Charlie Sells: How to Fix Your Brand, Reduce Complexity, and Unlock Faster Business Growth

In this episode of the Passion Millionaire Podcast, Robert Roth speaks with brand architect Charlie Sells about how businesses can simplify their brand, align their teams, and accelerate growth. With over 15 years of experience in marketing and positioning, including time at Ramsey Solutions, Charlie shares how clarity becomes a competitive advantage.

Charlie breaks down why most companies struggle not because of lack of effort, but because of misalignment and overcomplication. He explains how focusing on clear positioning, consistent messaging, and the right strategic priorities can transform results, including turning around a declining multi-million dollar company into steady growth.

The conversation also highlights the power of asking better questions, understanding your audience, and creating systems that free up leaders and teams to focus on what truly matters. If your brand feels scattered or your marketing isn’t converting, this episode gives you a practical framework to simplify, refocus, and grow.

Contact Charlie:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlie-sells/ 

Podcast Website:
https://rockandrollyourdreams.com/podcast/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Create a life of entrepreneurial freedom with insights from successful creatives, entrepreneurs, and investors. Discover how they overcame challenges and turned their biggest dreams into reality. They share their personal success playbook so you can build the business and life you truly want. Welcome to Passion Millionaire, the podcast by Robert Roth. Rock and roll your dreams.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Welcome to our today's episode of the Passion Millionaire Podcast. I'm as always excited to have our guests on. Somebody I've been in touch for almost half a year, we've just figured out, which is amazing because we have met a couple of really great people together, which who knows what business will come out of those contacts and those opportunities when we meet. And he is really great and interesting for me personally because of the experience that he has collected in his past career. He is a brand architect helping businesses reducing complexity so that they can actually focus on the right things and grow faster. So that means if a company is growing and working on the brand, but it's not working, then he might be the right person. Like he has in the past already helped turning a declining multi-million dollar company around so that it started growing again at 10% rate and probably more at some point, which we can all see is pretty valuable. So, therefore, also personally, I really love in his experience, he has worked for Ramsey Solutions. Maybe you have heard of Dave Ramsey, the guy that helps people get out of debt and actually potentially become a millionaire by just starting to treat their personal finances the right way. But side note, and Charlie, I hope you touch on this a little bit. I mean, this guy is running, I don't know how many hundreds of millions in his company. Last number I heard is like he runs a 500 million plus empire, probably it's much more. Meanwhile, and he has several companies in this empire, huge real estate um empire as well, as part of it. So I find that really amazing that you have worked in this company and um those experiences using all of it going forward for the clients that you're working with. So really excited to welcome you, Charlie Sells. And it's his real name. It is, his name says Sells, and he's helping to sell. Charlie, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. You know, that's been such a good conversation starter for uh like going out on my own. People are going, is that just uh like wishful thinking, or did you just pick that out of a hat? No, it's been my my last name my whole life.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Loving it. Feel free to also correct anything or expand on on the intro. I'm super curious to get to know you. Yeah, and this uh this is the first opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah, thank you for having me again. Uh so you're exactly right. I uh I have been in branding and marketing and positioning for about 15 years, uh, which there was a there was a 10-year period where I was a uh I was a youth pastor, and you're like, how does like marketing translate into a church context? But it turns out that when you're the only business person on a church staff, they give you all of the marketing stuff that nobody else wants to do. So I've been doing websites and social media newsletters and messaging and positioning pretty much my entire career, just in different uh packaging and uh in different boxes, sandboxes to play in. Uh, and so when that time in my career ended, uh I did wind up going work for uh for Dave Ramsey and Ramsey Solutions for about four years. Uh, got to serve on a couple of teams officially and then several other little side projects uh just kind of here and there. I made you want to talk about uh a company that not only has it dialed in, but you learn so much about other disciplines because you know, you there there wasn't just a I was a copywriter there specifically and did a dabbled a little bit in content strategy and such. But uh we weren't just in a writer's room all the time waiting to be handed a creative brief so that we could be the machine or uh, you know, the the assembly line just churning out words and such. We were ingrained into the teams and the business units that we were working on. So I had direct access to our developers, to other marketers, to the email data people, to social media. We got to learn cross-functionally while we are building these brands uh and doing some really incredible work. So uh I didn't just learn about my own craft, I learned about so much else in marketing. And uh, you know, four years really did feel like 10 from an experience standpoint, uh, because you do have to jump in and grow and adapt, or you're not really gonna make it very long there. So um, man, I had a lot of fun uh, you know, learning from Dave, especially. You know, Dave was leading our Monday staff meetings most of the time, giving company-wide updates. And, you know, there's 16 or 17 business units, or at least there were at the time when I was there. Uh so it's not just, you know, the radio show and the and the books. There's so much else going on. There's curriculum, there are digital products, there's uh, you know, speaking, uh, all kinds of things that are that are happening in the background that most people may not know that are associated with uh with the company. But yeah, it was a great season. Uh I loved my time there, loved the teams I got to work on. And uh it really did help prepare me for being an entrepreneur, a solopreneur, a founder, and all the things that I get to do today as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, that's awesome. It's pretty exciting. And so it means you have personally met Dave as well. I did, yes. Uh he uh obviously as a person, I'd be cu I'd be curious, is it the same as on the YouTube channel or is it somehow different?

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Uh it's a it's a yes and uh, you know, he he certainly is consistent as uh you know that personality. But you know, when you get into a room with uh with somebody of that caliber, uh, you know, they're they're in a different mode. You know, they're in business mode, not necessarily speaking or personality mode. And um I I remember every every employee who makes it through their first 90 days uh of uh you know employment, they get to have dinner with Dave and several members of the board, and you get to ask questions and say, like, um uh, you know, you changed my life. How would would you do anything differently? You know, what's your next book, et cetera? And um I mean, it was also very common to see them in the lunch line. There was a cafeteria on site. And so, you know, this is also um, I'm I'll tell a story here that was kind of unique to um my position specifically, but you know, there's there's not many places where a CEO really takes the time uh to do that on a weekly uh and maybe even sometimes on a daily basis. Um always approachable, always very personable, always willing to, you know, talk and share stories and and whatnot. I even met him a couple of times at some of our company social events. But I'll tell you what, my one of my favorite things, and I was told this when I got hired, as a writer and somebody who has to convey content on behalf of the brand, uh, one of my directives was go down and watch the show for an hour uh or a segment every single day. In what other context can you think of? There's a CEO who talks directly to his customers for three hours a day. Uh I I can't think of many other uh, you know, big companies that that do that, maybe other than the uh, you know, the uh the secret undercover boss kind of scenarios, right? Right. Um but I mean that was great because you get to hear firsthand how he talks, how his cadence, his rhythm, uh, you know, how he presents ideas, and you just get to soak it up. And uh it was honestly one of my favorite parts of the job where if I had a a free afternoon, and I'm putting that in quotes, because you know, they they work worked us pretty hard. Uh, but if I had just a moment or I was I was feeling maybe a disconnect from uh the the customers we actually served, it was great to be able to walk down and hear somebody do a debt-free scream or listen to a call of somebody who's in uh you know a near impossible situation and trying to navigate out of it. Um so man, there's just not much, not much else I could be grateful for uh, you know, from a from a leader. And he's just he's a genius business guy too. Um I mean, some of the things that he has uh you know tried and succeeded at uh would uh are still around to this day. I mean, it's almost a 35-year-old company. So um, you know, there's a lot to lot to say for longevity there too.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I find that quite exciting. So you literally were sitting in the podcast studio. Is that what you uh what he was saying?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Well, yeah, they have a radio studio um because it's still broadcast. Um and they do use it for podcasts and such, but uh it's a live show every day for uh for three hours. And so you can just stop in and and listen and uh you know, maybe even sometimes be on the on the YouTube feed and you know, wave in the background and such. But um it was also uh like transparently, uh like from my seat as a marketer, we could also go do customer research because it's a destination for a lot of people who are fans of the show or have had their lives changed by some of the tools and some of the curriculum. And so uh it was not uncommon for us to go down with a with a computer and a set of questions and just ask for feedback or uh maybe even test a new idea to say, does this make sense? Does this does it seem like it fits within the ecosystem, or would this act is this something you would actually use? How would you change it? Um, so I mean a lot of firsthand customer, uh, customer experience and customer research uh goes on in that in that lobby as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, quite interesting. What would you say are your biggest learnings from that time at Ramsey Solutions that you could um you know take with you when it comes to you know entrepreneurship, as you have touched on that, that he's a master at that. And then also when it comes to marketing, right? And as well as brand architecture.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Yeah, I I mean, very simply, culture really is everything if you're in a business like that. There's a thousand people that work at that company. So you can imagine there's a lot of different personalities, a lot of different skill sets, and and bringing everybody together under one umbrella is is incredibly hard. And over a period of years, as they developed company values and said this is who we are, and inviting people to be on that mission, you know, it is a very mission-centric company. And even in the very beginnings of the interview process, you learn very quickly whether you're a right fit or not, because they're very clear about this is what we believe, this is what we stand for, excuse me, and this is what we want you to be a part of. And so um, I I I gotta give a lot of credit to everyone who has shaped that because it wasn't just Dave, it was a whole litany of people and some of the team members and and board members and such that have really made that happen. So uh company culture-wise, they do it really well there. And that is not about ping pong tables and free burritos or or anything like that. It it is there, they say it every every staff meeting. This is who we are, this is what we believe. It's a constant reminder. And uh, I mean, it's it's just at the forefront. It's not just a bullet point in a an employee handbook. It's central to who they are. So um I'd say from an entrepreneurship standpoint, culture, uh, culture is king in that in that regard. Man, from a marketing standpoint, I would not be who I am today without some of the leaders that helped shape me at that company, one of which gave me the uh not the idea, but sort of the seed of the idea for what I do now in in my my business clarity over everything. Uh I'll never forget being challenged. You know, I'm I'm coming in as a very entry-level copywriter of sorts, at least where the company was concerned. And I was challenged by one of my leaders to think about how can you make sure that a meeting won't start without you there? And I knew immediately it was not going to be because I was the smartest person in the room or because I knew the most or I had the most experience because I didn't have any of those things. So I made a commitment right then and there to be the person who asks the best questions. And that made me a very valuable perspective in in some of these meetings. And um out of that, somebody said, you know, if you become the person who drives for clarity over everything, then you will make a big impact on your team. Uh, and and people will depend on you in new ways. And that's where the idea of clarity over everything sort of came from.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Yeah, it makes total sense to me. Yeah. Very, very interesting. And in terms of um marketing brand architecture, like what would you say did you learn there that maybe also shapes your work right now that you're doing with your clients?

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh the there were several people at the company, our our chief creative officer and some of our other uh senior creative leaders. I I can't tell you the number of hours that they worked on branding, brand positioning, visual identity, consistency, some of the core pillars that I now bring to small business owners and leaders. And uh, I mean, the amount of times we would just have either a monthly or a quarterly, like this is this is what this brand is and this is what it stands for, uh, I mean, that really helps shape a lot of how I view building a brand. And I mean, there is, there was a catalog of brand standards where if I wanted to go see how another business unit was operating or how they're talking to their customers, I could go pull that up and say, this is their target, uh, target audience, this is their core beliefs, this is how it translates out. And here are some examples. And it was that way for every single brand, every single personality, everything in the company. They just had a very well-documented process. But I think at the end of the day, it it what it went beyond, this is what our logo looks like, or this is the right word to use here. It really got down to the why we exist and who we exist for and how we create products, how we create brands, how we express that in the marketplace. And yes, of course, there was competitor analysis. It's it'd be dumb not to talk about some of those things, but it it really did center around if everybody is clear and aligned about what our brand is, then everybody can own their role and go faster. And again, those are some of the principles that I bring into uh some of the work that I do in positioning and strategy to say, as long as everybody knows the direction that we're going, every single person is now freed up to do more of what they are good at, including you as a leader or as a business owner. And that has been a great paradigm shift for a lot of folks that I work with thinking, oh, I don't have to solve all the problems. I just need to help set the direction and support everybody in their role. And that's a big unlock for a lot of leaders.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, I like that. And how does that look in a practical example? Let's say maybe um, you know, this company that you've helped turn around from uh, you know, being in a negative numbers to then start making profits again in uh two digits, 10, 10 plus percent, whatever that exactly was. Yeah, um, maybe that's a good example or feel free to pick another one. But like what exactly when you're working with a company that is actually not getting the results that they want that is that is tied up with trying to figure this out branding, brand, brand architecture, and then getting the impact of you know having resources freed up while increasing their profits. So what exactly are you doing with a company like this?

SPEAKER_02 15:11

That's a great example too. And uh I have to give a lot of credit to the GM that I worked with directly. Uh the when we first got together, when we were talking about goals, and it wasn't necessarily around KPIs, it wasn't necessarily around revenue numbers. It was a very simple mandate. Uh it was we want to duplicate the in-store experience online. And that was not like we're gonna create AI bots to uh you know look, sound, and feel like us necessarily, but how we communicate, the frequency, the information that we share. We just want it to be consistent with when they walk into our store, this is what they experience. And that as a bedrock made the difference because now we know that's the filter through which we look at how we write emails, how we do social media, um, uh, you know, how we do promotions, how we do campaigns. Do we do campaigns? Um, and I think that's that's one of the pieces that a lot of business owners skip over, is they just think it's about tactics and not necessarily about the positioning and the strategy first. Um I I've had other business owners who who will come to me and say, I think I need to do this. And I'll think, okay, that's a tactic. So why, what, what motivates you to do that tactic? I'm also thinking about what happens after that particular step or what happens before that particular step in the entire ecosystem of the brand. So uh if they're not positioned in some of these other areas, then it doesn't help anything to do more stuff. Uh, it helps to do the right things and maybe even correct some of the things that are off a little bit. And I think that's part B to it uh is you know, I think there's a misconception that when you work with an agency or a consultant, that all of a sudden we're gonna get this big long-to-do list of new things or new initiatives or uh twice the work or anything like that. And I make a really concerted effort to say on the front end, my goal is not to create more work for you. My my goal is to make your life easier. And so we're going to continue to do the things that are working while phasing in some of these new things that are going to help move the needle for you. And that's what this company did. They didn't stop doing anything that was already working. We just added some things in strategically and over a period of months where you can see, you know, we want to go up and to the right over a period of time, regardless of season, uh seasonality or cycles or or anything. So um, I mean, that's the, you know, essentially in the seat that I sit in, that's one of the core things that I try to communicate is we're not trying to do more. We're just trying to do things better. And sometimes that means more, and sometimes that just means improving the things that we're actually already doing.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, and tactically, like, what exactly did you do there, for example?

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Yeah, that's a great question. They had a great customer database, uh, you know, just a few thousand people from uh, you know, 12, 13 years of doing business that they really hadn't done anything with. The last newsletter I think they had sent was maybe two or three years prior. There wasn't a ton of uh, yeah, there wasn't a ton of regular communication going on. And so uh my my encouragement to the business was you you have to understand that it's going to take a little time to retrain this audience about what to expect. You know, some of the conventional marketing wisdom for the longest time was it takes maybe 18 to 20 touch points before a message really sticks or breaks through. And uh I'm not gonna say it took 20 emails or 20 communications necessarily, but the I think the principle still stands that if you are doing something new, it's not going to necessarily have a viral or an overnight effect. And I believe the brands that win are the ones that are clear and consistent over time, not just the ones that are trying to go for the flash in the pan necessarily. So um I think that really helped set the table and really the framework uh for what happens when we do this, this, and this. What do we expect to see? What are uh also some of what are some of the low-level tests that we can do? Subject line A B tests are a great place where that's a very low-risk thing. Segmenting audiences and seeing how different ones react to different messages, that's a big piece of uh of what I preach. Like if we're able to target and segment specific audiences, that gives us better data to know, you know, are we communicating the right things? I had another client that's totally separate industry uh where we tried very hard to get some content off of the ground. And it just wasn't getting a lot of traction. But we had this sense that the audience did want to hear from us. And so we tried something totally different. Uh, it was completely free. It was just like a replay link from one of the uh live streams that had happened. And wouldn't you know we saw almost a hundred X uh return all of that where people were clicking and watching and and viewing. And so they made a shift, they made a pivot away from uh, you know, some of the traditional. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

That was all organically or with advanced on top.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

It just happened. No, it was totally organic. I I stuck a replay link in an email and said, hey, if you missed this thing, you can watch it here. And uh, I mean, uh truly like a hundred X uh uh you know return on all of that. So they totally shifted word in numbers?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

100x was it one first and then a hundred?

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Or it it was you're not you're not terribly off. It was more like it was more like seven or eight uh, you know, from uh 80 people, uh you know, eighty people-ish registered, eight people showed up, and then when we did the replay link, almost 800 people watched, I mean, out of a list of about 5,000 uh came back to watch the uh the replay. And so they totally shifted their content strategy to say how can we still provide value and get in front of the audience with the right message because people do want to hear from us, and it's really paying off in spades.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

It's a small thing in this case because the numbers are pretty low comparatively to to bigger companies, right? But at the same time, it's a big, a very, very big thing because it shifts everything going forward and that therefore you know what works. Yeah. And therefore you can jump on that and then go crazy on that, and then that will help the company to grow faster and faster and faster by literally knowing exactly what the audience really wants while they didn't have any idea at all before you were doing that. So um I want to point that out how how, even though small numbers, but how big of a thing that really is.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Well, and and I think about the the effect that it had internally as well, Robert, because the people who are creating this content now are re-energized to make more and better content because they now don't feel like they're wasting their efforts or their time on something that has very, very marginal returns. Now they see the potential and it's been proven out, and they think, oh, all we have to do is replicate that style or um, you know, that medium, and we're going to see very similar results. And now they're really excited about what's what's next for their brand. They actually want to make stuff. They don't feel like it's a test or a um a task rather I mean that's that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for adding that. Totally makes sense. Excited about it. I'd be curious also um you know going going forward like you're working with the companies right now you're seeing the results that you're seeing like your own company like where do you see that going in in the next five years and just always curious to to learn that as well because there's always a vision and then there is you staying in contact right and then hopefully seeing that vision coming into fruition and also you know hopefully right people hearing that and potentially knowing okay I mean that it makes sense to at least have a chat. So I'd be curious to to know where where are you going? Where's your company going and um who probably is going to be a part of that journey.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

It's a great question. You know I've been doing this full time uh you know as a solopreneur uh for about two years and this is the very first year I've set any kind of number goal. You know I think a lot of times when we when we stumble and fumble into entrepreneurship, it's you know just keep the wheels on or uh you know have some very uh you know if I have a a a look back at the last 12 months, what's my average and you know how can I grow that by 20% or whatever, which I think are all really good. You know, one of the things that I I learned from uh from Dave and several of the other entrepreneurs that I am very close with is um you know if you serve enough people you don't really have to worry about money. And that sounds very pie in the sky, I know, uh, you know, to to just kind of say, oh yeah, just go work with people and the rest will take care of itself. So in that same vein, I did make a a goal for myself this year, which is to work with 26 brands in uh in 2026, very on the nose, you know, very, very content centric, right? Uh but I mean I've also done the math behind that and said if it's in a one-off capacity, a retainer capacity or a project capacity, that will help my company grow by however many percent. So um that's just like from a uh from an owner's seat or a founder's seat, uh something that I really wanted to focus on this year was uh getting in front of more of the right people, not just taking anything that kind of comes my way. So uh but the thing that I spent a lot of last year building uh that is is turning out to be very valuable to uh to brands who need more of a short-term engagement is about a 30-day uh brand intensive where uh from start to finish uh I do a full audit. Uh I do you know the typical discovery calls and get my head around what's going on in your brand, some of the problems you're trying to solve, some of the goals that you have. And then I do a half day or a one day clarity and alignment sprint that is it's brainstorming on steroids. It's a lot all in one day, but it is so much fun to do because there are all of these breakthrough moments where somebody goes, yeah, we really shouldn't be doing that or hey what if and the dreaming comes out again and the vision casting really gets rich. And so then from there the deliverable for that whole process is there's a 90-day punch sheet to uh uh to say like here are the priorities we have to tackle in the next three months. Otherwise it's not going to move the needle. And again, we're not stopping anything that works. We're we're possibly pausing some things that don't work uh to pull over to the side of the road and fix them. Uh but we're also not going to shut anything down because that would be detrimental to the business. And so it's continuing the things that are working and starting to intentionally focus on the things that are that have to be fixed. And then I also give a 12 month roadmap for uh what the brand could look like over the next year if you if you do a phased approach. And the beauty about that particular piece Robert is um I can help implement some of that as a strategic advisor or a fractional role or you can just take that to your internal marketing team or an agency and say, here's exactly what we want to do. Now help us accomplish that. And the reason that I I think that's so valuable is uh it gives an owner confidence because they're a part of it. I'm not a typical consultant in that regard. I'm not coming in with a playbook and saying these are all of the new things that you're going to do and you know you've paid me all this money. So good luck and have fun. I really strive to be a collaborative partner in the midst of all of that so that we are locking arms together and creating that entire piece as as a team so that I don't sit in a seat above anybody. I'm sitting right beside you doing the work and helping it come to fruition.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah sounds exciting so there's a lot of growth coming I do see also the the movement the growth that you have made since we have met for the first time which is quite exciting and I'm very happy for you also.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Oh man that that unconfident version of me I'm sure we could we could go back and punch it and be like hey listen it's gonna be okay you just need you need two more pieces to unlock it and then you're off to the races.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah so in the future like I mean it sounds like there's team coming that you're that that you're gonna build in your company and all of that which is super exciting. And let me ask you a question if you look back a little bit because there is also I know that for a fact people listening that are building themselves up that you are in the point at the point of where you have a a stable you know a stable career that maybe one man show with a with a tiny team of people around you that is growing now. But still that is something that some people are working to establish right now and for those who are listening or who knows maybe even some of them still in a uh a job right that is providing the money and they want to work the way out of that I'd be curious when you look back what was the time of hardship that you might have encountered to get to where you are today and what are your learnings from that so what would you probably do differently if you had to start over again going out of a career, a job, steady income to be where you are today? Like what was the hardship and how did you overcome it?

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Those first six months were really hard. You know I think all of us launch out thinking if if you don't have a a product, you know, because in a lot of ways I'm I'm a service um in in what I do. And so if you don't necessarily have a product or you don't have numbers or an ROI to to go off of, it really does kind of feel like I'm constantly trying to prove myself and get in front of the right people and if I can just have a conversation then they're gonna see the value in it. I think my problem was a little uh a little more specific where what I thought I was going to be doing initially is a very small percentage of what I'm actually doing now. I thought I was just going to do content and uh and copywriting and strategy, but at the end of the day I realized it goes way beyond that. And so just in a moment of curiosity at the at the end of those first six months, I asked my client mix at the time, can you describe what I do for you? Unprompted, uh like personal conversation, you know, they couldn't write anything down or think about it. I just said tell me what I do for you. And wouldn't you know almost none of it had anything to do with content. It was all around problem solving advisory work and all of that. And I think most entrepreneurs they feel like they have to give themselves a full year or a certain amount of time just to let things sit. But if we're not constantly evaluating and even asking the people who are on the receiving end of our our services how is this actually working for you? You're never really going to know number one, the impact that it's making but number two, the next direction. Those conversations directly shifted everything that I did last year in in 2025 and what I was building and how I was building it. And so my encouragement to anybody starting out is go ahead and start like do the work uh do the prospecting get your first set of clients but don't necessarily get married to that model or that way of doing business because it's probably going to change. And I think everybody that I know who's a solopreneur or an entrepreneur would say the same thing that something shifted either by my choosing or or you know some other force that caused me to do it. So yeah, that'd be my encouragement even to myself if I could go back and tell myself that when I first started a couple of years ago, I think I would have breathed a little bit easier and not not just hung my hat on I have to have the perfect offer. I have to have the perfect list of services I have to have all of this proof. I mean it can be squishy and uh you know you really do have to get in and do the work before you truly discover how how things kind of function and what you should be focused on.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah that's uh I kind of agree with that. That's a very smart question to to ask. So what did I do for you or what am I actually doing for you? Very very very smart way to get feedback from whoever you're working with right now. And you might be able to learn something. I I love that. Charlie so before I'm gonna ask you the the closing question for our episode today I'd be curious like if somebody has listened and find something valuable, wants to get in touch with you, wants to figure some more details potentially even want to work with you like what are the best ways to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_02 31:10

LinkedIn is always a great place because that's where a lot of this stuff happens. So search me up it's Charlie Sells uh on LinkedIn. I don't remember the exact URL but I don't think there's very show notes.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

LinkedIn uh and then you can also go to clarityovereverything.com uh you can see just an overview of uh my philosophy on branding uh and some of the options of of how I can help i mean anything from advisory work to full scale uh fractional roles uh I even do weddings so if you're in the Nashville area you need a wedding done uh I can be your officiant too uh that's uh still an ordained pastor for for all that reason but uh on the uh on the branding and the and the marketing side you know for me it's everything from uh one-off projects all the way all the way up through some of the some of the more involved roles but I'm really focusing this year on those short-term engagements because number one they provide a ton of value in a very very short amount of time and number two it's it's an adrenaline shot for your branding and your marketing efforts um that is it's not I'm I'm gonna be honest with everybody it is not like traditional consulting I'm just gonna put that out there right now uh I'm gonna ask questions you've never thought of I'm gonna get you thinking differently about your brand uh and at the end of you know whatever that 30, 60 90 day period looks like you're gonna be so much happier with how everything looks, sounds and feels the consistency that you have and you're gonna be freed up to do a lot more of what you're best at rather than solving problems that you just don't want to solve.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

That's awesome. Here is my final question for you Charlie. Sure. Let's get the audience thinking right now what is the question that everybody should at least give a shot, think about it that might change the the director direction of the business into growth.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

The question I love to ask is when is the last time that you got curious about your brand? I think so many leaders get stuck in position. They get stuck in certainty uh they get stuck in I have a million other things to to worry about so I just need to give fast answers uh and I need to move on or I need to give the bare minimum or unfortunately because I said it once it should just trickle down and the assumption is that it's going to happen. I encourage leaders and owners all the time to get curious about their brand again. Think about the my favorite question to ask is what is it like to be on the receiving end of your brand and your marketing efforts? That will uncover a whole list of things. Are we being consistent? That's a that's a big one. Are we being concise? Are we being competitive or are we just trying to chase trends and do some viral flash in the pan stuff that may or may not move the needle so curiosity I believe is the thing that unlocks clarity. It's really the first step in in one of the frameworks that I take people through uh because it will cause you to ask more questions rather than just assume you know the answers. It will cause you to bring different voices into the conversation that uh that you didn't realize needed to be uh be there uh all the way from uh somebody in a different discipline all the way down to the people who are actually making the stuff that you're selling um those are very valuable voices so curiosity is the is the key um uh that's if I if I get to preach one thing about branding for the rest of my life I think it's going to be at whatever level you are don't assume you know get curious about your brand and your market.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Loving it Charlie appreciate it thanks again for hopping on the podcast with me. Thanks again for sharing those stories experiences learnings and now also this question that you're leaving our audience with today. See you soon.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Bye thank you Robert go to rock and rollyourdreams.com forward slash podcast