Episode 43 - Former DNR Agent - Ken Simmons!

Contintuing to knock down barriers at Mostly Legal! A huge privilege to welcome a friend and former DNR Officer Ken Simmons. Ken has a lot of interesting stories that make for great conversations pieces. Hope you enjoy a peak inside the inner workings of the law men!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I mean she is letting me have everything. I don't know who you think you are. Some young fucking bit of badge out of here to blankety blank this, that, and other Just to show you like the absurdity of it. He looks over and he goes, So what you do for a living? Yeah, there's a handcuffing technique. You kind of grab the thumb like speed cuff and you grab it, you click it on.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

All right, time to pull up a chair. It's time to uh feel like your turkey tags, put a plug in your gun, because it's time for mostly legal. We have got a great episode uh in line for you coming up. We're very, very excited about it. We've invited somebody here who has written more tickets than Bubba has paid. We're about to hear from the other side of the law. We've had people wanting us to have somebody on from the DNR to have a game board on for some time, and it's a little bit harder to round one of these guys up than you would think. And tonight we have done just that for our mostly legal listeners, and we're we're pumped up. Uh, this guy has uh seen things in the woods you probably won't can't believe, won't even imagine. And he spent years sorting through the chaos at boat ramps, at duck holes, and deer camps. And tonight we're gonna get to hear some wonderful stories. Uh, if we seem a little bit nervous, it's just because uh he's here, and so we're just trying to make sure we have honored the statute of limitations.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Completely comfortable, just for the record. Okay, completely comfortable. Very comfortable. I mean, you don't have anything, any skeletons in the closet, you're good. I can understand y'all being nervous. I'm bookshot. We're all good.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

The guilty fleas with no man pursued. There you go. That's what they say. Um, Scott, we're gonna have you introduce our good uh and a fine guest in just a moment, but I want to also turn it over to you to give a shout out to our listener of the week and then introduce our guest, and we're gonna get started with what's gonna be an exciting episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Yep, our listener of the week. Um, and you know, we've broken a lot of ground with our last uh few episodes being with the ladies, uh the young ladies that we had uh most recently. And I think this is not only we have a new DNR agent uh on the scene, or an old DNR agent on the scene tonight, but I want to give uh a big shout out to another friend of mine that I grew up with. Uh this is Elizabeth and Guy Johnson. Uh Elizabeth is formerly Elizabeth Moses of Sumter. Uh Marion, one of your best friends growing up.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

One of my very best friends. Let me some Marion.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Uh Elizabeth and her husband Guy uh have been uh friends of ours. Uh we've um bred some dogs together and uh told a lot of stories and laughed about uh taking kids hunting. And they've been listening to the podcast. And matter of fact, Elizabeth made a comment the other day maybe maybe if I do this, I can get listener of the week. And I said, Hey, we can make that happen. Um you know a guy. Yeah, that's right. Um it's easy. So uh Elizabeth and guy, we appreciate y'all uh listening and you know don't forget to tell your buddies about it and um you know keep giving us feedback and input and uh and sharing with who you know might enjoy it. Uh it's always good to hear from our listeners and to hear about uh the stories that resonate with them. So we're thankful for that. Um you want to go ahead and introduce our guests?

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Get right into it. I know there's a lot of people anxious to get into some of these stories and to see how we're gonna interact with this guy, so jump in.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Yeah, so uh Ken Simmons is our guest tonight, and Ken is uh retired game warden, was with the DNR for 28 years, um, and he did everything from you know, I think he retired, he told us a little while ago as a captain. Uh so he he was in administration and leadership, but he started off uh in the diving uh area, and he'll tell us more about that and correct any mistakes I make. But um he's got a sweet wife, uh house full of girls, similar to me, and so he's gonna tell us a little bit about uh himself first, um, but then we're gonna dive into some of these stories, maybe pun intended, um, about how you know you've seen what you've seen. Kim, we're really glad you're here. We appreciate you being willing to come on. And uh, you know, you asked us as we began before we started recording, what what can we talk about and what can't we talk about? And really that's all up to you. So uh you let us know what makes sense from your perspective uh when it comes to sharing what you can share. But um we're glad to have you. Welcome. Tell us a little bit about your family and what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Thank you. Yeah, um well, like I said, I uh retired from DNR a few years back. I had 28 years in law enforcement. Um I'm originally from Hampton County, a little town called Varnville. And uh I worked my first 10 years DNR there, you know, born and raised and grew up. Um met my wife, Dee Dee, beautiful, beautiful lady, and uh we have three daughters, and uh I have a uh son-in-law and a grandson now, too. So uh very blessed on uh yeah, the Lord has definitely blessed me with a wonderful family. Are you working now? Yes, I do uh some work for an independent insurance company, but it's uh I'm home based, so that was one of the big things I liked after retiring is being at home. So I hear you.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

So you know you know Bubba's an insurance gear.

SPEAKER_04 5:26

I heard that Titan is the word I like to use.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

I've been around it for a long time. I don't know that any of those words really fit, but I've been in insurance business a long time, a long time.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Um, all right. So tell us about how you got into the DNR. You know, one thing I didn't mention about you is that you're a Clemson grad. Uh Bubba loves that. Stephen and I won't hold that against you. Uh but you I mean you started off on this track a long time ago, uh wildlife management major at Clemson. You graduated, you were out, you know, a year or so and got a job in the low country uh with the DNR. Tell us about where you started out, what you began doing, and what was that beginning processes like?

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah, so uh you know, after going to uh through wildlife biology at Clemson and I graduated and and I uh applied to every state in the southeast as a for biologist, and they said, Yeah, if you don't have a master's, uh we can put you on a tractor, plow, plow on a food plot. And I'm like, I'm not going back to school and getting a master's. So uh that kind of put that out the window and uh you know just got a job actually with the tax assessor's office in in Hampton. And during that time, the captain of of what back then was districts, district three, which was five counties in the low country, uh the captain at the time, he and my dad were good friends, grew up together, and he swung by the office one day, my dad's office, and just said, Hey, I gotta open a cone up in Hampton. If you think Ken's interested, uh you know, tell him to put in and we'll see what happens. So I put in for it, and here I am, you know, went through the process, got the job. Uh it's a different hiring process now than what it was then. Right. But um and uh worked the first 10 years of my career in the low country, down in in Hampton County, and uh you know, which was primarily you know more woods related, out outdoor, uh, you know, down in the swamps and stuff. And after about 10 years, uh transferred up to Lexington, more lake-oriented. So my my field work did a 180. I went from the woods to the water.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Okay, so you started in the woods, and then you came to the water.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Pretty much. I mean, we had a little bit of water down in Hampton, you know, on the Savannah River and Salkahatchie Swamp, you know, but you know, my idea of boating then was a you know 14-foot John boat with a 15 on the back, you know. That was that was my boating. Um, and then you know, come up here and uh get a big whaler with a 225 on the back and you know had to learn new boating.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Yeah. Well, I know our listeners are dying to hear some stories, but I think setting some uh groundwork, you know, things they might be thinking about. What was the training like? Like how long did it take you to get from just hired to okay, now I'm you know, I'm carrying a weapon, I'm I'm on patrol, I'm answering calls.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Like what how the hiring process for law enforcement, you you start off and you got to fill out the application, and there are certain parameters, and they'll weed out. I mean, you you'll be surprised the people that aren't qualified who will put in for the job. Well, like Bubba put in one time, so I I understand. There you go. I mean so they'll they'll pull those out and you know, toss those to the side, and then everyone else is brought up and you go through a physical test. You pass out a swim test, you pass that, you go through a panel, uh panel interview. Um you answer a series of questions uh before a swim test? You have a swim test. I mean the couple smoke that's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Go ahead. I'm feeling good, right? I'm feeling qualified right now. So you've done the physical stuff.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

Swim test, not a float test, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

You passed all that, the uh the physical, the panel interview, which is a series of same everyone gets the same questions and the panel scores you. Uh-huh. And then after a certain score, those it's just slowly narrowing down the field till they get to a point where they can take who's left and you get to a one-on-one interview with with the colonel at the time. Um when I got hired, his name was uh Bill Chastain. So I interviewed with with Bill and got the job. Then you go to the police academy. And I think when I was there it was 16 weeks, I think. And uh it's it's you think of a game warden but it's you do everything, all law enforcement. You know, every sheriff's deputy, town police, you all go through the exact same thing. Then after you graduate, then I went into wildlife basic. So that's when they take all the game wardens that graduated, and then now you focus on uh you know boats and tracking and you know, four-wheelers and all that kind of good stuff, you know, night hunting scenarios and pretty wild. Yeah. And then you get through all that, you're in the field, you go to your assigned area, and then you work with a seasoned officer for a while, and then they can finally kind of turn you loose. Turn you loose. 25 years total.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

I did 28. 28 years in the green jeans fraternity. That's pretty strong. Now I got a question. I know that a lot of our listeners are dying to know. Your green jeans were like bootcut, straight, skinny jeans.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

They started off as uh Briar pants and uh then they transitioned over to the cargo pants.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

So that's a big question, and and and and this is kind of we we all our guests get asked the same question. Yeah. And so I know that there was a life prior to being a game warden that you probably spent some time in the outdoors hunting and fishing and stuff. And we always like to know, you know, sometimes they say like the best way like they catch crooks is to hire crooks. And so, like, the best way to catch like renegades is to hire renegades. Did you ever have a run in like with the game warden than Hampton County or anything at the back in your fishing distance?

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Oh, so we established quickly what's out of bounds and what's what's in bounds.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

No, um, no, I never had any any bad run-ins or anything like that. Uh, I knew most of them. Um, you know, I I I grew up hunting and fishing. Uh my dad, you know, really got me into it, but you know, we were meat eaters and fishermen, not, you know, oh, I want to go get the trophy. It was like, no, we got to put a deer in the freezer. Um, so that's how I grew up. Uh dog driving, I know y'all have talked about that a lot. That's that's what I did. We had dogs, my dad, a pack of dogs. So I my deer hunting was all about dog hunting for the longest time. Then I got into still hunting a little bit later. But dog hunting was the that was my that was my go-to. You're singing Bubba's song. Absolutely 100%. Yeah, you know, for way before all the GPS and trackers. It was like you you would you would hear the tone of the dog like, oh, that's all Willie, he jumped him and uh wasn't uh you know, looking on a screen trying to figure out where they were.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Dogs would come back back then without tracking collar and everything else. You got I mean no right around it. Some of the best knights would be building a fire at the cross power lines in a hunting club and just sitting there and you blow the horn in the wild and just kind of hang out. But that's yeah, that was what I did growing up. That was a good time.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Well, Bubba he he escaped into some stories there, but the takeaway I heard from that answer was he didn't have any bad run-ins with law enforcement.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

And he knew them. I knew them pretty well. And he said we were the we were meat eaters, though, like a lot of people have made a lot of excuses. Well, I had to shoot that nigga within that field, and I wasn't really mind, but I needed something to eat. So, I mean, I heard something about it, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

And and the the the um the processor doesn't see the meat eaters there, so they don't have any way of knowing how much kill.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

You know, the tag doesn't a long time before the tag system was what's the old saying it's only illegal if you get caught, right? So nothing illegal.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

This is fear of law. You know, and you well, you you're very well familiar. That is a thick book. We say it a lot of times it's got a lot of words in it.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Title 50, if you want to know exact. There you go. In the code of laws, it's Title 50, and it's a very thick book.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

Uh, Ken, my sister, I'll tell a quick story on her that's that's gonna lead into a question. Uh, she was she has a heavy foot like Scott and I do. We inherited it from our father. We drive a little too fast, and she was driving one time on a two-lane road in North Carolina. She's the only person I know that's ever passed a cop on a two-lane road and immediately got pulled over for it. And uh, excuse was she thought he was a fireman because it was a red and white uh stripes on the car. And he was so taken aback with her story that he ended up giving her a warning and letting her go. I don't think Scott and I would have gotten away with the warning, but that was us. But um, have you ever had such a ridiculous story that you ended up giving somebody a warning just because you couldn't believe they had the audacity or the bad luck or the whatever to find themselves in that kind of situation?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Well the audacity or the funny story that comes to mind with that, but it wasn't a warning. Fella did go to jail. He did go to jail. But uh this was this was a little a little uh was his name Daniel Andrews? Possibly it happened not too far, right down the road on Amex Ferry. The uh the director of DNR at the time, John Frampton, he going home one evening and and he's in his car, and he's he's a he had a commission and he's behind a vehicle and it's just you know swerving all over the road. And he knew I lived in Timberlake down at the end. He stops this guy, and uh, you know, the guy's drunk, as can be, and calls me and say, Yeah, I'll come out there. And so I go out there and go to you know test the guy, and he wouldn't perform any test. And he was obviously very much impaired, so I put him in the truck, and we're heading around all the way around to the uh Lexington County Detention Center, and he's in handcuffs and he's uh you know just riding along. You know, sometimes you know it's kind of awkward conversations because you just place the guy on a rest, but now you're transporting him, and we got a ride, got a 30-minute ride to make, and uh you know, so just to show you like the absurdity of it, he looks over at me and he goes, So what you do for a living? And I look down and said, I'm an accountant, and I just do this on the weekends.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Good stuff. What do you do for a week? Uh a living. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

Yeah, that's a good answer to my question. But I started that question with a warning, and maybe I should I should ask this question. Have you ever given just a warning?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Oh, yes, yes, yeah. Lots. Lot more warnings than uh tickets. I mean, yeah, you know, 10 to 1 reaches.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Despite the reputation, they're still doing good there.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah, letting people off get on this lap. And there have been lots of situations where probably someone may have deserved that ticket, but just honesty, yeah, straightforward, I'd write a warning. Goes a long way. Yeah, it does. You know, it's the people that would lie and try to get out of something that you already knew they're they're the ones that that's gonna get it.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Um, Ken, uh you you give a lot of warnings, no doubt. Uh and I'm certain like that guy that was inebriated, there's no warning to give there. You got to enforce the law for the safety of everybody. Um is there just a off-the-chain, crazy, late night boat ramp story that you run into that our listeners wouldn't hardly believe what people have tried to do or what that story they've told you once they did get caught? Yeah, those boat ramps are boat ramps or something.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

I mean, they're you know the first one, the first thing that that uh that comes to mind, this is when I was down in Hampton on a weeknight and uh got a call. You know, I'm just gonna say it was a Tuesday night, a night that no one should be out. And our only boat ramp on the Savannah River is called Stokes Bluff Landing. I mean, it's nothing. I mean, there's there aren't any houses, it's plantations down there. Like I can put the boat in at Stokes Bluff, go up river for uh you know 20, 30 miles and never even see a house. It's just Bostic Plantation, Webb Center, Plachola, Groton. I mean, all these big plantations down there. So shouldn't be too many people down there, especially on a you know Tuesday evening. So we get I get this call. Uh some teenagers, boat broke down and they're drifting, and their phone, this was back to probably during maybe a flip phone or bag phone day or something like that. And uh they they law either lost service or battery went dead, but we got a location where we thought they were. But regardless, they're downstream, it's a river. I mean, they're either on one side or the other. So parents, you know, I lived about 45 minutes from the landing, so I hooked up. I had a bass boat at the time, a Triton bass boat. And uh I go and call my partner. Um, he meets me at the boat ramp and kind of line the boat up to back down to leave. I mean, you know, to just you know get in and go. And while we're there, the parents show up, you know, and they're all worried. So I'm undoing the boat, and this other truck pulls up and he goes down and parks halfway into the uh boat ramp and half off of it. This is this is the middle of the night, it's probably I don't know, nine or ten o'clock. And this dude gets out and he walks down in the water and he just starts swimming. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And uh look at my buddy uh Cantrell, Mike Cantrell, who's he's no longer he he uh he retired from from the department as well. But uh I said Cantrell, go get that guy to move. I gotta put the boat in. So he walks down there and I'm you know unfastening everything and he comes walking back up and he goes, He's he's he's not moving, he's he's not getting out of there. Like, all right, so walked down there and was like, dude, you got to you got to get out. We got to put this boat in, we got to go. You know, I can charge you for swimming at a public boat ramp or parking your vehicle. I don't care. I don't I don't want to do that, I don't care about you. I just want you to move. I gotta go. And he, you know, he hems and haws, and I'm not doing it. And you know, he throws a bunch of four-letter words at us. And uh we finally have to, I think we might even wait it out there, and he saw we were serious, and uh we were you know kind of talking him down, and he finally agrees and like listen, I'm not, I still don't want to write you a ticket, I gotta go. He walks up to his truck, and we're beside him. And as soon as he uh opens the door, that you know, the dome light comes on. Cantrell's on the other side of the truck, and there's a shotgun and a big old buoy knife laying right there on the seat. And he goes, uh, Ken, the knife's right there. And by the time he reached in there, grabbed it, slung the case off, and said, You blankety blank, right, has a knife, and you know, combs. He didn't lunge at me to hurt, but he was definitely within in in the in the police academy, they teach you about the 21-foot rule. If you're within 21 foot, that guy can get you before you can get out to him. And we were definitely within 21 feet. So, but he presented it, so I immediately drew down. And then, you know, we're does there's a lot of yelling at that point. Drop it, drop it, drop it. And uh let me back up a little bit. That guy's kids had shown up at the boat ramp. Apparently, they were planning a family swim event or something. But yeah. Now, this guy's probably I think he might have been in his 40s, and these kids were maybe 20 or something like that. So they're yelling, Daddy, put it down, daddy, put it down, and we're definitely telling him to put it down. Yeah, and uh yeah, and uh, so he finally did, and you know, Tony, you know, put his hands on the back and went up there, and Cantrell's still kind of drawn down on him. I've holstered up, and uh, you know, there's a handcuffing technique and you know you kind of grab the thumbs like speed cuff, and you grab it, you click it on.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

So bubble.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

He knows he knows it. He should have done it.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

You don't just grab this hand right hand, okay? Just so you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

But uh you can kind of once you've done it, uh Enough, like when you click it and people want to jerk back and resist, you can take the thumb and you can angle it in, and it does not feel well, and people will kind of you know ease up. Well, when I did that, he didn't do anything, and I said, Oh, it's on, it's on. And he jerked, and then I jerked, and we went to the ground, and and Cantrel holstered up, and what we all three went to the ground and you know, melee. It was a melee, and he ended up in cuffs. And uh and then we had to wait and had to get the deputies to come and haul him off, and and then we could finally go and and uh go look for the kids. But that one incident, you're talking about just a crazy incident, that one incident ended up costing cantral, I think, a shoulder surgery, and we both had to get hepatitis checks for like a year because that guy had hepatitis something or other, and we had busted up knuckles. Sound like he had crazy titus. Yeah, great goodness.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah, must have been a Game Cop fan.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

100%. I think that was I think there wasn't Game Cop stickers on the bag.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

He did see them go cocks and everything on him. Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

All right, what about so backing up to uh you know after you're training and and you're you're like been riding with an officer underneath him, and now you're patrolling, you're on your own. Your first call or your first memory of having to be the man at the scene. Do you do you remember something like that that you're like, okay, well I'm I'm here now.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

I don't remember the very first one that I did by myself, but I remember my first night hunting case I made by myself. And I was, you know, I wanted to you know establish a reputation in the in my hometown, like Kenzie Game Board, and I wanna I want to have a good reputation, so I kind of went after the the known Game Board. I mean the known night hunter violator. Everybody knew that this particular guy, he's got a house full of trophies that he shoot shoots at night. Everybody knows it. It's like he's gonna be my first night hunt case.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

Because that that's against the law to shoot him at night? Yes, 100% against the law. Okay, I just want to be clear. Okay, just to clarify. Listen, it's just good to be clear.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Well, you know, it it I'm not married, no girlfriend or anything at the time, so I've got all the time in the world. I didn't care about time clocks and hours and nothing. It's like I'm going to catch this guy. So yeah, figured out where he lived, found a little hidey spot right down the road, backed my truck in there, took my little dove stool, walked out to the road right down from his driveway, and I just sat there and I'd wait. And just did this for you know a few, like, I don't know how many days and hours of doing it. But then finally one night at you know, 10, 11, 12 o'clock, I don't remember what time it was, but see that truck backing out, and I ran back and jumped in my truck and and uh had another guy, another officer who got hired on with me. He was in Allendale County, uh Larry Manuel. And this, I think this was Larry's first time working that situation with me. And uh he backed out and and uh we followed along, and by the time the light starts coming out the window, and I'm like, well, we got all we need. We lit him up, and sure enough, he's got the loaded 270 right there, and off to jail he went. So no.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Wow. So let's let's talk. So you cannot shine. I know. So this was back in the mid-90s. I know some things change. You can't shine with a good like if he had not had a weapon in the truck, would he have been clear at that point? I don't I knew there was some perfect land.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Okay. So I think at that point in time you could shine up till eleven o'clock at night. Um, this was after eleven, so he would have been, you know, charged anyway for that. But uh my probable cause was he was just shiny. So even if it was before eleven, I would have you know could have stopped him.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

The reason I'm asking is it's very possible. I used to hang around a little bit down in Allendale County. A good friend of mine, Stephen Odom, his father, and him they hunted down at Ivanhoe. Yeah. They were goodwill and blessing or whatever all over there. So um we used to ride around at night, like after we get through hunting and stuff, we'd go riding and shot. We didn't have not what rifles would be back at the cabin. We used to do a lot of shot because they was uh I it was unbelievable the amount of deer that were in the field back in those days. I mean, it was crazy how many deer and see hundreds of deer. Yeah, I mean, just like you could literally count a hundred in a field. Yeah. It was crazy back then. So I was just wondering, I was like, hmm, we could have got caught back in the day. But I just want to make sure, you know, I'm I'm a letter let her law.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

As long as you don't, you know, back then, before 11, you could shine as long as you didn't have a weapon in the vehicle.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

So what how what's different today? You can't shine at all?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

No. I've been out the loop now for a few years. So to the best of your recollection. Yeah, I think you can shine. Game zones matter too. Yeah. But as long as you have a vested interest in property. Okay. So it's not that's to keep it's it's not to prevent a landowner from shining his property to protect his cows or whatever it may be. So there are some there's some leeway of of of the shining now.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

But I can't go shine the mill. Like I'm not I can't go shine the mill or whatever. But like to, yeah. Okay. All right. Educating the masses out there, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:31

We want everybody to be legal as much as they can be.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

I see speaking of night on, I've always been interested by this because I watch these guys and I'm like, and I I I like the whatever, the Lone Star Law and all that kind of stuff, all these, all these game board shows, Louisiana law and stuff. I'll just watch them. And they set up these robot deer, and I'm watching these fools drive up there and they shine them, they shoot at them. I'm like, stupid of y'all, y'all. Come on, like, I mean, I know they look realistic and everything, but did y'all ever use the mechanical deer and that kind of stuff? Y'all catch some fools shooting at them? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah. Tell me a story.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Uh Delight. Uh a lot of it, you know, honestly, whenever we worked a lot of our night hunting, we didn't use the deer a whole lot because once they've shined, they've shined. I mean, I don't need the deer out there. They're they're looking for they don't have to shoot. As long as they shine, they got a gun in the truck, they have violated it. Correct. Yeah. The the robo deer always we found was better trying to catch the guy road hunting, you know, in the daytime, riding around, shooting down power lines and stuff like that. Um, it worked well for really good for that. Uh the robo deer.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

Yeah. So apparently shooting out of your car is also illegal.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Is that what I'm hearing? Only only on property that you don't have the legal right to.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

You know, remember John Smoke told us that he did not shoot on the he shot, he did not shoot off the public land, he shot on a private road. This is true. I remember that now.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

And he knew that because he was an attorney and he had the law.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

He presented himself as an attorney, okay?

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Uh we got a report of uh you know some people road hunting on this particular stretch of road, on and this guy calls it in. He's like, Man, they are just burning us up out here. You know, we're sitting in the tree stands and they'll be riding along and shooting and everything. So, all right, so uh my buddy uh Chip, uh Chip Allen, he is a retired game war. He and I were roommates through Clumpson, and uh he worked Allendale County and I was in Hampton, so uh Chip and I are very, very tight. So we set the that decoy up on that one particular fella's property. And uh, well, it wasn't on his property, our complainant, but we were on that stretch of road. But we weren't on his the the complainant's uh piece of property. We were on we set it up on another piece of property, but down the same road. And uh we're hidden in the woods, and sure enough, truck comes by, sees that deer out there, and oh rifle comes out the wind, and he shoots it. And it it was our complainant, the guy who had called us about making all the complaints, he was the one we caught doing it. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

That's pretty sad out there. That's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Yeah, that's that's one of the funny ones. But yeah, I mean, we've had everything from what did he say? Like, what did he have an excuse? Oh, he was his what did he say? Oh, he he his hat was in his hand and his chin was on his chest, and he couldn't say anything. Well, that was good. He was at least enough to have some shit. He just he was as embarrassed as he could be, but he still carried a piece of white paper to the local magistrate and explained it to them.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Wow. I so this is my question too. So what was your most we talked about kind of, you know, just I guess blatant parts of border, but what was your biggest like case, like somebody with 40 ducks over the limit or or a hundred doves, or what what was your biggest?

SPEAKER_00 31:01

My it's kind of sad to say. My biggest case that I ever made, I never got convicted. Um I had gotten a room who's a lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Well, no, I want to hear the story. I'll do I know you can't, I know you can't name names or anything, but I do want to hear the story. I'm interested in like like in your theory on why why I didn't get tried.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

It is a kind of a lengthy story, so if you have to cut it or edit it, I'll understand. But I got a I got a complaint. A call came in. There's a certain group, this club, they night hunt full moon nights only on weekends at this property. And so it's not like you can go work this thing all the time. You have to kind of wait for the full moons. And uh, you know, I think it was during during hunting season. So anyway, I uh I've been working it and you know, really close, had a place to you know, back my truck in, windows down, just listening for a shot. And you just sit there and you wait, and it's all you can do. And uh this one particular weekend, um, my buddy Chip, he and I were working, and when I normally wouldn't go out there until like the moon was up good. And uh he and I were working together on another area of Hampton County, and we ended up making a night hunt case of about three guys, all from Florida or something like that. And and anyway, we you have to go through the whole booking thing, confiscate the truck, get it to inventory it, do all that. And by this time, it's you know three o'clock in the morning. And it's a you know, we're finally done. I'm at the gas pumps fueling up my truck, and it just happened to look up and like, oh, it's a good full moon tonight. It's like, all right, I'm gonna spot. I mean, I barely keep my eyes open. And uh back into my little spot and I rolled the window down and you know, mosquitoes buzzing, and and and I can barely stay awake. And I'm like, I don't know how long I'm gonna do this. It's like, all right, I'm gonna do something I had never done before. I'm just gonna ride in there. So I just rode into the property and they had those, you know, we call them condominium stands, but you know, the big box stands with the top on it. So it was a big field, probably, I don't know, a hundred-acre field, and they they had these box stands around it. So I roll up there to the first box and I jump. I was like, all right, come on down, I don't had enough of this. And there ain't nobody up there. I rode up to the next stand and got out with my flashlight, and all right, I've had enough of this, come on down, and there wasn't nobody there. And I get the third one, and I could see a nylon strap between the you know two by four flooring or two by six, whatever, it was a strap hanging down. I said, All right, come on down, I've had enough of this. He goes, Okay, I'm coming. But my heart about jumped out. I was like, oh my gosh, somebody's up there. And uh, and uh it was uh it was a someone from Columbia area, actually. And uh he uh so he goes to climb down, but he's taken a long time. And he's what he was trying to do was uh take the bolt out the gun and he was gonna go chunk it. And but I got him before he got that. And uh he had night vision binoculars and hand warmers and food, and I mean they had been up like hours and hours. There was a big group of them. They thought I was the pickup guy, because this was about the time I guess they said y'all come pick us up. And they thought I must have been the pickup guy. That's why he didn't climb down. The rest of them figured out what was going on, they climbed down in Hallbud in the woods. So I had this guy in my truck and uh handcuffed, and uh and I was like, Where's everyone else? And he, you know, there's no vehicle or anything, so uh he uh he he's not saying anything, so I knew there had to be more. So I'm just riding around going to all the stands, and uh, it was old uh dissed-up cornfield. So, you know, it's it's roofs, and I got this guy, he's handcuffed like this. And back then I had just a regular cab, uh Chevrolet truck. So I got off the road and got into the field, and I'm bumping it. I mean, it's just every bump is clicking that though those handcuffs a little bit tighter and a little bit tighter, and he's complaining. He's like, Oh, these things are hurting. I said, buddy, they ain't made for comfort. I was like, there's one way I can loosen them up for you, you tell me where everyone is, and he wouldn't tell me anything. Uh so I ended up by this time I'd called my sergeant and a couple other officers, and they've all shown up. And Sun's about to come up now, and uh we take the guy to the jail, book him, and then we come back, and then we see all the other guys coming out the woods. And they oh, we we've been down there hunting, we just got here this morning, but it w we knew it was the it was the whole crew. Yeah. So and uh now, so now it comes down to court time, and I've got my whole case file laid out. I'm you know, this is a general sessions court, this isn't a magistrate level. So I'm you know going before the circuit court judge because that was the the level that case was back then. And uh right before court, I got uh the solicitor, he called me and said, judge wants to see us in the back. So we go to the back, and I'm thinking, oh, he's just pleading guilty now. And that's when I found out that the uh judge was gonna he had uh direct had a direct verdict of not guilty because I had insufficient evidence to prove the guy was hunting because I did not see him look through the scope of the rifle. That's what was written on the on the thing. And I lost the case. And then skip ahead about three years. I'm at the I'm working the Palmetto Sportsman's Classic, uh, working the dive van. And uh this fella comes around, he was I knew him uh you know from the Hampton area, and he asked me about that case. And I said, What do you know about it? And he goes, Well, who do you think called you and gave you that tip? And I said, Was that you? And I was like, Well, why why would you have even ratted him out? He goes, Well, I used to hunt with him, and then they they kicked me out the club. That's why I ratted him out. Wow. So that was the whole circle. So you gotta kick out the club.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

So that was my claim to fame. And actually, at that time, that had there had not been a case made with the state of catching someone like night hunting on a full moon night, um, like that, because they weren't shining spotlights or anything like that. And the uh editor of South Carolina Wildlife had gotten a hold of me and said, Hey, we we want to do a big article on this, you know, once you you know get the conviction and everything. People say there was there there was never an article.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

So let's so so what uh in Title 50, is that right? Title 50 is the in the code of law, South Carolina Code of Lawrence. Title 50 and South Carolina, I'm proof of me, I just want to make sure I was right there. But so my question is this, though, and I and I've I've had a lot of people ask this over the years, and just like we've discussed it a lot of time. What is the rule of the forward? Like, how early can you shoot in the morning? Because you know, on a moon on a moonlit night and you get in a stand, you it's one hour.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

One hour before sunrise, one hour after sunset. That's what a rifle is.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Whatever the phone tells you. If it's 637, you can shoot up to 737. Correct.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

Okay. I always thought it was 30 minutes. I didn't realize it was a full hour. Well, that's a half hour on waterfowl.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

Yeah, ducks is 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

And it used to be, yeah, I think ducks have kind of gotten a little more simplified. Used to be 30 minutes before, and then you'd have to look at where you were at, and it's plus two minutes, or plus three minutes, or minus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

But now uh GPS and I think you know, phones are all GPS oriented. I think that kind of takes all that out of it now.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Okay. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

It reminds me, we were in Arkansas one day and had a group walking in past us to a hole that we were already at, and uh and it was right right before you know shooting light. And we had a group six, eight, ten work over the top of the shooting. And they hurled in, and we had kind of a slow couple of days, and you might remember that. And uh ready, and I said, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

I said, Come on. And we and the boys over there that were walking in said, It's a little early, ain't it? I said, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:41

They didn't have the time zone right. They didn't, you know, they were a little behind.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

They were they're yeah, clock was a little slow.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

All right. Uh Ken, 28 years uh in what you called earlier the Possum police. That's what you were a member of, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Well, you know, y'all refer often on this uh on this podcast as green jeans. And uh I'd say that's that that's one of the nicer ones. So I said there's you know, possum polies, mud marshal, rabbit sheriff. I mean, we've heard a lot. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

I've heard a rabbit sheriff before 28 years as a rabbit sheriff.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

Uh tell me what's like what's the funniest excuse that you've heard for whatever that violation may have been? I'm sure some people have come up with some pretty lengthy explanations for why they were in the wrong or had done whatever the you know the infraction was.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

You know, off the top of my head, I I can't think of any real good um.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Did you ever uh check any dove hunts? Did you do you work a lot of dove hunts? Yeah. Did you ever see anybody try to cram like a corn stalk into their gun as a plug?

SPEAKER_00 40:44

No, I've never I've heard of that often. Um and and and every each officer little down corners. Normally it's a pencil. I mean, that's what I had, that's what I had in mind. Those husky pencils were just get real good. Yes. Um each officer has his own way of doing things. Uh, you know, we generally will uh, you know, on on a duff field, I approach you, I have you empty your gun, and you know, you hand me three shells. If I can get three in the bottom, you're in trouble. You're in trouble. If I can't get three, have a good day.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

I mean, Scott's League Weagle. I think when he had it pull that day, he could only get like one in the bottom or something. League weekly.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Let me ask you this. I so you walk up to a group, whether they're duck hunting, deer hunting, dove hunting, whatever. All right, so is the likelihood of you writing a ticket based more on your day, your morning, what's going on in your marriage, or whatever, or are you reading the group to figure out am I gonna go hard on these guys or am I gonna take it easy on these guys?

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Um, it's a couple things. It's it's gonna be the severity of it, how they how they talk to me, um, whether they're lying, uh all that kind of plays into fact. You know, it could be, you know, I'm not gonna write a hard copy ticket on a guy that doesn't have a throw cushion or expired fire extinguisher or nothing like that. But if he wants to call me every name in the book, then I will. I mean, I I don't mind. Um, you know, that's why I don't know if y'all have ever noticed uh or had the experience of uh seeing in a ticket. There is a range in in the fines. It's not what'd you say earlier, $150 or something like that. No, it generally runs from $160 to $470. And that range a lot depends on the person's attitude. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

And uh so keep a positive mental attitude. That's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

It sounds like that's what I hear.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

There was a uh once again, just another one of my things helping to benefit people out here.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Positive mental attitude. There you go. Funny story on that, I think you'll appreciate this one. This was was when I was in Hampton. Uh stopped a boat uh from Georgia, and I don't even remember what the violation was, but it was something I was writing a ticket on. I don't know if it was a you know life jacket or expired sticker or something.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

But it was you have to meet the quota of tickets you have.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Didn't have a quota. Didn't have a quota. Um and on the Savannah River, you know, you're you're in current. I'm in a bass boat, so I am, you know, got the boats, you know, driver to driver, and you know, I'm where I can sit there and talk to this guy. But meanwhile, you're always having to like you know pop it in reverse and back up so you don't go up under the bushes and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

So DNR bass boat, or that was your I mean. No, no, it was a DNR.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

I had an Omar bass boat.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Oh, reading.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Oh, I didn't know. Glad to know that. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

It was it was a it was a fish and ski bass boat. That's why I had the wind walk through windshield.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Good to know. A little Trigon. But uh so I'm talking to this fella, and uh I have I'm writing him a ticket. I I don't don't remember what it was. But you know, we're close enough, he can see me writing this ticket.

unknown 43:59

And

SPEAKER_00 44:00

While I'm writing the ticket, his wife is giving me an earful. I mean, she is letting me have everything. Who don't know who you think you are? Some young punk with a badge out here, then blankety blank, this, that, another. And meanwhile, I'm just mouth shut, writing. $470. Well, I was putting I was putting a little, you know, she was saying, oh, and I'd put a little mark at the top. I'd keep writing. And she put a little mark at the top. After a while, he asked me, What are those marks for? I said, every time your wife opens her mouth, I'm adding 20 bucks to the ticket. And she looked at her and was like, You better shut your mouth. I didn't add the money to it, but just kind of proved the point. Because I think y'all have uh brought this up on a past episode too. Back then, we had to collect money from non-residents. So if I wrote you from if you were if you're from out of state in South Carolina and you're from out of state, and whatever that ticket is, I I've got to I got to have that money or you go to jail.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

Wow. So now it's different now. Because some people had some listeners trying to allege that Bubba had not been truthful in his story or not.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

He said $180 cash and I don't make change, is what he told us. Straight up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

That's truth to that. I mean, that's that's exactly okay. I understand they're from out of state, you don't want them to get away and never have any way to any recourse. So I get demanding the money, but if they don't have cash on them and it's $200, whatever, do you give them a chance to get to some convenience store and find an ATM close by and you follow them?

SPEAKER_00 45:27

I'll sit sit with the boat. Okay. One of the people. I mean, worst case, I've got your boat. You don't come back, I'm taking your boat.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

That's what the guy told us. He said, We could we ask him and back then we we didn't have two nickels rubbed together, and we like we just were able to scrounge up this hundred and eighty dollars. If we didn't have what we do, he said, I didn't pound you or I didn't pound a boat, one or two. Yeah. That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

If you were from Florida, you know, night hunting, you would go to jail. But if it was a license case or, you know, untagged deer or shining or something like that, you didn't have the money, I'm following you to the ATM machine.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

But yeah, you're another one of our listeners asked me to ask you another question, uh, to try to get to the bottom of something. Um, can you explain to our listeners out there what exactly is wrong with using shot to kill a turkey? Like, why is that a thing? You'd have to ask a biologist. I don't know. That's a good answer. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

I honestly don't I can't.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

And do you do you remember? I know you were tired. Do you remember like what the what would the penalty be if you were caught shooting shot at said turkey, roughly?

SPEAKER_00 46:26

It's a $470 fine, and I don't know the point. The points got you. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Would a hunting license you accumulate points or you lose points with a hunting? You lose points. Yeah. Like driver's license, you get points with a ticket and you lose points on it.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Driver's license, I think it's 12. Yeah. I think Dinari was uh 18, if I remember correctly. But you know, if you go a year without a violation, I think you get half of them back, and then maybe another year or two, you you can get them all back.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

Very good. That gives hope for you, Bubba. You can get them back. Scott got his back, I think.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

I only lost them one time.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

I've never lost any. I don't have to worry about getting them back. Just obey the law.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

I agree with that. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_04 47:06

It's not that hard.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Legal Eagles right here.

SPEAKER_04 47:09

Um, as we're kind of wrapping up uh this first episode with our first ever DNR Officer Boy, I want to thank you for coming on. I know my pleasure. There's a lot of guys that are in your profession that would shy away from uh the banter and in this podcast because you know our Well I'm retired now, so I don't have to worry about the department going back and doing anything to me.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

So it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

No, we appreciate you coming on, we appreciate your attitude, and I wish that every game warden I ever ran across was as cordial as you have been tonight.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Well, I would say this for all the listeners if they do happen to run into an officer, tell the truth, be nice, it will get you a lot further than lying and trying to get out of it or calling them a bunch of four little words.

SPEAKER_04 47:47

No, I I agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:49

Very good advice. Um, before we wrap this one up, is there uh one story that maybe you haven't told that you really feel like something our listeners would love to hear from your side of the ticket book that uh you'd love to touch on?

SPEAKER_00 48:04

I mean, there's so many you would maybe give me a scenario or a species or something, and I'll see if I can something pops in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 48:13

Uh I got a question about the Robo deer.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

This is a whole full-body deer, or is the same way?

SPEAKER_00 48:21

It's not much. It's it's uh it's on, it's just basically like rebarbing, just stab it into the ground. Yeah. And it's it's a real deer. It's a real hide, it was a real mount. Okay. But it's it's plastic. I mean, you can pick it up and just run with it. The head comes off and uh the head and tail move. So it's uh the tail moving is the way that really gets them is when he's on Twitch. I remember when we uh first got our deer, the the officer I mentioned earlier, Larry Manuel. Larry could uh fix and tinker with anything and make something work. And he ended up getting taking the actuator and motor out of a car window, and he rigged that thing up so we could lay it down and pick it back up with our remote. So if the same guy was kind of riding by not doing anything, just looking at it, we'd just lay it down until he leaves and then we'd stand it back up.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

All right, last question, and and then we'll we'll wrap this episode up. Um, I know that you probably write a lot of uh fire extinguisher tickets or life jacket tickets. When you're on the water, there's a lot of other things that go along with boating. But when it comes to hunting and fishing, what's the most common infraction that you ended up having to cite people for? Hunting and fishing, it would probably be licensed.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Licenses. Licenses would be the licenses. Um depending on the time of the year or whatnot, it could be limits fishing. You know, you know, a striper hit in anything you throw out there, it's hard for some people to you know stop at five or you know, so five.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

I thought you just filled in the cooler. All right. Well, man, Ken, thank you for having us on. We look forward to being able to put together another episode with you. We appreciate you making time. And uh, we hope that all of our listeners out there will make sure they get those deer tagged, they count those ducks, and that they get that fishing license renewed and stay mostly legal as best they can. Thank you, and we look forward to seeing you on another Mostly Legal Monday.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

Hey y'all, welcome back and happy Mother's Day to all the ladies in Mostly Legal Land. I want to share a verse. I believe this verse was in this actual episode. Uh I know I've said it before on the podcast, um, so maybe you will remember it. It's Proverbs 28:1. I haven't shared it in a word segment, but I have um I have used it just in a regular uh conversation on the podcast. It says this the wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion. And the principle here, of course, is pretty straightforward. Whenever you've done something wrong, whenever you know that you could possibly get caught, uh, you don't enjoy that. You it's not it's not fun knowing that there's a chance you could get a ticket or you could get pulled over, or you know, whatever. Um you're concerned that everything that's going down is not above board. And then if anybody asks you about something that is even remotely close to that thing in the back of your mind, then you're in denial. Um you're avoiding that conversation. You're you're looking for all kinds of excuses or outs or just playing the quiet game. Um, because the wicked flees when no one pursues. And then the second part of it, but the righteous are bold as a lion. When when we're preyed up, when we have sought godly wisdom about a decision, when we're confronted on an issue and we know we have walked in the light and we've done the right thing, then we don't have to be afraid about anything. As a matter of fact, we can be as bold as a lion because the truth is on our side. And when the truth's on your side, it doesn't mean you can be a jerk, it doesn't mean you get to just totally ramrod somebody, but it does mean that you can be bold and you don't have to back up and you don't have to make excuses and you don't have to look for holes uh to fill in your story because there are none, because this is how it went down, and this is how it's gonna get told, because this is the truth. The righteous are as bold as a lion. So I want to just encourage you to walk in the light, uh, to pursue the truth, and when we do, we don't have to worry about who's around the corner, who might catch us, and we can be as bold as lions. Have a great week. Hope you uh enjoy it, stay safe, and we'll talk to you again soon.