Bec Fox = Wild Fox

In this conversation we have the absolute pleasure and privilege of chatting with Bec Fox, a self proclaimed 'wild fox'. Foxy's relationship with the natural world began from very young age, free roaming the  family farm which her parents were regenerating. This deep connection to the land led to Bec's love of nature, going ahead and  establishing nature camps for city kids from age thirteen.  

There was little doubt with this upbringing Bec was destined to work in the outdoors however as she reveals here this path was far from traditional.  Foxy shares four decades of tales encompassing : naked solos; leading and mentoring  and a deep spiritual connection with the land. Something she delights in sharing with the next generation of Foxy's. 

Enjoy the chat 

Bridget and Pete   

Connect with Bec 

https://becfox.com.au/ 

Contact Bridget and Pete 

Email: 2roampodcast@gmail.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Greetings and salutations, folks, and welcome to episode six of the two roam podcast, where we have the absolute pleasure and privilege of speaking to Beck Fox, aka Wild Fox, the first of the Foxies. The creators of the Two Roam Podcast would like to acknowledge and pay our respects to the traditional owners of the land called Australia and their connection to land, water, and sky. We further would like to recognize that this culture is the oldest living culture. Uh greetings and salutations, folks, and uh welcome to another fine episode of the Two Roam podcast, where we're very excited to have the first of the Foxies with us today. Can I introduce the lovely Beck Fox?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Great to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Well, the way the podcast normally starts, Beck, is we ask uh our guests to describe their relationship with the natural world and how perhaps that has changed in their life or maybe it hasn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

And how it came to be in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

No, that's a really great question, actually. Um I guess I was born in the 70s, and so I landed on this earth very much um a little wild fox and wanting to be naked as often as I could and outdoors, and I was very lucky that I had a great um family who we did a lot of adventuring, and we um first of all lived in Melbourne there. We bought a property out at Drummond uh central sort of Victoria, and we just roamed like free natured spirits children. Uh so that's where my love of nature began, I think. Uh it's really interesting, it's a good question. So I'm 55 now. Um, I certainly don't see myself as being old yet. Um, and my journey with nature has definitely developed and deepened, and but probably deepened really early, in some early onset of nature connection. I I really found myself at peace in nature, and when we were living on the farm, when we made that move from Melbourne to the farm to live there permanently, mum and dad were very holistic and you know back in the day a bit hippie-ish, you know, decided to get out of the rat race and off the treadmill.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

So, can I just ask Beck before you move on? So, were you living in an urban sort of environment in Melbourne?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, Doncaster, good old Donnie. So, um yeah, very much uh in the in the inner cities, only suburbs of Melbourne. And um I look I remember those years and I had tested them. So I we probably moved we bought the farm and went there every weekend, probably from the age of four, and it got to the point where all of us just didn't want to leave the farm on Sunday night to get back.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

And uh where was the farm how far from Melbourne and what area was that in?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

It's about past Plinton, so about 100k or so north northwest of Melbourne on the way to Bendigo. Um, and it was just a really it was a very much a 60-acre um flat paddock, flat paddocks with nothing much on there but a creek at the very back. But we're really lucky it bordered onto uh Bell Topper Park, which is a state forest, and so we had hundreds of acres to explore. And mum and dad um slowly re-regenerated and re-vegetated the property and bought raw land beside us, and it became quite a you know sustainable farm with native water, native trees. And in fact, they went into nature gardening and um introduced proteas, believe it or not, into Australia. So it's it's a lot it's a long story, but we lived, we grew up with chooks and horses, and you know, we we milked our cows and all that sort of stuff. So very, very much an organic, free-spirited lifestyle where where we'd come home from school, jump on the horses' back, you know, they meet us at the bus stop or close to the bus stop and would jump on their backs without any saddles or reins or or halters and just jump on and they'll gallop us home. And um, and that's how we started the end of our school day every day. So yeah, just roamed around and explored that area and just fell in love with the bush and and the simplicity of life.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Wow. Um, well, I'll defer to Bridget for this because um the podcast seems to be developing quite the relationship with farmers.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Really? I'm actually more intrigued. Um, because did you say your parents regenerated the property? How long did that take and how like how long before you started to see sort of the I guess the fruits of your labour? Oh respect.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

It was hats off to mum and dad. Um they're just incredible, they're persistent, and they just were so passionate about it. So it took years and years. And back in the 80s, there was a massive drought in Victoria, and that nearly killed off nearly everything. Like we literally they put a bore down, so we had water that ran dry, and we literally, you know, we're feeding the animals, of course. We made sure the animals were sustained, um, but everything pretty well died, so we had to start again almost from scratch. But you go back there now, and it's the most beautiful property. It's just covered in you know, beautiful trees and wattles and eucalypts, and just it's a gorgeous property. It's like it's still my house still remains on that property, it's just beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah, well done, them. Well done, them. I've always been so interested interested in how people do that. And I've been watching quite a few people do it overseas, so it's really nice to hear that people are doing it here as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

And so a privileged privilege, not with um, you know, with wealth, but certainly privileged with experience with our kick as our as children. And we had a beautiful holiday home that was generationally handed down uh right on the Najin Nature Reserve or the Najin Conservation Area. And so our holidays would be spent there. We never did overseas travel or any other, even any other travel tour about 18, and basically spent all our holidays that we could on the national parks and exploring wild beaches and bushwalking through these beautiful, incredible places. So nature for me has always been part of my life, which led me into outro education. So I thought, well, I don't want to be in an office, don't want to do anything else, but introduce and bring people into nature to experience what I experienced. And we all have experienced as a family in nature. So when I was about 13, actually, I decided to um I felt sorry for the city kids that we left behind. And we had a lot of friends, of course, with mum and dad growing up there, and they had children our age. I said, look, why don't we invite the city kids up to the farm for their holidays and I'll run a camp? And back in those days there wasn't any such thing as camps, you know, you knew a little bit about American camps, but nothing else. And so mum said, I'll be the caterer, and dad said, I'll be the transport. And I said, Well, I'll be the logistics coordinator and the activity coordinator, and I'll organise my siblings to help out. And we literally ran this, you know, probably a week-long program, and it was a raging success, so much so that that became a bit of a gig that happened occasionally, so not occasionally, it happened a few more times after that, um, because of the demand. Like, and these are all people we knew, it was like the bit of a snowball effect. And I thought, I want to do this with my career, this is awesome, you know, because we we could see how much people got out of even just collecting eggs and going for you know roaming horse rides and you know, going swimming with the horses in the dam, whatever it was, it the simplicity of life was just an absolute uh beautiful thing to witness. We enjoyed and witness how other people grew confidence and um self-identity and a whole range of things and saw life from another indoors, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah, I mean, in that way when you're involved in the ecosystem that's directly around you, it's definitely like it immerses you straight away. Absolutely. Very much a mirror of my upbringing. Um and my father used to bring school students uh a lot of the different uh subjects would have times where they'd come out to our property and just camp on our property as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

So that's incredible. Wow, that's I love that. I love that. Well, well, anyway, I went off to Bendio then, really, um, because it was very close by. I wanted to do a university course. Um, my parents are very much about we would love all our children to go to uni and do something they love and they're passionate about. My twin sister was passionate about animals, so she became a you know a vet and did ag science, and I did outdoor education and fell in love with that and actually got involved in um Eagle Hawk Health and Community Centre, running what they called back in the youth at risk. So basically adventure therapy programs and again walk them out to the property, would you believe? And doing really low um skilled or skill-based activities and journeys. So very much, you know, let's get the young children or young um teenagers, you know, picking up a pack, you know, organizing a menu, cooking for themselves or as a small group, and took them into the areas around Bendigo where they could actually still access after we were well and surely gone, all the programs were finished. And we bit ran those for 12 months and turned over the participants every 12 months, and that was in a really rewarding program that I was involved in through those three years at Bendigo. And then from then on, yeah, I just it kept on developing and developing.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

So that program back was whilst you're at university studying?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, so I I'm not one to sit still. Um, I love to learn. Pete's nodding, he's known me for quite a few years. So yeah, I was tapped on the shoulder, I was a first-year student, and um one of the third years said, Oh, we really need a young, uh young female leader, and we love your energy. Would you like to be part of it? And at first I felt the imposter syndrome said, No, you don't need me, I've I'm I've got nothing compared to a second and third year. And they said, No, you've got exactly what we need. So um, you know, I relate really well with people. I could certainly relate to um young people who'd been as you know, strife or disadvantaged, I guess, or on the poverty line. I had you know similar experiences, not disadvantaged anyway, but I could relate. Um, being a country girl too, you know, bendigo kids were like you know my little brothers and sisters, so that that just blossomed. I loved it. When I finished Bendigo though, I um was a bit I was you know, I majored in rock climbing, I absolutely loved the years at Bendigo, I loved the adventure. We did pretty hardcore adventures, but the most magical times were for me were the simplicity of times. So going out on silos, you know, doing bushwalks and sitting on mountain tops. It wasn't the you know, you know, driving at home, you know, 12, you know, 20 kilometers a day or yes, you know, running rapids or doing you know epic climbs, multi-pitch climbs. I love being on the rock, I love being in the environment. So I was quite disillusioned when I finished the outdoor edge course in that I didn't want to go down that line, which is very much, oh, you know, go to OEG, outward bound, you know. And I thought, no, I don't want to do that. So I actually went into youth work for a while, and I thought, no, what I want to do is do my masters and actually investigate and research more thoroughly into the spiritual experience of nature and whether what I and I'm not doing spiritual as in theological, I'm talking about um being moved, connected with nature, being connected. I I have a really innate sense of picking up on energies on on land and in in country, and I wanted to know whether people from the city could experience the same thing, or was it just something you had to learn to over years and over time of being in places and spaces? And so that became my driver. So I moved to Queensland and Divine.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I want to I want to ask a question though. What what actually came about from that study? That sounds super interesting. Yeah, it was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Yeah, it becomes a fantastic study. I basically um snowball snowball qualitative research and so chose some women from in-city Melbourne who'd never been in any other natural environment other than the local park, or you know, a very much an urbanised park. Yep um and collected, I think this group of eight women, and then I we actually went for a walk into the Crow Jingalong National Park, into Red River area, and we walked in. So I had many interviews beforehand, and then we walked in all together, and then I sent them off out similar to a vision um vision quest, but a female version, I guess. So beautiful. Everyone had a tarp, had their dehydrated fruits and nuts. Um, and basically here's an area that you can go by. And we had, you know, of course, ranger approval and all that sort of thing. You can't go past this point or that point, but you have this huge amount of nature and wild space to go and explore. Just go and be with yourself for three days and two clear nights, and then we'll come back together and we'll talk, and then we'll walk out together, and then we'll do post um program um activities and everything. But the outcome was that every single woman, um, once they moved through their fear and really dealt with their own inner demons, and a lot came to screaming, yeah, crying, um, sleepless nights, nightmares, whatever it was, it all came up. And then they once they released it, they then became in awe and wonder of their place and their their meaning in life, their insignificance, yeah, and how small they were, and how they could then push away all their, you know, their whatever they were, what whether it be trauma or past or whatever. Shut up. And they just became clear, so their vision became really open. So they walked in not knowing what I was studying either. They thought I was studying whether they could survive, you know, like logistically, for they eat the food and not get what the side effects were, but it wasn't as a deeper study. So every single woman experienced a spiritual connection to land, um, the space, or the animals, like animal totems and so forth. And everyone had a sense of there are spirits here, where there are ancestors here in this place.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

So super interesting because I also in my masters did a mirror-like study, not quite so such a mirror there. Um, in my undergrad, I did a study of spirituality and nature, and then in my master's, I did the feminine connection to nature.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

No way! How are we just leading to that?

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Um, but that was a really interesting one because it was similar to what you're talking about, uh, where, you know, not wanting to do this conquer, push, push, push, but that deeper intimacy with nature that exists out there. And when I say feminine connection to nature, it doesn't mean just women, it means like, you know, the masculine is that push, push, push, but there's lots of men who actually prefer that intimate way of being as well with nature. Um, and I actually did a group of women who were all different types of professional skiers. So they had either done huge expeditions across the Arctic, the polar regions, or they were like Olympic-based skiers, etc. And I had a huge range of different um amounts of in nature that they were, I guess. And all of them, there were some really interesting quirks that came from it. One was around their intuition, and then the other was that they all, without fail, spoke to the mountains and spoke to the moon as they and all of them were like, it's gonna sound a little bit crazy, but I have a conversation with the moon as I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yep, yep, and the stars. The stars are yeah, they didn't they didn't want to sleep at night. Often they would like walk, they put their tarp up for security and safety, and then they'll actually sleep out and with it looking up at the stars. That was a really important thing. Yeah. That connection. That's incredible. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

I'm just a connector here, folks.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Anyway, after that, I had an opportunity to do a PhD and I started that and I thought this is not for me, I don't want to do another three years of um study, and also um I'm very much an extrovert, so I needed to be amongst people, and and also I'm a driver of change. I felt like I'd have more of an influence if I was actually in the field and doing something with people rather than um for me spending three years studying. So it wasn't my thing. So I um exited that and then got into actor editing, which I absolutely love. But of course, on the side of this, I always I always viewed this like I I love my work, and I've had a diverse background of outdoor education, outdoor recreation I'm currently and have been for the last 15 years a corporate coach and using eventual mediums and outdoor spaces for for learning about leadership and team building and so forth. But I do things to um have influence on people and to and I get such joy out of seeing um transformation. I love it, and I was always hyped up after a program or a session. Um, but my biggest driver is my own time in nature. Yeah, that clarity and being able to come back. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So travelled a lot of Australia, done a lot of expeditions. Probably my most um I've got many, many challenging expeditions I've done, so you know, 12 to 14-day expeditions, of course, in Australian wild areas. Um with a lovely Pete here was fantastic. Um, but the most challenging expedition I've done on my feet carrying a backpack was a seven-day naked solo on Morton Island.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

On Morton Island, one of my most favourite places. Um, so I guess that brings us to our next question, anyway. If you want to delve into it, like um what is your most memorable outdoor moments, remarkable outdoor moments?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

It's really it's a such a hard one. Like if I if I if I think about a pivotal point in my life, that solo was so crucial for my own development. Because how old would I been? It would have been 23, um, just moved to Queensland, wasn't really sure where I wanted to take my career, or but oh no, I knew it's gonna be an outdoor, but I didn't know what I needed to find inner strength to do my masters, I guess, and really follow that path rather than be diverted to do something really practical or something really like, oh, this would be a good research topic, Dick. We need someone to study this. Will you do that? It's like, no, I want to do this. I know it, and at the time it was really out there, like I had lectures like that's too wishy-washy, like that's right. And then I had Carla Henderson on the other side of the world going, go girl, do it, you know. So it was really just really interesting to us. But that was really for me, like I yeah, I that connection to nature and even in a different state was so powerful that it led me, like, you know, this is what I'm this is my purpose for life, getting people in nature simplist simply simplistically, um, getting rid of all of our um stresses and and just being sitting with nature and letting nature be our teacher and our our guide.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Pretty well.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Well, historically, I actually uh met you s shortly after that uh particular solo hike that you're talking about, and I guess um I'll ask the question because I feel like I can. Because of your limited amount of uh outerwear, um, did you feel that that provided more of a connection to the natural world than walking around in a whole lot of clothes?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, I will clarify I had boots on because if anyone's walked on the island, you know how scratchy it is, and very it's quite harsh country off track, and I went off track. Um, but I absolutely loved it because even walking at a natural um natural pace, you can't do that when you're naked. Yeah. There's lots of bushes, and I'm not talking about my bush, there's lots of bushes that are going to be scratching you and um tearing your your skin apart. So I actually found I had a I had a route plan, you know, because you know we had to, you know, like always. I like to have a I love looking at maps, I love um envisioning where I'm going. If that being, but then of course when you arrive in country, you then go, Oh, this is quite different to what I thought. So then I actually threw the maps out and went, I need to follow the landscape. So I need to follow the ridges, but on the west side, not the east side, because the west side has softer ferns, and the east side has really harsh you know, umxia and haikia and that sort of thing. So I ended up actually following the land, walking through the land at its pace that it allowed me, which is really quite remarkable. And that was really a learn one really key learning thing for me. It also meant I was going with the sun going down and sun rising because um you know, mozys and all that sort of thing was a big impact as well. Yeah, yeah, seeking shade instead of putting sunscreen on, all those sorts of things, like really slowing it down. Yeah, definitely make it gave me a greater greater connection to the pro to land for sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

So, another logistical question here because modern-day Morton is quite populated with four wheel drivers.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Four wheel drivers. It's really interesting. I knew it was then, and I had to um really squ squash my feet. I'd never been to the island before either, so it's a whole new landscape for me. And I thought, well, I need to keep well off the tracks, and there's only one moment I I hopped on a track and I would have walked about a hundred metres up it, and except for the very beginning. So when off the ferry and into a certain point, I wore clothes. And I when I talk to what to make clothes, I'm talking about some old you know, cotton shorts and a cotton shirt and nothing else. Yep. But and there was another time I had to cross a track, or I wanted to cross a track to get to some lakes, and I heard a four-wheel drive coming, and I was like a wild animal, like I literally ran into the bush and hid, and I wasn't too far off the track, and the and the the foliage at that particular point you could have seen me, but I just literally ducked down like an animal would and just watched this four-wheel drive go past, and it just seemed like such an um invasion of noise and privacy. And I actually felt fear, and I thought this is ridiculous. Like, I don't need to feel fear, but yeah, I naturally my instinct was to hide, run away, and and not be seen, which made me relate to a lot of animals and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Yeah, it's interesting how that can happen. Like the longer that you immerse yourself into nature, what becomes completely and foreign too. Absolutely. Uh, after we did a really long, very slow journey hike through New Zealand as part of our undergraduate degree, uh, we were picked up with a bus at the end of it. And I remember getting into the bus and just being like, oh my god, this is so incredibly fast. And just feeling so uncomfortable being in this bus. And we were even driving super slow, like we would have been driving 40 kilometers an hour at maximum through that particular area. Um, but it just felt so speedy in comparison to the very slow journey that we. we've just been on. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Absolutely. No, I completely agree. And um my my my current and my life my biggest passion in the last 10 years has been, I'm relating to this moment, um, has been adventure motorbiking. So I've got onto the venture bike. Yeah no sorry I met my beautiful soul mate Dave and and he's in adventure motorbiking and you know I did two up with him for a year. I went forget this give me I need a bike. So yeah I've absolutely fallen in love with it. But the thing is we don't adventure ride just to go on you know tracks and roads we adventure ride to go slowly through wild places. So and yeah we stay on tracks we don't go off track or anything like that. We've got minimal impact we camp a lot um and we've done a lot of international travel doing that as well as a huge amount around Australia and it's so nice to be on a motorbike because you are not enclosed in a vehicle so you can hear everything um you can smell everything you can feel everything and you're you're going at a traveling a lot slower pace and you have to notice everything too because you've got more you know rocks and you know trees and all sorts so it's it's not as quiet and as peaceful as bushwalking there's no doubt about it but it is a a new passion of mine so I absolutely love getting into these areas on a bike and feeling that sense of freedom and being able to get to places that you can't get to yeah really special. Wow there's a couple of remarkable adventure moments stories already could you perhaps regale us with another one of your remarkable adventure moments please it's really interesting Pete I think um I've done a lot of travel overseas and especially recently and even before that I did some expeditions and um some you know some beginner mountaineering in Canada and so forth but I think it always I always have to reflect on home like being close to home. So um I'm not sure what the national park is called now but up near Lawn Hill like it used to be called Lawn Hill National Park. So um did a beautiful 14 or 15 day expedition through that area and the red gorges and traveling from water hole to water hole was absolutely spectacular. So you know again self-sufficient carried all our food for that amount of time but most importantly it was like the absolute energy on that land was just unbelievable. Like I've never experienced anything like it. So we would walk into an area and it'd be like oh you just literally your your hair on your skin just stood up it's like we need to stop here and back off like we're not welcome here. But it wasn't the non-welcoming it's like there's something here and then you turn around and you know head east or west whatever and there was a you know incredible boring. So just things like that and then you just sit and you just like just just sit because you you you're just completely hit with this energy. So those sort of moments are the ones that I will try cherish for the rest of my life. You know coming across rock art that the rangers won't even didn't even know was there. And just having those those spiritual encounters and that that that that um feeling of absolute privilege to be in a space and accessing those sort of places on your own will um are the most special for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yeah absolutely yeah that deepest sacred listening.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Exactly yes exactly right yeah yeah absolutely and of course going on from that like I now love going to other countries and realising and recognizing our indigenous cultural heritage and how similar it is with everyone else in the world. Yeah so going to Vietnam and going to um last year I was lucky enough to run a trip into Vietnam into and actually work in the community for a week with the poorest community in Vietnam so north in northern Vietnam in a tiny village and recognizing the connection of the same simplicity the lifestyle of community that that you know our indigenous you know cultural heritage also beholds. And it's just like wow this is here in Vietnam too and then going to you know Sri Lanka and then going up to Cambodia wow it's here too so it's everywhere in the world it's actually being open to that experience and open to that awareness that's really um quite remarkable. So I love it.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah I've actually started to discover amongst all my travels as well is that uh a lot of the elders' stories that they tell are actually very similar amongst many different cultures across the world. And that I find incredibly remarkable as well is that they foretell a lot of the same things. Absolutely and it's like these people have lived on different continents and they still have the same foretelling stories that match.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yep exactly right and I'm and I'm a baby like I'm still such a a beginner in learning like I feel incredibly insignificant and and um incompetent and undereducated in this area but yet I've got the spiritual connection to it. It's it's really quite bizarre. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Well I'll I'll just ask a question of both of you perhaps and make a comment as this is where the conversation's going and on the two Rome podcasts we seem to go where the conversation goes without really having an agenda I guess my question is both of you as uh long-term educators in the outdoors that slow pedagogy that you're both talking about where we actually slow down enough to appreciate those concepts that you've both articulated so well why do you think that many programs are reluctant to do that?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Look is it the sell? Is it the marketing is it the expectation is it the Western wise thinking I'm I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

When I did my masters it was within three countries in Europe said that it was between Britain Germany and Norway and they collected people from all around the world to be able to join this master's and we all had to speak about how our connection to the outdoors and outdoor education specifically in our countries happened. So we learnt a lot about I guess what people's outdoor education the principles of what it was based on and I found that in Australia and New Zealand we really base it out very closely to the British conquering sort of ideal whereas there's a lot of cultures that have a very slow connection like I mean in Norway it's free love to live it's free air life it's not about like a destination it's about slowly going through nature to basically enjoy the richness of that itself. And in Germany they have this concept of being on the way which means that you discover things slowly and you get curious about what's around you and you look for things and feel things etc and I just feel like our let's say that our outdoor education within school systems is very much based on the imperial way rather than what it could perhaps branch into in the future. And there are programs that I've come across that are specifically very much based on that slow learning and they have by far been my absolute favourite programs.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah absolutely absolutely I agree with that and even the way we language things like you know that famous quote um why do we climb mountains or why do we or how do we why do we conquer mountains I think is the word you know because it's there it's like well are we conquering a mountain really like you know let's experience a journey and let's you know love that space but do we need to conquer anything so yeah it's that masculine and I hate to say masculine but that that style of approach is definitely not my and that's why it rubbed the wrong way with me when I finished my being a guy so I love I love the course but I I definitely was like this this pedagogy is not for me so I need to I need to change the way I change the way I wanted to live off yeah yeah the thing I'd probably add is we seem to go from a very time oriented uh society in the urban environment and and not all outdoor education programs but most go out into the natural environment but still are very much driven by the constructs of urban society time.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

And I think within that it's very difficult to practice slow pedagogy when your leader teacher instructor is going oh I have to be here at eight o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah I'd agree. Or on top of that that the students are not allowed free time. Yeah we we have to entertain. Yeah it's crazy it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Yeah well um many of you who know me know that I managed and um built Kindel and After Education Center and the programs from scratch there for 16 years. And yes we had a we had a time tab it's a great example Pete and I'd say to every staff member and facilitator it doesn't matter if you've been if you've got it on time table you're doing AbSell for this hour and a half, two hours it doesn't mean you need to do absiling for an hour and a half, two hours use that time to walk and journey if if it isn't going to get the outcomes that we we're trying to achieve on the program don't do it at all. You know um go into the bush sit the students down have that solo time so and free time was essential that was actually we program free time so then kids could get out into the bush and actually enjoy their time and their freedom of nature play and you know I remember some teachers being absolutely shocked that we let the you know let students climb trees you know heaven forbid so and things like that. Yeah so there's certainly um some risk management around it but yeah that's what we we wanted to do and as a as a result we had enormous amount of support and a lot of schools repeat clients for you know over a decade because they wanted that experience not the cookie cutter fast paced timetable must have every child must have two zip lines or two absorb it was because I said no that's not important I felt like this is not important the outcomes and the program delivery is important. So important sure but you are you are up against it sometimes that's for sure I would love to see more programs with that with far more um journey based and slow paced that would be incredible far far better outcomes yes I agree we have uh we have some beautiful insects flying around around us and um having a good old buzz buzzfeed on us at the Reeseville recording rooms I love it I just really wanted to throw that in well I hope I'm hoping that this podcast if any if anyone is doubting about their own pedagogy and their own philosophy around aggregate has got some thoughts and gives you momentum and some courage to enter that space and actually maybe push back on some programs say you know what this isn't this doesn't it doesn't it grinds with my heart um I want to do something a bit different. And I and I I and I take my hat off to many universities and other courses that are actually swinging more to this and encouraging far more um slow-paced programs um connection to nature and indigenous culture and heritage and also um nature play I actually think is incredible I brought up two kids in our 21 and 19 Max and Marty um max is following the footsteps and being an outdoor leader and he just doesn't want to do anything else but do expedition work and um slow journeys through nature in incredible spaces which is great and my proudest thing as being a parent is being a bit of a free range um wild fox parent and letting them roam um all through their all through their life and not be a hovering helicopter parent and it's actually grounded them and um not that Marty's particularly a nature lover she loves nature but you know prefers a beach and lying on it than walking and climbing mountains but uh they both have an innate absolute respect and they love getting outdoors and and just sitting and being in nature and that's that's to me that's and and they're grounded human beings as a as a revolve and that to me means everything. That's where my success is laid.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

As a parent can I ask perhaps a question well a twofold question perhaps how has being a parent perhaps altered your relationship with nature and the second part of the question is I've totally forgotten the second part of the question.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

So answer the first part interesting Pete because I never really really really appreciated um urban landscapes until I had children. So we brought up our kids for their first you know what's fifty 15 years in Redland Bay but we're lucky enough that we well I eventually a single mum had a house right on a creek and that was a block away from the from the bay and so we spent all our lives on scooters walking you know going and picking up frogs turning over leaves turning over rocks looking at crabs playing in the beach um outdoors which was fantastic. You know I made sure that we had a small yard but there was a trampoline with a hose under it you know in summer you know that we planted gardens we had a garden we did veggie gardens and so it made me appreciate what was at home rather than always looking out because with two young ones even though we we went to COSI we climbed you know did lots of things in nature there were restrictions of how far we could walk so the backpack you know the 12 day hikes went out the door for many many years um and we just adapted them to do smaller hikes and smaller journeys yeah so that's the biggest change and I loved it. So that's what was also surprised me is like I love just going down to the local beach and sitting and just listening to the waves come and go, watching the kids pick up rocks and sticks and you know whatever they were doing and I loved seeing nature through their eyes and their excitement and everything around it. So yeah it definitely changed it changed for me. And how much and it empowered me on how much we can do starting with younger children. So at the time I then started doing younger programs for kids at Kinderland so on holidays invite invite all children from ages five up to actually come and be part of our nature play programs because I just knew how important it was. Yeah yeah so that's the biggest that's the biggest eye happening for me. Yeah I still haven't remembered the second question it's all good Pete I think you had to ask me why you know um what how's it changed now being a mum with two older kids? Was that was that it Pete Well no but like yeah let's go with that no it's it is interesting in the last 10 years since my and as I said I'm a bit of a free um spirited parent I guess I've done a lot of adventure travels while they're being in their teens and it's been really lovely. So I've actually branched out again and got more back into my long expeditions. So as I said you know we get some hikes for sure but with Dave and I it's mostly on motorbikes and so doing a lot more adventures but again going into places whether be around Australia or in other countries where we are getting into wild areas and that's been really magic. Yeah. And of course the kids love it because they not that they read every everything we write but um but they certainly love and are very proud of our journeys and they are learning a lot from them too especially with our cultural awareness that we bring home so I'm looking forward to them getting to an age to go and do their own adventures and explore in their own way as well. But it's freed me up now definitely they're 19 and 20 and I've I've got the next five months planned to go um go back to Nepal as you know Pete um pick up our bikes from there and then head across the stars so it's gonna be right five months there then the year after we're going to head across Europe and then down the western coast of Africa. So we're gonna be on the next two years on motorbikes for majority of it. So it's gonna be incredible. So will you after heading across the stars will you end up leaving your bikes in Europe and and then returning and then going back yeah well we're hoping to um a couple of weeks ago of course there's major changes in the world so we're hoping to do a really nice run through to Istanbul but now we're probably going to realistically stop at Georgia leave them there and we have a lot of motorbiking friends around the world and and people you meet on the way so then Katman do at the moment we met some guys on the way um and they then of course Dave had his accident we've broke he broke seven ribs in 20 places on the bike so we were repatriated back home. He's recovering from that he's recovered well so that's why we're heading back to Nepal and of course we will leave the bikes there then we'll leave them um probably in Portugal and then come home for a couple of months and then we'll do the Africa route. So the idea is slowly remove around the world but again like with our bushwalking what we've been talking about there's no agenda it's like we need to get from here to here and if it does we don't mind if it takes five months or six months or eight months um we'll just journey we'll just make the journey so we don't plan ahead we've got an idea of routes and where we want to go some clear markers as if we want to go along this pass or whatever it is but because we go off-road and we we like to explore the wild everything's a journey so we might only do 100 kilometers in a day or spend three or four days in a place if we love it. So but it's about getting into those wild areas so it's going to I'm really looking forward to the next decade of my life where I have that freedom I guess um as a not child looking after children and educating children and putting them through all those finances um and you know setting them up but actually knowing that it's this is my time and it's a bit selfish in many ways some parents and other friends say oh it's a very selfish thing you're going away for so long it's like well I've always said if it's my health is number one and my health is regenerated through being in nature then my family and then work comes last so and that's always been my mantra all my life so it's it continues to unfold as it does.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Seems like a good mantra to me.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Yeah I agree yep and an inspirational trip to go on it's been on my hit list for a while.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Oh yeah to ride through the stance yeah amazing right um I guess before we wrap up Beck um perhaps is there something that you're particularly passionate about that you would like to share with the listening audience that um perhaps they can get involved in or just something that you want to highlight to people yeah look there's a few things I think we've already highlighted haven't we like the the importance of slowing down and getting into nature and just being and just being in nature is probably the best thing. Opening your eyes opening all your awarenesses not being in a rush. Second one is I reckon definitely get all those kids out. The younger the better get all children out into nature playing in my getting off the screen mantra that many people speak but you know what are you doing this weekend get the kids outside um one one one thing it's really become very um very passionate about is um the plight of removing all land mines in the world so I'm very very passionate about that going to Cambodia a couple of times now and working in villages and with people who are amputees and have lost their fathers and their daughters and their sons and mothers through landmines is just horrific to me. So I very much support that and um and Dave and I are very passionate about supporting um the hero rats and Cambodia and removing mines. So we're writing a book about our our previous you know two and a half months riding through Asia like Malaysia, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia and back down again. And that book all the sales will be going on to you know that cause of removing mines land mines from all areas but certainly starting with Cambodia. Beautiful idea yeah yeah I'm also passionate about elephants very random I know um but also there's a fantastic Elephant Valley project in Cambodia um I went there last year and they basically save and rescue elephants from you know circus performing logging and so forth and um animal cruelty and they have an incredible the indigenous local people have actually purchased land from the government and they're for real purpose of actually just housing and homing elephants the remaining of their life and I'm a strong advocate behind that project and um and contribute to that project quite enormously. So they're there there are things that again what you know when you travel then you get emotionally affected and as Dave said I I'm a big emotional heart and I I I I get very impassioned about um flights where people need assistance and and people suffer or animals suffer.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

That's my main go my go to so wow uh it's definitely giving the listening audience something to think about there. Yeah sorry um crazy I know well uh the first of the foxies what a what an incredible uh ride that has been what a conversation uh thanks very much for joining us uh thanks very much for the connection between you two uh folks um if we have nothing else uh let's sign off till next time yeah absolutely it's been wonderful thanks babe thanks for it's been amazing thank you