Episode 48 - Toy remembering Baseball and Football as a Gamecock!

Welcome back, Toy McCord joins us again to tell us about his playing days and some of his drive for being good at whatever he was after. There should be some good nuggets to ponder, we hope you enjoy this episode as we enjoy some more burning wood!

Follow the Mostly Legal Podcast:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mostlylegalpodcast/
• X: https://x.com/MostlyLegalPC
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61577744459338

Mostly Legal is brought to you by:

• Simpsons Hardware: https://shopsimpsons.com/
• Burriss & Ridgeway Injury Lawyers: https://burrisslaw.com/
• Palm Casual: https://palmcasual.com/

Email us: mostlylegalpc@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:59

Baseball, whether it's football, whether it's duck hunting, scouting, don't leave anything on the table. There you go. Well, how do you get you? I said, well, he knew I was going. When you call them, you call one. You don't call the drone. You call the one that moves.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Welcome home and welcome back to another episode of the Most Legal Podcast. This is Stephen Dinkins, your host. I'm excited to be back at Dinkins Mill on this summer evening with Bubba the Barracuda Johnston, Double Nickel, and of course my brother Scott Dinkins. We're excited to be coming to you again. And I'm going to go ahead and give you a little spoiler. We've got Mr. Toy McCord with us again, and we're excited to be talking to him a little bit more about the outdoors, some of his stories from Sparkleberry and other places, but also a little bit more about his sports history. He's got quite the resume when it comes to baseball and football, too. But before we jump back in with Mr. Toy, I want Scott to give a quick shout out to a listener of the week for this week.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah, I want to give a big thanks to Matt Talley. Matt's dad, Eddie Talley, is also a listener. He was my basketball coach at Wilson Hall. And Matt is uh his oldest son, a great athlete, and played basketball at Wilson Hall. Uh was a great baseball player as well. Um but I saw Matt at the First Baptist uh men's wild game banquet uh a month or so ago, and he talked about the podcast and told me how much they enjoy uh listening to it, him and his buddies talk about it when they get together and laugh about the stories they hear Bubba tell. And uh so I appreciate you listening, Matt. I hope you keep on and don't forget to keep talking about it and share it with your buddies. Um that's how, like Bubba said last week, I think that's how we keep going, is people talking about what we're talking about. But um, you know, we talked about Matt being a good athlete, and uh and of course our guest uh Toy was a great athlete, and I I'm not sure he couldn't still beat us on the baseball diamond at this day. Um now speaking for yourself, I'm quite an accomplished Church League softball fan.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

That's for I forgot you don't forget that you brought back the golden spikes. I mean you busted them all. Basically, basically we've done that another time. Another time.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

But Toy, tell uh tell us a little bit about your baseball career. Um I know we talked about that that some off-air, but our listeners would love to hear um how you began in baseball and and uh some years at Carolina, Legion ball you mentioned. Um, what are some of the highlights you remember when you think back on baseball?

SPEAKER_05 3:38

Well, there are certain things I do remember. Um in the eighth grade, my first game, we were playing at Lower Richland, playing behind the the hospital back there. The first time up, uh got a single over third. I was tickled to death. Went one for three. And uh I had a very good uh season. I went through a period there where it was down a little bit, but then later on in the year the coach moved me to cleanup in the eighth grade. And I had a couple of big games right back to back. And that got people that were interested in me right there because the scouts come in to watch the people that were pitching against us, and I was hitting them at that young age. And now when I'd get home out of school, if me and Donald would play rubber ball side the house all day long, all day Saturday. Our friends come, we played ball all day. It's getting that little rubber ball, throwing it hard, and so the baseball looked like a watermelon coming up there. And in ninth and tenth grade, uh I did well, and like I said, when I in the tenth grade at the end of the Legion after the last game against Sumter, uh, which when we went to Sumter, it was like going to the big leagues, though after from the other fields we played at. And so we played hard there, and I had a good game. Then I uh there were some people from the uh uh uh semi-pro league was watching me and asked me to come play with them. And I didn't have no idea what I was doing, but I the next day I went and played with them and they put me in shortstop and I played there the rest of that summer with them, which and I played against several uh ex-big leaguers there. They were all nice to me because I was a kid, I was 16 years old, and they took care of me, and that really highlighted uh got me out there. Uh-huh. You know, and then uh got my junior and senior year in high school. I was playing in front of the scouts, out every game in high school. And uh I uh Turberville dropped their Legion team and I got to go to something, and that was a big deal because I was going from a good program to a great program. And Bernie Jones was a great coach too. And like that's when I had a chance to play side by side with Wally Jones and and Marvin Haley, that group, and it was uh good, and and we were good, but we just we were runners up a couple times to state, but we just did one thing, one game, missed out. But I did, and then I got a chance to go to Carolina to play either. I could have gone to a bunch of schools in football, I mean a bunch of them. And I was probably going to go to Clemson uh up until one of the coaches came to my house in Manning, Ed Pitts came to my house in Manning, Carolina coach. And I was thinking that at Clemson for three years. Uh their scout would be at my house all the time. And um, and I was gonna play quarterback there, supposedly, get my shot there. And I always wanted that shot. And when um when Coach Pitts came to talk to me at my house, we just clicked. And I said, Well, how about with baseball? He said, Well, you yeah, you and and you can play baseball. Well, Clemson um offered me a full football scholarship said I could play baseball. Carolina handed me a scholarship that said full football slash and slash or baseball. I'm full either way. And that time, and I don't think it's really they do it now, very few full rides in baseball. They had full rides in football, very few in baseball. They get so many baseballs and they cut them up to get these players. Yeah. But I had a full ride either way at Carolina, and uh and I got to play with some good players, and like I say, we were very good, but we were playing against North Carolina, and if you say they still playing now, right now today. So I mean, they still got a great, great, great program.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Who was your coach at Carolina in baseball?

SPEAKER_05 7:39

Well, uh Risinger was there my freshman year, and Roy Cromer, who I played with in the semi-pro league in Darlington, okay, was my freshman baseball coach, and he'd played some Pro Ball and he was an infielder. He helped me to no end about what to expect, these pitches throwing, how to do such and such. And we were very good under him. Fact is, we didn't, I don't know if we lost the game, freshman. And um, and Wally and I both hit very high. We did good there. And he he really helped us. Um you and Wally were the same year? We were we were the same year, same age and very good. Going around like that. I think I think Wally told me he said he hit 443 and I hit 442. Well, he would know more about that than me on that. And that's pretty good. See, that was the first time. That was freshman. Wally would hit and get on, and I knock him in.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

So he scored a lot of runs. And he did that right on round, too. Forgive my ignorance, uh, they get the dates wrong, but so Bobby Richardson coached Carolina. That was before you came through or after you came through? After a good ways after. A good ways after, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah, very good. He was still playing in, probably. Is that right? Or yeah, he was still playing.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

I fact did we went to watch him play. And um, but uh the junior year, I went my this end of my sophomore year, I went to uh I didn't stay and work out football all summer because I'd already started as a sophomore, so I was good, I was good to go. Okay. The first year I had to stay. I couldn't go play in a summer league because I had to work out football all summer and and make make the grade as as so to speak. Yeah. So when I was able to go at the end of my sophomore year, I went to Virginia with Wally, and we played in the uh Valley League there, Shenandoah Valley League. And I played short and Wally played second, and we had a good year. Good year. And that really helped us the next year at Carolina, because the next year, Wally and Billy and I, all three, made all ACC. Billy Cash from Columbia was a first baseman, so we had we had three-fourths of that infield all ACC. That means we were pretty stiff. Yeah, that's I was proud of that.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Now you mentioned earlier when we were talking offline about how the game has changed with the aluminum bats that they play with now and the hard wound balls. Um, and back then it was wooden bats, and y'all were using a soft, softer ball, and so it just didn't fly as far. But I I would imagine that would change the strategy. Y'all played a lot of small ball, I would assume.

SPEAKER_05 10:14

A ton of it. We did a lot of hit and run, a lot of bunting.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

We were very we learned that at something now. Mr. Bernie Jones taught us. Well, I was gonna say, even watching Wally coach, the Pivot Teams, that's what they were known for. And and look here, when I played Pro Ball, when I'd get home, guess who would call me? Wally would call me. We get together. I would show him all the base running things we did in spring training during the season, the bunt plays and all that, and he'll tell you he still uses them. And uh the stealing things, the double steals, the delays, and all that. And um, so he studied it, and he's a fantastic coach, by the way. He could do good, he'd be a great college head coach, be a good professional coach.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Now, his brother Tommy coached me at Wilson Hall, and he was a great baseball coach as well.

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Tommy's scrappy now.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

He was, and and he was detail-oriented.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

Tommy'll fight you in the second.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

That's a fact. He was detail oriented. I mean, his signs were, I mean, they were so intricate, we would get confused, and he'd go over and over and he had a key that he'd have to hit for us to know the the next sign was the one that we needed to pay attention to. But I mean, he was excellent. We had great years playing with Tommy.

SPEAKER_05 11:27

I sent when I was coaching at um Lawrence Spain against Tommy, I sent somebody over to watch them play and said, don't look at nobody but Tommy. Write down what he's doing. That way I could try to get the sign. Yeah. That's true now, that's a true story. I wasn't worried about it. I knew the players. I knew they were a good team. But I wanted to get an edge, you know, and and good at Michigan. You or Listen, either one. You always can do better. Whether it's baseball, whether it's football, whether it's duck hunting, scouting, don't leave anything on the table. There you go. And then, you know, you want to be the one they're talking about. My daddy told me something once. He said, son, you hear what that fellow said about me? I said, Yeah, I didn't like that, Daddy. He said, No, no, that's good. He said, I'm on their mind. That wasn't very flattering, but guess what? I'm on their mind. If they're saying something bad about you, they still got you in mind. That gives you a chance to do good again. With the stuff you're doing good already, you got a chance. So just be on their mind. There you go. And then I'll tell people that. Be on their mind.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

So so everybody will understand I like you play baseball and football at Carolina. Yeah. And I mean that tells me you were probably pretty quick, too. I'd imagine you're pretty pretty fast.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

That was my first few steps are very fast.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Quick, real quick handy. Not quite so bad. I don't I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_05 12:58

I I could tell the story, even in high school. Uh I could get in the open, and the fella said, uh, I I broke again against Georgia, and the fella said to me, How'd you how'd he you let him run you down? I said, Well, I didn't let him. I said, Well, how'd he get you? I said, Well, he knew where I was going. He just beat me there. As long as they were in front of me and I cut, I could get them, but then when I straightened up, I wasn't so fast. I was fast.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:23

But that I wasn't fast, fast. I was quick. I was quick as any of them. And I I my stuff was based on being quick. And that helped being a defensive back.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, you played you played cornerback at Carroll.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

Defensive left cornerback.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Yeah. Now, who was the head football coach for the game caucus in football at that time?

SPEAKER_05 13:39

At football, called Paul Diesel came in. Marvin Bass, Simon, Paul Diesel came in.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Alright, and Diesel had just come off a national championship at LSU, if I remember right. So that was a big hire at the time. That's correct.

SPEAKER_05 13:50

Everybody was excited. That's correct. Now, the first year they they we just went and played. Then as soon as that season was over, they put in stuff that we hadn't seen. And it was a lot better that next year. Okay. He got to know the players and everything and stuff like that. And and so uh I'd played three years of football counting uh freshman. Freshman could not play varsity back then. Uh now they can. But so that was three years I played, so I was ready to play baseball then. And I'd got hurt uh in a Virginia game, hurt my shoulder, and I was scared I'd need to go ahead and play baseball. So the end of my junior year. And I know that they got real upset when I got drafted and signed. But but I I went to the roundhouse to talk to the coach, and and uh they were too busy to talk to me right then, and so I went back later and they were doing something. And the third time, now the scout, the baseball scout, was sitting in the motel room waiting on me. And the third time went and I went ahead. And I got my schooling back. Yeah. I got a little extra, and I got some more, and I got some this and that. My mama got some, my daddy got some, you know, I did all that, so I felt like I did all right. That's great.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

You know, and I and I played eight years. Well, you mentioned the roundhouse, and I'd almost forgotten about the roundhouse. It's been demolished for years now, but when I was in school there, the roundhouse was still there, that was still the main athletic, you know, administration office, but no more, but it was well known.

SPEAKER_05 15:25

Well, and and you asked me earlier, I didn't go into it. Jackie Powers was hired to coach baseball and when Roy coached this uh freshman, Jackie came in and coached a couple years there. Okay. June Reigns came in later. Okay, and he's a good good one now. Yeah, he had a good run for a while. He was a good one. Good follow, too.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So I want to ask you about a couple people. They were either they might have been your your time, they might have been a little bit before you, a little bit behind you, because it's amazing back in your day, there was a lot of really good athletes back in your day. And nothing. How about Bobby Bryant? Um, so I mean just just a lot of good ones. So how about like was Jim Smoke? He was behind you? He was behind me. He was behind you, and how about now Jim Smoke could run. I heard he was a pretty good ball player back in the day.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

He could run too, though. Jim Louder.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Jim Louder could run. How about Bobby Jordan?

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Bobby Jordan was a good baseball player, powerful, power hitter.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

He played with you. Was he he he was your age?

SPEAKER_05 16:20

No, he was ahead of me, but I played with him a year or two.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

So he was we talked about Will Davis and my daddy Tommy Johnson earlier. He was one of their really, really good friends. I know he had a heart attack at a very young age and passed away, but he I think he was drafted and played played major league ball. Eddie always said he was a really good baseball player as well.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

He was a very good baseball player. He could hit it a ton, too. He's doing what he's looking for, he can hit a ton.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Before we get off the athletic and the Carolina, you know, sure topic of discussion, we we really need to kind of dive into, you know, there's one team you play every year at Carolina, whether it's baseball or football, that team from the upstate. The upstate utter to the street.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Tell us why you don't like Clemson right now. You told me this at the landing.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Yeah, I'm gonna tell you this. Um the last baseball game I played at Clemson, we lost. The last football game I played at Clemson, we lost. The last time, and I love Clemson now, the last time I've been to Clemson was at my ex-wife's graduation, so I'm over for three days. I ain't going back there.

unknown 17:33

I ain't going back there.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

He told me that at 11 the other day.

SPEAKER_05 17:39

Yeah, unfortunately, uh and young coach Willem would always, he would even write me a letter after I was playing at Carolina when I played Pro Bowl. I might get a letter. He was so nice to me, you know, stuff like that. You make those relationships. Relationships are very, very important.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Well, things have changed a lot uh since you played baseball in college. Um today, basketball, football, baseball, this NIL and the money these kids are getting. Uh you ever just I I have to imagine being an athlete like you are, you got to think, man, if I could have come along 40 years later, my bank account would be pretty full right now.

SPEAKER_05 18:16

Well, I was talking to my son about that, so TJ would have got a bunch of money. He hit I mean his he hit 540, 580 in lesion, what he did. I mean, he he could hit he could just flat out hit. I was a little stronger than him, but he's he was faster than me, and he could hit. But we were talking about the money, and I said, Well, TJ, if me being being able to start both in football and baseball, I mean, that'd been a bunch of money. Yeah. You know, so hey down. I wish they'd go back and say we can recoup some of that. That'd be nice. But it's just I I really feel like it's tearing it up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

Tearing the whole thing up. Now so baseball, you play for baseball, I know that was your heart. It seems like that was your passion. Um, and right now the Gamecocks are are in the market for a new coach, trying to find their way with a program that's been great in the past, but seems to be kind of in the wilderness right now. Is there somebody out there you'd love to see them hire? Do you follow baseball now enough to say, hey, I wish they'd figured out a way to go get Coach XYZ?

SPEAKER_05 20:16

I don't know that it matters. That's the only thing. See, there's several you know I'd love to, but I don't want them to have to go in there and worry about trying to get somebody to give them a million dollars, get a player, and then the plays one year and he doesn't do good, then he transfers somewhere else, and then he's then he he leaves there when he's young.

SPEAKER_07 20:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

If you look at some of the basketball programs, they're losing, they got 15 players, 12 of them transfer, they keep three. So it's like I was telling you, um the people I know about the coaching-wise, I know the guy at Coachal's been very successful. So I mean, I would go with anybody they hire, and I would think they would really just get someone that they really would it shows that they can build a program. Yeah. You got to build a program again now. Yeah. So that's what we need to do, is good. And there's a lot of good coaches out there, but they wouldn't want to come. It's tough, it's tough now, yeah, with the new Neil money. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

So I want to shift gears a little bit if it's okay, y'all back to hunting a little bit. And just and and this is one of the things that that I've always heard and from Jim. Jim Smokes, one good friend of mine, and he's he's a really good duck hunter, too. And I know that Mr. McCord and Jim hunted together a bunch and everything. But one of the things I've heard from a lot of people that knew toy McCord is that I guess I guess pulling the trigger is kind of the just anticlimatic. From you, from what I always heard about you, there's nobody that did more work in finding ducks and watching ducks and seeing where they were going and how they reacted and all that kind of stuff, that the whole just finally pulling the trigger with the icing on the cake. But I think for you, the magic was was was scouting them and finding them and all that kind of stuff. Tell a little bit about what you I mean, because it's hard to do that now. I mean, I'm not saying you can't go out different other place and do it. But back in the day, like how you had the people that don't know, how you found us and what you look for and what you did and stuff, a little bit about that. I think it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_05 22:18

Well, I started looking in October, and I started I've tried to find a pattern that's something there, useless wood duck with them out of the two with them in October. And I watched the water and I had a notebook. I'd write it in the notebook, what I saw, such and such. And every year before the season, I'd get that notebook out and look where ducks were at certain, certain times, do that. But when I duck hunted, when we come to the hill, the people hunting me would get in their car and go home. I backed, I got the gas we had, put it back in the motor, I backed the boat back out, and I didn't stop till I found where I wanted to hunt the next day. Now it we may have done well right here, but when we were shooting these birds, when they were leaving us, they were taking a route. And then during toward the middle of the hunt, they were all taking the same route. So I felt like I had to take that route. And I got so much enjoyment knowing that I was on them. And that's what I say. You know, you can't be satisfied and say, well, we got it now, because you don't want to just hunt tomorrow, you want to hunt the day after that too. So you want to know where they're going. So you got to watch the water levels, you got to watch uh nowadays who's shooting in ponds in the area, stuff like that. But I would really, really work hard. I'd be there full daylight. And you know what the people tell me? I say, you got a scout. I said, well, I got to go to work. I said, no, you don't. You choose to go to work. I choose to go find a duck. Now, I was some of that I might twice a week I might guide. Make some extra money, you know, but I didn't guide seven days a week because I like to go myself. You know, and I like to take people that I I want them to all do good. And and I get such a pleasure sitting there and and and doing different things on the call. You know, I might blow a call, somebody said, that don't even sound like a duck. I know it, but did you see what that duck did? So instead of blowing a go through that sequence, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, I'd say, bank, bank, and he's breaking on that. Why blow anything else? Stay on that. I'd do something that you don't supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:46

But you you you look at the bird, you got to know the bird, and then you look at the conditions, because the next day the conditions will be entirely different. And so, where did those birds go when you when you shot them? How you gonna know if you don't go find them? So I took it serious. I still do, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah, yeah, he's still uh don't let him fool you. He's still hard at it.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

Do you do you guide anymore? Do you still do a little guiding? I take, I got, I I I, you know, I got people I like to take. I could guide, I don't have a guide license anymore.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Okay, but you I was gonna ask, when you were guiding, mostly mostly legal. I didn't know what the rules were in South Carolina. But you had to have a license back in the day to guide.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

I would start with you did not. Okay. Then you didn't, but I had a fishing license, which it covered everything outdoors for a while. Okay. So, and then I just on my my business card, it said gamecock chemical, such and such. On the back side, it said toy McCord fishing, and I had the the left hand side was striper fishing, the right hand side was duck hunting, and the bottom was cat fishing, stuff like that. And um, so then when I couldn't use the license anymore, we let it expire accidentally. And then you have to go for days now to get a license, pay a lot of money. So I put that same card sometimes, and I'll put uh not whatever word I need to use, let them know I'm not a licensed guide now. Gotcha. But I still hunt and fish. And if you want to go hunt and fish with me, come on, and you happen to be a customer, you gracious, that's great. Yeah, you know, I love it. Yeah, yeah, because I'm going. Yeah. If the weather's right. I would get up, I would get up in the mornings. I remember one time it rained for three days. There wasn't a duck in Sparkleberry Swamp. It rained for three days, lighting and stuff. Well, the last day for it, it was supposed to clear off the next day. I put the boat in water, went up there, and I saw a few ducks. When they had been seeing none. So the next morning I went right there and then thousands came in when it broke off. Because the ducks would would get, it wouldn't fly on a cloudy day. But when that sun broke out the next morning early, they're coming. They'd go to that swamp. They'd do that for about two days. Then they'd get hammered and go back and sit again.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

I remember my first, one of my first, 12, my first trip to Arkansas years ago. We hunted a couple cloud days and killed some in the biometer. And then we got a bluebird day. And they they came in there, they came to the timber, came out the the the the sun hurt their eyes in the rice fields, and they started coming to the timber to get in the shade. And so the next year I was I was all excited to take my buddies. We were all going out there. They had never been, we all went out there, and the first three days we hunted, it was cloudy, and and we killed four hens, three hen, but just no ducks. And and I remember I walked, we were staying in Pine Bluff, and I opened the door that fourth day, I think it was, it might have been the fifth day, whatever it was, and I looked at it and there were stars everywhere. I said, This is it, boys, this is it. And we absolutely smoked them that day on the blue line. But it was just it was crazy just to have those ducks, like that when that sun would come out, they would love to get them back when they were there.

SPEAKER_05 27:58

You could put in perspective too. You say, Well, we killed five. That wasn't much. Wait a minute now. What did that group kill? What did that group kill? They killed two, they killed three, they killed one, they killed so the ducks didn't fly them, we killed five. I wanted to be the one that killed the five. So I would work extra, and the people that hunt with me would know I would work extra. And that kind of like I kind of do that in everything. Now, you know, because it does, it does pay off the be prepared.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Well, you mentioned um enjoying seeing people you're hunting with killing ducks. And Stephen and I, like he said earlier, we we went to North Dakota for several years, and um there was there was one hunt where we had killed a bunch of ducks hunting a a creek or a pothole, and we'd kind of done that enough, and I I told Stephen, I said, I said, we need to figure out this field hunting. And uh, and he said, Well, how are we gonna find where they are? Like, how are we gonna find the field we're gonna hunt? And um, and so I remember um saying, Well, I'm gonna figure it out. So we I went to the refuge, the group went hunting, I was in the rental, and I watched a couple of ducks get up, and I was glass at them in the direction they went, and then I saw four more get up and go the same direction. And I drove, you know, everything square miles roadwise, and I threw I I'd drive for two miles one way and I'd take a left and I'd drive another two miles that direction, and and uh anyways, finally found them circling a field, and and those four or six ducks would circle and they'd get real low and they'd they'd pick back up. And it was like kind of like relationships that they were waiting on the other ducks to come off to refuge. And I looked back to where I'd come from with the binoculars, and here come six more, here come 12 more, here come a group of 20. And next thing you know, there's 50 ducks circling this one spot, and that 50 turns into 100, that 100 turns into 200. And I was taking videos at this point, and I was because I was excited to go back and show them what I'd found. Um, and and we we called it a duck tornado. I mean, they were just circling that field, and finally they started lightning, and then just kept coming and coming and coming. And I went back and I showed them the video. I said, that's where we're gonna be in the morning, boys, because this is gonna be something we've never done before. And but just the you know, doing the work on the front end like you're talking about, I wasn't near what you know the level that you're describing being able to do, but I remember the satisfaction of being there that morning and they came in lit on our feet.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

And we crushed.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

I drove a mouth that's flew across. I said, Great damn, where they going? Going the opposite direction they're supposed to be going. I pulled over. Then three did it. That did it. I turned, I was going to work. I turned around, went back to the house, got my boat, hooked it up, went and put in, and went the direction they went. And about three hours later, I'd got I'd go somewhere down the river and I'd stop and I'd listen and I'd cut it.

SPEAKER_04 32:01

I heard I eased and then I I said, there ain't supposed to be no duck in.

SPEAKER_05 32:10

But they were there. They were there. So we shot them good for two days there. They were gonna go into opposite away from the refuge, opposite away from Sparkleberry and everything else. But they found the water had come up some places. Now, as soon as the water goes back, they gone. But when it comes up, the ducks know it's coming up before you and I do. That's what when Sparkleberry swamp, when they start coming up, they get up and they go. They start here, when it gets a little higher, they go a little deeper, a little deeper. That's where it used to be.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Yeah, and they're paying attention to each other and they they're communicating. They're communicating. Yep, they're going.

SPEAKER_05 32:49

How about when they fly over you right at night and you hear them going, well, it's dark. That lead duck letting everybody know where it is. Yeah. I mean, they gotta lead them. They gotta leave them. When you call them, you call one. You don't call the trove. You call the one that moves.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Like you're talking about too, and them like moving up later in the year. Um, we talked about before, I grew up hunting in Riverside, which was way up Falker Bay Swamp, way, way up there. And and we wouldn't ever get them to the last 10 to 12 days of the season. They would got me but when they got there, they were there. But it took them, it took them a while to finally work their way up there. And they come late late in the season, that's the same type deal, but I mean you those last couple weeks would be magical and they'd be, they'd get there, but it took a while for them to get there.

SPEAKER_05 33:34

And uh another thing, I could show you every year how it started out. We either kill our limit of 15 or 20, first day, second day, fifth day, the eighth day, then it gives ten to twelve, then Christmas holidays and everybody got out of school. Five, four, three, and then right Christmas either side, zero, one, zero, two, we they go back to school seven, ten, twelve, fifteen, hit that would happen. You get the hunting pressure. Now it's hunting pressure everywhere. So the ducks can only stand so much hunting pressure.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Uh, Mr. Toy, I had a chance to go uh with a friend who invited me to go down to one of those hunting clubs that has the ponds just right there off of uh close to SCWR and or SCWA. And uh we were in there waiting on the ducks to start moving, and before they ever moved on these ponds and we had any shooting, I think it was must have been well, the guy was with told me he thought it might have been the green tree reservoir. They people started shooting over there, and it sounded like a war zone, and it lasted for an hour and a half, and it was never more than five seconds between a volley. And it it was amazing when there was that many people shooting that many shells landed on that um road.

SPEAKER_05 34:59

Say again? There'd be a hundred cars on the road. That's how many people would be in there. They'd be standing, people walking in there, yeah, they'd be in between you and where your buddy was, and there'd be people walking in there like that.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

They're shooting wood ducks, right? 99% of them.

SPEAKER_05 35:14

Yeah, they have two teal. Occasionally a a mallet might get lost.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Well, it was amazing. Let me ask you this question real quick. And and you've hunted all over, and I I've been fortunate to hunt several places, and I know Stephen and Stephen and Scott have been all over the place hunting as well. But I've heard at different places the people, the locals at the other places we go talk about South Carolina people. So they they the hardest hunters they've ever been around, and this isn't bragging on us. I just heard them say that. And I don't, why do you think that is? You think it's because we had a little taste of it, and then we we so hard to go try to find it again. What do you think?

SPEAKER_05 35:49

No, we had a taste of it, but then they started promoting it. And we had to leave here to go somewhere else because there's too many people here. Now, you watch tomorrow. If you go shoot something, then somebody goes with you, and y'all kill the limit of birds, you're glad to go home and put them up and go the next day. The fellow with you might want to put it on social media and show where you were and everything, so that takes everybody else. Didn't kill the next, you know, there's ten different groups the next day, and that's because they feel like they have to do that because there's no birds on our lake. But at the time we left South Carolina because it was getting fewer birds and more pressure. And other people had birds, and they didn't have all them ponds. They get in ponds other places now too, that are congregating the birds away from the public. Yeah. Yet the public still spending their money. Yeah. You know, and I love to hunt ponds, but it's getting to be too many.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Well, we had talked about this a little bit several months ago on the podcast there, especially Louisiana is putting some pressure on the U.S. Senate uh trying to make some more federal laws about these ponds and all these impoundments and the planting that people are doing. What's your take on that? What do you think they should or shouldn't be doing or are allowing? Uh as a longtime duck hunter, I'm curious as to what you think, because I know you've been on both sides and you've probably had good hunts on both sides. What's your take on that? Oh, the DNR wouldn't like what I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_05 37:18

I think when you buy a duck stamp, it ought to be mandatory that you buy ten bags of corn and take it out on the public ward and put food out for the birds. Because they go into the pond. When they leave the pond and get shot on the pond, I want them to light with us some food. Yeah. And that now you say that's baiting them, but my gosh. I mean, think about it now. Yeah. That's what the ponds are doing. I mean, think about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Not a normal agricultural practice.

SPEAKER_05 37:45

It's not a normal agricultural practice. Agricultural practice, you plant it and you harvest it. You know. But, you know, I uh but I'm just saying, let's just make it equal everywhere. Right. And then that won't fly. But, you know, I mean, that's the way I feel about it. Um, you know, you go hunt one place, you are a gentleman hunter. You go and take a six-ounce Coke bottle, cut the top off of it, put six ounces of corn in it, and throw it in the in the water, and you're a criminal. You know, shooting the same duck. Yeah. That leaves there to come here. You know, so it there's some things that could do, could be different.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:25

And and we all love the the challenge of duck hunting. It's boy, it is great be having to call and blowing it and see them react to you. That is, that is, you can't do that in hardly anything else. Yeah. You can bleed at a deer and something like that. Turkey's the only one. Yeah, turkey's a good one.

SPEAKER_07 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:44

Turkey's a good one. And you get a turkey that's been educated, he's tough too. Oh, yeah, he knows. But all these ducks are tough.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

So we talked we talked earlier about the 25 Mercury or whatever, and I think I think you kind of came along with that whole group too. The 870 Wingmaster was was kind of that was the gun. You could you could paddle a boat with it and shoot with it.

SPEAKER_05 39:07

You could throw it in the mud and you'd have to clean it at the end of the season. It'd still shoot.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Did you shoot the 30-inch modified? 30 modified. 30, I heard it all. 30 modified, but everybody.

SPEAKER_05 39:16

30 modified with number six Federal lead. That's the killingest bullet ever made. And then it went to the steel, and the first few years of steel, you had the bird backpelling shooting at him, he act like you didn't even hit him. You know, then you fly off 30 yards and fall. Yep. The steel will go cling to the body. The lead mashes. Yep. So is it beneficial to use the steel?

SPEAKER_00 39:38

No. You know, well, I think a lot of ducks got lost. A lot of still. A lot.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

And so maybe more ended up dying than ever were going to die from lead poisoning. You know, because they're going to they're going to shoot their people, hunters are going to shoot their, especially when the ducks are there, they're going to shoot their limit. And who knows how many they lost would still be.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

I don't think it was about the ducks. I think it was about the eagles or something else, or two that was eating the ducks, you getting the lead poison or something.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

What it was supposed to be, the ball eagle. Somebody said he ate a duck and he died. You know, so I mean and I understand all that now.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Well, I would a similar situation on the fishing front when I was down in Venice a couple weeks ago. We were catching these red drums, and they got these slots, you know, or you know, minimum size, you've got to be over 16 inches down there to keep the red drum. So I could I reeled up a bunch of them that were 15 inches, I'm here to tell you. But they've got, you know, you've pulled them up off 150 feet of water, through 150 feet. So they get that swim bladder blown up, they're gonna die. He's gonna die. And so, but now we gotta throw him back because he's not 16 inches, so we throw him back in the water and he floats off on top of the water. But we're legal.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

What in the world's sense does that make? If you go in uh sometimes the stripers in some of the deep water lakes to do that too, when the weather gets warm, when the water gets warm, when it's cold, they okay. But when it gets warm, and because it is working on the fish the same way.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

So I don't I I understand they're wanting to protect the populations, but it seems like that's uh not a smart way to do it because those fish are dying either way, and they don't stop until they get their limit above 16, no matter how many 15s they had to turn loose to float away.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

Well, I'm I know one time the the the flounder you could keep what you call 12 inch, and then when you started catching limits 12 inch, they went to 13 to 14, then to 17, then they now get to where you can't even catch catch a keeper. Yeah, you know, and then when he's hooked down in here, you know he's gonna die. Yeah. When you rip it out of him. But you can't keep him. But you you you risk getting a fine and then getting your name in the paper. Yep. You know, you got to do one back.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah, it's my understanding, and uh uh we don't have a lot of lawmakers listening to most legal, so I don't think I have to worry about it. But uh South Carolina's one of the only states where the House still determines the game laws in the states, not the DNR as much as it is the lawmakers that are elected that might not even have anything to do with the outdoors, but it's all about yeah, who's who's helping them make their decisions and how are they helping them make their decisions? And uh and that usually leaves guys like us on the outside going, why did they do it this way? This doesn't make any sense at all.

SPEAKER_05 42:17

That's that's exactly what's happening. You're you're right on that.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

And I don't know how many other states are in that same boat.

SPEAKER_05 42:22

I'm sure it is they mean well. I mean well, I'm sure you mean well. Sure, sure of it.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

We one thing we hadn't talked about a whole lot, and and you mentioned, I think maybe on the last episode or whatever, but but you got a a rich history with the whole Poca Talago hunting club. Yeah back in back all down Greeleyville, foresting area and everything like that kind of stuff. Yeah. One thing I've heard, I've I've never hunted with them, and but I am a I'm a dog hunter, y'all know. By by trade back in the day, I used to love to dog hunt. Um, but I always heard something about the McCords back in the day on these Poca Talago hunting clubs. Well, we fooled the club. If they were if they were gonna have a big drive or something, and Donald, Jimmy, or Toy were feeling to slip off, you wanted to follow them because they knew where every deer and Poca Talago swamp was gonna run. There's no ear fans or buzz about it. You got any good stories of a buck or whatever, something like that from back in the day.

SPEAKER_05 43:17

Donald would um take the boats in and whatever, and we'd go in the river in the boats, and at Poca Tago Hunting Club, see, it was Poca Talago Swamp, as well as between Forester and Greeterville, the big woods there. So if we went in the swamp, Don would take the group of people in and put them on the stands. And Jimmy is a great stander. Jimmy would go get a stand in 95 in the in the center lane and sit there all day saying, well, he might come here. He's a great stander. You know, but Don, he's going to be where the action is. And uh, but I usually ran the hunt from the hill, and I would let them know I turned dogs loose at three different times. The first uh cast out, we turn like five or six packs, different places. I go way down now and not turn out many dogs. I might turn two out here, come all the way down the other end, turn two out there, then go in the middle, turn three out, then turn, and then let them go when the shooting stops or whatever, and the dogs get gone, then I go get some more and do different places. Then at the middle of the day, then I'd go in, turn loose them dogs that would go in. You had to kick the deer up for. I'd go in the swamp, hooping and holler, and all that. And then uh when the boat started moving, people coming out, Donald would stay where he was, Jimmy would stay where he was because they're gonna jump some more deer there. So we would do well and we we did good. Donald's a very good stander, very good deer hunter, and Jim is a great stander. But we had some other guys that that hunted good too. Nowadays, it's it's turn them loose and see who's got the fastest four-wheel, run to front of the dog and stuff like that. It's it's not the same.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

What about what about the hogs? That when did they come on the scene and how they affected how y'all do what you did?

SPEAKER_05 45:52

From what I understand, when I was a boy, they had a few hogs. They got out the people's pens on the edge of the swamp, got in the swamp. I saw some around round uh Bruin and Martin's Lake early on, and uh we dusted a couple of them in there. Then we didn't have any. Then the um guys moved down here and formed a hunting club to shoot hogs. Turn them loose in the pen. And then lo and behold, we had a hurricane. The pens blew down. The hogs went everywhere. And when they breed, they have 12 or 14. Yeah. They'll do like a deer and have one or two.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

And they do that quickly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Two or three little a year or something like that.

SPEAKER_05 46:36

Yeah, and they just keep doing it. And you can go and spark a bear now and see where they are. And um, it's a pile of them, and they're hard to control.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

So that's that's where and do your dogs chase them? Oh, we and uh in between our woods where the dog hunting is, they out of there about in the about the middle of September. Yeah, they leave that woods. Okay. And they don't come back because this season's over. They know the drill.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

So y'all's club, so I we fish the mudfish tournament and brewing in every year. Go that brewing in the Martin Lake and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 47:07

That's all part of Bocatalico on the right when you're coming down, it's on the right, Pocatalico.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

And then Michael Boother that that came and was on the podcast was one time, he bought Beauchal's old place when you get down to Martin Lake and what it on the on the left back of the. He's got Bo Shaw here. He and Dr. Um Um Dr. Pennell. Yeah, Tim Pennell. They got they got Bo Shaw's old place on the left. And so, yeah, but we've beautiful place. Pretty, pretty damn there.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

I I've got a a question about this Pocatelligo hunting club. A lot of our listeners, again, are Not in the state, don't know some of these terms or rivers that we're using. We've even, as Bubba mentioned off air earlier, we've got several international listeners out there. I know they don't know where the Pocatelligo is around the world. That's a unique name for a river. So tell me, tell our listeners about the Poca Talligo name. Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_05 47:57

When I was born, it was named Poca Talligo. I couldn't tell you. Okay. But it had to be a Pocatalligo Indians or something.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

I think it was a tribe. I think it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

It was another Indian tribe? Mm-hmm. Very good.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

I don't know that for sure now. That's a gift.

SPEAKER_05 48:09

We were gonna form a club. We had we started out with two dogs. I got a couple dogs. We wanted to go deer hunting, so we had some friends let us turn the dogs loose, and then we killed a deer, and we started liking it. I got a few more dogs and got a few more friends and said, okay, hunt with us, you know, and then we just we formed a hunting club. It was basically uh McCord Hunting Club to start with, hunting on the and and then we were members of Martin's Lake the Swamp there, and so you know, when the land come up to it, we knew the people that had it at least, and they didn't hunt it. So can we hunt it? Yeah, you know, I said, and so we said, we're gonna form a club. And we started out with like 12, 15 people, me and Don. You know, we just formed it right there and got a couple of our friends and kept adding people, and then next thing you know, we got 15,000 acres around all these swamps and things and all that. And it was it wasn't much money then.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:11

Now you got to you got to work. Yeah, for that stuff. But um, we've been fortunate to be able to keep some of this 50 years. Wow, 50 years. Yeah, it is 50 years, and we're still going. That's fantastic. We're still going in. Donald and I both getting where we're slowing down, so we try to get some of the younger guys that that think like us as best we can. I bet that's hard to find. Yeah, you'll have to sometimes talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

I I want to make one other connection. Um some of our listeners that know Scott and I, uh and Bubba, we all went to Wilson Hall and we all got to either play or sit in class under uh Chuck McCord. That's a name that a lot of our network knows, and that's a first cousin of yours. Is that right?

SPEAKER_05 49:51

First cousin.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Chuck a good man, too. Yes, a good man. Yeah. He wants what's best for the kids, irregardless. Yeah, he he taught me uh science and a couple other classes, maybe chemistry. But I remember maybe eighth or ninth grade year, the first time I had him, he has a he has a uh a stick he does every year with that with that freshman class, and he puts the word decorum up on the board. And uh most of us had never heard that word before. That's not a word that your parents use much in the house. And he and he explains what it means and explains that's what he expects in the classroom. We will have decorum. You can act like you're supposed to act, you're gonna speak when you're supposed to speak. And uh, that stuck with me. And that is a word that I use with my kids when they were growing up. I was like, you're gonna have some decorum. And so my boy Nehemiah, we I told you we were in Africa for many years. Well, when we moved back, his first year, he was in Coach McCord's class, and he got to hear the decorum lecture straight from the man himself.

SPEAKER_05 50:41

He was one of he's one of these people that would look at a game and learn something from every game and every play.

SPEAKER_06 50:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:48

He knew to start with, he had a lot to learn, but he's very knowledgeable. Yeah, yeah. And he's a very good coach and so he took everything he had and put it to a good and and go home and figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

Yeah, he's a great, a great teacher and a great coach, a good influence on a lot of young men.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

So, way before y'all's time, I played at Wilson Hall, and two names you mentioned, Marvin Haley and Chuck McCord, Coach McCord, were my first football team, first football coaches in B-team football, sixth and seventh grade at Wilson Hall. First year at Coach McCord, coached at Wilson Hall. He coached us B-team football along with Marvin Haley. They were my first coaches, and and Coach McCord followed us all the way through, all the way to our senior year. Um, just always always thought the world of him got a got a special place in my heart for Coach McCord.

SPEAKER_05 51:33

He he's a he's a good man. Come from a good family. He comes from a good family. That's right. A lot of good McCords out there. Out there with Finn. That's right. And they all live right there across the road from each other.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Yeah, your niece, Angela, and I were the same age. She graduated to Lawrence Manning when I graduated Wilson Home. We went to Carolina together, and we were good friends through uh those four years. And her husband, Trey, the baseball player, um, we got to be friends with, great guy. Uh, this is a neat, neat uh family, and you know, I always knew about the McCords and Manning, and uh tonight only confirms that.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Well, as I'm looking outside across the Dinkins Mill Pond, I see that sun setting. I think it's time for us to be wrapping up this episode of the Most of Legal Podcast. We want to thank Mr. Toy McCord, the legend of Sparkleberry. Want to thank you for coming and spend time with us and chatting with us about these stories and letting us ask you so many questions. You've been a real trooper and uh certainly one of the all-time greats. Well, I appreciate everything y'all having me.

SPEAKER_05 52:30

Uh, and I really I I've enjoyed it. You got an absolute beautiful place here. Well, thank you. And um, you know, we it's kind of stuff I can do all day long.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 52:39

You know, because it's what I love.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

What did what did Sandy tell us one time? He had a good friend tell him about us. Uh we're cutting wood.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Is that what nobody cuts wood anymore? Nobody cuts wood anymore. Nobody cuts wood anymore. And talking about, you know, they enjoyed us telling stories or whatever because I guess no, no, nobody burns wood anymore. Yeah, because you still have anything. Sit around the fire, nobody burns wood anymore. That's what they said. And so they said they'd love listening to a podcast because nobody burns wood. And that's what we used to do, you know. I'm sure poke tal go y'all after the hunt, y'all took a big thing. But we still do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:09

Uh well, we we it's kind of funny. We got a couple guys, you know, we can hunt a couple days and don't see a buck. We got a couple guys, if they show up, we see bucks all the time. I'm not gonna we really do. I think every club's got that. Well, it it's uh that's true. It's very hard to keep a club going now, by the way. Yeah, you got to really spend time with your neighbors. Yeah, you got to let them know when you're hunting, and if you have a problem, let the right person know. We can address it right then. Yeah, it's just not going like when I was a kid, then you can go where you want to.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

No, it's a changing world. Well, we're super grateful, and it was it's been our joy to burn some wood with you this evening. We appreciate it, Mr. Toy. We want to thank all our listeners for tuning in again for another episode, and uh, we want you to ask you to continue to um make sure you share it with your friends. And and if you see us out in town, there's something you like or something you want us to bring up or a subject you want us to cover, man, speak to us, let us know. We'd love to hear it. We're gonna be transitioning to Scott in a little bit for another segment, uh another word segment, as he brings us a little uh inspiration for the things that are eternal, and we look forward to after that seeing you again on another Monday for mostly legal.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

And go cocks.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

And go cocks.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Well, good morning and welcome back to the word segment. I want to talk a little bit today about a summertime theme. Um most of you might have plans for vacation, maybe not to the beach, but to the mountains or somewhere else with family. Uh, but we go down the beach every year, and my family's been doing it for 50-something years, my mom's side of the family down to Cherry Grove. And one of the things I like to do when we get down there is to think you know devotionally about the word um with the themes of uh of creation and specifically uh the ocean and the seas. And so I wanted to read a little bit from Psalm eighty-nine verse nine and ten, or excuse me, first verse eight and nine, say this. O Lord God of hosts, who is mighty as you are, O Lord, with your faithfulness all around you, you rule the raging of the sea, and when its waves rise, you still them. And so the psalmist here, of course, focusing on uh God's glory, his majesty, his goodness, and then attributing those things to what he's made. And as the psalmist reflects on the ocean, uh he recognizes that God be calms and God has the power over all things uh that he has created. And you know, devotionally this helps us think uh about who God is, his goodness, reflect on him, how he is so much holier, more righteous, wiser, better than we are, puts our lives in perspective. God if he controls the sea, he certainly controls the things that are going on in our day-to-day. And so this centers us each day on who God is, who we are, uh his goodness in our life, and how he promises uh to be watching over us, guarding us, guiding us, protecting us, uh, who are in Christ Jesus. And so this is important just to come back to this uh rhythm of uh life, remembering these things, humbling ourselves before him, acknowledging his goodness, worshiping him and his faithfulness. Um and so whether you're in the mountains, I mean there's other passages we could go you could go to for the sake of time, but um or whether you're at the beach, uh looking for ways uh that God's word describes his goodness in where you are in creation life, and um and then let God use his word to turn your attention back to him so that we can stay around and focus on the things that matter the most. Hope you have a great week, hope you have a great uh focus this week emotionally on who God is and how good he is to us, and uh we'll talk to you soon.