Risk vs. Moat: How to Make Yourself Harder to Replace with Freda Thomas

Michael speaks with executive coach and LinkedIn Top Voice Frida Thomas about becoming irreplaceable by understanding “risk vs. moat” in today’s AI-driven workplace. Frida shares her background coaching senior leaders and explains how quickly career strategy is changing, urging professionals to replace fear with curiosity and keep a constant pulse on trends. She describes how to identify a personal moat by noticing moments when your insights make others pause and by asking trusted senior leaders for feedback. They discuss how executives are using AI to offload generic work and augment strategy, and Frida advises laid-off professionals to stop job searching like it’s 2019 and instead use disciplined networking and intel-gathering. They also explore trusting intuition when considering consulting or entrepreneurship and close with Frida’s advice to put yourself in rooms with leaders you respect.

Timepstamps:
00:24 Welcome and Setup
01:30 Meet Frida Thomas
04:37 Moat Versus Risk
08:51 Finding Your Moat
14:12 Leaders Facing AI
18:21 Job Search Reset
24:07 Entrepreneurial Pivot
29:25 Myths and Mindset
30:19 Key Takeaways
32:38 Bonus Question
33:55 Where to Follow Frida
35:04 Closing Thanks

Connect with Freda:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/freda-l-thomas-mba-careercoach/
https://consultflt.com
https://www.linkedin.com/learning/creating-a-compelling-job-description/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Top Voice Podcast, where each week I sit down with leading voices in business, leadership, and transformation to unpack the issues that matter most. Together, we explore fresh insights, bold ideas, and real-world stories from people shaping how we think about change, culture, and what's possible. Hello and welcome to the Top Voice podcast. It is Monday, March 30th, and I'm super excited to be here with my dear friend and fellow Top Voice Frida Thomas. We were just having a great conversation before we went live. We almost forgot to hit the button because we were already getting into it about how to make yourself really irreplaceable. And this this all started from a post that you did, I think, way back in November. And it's about how to what's a risk versus a moat? What's a risk to your career versus what is something to use to protect yourself? And so, Frida, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a second here to tell your story and talk about that post because I'm excited to talk about what's different. Uh before we do that, for those of you that are tuning in live, we love to know where you're tuning in from. Please do leave a question or a comment. We'd love to take those in the course of the conversation. And for those of you listening on your favorite podcast platform, please be sure to subscribe. It's the best way to support the show. Uh Frida, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do and why your thinking has evolved so much since you wrote that famous post that started this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Well, first of all, I want to just thank you, Michael, for the opportunity to be here with you. What a privilege to share this platform with a fellow Top Voice. Yay! Shout out to Top Voices on LinkedIn. A little bit about me, and please check me out on LinkedIn, Frida L. Thomas. Believe it or not, there's more than one Frida Thomas. Um, and send me a connection request. Love meeting people. Just let me know where you learned about me, a bit about my background. I am a dual-credentialed coach, certified through the International Coaching Federation as the most recognized entity. And also I studied coaching at IPEC. I hold the master's in business. I've been a coach for the past 10 years. I'm also a certified professional resume writer, and day-to-day I coach executives who realize they have achieved a lot and they know that there's more. And so I lean into much of the knowledge that I have gleaned working with that demographic over the years, they've helped me take on the shingles of being a quasi-expert. I don't think anybody is an expert until they die and they've spent 10,000 hours like the Beatles doing something, and I'm far from that. Um, but having the experience of coaching and working with the former Sarovsky Chief Operating Officer, General Counsel to Intellectual Property at GE, uh, the deputy assistant chief general counsel at the Department of Energy has afforded me an opportunity to lean into some of the best practices from organizations at that level to inform those who are looking to reach that level of success to know what that looks like, right? So that's what I do on a day-to-day basis. I love my work, Michael. I wake up in the morning and I'm like, today is gonna be great. Um, and I think it's such a blessing to have work that feeds your soul and at the same time serves humanity because that's super important to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Absolutely, absolutely. And I don't think there's ever been a more critical time to be coaching senior executives through this transition, this transformation, this revolution that we're we're going through. So let's start, Frida, with your this concept of a risk versus a moat and a post that you did, which is kind of what I used to build this episode. Sure. Before we got on and went live, you were talking just about reflecting on six months ago and maybe what's different now.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah, and I had shared with you in the earlier email that I think I wrote that post. It was actually a newsletter somewhere around November, end of November, going into December 2025. We're talking about four and a half months ago.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

And when I look back at that content, Michael, it's like the dinosaur age. I mean, literally, right? What I was thinking, the perspective that I had in terms of how professionals need to start positioning themselves, it's archaic already. Right. And so what that says to me, and I'd love for the audience, anyone who's dialing in, to give their perspective as well, if they'd like to share. What that says to me is as professionals across the divide, all of us need to have our finger on the pulse. And that means I'm reading, I'm conversing, I'm learning, I'm translating this information to determine how what moat means is what is defensible in what I do versus someone who does something similar or parallel to me. And for me, that's a real challenge. And I love challenges because challenges mean that I'm learning. And what I would invite anyone who's listening to us, if you're feeling resistant or fearful about this technology, try to switch fear to being inquisitive, because that's what this direction that this world is going to be moving into is going to require. And if we're more inquisitive versus resistant, we're going to probably enjoy it more. And we're probably going to uncover things that we would not uncover were we to approach it as it's something I have to do, I don't like it. There's a probability it's going to replace me or require more of me. And I think for a lot of people, that's a real concern, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Um, this is gonna force me to do something and show up in my life and in my work that moves far beyond where I am right now. And it's understandable that people would be resistant to that, but guess what? It's happening. We may as well get on the bus, get comfortable, figure out the tools, the people, the information and resources that are going to make that bus ride a little bit more comfortable for us. And if you are just feeling overwhelmed, you can reach out to a professional executive coach, a mentor, sponsor, you know, if you have a sponsor at work, talk to people. Um, because there is a wealth and vast amount of information out there to help you glean what is true from what you might be telling yourself that is an untruth.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite phrases, you can either be on the bus or you can be under the bus. So you might as well stop and get a ticket and jump on. Uh you said a lot in there that I want to unpack. Let's start first with the concept of a moat and what is defensible. How do I, without going maybe into all of the steps of the process, how do I know what is my defensible, unique skill from someone else? How do I find that? How does someone listening maybe look inward or get feedback to understand what might be truly unique to them if they have a question about that?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Sure, I love this question, Michael. And I would offer when you're at your team meetings, think about the patterns where you offered some insight and you realize the room paused. Right? Whenever you've shared something of value, and people are like, that's really interesting. I hadn't thought about that. That's a moat, right? And Michael, I would offer to you when you recently you mentioned to me you had to travel for um a client engagement. That's why we're going live on Monday instead of tomorrow. Yep. Right. More than likely that it was because of a moat. Because people don't ask you to get on a plane and come somewhere if it's information they can figure out on their own. Right. Right. Um, so that is the defensible part of it. And what I would offer to people is think about the things that are unique to you that decor that require ownership in a way that technology can't own it without you prompting it. Right. Um, it might be negotiation at a level that is critical to your organization, that insider perspective where GPTs are trained for generic negotiation, right? However, you have insider perspective about how to negotiate for your particular organization or institution. Got so that's what moat would look like.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

One of the things that's coming up for me when you say that, uh, there's a phrase that I use, maybe it's not quite the same, but it I think it has the same concept, which is what I call high-leverage moments, which is my clients can get a PowerPoint deck from anyone. What they're looking for is somebody who has the recognition to see in this moment, maybe in a workshop and a conversation and a team meeting, what's the highest leverage activity or question or insight or connection that can be offered in that moment that moves somebody else or a team forward? And I always use that phrase because I think I also come from a sports background. And so if you think about athletes and the greatest of all time, sure, we look at longevity, but we think about moments. We think about the high-leverage moments, we think about the game-winning home runs, the the three-pointers to win the games, the touchdown passes, and that sort of thing. And so I think that's what you're describing is for people to kind of find their what gives you the ability to execute a high-leverage moment. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

And I would also add to that, Michael, ask. Right? Go talk to your colleagues, talk to your supervisor, look at the evaluations you've had over the years, and look at what do you see a pattern and the positive feedback you're getting? Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, there is uh asking is a is a lost art that doesn't get used enough.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yes, absolutely. My aunt taught me early on the more you ask, the greater your bounty.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Right. I I always tell people that first of all, there's two parts to the asking. You have to ask, and then you need to listen. And a lot of times we ask people and we think the answer is different than what we thought it would be, and so we don't take value from that experience, but uh it's such a great reminder that the people around us see us differently than we see ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Sure. And I would also add a caveat to that. Ask the people with the greatest seniority with the level of leadership under their tool belt that you respect. Because you could go off asking people their opinion, and they've been on a job two months and they're an expert, you know, in their own minds, right? Um, so you want to have some level of discernment about who you're going to go to. That's why I say to people, you can come to me for a 45-minute session and just pontificate, right? And have somebody say, Well, did you think about this? Have you thought about this? Just to give you perspective and get you out of your own head about what you perceive a situation is going to be like versus the realities based on others' experience.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah. So let's let's go back to your comment about stepping into the moment and helping executives. Before we went live, I was mentioning to you that I saw an article this weekend about the Walmart CEO who is stepping down and giving way to a younger, more upstart, maybe tech savvy leader because this former CEO felt like he wasn't positioned to take advantage of the AI moment that he was feeling behind. And of course, that's just one story. It's a high-profile story. But I think a lot of senior leaders are feeling this tension of I know I need to do more. I'm not quite prepared. Maybe there's some that are, some that are sitting on the sidelines. What are you seeing in terms of the overall population? Is there is there an even distribution? Is there a small percentage of people that are really leaning in? What does that what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, well, among my clients, they are definitely leaning in because if they're not leaving, leaning in, their companies are not competitive. And at that level, if you're not being smart and savvy, you're not gonna last, right? People are easily replaceable. And what I've found is for whatever reason, I seem to be attracting these attorneys, um, the general counsels.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

I mean, it's an it is it is an industry that is. I mean, if there's AIs coming for anybody, it's coming for the lawyers. I mean, there's that's been quite a conversation that I've seen quite a bit of.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Right. And they are on the precipice of understanding the importance of embracing it and helping their teens figure out how to embrace it in a way that allows their company and their units, their business units, to be more competitive. And what that looks like oftentimes is they're literally moving off out of the organization those generic creating a PowerPoint presentation, generic PowerPoints, right? Um any kind of KPI basic performance, they're passing that off to Chat GPT, um, trying to figure out what next steps in terms of strategy might be that are very, very linear and follow a pattern based on what the company has done before, looking at news trends, um, looking at insights in terms of AI entities that are informing what the trends are, and then taking all of that data and asking GPTs to give them some level of strategy and process that the organization might want to follow in the next five to 10 years, and then triaging that. So there's one thing to use AI to have greater levels of intelligence around that, and it's another thing to take that information and say, okay, we've got this data. What are the probabilities if we run this through scenarios that X is gonna happen? And then how do we position ourselves to be more competitive internally? Because that's where it all starts, right, Michael?

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Um, and then how do we take that competitive mindset to the marketplace?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

We we actually have a uh we have an episode coming up about this very topic with lawyers. So uh Colin Levy is going to be joining us and talking about this because it is a really interesting. I mean, the legal profession is by definition an intellectual property exercise. And there's rules, there's precedents, there's cases, all that stuff. So it's gonna be a fascinating conversation. What I love about what you're saying is it's it's augmenting the analytical process that I might be using independently. Uh, and that's a big skill that I know a lot of people are are sort of struggling with, which leads me to I would love to know from your perspective for let's say an executive that's maybe been laid off and their company's downsized using AI as the as the excuse for that. That happens more and more these days, and they're a 50-year-plus individual, they're maybe at you know the back 10 years of their career, they're finding themselves in this moment, maybe trying to figure out where to go next. Do I apply for a regular job? Do I do something different? What are you seeing in people that are on that side of the transition, if at all, if those are kind of clients that you're working with as well?

SPEAKER_00 18:57

It's a very real scenario. Um while I'm not working with that particular demographic right now, I have worked with that demographic and I hear it uh from my colleagues that this is real and this is true. And what I would say to anyone is please, please, please don't approach looking for work as if we're in the year 2019 because we're not. And you're gonna frustrate the heck out of yourself if you just make a pretty resume and drop it into a job board. Um, one of my colleagues told me recently she was gonna refer someone to me who worked in the federal government and who was laid off because of Doge, and she had applied to 500 jobs.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

And my initial thought, Michael, and I want to I'm gonna get back to your question, but I think this is important for the audience. My initial thought was, and I don't know what her pattern was, but if you're doing something repetitive and you're not getting results, what what would prompt you to keep doing that? Yeah, yeah, and that's what I mean about you cannot act like 2026 is 2019. And let's go back because that was just right at the precipice of the pandemic. So that was a whole thing in and of itself, and so my direction is A please stop thinking like I just applied to a job and somebody's gonna like me. B, the most important thing is I ask people to think about where they are in their search and I place it in buckets. Crawl, walk, run. Because some people are literally on fire. If they don't get a job, they've run out of their savings. So your behavior should dictate what you're doing. Yeah, and out of that, so first of all, don't do the 2018-19 thing. Second thing, determine where you are. Do you need to crawl? You got plenty of time. Are you gonna walk through this or do you need to run? And with that approach, what I would offer to people is whether it's crawl, walk, or run, you're gonna find a job by networking. And what I want to advise people is I'm not talking about meetups, I'm talking about a disciplined approach where you set a goal every week. I'm gonna have Informal virtual coffee chats with 10 decision makers at the organizations I'd like to work with. And then you may want to go to GPT and figure out strategic linear myopic questions. You want to ask them about what's going on with hiring with them in the next three to six months.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

What direction are they taking? What kind of projects are they working on? That will give you a perspective, unlike anyone that's out there dropping their resume into a job board. Because at that point, you're collecting intel, and that intel can help inform where you are positioned and what you need to do in order to secure the kind of work that the marketplace requires right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

There's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying from a scientific perspective. And it turns out that movement creates motivation. It's a, it's a it's a cliche that's that comes from the world of neuroscience where this idea that if we're if we're creating momentum through our actions, we're reaching out, we're having meetings, we're having conversations, that is is in and of itself a very self-motivating, self-reinforcing set of actions. Whereas if I drop my resume in a job board and now I'm just waiting. I'm waiting for something to happen. I feel less agency, I feel less control. And the truth is you still may have a couple hundred conversations, but to your point, you're collecting information that makes those conversations additive as opposed to just dropping another line in a water somewhere with another thousands and thousands of other poles that people are also fishing in the same pond. So I actually had a conversation with my nephew yesterday, and he is uh he got a job somewhere, and I asked him where he got the job, and he said he got it on Indeed. And I said, Does that still work? I didn't even think that was a real thing, but he's it's doing a different kind of job, but it was just sort of funny. So um I wanna I want to talk a little bit about the decision to maybe transition your career yourself. I know a lot of people, if they're out of work looking or they're maybe at the crest of their career, finding themselves retiring early, or maybe they've decided to do something else. How do I know when it's time to maybe stop looking for a corporate job and embrace maybe the entrepreneurial moment that a lot of people are making the transition into? Do you do you see that? Do you work with people having that conversation?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah, I love this question, Michael. And I have a real example, the former CEO, Sarovsky, whom I worked with, um, wherein the pandemic pushed her out, she'd been with them for over two decades. She had an internal knowing that it was time for her to not do this level of work. And what I would say to people, trust your instincts. Because we have this vast tool called intuition, and we don't use it. Yeah, we ignore that small voice that's saying I've been doing this for 15 years. Where's this gonna head? Is there anything else? Am I tired of getting up and having someone else dictate my life? I've been doing this for 32 years. Where's the horizon? Yeah, and it's people have those voices going round and around in their head and act like uh, you know, I'm just gonna keep going until my ticker fades. I and I don't know what that because I'm no longer an employee, so I don't know what that looks like. But for that client, she said it was really a relief because she had collected enough money that she was not at risk, and she had an opportunity to say, What does the rest of my life look like? I get to choose.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

What a concept. And she decided at that stage she didn't want a regular nine to five. She needed to work. She's like, I'm just gonna do consulting work until I retire.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I think there's a the I as you were telling that story, I was reminded of a conversation of an episode we had last year with Mark Finick. We we talked about the title of it was The Rise of the Expert Economy. And we all approach AI, well, many people approach AI with a lot of fear and a lot of uncertainty and trepidation, understandably so, as you've talked about. But in some ways, it's never been a better time to be an independent. And maybe if I connected the dots to your risk versus moat, if you can identify your moat, you can build a business around it that doesn't require a corporate entity because you've got all the tools available now in ways that we didn't before.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Right. And let's lean into the example of this woman who is the former CEO. She left that and in five months during the pandemic, got a consulting git with Fresh Direct in the pandemic.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Right? So talk about a pivot, right, from a marquee jewelry brand to a food delivery service in a pandemic. They were salivating to have someone like her.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

And from there, she just she thought that was gonna. We stay in touch. She's a lovely person. She's she was really disheartened because she thought that was gonna be her sunset position, but it turned out not. But she's just so resourceful and so savvy. She's probably had like five consulting jobs, and it's all leaning into what you just said, Michael. She is so proficient at what she's learned that people literally, companies literally like, how much do you want?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah, it helps when you're the former CEO of something, but I would say that everyone has the opportunity. If you can identify your unique skill, as you talked about, and the thing that makes you special, the thing that gives you a high leverage moment, you've got the ability, whether you were a former CEO or not, to find clients, people, companies, teams that need what you do. And it's it's really, I think, in some ways, if you can get past the fear to use your word, it's never been a better time to experiment and try and grow in new ways.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I would say that's so true. And I want to say that she was a former COO, maybe my chief operated, and I would also lean into this for anyone else. The former COO in her mid-50s, the former COO with no college education. Wow. So in people who are listening who think you've got to have a certain pedigree, and Ursula Barnes, who is the former CEO of Xerox, started as a temp.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

I know that story. I know that well. I know that story well.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, so let's blow these myths out of the water. Yeah, that you've got to have X, Y, Z. Yeah. Um, you've got to have dogged, willful determination, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah, and that doesn't come with a resume, that comes from inside. So, so Frida, we we are we've this conversation, they always go so quick. So I want to give you a chance before we ask you your bonus question. We've talked about a lot in this conversation. I would say, what are what are two to three things that you want the listener to take away from this conversation of of making yourself irreplaceable in the age of emerging AI? What would you say to people?

SPEAKER_00 30:42

So it felt like we were just talking about being making yourself irreplaceable, period. I love it. Right? And perhaps that's a big ticket for anyone listening, and then think about that within the context of making yourself irreplaceable in the age of AI. Uh, you can certainly sign up for my newsletter, go back and read that newsletter what I talk about, uh, most moat versus risk, and triage your current job description and ask AI where you might be at risk. And I would offer to anyone to think about not the task, but the responsibilities that are at risk. Because believe me, if it hasn't already happened, your top tier in your organization, they're thinking about it right now.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

So you can get ahead of that, that would be one of the things that I would offer. If you've been laid off and it's happening, you know, in record numbers, still, unfortunately, it's very sad to say. Be encouraged because the people that I've coached and counseled who wanted to move on to new positions, who have followed these precipice that I've named, within six months, they found new work. But this it was it becomes their job, right? And they attack it in that way. And I would say please steer yourself away from approaching trying to find new employment as if it's business as usual, because it is not.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah, yeah. What a great set of recommendations. Uh and Frida, as you know, we have a closing tradition on this podcast, which I stole from another one that I really love, which is a bonus question left for you by the last guest. And it's just a fun way to wrap these conversations and draw a thread through it. Uh, your question for this week is what is one career or professional skill that you wish you had learned earlier in your career and why?

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Hmm. I'm not one for regrets, but let me see. That doesn't surprise me, by the way, but I love it.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah, I live in the moment. Um, I mean, literally, I'd have to make up something because nothing else.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

That's okay. That's okay. That's okay too.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah, nothing comes to mind. Oh, I know, put myself in the room where the people I respect most reside.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

That is a great piece of advice. And I think we're all trying to get into different rooms in different ways. And I think that that is uh I I share your your uh reflection of that skill. I I wish I had done some similar things like that as well. What a what a great piece of advice.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Frida, where can everyone find more about you? Follow you, read your newsletter, sign up for your newsletter, all those good things.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

So I'm gonna be sharing with you the direct link to the newsletter, and people can go there and sign up. But please follow me at Frida, F-R-E-D-A-L Thomas, M B A on LinkedIn. I've taken up residency there. Um, if I could buy real estate there, I would. Um, please send me a connection request. Let me know where you learned about me because I get hundreds, and I want to be discerning about the people that I connect with.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

We will put all that in the show notes and make sure that everyone has the ability to sign up for that. Uh Frida, thank you so much for so much practical advice and I think timeless wisdom that helped us think bigger. And your comment about don't just make yourself irreplaceable for AI, make yourself irreplaceable one of the best pieces of advice we've ever come across on this show. So I really do want to thank you personally and on behalf of the community of folks that that tune into this. So thank you again. Thank you for tuning in today. Thank you for listening on your favorite podcast platform. If you did, please again subscribe. It's the best way to support the show. And we'll see you next week on the Top Voice podcast. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

All right, my pleasure. Bye bye.