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11 | Persevering Through Years of Hardship w/ Margo & Joe Carl

• Episode 11

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Margo and Joe Carl were told their daughter had a very low chance of survival, after being born at 24 weeks. What followed was nearly 30 years of a deep, ongoing battle—walking through hardship, uncertainty, and countless moments of perseverance as parents.


But in the middle of that long season, God was there. He brought goodness out of the struggle in ways only He can. Their journey is one of holding tightly to Jesus when nothing made sense and seeing His faithfulness show up again and again.


I hope this conversation encourages you in whatever you’re walking through today. And as you listen, I also want you to notice how their testimony naturally unfolds as a story—one that builds faith and points back to God’s care. These are the kinds of stories we need to be sharing in our ministries, because they show the world who He is.


In this episode, you’ll hear:


  • What it was like for Margo and Joe to face their daughter’s low chance of survival
  • How they persevered through nearly three decades of struggle
  • Where they saw God bring unexpected goodness in the middle of hardship
  • Why stories like this matter for building faith and strengthening ministry


Their testimony is both an encouragement for your heart and an example of how powerful it can be to share stories of endurance and God’s faithfulness.


Similar Episodes: 


07 | Forgotten by God: Grief, Doubt, and Hope w/ Ben & Jessi Bock


03 | Pouring Out & Still Failing w/ Jackie Prevost



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lisa@irisstorytelling.com
https://irisstorytelling.com

know, as a mother, touches your heart like your child. And so watching her life and the struggles that she went through and the journey of her life and seeing God's hand upon her, bringing her through all of the different seasons of that journey and to where she is now. There's a place of confidence and rest in the fact that God, you've got her. You've always had her. And so there's that rest as a parent of knowing that once again, we place her in your hands and know that she's in your care. She's in God's hands and he's caring for her, always has and always will.(Upbeat Music) So thankful that you're here again. Hopefully again. Today I am bringing another story to life and where I've sat down and interviewed with Margo and Joe Carl. They're a beautiful couple. They love Jesus and they share about their story facing a hardship that kind of extended throughout years and years and years of their life where they had to really show a lot of perseverance and persistence to keep going, to keep hanging on to Jesus. It's wonderful. I hope it inspires you. And remember that these stories, while they are the purpose of them are to inspire you, encourage you to build your faith. They are also an example of the type of story that you could be sharing through your ministry. So you can maybe even listen to the episode twice. Once to just hear the story and let it inspire your heart and once to get some inspiration for the type of story that you could use in your ministry. This could be an impact story, for example. And as you listen, you can notice that it is done in a very intentional way where I will start off with the setup. What is happening at that time? What is going on? What year is it? That type of thing. Any context that will help give the information for the rest of the story. And then after the setup, it goes very quickly into the conflict. What was the main conflict that happened that started those main characters today? It's Margo and Jo. What was the conflict in their life that pushed them into a journey of trying to overcome this conflict? And then that journey has several points. So there's going to be major events. There's going to be hurdles. There's going to be ups and downs along the way in that journey until finally they reach some sort of resolution. Now this isn't always going to be tied up in a nice little bow. Sometimes the resolution is a slow thing, but it's kind of seeing the other side of it. For these stories specifically, it's seeing God's goodness and how their relationship with the Lord has changed because of everything that they've gone through. And then at the very end of the story, there's usually something powerful or encouraging to leave the listeners with. Well, welcome, Joe and Margo, to the Story Driven Ministry. So excited to talk with you today and hear your story. And for the listeners, Joe and Margo Carl. Am I saying that right? I met you guys because you are good friends with my mom and dad. And Joe likes to hunt with my dad. You guys hunt turkey or just turkey? That's awesome. Well, we'll just dive right into your story. And like we were talking about earlier, the whole reason for getting people on this podcast and sharing their stories, just to inspire other people to share their stories, you know, hard things that they faced and how that affected their relationship with the Lord. Whether it was on a good way or in a bad way or in a hard way, whatever that was. And just to really build other people's faith. I think stories are incredibly powerful in so many areas. And I'm so thankful. Really, I love when people are open to share their hard stuff. And so thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. So we'll start off with the kind of setup of the story. So tell me at the time, you know, what year is it? You know, what's going on in your day-to-day life? You could maybe even start like when you found out you were pregnant. You know what? Just go for it. Yeah. So it was in 1992. And Joe and I had learned that we were going to have a baby. We're very excited. All the feelings that you normally have when you first find out that you're pregnant. And there really wasn't any type of complication or I wasn't a high risk pregnancy at all. But then Jessica was born prematurely. She was born 16 weeks premature. So she was 24 weeks gestation. And she was born at a pound six ounces and was 12 inches long at the time of her birth. She was taken by C-section. So walk me through like that day. You know, you said there was no complications. You had no idea what was going on. So everything looked good right up until that point. Am I right? Okay. So what happened? Walk me through that. So I went to work actually that day and then began to feel just a little off. Wasn't feeling the best. And noticed just some things that began to happen that morning that I could tell that something wasn't quite right. And contacted the doctor's office and they had me come to the hospital there locally. And they said that there was amniotic fluid and that they were going to transport me to a hospital that had a neonatal intensive care unit. And so the hospital was about an hour and 15 minutes or so away from our town. And so went up there to that hospital and then Jessica was taken by C-section at that time. So like super fat. Everything happened really fast. What was going through your mind? Terror. Very afraid. Yes. Tell me more. Like I mean this is a huge shock. Like. Yeah. So yeah. Everything happened very quickly. It was very scary. You could tell by the looks on the doctor's face and the medical staff. There was a sense of urgency and that it was a serious situation. Didn't know there was a good chance that Jessica was not going to live. There was not a lot of hope given by any medical staff that she was going to make it. Joe flew from this place of work as fast as he could to get to the hospital. And so he was there. My parents were also there. Joe was in the delivery room at the time that Jessica was taken. And it was just very chaotic and very scary. And then after she was born and taken to the neonatal unit. We were taken in to see her and I just remember looking at one of the nurses and seeing her was very frightening because of all of the tubes and everything. And she was so tiny and there was so much equipment, medical equipment around her and so much medical attention being given to her at that time after her delivery. I remember looking at one of the nurses and crying at the time because it was so opposite of what you anticipated the day of delivery would look like. And I remember saying to her, "Am I supposed to be happy?" I didn't really know what I was supposed to be feeling to be quite honest because it was so unexpected and so opposite of what you thought the day was going to look like when your baby was born. Wow. So for just so that we can picture, I'm not really good at imagining numbers. So when you say one pound six ounces, what does that, can you compare that to like an object or something to kind of get an idea of how tiny she was? Her footprint was probably about three inches long. So three inches? Partly as far as figure out as my index finger and her arms were as big around as my pinky. And her footprint was the size of a thumbprint. I remember my sister-in-law saying that she put her thumb down on Jessica's footprint and she said it was about the size of her thumbprint. Wow. So super duper, duper tiny. Joe, what is going on in your mind? Just a whirlwind. Emotion. Why is this happening? And it made me realize just how fast light can turn on a dime. Scared. And were you okay, Margot, like health wise? Did they like clear you? Yes. So I was in the hospital for about four days and then after that was released. The first couple of weeks we were off of work and we were there at the hospital and we actually stayed at the hospital for a time. But then we had to return to work and the hospital was an hour and fifteen minutes away. So we went back to what normalcy there was. And so we would work all day and then we would drive an hour and fifteen minutes and spend what time we could with Jessica there and then Nickiou and then drive back home. And so we did that for sixteen weeks, for four months. I'm trying to imagine this situation and I don't know how, first of all, I would ever work during that situation, you know, and how I would be able to leave, you know, go home an hour plus away. So how how did you like manage that, you know? It was actually a necessity because Jessica was covered on my medical insurance. So we had to have medical insurance because we were facing, that was back in 1992, then I remember that the final tally on all of the medical expenses at that time was about a half million dollars. It was just under a half million dollars seven years ago. Well, going down that road is a whole different story. The medical system and all that, that's a different story. We won't go down that route today. OK, but she's so she's in the NICU. And what was happening? You know, what was what was how is that affecting you guys and your spiritual life, your relationship with the Lord? So at the time when Jessica was born, Joe and I were not serving the Lord. We had both grown up in the church, but through our teen years and young adult years, we were not in relationship with the Lord. But both of us knew because of that background that God was our only hope. And in that moment of crisis, when everything had rocked bottom, we turned to the Lord. And so there were many medical obstacles that came, you know, when the doctors would come to us and say we need this to happen or this is happening. And it's a critical moment. And we would go to the chapel there at the hospital and pray for God to perform that miracle and intervene on Jessica's behalf and to fix it, to fix what needed to be fixed so that she could live. So out of kind of that desperation, you don't know where else to look or what else to do that really brought you back to the Lord. And did you see him working through that situation? We saw him work through many situations because as the days went on, it seemed like especially those first couple of weeks, there were things that needed to happen. Medically, with a PDA valve behind her heart that needed to close and it wasn't closing. So they were administering the medication to make that valve close. But it was getting to the point that it was going to cause renal failure. So they didn't want to have that happen. And so they would have to perform a surgery. But to do a surgery when she was already in such a critical state was very risky. So the doctors basically said they were waiting for the good to outweigh the bad, but they really needed that valve to close. And so they did one more ultrasound before they were going to go in and do surgery. And we had prayed and asked God please to close that valve. And when they did the ultrasound, the valve had closed. And they didn't have to do the surgery. There were other obstacles as well. The brain bleed premature infants at the prematurity that she was at have waiting on the brain. And so they were monitoring that. Her eyes, they were monitoring the retinas because blindness was a very real possibility as well as deafness or cerebral palsy. The lungs were very, very premature. And so she had a collapsed lung a couple of different times. And her oxygen level on the ventilator, she was on a ventilator for about five weeks. And during that time, there were days that she ran at 100% oxygen. So there was just a lot happening medically where the Lord was very faithful to answer the prayers and intervene. And offer her things that she very well could not have come Hey, I want to pause for a quick second. If you've ever sat down to write a Ministry Update and thought, "What do I even say? I've got something for you." I created a free resource to help you write email updates that aren't vague, but clear and compelling. Inside you'll learn how to use the power of story to craft subject lines that get opened, a simple format to follow for every update, and practical ways to engage your donors so they feel connected and a part of what God is doing through your ministry. You can download the Ministry Update Guide for free at irastoretelling.com slash guide. That's irastoretelling.com slash guide. Go grab it and start writing effective updates with ease. that's really intense with how much, how many wrong things like happened. So as a mom to your first born, like what are some of the fears that you're facing during this time? The fears that she may not live. The fears that if she does live, what is her life going to look like? Is she going to have a life where she's thriving and growing and healthy? Or is she going to be severely handicapped in some way? The fear of, you know, I remember the fear of, was it my fault that she was born prematurely? Was there something I could have done differently in my pregnancy that she would have went full term? Just the fear of the unknown. The unknown is always a difficult thing in any situation. The unknown is a very scary thing. But God was very faithful, very merciful to Jo and I. And he met us where we were at. That's right where we were at. Yeah, me about how it affected your other family members. Well, my mom and dad, they were, they've always been very supportive parents to both my sister and I. And very much a part of our lives. And so they were there from the day that she was delivered until the day she left the hospital. They never missed one day. So what they would do is they would go up in the daytime when Jo and I were working, so that Jessica would have somebody there with her in the NICU, and tell Jo and I could make it up after work, and then they would leave and come on home. So my dad was not a Christian. When Jessica was born, my mom was. And my dad was in the hallway in the hospital, and he was praying, and he had an encounter. He knew that it was a spiritual thing. He sensed that, and he knew that because of the peace, the overwhelming peace that he sensed. But he didn't fully understand what was happening. But he knew enough to go to one of his friends, a Christian. Real quick, do you know like when this happened? Like what, where was he? What did it feel like for him? He was in the hospital visiting Jessica, but he was off by himself in a hallway area of the hospital by himself. And so it was when he was there that he began to feel this presence of peace, just an overwhelming feeling. And not fully understanding it though, he knew that it was something happening spiritually. And so he knew to go to his friend who was a Christian and ask him about it. And so he went to Rich and explained to him what this encounter was, what he felt, what he sensed. And as he explained it then to Rich, Rich explained to him that it was indeed a spiritual encounter, that it was the Holy Spirit in God's comfort and God's peace. And as a result of that, my dad came to the Lord and accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. And I've known him since that time. So much like bringing you and Joe and your dad back to a relationship with him in the matter of like weeks. Yes. Very quickly. Very quickly. And so I grew something so tragic. I love when God does that. And so I was like, thank you for at least bringing some good out of something so hard. And God's in the hard times. He's right there with us through the hard times. Yeah. So what happened next at some point? Right. Jessica came home. How many weeks was she in the hospital for just about the same time she was premature 16 weeks. She came home just a couple of days before her actual due date. And how big was she by this point? What did she gain anyway? OK. And there was a criteria. She had to weigh close to five pounds. They had to be able to hold their own body temperature and breathe on their own. So you bring her home and like you said before, you think everything's going to be OK now. But-- Yeah. It felt like there should be this wonderful relief. And there was of having her come home from the hospital and being at home. But it was very, very stressful because when she came home, she was on a monitor for her-- her heart would slow down and her breathing would stop and the alarm would go off. And then you'd have to go in and make sure she was OK and pinch her cheeks or nudge her to remember to start breathing again. And so the nights were very, very restless with that monitor. Feeding her was not a snuggle up in the rocking chair and feature baby type of event. Because when she was eating, she would forget to breathe. And so you'd have to watch her little face. You could see it. It would turn dusky and there would be a blue color around her lips. And so you'd remove the bottle and pinch her cheeks to help her to remember to start breathing again. Wow. She had a reflux which made feeding very difficult after she was done, very uncomfortable for her. And it took a while for that to be diagnosed. And So there was a lot of monitoring that went on. And there was always concern. I just remember that there was never too much of a just downtime, relax, we have a new baby. There was always an amount of concern of how is she developing and growing. Yeah. Did you ever feel like you were stolen that time that you were supposed to have? Absolutely, yes. Yes, and I'm very thankful because she shouldn't have lived. So there's that side of the thankfulness and gratefulness that she was alive and she was home with us. And at the time, I don't know that I really felt at that time we're being stolen because you're just caught up in the moment of doing what you have to do. Yeah. And making sure that your child's okay and getting the care that she needs. But it was later on then that, or if you're around other mothers that are talking about their baby's milestones, rolling over or crawling or walking and sharing and there's just that joy and that happiness. And then reflecting back and thinking that those times where she's not where she needs to be or she's delayed developmentally. And so there wasn't, yeah, an answer to your question, there were times where I felt like that was stolen from us. For three to four years after she was born, if I saw a birth scene on TV, I would just, I would cry. Because I just felt like I didn't get to experience that. There's a joy with a child coming into the world. Yeah. Ours was absolutely terror, terror when she was in the world. And it just, yeah, I did. I cried for about three years every time I saw it. I just tear up. I wanted that for us. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Something you look forward to your, well, a lot of times your whole life, right, of having your own kids and experiencing that joy. And here you are, your day, every single day is high intensity. Just trying to make sure your daughter survives. gosh, I'm sorry that you had to go through so much intensity when you should have had that joy, you know, and at least some, some peace and some rest too. That's really hard. It was just, just the thought of it. Yeah. Just thought of another child. Forget about it. She is facing a lot of stuff, you know, but she is growing. She is, you know, surviving. Tell me, you know, kind of what what happens. So we get through those those infancy years and up to the toddler years and she is she did grow and she did thrive. She did amazing things and she was ready for preschool then. So she went to a preschool program again for children who were high risk for developmental delays. So then the whole education part of it came in. And so there was then all of the monitoring of that and how far she was behind or how she was doing with that. I mean, she she did the best that she could. She had some amazing teachers. We watched God put many people in her life, the speech therapists and physical therapists and teachers all through her schooling years that just ministered to her. she was growing and thriving. But educationally, we came to a place when she was about 12 years old that we knew that she was going to need some additional help that the school system that she was in was just simply not able to provide what she needed. And so we found a school here in Missouri for her to attend and we traveled here. It was a private school very especially for developmentally delayed developmentally delayed children And it was a blessing and I have no doubt that it's because of God and the door that he opened in for him to help us even find that place and have the financial provision that we needed for her to be able to attend that private school that they helped her get as far along as she needed to be. Because we also watched through that journey that God works through people and he anoints people. He works through them and he gives them giftings and talents, educational therapy, all of that that he works through them to minister to people in need too. So we saw both the supernatural and the natural working together. And that's why Jessica was able to to continue to grow and succeed. And she went through that school from age 12 until her senior year. At that time, she transferred to a local high school and again, teachers and counselors that just came alongside and helped prepare her. And she got through her senior year and graduated from high school. Tell me about that. I know that was a big moment for you. Okay. Okay. I don't want her to go to public school and he just the way he does lovingly said she needs to go to public schools. I was like, all right, I relented. Like I had any choice. I read it and she it was the best thing that she could have in her. Why do you say that? She got tough skin because everything was always panthergent. Everything was really gentle and she I mean, she ran into some kids that were not nicer. They were not nice to her at all. And she come home and she'd talk about it. And I said, yes, it's just this is the way kids are, you know, and she made it. Yeah. She made it. So what was that day seeing her graduate? So her senior graduation was it's one of my favorite memories throughout my entire life. You because all of those years from toddler starting at preschool up to senior year, they were they were stressful years. Just wondering just always monitoring monitoring where she's at. And and that senior graduation, I just remember sitting there and it was just like a weight. I had so much joy that day watching her walk down with her robe and her cap and she did it. She worked so hard. She worked so hard. And we always told her just do your best. Just do your best. And she gave it her all and she made it. And it was a great day. That's amazing. But that's not the end of her story, right? Because you were told things right from counselors and stuff. What was that that they told you? Yeah. So even through Rivendale and then into Republic High School her senior year, the teachers, the counselors there never really painted a bright picture of Jessica living independently and being able to support herself. And so we didn't know even though at that time when she graduated whether or not she would be able to do that. then she went to Bible school over in Oklahoma and she there was able to show in a safe environment because she had a roommate and she was living on campus there at school. But she was able to get a taste of independent living, of learning, putting into practice, paying bills, getting groceries, getting to my classes on time. She even worked a little part time job there for a while while she went to school and just navigating life on her own without mom and dad being right there. And so she began to show in that environment that you know what, she she will be able to live independently on her own. And so that was going really well. And then in January of 2018, she called us from the school not feeling well. And we went over there and she was taken to the hospital and she was diagnosed with a disease. It's an autoimmune disorder called gillion bar. Some people pronounce it he and beret. But it was then at that time that that is a disease, an autoimmune disorder that causes paralysis. And so she was paralyzed from her feet up until her hip area and then from the torso and chest area were free of it. But then her arms and her face, her her face was droopy. And so she was paralyzed. And so she was in the hospital in Oklahoma for 11 days. And then she was going to need long term inpatient care to be able to learn to walk again. Yeah. And like to this point, you've been through a lot. You know, you've seen her kind of overcome these obstacles. You know, she graduates high school and now she's in Bible college. And what did that how did that affect you? That news that she's now has this disease and is paralyzed. I was angry. I was angry for a year. Extremely angry. What what was your first reaction? Like what tell me how you heard about it and what you thought? Just shock. And it's like, well, this will just be here a few days. I think this will be here for just a week or two and she'll get better. It didn't get better. It got worse. She got better one for a day. She was able to walk 120 steps down the hallway. And the next day she could walk 30. I mean, it just didn't make any sense. You know, we had. She's walking. We had a lot of hope. And then it just went downhill from there. And she had to learn how to walk again. And we had to give her thick foods because she couldn't have anything too liquidy because it would end up on her. Her one side. It's like she's like she had a stroke. It was hurt damage. And it was rough. So a year is a long time to be angry. Did you just was it just like I'm going to be angry until she's better or who were you angry at? You know what? Talk me through that. Because as a father, if I could take that on myself, I would and I'm a man and I want to fix things if there's something broke. I want to fix it. That's a man's natural to me. It's a natural thing that God gave us as a head of the household. Something broke. We're going to fix it. I couldn't fix it. It was very frustrating. Everything that she went through as a child, as an infant to watch this whole disaster of GBS come in her life. I was furious. I was like, this is not right. But I never blamed God because I knew I knew it did not come from God. So it was kind of like this. You know, she's been through so much already. Why can't she just get a break? As I saw her get better, I wasn't. I wasn't. I realized that God had his hand on her. That was a big thing. I knew God had his hand on her as horrible as the situation was. I guess it just went away. Not overnight. It's just, I was angry. But I'm not mad anymore. I'm very thankful. So after a year, she got better. And then what happened after that? So she went back to finish school. Yeah. She went back to school when she had leg braces on. She had learned to walk. She went from the wheelchair to the walker to the leg braces. Went back with the leg braces on and finished school and graduated. And you know what's interesting too is the night that Jessica was taken to the emergency room. To be, we didn't have a diagnosis, complete diagnosis. They were actually getting ready to do a spinal tap that they needed to do. And she looked at me and she said, "I will go back to school and finish." And she did. She did. And so she finished and graduated. So how, looking back, how do you see God's goodness come through in so much hardship? I see God's faithfulness. I see his mercy. And when I think of the very beginning when Jessica was born, and Jo and I had no more to do with God or anything to do with being in relationship with him. But yet when we reigned to him, he was there for us. And then I see his faithfulness all through the journey of Jessica's life, through the good times, the celebratory times, through the hard times, that he was constant. Through the uncertainties and the not knowing, just of placing our trust in him, because he's the only one that we could really put our trust in. We didn't have any other hope. And so turning to him, I don't know why bad things happen. You know, that's an age old question, why terrible things happen. But the one thing I do know, and one thing I can always count on, no matter what happens, no matter what the circumstances, is that God is faithful, and that any circumstance does not determine whether God is good or God is bad. You know, all of the emotion that we go through, and why some people receive miracles, and why some people don't receive miracles, I don't have the answer to that. But I do know that God is faithful, and he'll never leave Jo or I or Jessica or anyone else who places their trust in him. He'll never leave or forsake them. He's always there, that's a promise. So, Jessica has thrived, she is living independently and has been living independently on her own. She works a full time job. She is very active and has a wonderful social life. She drives. That's amazing. She is very strong in her faith and loves the Lord. And she's a blessing. She touches people's lives. You know, the people that know her will often comment then about that Jessica is such a beautiful young lady. Jessica is such a blessing. She's a special young lady. So she has an impact in the lives of people around her, for sure. How does it feel to kind of witness her thriving in life? Jessica's been an astonishment. She really has. She has just blossomed. And where she really, I think when she really took off is when she graduated from high school and when she graduated third year at Rhema. Because she came out of there knowing who she was in Christ, what Christ had done for her, all the healing that he had done. And she loves him. And she reflects his grace and his goodness. She really does. You had mentioned, Margaux, something that I would love for you to say and kind of dive into again. This... that you can rest that God's got her. You know? You know, as a mother, nothing touches your heart like your child. And so watching her life and the struggles that she went through and the journey of her life. And seeing God's hand upon her, bringing her through all of the different seasons of that journey. And to where she is now. There's a place of confidence and rest in the fact that God, you've got her. You've always had her. Her hand's always been upon her. And you are her father, you are her friend, you are faithful to her, watching her, protecting her, delivering her, providing for her, giving her everything that she needs above and beyond what I can give her. Because there were things I couldn't give her or do for her that only God could do. And so there's that rest as a parent of knowing that once again we place her in your hands and know that she's in your care. She's in God's hands and he's caring for her. Always has and always will. Yeah. That brings a lot of peace, right? It brings a lot of peace. It's so cool. you were to speak to other parents or just other people who are kind of in the middle of it, right? Who are kind of going through a tragedy, something unexpected, something really hard. What wisdom, what encouragement can you share with them? If I was to be able to speak with parents that are going through a hard time with a child, unexpected things that happen along the way is number one. I would want to say I'm very sorry that dreams have not been realized and that expectations have not been met. And that in some form or fashion what you had expected and dreamed for has not come to pass at this point in time. But I would also want to encourage those parents that whatever is happening, no matter the emotions, because there is a vast amount of different emotions that every individual can feel. And no emotion is right or wrong. It's very real to you. And to, instead of that tragedy, it's very easy for that tragedy to bring you to a place that you don't want to run to God. But I would just encourage that God knows exactly where you're at and he loves you. And amidst disbelief, shock, anger, rage, bitterness, any other things you might be feeling about what's happened, is to take those to God and openly share those with God and allow him to come in and be a part of that with you and to walk through that with you every step of the way. And not to separate yourself from him and to surround yourself with people who will support you and love you and that you can talk with openly and freely and come alongside you on the journey because God will send special people into your life to minister to you and to the needs that you have as a parent emotionally walking through that struggle. And allow him to be a part of that with you. Yeah. I think it's amazing, like the testament to you guys, what just holding on to the Lord through all of that. You know, I mean, first child, your newly parents, all those wonderful expectations and the hopes that you had just completely gone. And instead, you're in the fire for such a long time. Day to day, it's intense and you're caring for your daughter, but you're not letting go of the Lord. And even though things got better and then they got worse again and they got better and they got worse and there are many, many years, so many years of continuous perseverance. That's a huge testament to you guys. You just imagine Jessica and I mean, you do imagine the impact that she has and just her life just reflects the goodness of God and how many people that can impact and just like you guys being faithful to the Lord is why that happened. You guys just yeah, it's amazing. So the man who led me to Christ the first time when I was 18, his name is Richard Enright. He was an ex-marine, fought in Vietnam, but he heard from the spirit of God and he was evangelist. And he looked at me one day and he said,"The Holy Spirit just told me your daughter is going to touch a lot of lives." Wow. Wow. That's amazing. Thank you guys so much for being open and sharing your story, the hard parts and the good parts and so grateful for you guys. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. I hope that story inspired you and encouraged you as much as it did for me. I think it's so incredible the perseverance that Margot and Jo had to keep going. I mean to have a miracle baby, which she is such a miracle. But the fear of your own child, you're not sure if they'll live, how long they'll live, if they will be able to thrive, live independently. All of these fears that they faced for years, for years, it's not a one time thing that happened in their life. They have lived for, it's been I think 30 some years of walking through this intense time of caring for their child and trying to help them survive and thrive. And I mean, it's just amazing. Their diligence is just inspiring and amazing. And they held on to Jesus so tight for that whole duration. And the fact, I mean, at the beginning of the story, the fact that something so tragic could bring both Margot and Jo and Margot's dad back to Christ or to Christ for the first time to have a personal relationship with him. I mean, that's like an amazing example of how God uses, can work through tragedies to bring something beautiful. And it's so wonderful.