Online filtering, Gaslighting and other ramblings

OK folks, Ang is online dating now and we talk about a LOT of universal relationship concepts. When we knows we are a 'no' we have to let a suitor down. Why are we so hard-wired not to tell people the truth if it is a negative message? Also, gaslighting - why it is so damaging. Do you have a comment for us? Please send us your thoughts. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:04

Yeah, so what we're just talking about, listeners, is how when we are trying to be authentic and honest and open with people, uh we exp there's my dog scratching her head. The sound of a dog she's still scratching. She's on like 800th scratch. Um when we are authentic and honest and open with people, and having to say things like, thank you, but no, thank you. It was nice getting to know you. I think I'm gonna pursue getting to know someone else, and how the stress response in your the physiological stress response. You cannot avoid that.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Yeah, yeah. I I love that you said that. I've been thinking about this a lot because yeah, sure, you can say, Well, we're in the dating game and everybody knows how things are played. Sure, we do, and cognitively that's a reality. But if we have any empathy at all, like unless we're just cold-hearted bitches, um, we're gonna have a stress response of some kind, whether it's related to not wanting to hurt another person or feeling like when we've had to say no in the past, we've been rejected.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Um I don't know. I feel like you gave me an extra look when you said cold-hearted bitches. I I mean no, yeah, I think it's like our logic says, look, better to nip this in the bud. He'd rather know that you're not interested now. It's a hard message to send. That's all of logic. But I and I don't know if if part of it we can explore this, because I feel like I'm inter interjecting and you have more to say, is just that wire wiring to make sure we're accommodating and pleasing and getting approval from people. And the moment we say to them, hey, I'm not I'm not interested in you anymore, we feel like we've somehow done something wrong.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah. Okay, now I'm gonna try and articulate this. This is new new thoughts, so we'll see how this goes. Okay. I was listening to this uh webinar by this guy. I gotta throw in a spiritual teacher quotes of mine, um, who was talking about um the ego and how um we begin with some kind of experience. It could be pre-verbal, and then that experience turns into a belief, and then that belief um turns into it can turn into like physical symptoms, and then if we act on that belief, if we behave from that belief, then it um strengthens that belief. Um like a snowball effect. Yeah, and so totally. And so I'm just wondering, though, so if I let me talk this through. So if I have to say to somebody, um, you know what, I I don't think this is, you know, it's really nice getting to know you, which is the truth, but I I don't think this can go any further. I'm not acting from that belief, but this is what I wanted to say. You said to me earlier before we turned on the mics, those somatic feelings, those somatics, feelings, those somatics and feelings are the same thing, those experiences that you have, you have to work through those. So the idea that this guy was talking about was that if you ignored them, those sensations, or you uh distracted them. Or avoid them, avoid it, distracted, blah blah blah, then it gets pushed underground into your subconscious, and then that is what strengthens the ego, which I hate. Absolutely. But anyway, but so I think the awareness of oh my god, my heart is pounding right now. And maybe it's because it's hard for me to say no to a person. Maybe it doesn't even matter why. Maybe like maybe you don't I don't think it does.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, you just go, oh wow, that's like little things from I no, I completely agree with you. And um when you've been wired to like, oh, I need to be lovable, I need to be lovable. Yeah. Do they love me? Do they love me? Am I getting enough love? Am I getting enough love to actually hold up the hand and go, oh, I don't actually want your love, just goes against all the wiring.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And the other thing I was thinking, like, like even the littlest things, like uh things like uh being able to say to your partner, hey, your breath smells. Can you brush your teeth? Like, I've never been able to do just the little you've got to look at your stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

I'm like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I know I don't know if I can ever say that. I know. I know. Yeah. I I did actually, I did manage in the last year or so, like, hey, um, do you mind brushing your teeth? And I remember uh obviously it's Jim. I have the he's the only guy that's been in my past, but he laughed. He's like, you know, he was glad I said something.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Because usually I just sort of try and turn my head and get my nose in it. Sometimes I'll put my hand up to actually create a barrier so the air is, you know, like this is like you're in bed in the morning, you know, just hanging out. Like it's not, yeah. But but this funny, all those funny little things, like, hey, and and then yeah, the imagine saying, I don't actually want you want me and I don't want you. Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

That is yeah, because if we think about oh god, I don't want to go back to childhood, but we'll just say that's here's an imaginary childhood of somebody that somebody could have had where maybe their mother was hot and cold. And so when they the mother was warm, they took the love. They never wanted to miss a chance to get the love. Absolutely. Missing a chance, even if it's somebody that they, you know, are thinking, ah, I don't, I don't think this is gonna work. But yeah, it's okay. Yeah. And this is not, these are not real stories, by the way, from my dating experience, just in case anybody's listening. But I'm just these are just things that have come up in my mind thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And I think, I mean, all mothers are not always, you know, hot and cold. Like hot and cold is those are more extremes, but all mothers are not available all the time. Yeah, you know, for sure. And uh I think if you um if you expand it to like we learn to get what we need, we need to we learn to get the love we need. And I like what you're saying, let's not make this into childhood.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

But the problem is from the childhood.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

How do we learn love? By being born and loved. Yeah. And and and however our parents do it and they are doing their best, I am convinced of that. Even the ones who, you know, are broken. Yeah, you know. For sure. Um but we still have to, especially older single people, I think more than anyone else. I think in our 20s and 30s, we are kind of clueless, we're kind of following our impulses more, our attractions, and we're kind of falling into relationships. Yeah, yeah. But I think this conscientiousness that we seem to develop in our older, later years. Should we choose to should we choose to? And also because we're not looking to make children or buy houses or invest or you know, we're just wanting. We're not moving through IBF and have triplets. Oh, you'll be like the Carmen Diaz. Cameron. Cameron Diaz. No, by the way. She just said she has to live till 102 because she just she just had a baby at like 51 or something like that. 52. Yeah, yeah, I think she did was to think it was forget.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah, no, I'm joking.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Oh, so by the way, hello everybody. Oh, Angela is Angela did decide to start dating online and she has probably the three-week anniversary of opening the Hinge profile. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Let's drink to, I don't know. Um, but but what I realized I put on my profile, and I realized it was wrong, was I said, don't have children. Open to children. But what I meant was if you have children, I'm not against it. But I realized there was a um a possibility for me to say, don't have children, don't want children. So people people I don't yeah, to me, neither of them are accurate.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Well, I've thought about that because I think we were sort of hesitating and deciding whether you what you should put there. And I'd be really curious because like, how do people interpret that? Like, so what the this is on a dating app where you put whether you have children or not, or whether you want children or not. And obviously, if you're 30, that very much makes sense. But when you're in your 50s and you're, you know, you you're well, there's obviously going to be a lot of guys out there with children. So you don't want to say, No, I don't want anything to do with you and your kids. Like it's so to me, it's kind of messed up a bit.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

But well, one thing I wanted to tell you, you know how I put the I love cats, I love cats, I love cats. Yes. And you were like, Oh, you really want to put that? Well, there's been several people who have said, um, how many cats do you have?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Okay, so let me the okay, so I wanna, I wanna um I wanna unpack this and so here we go, listeners. This Angela's on a dating app with prompts. And the some of the questions are, you know, they have all these different questions like first date and you know, what I'm doing on the weekend.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

And I think it was at the key to my heart is something like if we agree on this, we've got something we agree on these three, any of these three things. Do we agree? Do we match on any of these things?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, so it was like three points, and Angela put, I love cats, I love cats, I love cats, which is like pretty cat lady-ish. Like honestly.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

It's full-on cat ladyish.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

It's full on cat lady-ish. And it was partly in response because when we were going through other the men's profiles. Okay, men, if you're online dating, let us tell you what not to put on your profile. Quit putting pictures of you with your dogs. Like, seriously. Like, I mean this kindly. Like, love your dog, mention your dog, have a dog. But these pictures with dogs, I just they turn me off. And I love dogs. I have a dog. But I I I just I feel like they're um they're either saying, like, you don't come between me and my dog. Not that they mean to be saying that, or they're they're trying to make themselves look like a better person than they are. Like, I just don't like the dog pictures. Anyway, that's why you put it up.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Okay. Well, but here's another thing. Okay, no, no. So I don't mind dog pictures if it's not the first picture.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

I mean, how do I do that? And as his arm isn't around the dog. Like, I just hate that arm around the dog picture. The guy's already always like down. Like, I just okay, I know I'm being mean and I'm I'm worried that Angela's gonna have some.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

I'm not sure it totally represents my opinion about dog pictures. I think that I wanted to say, I love cats, I love cats, I love cats, not because I wanted to um somehow like one up the guys with their arguments. No, for sure. It was more because I thought I really love my cat, and I should probably weed out people that don't like cats. That's what I thought. This is like I thought this is wow, this is authentic. It might sound like um I'm a crazed uh cat lady, but um it's me being me, and maybe it was too early. No, but I just psyched to throw it because I was just being silly that night. I wasn't overthinking what picture I said, I was overthinking what I said. I was just like, ah, I love cats, and I'm just telling you people wanted to confirm how many cats.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Well, and this is this is the thing. If you know Angela, like I so knew her humor, and I knew exactly what you meant, Angela. You were like, and I wish I could be your tone of voice. Like the first point would be, I love cats. And the second would be, I love cats. And the third, like it was just funny. And knowing your humor, I totally understood the humor, but I was thinking there are guys out there that would be like, whoa, arm's length, back away slowly. But that's okay. You don't want those guys. Yeah, come on.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

So if you can't take seven cats in a one-room apartment, no one does not.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

And honestly, I have dated guys with dog pictures, like because I don't believe in and you have a dog. I don't I don't judge the dog pictures in lines of like if if I'm getting a vibe and and chatting. I mean, it's been a long time since I've online dated. I'm not doing it right now. So I just want to make that clear. But I do think that men, men don't recognize what women are interested in seeing in in their profiles. To me, what I want to see is what do you look like? How are you dressing? You know, kind of shape and size in general. Um I don't need to see pictures of you with dogs or and and sport cars. A lot of guys put their vehicles in the profiles too. And I think it's like those are things that are important to them. And I think that is, I know I'm generalizing, but that's kind of how the male brain works.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

It really shows you like how different we are.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Yeah you know, but women never put pictures of their cars up, and women never put pictures. Well, I don't know if you put, did you put a picture? Let's put a picture of Sal, your cat.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

But I'm gonna be kissing him on the lips, I think. We did that yesterday. Um my god. Uh no. I mean, honestly, people are doing the best that they can. And I did notice that there were a lot of men where part of their heads were cut off. And and had I had you not been helping me, I would have put a picture like that where my head was cut off.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Align it directly in the face. Um and what else do I have to say about that? Because I feel kind of mean a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Oh, I don't mean yeah, I I just I mean this very, very compassionately. I think it's a lot harder in general for men to compile photos. I also know that you know, even myself these days, it's not that often you necessarily, when you're single, you take a lot of pictures of yourself. Yeah. And so then, like finding a picture that looks like you having fun in an authentic moment and not, you know, like for me, I have a lot of pictures like that with other people, you know. So it is profiles are hard.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

I go, uh, it doesn't matter if they're they look incredible. Yeah. Just like X.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Interesting. So I don't, I don't actually, and and even the I'll I'll jokes aside after the dog stuff. I actually don't X any of that stuff. I I I but I but I've I now have something to filter because well, Jim, Jim used to send me selfies of him when he goes. And he had one well, he had one on his profile. I think it's a very common thing. Guys, like there's a mirror, they're working out, they're feeling good. And so I do try to have compassion for for that because the compassionate messages, I think, for a lot of people, especially the right kind of people, they don't have photos like on their phones and they don't, you know, they don't know what to put up there and what the best things are. And they don't have they don't have a friend. I actually know there, I think there are services that help you create profiles. So some people do that. And then, of course, if you I think I've known men that had a female friend help them, which I highly advise male listeners out there. Well have a girl check out your profile that you know and um I discovered something that I that I realized is sexy to me.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

This is I just discovered this today. I realized. Sorry, I'm gonna share. I find it sexy when a guy does not flirt right away.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Hmm, absolutely. He's being a gentleman for sure.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, and that like that respectful burn thing and the respect because and I didn't realize that because I haven't dated I've never had this kind of meet and greedy daty thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

It's a ride, isn't it? It and it's easy to get swept away.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Wow, and um, so I'm noticing things about myself, like okay, I don't actually want somebody to tell me, oh my god, you're amazing, blah, blah, blah because I it comes across as an authentic or intimacy intimacy too soon. Hey, but I'm not saying I don't like to be complimented.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

I just mean like compliments and flirt, yeah, are two different things. First of all, uh if a person is liking your photo, that's already the compliment.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

And then the chit chat, like even in the chit chat, like, gee, you look really beautiful in your photos, that's not flirting to me necessarily. It's the flirt is more like, um, can I get a close-up of that? You know, like, I don't know, some kind of a comment about what I have one guy, like I well, this might seem cheesy to you, but I um I had a profile where I had recently gone swimming in a mountain lake. And so when I'm out hiking, I will like, you know, just strip down to my underwear and go for a swim. And I don't know if you, you know, sports, you you know sports bras, like they're they cover more than a bikini, you know. And so I remember putting a picture of myself with the uh, you know, swimming in the w lake. It was kind of a blurry picture, but it was my way of saying this is who I am. I like to do fun things like this. And I remember some guy was like, I tried to zoom in to see if you had a bathing suit on or something like that. And I was just like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

I I don't think I could do it for very like I was thinking, you know, I think I said I'm gonna do this for one month and who knows where it will go. It might go somewhere really nice with somebody, or or it might not, but either way, either way. Well, if it goes really well, obviously in a month, I would hope that I wouldn't be on the app. I don't know how these things work. The point is after a month, I'm gonna be off the app.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yes, yeah, because it's and you'll regroup. I I think that's a really good idea that no matter what happens, yeah, that you you step away and you give your especially like in a you're gonna be very, very busy soon.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

And so just giving yourself a little mental space for a while to focus on going back to work full time and you know, and then see how you feel, like when you're as busy as you are. What are you looking for? Yeah. And you may be like, so give us the report. So you how many people have you met?

SPEAKER_02 19:37

I've met four people, but I've chatted, including those four people with maybe eight.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Cool. And of the four, you have weeded out all but one, correct?

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Correct. I've met four people, chatted with eight. Um, going on a third day tonight. Um, have fun. And I get to buy some new clothing.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I love it.

unknown 20:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Um, so a couple things. First of all, welcome to the podcast. This is how do you do love with Mag and Ange? I'm Mag, also known as Margaret Dahlberg, and I'm Angela, also known as Margaret Dahlberg's friend. Yes, that's how we all talk about you. Yeah. Margaret Dahlberg's friend. Um, Angela Cavar is your name. And it's my given name. Is your given name?

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Um can we talk about my name though? Because we do it every podcast. So I I want it to be a thing. Okay. So it was my given name, however. Why did your parents name you Angela? Oh, because sorry. Because my mom said, you know why I'm laughing. My mom said that she had a friend named Angela who was really funny, had a great sense of humor, and she wanted me to have a great sense of humor. Which sometimes What happened there? Exactly. Exactly. That's what we're all asking ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Oh no, I think she was right. Uh that's a perfect name for you. Um, okay, a couple things I don't want to forget. One thing I don't want to forget. Okay, I just need to make this disclaimer. I'm not sexually numb. But but but I liked that segment so much I wanted to keep it in there. But I I I just I was just had a bad, I have a bad attitude about relationships right now. Um so that's my first disclaimer. Um, and then the other thing was, Angela, you sent me a um uh video that I realized I still haven't watched, but we wanted to talk about gaslighting. Oh because you told me, like you sent me something and you said that gaslighting isn't what you'd always thought it was. And okay. Gaslighting to me is when you tell someone their feeling or you know, you do you tell someone something that they are not, or like if someone says, Did you hear that noise? And you say, No, there was what do you mean? There was no noise there.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

But if someone says, like, um, say, my my friend was being really unpleasant to me, did you hear what they said? And then the partner says, No, they weren't. That was you were just taking you were taking it too personally or something like that. That's gaslighting. That's gaslighting. I mean, it depends what the context.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

The context. Um oh, yeah. And I think you can feel it when you're being gaslit. Yeah. Um, but it does come from that play. Um movie gas gas. Yeah, I saw the play. I saw the play. Yeah, you saw the play, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I remember, and I didn't know much about gaslighting, but I do have an experience I can talk about. I was having a very challenging conversation with someone where we had a big difference of opinion. And like I was trying to have a productive conversation about the fact that we were just so different. And I was trying to get this person to kind of see my side of things. And I remember they said to me, Margaret, you just are not happy. You're just not happy. There's a lot going on in your life. And I remember as they said that to me, I I started to feel really bad about myself. And I was like, they're right. But there was also a little voice in the back of my head going, What? What are they talking about? This isn't true. And yet they were a good friend. I completely succumbed to what they were saying. And then I remember, you know, we hung up after, you know, we sorted, I don't know if we, I don't know how much we resolved, but we got, you know, past it in some way, shape, or form. And afterwards, I just remembered feeling so gross. Cause I was like, what are they talking about? Like, I actually feel like, sure, I've got some challenging things in my life that I don't feel good at about in time at times. And I turn to them for support. But I feel like my day-to-day life and interactions with people is coming from a place of happiness, contentment, whatever you want to call it. And so that to me was profound gaslighting. Yeah. Like major, major. And I remember how awful it felt.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

And also, what goes along with that is um, and maybe it's one and the same, is somebody who would say that to you, you're just not somebody with a lack of a certain kind of intelligence, emotional intelligence, sensitivity. Like anybody, that would never be a there's never a time where that would be an okay thing to say to anybody. Yes. So just take that. Don't even it doesn't even matter, label it what you will. Yeah. That is not a a kind or helpful thing to say. For sure. Or not have like tell somebody what their experience is and blah.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, but that is gasless. You just actually you just summed it up. When you tell someone what their experience is, it is.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

When you think it's your place to tell someone what their experience is, unless you're reframing what they've just said to you or reflecting. Yeah, you know. And of course, like they could have said, Margaret, I look at you and I worry that maybe you're not happy. But it was, I just remember it just felt so weird. Anyway, so gaslighting. So that was something we talked about talking about. So um I've certainly had many moments where I've been gaslit by my partner when I'm sharing with them my, you know, my upset, my concerns, and they're telling me it was my imagination or it wasn't how that what I'm seeing is not how it is, or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

But there's a fine line, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Well, I think this is where your upbringing has it comes into play because if you were, and I think it's hard. I think maybe people are raising um children more so now to develop the sense of trusting their own instinct. But if you grew up not having that developed, which is not because the parents were horrible, but that's just not what we did, then you are more vul more vulnerable to that because a person can see we know so much without and it's not because they're a narcissist and they have special gifts to see. But we just uh we see what what other people are capable of, how we can manipulate people in good and bad ways, and manipulate isn't an always always a bad thing, like it's a has a bad rap, that word, but how we can um how we can influence them. Manipulate is a bad word. We can see how we can influence somebody. So if there's somebody that grew up not totally trusting their gut, then that other that person can easily get in there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

They're vulnerable to that that uncertainty, and then you can you can kind of see that as you're in.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah. I've seen that in in action in so many ways.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Probably been more on the gaslighting side than the gaslight lit side. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

You know the gaslighter.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

I think probably, like not by consciousness. I mean, or by choice.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

It's unconscious.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I remember when um my son was younger and he like he was the one who started when I became privy to the term gaslighting, because he would accuse me of gaslighting, and I'd be like, I'm not even sure what that is. And I remembered looking it up and realizing that I wasn't gaslighting him.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

But because he was so insecure about where he was at the time, yeah, he felt like I couldn't even share my perspective in a with the proper language. Yeah. So if you go back to that conversation with the person I was telling you about, if I said to him, I am worried that you're not very happy right now, he would then take that as gaslighting. You're telling me I'm not happy.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I it's I I don't know if all of these tur this terminology that's come about, this psychological terminology is helpful. It almost I think just go back to like um You're putting words in my mouth. Yeah, yeah. The old old-fashioned that's not true. You know, like you you're not being kind and you're not being sensitive.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yeah, and you're not giving me it granting me autonomy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Whether we have to call it gas lighting or whatever. Because then it's I don't know. We we end up putting people in these groups and these clumps, and and then and then everyone points. Yeah. Gaslighting! Gaslighting! Narcissist! Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So I don't know. I want us to go back to the old fashioned. If you have something nice to say, yeah. Or if you need to say something that's not nice, really think of a way that it doesn't destroy, you don't have to destroy somebody to be truthful. Maybe you do sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Which is in general, it's interesting. A nice circle back. Like you kind of circled back to how we first started. Like if you have something to say something to someone. And I and I think it's so good when you have something to share with someone to share that it's hard to share. That's really good too. Like, I'm really uncomfortable saying this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

You know, without I feel like an ass. Maybe without making it seem like they have to comfort you for exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

I'm a terrible person. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Please forgive me. I'm awful. But um, yeah. Oh, yeah. Go.

unknown 30:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Well, early on in the in the um online chit chats, there was a guy that I was chit-chatting with, and he was quite a bit younger, and I was like, this is probably silly. But we had some nice chats, and um that I didn't hear from for for a while, and I was like, that's fine. He's probably found somebody more age appropriate. Um but then I got this text from him saying, Hey, it was really nice to get to know you. You seem like an awesome person, and I've I've found somebody off the app that I'm pursuing, but but I hope you have a great summer. I was like, wow, that is so much about it. I was like, phew.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Well, and and that was a terrible. Did you hear my laugh? That sounded very disingenuous. Well, what I love is like um, and and the experiences you've had where you have said to people, I'm gonna pursue getting to know someone else. People are being like the it seems like the good ones are like, well, I'm disappointed. And you know, if you change your mind, let me know. Like, yeah, because I think it's their way of saying, like, you're worth pursuing to me, and I'm I'm not in a hurry. And that's kind of what we want to hear a little bit, I think.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Well, it's a very um mature, uh and realistic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if somebody was like, oh, geez, have a nice life or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But I said to the guy that that that let me down easily, I said, Wow, what a thoughtful text. You have a great summer too. Nice. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Well, you're you're having fun.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Yeah, no, I'm having fun and I'm whoa, learning about myself, and I'm learning about what I enjoy, what I I think I need as like baseline things, humor, yes, um, mutual interest in music, yes, and attraction. Yes, yeah. I don't want to if I'm not attracted to somebody, I know people argue against this. This is okay. I want I want people to talk to to to phone in about this. Phone the line. We're turning on our lines, our lines are okay. I press the button. Do you think that if a m man is really nice and funny, maybe would you all the things, but you don't find them attractive, should you go on more dates with them? That's what people have told me.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

And when or when? Like how many dates do you go on before you say no?

SPEAKER_02 32:48

And I have said, self, I've said, I've said, don't go on any more dates because I've just decided to go with my instinct.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

I think you're smart. I think you're right. Like I need to feel a zing. That zing, like that attraction is should needs to be there. And I I feel like if you know you're not attracted to them, and this is the question you're asking is at what point uh do you know? I think you know right away. I think there are a lot of people who'd say you know right away. But there is um apparently a book out there, The Haystack or The Needle in the Haystack, that says you need to give it three dates before you draw that conclusion. I don't know. I'd be curious.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

I'm not talking about like I, oh my God, like I'm just gonna start. No, it's a zing. It's a zing. Like a that's me purring. A little purr. Can it be a zing? You don't like my term zing?

SPEAKER_00 33:49

You want to. Yeah, yeah. It's it's some, it's a little energetic. It's energetic, an energetic boost of some sort in our physical selves. On the chakras. Yeah, when we are connecting with someone. And um I do feel like I mean I've their body's wisdom.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

I've been privy, you know, I I've been privy to my own zings my whole life. And it's either there or it's not.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

You know, and and so yeah, my question would be is if you clearly don't feel attracted to them, then why are you like what is it you're wanting from them? Because to me, that just feels I don't know. I feel like you're setting yourself up for an unhappy relationship.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

You can feel a zing and also not have anything in common, and which case you have to use your discernment, which is yes, sounds a nice thing, but no, this is we have nothing in common.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, because you need the unity of the you need to unite left, right brain, animal, lizard brain, and logic. Like you have to, everything has to align. Well, that's called presence, right? I mean, I think it does for me now. Maybe it didn't no, me neither. No, like the the because it can become a drug. Like if you if you I remember this, like you feel the zing, yeah, and then so every time you see their name pop up in the text, you zing.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

And then so you answer them right back, zing, and the zing gets bigger, and then they answer you back, zing, zing, and the next thing you know, you're completely immersed in this this cloud of excitement and attraction, yeah, and you just keep feeding that, yeah, and you're not necessarily thinking straight, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Like, and um but you you okay, let me just say this no matter how much work you have put in the body, we we are animals, and where we can have awareness around it, but those feelings, those zings, those brz are so basic and primary. They are, yeah. They're just like, whoa, okidokie.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

I love it. Yeah, because and we do need both. We need to, we need the C V. So you got the humor part, they're funny. What else? Um, like music, enjoy music. Right, the music thing, intelligent, somebody intelligent, intelligent, uh, conversationalist, like all that stuff. Kind. Yeah, definitely kind.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Oh my god, sorry, that's a number one.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Oh, here's a funny story, listeners. So Angela's met four people, and I know two of them. Like personally from my my past career stuff. Is that not if anybody's online dated, you'll know. Like, it's a big, there's a big pool to choose from. And the fact that of the first, they were actually from the first three, yeah, I knew two of them.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

And that that was like crazy. God. Yeah. Please don't know any of these people. Yeah, it changed things when you learned that I knew them.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

It did. It made me more open to meeting them for some reason. Um But you know what? That first date was really difficult for me. And then the second one, I just you're meet and greet. By date you mean meet and greet. Yeah. I felt so much. I just felt, okay. I mean, I want to have fun, you know?

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Yeah. Um what we noticed, Angela and I, in talking about this, is the neat thing, it was kind of like you got to wear your um your little water wings with your first one because Margaret knew this person. Right. So he's gonna be on good behavior and she's gonna be, and not well enough. Like I'm not in touch with these people at all. I've I've crossed paths with them over a few years' time because of commonalities. And uh so well enough to know they care about their reputation, they're not gonna be jerks to you, right? But not well enough that I'm call like we're calling each other up, going, so how was it? You know?

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yeah, yeah. Actually, it was the first two meet and greets that I felt super nervous for. Maybe the third one was I wasn't nervous because as soon as I saw the person, I just had a little sense of um ease. Yeah, neat. Yeah, I don't know. But even just talking about this, I'm getting a little bit of this anxious feeling it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Is it uh anxious about you shouldn't be talking about this out loud? Or is it about you want it certain things to go a certain way and you're scared they will or won't?

SPEAKER_02 38:42

No, I think it's just well, I don't know if I need to know. It's probably it's probably though, because well, if I go by what I said at the beginning where the guy, the spiritual teacher says something happens and then there's a belief system, and then there's a somatic um response. So I I always think that it's the somatic response that comes first, but I think the belief system is I need to be perfect in order for somebody to remain interested in me. And so when I'm first starting to go out with them, I mean it took a whole while longer to get myself gussied up. But I do um I feel like there's a bit of extra anxiety because yeah. I there's a lot of there's pressure. Yeah, there's a bit of pressure. Not from and not external, no, just internally.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah, it's it's learned be it's that learned behavior, that pressure that, oh, I better I better be good enough. Yeah. Yeah. I've loved observing this because I feel like I've learned so much observing you, and it does make me feel like I could go online dating again, and that maybe there is hope for me to meet someone someday, but I sure don't want to right now. Like I'm just so not not now. So, what is it that you've observed that has made you feel that maybe you could do it again? I think watching you be so discerning, but also like, yeah, like well, we were just saying today, so I feel like a lot of my life I was I was kind of more of an instant gratification kind of person.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

And that over the years I've become more present to um being okay in that middle ground song from my show. But like even hiking, like when I was younger, as soon as I'd start breathing heavy, I felt wrong and I'd get freaked out and scared, and I'd feel like I couldn't exist in that hard work stage. So the fact that I can hike for long periods of time and be breathing heavy, and the fact that I'm gardening now and I'm like learning, like recognizing or or dealing with my my kids and the things they're they're challenged by and recognizing that nothing has to be fixed tomorrow. Like yeah. And so I I think that um what I think that's what I see. I think you're you're different than I have been in the past. You are seeing the investment and the and the time, it well, not the time, but the investment of of taking time and getting to know. And like you don't seem to be, you you don't seem to be either freaked out or manic or like in a crazy place of oh, I'm serving so fun and I'm eating it.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Like, no, I mean I think there are times when I'm like, whoa, I gotta take a step back. Um, like when I was talking to multiple people, that was a little bit stressful. That felt like a little bit worse to me, yeah. To be honest. I've been there, yeah. And I don't find that particularly exciting. I find it stressful. Yeah, yeah. I need a snap break. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Anyway, uh, so we have a comment. This is AJ from Michigan. Uh, lots of good topics covered. I think your closing thoughts on love bombing are right on that we are all that person and want that to be our life story. Also, we are always growing and changing, is such a truth. And even in a committed relationship, the needs of any, every person constantly evolve.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Okay. I that last comment is what grabs me because we've been talking about being single, and then you last and I think we said uh in the last episode married people, how what is you know, what is your take on on all of the things that we talked about? So, yeah, we can't assume and I'm sure you don't, Margaret, but once people get married, that then they're still gonna have a lot of challenges, uh different ones, very different, but maybe we may not have covered them, or maybe we have. Maybe a lot of the things we've talked about are exactly the same for married people. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Are you what is what you're saying that you know when when people are f first meet and are are are getting to know each other and getting married, they have this commonality and this common goal that that that you know creates a sense of congruency and compatibility. And I think in long term committed relationships, interests evolve and shift and change. And so, you know, I think that's the hard part is that you know someone will grow in a different way than the other. They can grow apart. And then how do they come back together? Because you know, so-and-so decides to go back to school.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

And and now, and now that common like the things they were commonly doing, maybe whatever they were, they don't have the same time for that anymore. And what brings them together? And now the other person is meeting people in in their classes, or so-and-so gets a new job. Like there's so many examples of it. And I think that the great challenge of relationship, and that I think that what I really struggle with is that I don't know if I truly am growing and learning, but I believe I am. And I feel like I I'm constantly shifting and things that were working in a relationship don't work anymore. Like, and I don't know if it's because I'm evolving or because I'm getting to know myself and realizing I can't, you know, I'm not evolved. I don't know. It doesn't matter. Yeah. But the point is the longer you're with someone, you have to be able to ebb and flow together and have that flexibility and malleability. And yet, um what's the opposite of malleability and flexibility? You have to have like a really solid base and foundation. So, like I'm thinking of the example of I know um skyscrapers.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Oh, yeah, they can they move.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

They move even though they look so rigid. And it's kind of that thing, like you gotta be ready for the the heavy winds and storms that come in because you know, when your when your partner suddenly has, you know, chemotherapy treatments and all this stuff or some uh unexpected injuries or whatever, and and everything's just suddenly different.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

I have a okay, I've yet to find a guy who is thinks this is a good idea. But I I know I've mentioned it to other partners and I was like, oh god. But I think it would be great to have like a daily check-in. Yeah, like 10 minutes. Yeah. Because I think the only way you can know and be on top of these things is to be communicating on purpose, though.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Like yeah, intentionally. And I would say two to twenty minutes, you know what I mean? Yeah, because it's like you got anything, yeah, got anything, nah, you know. But you know, like, well, maybe two isn't fair. You like I think people do need to share what's happening in their day.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Yeah. Like with an intentional, let's sit down and share, and then um also maybe anything that has been bothering you or that you need or what do you need from me? Is there anything else you need from me based on how we were together today or something? Yeah, I don't know. And I know it sounds like a freaking drag, but I don't think it does.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

I think I've never met a guy who doesn't think it sounds like a drag. Yeah. It it's not to me that it sounds like a drag, but just what I and I I don't know because I did not stay married long enough, I don't think. But the people I know that are have been in very long-term relationships where, you know, life gets very consuming and you get very, very, very busy. And it's easy to schedule yourself to a point where the check-in just feels unrealistic. And, you know, it's so easy at the beginning of the relationship to think, yeah, of course we'd want to invest in 10 minutes a day. But I know busy families with young, young, young children, and they're just like, by the time it's time for check-in, I'm exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

But what about at this age? So this is a older children. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Well, I'd like to think, I'd like to think that at the stage you're at now, it in a way, like, on one hand, the challenge is that you're not investing in anything together, but that's also what liberates it. Like that allows you to go, hey, we're investing just in being together, which means check-ins, which means learning to communicate, which means reading books together so we can speak the same language, like before we start bickering and arguing. Let's do it in the early stages, you know, and and and I think that is something that I can speak to Jim and I because we were older when we met, and because I had like pretty good toolbox, and Jim had his own toolbox from you know, his experience. We did set pretty good foundations and make it make me feel like, wow, this is possible when you're both on the same page, you know. And yeah, we're still not together.

unknown 48:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Woo-hoo!

SPEAKER_00 48:34

But it wasn't because we couldn't communicate.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Hey, I just want to um I want to say, but who knows? Maybe people do invest in even if they're older, maybe eventually, maybe in five years, they decide they're gonna live together, or maybe they decide they're yeah, so there could be a mutual absolutely, there's absolutely investing.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Sorry, I just that was my quick way of saying you're not blinded by the desire to make kids and to build a life. Like it's just so different in your early 20s or late 20s, early 30s, where you're just at the starting gate. Yeah, you know, um, but absolutely no, I think that there is investment. There's absolute investment. In fact, the cool thing about being older is the relationship becomes the investment. And perhaps, yes, we buy homes together, or you know, we have literal investments. Yeah, that's that's totally cool. And I mean, that should happen. I mean, when people get married, that's what getting married uh that is a part of getting married. Yes, having, you know, all those kinds of things. I hope. Yeah. But uh, you know what? You have to go teach. Yeah, I gotta go.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

I've gotta go.

SPEAKER_00 49:38

And uh this has been a fun conversation. Yeah. Thanks, Angie. Thank you. Have a great day. And Angela's going on, Ange has her third date with someone tonight. So the next time we chat, we'll see. Is she still seeing the third date guy?

unknown 49:55

Okay, bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Okay, well, there you have it. Thank you for listening. Um, as I edit this, I just want to interject that gaslighting can only happen when it's a really trusted person that you've sort of opened and shared your deepest, darkest with. Um, so yeah, what are your comments? Please send us them. And once again, thank you, Stephen Morton, for your beautiful artwork.