Freedom is in the Knowing

Fear thrives in the unknown — but freedom begins when we learn, explore, and understand. In this episode, we share how fear has been used as a tool of control in technology, culture, and even faith, and why choosing knowledge over fear opens the door to creativity, connection, and hope. From Y2K scares to AI myths, from parenting lessons to troubleshooting tech glitches, we talk about how replacing fear with curiosity can change everything.

If one person fears less — in life, in technology, or in belief — then we’ve done what we were called to do. Join us as we unpack how freedom isn’t found in avoiding fear, but in knowing enough to push through it.

🎧 Wired Together is produced by WinternetWeb Technologies, a family-run web design and tech studio based in Bracey, Virginia.
💻 Visit us at winternetweb.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Welcome to our um podcast. I was trying to think quickly what's the number of our 10th podcast from Wired Together with um your hosts Jason Winter and Melanie Winter. And um today we're planning to we were planning for a while actually, which is um very interesting, to discuss fear. The fear of what's coming up, the fear with AI, the fear with um technology. Of course, we have touched on this probably more than one episode, but we promised a little more in-depth. So we're this is kind of more of our in-depth fear, um, and maybe fear versus freedom. Um so the cool thing is irony would have it. Um I think I'm using irony correctly.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Oh, definitely. English.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Oh no, you're fine. That um we had two customers come in, both with concerns of uh both with fear.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

And it's just today. Like we're trying to sit down to do this and podcast or anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

So we thought we gotta kind of start with um, you know, the very common fears. Um we have not heard this once, but many times, but it was an interesting reminder because we're about to do the podcast. Sure. Um, one in particular, she was nervous to come in. Yeah. Uh, you know, it was sometimes you uh you don't know feel like you have all the knowledge, all the jargon, right? Yeah, and so like how do you how do I explain what I need?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

You know, if I don't know all of the jargon and it's like I'm not an expert, and she even alluded to as far as technology that some people maybe made her feel like she was stupid. I mean, and it's not fair. I mean, you know, but dismiss right. Well, you know, well, woman, you don't know what you're talking about, or whatever. And that's not fair. She just has two computers and she's trying to set up the new one. She wants data transferred from the old one.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

So it's like she knew exactly what she needed, everything she said to me makes sense. Everything that um, you know, again, what was needed, and and her jargon was completely fine.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Um, but I get the fear, you know. Um probably not knowing it. One point you were also uh an English teacher for um middle school, so you know, you've got a little bit of a background of not just you know, you have to know everything. I'm I'm here to teach, I'm here to talk about it. Exactly. I'm I'm here to understand. Sure. And so I uh she immediately felt comfortable and was um just very excited that it but I thought it was very brave of her to let her know, let us know that she was she was afraid to walk in.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I know, yeah. I'm bad, I'm glad she did, and we scheduled something, and she walked away and she's like, I feel so much better that I did, and I I'm proud of her, and that's you know, sometimes when you're faced with something like fear, you realize you're limiting yourself, and it's you know, but because you know if you can push through that, then you have that freedom for something new.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Well, um, you know, I one thing I had um learned in a previous job with um I did wine tastings or do I did for uh many years is is you did it full-time, but now yeah, but now yeah. And so um but my dear friend, one thing he told me that I felt like was so important was you know, you you're gonna fall into, you know, a lot of people know a lot of different things. There's so much to know about wine. Oh yeah, you know, different regions, all of these different snail, you know, varies.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

All the nuances of the you know, yes, everything.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

There's so many things. And once you start to learn, you realize how little you actually do know. And he said the main thing you need to always remember is they're walking in not knowing our wines. Right. And you know our wines, and that's why that's important.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

That is true.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

And so I've repeated him several times because you know, I think that's so important to say, you know, okay, I I get that you know things that are outside of my scope. Right. But you walked in here to learn what my scope is, right? And we teach you that. So that makes sense. Um I thought that was really and and that kind of helps with the fear, especially again, something as large as technology or something as as expansive and wine's been here for thousands and thousands of years. So there's so much to know.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

But I mean, nothing larger than space in the universe. I remember as a child and learning, of course, the moon, the sun, the earth. We understand that relationship and all the planets. Sorry, Pluto, but actually Pluto still exists. Yep, I know. I'm team Pluto too. Pro Pluto. Yep. Um, and then all the stars. And you you know, you kind of like, okay, I understand how things work in the universe. As you study in more depth, you realize, like you, like you're saying, I don't know anything. Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Now I have enough.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

So, but I think with any um industry, any topic, you have a certain level you get to where it's like, all right, I get this. You take that next step, and then all of a sudden you have fear. You're like, maybe I don't understand this at all. But you can't forget what you do know, and also you don't need to know it all. You know, you just need to continue to navigate through it and learn more.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

The healthcare system, you have specialties, you know, right, exactly. You have the whole you know, everything and everything are working.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah, it would be unfair to expect that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

So, you know, that that's one thing is you know, fear of not knowing enough. Um, and the the other one that kind of leans into a little bit more of our topic is we had a um client that was just went out and right out and said, you know, are you afraid of AI?

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

And so um if I I immediately started to laugh because I knew my topic for for today. So right.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

So I'm like, okay, the person here chuckling over there, finishing up on something, she can write around. I'm like, she's gonna come around and talk because the irony of it again was we're just about to do a podcast on it, and uh hope you're listening. So you asked.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Um But yeah, that you want to talk about what that was, or was it just as far as so kind of you know, when something can be made up so quickly, you know, um then you start to get into what's real.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

And so um which is very interesting, you know, it kind of leans into you know your fake news, um, you know, your you know, your memes that aren't even real, you know, right, exactly. It's like videos, whole videos, or even actual truth.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Um and we see a lot in social media and we've learned to be cautious.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

That if we see something, it may not be real.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

So what I told her was um it well, what uh Jason told her, which was a really good point, is you know, it now that we know more, we are having more of a critical eye. Yeah, we're starting to learn. We're starting to see that okay, this may not always be true. Right. Um, even though you're looking at it with your eyes, you know, it's still not necessarily true. And so I said that you know, my 13 and 11-year-old were, you know, um what I was showing them something, I think it was a video.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

It was video, well, yeah, last night immediately.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

It took almost no time at all. Both of them went, that's AI.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

And we're like and we're like, okay, how do you know that? Right. And they're like, all right, watch. You know, like right here. And it was something about the movement's moved at the exact same thing. There's something that be that your eye realizes all that.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Yeah, see what they had a better critical eye than I did. Right. I didn't even notice.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Didn't know it's how unnatural it was.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

They did, they saw the unnatural movement, and then they um that seemed natural to me because it just it was of natural movement.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Right, but it's a big picture. You're looking at something and you're not, but apparently they are seeing enough, just like some other people. I mean, it wasn't that long ago when AI would make images and things like that that we would all just joke and say, oh, it's AI. Look, that person has six fingers. I mean, AI had a hard time with fingers um in image creation, among other oddities, but with more iterations, it is getting better. And um, you know, but there'll be other things too. You know, as soon as you start seeing leaps going forward, there's always going to be that reminder of, oh, yeah, okay. I thought you were here, but you I mean, like our AI co-host who's on vacation again, I guess we'll get the story, but we know um our AI co-host, you know, it slips up, gets silly, voice cracks, or whatever. We don't understand what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

And um every once in a while he sounds like helium is right, is it?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Is it like, did you hear that?

SPEAKER_03 8:43

But um, he is not flawless. Nope. But you know, that is the the nature of it. Technology is not flawless. No, of course not. It's gonna have its flaws.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

It's constantly in a state of evolution.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

And and I think having a critical eye um early is extremely important, and and just having a critical eye at any point, you know, if if something doesn't seem like it should be real, it probably isn't, you know. And so we we are our senses are always, you know, are very often m mistaking something, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

So and having a critical eye is important because it it can help you have confidence a little bit more of okay, I don't need to know it necessarily, but I know what to look for in what I don't understand. And you know, it's technology as a whole is really something that we need to teach ourselves and also teach our children.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Right. Well, that goes into kind of the first part of the actual true episode that we were uh putting together is that you know sometimes the fear is the not knowing and it's the not understanding. Um and that is the the thing that freedom can come from is being able to learn it, being able to know it. Um, that does give you enough um comfort level. And so it's it's not to stay away. I don't know it, so I'm scared of it, and I want to stay away. Sometimes we don't really get that choice. And so it's um maybe a little more in maybe I need to understand it, maybe I need more clarity, um, work with it instead of against it.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Um and so you know that can be helpful in as a tool for creativity, for expression, for small tasks. If we if we open ourselves up to it and instead of um you know, fearing.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

And so kind of going on that is, you know, fear is we should always realize that fear is control. So anytime we feel fear, there is a reason for it.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

You want to regain that control. Right. Because you feel like, you know, this may either take something from you or something that you're not able to harness and feel comfortable with.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Right. So I kind of kind of consider it almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's the fear is um fear will start to control you, and so then you want more control over it, and it controls you more, and it's actually gives you the reason to have fear to begin with, so it's almost like it's a loop. It's a circle, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yep, definitely is.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Um, and so you know, we've got a couple of biggies of what this fear is is creating. And so one thing is, you know, in teaching our children, uh, one of the biggest things for parents is what do I embrace about technology and what do I uh pull away.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

And so um the way we have a tendency to see it is you know, you don't hand a 16-year-old car keys and just say, you know, best of luck.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

No, you know, that is a especially if they're on your insurance.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

That's that's a a big machine that you, you know, any person that is going to operate that machine has got to have some knowledge of what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, they need the training, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Not everybody can be as lucky to live kind of in a more open space, but we do, you know, try to teach our kids a lot earlier here in rural areas, and so you know, go ahead as soon as you're tall enough to breach, yep, drive in the field, do whatever. Yes, drive in the field. So um be able to we have um you know tried to make sure that when we go into releasing that um autonomy to the child that they have some understanding of what they're doing. So you you do want, you know, and you know, even the law says they should be driving with an actual responsible adult.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

And you know, most parents are gonna be wanting to be that person and wanting to be the adult that's that's driving, you know, with the child, teaching them things like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Well, technology's like exactly the same way. You don't hand them the keys. Yeah, you know, they when they're not developed well enough to have all of the keys, right? You know, and as they learn, sure, you have more freedoms, but you know, they should always be uh taught that this is a privilege to have things that are make life easier to do task and communicate, but we can also you know not have that privilege if we don't treat it correctly and we don't develop with it and we don't learn it. But I mean yeah, um learning technology has been very important in the world.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Which technology is a tool, so is a car. And if you're teaching them about it, you obviously realize if they have their phone or something like that, you can't be over the shoulder every second. You can't be in the car with them every second. So it's not just teaching them how to do it, it's also teaching, you know, the the responsibilities and you know the limitations and you know the scenarios beyond, you know, you're hoping to prepare them for things that you know you may, you know, not know how to experience or you know, or have experienced rather. Because I mean the world does change, right and the kids are involved in things that are much more elaborate than maybe we're used to.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Right. And so it's trying to be outright with them, you know, try to make sure that they understand again all the things that can be fake. Um somebody that randomly talks to you, you know, that our kids know not to talk to anybody that is not someone they know in real life. Yeah. And so that is extremely important to us. Um, and so that is you know to go ahead and let them know. Yeah, people aren't what they say they are.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

So you don't have you you can't believe everybody.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Right, exactly. And if they gotten like a random text before, and usually it's like always a scam, you know, your car warranty or health insurance, something like that, and you're like, I got this text, and they're letting us know. And it's like, yep, just go ahead and report, delete, whatever. You know, but anytime they get something, it's like we've we've drilled it into them, you know, hey, look, don't be afraid to come to us because we don't want them to be in a situation if they're afraid to come to us, then you know, something you know that goes against the learning process and you know could get you in a situation.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Right. So if you teach no fear, you know, exactly. Yeah, be like, hey, you know, you're not gonna know everything, so here's why I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Um, I'd rather that you didn't, you know, you realize you don't know everything and come to me.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Um so we also kind of you know, fear of of collapse um is is been really big lately. Oh yeah. Um you know, just uh everything is going to kind of go down, you know, your Y2K situation viruses and viruses and um so you know the those kind of like more explosive fears, um, you know, that is kind of that way of of um creating that that fear on more of a biblical proportion of the end of the of the world and that sort of thing. The plague. You know, and and I I don't want to treat that lightly, but you know, there is again you remember the Y2K scare, and so you know, as far as when that all of that happened, backups weren't all that big a deal and stuff like that. So we've gotten a little more um smart about it. A lot of times we're gonna have um fallbacks that bring us into being a little smarter next time and being able to overcome right. And so, you know, um backups nowadays are everything, you know. We've got servers all over the yeah, we've got a lot of cloud computing and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

But I mean it's um it of course back in Y2K, it the fear of everything going down, banking, all my information be lost, and you know, gotta remember, sometimes some of these events may be while they might be truth to it, they're they are hyped, as we realize with this. But it's to get us to the next stage of where things are going, and now everyone's on board. Wait, because we experienced that, now we must accept this next thing. So, but anyway, what was the wording? Problem reaction solution.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Problem reaction solution. Yeah, you create the problem, yeah. The then you have the resulting reaction reaction, and then the solution which you've already created from the problem, right? You already knew is is doled out. So it's a lot of that is orchestrated, a lot of that is you know your Orson Wells kind of situations. Oh, yeah, you know, oh you know, the aliens have landed, and you know it's kind of like when the patent for antivirus software is already there before we experience viruses. Right. It's convenient, it was very convenient moving along.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Um we won't speak of them. We did.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Um and so you know, a lot of this is fear is typically coming from um how we educate ourselves, and so you know, it's it's not that strange to, you know, and you're starting to learn to walk and things like that. You're gonna of course fall, then you fear to fall, so you learn to walk better. Right. I need to be more careful going in this. Um, you know, to me personally, I think it's a very healthy fear to fear spiders because what you know, there is one out there that might kill you.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Well, that is definitely in Australia.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

But well, we had the Black Widow.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Oh, I know, and I know it's a lot less likely, but I know, but I get it though. It's good to have a fear because then you know you see something and you're cautious, you're not like, oh, come here, let me pet you.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

You know, it's you know, and I think that's what we tend to do, is and what I do, and probably wrong. Um, but you know, the Black Widow could kill you. Um, but all spiders can't. Right. So we do have to kind of you know keep that in mind when we have fear.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Of course we're gonna fear spiders, but they really aren't all about to set up too. They don't they don't even all have venom. No, you know, then they're pretty much just living their lives, you know, regular web designers, hanging out.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Web designers, yeah. I get it, and I heard that.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yeah, so um oh that you know, it we're also very I find it very interesting in in education. One thing we get taught in when it comes to fear is fearing what's next.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Um, I can't tell you how many times I've um in a classroom. Well, you know it's gonna be worse next year. Oh, yeah. You're just you're not gonna have it as lovely as you have it this year because it's gonna be so much worse next year. Next year you're gonna be in middle school, it's gonna be so much worse. And and next year you're gonna be in high school, it's gonna be, you know, right, and college isn't gonna, you know, the gonna hold your hand. Oh, I know. And it's like, okay. So so I try to remember remind um every single child I actually meet that talks about that. Um, so not just my own children, but other people's children. It's like I just want to give you a secret.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

They tell you that. But every year I have been in that they tell me that it's always better the next year.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Because the next year you not only have you know, you get a little less handheld.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Which is great, you know, because then you get a little more freedom.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

True. That is true, you get more freedom.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

So you kind of you go into a little more freedom, a little more freedom, a little more freedom, a lot more freedom. Yeah, you know, and then it's like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

But you also don't anticipate your own growth that took place. Like right now, I don't know this. But a year from now, wow, look where I've come.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

So it seems so uh ridiculous to me to teach children that it's always gonna be worse.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

And it's like, don't, don't pay attention. They do that, and I don't know why. I remember, but I want you to know that it's actually always better.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah. Um, in the school system I was in, our classrooms were kind of divided by partitions. So you had like four classes in this main room, let's let's say. So it's kind of like you know, a one-room schoolhouse, but not. And so I remember in third grade, we're talking about multiplication, and we started getting into division. But every now and then I could hear the fourth grade teacher right across the partition getting into long division, all this kind of stuff. And I remember sitting there, just like you're talking about, thinking, I'm never gonna be able to do that. I mean, I'm listening to them do it, and you know, and I'm like, that's next year, I'm gonna be dead. Uh, you know, I can't do it. But then when fourth grade came about, and I still had this in my memory when I started fourth grade, and I realized uh within that first two weeks of school, I'm like, okay, I I I do know this, and it that kind of stuck with me in what you're talking about because I'm like, okay, every year, you know, we don't we're not often realizing how far we have come with things, but there's always that fear of I'm not gonna be able to.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

But at whatever age you are right now, look at how old you are right now, what have you accomplished? What do you real what would you have stopped yourself from if you know you didn't allow yourself to exact if you knew the hill you had to climb, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Yeah, so the saying I hear so many adults say, Oh, just wait till you're an adult. Oh, oh, just wait till you're an adult. Yeah, that's and you can have too many adults say that to you.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

To the point it becomes so fearful to become an adult.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

And I I try to, you know, remind my children when when adults say that, it's like, guys, I actually like being an adult so much better.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah. Again, getting back to free.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

I get what they're saying. I'm not saying that that's wrong what they're saying, but don't fear it. Right. Because actually you're gonna be an adult a lot longer than a child's. Yeah, we hope. Embrace your childhood, enjoy your childhood. Don't do it with fear because you know what? Adulting is fun too. That's right. I have enjoyed being an adult.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

And we don't want to minimize anyone's problems, you know. I mean, kids are going through, you know, the quote unquote like technology technological playground of life, you know, but then before the you know, beta release and of you know software. So it's but there is still a learning process that we can't say, oh, just wait till you get here, you know. This is valuable too. It's not like wait until you turn 18, now I'll start teaching you things. Now you're an adult, here are problems. Now let's bring up, you know, conflict resolution.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

You know, right. It's like that should be way before.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Conflict resolution unlocked.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Oh my gosh. No. So, you know, I think that um I think we get taught this continual envisioning of fear, you know, fear of we're not gonna ever know enough. Um fear that the things that we don't know about is gonna, you know, just completely take us over and that kind of thing. And and so, you know, that um a lot of times it also turns into kind of fear of messing up, fear of failure, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

No, that's very common.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

And so, you know, that's that's definitely with the technology, people don't want to touch it.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Yeah, well, I didn't want to do anything, I thought it was mess it up. Yeah, yeah, and it's like yeah, just like all of us, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

And and so, you know, the we we named it, we decided to name it glitch happens.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yep, glitch happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

So, you know, sometimes glitch-ups happen, and we become afraid of fixing, uh so as opposed to like knowing that technology is almost always fixable, not always, but yeah, there are a lot of times um you really didn't lose what you thought you lost. Oh, yeah, you know, that kind of thing. It's it's in there somewhere, and and I think a lot of this is um the the earlier age um computing where you actually could lose something uh almost entirely computers make very fast accuracy mistakes, right? And you could lose the whole thing. Um nowadays it is extremely different, and so there is a lot of a there are a lot of safeguards that have been built in. Safeguards that have been put into place because we've lost so much in the past, you know. The last thing you want is like right before launch for NASA to completely lose all of the computing.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

I was gonna say losing your photo album, yes, that is very sad, especially. But for a billion dollar company to have lost their entire, you know, next software, you know, release that you know someone said, How do we prevent this? Right. And they built it in.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

So there's a lot more. Um, and so one thing you know, we we've been able to do when it comes to the computer repair part of what we do is is recovery. And you'd be surprised what you're actually able to recover that just seem completely lost.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Just because you can't get to it don't mean it's not there. Right. And that's kind of you know, it's behind that door, you know, but that's not an option for me right now.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

And you know, so that that realization of I can find it, even if I don't know exactly how to just yet, I can find it. Right. Um, I think is it been really helpful for other people. Yeah, I think so. If nothing else, you know, I can at least call up Jason and and he can figure out how to find it.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Um, and you know, it's it's been helpful as far as a teaching tool, you know. Um I I do love that my girls can troubleshoot um because they they're not as afraid of making the mistakes. No. And so really no. And so they do get a lot of um like my parents will watch them do something and and fix it. Right. And, you know, and it's like, whoa, how were they able to do that? Right. And it's like, well, it's really not necessarily knowing how to troubleshoot as much as it is being confident, knowing that you you can't screw it up with so much.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

So then they play with it and then they know how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

And you recognize the patterns, and you think being in a household of people that work in a technology business, that the child might hear you do it, and they throw us to remote. When in fact, they don't. You know, they go ahead and click, click, click, click, all right, I got it.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Oh, you know, they often show us what to do. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Sometimes I'm yeah, it's another story. I'll get into the pip anyway. Hang on to that. Um, but yeah, but you know, it's not like, oh, we know and I don't. It because again, well, we're very careful to make sure, all right, you try, you think, you, you know, but you know, their troubleshooting has just come through a lot of their own exploration and confidence that they've built in that. So, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

And you know, that they're not perfect people by any means. This is mainly just talking about how we are trying to, you know, to reduce fear of technology. Yes. We're um along this these kind of lines.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

So and it pretty much is you know exactly what is used against us when we start to realize um or or hang too much onto fear. We we we create this this world of fear. Um, of course, we can talk about fear for probably hours when it comes to everything that is, you know, um within the world and all that. This is really just being technologically based. So, you know, one of the biggest fears is of course scams.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

And that is actually exactly what they want you to have.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Scammers want that um the fear, yeah, because that's what works, is how they can actually stop manipulate you to yeah, and you'll stop thinking, and then you move forward. Yeah, you might not think of it quite as critically, yeah, because now they've given you so much fear. So uh a lot of scammer tactics are used to uh create fear. Yeah, if you don't do this now, you know, this urgency, yep, they create urgency for sure. You do a talk on scamming a lot, yeah, and one of the main things, you know, is is going through a bulleted list of how do you know it's a scam, and one of those is urgency. Yeah, you know, if you don't do this now, you know, we're we're gonna you know shut the whole thing down, and now you've gotten out and that kind of thing. So it's it's one. Of those tools that is used, so when you know that you don't have as much to fear as you think, then there is that you know, okay, if they're putting out some urgency, I need to see if I need to do this in two hours, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:17

And I got a bill for a product I don't even own, and then it should be a you know, heads up. And I mean, I could I could talk two hours on this, but it's uh call the number.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Right. Most big companies out there, you know, that you're working with, you know, whether it's an antivirus company, right, um, your software company or anything like that, they are massive. Oh, yeah. They're not urgent at all.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Your little whatever bill, uh Dominion, they don't do anything with power in the state.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Yeah, diminish, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

They are not going to jump down your throat with urgency on a bill. They want you to know.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

But they're not gonna do that urgency thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Most of these companies have said we're not gonna reach out to you.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

And they would never do something like that too. They're customers. You are technically their customers. Yeah, most companies are not gonna do that. So that is a definite that's a scammer if if urgency has been put in place.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Yeah. I think a big part of it is, you know, uh anyone can be caught. I mean, we I would say we've all been scammed. I've been scammed, and you know, it's just you sometimes get caught off guard, just like that phone call of someone, and you're just not in the right mindset to really talk to them, and you man, maybe it was rude. You know, it's but you caught off guard and you think it's a problem because oftentimes a scammer is reaching out with something, and um then you react to that again, problem reaction solution. So they send you a problem, your credit card was just charged $599 for whatever this thing, and then you go, oh no, you call the number. Now that scammer who is talking to you very professionally, and you know, I'm gonna help you through this, don't you worry. I mean, why are they so nice? Because they're making money off of this, unfortunately, and they're you know, then what happens there is they get you to go through a process to fix the problem that actually never existed. Because again, at email, you weren't, you know, actually charged that. Then you're letting the scammer in to then do the damage. So it's um, I remember somebody was here one time and they were like, Why do these people do this? Why don't they get a job? And I was like, they're making a lot more money than I am. I mean, and it's unfortunate. I've had banks call me to help with clients and all that, and I, you know, it it's we see more of this than you know we would want to. But again, going back to or the topic, it all starts with fear because you make a reaction to something because you're afraid. What if I don't? Um, so yeah, it's yeah, it's that that's a big thing though.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Right. And always remember again, these companies will not actually do the steeds.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

No, and that that's what you're saying with as far as these bigger name companies, and uh no one reads the terms of service, I know that, but I mean, if you look at the bottom of many of their emails, they will say we are not going to reach out for sensitive information. If you get contacted from us, please make sure that you reach out to us through our number. Do not call the number provided to you. You know, it's I mean, I I could rattle off the entire script, but and um, and even though I know this, I can't be a hundred percent sure that I won't be scammed in the future. Because again, if done correctly, don't change tactics. If they yeah, they'll change they they evolve. I've seen the evolution and how I need to fight the uh the viruses and the malware and how the way intrusions, it's evolved, and you have to kind of read it and figure it out. But yeah, they'll they'll move on when it when it stops working, they'll figure something else out. Not that you need to be afraid, but you need to be cautious and you just need to be open and just you know, don't don't dismiss trying to learn it more, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

So and call your friendly computer repair.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, it's um it can't tell you how many times people reach out to me. Uh sometimes I'll get an email or a text, is this legit? I'm looking like nope, throw it away, or whatever, you know, and and and it's not really bothering me at all, you know. It's just I'd I'd rather I'd rather the contact be that than I'm out twenty thousand dollars. Can you, you know, the bank has locked everything on my computer until you fix it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

But so yeah, we've um trying to move in, okay. We've discussed enough of the fear. Right. So why does this give us um why does fear change into knowing lead to freedom? And so this is where we're, you know, we see a lot of technology and and uh the way things are kind of shaping themselves as its own freedom. Yeah. Um I know I was just discussing with um dear friend of mine. We were, you know, both talking about housework and stuff like that, and trying to get things done and everything, and I had everything running and and was able to step away and have a conversation with her.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Right. Because all the machines were running, you know, and your droids were working for you.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

And I'm like, I do not want to go back in time at all. Right, exactly. I love the fact that I can throw clothes in there and they just go, I can put dishes in the dishwasher, right? And it goes, I you know, technology is also the dishwasher and the um the dryer, exactly, yeah, the the coffee pot. This is all technology, and so at one point, you know, people were you know unsure of all of these things, but well, what how do I operate this? What do I do? You know, I remember grandma having such a hard time with the microwave.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

It's like I I don't know, I just don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Well, it's just new and fancy.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Grandma, all you gotta do is push a few buttons and that's it. And nope, nope, I'm not doing it. Right, which I get for grandma, but um she just had her way and she was gonna do it her thing. That's right. But you know, as far as you know, remembering that all of these things really are just new technologies um that that I dearly love. I dearly love the the freedom that it offers.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

So sure, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Now if we learn to like fold and put away at the same time, yeah, yeah, do it.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Yeah, that definitely can't wait for that upgrade. But um, so it's uh I guess continuing with that, um the AI keeps coming up as a topic, of course, with technology because that I mean that is the latest, you know, uh buzzword, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Buzzword.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Buzzword.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

It's the buzzword that's you know all set up to to end us.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yeah, it's I mean, we have kind of flashbacks to Terminator and um 2001 SpaceX. No, they have not, but they they they've kind of like made prepared us, maybe, if that's the right word.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Yeah, critical thinking, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Critical thinking is wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Um but you know, but one of the biggest things is it AI isn't magic, and I know it looks like it, because it's like, oh my gosh. You know, we have seen actually about two, two, two and a half years ago for the most part, it becoming getting into the households and usage, um a big uh jump in what technology is able to offer us. I mean, if you think about autocorrect or what do you call it, suggestive whatever, like in Google when you start typing something and it finishes your phrase or sentence, technically that is AI. And while useful or not, definitely not autocorrect, um we've seen this big jump in what AI is doing. So while it looks like magic, it's just pattern recognition that is trained on data. But we've kind of unlocked the amount of resources given to it. So almost overnight we have felt a shock, which again, it can be fear, it can be excitement, and sometimes both. And um, but it's not the first time that we have had um yeah, I know we've talked about in a previous episode, like the printing press, and how I mean, if you think about it, when the printing press came about, um, there was a lot of fear, there was a lot of okay, this is not natural, this machine is printing this book. Didn't help that the Bible was, you know, very much involved in that. But these scribes that hand wrote stuff for thousands of years, um, you know, it the thing is uh that it's not that we destroyed the scribes. With the printing press, we made education more widespread.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Right. People could read the Bible in their own language with that. That's what you meant by the the way you said that. Yeah. Yeah, well, okay. It's like when you're like, what are you talking about? Yeah, right. My head started. Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Um, but yeah, the the But there was a lot of fear because that was part of it. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Scribes could go directly into you know making all of that work too. They're the ones that that know the wording. Exactly. So that's it it just moves up, it's just really an upgrade of everyone, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

And just the ability to do it at a different pace.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Well, and we were talking about you know the uh industrial revolution. Oh, yeah. Um obviously that's such a good thing that you get all of this invention and things coming up right so that you know we don't have um, we've just gotten out of um, thank goodness, uh the the country having more and people being used and people being used as is um and so then it turns into well now we've got the need for the machinery, which was awesome. So then you got machinery coming up, sure. And that does a lot of things that you know that you would normally have to use people, and then that's not good conditions, right? Exactly. So um it ended up happening also in in Industrial Revolution where you've got more and more machinery, and so that gives that ability to use less and less people, right? Which sounds like a bad thing, but we were you know putting children in there, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Right, exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Because they had little hands and sometimes they just completely went off you know, not not the best conditions either, and so a lot of machines end up doing the things that are not as um uh savory, you know, it would not be something that would, you know, and and you shouldn't really be asking human beings to right, let the machine do the risk, not the person, right? To to completely use their body because bodies are not machines, and so bodies are are wonderful, you know, tools for lots of things, but we're you know, we're not machines.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

You can't reinstall a limb, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Right, you cannot, you cannot upgrade either, right? Um so you know that we need to, you know, we need to eat, we need to do things that are more important for us, exactly, and so as machines do things that you know maybe aren't the in the best conditions, then we can do things that are better for our conditions. So, you know, that gives us more of that creativity. Exactly. The greatest thing about the human brain is is how creative we are, and adaptable, and how adaptable, exactly and so that gives us more humanity.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

That's true. Yeah, that's definitely truth. And um, and I guess when it comes with technology and our relationship with it, again, we need to realize that we are the, if you will, the master. And the the technology is our assistant. So if technology is technology is the assistant, not the star. You know, we are using it for a purpose, and that's what all technology is for us. It is a tool. And um as we start wrapping things up here, just have some thoughts here that we um a couple points that we thought were kind of uh poignant. And um and a parent's love cannot be programmed, but smart tools can handle the noise and chaos so that there's more time for family connection. And yeah, and of course nice little quit there, Jay. Well, it's um it I think it's the goal for all of us, and you know, marketing, especially in the 50s, with certain things, it was like, hey, look, you'll have these products and you'll have more time. The unfortunate thing is because humans are humans, now that you have more time, you have more time for their corporate world. So um I I I know that people are afraid of losing jobs and things like that. I think things are going to change, and I can't tell you how, but if you kind of look at all the factors, things will settle in that perhaps technology will remove a lot of the things we're responsible for, yet we still will have responsibilities. It's not gonna be in the same way. But um just like that last thing, a a child's curiosity can't be scripted, but tools can open doors, so discovery never stops. And in a future of automation, creativity won't vanish, it will be our most valuable currency. So think about that. Creativity being a currency, and I think this is the part where we really need to give pause and think about machines are doing a lot of things that, you know, a lot of the tasks, a lot of the we would put our brain on. But we are creative people, and there's a fear that, oh, the computer's just gonna do everything, they're gonna get rid of artists, they're gonna get rid of, you know, you name it. I mean, we do web design, and it's like, you know, computers are gonna get rid of that. Well, there have been platforms left and right that made websites for many, many, many years. But I think usually people like the relationship with who they're dealing with, not necessarily this product that they feel like's gonna do it for them. And um and I guess kind of lastly here, the more digital our world grows, the more our humanness becomes the rare and priceless element. Don't forget what you add to the equation. And if you're intimidated by technology, realize who you are and your connections with other people.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Yes, you know, because you know it it gets back to that relationship. Computers are never going to take that over. And you know, it's yes, they can do things, sure. Okay, they can do AI is Google and steroids, it can do a lot of research for you.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Um but the complexities of the true human mind.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

The complexity and the human mind is still behind asking for it to do what it needs to do, you know. So part of that becomes, yes, if this is the next tool, I need to learn it because just like you know, I had to learn how to do a search engine, I had to learn how to use a card catalog and figure out how to find that book deep in the library somewhere, and to realize also gaze at the card catalog. Yeah, I mean, it's it the these are you know it it continues to evolve. But and technology will evolve, but we're still human, we still have heart, we still have creativity, we still have that spirit that technology is not gonna be able to take from us. But if it takes a lot of this other stuff from us, it's now empowered us to be better people to one another. So with all that said, uh here on signing off on Wired Together, and of course you can find us on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, your smart TV, Spotify, and uh Amazon Music, and all of your favorite channels. Um, of course, you can find us on our website and uh unplugging for now.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

But always stay tuned.