EP006 - With Phil Eaves

In this episode, recorded during Neurodiversity Celebration Week, we explore the growing importance of creating inclusive pathways into employment and why neurodiversity is a powerful asset in today’s workforce.

We’re joined by Phil Eaves, Social Sustainability Manager for the Midlands at BAM, who shares how the company supports young people through structured work placements, T Level industry placements, and vocational training opportunities. Phil discusses how focusing on individual strengths — rather than perceived barriers — can unlock hidden potential, particularly for neurodivergent learners who may struggle in traditional classroom environments.

The conversation highlights how inclusive workplace practices not only benefit individuals but also strengthen organisations by bringing diverse perspectives, creative thinking, technical skills, and improved problem-solving to teams.

We also discuss practical steps employers can take to support young talent, including mentoring, apprenticeships, flexible learning approaches, and partnerships with education providers.

Finally, the episode points listeners toward the UK Government’s Skills for Life initiative, which connects employers and young people with resources, training routes, and opportunities to build future careers.

This episode is a reminder that when workplaces focus on what people can do and design environments where everyone can succeed, they unlock potential that benefits individuals, businesses, and the wider community. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello and welcome to Inclusive Voices. This is the podcast from Skills for Inclusion, where we explore how workplaces, educators, and employers can build more inclusive and diverse teams. I'm Jane Rexworthy Whiteheart, and in each episode, we speak with people who are helping transform how organisations think about skills, talent, and of course opportunity. This week is Neurodiversity Celebration Week, and today, close to my own heart, we're exploring a really practical topic: what inclusive work placements look like when they're done well and why they strengthen teams. Across the UK, around one in seven people are neurodivergent, yet many still face significant barriers to employment and, of course, progression. At the same time, employers are increasingly recognising that inclusive workplaces bring new perspectives, skills, and strengths that benefit the entire organisations. So, how can employers design placements and early career pathways that truly work for everyone? So today I'm delighted to welcome Phillies, who's a social sustainability manager at BAM. And through the Skills for Life programme, Phil has been working closely with students on T level and other vocational placements, helping develop structured, flexible placements that support learners with a wide range of strengths, including neurodivergent learners. Phil has been directly involved in supporting students who might otherwise have disengaged from training to complete their placements successfully and move into employment. So, Phil, welcome to Inclusive Voices. And so to start, could you tell us a little bit about your role at BAM and how you became involved in supporting inclusive work placements?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Hello. Yes, well, I've been in construction for 40 years. I started on the youth training scheme back in 1985 without uh realizing where my career was going to go. And early doors, I basically progressed fairly quickly through the business I was in and was on site as a site manager. And that's where I first came across issues regarding neurodiversity when I asked an apprentice to um produce a cupboard for me that went into the corner of the office where we could store some valuable items in a site in Nietzsche's. And I described what I believed to be good instructions, which proved not to be in the end, uh, and said to this young person, Can you build me a cupboard that we can put uh iron mungery door handles and stuff in? Uh it's got to be about a meter by a metre. Uh and I came back and checked on his progress, and there was in fact a square on the floor, a meter by a metre. Uh, and I said, Well, where's the rest of it then? And to his sort of surprise, he said, Well, I've done it. You've asked me to build a cupboard a metre by a metre. And that's when it suddenly dawned on me that perhaps I hadn't given quite you know good instruction in this case. Uh, and then he disclosed to me, he said, Well, I've got issues, I don't I don't see 3D was his exact words. And I said, Do you know what? I wish I'd just drawn it for you because that would have made it so much easier. And he said, Yeah, but if you didn't draw it in 3D, I still would have built a square on the floor. So that was where I first came across this whole perception of giving correct instruction and things like that. Um, and then I started setting um work placements up uh here at BAM when I joined in 2006. Um it soon became apparent that I was working with young people who got a range of different skills. Um, one or two of them needed the additional help. So I sort of set about mentoring the ones that needed the greatest amount of help. I mentioned it to the business and said, is there any way that we can turn this course that we're supporting schools with into potential apprenticeships? And BAM said yes. So we set up an apprenticeship scheme where the young person would find a job, we would support them, and then I would go into the colleges because they would still become BAM apprentices, but they'd be working for other people. Um, and through supporting Stourbridge College back in the days, uh, we were able to get those apprentices through the apprenticeship programme. So it was very difficult for them to do some of the paperwork or get the evidence. So we used to you know add a little bit more time into supporting them, uh, and then they became apprentices that went into full-time education um for some and a lot that went into site based placements for others. So um that's where we started off back in 2006.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Wow, that's an incredible journey, Phil. And it just shows, you know, it's only when you're working with people that you really identify how you can support them best. So why do you think, you know, looking at other employers that perhaps are not as um up and as able as BAM is, why inclusive placements really matter? What would you say to an employer about why it matters to give those opportunities to young people?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

I think the key thing that we found recently, we've been supporting T-level learners on a project in Birmingham. Um, and out of the 28 that we've had on site, there were several that I was uh informed early that were going to struggle because of um they didn't engage in the classroom environment. So what I did was I set about trying to find what their particular strengths were. Um, and I think that's what businesses can do instead of looking at a young person who's very quiet, and that's first flag is always very quiet, they're quiet because they're thinking, they're trying to like link what they know and how they can develop their skills. Um, and and and I and early doors, what I said was um we haven't got a very good careers video. Nobody has, let's be honest, especially around young people. So I set the group a challenge and I said, Right, I would love for you to produce a video that we could use to show other students uh whether to get through comms and stuff like that. But at the point of view we were looking at was who was going to engage, who was going to be front of camera, who was going to do the recording. And what we found was the the ones with new reverse challenges were the ones who did all the techie stuff for me. Now I can't do that, I can't use half the software they use on their phones, I'll be brutally honest. But they can, and and this is a gift I think they have that I don't have. So what I needed was I needed all of the, well, we had 12 students in the room at the time, I needed all 12 to be engaged in it somehow, whether they were scripting it, whether they were filming it, whether they were looking at unique ways to do to like produce it on site, because you don't want a boring video, otherwise everyone switches it off. Um, and what we found was when we had all 12 working together in two groups of six, we ended up with the result I wanted. Now, if we hadn't have involved some of the young people with the different um skill sets, this wouldn't have happened. And I think that's what employers need to realise that you you're not always going to get the same outputs from everyone. We're just making sure you can pick up the strengths of the young people that are the quietest in this case, um, because they may be quiet but they're very, very intelligent.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Excellent. So it's really building and finding the skills for those individuals, isn't it? And it's taking that time. Do you think it it takes particular skills? I mean, you've obviously had many years of spotting um where people might need that additional support. How how might you encourage other employers to train their teams to be able to spot those needs and requirements?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I think to be honest, I I picked up the skills early doors because of that incident on site was my my flag, effectively. And then we were asked to support young people. And I think if you are going to look at doing this, you need to do something like I did. I did the education and award at level three, um, which shows how you can, you know, not necessarily teach, but you can train and you can pick up and you can deliver in different styles. And that's what I did as straight away. I could pick up where we got some we got adults that are on um boot camps that are through um DFE and for others. Um, and what we had was we had two young people, and I knew one was going to end up on site, and I knew the other one wasn't going to end up on site, but I knew that he wanted the experience. So what I did was I made sure I put those two people with two different people on site. One that would help mentor and support, and the other one that would say, right, get on with it, let's get let's get cracking, kind of thing. Um, and the one that said let's get on with it, let's get cracking. Um, we still had the same issues after week one. He wanted to leave after a week because it was more than he was thought it was, but we talked around the different types of jobs we could offer him. So we got offered a second type of job, which is more engineering-based, and he loved it, and he's been with us for like six months since. And then the other young lad that came on site, we knew that we could tell straight away when I did the um interviews um that he wasn't never gonna get into site, not yet, he needs a lot more support. So that's what we did. We gave him that support, and as um the placement ended after two weeks, I rang up and said, How's he got on? He said, Unfortunately, he's never going to be a ground worker, but he has got two weeks' work experience. We will look at other options in the future if there's something comes around in this area and he's had some more training. So he needed more. We we knew that he needed more. He'd been on a boot camp. That that told him that there were jobs in in construction. We actually took that boot camp onto one of our projects to show them what our projects looked like, and then we organized a two-week placement after that, um, about three weeks later, so that you could see what it was once he got his CSCS card. So he's gained the CSCS card, he's gained that ability to give somebody um information about site, but he was never going to be a ground worker, or he wasn't so it was again, he's got another sort of careers um around logistics to investigate now.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Brilliant. So it is it's finding the right pathway, isn't it? And so one of the things that you've just, you know, and you explained earlier on, and just in this case study, practical adjustments really matter. And so you've seen how those small adjustments can make obviously a difference to the individuals through being really interested in them as individuals. Can you give some additional examples perhaps of things employers can do on placement that really help neurodivergent learners to succeed? So, you know, building on some of the case studies that you've given, are there some other practical examples for employers?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Absolutely. I mean, we we've tried to set young people different challenges to try and make their placements more interesting. Um sites are very interesting, but when you're looking at the same thing week in, week out, it does become a little bit tedious to some. Um so what I tried to do is I try to make sure that every week has a different focus when we've got them on site. Um, and one of the challenges that I had was you can only do that for how many weeks before, again, that becomes a repetition. So what we did was we said, okay, I want to give these people, um, regardless of their age, they're all T-level learners that we're talking about at the moment, so they're between the ages of 16 and 18. I said, I would love for you to have more skills when you go to interview than some of your peers when they go to interview. So we got involved with a company called Bentley Systems and we came up with a 4D challenge. Now, straight away, I knew that I'd pick up the skill set from one lad who was in the group and another lad that was in the group and a young girl in the group who'd all got that sort of like quiet approach to doing it. Not that they were all necessarily neurodiverse, but I knew that would that would trigger something that would make them link two things together, which are quite difficult to demonstrate unless you've got the software. Um, we put it together as a challenge. We actually got some sponsorship and we ran that as a finals competition during National Apprenticeship Week, uh, where three students won first, second and third prizes from one particular university, technical college. Um, and I think what that's given them is that a it's given them the skills, but it's also given to teachers the skills. So again, this isn't normally about students on site, this is what goes back into the classroom, and these students would were doing better work as a result of the challenge that we issued, the skills that we gave them, and then we got our DPS team involved, so our design team. Um, and they they they effectively scaffold that learning for me because I'm no DPS expert, but they were on call, they came face to face to an event at BCU and gave them that this is what we do on site. So straight away I've now got a DPS team that have bought into what we do. We've got colleges and staff at college understanding that 4D is quite important, and at the end of all of this, we've got some very quiet learners who are going to be able to showcase a lot more skills than they had when they started on this course doing T-levels in perhaps September 2024. So two years on, fingers crossed, they're going to be top of the list for getting apprenticeships or going to uni.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

That's amazing, Phil. And I think it's really, I mean, what you're describing is that strengths first approach. You're looking at individuals and looking at their strengths that they can bring, thinking of them as part of a team. So thinking about that, using some of those behaviours as strengths rather than barriers, how how would you recommend to others to identify learner strengths early on and then help to shape those placements around them? And I think you've given some good examples, but perhaps any other practical tips for other employers?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

I think from our experience, what we've done is we've we've had an initial buy-in where we've been asked to go to presentations, and I think any employer can do that, I think everybody does. But I have a slightly different mindset when you walk into the room, and instead of picking the best all the time, think about how you can support everybody in the room. Because when I used to do the um the work with the schools many years ago, I had got some cracking britlayers, I had got some crack cracking chippies, but I knew they'd be all right, I knew they'd find a job. What I was looking at was the ones who hadn't got that, and I was thinking we need to support that. And I I've met a lad that we started back in 2008, uh, and he's flying now. He's done three or four jobs since I found him a job as an apprentice, and um not just that, but his whole attitude to life changed. And when I first met him, he kicked the bricks across the workshop because he got frustrated, he couldn't do it, and I just stood him to one side with everybody watching saying, Do I expect you to lay this brick wall today? No. Do I expect you to lay this brick wall in a month's time? No. In a couple of months' time, I'd hope that it'd start to straighten up a bit, but I'm not expecting you to lay bricks on day one. This is a start now and let's see where you are in two years' time. And he got it straight away. He got it. I said, also stand over your brickwork instead of next to it, otherwise you won't see it straight. Just give him little hints and tips like that. Now, he hadn't got any confidence. When he finished doing his apprenticeship, he went to work for a company and he was driving a forklift. They brought him into the office and they said, We're sucking you. And he said, Why, what's going on? And he said, Well, you your forklift's been operated and there's a whole load of equipment gone down in the workshop and it's going to cost us thousands of pounds. Now, the old person who had been faced with that would have just crumbled and walked out and lost his job. He turned around and turned around and said, Right, have you checked the CCTV footage? Now, this is what he was telling me. Have you checked CCTV footage? Because I have not used the forklift today. They went straight back down, checked the forklift, and someone else had used it and put his keys back on the hook, trying to frame him for doing it. Um, and as a result, that young person obviously went, but they they actually said to him, We apologize, and then they made him a supervisor. So that's that's a difference in somebody you know going back out and and never going back into work kind of thing versus somebody that'd be given a little bit more positivity and encouragement and confidence eventually. Uh and I was chucked to bits for him. I said, You'd have never done that two years ago, would you? And you went, No. I said, Fair play to you. That's just showing that if you can be shown the right route, given the right level of support through the college work we used to do, um, that'll give you the confidence to be able to stand up for yourself. Um, so I think employees can do similar things, they've just got to think slightly outside the box sometimes. That's all. They've just got to think, yeah, that person's gonna get a job. How can we help that person?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah. Phil, I mean, that's it's really interesting to see, you know, it is about confidence building. And from what you're describing, and you're obviously really passionate about it, but you're obviously an amazing coach and mentor to these young people. How do you how can other employers train their teams that are coaching and mentoring, do you think, to have the skills required to really support young people in these placements and on the in these new opportunities?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

I think again, I think starting off with something like that level three award in education and training gives you that skill. Uh, it then gives you a desire to then want to do what I've been doing. I'd been doing it unofficially on site, I was delivering training, and one of my directors said, Oh, have you got a qualification for it? I went, Well, no, not really. And he said, I think you need one. So the award in in education training is a five-day course. Um, and it taught me things that I mean, I I I quite enjoyed the course because what it meant was I could demonstrate what I had been doing, and it was validating what I was doing was was good practice. Uh, and sometimes you had to look when I say thinking outside the box, I got a young person who couldn't lay bricks for toffee. You could not draw for toffee. And I just turned around and said, Right, let's go and get the Lego. Let's go and get the Lego out. Let's show you what I want you to do. And if you can't draw it, get your finger, rub it on the end of your, you know, going to brass rubbing days kind of thing. Get your pencil on the end of your finger and just rub over it and then draw it in after. I said, All it says on here is you have to be able to demonstrate that you know what the bond of bricks is. If you can do that and you can draw it, and you can so I got him making it out of Lego instead of normal bricks, then got him drawing over the top of it and tracing over the top of it, and then he went and built the wall. And again, it's just having that desire to show that you don't necessarily need to pick up a pencil and draw straight lines, use your, you know, use it outside the box, and and Lego, as as I've found, is a fantastic tool for teaching anything. We use it today with with SEND learners because anybody can use it, and it's it's not used specially for anything, it's just a fantastic tool.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

That's amazing, and it's a really good example of practical application and finding a new way to engage a young person. And so, really thinking about what do you think are the impact on teams? Because obviously, there's an impact on you as the coach, mentor, the trainer supporting those individuals. But sometimes employers worry that inclusion it might require lots of extra effort or resources. But from what you've seen, how do you inclusive placements really benefit teams and businesses?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I was thinking about this one because that's quite a tough question. And I thought, why am I thinking about this? We already do it. And I can close a classic example with this is we we were working with a King's Trust group in Birmingham, um, and we said, Would anybody like to do work experience? And one only one girl put her hand up. And I thought, well, you put your hand up, so let's do this. Um, we set up a two-week placement between ourselves and uh our FM company, so we do a lot of facilities management, and I thought perhaps that's a set of skills that she could develop working with the FM team. So, week one, we were back in our office in Shirley. Um, we had one side of a petition and FM are the next side of the petition, so they were right next door. So, if ever we needed to shopping change, we could do. Uh, I booked myself into the office that weekend, and what I did was I went out on site and I took this young person with me. I also had to take a second member of staff because not only did they have no neurodiverse issues, they also had um medical issues, which is similar to what some of what my son's got. So I fully understand that if somebody was to pass out, then we'd need an extra pair of hands. So sometimes you have to take that into consideration that you're not just there on your own, you've got a young person, you need to make sure that that young person A is over 18, which he was, um, but also you've got a member of staff to help if something ever went wrong. Um, and then we went we met in like introducing to apprentices, so they were walking around with our apprentices and we were having alpha and eye on pastor's supervision just in case there was anything going on on the same floor that we were on. And then in the week two, um, we said, okay, you've had a week on site, you've been to various sites across Birmingham in the West Midlands with our staff and myself. I said, We're going to put you in with FM next door. Uh, and FM were like, Oh, what do we get to do? I said, Well, think of a job that you need that's you know, not mundane, but I, you know, think of something that's if if it didn't work properly, then you know you haven't got too much work on doing it, kind of thing. And that was being unfair, really, because she actually went in there and she bossed it, it was hilarious. She walked in and she basically sorted the office out, and they were like, Who's this? You know, and and she had got that positivity because she'd had a week with us, she also had a stutter and things like that. And after week one, that stutter started to disappear, and it was all around confidence again. And then uh one of the girls said, Phil, um, not being funny, but um, she keeps wearing the same clothes. So we identified that not only did she have all of these other issues, but she was really restricted on on funds and stuff at home. She says, Can we bring a bag of clothes in? I said, No, no, no, whatever you do, don't do that, because that obviously highlights the wrong side. I said, What I would do is have a clothes collection, get everybody in the office to bring a bag of clothes to put in the recycler next door and in the clothes bank. I said, No, just before you take it out, just say, does anybody want to have a look before we put it in there? So, of course, that was a bit easier. Everybody was looking through the bags. She took out two coats, she took out two dresses, she took out something else, she went, Oh no, I wouldn't dare wear that and put it back in. Of course, they all laughed at that. Um, and the thing that that made the biggest impact was that she she wore all those clothes for the rest of the week, and then they have a passing out ceremony where they all say, This is my journey, this is where I've been. And she wore one of those dresses to the finals at Birmingham City, and everybody just couldn't believe the transformation in her. And when I told the girls when we went back into the FM office, they literally like there was tears pouring down her face, and that's the impact it can have. You know, this young girl came in and was all stuttery, and and and she went out there and she was like, her shoulders were up here, and it's the impact that these placements can do for those young people and the confidence it can build. Our lock just couldn't give her enough flowers to take home with her. I mean, bearing in mind she'd take them all on a bus. I did feel a bit sorry for her, but it was one of those things. I thought, can we get a taxi? Um, so yeah, so it's a case of um you you look at yourselves and you look at how you approach it moving forward as well. You know, when when this young girl walks in and what we're gonna get her to do, and and then all of a sudden she's busting them around, it was hilarious. It was really funny to watch. Um Um and then when we took her out on site and she was, you know, walking straight up to the pen and says, What do you do? And this was a girl who wouldn't say boot to a goose on day one. And I had to remind her that she had a volume setting when she was sat in an office and she was a 10. I said, Can we wind it down to a six or a five in an office open office environment? Because I was getting stairs and she's what you what are you talking about? She says, Stair to a six, please. She's just giving her those life skills in a funny way. Um, and then when she went next door, it was it was like transformation time, and I didn't think that would happen. But it not only did it transform her, but our staff had a totally different idea of how to run placements in the future, and it was like, let's do that again. That's that was an encouragement for me, let's do it again, you know. So that that's how it can impact. And I think having um the right person on placement, there's never a right person on placement, let's be honest. Uh they're all different, all got different skill sets, and it's about trying to give the best experiences.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Well, that's a really good example, and I think you're right, it's the rewarding element that really supports everyone that's involved in that process. But not only that, the business was benefited from having that young lady into that placement because they actually had change happen for them that was really positive. And I think that's those are exactly the types of examples, and I think employers need to understand that even more to realise that there are huge benefits, that those personal social benefits as well as the physical benefits and the business benefits. So, lessons for employers, then what would you say would be the first step that an employer should take to behave in a similar way to BAM in terms of enabling young people to have this opportunity for replacements or apprenticeships? What should employers think of as a first step to get involved?

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I think the first thing is to do what a lot of companies are doing now. They've understood the value of social value. That's my role on social sustainability manager for the Midlands area. So my catchment area is from anywhere from Sheffield down to sort of Kent. So, in in terms of what I do, I first of all think who are the best people that we can support. Now, my my particular drive is to look at any pre-employment programmes. So if anybody's listening and thinks, hey, can I do that? Go and talk to your local council. Uh, we got introduced to Growth Path, an organization in in Birmingham, absolutely fantastic organisation. They take young people, they give them the skills to be able to get them on site, and then we put them with our subcontractors to again to see if we can get them into employment. Um, and we had one young lad recommended to us, and the reason that I actually wanted to meet them was the reference was, This is one of the nicest human beings you'll ever meet. Now, who wouldn't want to meet one of the nicest human beings you'd ever want to meet? And that young man had no confidence, been out of work for 12 months, went to Growth Pass, came to us, we put him with our bricklayers, and I thought this is a slightly different approach for him because I got straight away he's quite timid and quite shy. So I took him onto site and I said, Look, make sure you get there for about 11 o'clock. You don't have to be there exactly 11 o'clock pressure off. So if he's half 10 or half 11, there's no bother. He turned up just after 11 o'clock and I brought him in. I said, Right, this is the office that you're going to be coming into on Monday to do your induction. As he walked in, one of the other guys who we got on the same programme from the same organisation who was a little bit more confident and he'd been out of work for a while as well. Uh, I said to him, I said, This is one of the lads who's also on your scheme. He said, You'll be alright with mate with band mate, puts his thumbs up and walks down. I introduced him to one of our senior site managers who's not got the best reputation when it comes to um being friendly towards new people. Walked in and I said, This is the lad who starts Monday. Um, and he said, Right, see you, see you on Monday. He says, Make sure you're bright and early, and walks out. And I thought, thank you for that. Uh and again, it was just making sure that that initial experience on site made him want to come back Monday, you know. And I introduced him to a few more people, explained what was going to happen, the forms he'd have to fill in, filled as much of it in with him before he started. Uh, and he's been on that site for six months. He then moved to another band site, and then I caught up with a black cat that was uh supervisor who was working with him and said, How's he getting on? He said, Oh, he's at the villa with the lads. Now, this is the lad that hadn't got any money, and then so they bought him a season ticket to the villa, they went with him to the Arsenal game, is what I was told. Uh, they bought him a shirt, and and and again, the team have just you know wrapped their arms around him, supported him, and giving him a social life which he hadn't got, you know, and all of a sudden he's the world's biggest Aston Villa fan, and off he goes every what every week with the lads to go and watch the money. And it's like he can't drive, so they pick him up every morning, they take him to Coventry currently at the moment on another BAM site we've got over there. Um, and again, that like that lad was not going to get that opportunity. So, again, think about your supply chain. Your supply chain for us is very important. We have to have the right people in the supply chain doing a proper job, um, and use social value as a means and a driver to you know, we call it social inclusion, um, to bring those young people in, give them that skill set. But sometimes, like this lad who's you know a bit shy, make sure he's happy to come back on the following Monday, which he did. Uh, and I was chucked to bits when they said he you know he came up and said, Could he clean someone else's mixer because they haven't cleaned it out properly? And I'm like, Well, that's the kind of person you want on site, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Gosh, I mean these are really good examples, Phil. And I think it just shows that that whole community spirit that actually it builds a team rather than destructs a team by actually having people with different needs. And I think that but all of those examples just really should encourage employers to think differently and really embrace that opportunity of having individuals that maybe have neurodivergency um needs and requirements, or individuals that just need some different type of support. And I think it's just enabling us to be the humans that we are, but building the infrastructure, and I think, Phil, it shows that that's one of the things they've done brilliantly in having you in that role is that you're able to identify where those opportunities are. And I think your advice is great for any business that's listening in today, then encouraging them to think differently about their employees for the future, and this is a great some great examples to take away on that. So I think as a reflection, one of the themes coming through really strongly is that inclusive practice isn't about lowering standards, all of the examples you've given have been about designing workplaces that allow people to build on their strengths, to shine, but also to do a really good job for the business. And I think that's that's excellent. So, one what would be your lasting comment that you'd like to leave to the audience today um in terms of something to consider or think about.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

I think what was what was really interesting to hear, we were we were talking um about the work we do in None Eaten Signs, we work with uh young people and adults with different um issues. Um, and that one of the statements I heard there is look at look for the strengths and not not the weaknesses, you know, look what they can do, not what they can't do. And that as I you know, I'd love to have that on my grave, you know. Look what look people can do, not what they can't do. And I think that's that's a good thing. And and I think with the technology changes and stuff around AI, I think the young people now that are coming with these different skills will probably best placed for those roles. Um, you know, I see very you know, a bit like myself, a mature um staff on site who are you know running away from AI. We can't run away from it, we've got to absorb what's coming forward from the future, um, but have people who understand it uh to help run it.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, and our young people are those individuals, aren't they? They're digital natives, they've been brought up with AI technology and digital technology, and we should use utilise them as our teachers moving forward. So I think there's a few messages that I've really taken from today's conversation. One, small workplace adjustments can make a huge difference. Strengths first approach really helps the learner to build their confidence and succeed. Inclusive placements improve retention, engagement, and team performance. And I think you've been able to really articulate that well. And employers play a really critical role in widening access to high-quality training and careers, and I think it's just a testament to BAM for its excellence and for the role that you play, Phil, within that team. So, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your experiences. And thank you to everyone that's listening to Inclusive Voices. This is a podcast from Skills for Inclusion. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do share it with colleagues who are interested in building more inclusive workplaces and of course a stronger talent pipeline. And as we mark neurodiversity celebration week, it's a really good reminder that when organisations create space for different ways of thinking and working, they unlock potential that benefits us all. Thank you very much.