Overcoming the PMO and Project Manager Stereotype with Fola Alabi

Michael welcomes project and strategy leader Fola Alabi to discuss stereotypes about project managers and PMOs and why many are seen as process-heavy status reporters rather than value creators. Fola shares her 20+ year career across government, finance, energy, and other sectors, emphasizing the persistent gap between strategy and execution and the need for project leaders to build business acumen, domain knowledge, and executive-level language to drive measurable value. They explore why PMOs are often built and cut, how PMOs can reposition as strategic partners in prioritization and value realization, and how AI can automate basic reporting while increasing the need for specialized, context-driven leadership. Fola closes with practical guidance: lead with business impact, align to strategy, offer options—not just problems—and execute for benefits realized.

Timestamps:
00:24  Welcome
01:29  Meet Fola Alabi
03:35  From Strategy to Execution
05:07  PM Stereotypes Explained
07:13  Evolving the PM Skillset
09:44  Domain Knowledge Matters
13:46  Specialize or Stay Broad
16:15  Value Language of Business
18:19  PMO Pendulum and Purpose
21:19  PMO Visibility Crisis
22:45  Strategic Project Intelligence
24:33  From Cost Center to Investment
25:37  When You Need a PMO
25:58  Numbers Tell the Story
28:00  Strategy Execution Value
30:13  AI and the PM Future
33:48  Level Up Your Impact
36:19  Ritualized Avoidance Systems
39:06  Where to Follow Fola
40:09  Final Wrap

Connect with Fola:
https://folaalabi.com
https://strategicprojectleader.com
https://www.thepmoleader.com/fola-alabi
https://www.instagram.com/folaFalabi/
https://x.com/folaFAlabi
https://www.youtube.com/c/FolaAlabi
https://www.facebook.com/FolaFAlabi/
https://www.clubhouse.com/@folafalabi


Michael's National Workforce Study on Change Management:
https://www.michaeljlopez.coach/research

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Top Voice Podcast, where each week I sit down with leading voices in business, leadership, and transformation to unpack the issues that matter most. Together, we explore fresh insights, bold ideas, and real-world stories from people shaping how we think about change, culture, and what's possible. Hello and welcome to the Top Voice podcast. It is April 28th, and I'm really excited to have Fola Alabi on with us today to talk about the PMO project manager stereotype. You may be wondering why this is such an important conversation, but as someone who's worked in that world, I can tell you that project managers, there's a lot of them. They're everywhere. And I think there's some stereotypes and some hurdles and obstacles that they all go through and that they all learn about. And I don't think there's anyone more qualified to walk us through this conversation than Fola. Uh Fola, before we do that, I just want to encourage everyone who's listening and watching live. Please do leave a question or a comment. We love to take those in the conversation. Let us know where you're tuning in from. We love to see people from around the world dialing in. And for those of you that might be listening on your favorite podcast platform, please be sure to subscribe. It's the best way to support the show. Fola, we've been waiting for this conversation for some time. So before we jump in, tell us who you are and tell us what you do and why the project management world is just so uh important and something you're so passionate about.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

First off, I want to say thank you so much, Michael, for the opportunity to actually come in and share my love passion. You know, so when I think about the whole talk on project management and leadership, for me, it goes beyond just, you know, another career. It is something I actually fell in love with and it has now become a lifestyle for me. But let me dial back a little bit. The journey into project management and strategy leadership started pretty much about two decades ago. It's actually scary when I think about it because my first role as a PM was about 21 years ago for the Department for Transport. And I've spent the last two decades within the space of projects, because then it was at the Department for Transport in London, England. And I led the Transformation Project. And then fast forward, then I had the opportunity to actually work for the financial services. I worked for the New York Soccer Exchange. I moved to North America. I worked for the banks, I worked for the energy industry as well. But what was interesting and fascinating was the fact that I realized that we project management, we actually turning ideas into something tangible. And the first conversation that this actually ever came up with was actually with my husband. At the time we just dated, he was going ahead to do his what we call the Prince Two exam. It's called the Project in a Controlled Environment. And then I was like, what exactly is this? And then, you know, he went through projects and the phases and all that. I'm like, I can see a lot of it in the work that I already do today. And when I went deeper, I felt I could even use this in my day-to-day life. And so when I married all of the stuff that it was actually teaching me, I saw that there was a lot of value in that. And then I said I had to do a pivot. So I landed my first role, and since then it's been history. But what's been fascinating in my journey is the fact that I found that there was so much the organizations were leaving on the table. So we think about project management, we think, oh, yes, we have an IT transformation, we have, you know, we have like a new initiative, we want to go into new markets, and then we're like, let's get a project team together and let's execute on that. Yes, that's great. But however, I found that there was a gap between strategy and execution. The people who went ahead and designed this fancy stuff we wanted to deliver, and the people actually went out to execute on it. And so for the last, at least the last decade, I have now been focused on beyond just executing on projects about how we can close that gap, how we can increase value for the organization, because this is a multi-billion dollar gap. And I believe that as soon as we dive much into this, we're gonna unfold a lot of it. So my award into project mine is a love story, and it's one that I love to share everywhere I speak globally on this particular topic, and I help organizations accelerate value and project professionals as well, pretty much break the ceiling that currently exists between them and the C-suite.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah, what a it, it's there's so much to talk about here. And when we first met, I work in the world of change. I am also a project manager. I do have my certification. I took the test and everything. And we talked about everything is a project. And there's so much similarity between what you do and what I do. We we instantly hit it off in this discussion about closing the gap. Let's let's start to get into that and talk about, I think, maybe the maybe the hard part first, which is the stereotype. And I think a lot of this happens in my world of change, particularly with project managers. The stereotype is they don't add a lot of value. They just come in and make me do more work. They've got all their dashboards, they walk around with a clipboard and ask me, how's it going? Tell me your status and all of that sort of stuff. And so let's start with that because I think it is a it's stereotyped for a reason, but it's also a bit of a misnomer. So let's peel back that onion first. And how did that stereotype form? And how do we start to maybe get at that a little bit differently?

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Okay. First of all, we need to understand the fact that when we think about project management in its natural form, it's about turning ideas into something tangible, tangible outcome. And so when we think about, for instance, like the PMI of this world, the Project Management Institute, they have actually set a body of knowledge that helps us understand how to do that. And so we go through the phases like initiating, planning, executing, and controlling, monitoring, controlling, and closing of a project. So that's like a typical of how a project actually flows through from ideation, through to close. And over the years, just the same way we think about a medical doctor, you're like, okay, I think I have pain in my shoulders, right? So I go to a doctor, he's gonna do a diagnosis, he's gonna give me prescription, and I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna be fine. But however, when we then look at it, if I then say, I want to go to um, I have a problem with um maybe something a little bit complex, I'm not gonna say I'm just gonna go to a doctor, then I want to go to a specialized surgeon, right? And so think about it that way, where you go and you study general medicine, you know how to give general diagnosis. But if you want to then specialize and create greater value at times, you say, I want to go in for an extra couple of years and study the neuroscience piece about the brain. And so I want to do, I want to become a brain surgeon, or I want to become one to specialize in on how we deal with movement, whatever that is. And so project management has been set up as the base general medicine to execute on projects. But now, when we look at the way technology has actually evolved, we look at the fast place to talk about VUCA, right? Complexity and all that. We now need to start specializing. We need to start looking for skill set now that can help us deal with these actual diagnoses. And so the stereotype of current exists is that people are like, no, we have a box. Project managers are just there. We come in, we're ensure that the project teams are delivering what needs to be delivered, and that's exactly it. But we're like, no, the domain and the world we live in today has shifted the landscape. So we cannot just sit back and say, that's enough. We need to start specializing, for instance. That's what my company actually does. We're called the strategic project leader. We are now helping project professionals understand the business acumen, how technology actually impacts, how intelligence actually helps us accelerate value, because now we cannot just use the skill set that we have had from before to deal with the complexities that currently exist today. And so the stereotype that exists is just the fact that when you think about a business, you're like, no, I have a PM, stay in that particular box, execute, and off you go. But we're trying to say that we cannot just do that because there's data that proves that the I think it's about people say between 35 to 55 percent of products are actually not delivering the value that it was actually intended to. So why is that happening? We cannot do exactly the same thing and expect a different result. Do we agree? Yeah, yeah. And so, right, and so if that's the case, we need to start thinking about how we can evolve differently. We need to like a root cause analysis and find out what exactly are the reasons behind that. So the stereotype has to be broken because, again, the professionals as well have put themselves in that box. Yeah, and the executives kind of see them as this is exactly where you should actually be, and that's it. But we are pushing and working with you know organizations, working with institutions, working with the PMs themselves to say, this is something you need to work on. We're gonna be working from the executive side. We're also gonna be working with the PMs as well, so they can actually work strategically, collaborating. But it obviously means it has to be a shift in competence, it has to be a shift in the mindset, there has to be a shift in the business as well, overall. And that's the foundation of my company and also my doctorate research.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, yeah. You said something important there, I think it's really that's really critical, which is the understanding the domain. I think one of the one of the stereotypes that you touched on is process over domain, which is project managers learn the five phases of a project. They learn all of the different functional areas underneath there, stakeholder management, communication management, all of those different things.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

And I think people in the business feel like you don't understand the business. You understand the process. How do we start to get that gap closed? You mentioned it. How do we get project managers closer to the business and not just process experts?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

You know, I remember working into my first major technology transformation project, feeling like prepared. I'm like, yes, I can do it. Like I had all the certifications, like my templates, you know, the risk register, and you had to do like the stakeholder greet. All those things were great. However, there was like this tension sitting in a room with leaders who had been, you know, in the technology space for like decades. And then I found out that there was a problem. It wasn't about not knowing how to execute on project, but it was now about how exactly does understand technology and the space of the primary trans the transport industry was what was actually really missing for me. And so I remember there was a day uh one of the the tech guys came in and explained the problem that they were actually facing, and kind of everyone like turned in the room and wondered, like, what's Fogler gonna say? It was like two choices for me. It was like, do I kind of say no to Edright? We're gonna take this offline and deal with it. Or was it a case of I had to say someone I was actually in line with the technology? And I said, wow, I have to really go off and understand what exactly we are really building here. And so for me, it was a learning, a teachable moment for me because I went off, I went, I got my ITEL certification, I went to know more about technology. I did like um one-on-one conversation with the technical team. Because really understand the domain is absolutely critical because there's some things that are not just black and white, where you have to pick between, you know, are we gonna take this film mode or what are the risks involved? But understand the impact based on different technologies helped me because I had to go back and understand the business. And that is one language that is also missing in the field of project management. And again, when you think about it, technology is different. Like when I worked within construction, the way you're gonna put um a pipe in the ground, you know, there are different phases to that. But again, understanding the terrain, right? When the ground is hard, if I want to put the pipe in, you need to just go in. And I had to go get some technical training. Although we were like, Oh, it's kind of engineering. I'm like, yes, I wanted to know more. And so you as a PM, you as even uh a mid-level professional, I mean it could be like at that mid-level, you want to start understanding what makes the business tick. What you know, what are we trying to do here? Why does it matter? Who actually our competition in all of this? What exactly should I be doing differently? Or what should we be thinking about? What are the risks? And all of this only comes with you understanding the domain that you actually sit in. But the thing is today is this hope. You can actually do, you can start building yourself today. It could be some training, it could be some mentorship, it could be just even asking more questions. But this is part of the things that will help you set you apart from every other person that sits around the table.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah, this happens in the world of change as well. And I think one of the frustrations that people in the business have is that the project managers, the change managers, they're they're always asking questions. They always have more questions about what's this, what's that, tell me this, tell me that? And there's a there's a perception of value there. So does that getting closer to the business? I think we've heard this in the HR world as well. HR business partners need to be better aligned and understand the business to create value. Should a project manager pick a domain and specialize in a domain, or should they be industry focused? What's your recommendation for people that find themselves maybe at this crossroads?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

The thing is, um, it's kind of like a catch 22 situation. Someone tells me, I am a jack of all trade, master of none, but better than a master of one. And someone says, you know, I am just gonna double down on one particular industry. But the truth is, when you look at the market today, we're in like um, we have this whole digital economy. I actually built something I call the hyper value economy, where we are focused on driving value and driving value fast, and we want it now. But we also know there's a case of where people are getting let go of work, you know, it's no longer the the the era of 10 years, 20 years in an organization, right? People build the role and in a year or so, they're probably let go, or something else comes up. And in this particular space, you're gonna ask yourself, like, how exactly can I ensure that I always stay relevant? Do I decide to focus in one lane? And if something then happens to me, how do I bounce back? And so for me, is I am actually very, very curious. So I've actually worked within the government, I've worked within technology, I've worked within the energy sector as well, and I've worked within like the pharmaceuticals and then the the medical line. But what I've always the thread that brings it all together every time is understanding business ideas, understanding the finance, understanding exactly what the executive actually really want. So there's a particular skill that helps me penetrate across different verticals. And if I go and say, I want to go get a construction degree or whatever tech, but especially for instance, you when you leverage the senior leadership side of it, the strategy and what comes in, and then you say, I also understand technology, you can bring that and use it as a leverage. And so even if you're going into pharmaceutical, if you're going into construction, you can say, I know, you know, how to turn ideas into results. And getting into the business side of the specifics is something I could obviously learn quickly. But ensuring that you can double down on the business side, because there's only one language that every organization actually understands is value. It's about how can you, you know, create value, something tangible for our shareholders. And so ensuring that visibility of impact comes first, value thinking, alignment of strategy, speaking the language of the boardroom, understanding the executive mind, you know, elevating your identity and overall executing for economic value. That's it. And then you can start layering on the technology knowledge specifically. And while you are there, you can raise your hand up and learn other things, just being curious. But I wouldn't say it's not a black and white answer to say, I want to just focus on one thing. But one thing is sure, you need to focus on the language of the business. So that way, even if you're called within a different industry or whatever, you can say, I can, you know, pick up the your strategic document, I can interpret what needs to be done, I can get a team to go ahead and deliver that it doesn't matter the sector to actually sit in. And that's my position. Well, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I really want to know, Michael. Well, I think it's I've always tried to simplify it down to two things that as a as a partner to the business in whatever shape or form that is, I think you have two opportunities to create value. One is to remove work from somebody else's plate so they don't have to do it, which gives them time and space to do other things. That's a source of value. The other is to give them insights to know what to do next that they don't have to find themselves, which means now they can go faster. And so if I can free up your time, remove work or help you know where to go next faster as a partner to the business, whether that's in project management, change, you're an HR, whatever it may be, any kind of functional discipline, for me, that's always the the path to take to figure out how to do that. And I think the challenge with business partnerships like that is we tend to focus on process. We know the steps, but we don't know the content. And you've shared that really, really well. Let's let's talk about this now from a bigger picture because I think we're getting into a conversation about project management offices because we've been talking about individuals.

unknown 18:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

And there's a there's a pendulum I've seen in my career that project management offices become really hot and really important, and teams stand them up. Business gets tight and they dismantle them and and send everyone away. Maybe they keep one or two people, businesses get hot, and now we need a transformation management office, not a project management office. That's a that's a different rose by another name. And then the business gets tight and those all get cut. Tell us tell us about that pendulum first, and then let's talk about why behind the the cutting in the building. But hey, is that a fair representation? And how have you seen that pendulum swing in your career focusing on this?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

First of all, for those who obviously are not aware, when we think about project management, it's the discipline that obviously helps organizations turn their goals into results. And when we think about the project, the PMO is actually it represents either the project management office, it could be a portfolio management office or program management office. So they're different main naming conventions. And out of the hat, a PMO is a discipline, or it's actually an organizational group that focuses on like the governance, the support to ensure that project management as a discipline is executed effectively. And so that could mean training and support for project managers, it could mean reporting on progress. That could also mean ensuring that the business understands what needs to happen and when. However, there are different tiers of the PMO. At times we have, you know, the basic, we have the controlling one, and we have the strategic PMO. However, depending on the level you actually see it within a PMO, a PMO could be seen as a bottleneck. Just as you said, where they feel, oh, they're kind of there to come and chase me for more reports. They're kind of there to say, how come this hasn't been done? We need to create all of this like dashboards. But what I've seen, because I've led multiple PMOs across different regions, you want to be seen as a support function. What I mean by support, I mean you're always there to help make, as Michael has said, make people's life easier. So when it comes to training, when it comes to stuff that needs to be reported on, you have a team of people who are there to support the delivery, which is the PMs who are running the projects to ensure they're actually more successful. Not to actually add on more work for them, no. But most importantly, that project management office group, which I never love to call the PMO, I love to call it a strategy realization group. Because they should be really there focused on helping organizations realize their strategic goals. And so if that means project, as you said, if that means transformation, if that means change, they become a group that sits right next to the executive team from strategy, prioritizing the projects, from you know, reporting and becoming a voice that elevates what's currently going on around the project group. Then at that particular point, they have a greater voice. And the issue of them having to disappear will actually be minimized. Because right now, when a CFO opens up his spreadsheet, when it pretty much is time for us to do, you know, cost savings, they're gonna say, you know, if a group needs to disappear tomorrow, who's gonna notice? If we get rid of finance, what's gonna happen to the business? Accounting. You know, the engineering group. The operations team. Who are actually there to make sure that the systems we're building actually functioning? You know, customer service and customer relation, who actually has to pick up our customer queries. Compliance. What does that think about the project management group? Like I think, oh, I think they just kind of do reports. We can get the PMs to kind of just do all of this for us. You know, in the meantime, we're gonna be fine because they have been positioned as more like that's reporting, like templates and stuff, rather than being seen as a strategic partner. And that's why I talk about strategic project intelligence. They have to bring strategic leadership, they have to bring project mastery, but they have to also connect intelligence, which brings decision making, they bring technology, all of it all coming together to help organizations make better decisions, execute on better projects, but also help ensure that those all of this convert to what was intended, the value gets generated. So there's an issue with positioning, there's an issue with perception, there's an issue with um visibility as well. And so when all of these things keep happening over and over, it's back to how project memory has actually been perceived and how the PMO or that reporting group have, you know, you know, been set up in the first place. And for those who are actually watching, you're probably wondering, you know, maybe I'm a PMO leader, I'm a PMO director, I'm wondering what do I do next? It means that you have to start having those conversations and making it different. You need to be seen now as a partner, walking with your group and say, okay, no, no, no. Before we for a project gets started, we want to be part of the conversation to even decide which project should we actually be going ahead with. And so this is part of the things that is like this ongoing problem that we keep seeing to say, why should Protoma just be a nice to have of a PMO rather than a must-have? Yeah. But onto you then you just say that, listen, if we're not there, you know, this is exactly what's gonna cost us. The risk is gonna be higher. We're gonna be, you know, we will probably maybe tread in an entirely wrong domain that we shouldn't have even been in the first place. And then we try and, you know, try and stitch up the stuff at the end of it where we spend so much money, there's a lot of song costs already, but we could have avoided it if we're probably part of a conversation at the start.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah. This is this goes back to the concept around being seen as a cost center or being seen as a as an investment. And every business has revenue generating elements, and every business has cost-absorbing elements. And and very few people question the different sources of revenue. There's obviously products, there's services, but revenue is pretty easy to see. The difference is what costs do we feel are valuable and our investments, and what costs do we feel are really just costs that we can sort of? So much of this, Fola, I've also seen is really a function of just maybe a leader or small set of leaders within the C-suite or business that has a belief in the value of project management as a discipline. And sometimes they don't. It's kind of a religious debate, maybe at times where somebody grew up in the world of projects, they know that it's important, so they fight for it. Maybe another team doesn't have someone like that and they don't push for that kind of a discipline. How do I know in an organization that I need a bigger project management uh execution structure like a PMO? How do I know, independent of an individual leader, how do how do I know is it size, is it scale, is it revenue? Is there something that tells me I need this now as a business leader?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, the thing is it's um if we just bring the numbers in front of us, first of all, what is the cost of status quo? So if you are maybe a vice president of um in tech, and then you go off and you see that at the start of the year you had, let's say, a budget of$100 million, and the goal was to create maybe an infrastructure that should generate a return of$250 million, okay, plus or minus. And when you do the math going backwards, you find out that$100 million never stays$100 million in the first place. At the start of the year, maybe you end up spending 200 million, double that cost. And when you then go back and do a retrospect, you find out maybe the value that was probably created maybe never even amounted to 100,000, 100 million, rather. That gives you the numbers already to say that we cannot stay as is, right? We already know that it's either a problem of we're not analyzing what's needed properly at first, we're not probably budgeting right, or we're not even addressing what truly matters to us as a business. There's also another layer. Is it that we don't have the right competence when it comes to the team who actually delivers that? So the numbers already speak to speak to it to say, how are we doing? Are we doing okay at the moment? And if you're already doing okay, then obviously there's nothing you need to do. But if there's actually any way we look at your your value stream from when strategy gets created to when the system or whatever it is gets gets built and when it actually gets um the benefits gets realized, if you can put a string and tie it off and say we started at X and by the end of it, we had X squared, okay. But if you cannot link that, you already know that there's actually something that's actually needed. It's kind of where our skills are actually fantastic. People who are competent beyond just projects and who also understand strategy can actually now come in and help you and say, how can we look at your overall setup? Are you even thinking about the right strategy in the first place? Have you got the right teams who are prioritizing this whole initiatives? Have you got the right delivery stream as well, executing on that? So I call this strategy, execution, and value realization. So we look at these three key pieces. How exactly can we then connect back? Because then you can always almost like a top 90-day or 180-day plan and say, okay, let's go back and review this and then reassess because we want to be able to create incremental vibe. Thank God for agile, right? Now we can say, let's test something. We're gonna go back to the drawing book and see if there's any improvement. Are the teams doing better? Is it a training issue? But you can already see where the gaps exist from the numbers. And if there is no gap, then you're fine, which I can almost bet because the data tells it to me, right? That I think Mackenzie said it, I think almost like 35% of organizers don't even achieve their benefits, even more than that, depending on the research you're looking at. And so even the ones that actually do get the product executed, the value which was was actually intended, was never materialized. So that you know creates that compounded effect. So it's it's almost black and white. There's always room to improve, and there's always room for people like my killer and myself to come and help your organization for sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

There's always room for that. We're almost a time full of this goes so quick. I have a couple little questions I want to ask, and then we'll we'll sort of wrap up here because I think you're also talking about, I think what I'm hearing is part of the value is learning how to ask better questions and having a perspective across the business about how these, how do projects line up? Are we on time? Are we behind? What are we spending? What's happening in terms of unintended consequences? How does it fit? So many businesses get busy with executing that they don't often step back. And I'm I'm I'm hearing you talk about that as a source of value for project managers, that they have a bit of a license to ask some of these bigger questions, which which now gets me to a question I want to kind of almost end with. Um in the world of AI now, where we have uh the ability to ask any question and get any answer. And because project management is such a process-driven discipline in a lot of ways, first of all, how how is AI influencing the world of project management? And I know that you you you you have a goal of elevating, I think, a million project professionals by 2030. So how does that all work together in your mind? Is AI making it easier to be a project manager? And if if so, how? And if not, why?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Hey, that's awesome. For me, there are two things. One is AIS actually made it even clearer that people need to come to Fola because it's no longer about project management as a basic piece. Remember when I said a doctor who just specialized in general medicine, and now we're talking about the world needs people and I'll specialize. So I want to help the top 1%. The people who are now ready to elevate and say, okay, there's actually more to this. People who want who see that they want to create greater value. AI has created almost like an awareness to say the basic things like reporting can easily be put in a system. We can automate some of these things. AI has actually seen that we can handle like scheduling, risk identification, like resource forecasting, you know, those progress, those dashboards, we can create those things faster. But what AI can ever understand is a business context. AI as a as a tool will not really understand all the other risks. You can fit it with more information, right? But when it comes to dealing with the business, talking to the customers, getting their feedback, the human side of it, they cannot understand that. And so I have now, you know, I have now been able to like make it 100% clear to say we need this capability upgrade now. So I call it almost like a reverse MBA, where I'm bringing the executive leaders now and the project professionals into one conversation to say there is a competence gap that is needed to be addressed right away. And so we talk about the business acumen, but the strategic piece and understanding the domain and the risk element as well that needs to be done together. These are conversations that need to be happening. And so AI has actually made my life even easier, has made it clear that, you know, it goes beyond just I want to be a PM, I want to create a risk register, I want to just do that. Understand the dynamics, you know. When I spoke speak about speaking the language of the business, right? AI cannot really help, but it can give you prompts, but the different context, like what is actually shifting, these are the times that we need to then sit up and say, if I want to be part of the one person that creates the change, I want to start building what I call strategic intelligence, where I understand strategy, I understand project, but I also understand the psychology around decision making. I understand how technology actually feeds into all of that so we can make better investment decisions, so we can actually better communicate value, so also we can better connect to what truly manages the business, create the feedback, come back, and really create value that actually sticks, right? You know, we say change that sticks for it to actually happen. It takes everyone coming together to actually do this. But AI has made my life much easier.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah, and so much of project management life is collecting data. And if we can do that easier and faster with AI, then it allows us to have the space to be a better partner to the business. So hopefully that's what's happening. Uh, Fola, we've talked about a lot here over the last 30 minutes. And for someone listening who maybe is thinking about a project management career or is in a project management career and they want to level up, what are what are two to three things they should take away from this conversation about their future and the future of this profession?

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Awesome. Thank you for that. I've got quick I've got good news. The fact is that project management, but with a strategic focus, it's never gonna go away. As long as you capitalize on the skills you've actually learned and then been ready to elevate. So think about what value. I'm gonna leave you with this. Value first thinking. So when you lead in anything, always lead with what business impact, not just activity. So think about revenue, think about the cost and the outcomes you're looking to create. The A there for me is about aligning to strategy. So, what does that mean? It means if whatever you're doing doesn't tie back to what moves the needle for the organization, then it's actually invincible. So connect everything to executive priorities. That's exactly where you're gonna get the greatest bag for your book. Two, lead with insights. Stop reporting, start what? Recommending options. So rather than saying that there's a problem, no, let's talk about these are the options, these are the trade-offs, these are the decisions we need to make. Give leaders options so they know that, yes, Michael's definitely prepared for that particular change. Now we know exactly what to do. You is about understanding the business. We talk about domain expertise. This builds credibility. Speak the language of the industry, where the time's going, what's coming next is about executing for economic value. So, whatever you do, success equals benefits realized, right? What are we delivering? How does it ensure that we create measurable value? So, whatever it is you're building, always think about value. And believe it or not, you're gonna be heading and becoming part of the 1% who will not just, you know, accelerate their careers, but become an asset that almost becomes indispensable.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah, that's one of the one of the best lines I've ever heard is stop reporting problems and start recommending solutions. I think that's just such a great piece of advice. Uh Folo, we also have a closing tradition on this podcast, which I stole from somewhere else, which is a question that has been left for you by the last guest for which you do not you for which you do not yet know. And they always line up nicely. And I'm excited to share this one with you. So, what's something in your field, project management, that looks like individual failure, but is actually the system working exactly as designed?

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Oh my goodness, this is the perfect one. So, probably what I told you is I said uh I wrote an article on um the hypervalue economy. And while I was doing my research on that particular um idea, there was something that I came up with. It's called ritualized avoidance. You know what that means? It's like an institutionalized pattern in which leadership governance, forums, and progress that what we actually done have actually already been optimized in a way that it's really not, it's it's not a case of it's what it was a leader setup, but it was one that has already been formed by the institution. I'll give you an example. The gap that exists between strategy and execution, it's really not one that I would say the executives are actually really to blame or the PMs. It's just a wall that has been set up a certain way. And so it's not like an individual's mistake to say like a PM is failing because, you know, I don't get to sit at a table, talk about strategy, but no, it's really not their fault. It's the way the system has been set up, it's the perception that's that's you know been there for like tens and thousands of years of redoing projects. And so from that individual's perspective, they are doing okay. But we as leaders, we as thought leaders, we're pushing the movement to say, we need to change this. We need to shift the way this profession is actually being seen as an individual, where we collectively start creating the change. And so, for executives, for instance, they're comfortable making decisions on the 24th floor, you know, and then they say we're gonna cascade that down. And that's the way the thing is set up. PMs are just in their box executing as well, but how are we gonna bring both people together? And that's one, you know, interesting piece that I'm actually pushing for to say our executives really leaders cognitively flexible, cognitively flexible, to, you know, be open to get feedback, be open to have open conversations with the people who are actually closer to the delivery of the work. So hopefully we can close the gap that exists, we can increase project success, we can create greater value. And so that's one area that I believe that it's one that it's not really an individual's fault, pretty much. It's just a system that has been created a certain way. But I am the change, and so I'm pushing for stuff where we can achieve that and we can normalize strategic collaboration and we can bring executives and protocol professionals on the same side of the table.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

I love it. I love it. What a great and inspiring way to wrap up. Fola, where can people who are listening or watching follow you, learn more, follow your work, and connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Oh, thank you. You can find me everywhere, Fola S. Alibi. That's F O L A Initial F and A L A B I. So you can connect with me on LinkedIn, you can connect with me pretty much everywhere, Instagram, YouTube as well. And I shared, you know, lots of content to actually help middle level managers and executives close a gap that exists between strategy and execution. And that's the ethos of my work. And so you're gonna benefit, you know, either way, because I've I believe it helps other organizations, but even you in your personal life as well. You can become a better leader, you can become a better parent, you can just create stuff, you know, that you are definitely gonna be happy with. So, yeah, connect with me and let me know you're on this podcast. All right. I want to know that you listen to um Austin Michael's podcast. I cannot wait to share and give you some feedback as well. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Fola. We'll we'll put all your links in the show notes as well. For those of you that tuned in today and watched this live, thank you for being a part of the show. And for those of you that were listening and listening on your favorite podcast platform, again, thanks for tuning in. Please be sure to subscribe. And a last final plug uh you'll see in the background here for those watching, a new study that we just released called Rethinking Change Management. It's a powerful piece of work that we've just released. A thousand workers surveyed across the United States about what they need when it comes to change. And the results are striking. They're they're shocking in a lot of ways, and we've been challenging the conventional wisdom of change management in the same way that you're challenging the conventional wisdom of project management. And so if you're interested in learning more about that study, please go to michaeljlopez.coach slash research. Thank you again, Fola, for being on the Top Voice Podcast. Thank you. And thank you all for tuning in today. We'll see you next week. Have a good one. Bye bye.