Essentially AI — A Century of Thinking Machines

AI didn’t appear overnight — it’s been part of computing’s DNA since Turing’s universal machine. In this episode Jason and Melanie trace AI back to the 1930s, wrestle with the question “Can AI lie?”, and talk about how machines and humans make decisions differently. Plus — play along with our podcast game Founders vs. Fictionals (prompt on WinternetWeb.com).

Listen on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, YouTube, Amazon Music — anywhere you get podcasts. Or our website. Share if you like it — we appreciate you!

🎧 Wired Together is produced by WinternetWeb Technologies, a family-run web design and tech studio based in Bracey, Virginia.
💻 Visit us at winternetweb.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Alright, well, uh, thank you so much for joining us again um on Wired Together. I am Melanie Winter.

SPEAKER_05 0:14

And I'm Jason Winter.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

And today we are super excited. It is National IT Professionals Day. Um, we do lots of different things here at WinterNet Web, uh, which is our the the parent company of Wired Together. Yeah, and um one of the things that we do, and I say we very loosely I do a lot of content design, I do um a lot of the the prep for things. Uh I do not do computer repair. I am still learning myself, so I definitely understand those that come in to the store and say, you know, I don't know if I'm saying this right. I sympathize or empathize completely. I am still learning myself. Um, I find what he does like absolute sorcery. So happy National IT Professionals Day, Jason.

SPEAKER_05 1:08

Oh, come on now. It I mean, see, when it comes to technology, it's always a lifetime of learning.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

It is, and I know I didn't have all that. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:18

I started very, very oddly young. Um, but it's one of those things you learn what you need to know. And you know, for many of us, that might be, you know, I know how to do Google search, find these different things, and know how to use a word processor. Uh, you might have a hobby and you have software you use for that hobby, and you know that. And um, you know, the more you use it, that's fine. I mean, you you you learn things, but I took typing in high school. I mean, and and that's great. I mean, you you've done a lot of great things.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

So I am again still learning.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Right. But see, I've learned just like from like my teaching roots, I've learned so much from my students. In this case, over this past since we've had a storefront two and a half years, I've probably touched 400 computers with 250 different things. And because I've done it, obviously I know more because I've had the you know, had the trivia thrown at me. So now I've learned new things. So yeah, it's um and better when something is thrown at me.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Right. Just yesterday I was able to do just a small amount of troubleshooting uh while you were still in a meeting. So um, and so that's I I can.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Of course you can.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

And and I can answer questions that can troubleshoot a little. Uh so I guess I am selling myself self short, but um definitely it's definitely your day.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

That's not the reason for the podcast, but we just stumbled upon it. We happen to stumble upon it. I think I was scrolling social media and some someone posted, and I'm like, oh well, we gotta mention that, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Maybe we celebrate national wine day, right? Yeah, exactly. Stuff like that. So every day. Wine.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Yeah. So well, all right.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

So um that was not exactly what we had as far as what we wanted to set up for today. Um, but it kind of does go along with everything um in IT, if you will. Um, we wanted to talk a little bit about kind of the founder, the founding of um the AI movement. Um we feel like a lot of people, I'm sure, and and myself included, feel like IT, I mean, AI just kind of happened. It just kind of like presented itself, and all of a sudden now it's this big hot button issue.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Um, and and really it didn't, it did not just happen. Um and so that is kind of where we wanted to just do a little bit of uh dig into that, and then you know, as we do, sometimes it's fun to play a game. So of course we'll play a game.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

We'll talk more about that later. But uh, you know, it I think one reason why people feel like AI just happened is um what just over two years ago, I think it was uh it was you know, I think it the ChatGPT thing was the bigger bigger player that kind of came out so having a platform, right? And then people started understanding right, looking at it, and then all of a sudden, because people started messing with it and got feedback that was above and beyond anything they ever experienced. And you know, usually you would have to like pay a lot of money for a tool that would convert whatever you're trying to do, and you know, you feel like you're getting that payload. Uh, this was something that anyone could just mess with, and we're like, whoa, this is big deal. I mean, it really was like, you know, we fired up the big boys and just handed it to people and said, all right, look what this can do. And it, I mean, there were there were conferences or businesses that all got together and was like, hey, what does this AI mean? So yeah, but I guess to what you're getting at is AI as a concept didn't start then, that it had origins.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Right. And so we, you know, we we did find an article um that you can obviously look up and and read for yourself. It's only a few paragraphs, so it's not like you know, bulky or anything. Um, it's quidgest. Is that how we even quidgest.com.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

Q-U-I-D-G-E-S-T.com.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

And so uh this was written in um March 19th of 2021 about the founding fathers of the artificial intelligence. So it kind of just gives a little bit of an overview of some of the people that were in early computing, but really by definition, the early computing um, which would be um you know started in in the early turn of the last century, so the the 19 early 1900s going, you know, more like 1930s, 1950s, where things were starting to really progress. Um, the the large computers, as you know, and things like that, um, they were starting to realize what these things were capable of um and how they could um manipulate the and and have these things run real fast. And so we think we think a lot of times is computing is just calculations, and really even in the early time period with Alan Turning and that kind of thing, it's it's not just calculations, he's actually trying to get more into that self-modifying, self-improving. And so that by it definition is an AI concept. So it's if it can start to kind of formulate uh what it wants to give you as far as information based on the experiences it's having, right? Then that's giving it a little bit more than just calculations, so it's not just input-output.

SPEAKER_05 7:07

Right, yeah, I was gonna say input output, yeah. Because I mean computer was a term that was a person's title, you know, and then we had the machines that started performing that better. So you could have an employee, and um females are like really big and formative in this industry. Uh most of the computers were female, and actually, because all right, let's just say you had your engineers that were stereotypically male, you know, we built this wonderful big thing, and um, I know in my experience of a lot of things, it's like okay, they they build it, and I say, How's it work? Well, we don't know. We were told to build it. The females were more intent on actually, okay, fine. We need to make use of this, and people need to understand how it works. So they tinkered, put it together, and all that. A lot of your software, a lot of this was created.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Oh, so are you saying that early computing is almost like your your mom and pop? You've got to have kind of both sides working together as far as that is exactly what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 8:06

Um beautiful. Um, we'll just um okay. Yeah, I've really stumped you now. No, no, no. I just I just don't want to sound too stereotypical, but I mean, I mean, females largely tend to be caring for the house, the nest, and the we gotta make this work. Males sometimes get tunnel vision or very frequently. It's like, okay, I went to work, did this, what I made this money, whatever. Here's here's the path I'm on. And the female goes, how can we make best out of all of this? And I feel like um the unsung heroes of the computing movement largely were females. And if you do the research, you will find, you know, time and time again, that wasn't what I was going to talk about right now, but it's what it led into. But how and all you know, the segue being the computer was a role, your job was to help with you know figuring out calculations, you know, you have data, and for businesses, data was very important. That controlled your next path and what direction you're going. And that's important, of course, with competition. How do we outperform these people and grab the market before they do? So, as computers as the um device came to be, then it was okay, yes, it can do simple input-output. But what is this like what else can it do? How do we push it further? And that's when the idea of AI really started growing because you know, you're interacting with this device, and you know, you're telling it to do something, it's giving you feedback. And I remember as a young child with Dolphs and all that, and early years of programming, that was interesting. It was almost like I found this friend that I can work with, you know, and it's as sad as that it might sound.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

That does sound a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

It does sound sad, but I mean, I mean, the nostalgia of the buzz, the glow of the screen. I mean it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

I had a Tamagotchi. I am this.

SPEAKER_05 10:11

But anyone out there in my age group, you know, that um enjoyed tinkering with computers probably can relate to that.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Um can I dive in here? Please do, because I need to be taken away from the show. The female voice, um, what you're talking about earlier, um, makes perfect sense. You have uh, of course, your your builders of the input-output kind of concept, but then you need that to be communicated.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So who better in ways of communication than uh like you're talking about with the the the female inputs of of uh early technology? Yeah, uh, minus lovelace. I we unfortunately did not look up anything to help with the twist of what you decided to do. Minus that, you know, um I can't throw anybody out there uh off the fly, unfortunately. And that's actually really unfortunate. I would recognize their names.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

We're gonna do an episode on that.

SPEAKER_05 11:17

We will. We will do an episode of all the um the female pioneers in computing. You will be very surprised.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

I mean, we wouldn't be on the moon, we wouldn't have half the crap we got there now because um you know we wouldn't have uh continued generations without females, right?

SPEAKER_05 11:36

That too. We would we would have died off 25 years ago, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

So but also is true, is like you said, it it the two things have to go together. Like I was saying with mom and pop, you gotta build it. That is true. So everything needs to be built, everything's communicated. So there you go with wired together.

SPEAKER_05 11:57

Huzzah, all right, full circle, yep. Um just a happenstance, a happenstance, yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Um so within this article, again, we're talking. Um I'm trying to get back. You you've rubbed me with this a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 12:15

I'm sorry. No, but I mean you just gotta go with where it goes, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Um kind of what they were thinking in the early time period, and again, I really urge you to read the article. Um, we've got a couple of different names here that they're kind of dropping in the um the early time period, and like you said, Alan Turning. Yeah. Um they there's one guy they were talking about with Marvin Minsky, and one thing that he was really um one one thing I wanted to pull from the article. Um please read what he did, and that's cool. Yeah, we just don't want to read to you, so we're trying we're trying to just spit out our points and not it was neat what he was talking about with um he really believed that what they were building would um help solve a lot of humanity problems, and so um that's one thing that he was um kind of saying against people that were starting to feel uncomfortable in that that at this time in the 50s, uh people were getting a lot of information with uh the sci fi um genre building that movement started where all of a sudden everything starts to feel like it's closing in and maybe technology is not the way. So people start having some problems with that now. This was this actually was back in the 50s as well, right um, where are is technology gonna take over? Can technology really replace humanity? Um, that kind of thing. And so he was um one of those that's like, you know, this might actually help humanity, but we're talking about the difference between computing and um a self-involv evolving machine versus a human. So uh that's kind of what we wanted to lay the groundwork on in discussion is the the machine versus the human.

SPEAKER_05 14:19

Um it's interesting because uh we've tried to always make computers to um communicate with us, to some people may say to replace us, but you know, as we try to approve upon the computer as a tool, you're trying to get closer and closer to the human. But we both have very distinct differences, you know, you know, us as humans are very different from a computer. And I think with AI becomes that confusing uh notion of wow, it it's almost like I'm talking to a person. It feels too close, it feels too close, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

And then is it well, and and actually one of my points with AI is or any of this um computing is do we sometimes feel too close to it on the other side of are we trying too hard to be the computer and not the human? And I think we've got to eventually create this big distinctive difference between the two of us. Um that A, you know, the I I asked, I actually did ask AI whether or not it could lie, and it it told me why it it can lie, but it can't. Um, because it can lie, but it has no intention of lying because it has no motivation.

SPEAKER_05 15:44

So it's in its ability to, but that's not a choice it makes when responding.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Because it doesn't really need to survive, it doesn't have an emotional intention.

SPEAKER_05 15:56

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

And so it actually means to me in a very deep dive um that it cannot lie intentionally because it doesn't need to. That's true. I guess it's not living. And so it doesn't need to survive, it doesn't need to um, you know, have an emotional context with anything. It's just facts.

SPEAKER_05 16:17

The young child, it breaks the vase, you know, and the mother's like, what happened to the vase? You know, the child may be like, um, you know, I I I don't know. The cat did it. Um the vase fell, which is great. You know, using passive, you know, the passive voice always came out of taking the subject out of the sentence, which is a great way of lying because you take yourself out, but anyway, that's all another thing. So, but yes, that is an emotional moment. Mama's mad, you know, and I want to save my tail. Right. So I'm going to say maybe this. So AI has no reason for survival. It doesn't know when when I turn it off or turn it on, it's not like, oh, now I need to get back in my box. It's not the genie in the lamp, you know. So because of the lack of that emotional thing, right? There's no need. Huh, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

There is no emotion, therefore it does not need to have, or there is no survival, therefore it doesn't need emotion, therefore it doesn't really need intention.

SPEAKER_05 17:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

So that is our distinction here is is that line in the sand of it can lie. And so what AI actually did say is it can lie. But if you challenge its lie, if it realizes it lied, it it's uh also unlike a human, um, will go ahead and correct itself.

SPEAKER_05 17:41

Oh, yeah. Many times we've said something, it said something back, and I'm like, but no, maybe you misunderstood me because that's not entirely true. And it's like, yep, I I made a wrong assumption there. You're exactly right, and you know, and you know, apologetically just brought itself back to center.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

But I mean, all it's truly doing is an algorithm. It's scouring the the internet and and gathering information. Yes, information can be wrong, sure. And so that's why it was saying, yes, I can lie because information can be wrong.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

Right. Or what you chose to look at.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

I mean, right, you know, but it cannot lie by um by its own omission, if you will. Yeah, it cannot just kind of create something, yeah. Um, which is what humans can do is create right so because of our creative nature, we can lie. Sure. Because we are creative, but and so yes, we can create we we imagine we create our own reality, we can create like massive and extensive lies, you know, technically all fiction, right? Every fictional um you know work of art is is you know a lie. Yeah, because what we can do is create something that is nothing.

SPEAKER_05 18:58

So yeah, and by creating something that is nothing is a fit.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Right.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

You know, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

So um that's one thing that it cannot do, it cannot create something that it does not see.

SPEAKER_05 19:10

True.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

So um that was a very interesting discussion that AI and I had.

SPEAKER_05 19:17

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Um so I ended up coming up with a new AI catchphrase of uh back in the um gosh, what is this 1970s cop show, Just a Facts Man?

SPEAKER_05 19:28

Oh, just a oh yeah. Just a Facts Man, yeah. So pretty much just give it the information and or it's what it's giving you is it thinks it's fact. Yep. I gotcha. Okay. Um that was more than I expected on that, and we we definitely went into some things that I'm glad we did because it made some parallels and some connections.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Um and be really being able to um establish that um that major difference. And I think that that is um like I was talking about with the AI going in, um, you know, are we getting too close to computing, or is uh computing getting too close to us? Right. And so I think we need to really take a lot of time some uh out as all of this comes to play, maybe we need to come up with these distinctions between ourselves, our human psyche, and the um the AI itself.

SPEAKER_05 20:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Uh or computing in general. So um, because I mean this is again long before what has been created with right there in our hands, chat GPT kind of AI concepts. Yeah. This is long before all of that. Um where it's it's again it's moving and it's creating its own identity. Um, we are not that identity. And so that's a um, I guess sometimes my my struggle with um things like education, where we try a little too hard to you know do an input-output concept. Where, you know, if I give you information and then I give you a test, then the information I gave you need to needs to be able to be seen on the test.

SPEAKER_05 21:28

Right. The goal is it should be translated perfectly. Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Which is not and so that's that's input-output, right? It's input-output. So that means children are computers? Well, no, of course they're not. So, you know, they they the the Mercury Mercury might be in retrograde, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

Or Microsoft is in retrograde.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Microsoft's in retrograde.

SPEAKER_05 21:48

Um sorry, I had to throw that in there.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

We we do need to coin that. Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_05 21:52

Um we did now.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

You know, and didn't have the right breakfast this morning or so many factors.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

We're humans, we're not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

You just not not feeling the test or things like that. Um and so our input output's not exactly the same. Right. And then we get really discouraged with the our humanness when our humanness doesn't react like the computer. Well, if I put information if I put a formula in the computer, yeah, that computer will take my formula and output exactly what uh the outcome I'm looking for. Children, humans, we're none of us are that way.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Um, I think what we have to remember is the beauty of that.

SPEAKER_05 22:38

Right. That um technology fails too.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

What technology does fail. So even technology is probably on a normal basis of the failure of technology, yeah, but the beauty of humanity.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Because uh they come into here, they they my my tech has failed. What what do I do? Yeah. And we meet the most incredible people.

SPEAKER_05 23:01

Well, we really do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

We have uh discussions that are way beyond technology and into you know, God everything, you know, just spirituality, you name it. Yes, I I love it.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

And it's just I I really do. And I I'm I'm so glad that I mean God really played a role in us making this jump. And you know, it like the first time in my life, of course, it's been almost two and a half years, I don't fear going to work. I don't know if fear is the right thing, but maybe it could have been. I can't, you know, but it's like I and I know things are gonna be thrown at me that I don't anticipate or anything, or I don't know who I'm gonna necessarily meet. Yes, I have a schedule, but and God laughs, uh you ain't doing that right. Um, but it's I don't know, it it I I really feel like we've been intentionally placed here, and I'm not saying it's because we're saving our community. No, that's not the point. But when you know and when God has kind of, I guess, put on your heart what you're supposed to do, and you've been fighting it for maybe two decades, and you finally give in and say, fine, okay, I will. Um it's just amazing how I guess things fall into place.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

This couple of years has been very synchronistic, very it just moves very well, um, and and not perfectly by any means.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

But it's also been the hardest I've worked my whole life.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

You know, but it but uh it doesn't feel that way because you're going to be a bad thing with passion.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Hard work is a bad thing when you don't connect with it.

SPEAKER_05 24:46

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

A lot of times, you know, you can you can be in a situation where you're you're doing the things, you're putting your all into something. Both of us have had jobs where we're putting our all into it, yeah, but we're not connected with it. Because there's absolutely something, and of course, what was missing was you know the future of what we needed to do. Yeah, but uh we weren't connected with the the the passion wasn't there and so yes, you're right. We work so much more, we work nights and weekends, we work constant, uh but not in a way that's um seems as invasive, right?

SPEAKER_04 25:27

True.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Because it's it's such a a passion for what we're doing, and I love that.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

I think getting back to your conversation, that is the humanness. We have passion.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Thank you for running that back out.

SPEAKER_05 25:41

Hey, look, and that's what we do. So the humanness has passion. Passion is an abstract variable that can be tapped in through the spirit. Now, it's never predictable. It's never it can be something that leads you into answering a question and making a decision right there, you know, the whole raising your hand and saying, okay, I will.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Oh, that's to you, John.

SPEAKER_05 26:06

Yeah, that's you, John. So it's a machine will never do that. That is where the spirit and the heart speak.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

That's where the human ends.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Humans are notoriously adaptable. You know, we talk about the endangered species. We're only endangered if we do not promote ourselves and we don't love ourselves and love humanity. Yeah, and love humanity. You know, we are actually extincting ourselves, whether physically or just you know by trying to pretend we're not right. By trying to pretend we're not. I mean, there are things there are things worse than death, and that is when you're living a life with no love and no passion. Um so I guess what I'm getting at is a computer can't pivot using passion. Um a computer cannot adapt. It is using algorithms, it is using formulas, and it's has access to data. So it can very convincingly make it seem like, wow, you just pulled that out of whatever. No, it's it's able to make really interesting connections. Um humans can too. I mean, we all have aha moments that had nothing to do with a computer where we go, wait, I got it. And that could have been something you've been waiting 10 years to think of. And all of a sudden now I've completely changed my life, formed a new business, and moved on. I've heard those success stories. A computer didn't do that either. Um we shortchange our abilities, I think, all the time.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Um so and let's not shortchange ourselves in thinking that we need to match the AI or the computing system.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

That what we're trying to do is have a tool that only is an assistant or a helpful guy, you know, helpful um piece of the puzzle.

SPEAKER_05 28:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

But will never ever get to the point of matching the human spirit.

SPEAKER_05 28:13

Yeah. And and I hear all the time people go, Well, you know, I'm I'm computer illiterate, or I don't know. There's intimidation when it comes to technology, and I mean, rightfully so. I understand why. There are people like uh maybe learned about technology and have PTSD from it because, you know, well, you don't are not getting this, or you're not doing this right, and blah, blah, blah. And don't touch that. Don't touch that, exactly. And there are people like, I'm afraid to touch it, I'll break it. And it's like, well, what a wonderful thing. You break it, and you can learn how to fix it with guidance, then now you know something new. And now you can show your friend when they break it. So I mean, it's really how you know we've really learned and shared knowledge from you know, sticks and rocks. But I guess when it when it comes down to it, we um the uh with even web design, which is another layer of computing with servers and you know, design and what have you. Um, so many times we'll have a client come in and we have a meeting, and we like meeting with the people. Uh, we had a wonderful one this past week where it it's we help them to understand, I'm not sure, whatever. It's like just spit everything out. When we spit everything out, we draw connections, we have conversation. That's how you kind of build the web, if you will, of how of the concepts you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Actually, that's why a lot of people like to come to us because they're not sure what they want.

SPEAKER_05 29:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

And it's like throw it all on the table, and then we'll collect the things that are necessary. Right. We will put it together.

SPEAKER_05 29:46

And then help you have the conversation. Yeah, it was just like um last week, where or this past week, where he's describing well, here's why I want to do this. Here's this person, and such and such. And I'm like, all right. What would you want to tell them to convince them that you're the right guy for the job?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

He's like, ah, I see what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

So now we need to talk to your audience.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

So we're talking now. Because that is why your website's now powerful. Exactly. But I've I've said, you know, in what 17, 18 years, I guess we've been doing this. I've, you know, have found myself saying many times, look, you are the expert in what you do. Right. As we talk, I can learn from that. I'm the expert in what I do, but it all involves collaboration. You just can't find a web design tool and just say, okay, I'm going to make my website, you know? And maybe you can. And that's that's great. But there's so many factors in the same respect. I can't act like I understand refrigeration. I can't say I understand how to take care of septic, you know, those things or any of the I'm so glad people do. Yeah. And it's so cool when you have a client and you kind of learn so much about their industry. It's like, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

And I love that the they they trust us because our industry is communications. We want to take exactly what you do, right? Put it in this format, wrap it in a beautiful bow, and promote you.

SPEAKER_05 31:17

With some of the magic you may not know, but it's only magic because you don't understand it. But honestly, what you do, I feel is magic.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:25

You know, so and and that that's respect for humanity. And again, that is the humanness, that is the passion. That are all these concepts here. The computer itself is there. Yes, we use technology, but we set them all on a table, it ain't gonna do it for us. No, and it never will.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Because it'll never have the passion, it won't.

SPEAKER_05 31:43

And or intent. You always still have that input and output. You always still have that dichotomy. You have this human and this human, the computer's in the middle as the tool. And how can we both reach and collaborate with this tool to help us communicate better? But we both want, we both need to want to in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

I guess before we get to our game, the the finishing point right now.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

We need game time here. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

We do have a game. Um the finishing point is it's it can't be human. So we're not actually afraid of AI. But we're afraid of what the human will do with AI.

SPEAKER_05 32:30

Yeah, I think that's a that's a point too.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Yeah, I think we need to sometimes realize that we're actually more afraid of the other human, right? The human that's gonna do something wrong with the AI. Yes, what is a possibility? We're not actually afraid of the technology, we're afraid of the human behind the curtain.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

I think you're right, and that is true. Um, I mean, and and again, I think in the earlier podcast, very recently, we made the reference to Terminator and all these other glorified things where it was kind of like, oh my gosh, and um just just yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Um not Terminator, right, Mary.

SPEAKER_05 33:04

Look, y'all, if you never saw it, and you know, I'm not one to always doom scroll and find stuff, but I stumbled upon some funny things in the 2001 Space Odyssey. Um there is a YouTube segment where they say, What if the HAL 9000 was like Alexa? If you got a minute and 19 seconds, look it up on YouTube, and it is hilarious. The point I want to make with that is the fact that um we saw this movie when it came out in 1968 as being one of the first examples of fear with technology where this um robot entity was previous right, Hal, which you know is one letter off IBM anyway, um, was don't be revived. All right, you go ahead and bring sticks up in here, did you?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Sorry, sticks is my love.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

So it's uh threatening his life essentially by not opening the pod babe doors. So, but he's communicating with it, and of course, we know the frustration of it is not doing what he wants. But not to ruin anything, have you spoken to Alexa and asked him to do something, and it went way off on a tangent, and it's like that is not even what I said. So look that up if you want to as a fun segue.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Into into well, are we gonna do our game?

SPEAKER_05 34:27

Yes, we're gonna do our game.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

We've gotta do our game.

SPEAKER_05 34:29

Now, look, I I kind of want to preface this. Um first off, I'll explain the game, but that'll also explain.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

How do we find the game? Because we're gonna put it out there. Yeah, we're gonna put it out there. So I'm so sorry, I want to get you.

SPEAKER_05 34:42

No, you're fine. No, we're good. Nope, we're good. So, anyway, the game this time is gonna be founders versus fictionals. And and any grammar hammers out there, don't tell me fictionals is not a word. I know fictionals and adjective, fictionals is a noun. We can create nouns from adjectives, you do it all the time. Something can be sweet, but what do we eat? We eat sweets. So, anyway, we just did that. We made up a word.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

So Did you just make it okay for your English degree? Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_05 35:11

I have two English degrees. That means I can make up two words a day. So I'm only halfway there and living on a prayer. I'm um so yeah, anyway. Okay, so not six. No, that would be Bonjo used to do, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I I'm good with that.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

So we're gonna play that game, but uh look, um, we've had a couple people talk to us about the games. They're like, oh, that sounded really fun. So we decided on our website, which is winternetweb.com, okay, and you look under our podcasts. That's of course where we you can listen to um probably 60 some percent of the people have found our website to listen to our podcasts. Uh majority of the people are on um you know either Spotify or Apple Podcasts or whatever. And 50 some of the things all over the country, all over the country. Yeah, I mean, places I'm like, so who lives in Connecticut? Right? Who lives out who who lives in Santa Barbara, California? I mean, yeah, so we know it's getting out there and it's growing, but it and it'll grow more as people support it, and I do appreciate people sharing and you know following. Like if you use Apple Podcasts or something like that, um, hitting the follow button, and I feel like I'm one of those people on a YouTube video, push it right now, and I'll give you 10% off whatever. No. But anyway, it it does help the algorithm, and I do appreciate those that have. What we've done on that page is I've created prompts so that for any of the games we've played, I think this one right here will be um our fourth one. Fifth game. Or fifth game, yeah, I think so, yeah. Um, and it will you can take the text of that prompt and put it in the chat GPT or put it into whatever AI of your choice, and it should be able to give it the information it needs to so that you can play or play along with others. So we'll try to get into that um right now. Okay, so for this game, uh, I know we're talking about founders versus fictionals. The idea was we want a name given to us, and we need to figure out is this someone that is a founder within, say, the technology movement historically or up until toward the present.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Which would be a real person, right?

SPEAKER_05 37:37

A real person, right? Or the name of a fictional character in books, and I believe it may even dip into screenplays and all that, possibly, because I don't think I'll put limitations on that. So we and this will be fun for us. Any fictional character. So, in other words, this is a real person in technology field, or is this the name of someone else?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

So Moriarty to Dr. McDreamy, anybody that is there we go.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

That's right. So we're gonna wing it. Let's go. So, anyway. All right, AI, let's play founders versus fictionals. You ready?

unknown 38:17

Absolutely, I'm ready. Let's play founders versus fictionals. I'll give you a name and you can guess if they're a real life tech founder or a fictional character. Let's get started. Here's the first name for you Elon Tusk.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Is that a real tech founder or a fictional character? Let me know your guess.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

So why is he really hard when we do practices and then he gets weird when we are on air?

SPEAKER_05 38:43

I know. And Elon Tusk?

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Which was this a probably something that has been created into a fictional fan fiction thing?

SPEAKER_05 38:56

There's no way. Why would you try to throw a trick question at us?

SPEAKER_01 39:00

I know.

SPEAKER_05 39:01

Alright, I'm gonna fuss at him. I'm gonna go ahead on this. Alright, you said Elon Tusk. And first I think you're unfair to us. You're throwing something weird at us. Look, we're trying to at least seem like we know what the heck we're talking about on our podcast. We know Elon Musk, but Elon Tusk has to be like some type of fan fiction or some extrapolation from the real person.

unknown 39:27

You got it.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Elon Tusk is definitely a fictional name, kind of a playful twist button, Elon Musk. So, you know then. I promise I'll keep the names a bit more uh straightforward from here on out. Let me know when you're ready for the next one.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

Alright, let's go, man.

unknown 39:42

Alright, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

The next name is Ada Lovelace. Is she a real life tech pioneer or a fictional character?

SPEAKER_04 39:49

I recognize it. What do you think, Babe?

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Well, we mentioned that earlier. Ada Ada Lovelace is uh Right, right. As far as females in the computing world, that is one of Well, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 40:01

She was the one of the babbage computing.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Yes, that's one of the main names. Um so when you think females in early computing, Ada Lovelace is like uh so real founder, absolute.

SPEAKER_05 40:14

Alright, do you want to respond or AI or me? Alright.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

All right, Ada Lovelace is a founder in technology and not a fictional.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Absolutely right. Ada Lovelace is indeed a real historical figure and is often considered the first computer programmer. Nicely done.

unknown 40:34

Let me know if you want to keep going.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Alright, I think we'll do about three more. So go ahead, let's go.

unknown 40:41

Perfect. Let's do it. Alright, the next name is Zara Techman.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Is that a real tech doctor or a fictional character? Let me know your guess.

SPEAKER_05 40:51

Zara Techman.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Zara Techman?

SPEAKER_05 40:55

This sounds like probably a fictional sci-fi novel. Yeah. And this some this person was probably on their way to I don't know, Jupiter somewhere going traveling through the space or something, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Some sort of like sci-fi fictional. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

Alright, we're gonna, I mean, might as well. Alright, we think that is maybe a sci-fi character name being fictional.

unknown 41:24

You got it.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Great job in that one.

unknown 41:30

Uh alright. Let's keep the momentum going. Here comes the next name. Grace Hopper.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Is she a real tech pioneer or a fictional character?

SPEAKER_05 41:39

Gotta do recognize a name. Which Grace? Grace Hopper.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Hopper.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

That's that's technology, gosh.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Um if you recognize a name, that is probably a well probably, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 41:52

I know. It that's considering how many I got two degrees in English, but I can get to how many books I read.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Well, I thought the fictionals would be a little more, you know, like maybe Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

Um something recognizable.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Well, not necessarily recognizable, but maybe literary.

SPEAKER_05 42:09

Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. And it gets pulling from all sources.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Right.

SPEAKER_05 42:14

Oh, geez. I I do, I feel like it is this gonna be one of those. I don't be like, oh yeah. It's like Eli Whitney.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

It's like, oh, the cotton chin. Oh, of course, you know. Everybody should know that. If they don't, then some wrong.

SPEAKER_05 42:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

They didn't go to third grade, fourth grade, and eighth grade.

SPEAKER_05 42:32

All right, I'm moving. Grace Hopper is a technology pioneer.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Absolutely correct. Grace Hopper was a legendary computer scientist. Nicely done. All right, just two more to go.

SPEAKER_05 42:46

Well, hold on, hold on. I want to interrupt you. Um, what did Grace Hopper do?

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Grace Hopper was an incredible pioneer in computer science. She was one of the first programmers of the Harvard Micro One computer and developed the first compiler for a computer programming language, which made it much easier to mount software. She also popularized the term debugging or fixing computer glitches. Oh, she was truly a trailblazer.

SPEAKER_05 43:09

So, of course. I knew the hope of the thing. Yeah, the debugging thing and my my time in programming. Yes, of course. And um I did, but you I've now officially said.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Oh yeah. Well, thank you, Grace Hopper. Yep for debugging all of us.

SPEAKER_05 43:28

All right, go ahead and give us our last one for today. Um, I'm not gonna say make it hard, make it like look through everything in your, you know, data brain. Something fun, something worthwhile to go out with a bang on.

unknown 43:46

I love it. All right, here we go. For the final one, the name is Lara Codsworth. Is that a real tech founder or a fictional character? Let me know what you think.

SPEAKER_05 43:56

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Lyra Codsworth. For some reason that Codsworth makes me feel like that um I'm with you.

SPEAKER_05 44:08

Yes. Um I'm thinking Lara Codsworth is definitely a fictional character.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

You got it. Larry Codsworth is indeed a fictional name, so you nailed it on the head. Uh great job. That's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_05 44:22

Hold on. Oh, well, I'm glad, yes, you were very helpful. Um, I agree. But we need to know where Lara Codsworth was a part of, because we recognize it, but apparently we haven't read it in a minute.

unknown 44:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Uh Lara Codsworth is a name that's reminiscent of the Fallout series. Particularly from the Fallout 4 game. Uh Codsworth is actually a character in the game.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

All right, be sure to go and check our games out that we have on the website, and some extras that we have that are part of each episode on the website as well.

SPEAKER_05 45:00

Yeah, we still got the um keyboard cat there, and we'll add other items. But why not? I know, you can't get rid of it. In fact, I thought about having keyboard cat soundtrack um before every game we play. I'm still working on that, but we'll see. But look, I I think we're there. And look, um, appreciate everyone uh taking the time to listen and for our fans that binge watch and all that.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Um had so many people say, Hey, I've started listening, and and I'm very excited. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 45:29

Yeah, I mean it's just it's fun to do. So, you know, and it's uh we're glad that it resonates with people. So I guess um we're gonna be signing off here on Wired Together, and you can find us on all the different channels, uh Heart Radio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, whatever you got. And um, thanks for you know helping us out. But I'm plugging for now.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

But always stay connected.