The Portrait Brain

What if the ADHD brain is not losing information at all? What if it is organizing it differently?

In Wired Together, Season 2, Episode 7, Jason and Melanie begin a new series exploring ADHD, technology, learning, and the way some minds process the world through connection rather than isolated recall.

This episode introduces the idea of the “portrait brain.” Instead of storing information like a filing cabinet, some people seem to build understanding like a painting. Facts blend with story, emotion, context, and meaning. That can make traditional testing difficult, even when real understanding is clearly there.

Jason and Melanie talk through what this looks like in family life, school, and everyday learning. They also explore a bigger question. If technology can now help with storage, organization, reminders, and retrieval, then are we still measuring the right things? And could the very traits often seen as weaknesses in ADHD actually point toward strengths the modern world needs more than ever?

This episode is thoughtful, personal, and practical. It is for parents, teachers, adults with ADHD, and anyone who has ever felt the frustration of knowing something deeply but struggling to produce it on demand.

If you want the conversation behind the concept, listen to the episode. If you want the deeper read after the conversation, this podicle is the companion piece.

🎧 Wired Together is produced by WinternetWeb Technologies, a family-run web design and tech studio based in Bracey, Virginia.
💻 Visit us at winternetweb.com 

Transcript

Melanie 0:05

Welcome to Wire Together with Winternet Web and your hosts, uh Melanie Winter and Jason Winter. And today we're gonna get through this. We are going to talk about something that is very close to our hearts, um, very close to and very near and dear to our family and how we function through. So um that being said, this is actually gonna be part of a series. Uh we are gonna explore the ADHD brain and the use of technology. Now, I know everybody's gonna be like, oh right, because ADHD and technology, that's definitely the cause and the effect. Hold up.

Jason 0:54

Hold on.

Melanie 0:56

We're gonna talk about if it's done right, this may not just help, but actually be the why this style of brain has already been created and wired for future endeavors. So maybe the lean in of the ADHD brain is exactly what's necessary for future.

Jason 1:18

Yeah.

Melanie 1:19

So that's kind of where we're going with this.

Jason 1:22

Yeah.

Melanie 1:23

Um being the first of the series, we're we've uh titled the series the or this this first episode as the portrait brain. And that is where we're gonna dig deeper into the question of does the ADHD brain lose information or does it reorganize it?

Jason 1:48

Yeah.

Melanie 1:50

So that is what we're kind of gonna break down as far as uh parents, teachers, um typically ADHD, we're thinking more children. Yeah, how do we navigate, how do we deal with this? Um so as a parent, I can definitely vouch for this. I've got uh obviously Jason here is is the teaching side of things and parent. And you know, I know y'all are shocked, right? Also someone with ADHD and who uses technology with the ADHD brain. So this is something we definitely know. Right.

Jason 2:36

Well, I mean, uh we know from past things on the show, and of course, my uh what do you call it? Uh affinity, but I guess the word I'm looking for is one that is more like you gravitate to things and but the history of computer programming and all of that. And as you were talking with the intro, I was just thinking, yeah, the ADHD and technology, and there are not many people that I know with ADHD that does not have some type of infatuation with our emergence of technology, like in a sense of almost like, oh, I get you, I understand you. You are potentially you can provide some type of outlet for my brain. Right. Part of that can be because typically the ADHD brain is firing a lot, that serves a lot of content, so it has that purpose.

Melanie 3:36

Right. That need to run around and suck up information. Exactly. Right.

Jason 3:41

Our our concern here, what we're going to get into is well, if that information is there, are we fairly evaluating it whether it is there? Um, because the way things are stored in the brain is certainly um chaotic at best. But yeah, we'll we'll just we'll keep talking from there, but I just want to kind of say I'm like I I just noticed that parallel right when you were giving that intro, but yeah, so we'll keep going.

Melanie 4:15

So um our youngest daughter is uh definitely a hope, lesser will heart, very ADHD. Um, and very is is I guess unfair, but um she is the ADHD girl.

Jason 4:35

Yeah, so not always something you see, archetype, but definitely something that um is happening, yeah.

Melanie 4:42

And so I did have the luxury, um, of course, they were very young during COVID, and so I had a second grader and a kindergartner when COVID started. Um so for our youngest daughter, she was at the end of kindergarten till third grade where we um homeschooled. Yeah, and so I've actually had the luxury of teaching this poor child, right? Um, and and trying to figure it out, trying to really understand it. Um one thing that's been very helpful in my my life is I grew up with ADHD, and so my um in my family, we are not unsure about this particular subject. We know quite quite a bit about it.

Jason 5:36

So there are people in your family, but we won't name them. Um but it was much love, much love, but it was within your circle, it was in my purviews, right?

Melanie 5:48

Definitely something I was always trying to kind of wrap my head around. I was I was actually more of the the reader, the quiet one. Um so as far as functioning, I was not more chaotic, and that was definitely gonna be the where did Melanie go? Oh right, she's in a corner reading a book. Reading a book, yeah. You know, so um and so that was really helpful for the rest of them. But you know, so so I knew enough to.

Jason 6:17

You had to be the calm in the chaos, is what you're saying, I guess.

Melanie 6:20

It wasn't chaos, uh, but yeah, definitely.

Jason 6:22

I don't mean chaos isn't ridiculous.

Melanie 6:24

Chaos is really really good ideas, they just all had a different one.

Jason 6:29

I mean chaos is randomness, like chaos to be.

Melanie 6:31

Right.

Jason 6:32

We're talking randomness, so yeah, exactly to be.

Melanie 6:34

So um navigating through that was um always an interest of mine, and not surprised I ended up um between you and and my family.

Jason 6:45

She just looked at me.

Melanie 6:49

Recognizing it in my youngest child was not difficult.

Jason 6:53

Sure.

Melanie 6:53

Um, even though, again, with a girl, it's a little more hidden.

Jason 6:57

It is, you know.

Melanie 6:58

But she was definitely um wanting to know information. Yes, wanting to be there, wanting to pay attention, and and just but it's in a different way. Yes. I mean with boys not, you know, it was not like I'm trying to be defiant, it was compulsive and impossible, you know.

Jason 7:19

W with boys, a lot of times it's exhibited through physical behavior, you know, running around the stick hitting a tree and like screaming. And you go, and you well, I know they do, but I mean it's like, okay, what is this? You know, but girls sometimes it is a little bit more hidden in some of their antics. Um, oftentimes girls tend to be classified with the ones that um you don't know what's going on in their head.

Melanie 7:42

Daydreaming.

Jason 7:42

They're exactly why she's daydreaming. But but they're they're behaving in the classroom because they're not making the noise, they're hidden.

Melanie 7:50

But they certainly don't want to be caught.

Jason 7:53

They don't want to be caught, exactly. So, and it it it becomes undiagnosed oftentimes, but you know, it's probably 50-50, gender-based, I would say. Because you know, it's oh I agree with you on that. But yes, but anyway, keep going.

Melanie 8:09

So, um it is that moment with teachers and parents where okay, we got it. Child is listening, child is engaged, yep. The light up happens, oh yeah, things are clicking. Oh my god, I'm so excited, you know?

Jason 8:28

Oh yeah.

Melanie 8:29

And then later, as as a little time maybe goes through, yeah, something becomes more of a direct question. So you either ask the child directly or they're taking a test.

Jason 8:43

Right.

Melanie 8:44

And then what happened?

Jason 8:46

It's like, I feel like you're getting it.

Melanie 8:50

Right. It's like, were you paying attention at all? What was I confused by the fact that you seemed engaged and then all of a sudden it's gone?

Jason 8:59

Yeah.

Melanie 9:00

And so that's what we're really talking about here in in the reorganization of information is why does it look like it's lost information?

Jason 9:13

Sure.

Melanie 9:13

When clearly they were understanding at some point. Yeah. Um, and so I've had to um explain this one quite a bit. Sure.

Jason 9:23

With um when you know your child. Right.

Melanie 9:26

I no longer homeschool, um, they are or in school.

Jason 9:30

Yeah.

Melanie 9:30

And so when it comes to other teachers and things like that, you know, it's trying to re-explain the typically the first go-to, it's like she knows it. I see her know it. Yeah, and the teacher knows that, and they're telling me that it's like, the classwork is done, it's great, the homework gets done, it's great.

Jason 9:51

Maybe even participating in class, and you know, she was complete bomb.

Melanie 9:55

Yeah. What happened? Yeah. I don't get it. Why is this happening? And so the the first go-to is why is she not retaining information?

Jason 10:04

Well, that's the classic.

Melanie 10:06

Um you would think that, but so I'm always explaining that this is not how she performs on tests, it's not about following instructions, it's actually how she thinks.

Jason 10:20

Yeah.

Melanie 10:22

And so my best way of figuring out, and this is where we're getting into the meat of it, of the portrait brain, is the only way I can describe how it is she's thinking, because I'm been paying attention, is it does not collect the brain does not collect the facts in a list form. The brain is not sitting there with some sort of collection of facts.

Jason 10:47

Not a surprise area.

Melanie 10:49

It paints.

Jason 10:51

It paints, yeah.

Melanie 10:52

And so because it paints, now we've created a portrait. And so it is when I say that it is a portrait, if you think about every piece of information is a drop of of uh paint, right? She's using that paint and then she's creating the picture from that. And so it's a beautiful I see the analogy you're getting at uh way of uh to me a beautiful way of thinking. The only problem with that is it's often in in school settings, uh and in pretty much life settings, a lot of people, um it's often seen as she is not retaining factual information.

Jason 11:40

Right.

Melanie 11:41

Which is not true. She's actually, when it's when she's supposed to be recalling information, sure, she has now painted this huge portrait.

Jason 11:50

Yes.

Melanie 11:51

She sees the big picture, she sees the emotional attachment of every everything, and is connected it to other stuff too.

Jason 11:57

Has connected it.

Melanie 11:58

Um and so when you ask her the information, we're she's gotta figure out somehow to navigate through all of this paint and pull out one piece.

Jason 12:10

Yeah. I mean, it's almost like if the facts are the colors, you're asking for the blue, but the part of that blue is mixed with red to make the purple. Right. So how do you get that back? Right. How do you get that back without the story and kind of like this you know, experience of what it was, and outside of that, I just can't extract that piece. It's not sitting right there, it's mixed right here. But I can tell you the whole story, right?

Melanie 12:42

And I can recall it through a different process, maybe, but so the we we think of the traditional model of learning, yeah, you know, uh facts in, facts out, right?

Jason 12:54

Right.

Melanie 12:55

So they're defined, they're labeled, and easy to retrieve.

Jason 13:00

Sure.

Melanie 13:01

And that is traditional model of learning, and so those that can memorize and understand that the piece by piece definition label easy to retrieve, right? Um, obviously you're gonna do extremely well and when you're taking tests and things like that.

Jason 13:19

Right.

Melanie 13:20

Um, sure, it it is better when you know the content to the point of deeper. Um when you get into higher levels, uh, high school, college, you need to know deeper to know all of these need to apply, you know. So what is the best answer to the other? Yeah, best I was gonna say, yeah, the best answer to the other.

Jason 13:41

How many of these answers apply to you know, so you can isolate and what have you.

Melanie 13:46

Tests do change, but it is still really based off of the definition, the the labeled content, and how easy is it to retrieve. And unfortunately, with and not unfortunately, um to me, not unfortunately. Right, but in in these specific settings, the ADHD mine, these drops are not isolated.

Jason 14:12

Yeah, right.

Melanie 14:12

So because they blend, because they connect, um, they and because they form that portrait, sure. Then when you asked about something very specific in a very specific way, like a test question.

Jason 14:27

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. In isolation, yes.

Melanie 14:30

Right. It it becomes harder to recall. And so the first answer when you have that situation, we need to go backwards.

Jason 14:39

Oh, yeah. Let me know. We need to drill this.

Melanie 14:41

They're not retaining the information lost.

Jason 14:43

Let's go, yeah.

Melanie 14:44

So now we're gonna go backwards. We're gonna redo the information, yeah. Because maybe if it's clearer, they will retain retain it. And so typically that's the big thing. Teachers, uh parents, they're not retaining, they're not retaining, they're not retaining. And then they they're beating their heads against the wall because that retention is what they're looking for, but it's not the retention, it's the recall.

Jason 15:11

But from that student's perspective, and I can relate to some degree with this.

Melanie 15:17

I'm hoping you do.

Jason 15:19

We're now going back because say you were looking for that blue, so now we're doing another painting, or at least I'm gonna do another painting. Right. But now I'm disenfranchised because you didn't talk about my use of texture on the painting I made the first time. But now we need to go back and do it again. It's like I I'm ready to have this deeper conversation in a way you didn't expect.

Melanie 15:45

Right.

Jason 15:46

But here we go.

Melanie 15:48

And so now I'm having to look at the case.

Jason 15:49

Here's another blinking cursor canvas, right, and now I'm doing it again.

Melanie 15:56

Um one particular year, sh uh the my youngest child was put in in some more remedial classes.

Jason 16:10

Right. I yeah.

Melanie 16:11

Say my, I mean, it's ours, but our shop.

Jason 16:15

You had the one talking.

Melanie 16:16

But I was I was more, I guess, in that decision making.

Jason 16:21

And this had to do with like like diphthongs and stuff like that, or something. It was some language.

Melanie 16:25

So the so they were thinking she was just missing too much, right? Uh too many holes, and so they put her in some uh more remedial yes, and and she came to me and she's like, I don't understand. I already know the all of the these sounds. I I know how to read. I know what I'm you know, it's just like I know what I'm doing. I I don't get why we're we're going backwards, and then and so I was like, you know, um, not everybody understands it. And so a lot of times you're not able to show what you understand and what you know.

Jason 17:01

Yeah.

Melanie 17:01

Um, I know what you know, yep, yep. And so right now, just let them take you out of class and and do some some of this kind of stuff, just to give yourself a break.

Jason 17:16

Yeah. Sometimes that's important too.

Melanie 17:19

And she's like, minimize I said, Do you like the teacher and and the one-on-one? She said, Absolutely. Well, you're minimizing then take the break.

Jason 17:26

Yeah, you're minimizing stimuli too, which is another component that is.

Melanie 17:30

That was a difficult year with with more uh stimulation happening. Yeah, and so it was like, you know what? You get a few minutes of of break that learn relearning something you already know, so go ahead and take it. Take it as a win and go. Take it as a win and go.

Jason 17:44

For whatever that means, just go, yes, I know. Yep.

Melanie 17:48

So um, so again, it's it's that go-to response. Maybe she's not getting it. Yeah. And and so I've always had to kind of re-explain, she's not missing the information. She's actually not able to use it in the broader sense.

Jason 18:07

Sure.

Melanie 18:07

Because what she's doing is she's making the information something that is uh connected.

Jason 18:14

Yeah, it's all it is all connected, yeah. I mean, because it's kind of an aura. I mean, if you will, you know, it everything like we're talking about the painting, and I and I certainly understand the physical coming together on making a painting. But I mean, with it being an aura, it's it's it's kind of like an igneous rock. You know, when you go back that far. Well, you got quartz, you got felds bar. Right. It's all like peppered in there together, and um, they're all different pieces, but it's one unit. And I mean, honestly, you you you really um you you can't take this for granted.

Melanie 18:59

But oh yeah, I knew it but you're you knew something. My paws knew it was coming, yeah, of course.

Jason 19:07

I know, but but honestly, I mean it's there are parts that define a whole. We are always looking for the parts outside of everything, but it's not how everything works. Everything does connect to something else, is my point. Right. Either an emotional thing or either even contextual or cross-curricular. I mean, I I know all the terms. I've been in education for 14 years. I know how it all works, and we we forget. We say we want to teach students to in the way they are individually, but because of the system, we're forced to teach it as a class. Unless you have that teacher, and thankfully, you know, we've had some really good teachers.

Melanie 19:48

Oh, amazing.

Jason 19:49

That she has amazing teachers that can step back, and if you can step back, take that moment. Wait, this is so-and-so. Okay, well then let's do this, or have the ability to make modifications, and I when I also say that in the same breath of I know we have IPs and we have 504s and everything else that are there, that's paperwork. That's exhausting, and I know that, but just understanding where someone comes from and understanding that maybe if the test is the only way, maybe that's the problem.

Melanie 20:30

Well, in in the case of of the youngest child, that is, you know, and and that's always what I get um called in to discuss with other teachers with teachers, um, okay. Again, she knows the information. Right. She does well in class, she can repeat it back to me. And you know, she can study, yeah, that kind of thing. Why is it this doesn't work? Yeah, why is it every time she's taking a test, all of a sudden it's gone?

Jason 21:07

What's fragment?

Melanie 21:09

And and so explaining the fragmentation to to the teachers is always very eye-opening, and it's like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, I'm seeing this now. So that it's I mean it works in in this context because isolating something that is tiny, yeah, when you've already made this big story about it, and and he I do need to explain why do we know this?

Jason 21:36

Sure.

Melanie 21:36

Um it in homeschooling and when uh schooling, you know, obviously homework that is still schooling at home, yeah. Um, if you actually just close everything, close the book, turn the pages over, whatever, and say, explain this to me.

Jason 21:57

Tell me the story.

Melanie 22:00

On tell me the story. Tell me what Indian group and its outer and right.

Jason 22:06

Paint painting. All the time. Yeah, the picture gets in the phone. Yeah, the paint. Yeah, right, right.

Melanie 22:12

She'll start kind of um unsure.

Jason 22:15

Yep.

Melanie 22:15

She'll there are hesitation, but it's the hesitation, and then as she talks, the more she realizes, the more she knows.

Jason 22:22

Because it's all elusive.

Melanie 22:23

And then she's giving you the painting.

Jason 22:26

Exactly.

Melanie 22:26

And then once she gives you a piece of the page, once she has the painting, going to know everything.

Jason 22:32

Once you hold the painting in your mind, you can extract every little piece again. You can then, you know, like like backtrack.

Melanie 22:39

Right.

Jason 22:40

Recon um reverse engineer, if you will.

Melanie 22:43

Exactly.

Jason 22:44

Because you got you got it's an artifact that you've created. Like in a museum, but now you can reverse engineer because I I painted this, I now know this, and I now know this and all this. But we're talking about this here. We're not down the room in this other room. You you brought me here to now remember it.

Melanie 23:02

Right.

Jason 23:03

And that's that's weird.

Melanie 23:04

It it's weird, but it's cool.

Jason 23:06

It yeah. Yeah, I don't mean weird, it's like like strange. I mean I'm right there in it. I know.

Melanie 23:13

The information just becomes alive.

Jason 23:15

It does.

Melanie 23:16

And so it becomes alive, it becomes connected, it becomes um something outside of the bulleted points, something outside of the list, outside of the A, B, C, D, B choice, and it becomes something that is living.

Jason 23:30

Yeah.

Melanie 23:31

And when you watch that in action, it's it's very interesting, very cool, and then you you become a little disheartened when yes, bless her heart, she's you know, again taking the test and bombs of test.

Jason 23:47

Yeah.

Melanie 23:48

And so what we've been doing that's slightly different, um, is okay, you know, you're doing your work, you understand the information. If I close everything and I know that you're regurgitating this information to me, then I clearly understand you understand it.

Jason 24:08

Right, right. And then you pass it.

Melanie 24:09

And then it's just retelling that back to any teacher or anybody that's there, and it's like, I'm not asking you to stop the test.

Jason 24:19

Right.

Melanie 24:19

Because there's no way you can there's no way you can fight the whole system and stop this for one kid.

Jason 24:27

No more tests, no.

Melanie 24:28

Or, you know, for probably about 12 kids per a hundred.

Jason 24:33

Yeah.

Melanie 24:33

You know, but realize that the test doesn't mean anything to me.

Jason 24:40

Yeah.

Melanie 24:41

Because of when I realize what she knows, then I don't need to worry.

Jason 24:46

Okay, take that grade. We know what you know, but here we are forward, yeah.

Melanie 24:49

Here's the grades. Yeah. It's okay. Yep. And eventually you're gonna see, and eventually it's gonna be seen that she is making these amazing connections based off of that.

Jason 25:06

Sure.

Melanie 25:07

And the more she is able to do that, the more it's gonna be seen, and the more that is going to apply to her life.

Jason 25:15

Right.

Melanie 25:16

So, why does this matter for Wonderland Web? And so we're we're diving into just one kid, and it's not just one kid. This is this is a uh I I'm pretty sure, yeah, because I know a lot of different kids, um, um have had such a luxury of of being involved in their um friends in you know, uh community organizations and things like that, church, where there's so many kids out there.

Jason 25:46

Yep.

Melanie 25:47

Um, and again, growing up with it, learning you and you growing up with it, yeah. There is this labeling and this distraction and all of this uh lack of attention. So is this all what's what's the good point? What can we actually pull from this when it comes to something WinterNet Web understands, which is technology?

Jason 26:15

Yeah, true. And yeah, it all changes and evolves, and I I think recently we've seen how technology has improved in ways that are kind of getting rid of the needs of memorization and other things. So why and when can we maybe reorganize how we're teaching people to be ready for kind of what is already here?

Melanie 26:55

And that's where it is. It's already here. Yeah, technology can serve as executive function.

Jason 27:05

You can.

Melanie 27:11

And yeah, and not serve as executive function, help executive function. Well, it's if we understood the tool that we have at hand. And I think that's where we are trying to really paint this picture, huh? We did that on purpose, no, of if we are able to utilize technology to help with executive function, we're able to see the tools that are there, right? Then isn't the ADHD brain the wave of the future?

Jason 27:49

Well, I I guess in in the context of your like connected through different ways of thinking, then again with an aura. And if you embrace technology, maybe you understand perhaps or could really get the bigger picture of that. Um I mean technology certainly helps us immensely, and when I was younger, uh before the days of like a smartphone, but even years after having one, I I had a habit of putting index cards in my wallet. Uh blank ones and ones that were partly filled, and what I would do is sometimes I would always passively thinking about something, and then I would jot stuff down on the appropriate index card, folded and nasty in my wallet, but I could still, you know, find them. Yeah, you do. I do, and and when I needed it, it was there. But this was when you talk about executive function, one thing about executive function is able to, you know, do the task at hand as necessary, blah blah blah. Right. The problem is when you have too many firings that are happening and you want to focus on this one thing that could be talking to you right in front of you, but you're concurrently tackling three projects that are simmering on the stove burner, and it's always a matter of convincing yourself, how do I make that not important right now? Because you don't want to walk away from the stove. But how can I focus on what is right in front of me? That's taking a test. You're supposed to take everything away from your brain and go and focus on this. But wait, I I got stewed tomatoes in the back left corner, I got my entree in the um, you know, front left. I and I I got water that's still boiling, and I'm supposed to put pasta in it eventually, but the index cards is a way of jotting down something that I could then tuck away in my wallet, and I know it's there when I need it. Therefore, my frontal lobe doesn't need to keep it right there. The panic can go away. I don't need to worry about oh my god, I'm gonna forget this or whatever. I can pretty much like a save game file in a role-playing game. Alright, save it, done, move on. Uh it'll I'll come back to it. And technology, of course, now, I mean, it's ubiquitous. You know, I mean, you could start right drafting an email on Google and it saves it as a draft. Great, you don't need to worry about that. You can go back to it. I mean, technology is built for more information, chaotic information, and it's there to allow you to keep track of everything. I mean, take a look. I mean, there's so many tools out there that help with the executive function.

Melanie 30:51

And um So if the tech is the executive function, right, and the ADHD person is the creative uh creative mind. Yeah, but and connected mind. Connected, creative, uh all-encompassed version. Yeah, then again, isn't that exactly what is necessary in today's society to have the if if the AI is Google on steroids.

Jason 31:32

Yes, as we've said, yeah, it makes sense.

Melanie 31:34

Then what if ADHD is the human on steroids? Not actual steroids, but the human as the most human. So the the yes, sometimes we are often human. We are trying to function, we are trying to uh have our list, we're trying to do the right things.

Jason 31:54

We're all trying to do different things, yes. Yep.

Melanie 31:56

Pay our taxes, we're trying to do that at the right time in the month, yeah. Um, we're trying to you know make sure the light bill is is care taken care of, that sort of thing. So we're we're always trying to do our list task management, the task management of of our day, sure. And so if the AI and the computing take some of that task management and allows us to kind of put ourselves and and pull it from the frontal lobe, place it over here, and then it gives us the ability to go into the creative mind, go into the portrait.

Jason 32:40

Well, it it allows us to be there without the threat of I'm gonna be called out.

Melanie 32:45

Right.

Jason 32:46

You know, it's like I can play.

Melanie 32:48

Right.

Jason 32:49

Because I got my homework done.

Melanie 32:51

Yes.

Jason 32:52

You see what I'm getting at?

Melanie 32:53

Kind of like that.

Jason 32:54

So you're able to explore without the threat of certain things that I forgot this or whatever, uh, you know, creating an issue where now, oh no, I'm now I now mess this up. But I'm trying to do all these things at the same time. Yeah.

Melanie 33:14

Right. So and so the the modern world or or the world that we are are seeing that is shifting. So we're shifting from a traditional movement, a traditional system.

Jason 33:34

Right.

Melanie 33:34

We have you know recall, answers, and not just answers, fast answers. Um, I do remember there was um in early elementary timed test.

Jason 33:51

Oh, geez. Yeah, right.

Melanie 33:53

Yeah, the wonderful panel. It gave me heart palpitations just to have those time tests. Um, it's like that does not make sense. Um, and and isolated facts. So we have isolated facts, we have fast answers, we have clean recall. Those three things creating this uh traditional system, we need to make sure you're able to recall, we need to make sure you're able to do it fast, and then make sure you isolate those facts so that it comes up correctly on a test.

Jason 34:24

Right.

Melanie 34:27

Maybe in today's society, like what is that going to be when it comes to your career or your next step in adulthood when fast answers come from computing? Right. Um, the recall, clean recall will come from computing, and your isolated facts can come from computing. Yes, yes. So now is kind of what's able to be accessible. So in modern world terms, there's connection.

Jason 35:09

Of course. What there is creativity, like and all the soft skills the businesses want you to have.

Melanie 35:15

Storytelling, yeah, right, right and problem solving.

Jason 35:20

Yeah, exactly.

Melanie 35:21

So a a computer cannot problem solve. A computer cannot always tell the story in the way that the story needs to be told properly. And and the computer cannot make human connection.

Jason 35:34

No.

Melanie 35:35

And so that's where maybe, again, the ADHD brain.

Jason 35:40

Right.

Melanie 35:40

The brain that already gravitates this direction.

Jason 35:43

Yeah.

Melanie 35:44

That is not a computer, that does not compute in the same way, right? It cannot isolate facts in the same way. Then maybe that's why ADHD is becoming such a hyperdiagnosis. Um, so that did not actually do that one on purpose.

Jason 36:02

No, I know. That's funny.

Melanie 36:03

Um, but why it's more diagnosed? Why it's something that's you see more often.

Jason 36:08

Yep.

Melanie 36:08

Um, because it makes sense. Yeah. When when the computer can do the other things, it makes sense that you need creativity and connection.

Jason 36:18

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of makes you wonder like why recall is drilled in our heads so much. It's important that, you know, facts on a test for just the nature of the test, prove understanding. But as far as the bigger picture, the application, and I mean, we can get into the whole, you know, uh higher levels of learning and understanding and all of that, but um, you know, it's we're not tested for how the ideas obviously connect with us. It's all just pure fact. Because you can't really do that. You can't get to deeper dive of to what end have you taken this fact and have connected it with whatever else you know that could become useful. Because, you know, again, I mean, George Carlin said something that I'm not gonna say in the way he said it, but you nail two things together that have never been nailed together before, someone's gonna buy it. Right. So in innovation comes from finding uncommon connections.

Melanie 37:35

Right.

Jason 37:36

Testing comes from what did I give you that you can give me back? If I gave it to you, you can give it to me back. This that in itself is not innovation. It's the higher level process, it's the analysis, it's the synthesizing, it's you know, going higher in that echelon. It's very I know from the education system you want to teach to that level. It's very hard to get to that level. But when people are already functioning at that level, then it's hard to come back down to extract the pieces that they don't realize are important to you. You know? So that's just I don't know. It this is a very difficult thing, really, I guess, to manage because it it it's there's so many different angles.

Melanie 38:33

Well the brain brain is gonna be difficult to manage, but again, um so how do we manage it in today's society? Right, and and what if our management of it in the past isn't really what today is asking for?

Jason 38:50

True.

Melanie 38:52

And so when we need those tools for storage and for organization and for search, yeah, if we have those tools, we do, then maybe the management all comes in the tools that we already have. Right. So if we can put the some of the executive function on the outside, yeah, and we teach those as tools when it comes to um, okay, you all have a small computer in your pocket, yeah. You all have um, you know, sent home a computer. Um it most schools are one-to-one with computers and children. Um yeah.

Jason 39:36

Yeah.

Melanie 39:37

And so, okay, let's actually use this, let's learn this. Um, sometimes outside executive function is your, you know, you put note cards in your your wallet. Yeah. It's still outside executive function. It's executive function that you pulled out of the brain to put into your wallet. Sure. Um so nowadays you can do that more with with an app, with uh notes on your phone. Um, I I have so many notes, you know, that kind of thing. Um I don't have to worry about my grocery list being on the top of my head. My grocery list is actually in my phone. Yeah, and so that's a an important thing to let's utilize these tools.

Jason 40:21

Right.

Melanie 40:21

Let's figure these tools out, and then once we figure these tools out and that becomes a replacement of executive function, yeah, then maybe let's move away from A, B, C, D. Yeah, and let's move into the that bigger picture, that connectivity, right? That portrait.

Jason 40:42

Yeah, exactly. That's true.

Melanie 40:50

Because I've always the main thing I've noticed um when it comes to other children, uh, my own children, when it comes to that what's innate.

Jason 41:02

Right.

Melanie 41:03

And um I will have a lot of teachers that children have changed. There's a lot that has not changed about children.

Jason 41:12

No, not them specifically, maybe the dynamic that they're in.

Melanie 41:16

The the system changed a lot.

Jason 41:18

Yeah, sure.

Melanie 41:20

But curiosities still exist.

Jason 41:23

Oh, definitely.

Melanie 41:24

I have never actually talked to a child that was either within my family or outside of my family that did not have some sort of curiosity.

Jason 41:33

Yeah, what happens if I do that?

Melanie 41:34

When you listen, they start asking questions. And they really want to know the answer to questions. Of course. Yeah because curiosity is always there.

Jason 41:42

Curiosity is also connectivity.

Melanie 41:44

Exactly. And so whether it is a straight A student or a a C D student, yeah, that curiosity is is certainly always gonna be a part of their upbringing. That's gonna be a part of what they need to know. Yeah, and so we need to kind of um bow down to that, lean into that, and say, okay, if you're gonna be curious, then let me give you the cook tools when it comes to everything you're trying to hold. You know, it's like a holding a um when you've gone to the grocery store and you got a bunch of bags, and you are bound and determined to brag during all of those bags in at the same time.

Jason 42:33

Of course. My left arm, I don't need that anymore. As long as you get all the bags in it.

Melanie 42:38

You know, this is not gonna work, and you're probably gonna end up dropping the ham. But you're gonna do it anyway, and you're gonna take all of those bags and you're gonna try and pull it all in anyway. That's what's happening with the ADHD brain.

Jason 42:51

Yep.

Melanie 42:52

You told me that I need to know all of this information, that I need to have it forefronted, that I need to have it for the test, that I need all of this information, and now it's an overload.

Jason 43:03

Yep.

Melanie 43:05

But if we just allowed, okay, let's take some of that load. Let me teach you the tools. Let's put this load into a list form, let's put this load into something that you can use as an application. And then what do you want to learn? What is your curiosity gonna be? You know, and so when we drop all of those things, we put that away, we've stored it where it needed to be. Yep, and now we can access the celery whenever we need it. Sure. So, okay, great. It's all fit in its it it's all in its place.

Jason 43:43

Yep.

Melanie 43:45

So now what?

Jason 43:46

Exactly. Everything's put away now. What's the task at hand? What do we want to make? Yeah, what do you want to make for supper? Right.

Melanie 43:54

With all of these random ingredients.

Jason 43:57

That's true. It everything is in its place. Now you're only drawing upon what is necessary, not what you're carrying in presently. So you're minimizing what you're drawing from, because I guess from an executive function standpoint, you have now you're able to move forward with something creative because you're not bogged down by you know what you brought in.

Melanie 44:26

Right. All of these these facts that you're now trying to hold.

Jason 44:30

What does all this mean right now when I'm trying to, you know, just right.

Melanie 44:33

And so it does it for many uh children, adults, very much adults, adults do not have this problem. It do I really need to hold it all at once? True, you know, and so we have made a so we don't have to hold it all at once. That's great. And so, you know, your mind is not supposed to be a file cabinet.

Jason 44:57

No, not not now. I mean, but and I think back at a store uh stories that in situations where, again, like my index cards, that was my filing cabinet. But I had to put it somewhere to be able to think.

Melanie 45:12

Well, and we we come from a uh older um multi-generational uh area. Yeah, and I have ledgers of diaries of of my great-great-grandparents, right? Where they had to actually take the filing cabinet that was stuck in their head and they had to put it down on so-and-so owes this on this, blah blah blah, if you will. And so it's it's fascinating to read those ledgers and that kind of thing, but um even then we knew we were not filing cabinets. Yeah, we actually had to put the information somewhere to not have to file everything.

Jason 45:49

True.

Melanie 45:49

And so if we're not file cabinets, then maybe we're meant to be canvases.

Jason 45:56

Yeah, it's all together.

Melanie 45:58

Then maybe we're meant to be the painting. Maybe that is where not ADHD is the problem or the diagnosis, but maybe that's where ADHD shines. Find me everywhere, every place I can put this file information, yeah. And then let me shine. Because I I know it in such a way that it's so cool to me, and I can't wait for you to see it the way that I see it.

Jason 46:30

And what can I do with it?

Melanie 46:31

And then what do I do with it?

Jason 46:32

That may be entirely new.

Melanie 46:34

Right.

Jason 46:35

Yeah. Well, well, I mean Yeah, and well, we're certainly going to be talking about this topic a lot more again. This is first in the series, and we'll we'll kind of come and go in what we discuss. But this is certainly, again, something that I guess we have seen. You know, you have ADHD mind, you have the continuing growth of technology, how we're seeing the two come together, and it's kind of things are making sense in possibilities. Maybe this is and also a misunderstanding. And but yeah, so I think that's kind of where we're gonna leave this episode, and um again, thanking you all for your support and everything. Um we're going to as always place this on our website. This will become also a apoticle if you're following that, I guess, innovation that we have put together, where sometimes you're not in the position to be able to listen to an entire podcast, but you want the gist of it. You want the too long didn't read version.

Melanie 48:00

Too long didn't read version. I love that.

Jason 48:02

But you know, something you can you can browse and get the gist of it, but also understand, okay, now that I read the book, the short book, I want to watch the play. I want the experience, I want the conversation, I want, you know, kind of like what went down the aura of those that were talking about it. So, you know, please share this podcast with your friends and follow, you know, leave a review. All of that will help us to continue to get more out to you. And again, we couldn't do this without your support. So, with all that said, unplugging for now.

Melanie 48:36

Always take connected.