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In Conversation with Terry Shepherd
In Conversation with Terry Shepherd, award-winning broadcaster and author of the Jessica Ramirez Thrillers. A deep dive into the people and support systems behind the stories we love.
In Conversation with Terry Shepherd
Chris Cheng - Proven in Blood
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Proving Loyalty in Blood: World War II's Nisei Soldiers with "Top Shot" Chris Cheng
Join author and broadcaster Terry Shepherd for a compelling conversation with History Channel's "Top Shot" champion, Chris Cheng, exploring his debut historical novel, Proven in Blood.
After the events of Pearl Harbor, protagonist Daniel Tanaka and his family are stripped of their constitutional rights and incarcerated behind barbed wire under Executive Order 9066. Despite this profound betrayal by his own government, Daniel volunteers for the U.S. Army to fight fascism in Europe. Inspired by the real-life heroes of the 100th Infantry Battalion and the 442nd Regimental Combat Team—the most decorated units in U.S. military history for their size and duration of service—Cheng’s novel examines the complex realities of war, brotherhood, and what it truly means to be an American.
Episode Highlights:
- The Spark of Inspiration: How a surge of anti-Asian hate crimes during the pandemic and a Google search for "Guns of World War II Asian Americans" launched Cheng's six-year research journey.
- Boots on the Ground: The profound impact of touring the Italian and French battlefields with Nisei Legacy Tours and meeting the European townspeople who still commemorate their Japanese American liberators.
- Brotherhood and Division: The intense cultural friction and eventual bonding between the "Buddhaheads" (Hawaiian Japanese Americans) and the "Katonks" (mainland Japanese Americans) during basic training.
- The Burden of Honor: The deep moral dilemmas faced by the Nisei soldiers, who fought not only to defeat the Nazis and liberate Jewish prisoners at Dachau, but to ensure they did not bring shame to their families back home.
- A Foodie’s Confession: Cheng takes a break from history to share his passion for Japanese Wagyu beef and a recent birthday celebration at San Francisco's Niku Steakhouse.
Mentioned in this Episode: Learn more about Chris Cheng's work, his advocacy, and grab your copy of Proven in Blood by visiting topshotchris.com.
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In conversation with Terry Shepard, award-winning broadcaster, narrator, and author, a deep dive into the writer's craft with the artists and support systems who create the stories we love.
SPEAKER_01After Pearl Harbor, Daniel Tanaka's country takes away his freedom. His family is sent behind barbed wire. Yet, Daniel volunteers to fight for the United States. On the battlefields of Italy and France, he faces an impossible question. What does it mean to prove your loyalty to a nation that has betrayed you? That is the heart of Proven in Blood, a novel of war, betrayal, and belonging, inspired by the Japanese-American soldiers of the 100th Infantry Battalion and 442nd Regiment Combat Team. The novel brings a remarkable World War II story into focus. Its author, our special guest, Chris Chang, spent six years studying military records and memoirs and walking the ground where those soldiers fought. You may know him as the self-taught marksman who won History Channel's Top Shot. Today, we'll talk about the history he uncovered, the characters he created, and what their story asks of America now. Top Shot, Chris Chang. Welcome to the conversation. It's great to be with you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm really excited to talk about Proven in Blood. What first drew you to the story of the 100th Infantry Battalion? Life is really interesting in a lot of ways. And so my introduction to the 100th Infantry Battalion and 442nd Regimental Combat Team was six years ago at the start of the pandemic. And I live here in San Francisco, and there was this spate of anti-Asian hate crimes that were happening here in SF in LA, New York, and Seattle, and other parts of the country. And it was incredibly upsetting to live in a city that I had always considered safe, very diverse and welcoming and just wonderful in so many ways. Yet this anti-Asian violence was something I had never experienced before as a native Californian. I grew up in Southern California, but San Francisco, I have extended family here. So San Francisco has always been a second home and very, very safe. As I was preparing, actually, to be on another TV show called The Go Big Show, it was on TBS and it was his extreme version of America's Got Talent. And the showrunner and celebrity judge was Snoop. And Snoop wanted extreme, dangerous acts. So naturally, he wanted marksmen and weapons experts to be on the show. So I was on this on the go big show. And as I was crafting my acts, one of my acts was the guns of World War II. And I Googled Guns of World War II Asian Americans because I wanted to see if I had some sort of personal connection to this. I shot an M1 Garand, an M1 Carbine, 1911, Remington 12 gauge pump shotgun. And the first search result, though, was the 100th Infantry Battalion. Their nickname is the Purple Heart Battalion. And this is one of two units. The other one is the 442nd Regimental Combat Team. They both have an intertwined history, but the point here is I'm a native Californian. I am half Japanese and of and half Chinese descent. And I have never heard of these guys at all. And when I learned that they are the most decorated unit in US military history for the size and duration of service, and that's just like that fact on its own. How come I've never even heard of them? And so as I learned more of their story and how they were part of 120,000 innocent Americans being incarcerated at the stroke of a pen, right? FDR signs Executive Order 9066 and without due process, unconstitutionally jailed innocent Japanese Americans. And many of them volunteered for the U.S. Army from the incarceration camps. And they accomplished so much on the battlefield to earn their honor, to restore their honor, to prove their loyalty and allegiance to America when nobody should have to risk your life to prove your loyalty to your country. But these men decided to do that. And so it was really an incredible story. And one of those moments for me, that single Google search changed my entire life. And it is six years later, here we are, proven in Blood is about to come to the masses. And I'm so terribly excited to talk to you and share this with you and your listeners.
SPEAKER_01Why choose a novel to tell the story?
SPEAKER_02Six years ago, when I was first inspired by these men and these soldiers after the Go Big Show, and I did a little kind of a verbal stage performance, like shooting the guns and also telling the story about the one and 442nd military units. And I told my husband at the end of that performance, I said, I need to continue telling this story. And I don't know exactly what form this is going to look like. I just finished this broadcast performance on TBS, and it was just such an inspiring moment for me, just TV stuff aside, just for me to bring to be a live narrator in front of Snoop and Rosario Dawson and Cody Rhodes and Jennifer Nettles. And they were very enthralled and invested in the story that I was telling. And I had some sidebars with all of the four celebrity judges after my performance. And they encouraged me, yeah, to continue telling the story. And so a book seemed to be the natural format for me because my first book, Shoot to Win, Proven in Blood, is my second book, but it is my first novel. And I've always wanted to dive into the more like fiction, non-fictional space. Shoot to win was an instructional book on the beginning marksmanship, telling my story of going from self-taught amateur to top shot champion and being the dark horse, beating all the military, law enforcement people. But Proven in Blood really exercised the creative side of my brain. That I'm also a musician and my my musician kind of experience, I get to write exercise that creative muscle. But writing a novel was a massive challenge that I love doing hard things. I love learning new things. I love doing hard things. And especially if I'm going to do it, I'm going to go all in. And when I looked at the space of World War II, historical fiction, and particularly with this topic, the Japanese Americans of World War II, that the fictional, the historical fiction space is pretty empty. And therefore, I saw an opportunity to tell this rich story of this protagonist, Daniel Tanaka. We see him go from the baseball field in UC Berkeley, where he's a star pitcher, and we then see him go home to Little Tokyo in LA. They get incarcerated as a family. He then goes to boot camp and then gets deployed to the fields, the battlefields of Italy and France. And the story ends in Dachau with freeing the Jewish prisoners. And there is so much that happens right between the start and the end of the protagonist's journey. And telling that story in a historical fiction novel format, I think is I'm I'm very happy for my choice because I got to control how much drama to pace out the excitement. And this is a war novel, right? This is at its core, it's a war novel. It's a love story. It's about love for country, love for family, love for your brethren who you are fighting side by side, and they are dying in wartime. And so that love that a family, of country, of your fellow soldier, and of course, there's a and then of course Daniel has a love interest, and Ginny is waiting for him back at home, and she's also involved in the war effort as best she can back here at home. So it was really an enjoyable experience to craft these characters, to install all the history, right? And every single time that I reread this manuscript, I feel all of the same emotions and excitement and the sadness and the tension, right? Even after reading this, I don't know, I probably read this 120 times at minimum. It's just for me, it was just such an exciting format to tell this story. And I think, readers, when you get your hands on Proven in Blood, that you will feel the conflict, this turmoil of I am fighting, the protagonist is fighting for the country that put him and his family behind barbed wire. Yet he still believes in America and our values, even though our country betrayed him and 120,000 innocent Japanese Americans.
SPEAKER_01Topshot Chris Chang is our special guest. We're talking about his first novel, Proven in Blood, his website, TopshotChris.com. You walked those battlefields. How did being there change the scene you had imagined from a distance?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, great question. I was doing some sort of casual research off and on while I was fully employed. But two years ago, I was able to quit my job and then pour my full attention into researching and writing proven in blood. And thankfully, I found a tour guide. Her name is Nora de Bevre. She runs an outfitter called Nisei Legacy Tours. She is the preeminent Boots on the Ground World War II Nisei World War Battlefield Tour expert. She's from Belgium, yet she's so invested in this Japanese-American war experience. And so she organizes all of these World War II battlefield tours. She has this amazing network of World War II survivors, right? These were children who grew up in these Italian towns, these French towns that were liberated by the men of the 100th and the 442. And so for me and these other tour group attendees, we got to dine and go to commemoration ceremonies every year on the anniversary of the liberation of these towns. They celebrate and commemorate these Nisei, right? Nisei is the word for second-generation Japanese Americans. And so oftentimes the 100th and 442 are referred to as the Nissei or the Nisei soldiers. And so it was fascinating for me to be in these Italian mountain towns, small, right? There's like fairly small Italian and French mountain towns, and they are celebrating these Nissei soldiers. And they will usually pick one every year and they will talk about his accomplishments, where he was born. They have pictures of this one soldier that they're commemorating posted in the convention hall. And for me, I did not have any relatives who fought in World War II, but all the other battlefield tour attendees were basically families of veterans from the 100th and 442. And for many of them, it was their first time going to these battlefields where their father or their uncle fought. Many of them died. Many of them got injured. And so for me to see how meaningful meeting the townspeople who are alive and well, right? They have lived great lives because of the sacrifices that the Nisei soldiers made on the battlefield. And they were such a tremendous fighting force. The 1042 were often called in to break through where other battalions were unable to. So they were a premier fighting force. And for an Asian American like me who had never heard of these guys, when I learned about the history and the truth, I was so personally inspired. And I put all of that into Proven in Blood, right? All the characters in Proven in Blood are either inspired by real soldiers, but I also have some real soldiers in Proven in Blood as well. The major General Dahlqist, Colonel Pence, these are some of the actual leaders who were on the battlefield with these men, and that brings another layer of realism. And I bring their personalities and their characters to the story to really highlight some of the drama, but also some of the bonds and brotherhood that some of these white officers who were in charge of a segregated Japanese American unit, there were some allegations or fears of racism, but a lot of these white officers treated these any other Americans, which is exactly what the Nisei wanted. They didn't want to be special. And many of the commanding officers who were white treated these Japanese American soldiers just like anybody else. And so many inspirational moments on the battlefield and in basic training as well. And I bring that all to proven in blood.
SPEAKER_01How does Daniel's understanding of loyalty evolve over the course of the novel?
SPEAKER_02That's a great question. He's a 19-year-old college student, and Pearl Harbor happens, and then his whole life changes. And he goes through this experience of feeling betrayed by the U.S. government, right? He's an innocent U.S. citizen who has done nothing wrong. He is in an outdoor prison camp in some of the most terrible, physically challenging conditions. And then there's this opportunity to volunteer for the U.S. Army. And so they allowed the Nisei to volunteer for the U.S. Army. And many of them did so from the incarceration camps. In the camps, there was quite a division amongst many of the families, right? So some families were very supportive of their sons going to fight for America. And then the other half were very much against it, right? Why why would you risk your life and possibly die for the country that put us here in this outdoor prison camp? And for many of these men, they wanted to be able to say, I volunteered to fight on the battlefield for freedom and to liber help liberate Jewish prisoners, to defeat fascism, to defeat the Nazis. They were willing to risk it all. And for Daniel to go through that pivot point and then to go to basic training, there was another big moment. So the 442 was composed of Hawaiianers and then mainland Japanese Americans. And there's a big cultural difference. If you've ever vacationed in Hawaii, it's palm trees and coconuts and luaus and ukuleles and everything's kind of chill and relaxed. On the mainland, a lot of the Japanese Americans were more white-collar, college educated, and there's very big cultural differences between sort of island life and white-collar college-educated life. And so there's a lot of conflict in boot camp between the Hawaiianers and the mainlanders. The nicknames were the Buddhaheads and the Katanks. And so there was a very dramatic and also just very inspirational moments at boot camp and then also on the battlefield between the Buddha heads and the Katanks. And Daniel going through this metamorphosis of learning what leadership is also about. Leadership is not always by rank. Just because you're a captain or whatever title doesn't naturally mean that people are going to listen to you or that they're going to follow you. And so this whole conflict with the Hawaiians was very much about like, how do you bridge a cultural gap and trade shared experiences for proven in blood? Ultimately, how do you form trust with these your fellow soldiers who you're putting your life in their hands and vice versa? And then, yeah, we see all of the time and the training and the bonding that happens in boot camp pay off and play out on the battlefield where some of the most dramatic battles of World War II happened. I did not really know that there was an Italian campaign in World War II, right? And then even before the Italian campaign was the North Africa campaign, as they were moving up to try and push the Nazis back into Germany. The French part of Proven in Blood is Eastern France. So all of these amazing, incredible battles, moments of heroism, of stupidity, also, and then trying to correct for leaders' stupid decisions and choices. They were steady and focused and dedicated to the goal and to the mission, which was to win the war, but also to restore their family's honor, to prove their loyalty to America, and to do it with honor.
SPEAKER_01Topshot Chris Chang is our special guest. He's talking to us about the riveting novel he's written, proven in blood. Topshotchris.com is his website. Your book explores belonging in America. What does Daniel want from his country that milit military honors alone cannot give him?
SPEAKER_02Daniel wants what I believe most Americans want, which is to be able to live free in our country, to be able to achieve the American dream, and to not get special treatment. Our conversation with race is complex, especially in the context of our government initiated a systemically racist executive order that targeted Americans of Japanese, German, and Italian descent. But Daniel wants to be treated like every other American, right? That he's no better, no worse. He wants the same rights as every other American. And for me, this is such a strong and meaningful message that still applies to right now. The world that we are living through, we are seeing all sorts of tyrannical actions by the government and people being unfairly targeted based on their race and their background, due process being just ignored, right? And I think me and I think for a lot of people, we learn either by reading, of course, but also by experiencing or at least experiencing the emotions of what certain life experiences are. And so even if you are not Japanese American or Asian American, when you read Proven in Blood, you will feel what it's like to be discriminated against by the government. And through the characters in Proven in Blood, you will see this very unique, and I would say very distinctive American experience of Japanese Americans fighting for freedom and earning their loyalty to our country, improving their loyalty in blood. And if nothing else, when you come home, your soldier medals on your chest, and many soldiers do not get a hero's welcome. And then in fact, like that was the experience for many of the men of the 442. Some of them did get a hero's welcome, but many of them came home to shuttered businesses, right? They lost their businesses. They lost their homes. New people are living in their homes because the government just took their homes and sold them. Or you had squatters just basically appropriated homes and businesses and property that used to be owned by Japanese Americans. It was a matter of then rebuilding, right? Rebuilding your life, coming home after the war too. And that was just a whole nother experience. But for the men and the characters and proven in blood, it was very much about coming home alive, obviously, from the war, but doing so with pride and with honor. And in Japanese culture, not bringing shame to your family is a big part of the culture. There's this one moment in Proven in Blood where basically the parents are saying, don't bring shame to our family and reading in between the lines, if you don't make our family proud, don't come home. There's a lot of gravitas, right? Japanese culture is very interesting. A classical sort of American approach to a parent sending their children off to war might be be strong and make us proud. It's one thing to say, make us proud. It's a whole nother thing to say the inverse of that and say, don't bring shame to our family, right? It's a different take on the similar sentiment, but I think resonates, it resonated with Daniel a lot more. I not only need to come home alive, but I cannot bring shame to my family through this experience. I come from a military family. My father was in, I fought in Vietnam. My in-laws' Air Force fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. And I know lots of veterans too who come back scarred, not just physically, but emotionally. And they see things on in battle that civilians we don't see. And they make that sacrifice for us. And on the battlefield, there are all of these ethical and moral dilemmas. And so Daniel, the protagonist, has a strong moral center. But as we know, in war, your morals get challenged. And sometimes you are forced to do things that go against what you were born and raised to do. It was interesting when I was crafting Daniel, the character, and trying to decide what is the arc here, right? Does he come out of the war? Does he come out of the war broken? That could have ended the storyline. Oh, is he just a broken or does he come out stronger and better for the experience? It's a position he never wanted to be in, but he rose to the challenge. And it's one of the lesser-told stories of World War II. And for World War II and history buffs, I promise you, Proven in Blood will be a very fresh take on World War II. Right now, this is very much my life's work. And I'm very, very excited for Proven in Blood to finally come to the masses.
SPEAKER_01We're living in a time of great political and social divisiveness. What do you hope Proven in Blood can teach us today?
SPEAKER_02I love that question. For me, I often think a lot about what does it mean to be an American? And for I think for many Americans, by virtue of being born here and you're born with a title, I'm an American. Sure, that's one version of what it means to be an American. But I believe that it goes, it has to go beyond that. To be an American has to mean that you understand our country's history, first and foremost. Then you need to understand our values of liberty and freedom and democracy. And then the next and final step is you have to go and defend and promote our values. And that can come in many shapes and forms. It can be as simple as volunteering for a neighborhood community group, right? It can be as simple as going to the ballot box. It can be donating $5 to your favorite political candidate or to a nonprofit that's helping retain or grow and defend democratic values here in our country, voluntaring your time, right? Being a poll worker, getting involved with some kind of civic organization. But very specifically, proven in Blood is about identity, not just national identity, right? What does it mean to be an American? I have experienced my fair share of racism through my life. And for me, I shoulder shrug it a lot of it's like, whatever, sticks and stones may break my bones. I don't care about whatever racist stuff someone's gonna spew at me. And so there's this constant otherization that comes with racism, right? Oh, you are this racist label and name and you don't belong. And then one message that I hope Proven in Blood sends to people is that it is not up to the government or it's not up to other people to tell you where you belong. And whether you are American. Every country has a dark history, right? The incarceration of 120,000 innocent Japanese Americans is one of our country's worst moments. But we can still belong in America, right? Japanese Americans proved in blood that we belong here in America. We did not let the government tell us that we didn't. And I think that mentality and that mindset is exactly what we need more of today. And it's a mentality and a mindset that it doesn't matter what era we're in, Terry, right? 2026, 2035. For the for as long as, and this was really a universal theme, right? That you belong where you believe you belong. And that's ultimately what's important. You believe in where you belong and who you are as a person. Don't let the government, don't let other people try and tell you otherwise.
SPEAKER_01You have done a ton of interviews. Is there a question you've never been asked that you wish that you had?
SPEAKER_02I'm a foodie. So I often don't get asked questions about food. So I think maybe the question that I would love to be asked is maybe what's one of my kind of favorite meals that I've had. I can tell you, literally two days ago, my husband's birthday, we had a group of 14 here in San Francisco at a place called Niku Steakhouse. It's a Japanese American steakhouse here in San Francisco. A4 Wagyu Tomahawks, and the cocktails were crazy amazing. The service was wonderful. My husband's college friends and some of our old Google colleagues were all in attendance. And to see Japanese food culture is so front and center in American culture. And even 30 years ago, ooh, in the 90s, if you said you ate sushi, ooh, people would kind of give you a little weird side eye and a little, ooh, scrunchy face, oh, raw fish. And now, not just sushi is super popular, but ramen and udon, katsu curry, Japanese food has really taken center stage here in America. So that warms my heart. But all that aside, I love me a good steak. And man, Japanese blog you beef is phenomenal.
SPEAKER_01He's a foodie, he's a shooter, he's a great advocate for LGBTQ for Asian Americans, and now an author of Proven in Blood. His name is Topshot Chris Chang. The website is TopshotChris.com. Chris Chang, this has been fantastic. Thanks so much for the conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you so much for having me on, Terry. I can't wait for Proven in Blood to get into readers' hands.
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