounds and six months later is at 20 or whatever it might be, she can she can allow those folks over time to trust that they are capable of lifting that 20-pounder, that 30-pounder, whatever it might be. But what I loved about it was that when we think about leadership, I think that could be a really great definition is that leaders are people who allow others to trust what they're capable of within themselves and draw out that strength and begin to trust it. I I love that she mentioned that the main ingredient in order for her to take the leap was courage, she needed to have courage and be able to change what she was doing on the side to be the thing that was front and center, and let the thing that was front and center be on the side. What she hasn't said is she has one accounting client now, and everything else is full-time, personal training and group exercise, and everything to do with personal fitness, which is her thing that drives her energy. And before it was the other way around, and so she couldn't have done that without courage. And then I want to offer just two other real quick things. One was another strategy for leadership that she mentioned, not necessarily in this context, but is something that she said. She says, I I don't offer one size fits all strategies. Everybody is different, everybody. And so I've got to meet them where they are. And in my mind, watching her for the past 15 plus years, that really is the reason people stay with her, is because she can individualize her approach to prioritize the person over the performance or over the session. And that might happen through talking offline or about doctors' visits, that might happen based on the fact that they went through a shoulder transplant, whatever it might be, she's meeting people where they are. And when we think about leaders who are really, really effective leaders, it's my contention that those are folks that prioritize depth over breadth and don't offer one size fits all strategies. And then lastly, Grace, that we all have to listen more closely to the narratives that we tell ourselves. And when that narrative or story begins to ruminate in ourselves that we're not good enough, that we had a bad day, that I should have done this or I should have done that, that we stop that narrative with grace to say I did the best I could to Mars a new day. And I've got to be able to share with myself what I would share with others, all incredible stuff, and um that's why I married her. So let me uh leave you, the listener, with two questions for your own reflection on this topic. One is, what is something your body or your emotions or reactions may be trying to tell you that your mind has been tempted to ignore? What is something your body, emotions, or reactions may be trying to tell you that your mind has been tempted to ignore? And finally, what old way of protecting yourself may have once helped you survive but that now might be limiting the way you lead, the way you love, and the way you live. What old way of protecting yourself may have once helped you survive, but might now be limiting the way you leave, love, or live. In closing, I just want to thank Cheryl for joining me today. It was just such a pleasure. We've been looking forward to this uh for 40 episodes. So I just want to thank her for joining me. As always, to my producer and audio engineer Omar, thank you for everything you do. If you have found something meaningful here today, I hope you'll consider sharing it with one other person. If you have a reflection or thought that you'd like to share with me, I'd love to hear from you. You can reach me at Don at Carpenter Company Consulting dot com. Thanks for listening. And please remember that the journey of leadership begins within the video.