How do YOU do love?
How do you do love? Let's explore in a unique way. First, I'll perform chapters of my show and then next, my good friend Ang & I will chat about the themes! We've both had a LOT of dating experience plus we have both explored our inner selves and learned a great deal about human interaction as educators over the years. We enjoy talking about how WE do love and how we want to be loved and we have a LOT to say! Do you have something to say? Any comments or ideas around our themes are welcome: Drop us a voice memo that we could add to the next episode: dahlbergme@gmail.com
How do YOU do love?
Following your gut and other ramblings. . .
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Learn what happened after Ang's THIRD date with that FOURTH guy. At what point do you drop the strategies and just know to trust your gut? Or is that simply retrospective in itself? Also Mag gives away a little more info about how she is living single and free again. What do you think of pictures of people with pets in online dating apps? Send us a comment about that or anything else that inspires you!
Um, okay, I'm just gonna say hi, how are you? And then can you say hi, how are you? Hi, how are you? Okay, our levels look actually pretty equal.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So, um Let me just try with my larynx a little higher. Let me try with my soft palette a little lower. Let me try.
SPEAKER_00I would like to be able to speak the way they speak in Italy because I think they use their faces to make sounds instead of their chests. Yay! Whereas I feel like I talk like an American with my chest. I'm like my dad, I'm very loud. But I really love like when you when you go to Europe and you hear I I've only been to Italy. Interesting. And when they talk, they're like Italian speaking. And then they talk louder in the, but they're still here. Whereas I just feel like I always bellow. Okay. Have we started?
SPEAKER_02Um, let's start. Right now? Yeah. Now let's do it. Now.
SPEAKER_00Hello, and welcome to the podcast. This is how do you do love with Mag and Ang. I am Mag, also known as Margaret Dahlberg, and this is Angela C.
SPEAKER_02Because that is how we put our names on our work sheets when we were in elementary school. And I I love it when I see Angela C. Angela C. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Were there more Angelas in your class?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. It's also my rap name. Yo, yo, yo, Angela C here.
SPEAKER_00That was so dope.
SPEAKER_02Thanks. Um I'm running out of name jokes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know what I would be. But I was, I don't, I I mean, I think I don't think I put my second my initial on because there was only one Maggie or Margaret. I was Maggie in elementary school.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Maggie D. Maggie D.
SPEAKER_01That's actually pretty good. Maggie D. Yo, yo. What was that? Yo, yo, yo, I'm Maggie D. Yo, yo, yo, I'm Angie C. No. Angelis. Angie C and Maggie D. Boop. Here we are.
SPEAKER_02Oh, damn it. Tell your little podcast. No, fuck. I gotta do that.
SPEAKER_00Well, we're sitting here talking, getting down today. I don't know what we're gonna say. Oh god.
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I feel like our it's funny how our energy changes like the very first podcast of season two, where you just come off of a performance and we it was the end of June and we were both like exhausted and kind of like uh it was a different energy. And then the next two, the next one was you considering online dating, and now the next one was you in online dating and having fun, and there was to me a levity we had for those two, and then tonight I feel like we're a little more like I got a sugar hangover and um yeah, it's the sugar, it is the sugar, it's because I didn't Angela's worn out because she's dating so much these days. Actually, it's not true.
SPEAKER_02You are dating one person, one person over and over and over and over.
SPEAKER_00Um, would you like to share the update or shall I introduce it?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'd love to hear what you have to say about it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, folks. So if you uh tuned into episode three, Angela was of season two. Of season two. Episode three. Uh Angela was going on her third date with a guy. And um, Angela, what's happened since? Tell us about that third date, and now where are you at?
SPEAKER_02Third date was really fun. Um, he brought me some flowers, some walking flowers.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02So I mean, what are walking flowers? I might have called them that, but he brought me some flowers and I was we were like going places. So I said, should I put these in my car? But it was really hot, and he said, No, you just walk around with them. And I was like, walking flowers.
SPEAKER_00I love it. These are walking flowers. It's like carrying a parasol. Yes, you can carry flowers. I know actually, I kind of like that. I liked it. I liked it a lot. If you know Ange and her style and like wearing, I saw her in the dress she was wearing on her third. Was that your third date? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and uh she would have looked just gorgeous with with a bouquet.
SPEAKER_02Maybe felt very special. It really did. Um, and that was super fun. And then the date four, basically date four, we were like, or maybe it was date three, we were like, should we just like cancel our hinge accounts? Sure, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Wow, that's fantastic. I mean, that obviously it's not it's not canceled, it's just you're done. It's deleted or whatever.
SPEAKER_02It's what do you mean it's not canceled?
SPEAKER_00I mean it's like if you went back in and you could, it's deactivated, right? Oh, okay, I'm gonna do that. So you could reactivate your your account and and be back on. I'm just saying, like but that's to me, I I downplayed it because it's just a really nice step of acknowledging that we're no longer looking for other people. Yes, you're not getting married.
SPEAKER_02No, I wasn't like, let's deactivate these and then let's start planning the next 40 years. No, we were just like, wouldn't, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, it's your way of saying we're gonna just explore each other now.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00We couldn't go in. We're just gonna explore each other now. And starting now, and um so you so so you have continued. I mean, we don't want to get into too much detail because now we've got this other human being that's a part of it. But the point is you were successful. You you did so far. Yes, you didn't could end tomorrow. You you I mean, you did pretty darn well, I would say. No, are a month later. You know what? I oh, can I say something? No, sorry. I'm uh there's other people here that have their hands up.
SPEAKER_02Because I just I just had an epiphany.
SPEAKER_00Literally, just now?
SPEAKER_02Like just now.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I'm very excited. Epiphany away.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Here's why I think there was success. Because date four guy was known as the long shot by some of my friends because we didn't chat much. I based my is this this guy is date four guy. Yeah, this guy's date four guy.
SPEAKER_00Can we give him a name?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. His real name or can I Can we call?
SPEAKER_00Let's quick quick text him. No, we're not gonna give his real name unless. I don't think he cares. No, he doesn't care.
SPEAKER_02No, I think he's into it. I think he thinks that nobody listens to this. No, I'm just kidding. Well, nobody does really.
SPEAKER_00No, that's not true. He listens to this. We do have listeners in Michigan.
SPEAKER_02I know he didn't say that. I mean, no, he listens to it, and I think he would be amused by it. And we're not gonna say his last name or his address or anything.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Why don't we just say the first two letters of his name? R-O. Well, I was thinking Ra. Ra.
SPEAKER_02That could be like Roger. Roger. Roger, it could be Roth's child. Or it could be some like really Robert. It could be wait, let me come up with one. I was thinking like Raj Rajdah or like Raja. Raja, like your cat.
SPEAKER_00There's gotta be humans named Raja. It could be Are there men? Are there real humans named Raja? Raw.
SPEAKER_02Ron. Ronalds. Ronald. Oh boy, I don't think I could date a Ronald.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, it could be any of those names, but it's not.
SPEAKER_02It's not. We don't know.
SPEAKER_00We don't know his name.
SPEAKER_02But here's my epiphany. My epiphany was that I just went with my gut on that particular hinge date. I was like, we hardly talked at all. I liked what he said. He said this thing about he had this David Bowie quote. I was like, I love that. And I liked the way he looked. And based on that, I was like, let's meet. Let's just do it. Even though I did not. Oh, I did get his last name. That's true. I did the thing where he got his last name.
SPEAKER_00You did a little research just to make sure he's a real person. Yeah. And you sent me his picture. That's right. And I knew him as well. No, I just No! I did not know him. Thank the fucking Lord.
SPEAKER_02Um, but uh yeah, and I think that's why because I just was like, I'm pulled towards this poor person, whereas the other three dates were a lot more like, we'll have this conversation, we'll ask a thing, which was fine. Yes. I think those were dates were fine dates too. Yeah. But this was more of an intuitive right.
SPEAKER_00No, this was an intuitive thing.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And I felt very much like, let's meet here. And then I was like, let's have a second date. I felt very much like I was um You were not deliberating or ruminating.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's just you were just clear.
SPEAKER_02I was like, let's do it. Let's do it. Not that I was bossy or anything, but I just felt like I knew that.
SPEAKER_00No, and and and it sounds like a lot of what people say, they just sorry, I want to sip that a little louder and swallow.
SPEAKER_02You're like, hold on.
SPEAKER_00We're drinking tea.
SPEAKER_02I have a really loud swallow sound. You do. Yeah. I don't know if I'm trying to work on it.
SPEAKER_00But it's okay. Um, what were you saying? Okay, so Intuition. Yeah, you followed your gut. Yeah. And and you know, so you did the work, you took the time since your last relationship. You did a lot of personal work. Oh my god, yeah. You were conscientious about creating your profile and what you were looking for and what you were gonna do differently. And then um, but after that, so you had that all that intellectual and and and um fact gathering in there, but then you allowed your gut to lead. And so far, it's working. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So far. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, early days, but you gotta enjoy the times as they well, the great thing about our age is that you just you know, it's it's it's a nice stage where you can just keep saying yes, and then if if it's a no, it's a no. I mean, I guess at any stage. But the great thing about being a little older is it's you're both established and you're not like gonna start meeting each other's friends, like and finding social lives together. I mean, you will over time if you stay together, but it's just different.
SPEAKER_02He did meet a couple of my friends on the weekend.
SPEAKER_00Oh, he did?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And how was that? Um it was fine. And was that intentional for you to kind of see if how he was with people?
SPEAKER_02No, absolutely not. I just thought it might be fun. I hadn't seen these people for a while, and I thought, let's just combine a little visit. Oh yeah, that's all.
SPEAKER_00I haven't met him.
SPEAKER_02I know.
SPEAKER_00What the fuck?
SPEAKER_02I know. This is exciting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is very exciting. I um and and I just want to commend how you've you've managed it. The like I I can't believe how uh relatively calm you stayed through the online dating process. And I'm so excited. I can't believe how quickly you met someone, and and I just I'm so excited about it. Like, and I don't mean, I mean like how effectively you seem to meet someone and how well it's going. I'm just thrilled because I uh you know, there it's gotta work. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, obviously it was luck or uh or it was written in the stars. No, I don't know. But I maybe you say calm, although I was pretty activated, one might say, during chatting with all those different people. All of those different people. I didn't like that lifestyle of yeah, it wasn't something that worked for me.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. Well, it's like going to a party. You can only keep up that energy for so long, you know, and and so I I'm I mean, I I again this is this is all super exciting.
SPEAKER_02But I was willing to do that for one month, and then I knew that I uh after one month that I was gonna go off or sorry, dil whatever, put it put it on snooze, and then if I hadn't met somebody, then I would unsnooze it when I felt yeah back to like I could deal with the um talking, chatting, and trying to be funny and whatever.
SPEAKER_00I'm curious because you talked about like you've learned a lot about yourself in this process because that is the cool thing about when we try something new and we try something different, especially when we get out there and we start meeting people, like what what were some of the things that felt have felt new or that you've learned?
SPEAKER_02Um what I have learned is that I need to mostly just have fun sitting beside a person chatting. And also feel good sitting beside a person saying nothing. And also I learned but there to be like a sense of safety because I think there have been um lots of relationships that have had the chemistry that this one does have, but also like this feeling of like uh like some sort of doom, like I have no idea where this person is coming from, and there's no way they could possibly know where I'm coming from. That kind of a feeling. Like there, there's so there's um a oh my god, I wish my vocabulary was larger right now.
SPEAKER_01I have a thought if I can.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, please you were recreating what you learned when you were born. You know how they say, like, we we only know love how we know it. So if you were in a situation where part of the feeling of love came with a sense of whatever it is you're describing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like how is it gonna be there? Is it gonna be there?
SPEAKER_00Uh I wonder if because you've done all this work on yourself that you no longer recognize that as love. And so now as you are meeting this person and potentially falling in love with somebody new, that is not the familiar feeling you're looking for or seeking out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Now I'm seeking out safe, feeling safe and at ease and consistency.
SPEAKER_02Yes, consistency. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's what I'm I mean, I'm witness, I I I I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it. Maybe that was when I said you seem calm. There's just something different about you than when you were in your early 20s and I watched you date. Yeah, I hope so. God, I know I'm joking about that because I know I'm like, I'm I'm just thinking about like how how different it was back then. But um, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that's what I've learned. And um, I've learned that I value thoughtfulness. Like true thoughtfulness, not just somebody being thoughtful. Not just bells and whistle, thoughtful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not not not just like um the fancy.
SPEAKER_02Not fancy, like let me show you how I'm gonna pick up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like people that are, yeah. I I think your thought is sort of a level of authenticity. Yeah. Consider be someone who's considered and thoughtful. Consider it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you'd think these things would just be like basic, yeah. That's like a I know, I know.
SPEAKER_00For some people, I think it is, but I don't know. Like again, it goes back to how we learned love. Like if love was uh not a stable if if we didn't, if we had a, you know, like again, our families are amazing. Like I love your family, I love my parents, I love our families that we're all great people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But you know, if if you're in a scenario where where there's strife or stress or struggle as part of the love, yeah, then it that's just kind of what we know. And that's what's different. Like you are not like you're not doing the, but I'm kind of wondering, like, it sort of seems like what do you think of this text? What do you think he meant by that? Do you think he's uh yeah, maybe confidence. You're just confident. Yeah. Well Oh my god, I think you might be like that tall friend of ours who doesn't put up with anything that she's not interested in because it seems like you're very yeah, you have a confidence.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I feel like I've also attracted a person who has that confidence and steadfastness.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, because I So far, from what I know. I think like tends to attract like in lines of it's hard to say what stage, but um well, this is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, early days, but still to be continued.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I have a few things, we have a few things to cover. So the first thing is I think what I wanted to do, so I've brought up a few times that I'm no longer in a relationship. And I've sort of ever, you know, I talked in past episodes, I've talked about Jim as the guy, and we were we were very, very solid. And um we are not together anymore. Uh, but I guess I kind of wanted to unpack it a bit because I feel like it just sort of, I was suddenly like, and yeah, and no, I'm not in my relationship anymore. Right. When I I still talk, I will still talk about it. Like I think it was a healthy relationship with great communication. We not neither of us are trained in communicating, you know what I mean? Like we just figured out how to make communicating work for our who we were. And um I guess the question then remains so why aren't you together anymore? And I think I this is what I came up with. And I maybe I already said it, so if I did, we don't have to bring it in. But so I when I met Jim seven years ago, there was a a circumstance that was a a great challenge to our relationship that he we both assumed was going to be changing over time, and we both hoped would be changing over time, and we probably both had our own visions of how it might change over time. And, you know, eventually, you know, we got to the point where uh the circumstance would would continue to get in our way, and we'd work through it and we'd keep working on it. We tried so many different things, and then I think what happened was we realized that all hopes aside, this circumstance was not going to go away. It wasn't going to like we could try everything, but it was, you know, very, very complicated situation. And it was almost like a further evolution of how much we cared about each other to be able to say that I love you enough to see that this can't change, and I love myself enough to know that I can't live with it. And so we're kind of setting each other free, even though it's hard and sad. And um and so we have had like visits and and we have maintained a friendship and um like it kind of blows I don't mean blows people's minds in a good way, but many people I talk to about this, they can't relate because our breakup wasn't like most breakups. It was just like we kind of were throwing our hands up in the air and saying, like, there's things we can't control, both about ourselves but also about the situation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And instead of getting mad and hating each other for it, we are gonna love each other for it, which means it's just not gonna work. Yeah. And so we continue to work on being friends, and it's it's actually been pretty nice. I think, I think if we'd lived in the same city and we'd had a really strong foundational life, we probably could have managed with the circumstance. Yeah. But because we were we didn't have a foundation and it just there was nothing to save and nothing to rescue every time we struggled.
SPEAKER_02So does that do you think well, I mean, me knowing the whole story, that's that's uh I feel completely that that's completely clear and very beautiful, and you know that's the way it is, and that's the way it can be sometimes, and it's certainly better to get to this place than to blame. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I've never had a not b I've never broken up with someone and not been angry and resentful, and I'm not don't have those feelings towards them. I just feel like again, we just spent the weekend together. It was great. And I mean, we are just friends. We have, you know, we sleep in separate beds. There's no physical, um, no sexual.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's more to um, you know, just because you don't, I'm just throwing this out there, aren't having, you know, physical. That doesn't just mean that you're just friends, also.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, I wanted to talk about a couple things from our last episode. First of all, I wanted to follow up. Remember how I just sort of interjected like telling someone that they need to brush their teeth? Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00So the reason I used that example, it made it sound like I it made it sound like I was such a tough broad being able to tell my boyfriend to go brush his teeth. But I actually had someone say that to me a few years ago. And it was uh, it was actually the guy I was dating that inspired the podcast, the guy that I was dating that was so good at setting boundaries in such a direct way that I would get super triggered. Yeah. And I remember when he told me I needed to brush my teeth, and it triggered me because of course I wasn't pleasing him, and I wasn't, you know, and uh and I remembered um uh him just saying, it's not a big deal. Like, you know, I would hope you would say the same thing to me, you know, if my teeth, if it's just isn't not you, it's just your breath is strong. Can you can you do something about it? And I just remember. Holding that with me, and it actually took me a long time. Like, I mean, I've had many mornings and moments. I'm sure we all do with our partners, where you're kind of like trying to find a place to put your nose so you're not in direct line.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so it was it was actually a really long time before I finally was like, just just say it, just just experiment with it and say it. So it it wasn't something I took lightly, I should say. I'm so glad I did.
SPEAKER_02That brought brought me back to a memory of being when I lived with um when I lived with this guy and um he and his friend came back to our apartment early, and I was just getting up and I was chatting with them in the hallway, and they were making fun of my breath. And from then on, I was like, oh my god, I have to brush my teeth as soon as I get like it's stuck with me for the rest of your life. Yeah, like I was like, I will never ever be caught with better breath.
SPEAKER_00Isn't that amazing? Yeah, isn't that amazing? Just and they were just probably having fun. They were having fun, they're like, whoa morning, brother. You were like, Oh, I must be desirable. I must I can't be flawed, I must be beautiful and attractive and have perfect breath. Yes. Yes, and they have they had no idea. Yeah. Maybe they're they're one of our listener.
SPEAKER_01That's funny.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I have another another thing I wanted to chat about. So you know this check-in thing you talked about, like so. Last time you, I think it was last episode, you said I want to do check-ins, and most guys don't want to do them, and I want to I want to have this as a regular thing. Yeah. And this is what I was thinking. I was, I find that at the end of a day, I do so much socializing as a teacher. And I was, I I've date I once dated a guy that just talked just so much. And I was thinking, I could feel this feeling of like doing a check-in and and the partner being like, oh yeah, well, where do I start? Well, I got up this morning and I went and swept up, but you know, it was and and like feeling held prisoner because it's a check-in. Yeah. So I don't know, like, I don't even know where I want to go with this, but I just remembered thinking, oh my God, I couldn't do it if I was dating someone. Because I also think there are people with certain brains, they can't cut things. Yes. They have to do tell you everything.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And then there are the people that are or those people will just say it was good because they're like, I can't go into the detail of my day. So I I'm just curious about, I'll be curious as you build your relationships and you experiment with it. Like, how do you like how do you set rules and boundaries for check-ins so one person isn't feeling assaulted by information or the other person isn't feeling like pressure to share more than they have, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Thoughts? Oh, okay. I do have some thoughts. Well, first of all, my first thought is when when will I start these check-ins?
SPEAKER_00Because it doesn't seem appropriate right now to really checking in constant, you're probably checking, you're constantly at that stage.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Maybe when you're, you know, when your schedule changes and you don't see each other as much or you're busier, like because things are maybe you'll just keep doing it.
SPEAKER_02Actually, that makes sense because I'm a little bit concerned. Okay, here's my concern is that um when I do start to teach Monday to Monday, is that how you say that?
SPEAKER_00Monday to Monday to Monday. Monday to Sunday.
SPEAKER_02Um, all the days. 24-7. Um, I'm gonna be unavailable.
SPEAKER_00You're gonna be less available.
SPEAKER_02Less available. I'm not gonna be unavailable. Oh my god. I'm gonna be less available. And will I be able to um give this person? I mean, this person who is not named Raja or Rob is a very busy person and has lots of many things in his life, including children. So I'm not saying this person is um waiting on my all of my texts. But because I work at night when people finish working and then they're just relaxing and then they're thinking about the and then I'm working, yeah. Will I be able to that could be a really good time?
SPEAKER_00Like knowing you, I would just imagine you getting into your car and doing a check-in. Like, because that's like you love chatting with people when you're driving.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I mean, I think again, I think you'll know when it's time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I've just been told by former boyfriends that uh you're just so busy. And um I don't think I am the most busy person and by any stretch of the imagination.
SPEAKER_00But maybe you just wear the word busy to keep, you know, I don't say that I'm busy, it's just all of your schedule.
SPEAKER_02I've booked my schedule pre-meeting a person. You booked your schedule pre-meeting Ra Ja Ferton Raf Ra. Can you look up our names?
SPEAKER_00Just a second. You want me to look up our names?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we can Ronaldo.
SPEAKER_02Ronaldo, Ronaldo, whose name is Rolf, Rolf Rol Rolf.
SPEAKER_00Rolf. Rolfgio. I feel like there's all these Italian Ronaldi Row. I keep saying R-Is. R-A-O. I mean R-O-A Row rolled. Rolled, rolled as in rolled doll. Yeah, R-O. Unless you have something more interesting to say, Angela. Okay, go.
SPEAKER_02What I have to say is that I hope that um my change of schedule, this person is still able to feel my my commitment and connection to the Yeah, that the momentum continues.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But anyway, well.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I'm gonna move forward. All right. So yeah, I guess we didn't really anyway. So that was just my my comment on the chat, the check-ins. I'd be curious to hear, you know, because we haven't figured out check-ins, neither of you and I, you nor I have done them. Yeah. Um, but I would be curious to know about that. And then um now I wanted to follow up on this too. So do you remember I was like griping about guys' pictures with their dogs? Yes. Oh my god. So I did a search on it and I discovered that it's actually something that is recommended because it creates more of a sense of trustworthiness. Uh and um, like they, you know, there's some kind of statistics about when a man puts a picture with his dog, or probably a person, but I was specifically talking about men and dogs. But there is something called dog fishing. Did you read about that? I can't remember what it was. Pause. Let me just look this up. Okay. In online dating, dog fishing is a trend where people use photos of cute dogs, sometimes not even their own, in their profiles as bait to get more matches and attention.
SPEAKER_02Well, okay. No, we use bait. You could say that anything is bait. I used my smile as bait, or this person used their boobs as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you didn't you didn't take like a fake dog like an animal that wasn't yours. Because you're right. And and and we know in case you met someone who happens to have a dog and had a picture of themselves with their dog, you know that it's truly their dog. I know that it's truly their dog. That he has a good heart and he wanted to show his dog for that reason. But the question remains, why did you not have a picture of yourself with your cat, Angela?
SPEAKER_02Well, I Because he's an asshole and he would have torn people away. No, because I felt like my saying, I don't know. I didn't even consider it.
SPEAKER_00I know, I'm joking. That's because women don't put pictures of like I don't think women put pictures of the case.
SPEAKER_02I don't think I have a picture of me with my cat.
SPEAKER_00Look, I would love to hear. I should um maybe before our next podcast, I will actually do a search about do people recommend that women put pictures of themselves with pets? Like, do men even care about that stuff? Or is it more that because women are more looking for that trustworthiness?
SPEAKER_02So I'd be curious to get it. Um I think that um Ronaldo told me that he saw Raul. Raul. Oh Raul. That's a good one. He yeah, and unfortunately unfortunately, he's not Latino. Or I mean fortunately.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_00Cancelled, we're cancelled. Oh my god. Let's just let's just say neutrally, he is not Latino. Which would be fortunate, uh it would be just fine if he was. Not because oh god.
SPEAKER_02Um we're keeping it in. Our neighbors are gonna cancel us, but they know what I mean. So it'll be fine. They're not listening. Yeah, they're not listening. Uh the point was what was the point about Raul? I don't know. I've lost, I've totally lost something about Raul.
SPEAKER_00Raul's dog? Trustworthy. Oh, would women picture of Sal. Why didn't you?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I don't know if that's where we were, but I no, that's what we were where we were going. Okay. I think because I put out of cats and book scalp cats. Oh, no, no, no, sorry. Raul told me that um he saw a lot of women online doing some sort of like some sort of golf thing. Like a I can't remember what it was now, but some some sort of it was some sort of like physical activity. Like here I am in my golf shorts or my golf gear. Um, and there were a lot of women's profiles with that. So I wonder if women want to show I'm outdoorsy or I'm I can keep I can play with the boys. Yeah, I can be a what do you call this? Uh when you're when you're one of the guys. I can be one of the guys. I can be one of the guys. Oh interesting.
SPEAKER_00I think maybe that's whereas the men are like, I can be kind to an animal. Yeah. So I can be one of the guys. You'll be like my I'll treat you well just like I treat my pet well. Okay, let's move on because we have a date. Okay. You and I. Yeah, with not a not a romantic date.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, okay, so the next thing is we do have a comment. Okay, so this is Maddie from Calgary, and she says, Hey Mag and Ange, I really appreciated your conversation about gaslighting, as my understanding of it wasn't quite correct. It is definitely a devious psychological tactic that controlling people use to erode confidence and raises self-doubts about everything we think, feel, and experience. My question to you two, to you two, my question to you two is why is it so hard to say? My question to you two is when it's happening in a relationship, do you have advice on first how to recognize that it's going on, and second, how to call it out?
SPEAKER_02I want to say something. I can you can fucking feel it.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's what I yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it feels like shit.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I I was that was my experience. I just remember feeling it because I was so insecure about myself. I didn't know that's what it was. I probably till 15, 20, 30 minutes later, and the conversation was over.
SPEAKER_02I tried to call it out the first time it happened, and it was just denied, denied, denied, denied. And I think the person was very surprised that I that I noticed it. Um, but you can't, it's like the people who do that in general aren't going to admit it, and it's and calling it out isn't gonna do any good. You have to take note of that, and if it happens again, you have to back away from that relationship, I think.
SPEAKER_00Well, I know it's funny. What can you do about it? My my first thought is your own therapy to have strength and conviction and presence to know that when someone is telling you something that's not true, that you can know and say and not be sort of manipulatable in that way. So I don't know, like that's a toughie. And then I mean, I suppose, like, you know, anything it comes down to con to talking about it because I do want to go back, like this Maddie's really talking about like someone who's intentionally doing it. I think a lot of us don't intentionally do it. And so to me, again, it's like it's like that, hey, can we talk about this? Like, I I think something that's really important in relationships of any sort is that you shouldn't not bring something up just because it's been a while. Like you should be able to say and in a safe way, not like, yeah, yeah, but like last time you blah, blah, blah, but you know, because that's not good, or you never, you always, but to be able to say, hey, remember, like we had this thing a couple weeks ago and it hasn't sat well with me, and I just want to talk it through. And can we talk about it because I don't know if you intended it, but you seemed certain that things were this way, but they they really aren't this way for me. I've thought about it a long time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love the way you say that. The, you know, I I don't think I've ever had the balls to bring something up and say, you know, I've been thinking about this and and I I need to talk about it now. Like I don't think I have.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if those would be balls because like the reason I have had to learn to do it is because I I I freeze, I'm incapable in conflict to speak up for myself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I've basically had to learn, like, look, you you just bring it up when you can.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you hope, like, and again, the thing is the great thing about bringing things up after the fact is you can find common ground and be calm about it and create protect, like say, look, I I need to talk this through. Is this a good time? You know, can we can we give this some thought?
SPEAKER_02Like, I mean, honestly, with the gaslighting, in my experience, the person, if you're with a person who does that, I'm I'm thinking to the effect that it happened to me, you're not gonna get anywhere.
SPEAKER_00Well, again, hopefully doing the personal work we do, we're not gonna attract those people again. And if we do see it happening, we it won't get to that level. Like they won't either they won't stay in our lives long, or they will be open to learning and growing. And and why like because why are people doing that? It's because they're not possessing certain tools, it's because of their trauma, it's because of their whatever issues you want to call it. I'm not saying we we should have to hold their hand through it, you know, but if it just depends, like that's the thing. Like everything is a co-creation.
SPEAKER_02It is, and you know, I sometimes I forget like the kind of behaviors that I like during this podcast, you know, when we're when we're talking, sometimes I forget where I came from, like how much growth I've had in the past 10 years. And I think behave in perfect ways a lot of my life. Yeah, you know, and I how easily we forget, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and I think you and I both tend for the most part to surround ourselves, particularly with the women in our lives, with people that are able to have much sort of mature, learned conversations. We don't have a lot of conflict, but we also if we do, we're like following the rules of how to talk respectfully to people. And the the thing is, I I just think that I don't know how realistic that is, and especially when we're young, like we do have to we do outgrow it. Not outgrow it, we do grow past it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah if we're open to growing past it.
SPEAKER_00Um I'm trying to I think that's that's all the things I I had. Do you have uh is there anything I'm just enjoying this?
SPEAKER_02I'm aware that this is a good time of life right now, rather than trying to look ahead or be like, well, it's nice now, but you know, I'm just letting you know because with with friends, I I'll talk about this with friends and and I want them to know, look, I'm just enjoying it as it comes. Yeah. And that's what I'm trying to do.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And and it's not about what's gonna happen this time, or is it gonna like it's just about it works like, and that's the great thing about all the sort of structure you put in there. Like it works until it doesn't, right? And that could be 30 years from now, or it could be three months from now. Like it's whatever, right? And I think that is why it goes back to what we talked about from the molecule of more. Don't make any big plans for 12 to 18 months. By the way, in 30 years, I'll be 85. So just well, uh wouldn't that be a good- Do you want to still be together in 30 years? I do. I would say it's gonna be dead or something.
SPEAKER_02If it if it lasts 30 years, I would say that it's probably because I think you said, or if it I don't know. I know.
SPEAKER_00I did that in that's so funny. I was like, it lasts 30 years, which let's what was I really saying? Could last you could be together for the rest of your lives. And then you'll get divorced at 85. You'll be like, it's not working anymore. It's not working anymore. I wanna do it. Oh my god. I love it. Well, thanks, Ash. That was fun. Thanks, Margaret. Have a great have a great night, maybe me going for one friends. Okay. Okay, bye. Okay, well, thank you for joining us today. Um, I'm just signing off and saying I did do a little research and where it suggests men put dog pictures up specifically to gain trustworthiness. Women, they suggest put dog pictures up, and this is specifically heterosexual relationships, because it's a great conversation starter. So definitely two different perspectives on the line about that. Thanks again, Stephen Morton, for your beautiful artwork. Goodbye.