Why MSP Growth Starts With Community with Jake Webber-Cadby

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl Alt Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP; one that actually works for them.

I’m Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we’ve spent decades building, scaling, and eventually exiting our own MSP business.

In this episode, we sit down with Jake Webber-Cadby from Inforcer, one of those people in the MSP channel who brings both big vendor experience and a genuinely practical view of what MSPs need to succeed. With a background that includes Datto, ConnectWise, and now Inforcer, Jake has spent years working closely with MSPs and understanding the realities of the industry from both the commercial and operational side.

Jake shares his journey into the MSP space, from a sports focused upbringing and dreams of professional golf through to building a career in the channel. We explore what makes the MSP industry so unique, why community matters more than ever, and how relationships, events, and peer networks can create real momentum for business growth. We also unpack the challenges MSPs face when adopting new tools, navigating Microsoft’s moving partner landscape, and making sure technology investments actually deliver value.

Here is what we covered together:

✅ How Jake’s career began through family connections and an introduction to Datto
✅ What makes the MSP community so unique and why peer support matters
✅ Why MSP owners need to go where their clients gather instead of waiting for growth to happen
✅ How events, communities, and real conversations help build stronger business relationships
✅ Why so many MSPs underuse the tools they buy and what successful adoption looks like
✅ The importance of clear onboarding, ownership, and accountability when bringing in new technology
✅ Why MSPs need to be intentional about the tools they choose and the clients they serve
✅ How to stay on top of Microsoft changes and make better use of partner relationships

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we’d had more of while running our own MSP, practical insights from people who understand the challenges, pressures, and opportunities in this industry.

👉 Connect with Jake Webber-Cadby on LinkedIn: Jake Webber Cadby
👉 Learn more about Inforcer: Inforcer
🎧 Listen to other MSP Mastery Podcast episodes here: mspmastery.blog
🎧 Listen through YouTube Podcast here: YouTube Podcast
📸 Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/mspmastery
▶️ Subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@MSPMastery

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You need to be going to where your clients gather, making those connections, having those chats and finding out what's going on in their world, just sitting back in your office managing tickets and expecting new clients to come and bang on your door. It just doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

A few years ago, you didn't have like these blueprints and you didn't have all of these peer groups guiding you through it. So for an MSP owner now being able to go to these events and being able to lean on so many peers, there's so many online communities that they can join. People helping each other rather than it being a place where people go to steal customers, which is really unique.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Welcome to MSP Mastery, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP, one that actually works for them. I'm Jenny Clift, and alongside my longtime business and life partner Nick, we unpack what's really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them. With more than 60 years of combined experience, we've seen it all from the first break fix calls to the sophisticated MSP tools of today. We've been early adopters of the tech and the strategies that shifted our industry towards recurring revenue and long-term success. Our goal with this podcast is to share the real stories and hard-won lessons that inspire and add genuine value to our industry, helping you build a business that is both profitable and fulfilling. This is MFP Mastery. Here's Nick, myself, and today's special guest. Today we're joined by Jake Webercadby, one of those rare people in the MSP channel who combine big vendor experience with genuinely down-to-earth energy. We first met Jake last year, and since he's even survived working closely with our son Sam, we feel it's only right to start by offering a formal apology on behalf of the Clift family. Professionally, Jake's journey has taken him through some of the industry's biggest players with key roles across DATO and ConnectWise, and he's now continuing that momentum at Enforcer. Along the way, he's built a reputation for understanding what MSPs actually need in the real world, not just in theory, and for showing up as someone who's easy to work with, commercially sharp, and deeply embedded in the channel. Outside of work, Jake's also seriously accomplished on the golf course. He's earned himself an impressive handicap. And we can personally confirm he can back it up, including a memorable game with Nick in Bali last year that's still being talked about. Warm, knowledgeable, and full of great stories from both the MSP world and the fairway. Jake brings a perspective that's equal part practical and refreshing. And we're excited for this chat. Jake, welcome to MSP Mastery.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Thank you so much, Jenny. I think I need to get you on every call of mine to do my introduction.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Well, I'll just send the recording through to you and you can just play that at the start of each one.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, that's super.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah, good to see you guys again. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

So as an EOS implementer, Jake, I always start these sessions, these podcasts, with asking you to share your personal and professional best from the last six months, or a bit over if that works for you.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, well, I think that's a bit of an easy one on the personal best side. So that was definitely a memorable trip to Bali back in August. Yeah, a little over six months ago now, where we visited you guys.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Yeah, came to see us.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yeah, there was a group of seven of us that traveled out from London. Actually, all of us met at Datto in the MSP space, many of our first jobs. Yeah, that was definitely a highlight. What a beautiful country. Particular highlight was the party that that was hosted for your birthday, Jenny.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

The celebration of the anniversary of my 42nd birthday.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

And being collected in what were the cars, Nick? Vol Volkswagen safaris, yeah, like the staff cars. They know very, very cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah, a convoy of Volkswagen safaris going through the town. It was yeah, it was unbelievable. But yeah, that was definitely a high line. Business-wise, I would say it was our company kickoff in back in January. So just reflecting on the previous 12 months and having everyone together from all over the world. We had team from Australia, team from the US, and it was quite a an eye-opening moment as I joined the business about 18 months ago, a little over now, as number 19, and there was 150 of us at the kickoff. So wow, that's growth.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

That's wild growth.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, it was it was really cool to see.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Nice. So I'll get you to introduce yourself beyond my amazing introduction that I just did. But tell us a bit about yourself, how you ended up, where you are. Because you started off a golf course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, so I guess, you know, I was always a kid fanatical about sports. I was never one of these ones that was tinkering around with computers. So ending up in the MSP space might seem like a bit of an odd world to end in, but my dad actually ran an MSP. He started his business back in 2000 and started doing actually network cabling. So started really as an electrician. That was his trade. And he would go into local councils, he would do some cabling jobs, and eventually started getting contract work with local schools, and then from there developed, started looking after other things on the network, and then became a managed service provider from there. So my career in sports soon started to dip off. I wasn't quite good enough to make it as a professional golfer. So I said to Dad, what on earth should I do? And he said, Well, I don't think it's probably best if we work with each other because we decided we would, you know, we agreed we'd end up killing each other, to be honest. So he was like, the next best thing is I know a gentleman called Christian Negelli who worked at Datto. He was one of the founders of Central Stage, which is now Datto RMM. Dad introduced me to Christian at Datto, and I got a job as a sales development representative, cold cooling there. Um and that was really my first entry point into the MSP vendor land and haven't left since.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Wow. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, I've met Christian a few times in the in my journey through the daddo deadto cons around the world. He's a cool guy, super smart. You mentioned at the intro that the kind of crew that came to Bali were all kind of met or associated through Deadto back in the day. Is that but how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

How long ago were you starting at Dead O? Just over seven years ago now. It was back in back in 2019. So that's absolutely flown by. But yeah, we we all started there. I think Sam and I, your lovely son, are the only two remaining in the in the MSP space. So we'd been whipped up by it and we we love it. So and we are both the Nepo babies as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Yeah, I was gonna say you've had a very similar journey to Sam, although Sam did work in our business, did a traineeship through uh tech traineeship and decided that wasn't his gig. Well, actually both boys moved into sales. Oscar started in sales and Sam decided being a tech not his jam and ended up in sales as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, well, I think it makes the the best salespeople to to some degree though, when they can get that balance of the commercial mindset, but at least he's got a good technical understanding as well. So, you know, instantly helps you get credibility when you're speaking to technical folks in an MSP. If you can at least get on their level to some degree, there's just that instant level of trust, which is which is dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Enough to get you into trouble.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah, exactly. And then it so you started in started at DETO, and how did you win that where you are now? Did a couple of years at Datto, and then I actually tried to do six months going into the enterprise world. And I thought I was a young hotshock salesperson. I thought, you know what, if I can sell to a managed service provider, why can't I go and sell to some of the largest companies in the world? So I joined a business and just six months later absolutely hated it. Really slow sell cycles, just not very it wasn't very personable. You know, I'm I'm big on the relationship side and in the MSP space, I feel like that is so integral and there's so many opportunities to build those great relationships with with partners. So six months there, decided I'm getting back into the MSP space, and then I actually joined ConnectWise. So one of Datto's biggest competitors, I was excited by their breadth and the portfolio of products they had. And at the time, I think comfortably were the had the largest MSP space, sorry, in terms of their client base in in the industry. So I joined there and kind of spent four years there working my way up, started as an individual contributor, focused specifically on the security side of things there. So ConnectWise had their own SOC operation. We used to do MDR solutions for MSPs, and ended up actually running a team there of sales guys focused specifically on the security suite. So that's what got me into the looking into the security world a little bit more. And then I actually found Enforcer at the the tail end of my Kinetwise career. And I actually invested in Enforcer six months before I joined them because I saw the I saw the opportunity there and I had heard some really good feedback from from MSPs themselves on on the problem they were solving.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

And something that you touched on there, I think, I think in some ways the industry is quite unique in that it's so relationship-driven. Both if we look back through all of our years running our MSPs, the most success that we had with vendors was when we had a really good relationship with our account managers. And of course, the same with our customers. But I think that goes beyond to the community. You know, the MSPs helping each other out. We were at an event in Melbourne a while back, and somebody who had a major event and other MSPs getting in and helping them instead of going in and you know trying to poach their clients. They actually got in and helped them through that situation. It really is quite a unique industry in in those ways.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, it is. And and I think that's really nice because especially for for MSP business owners, it can be a really lonely place, right? You're trying to figure out is what I'm doing correct? Am I paying my staff enough? Are we offering the right level of service to to our clients? And it's not like you have, or certainly not a few years ago, there's more resource now, but a few years ago you didn't have like these blueprints and you didn't have all of these peer groups guiding you through it. So for an MSP owner now being able to go to these events and being able to lean on so many peers, there's so many online communities that they can join. And like you said, it's just people helping each other rather than it being a place where people go to steal customers, which is which is really unique. Because you would think if that was the same in other industries, that probably wouldn't wouldn't be the case at all.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

And there's always if there's always one, there's always one that's you know quite mercenary and that sort of thing, but it's the rarity.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Yeah, that's cool. I was gonna say, yeah, you wouldn't have Adidas and Nike and Puma in the same room, would you? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

No, it just wouldn't work.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

So try and crush each other or something.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah, it's a it it is a really cool space, and that's what ultimately drew me back to it. I kind of loved that. I I loved the fact that I was at an event last night, we were actually hosting one in our in our office yesterday, and you're seeing some of the biggest competitors in the UK market just having a chat to each other. I just found that really refreshing and everyone knows each other, and yeah, I think it's a really unique industry to work in, and one that if you're not in it, not many people know about, which is which is also quite interesting.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Yeah, because you know everybody sort of knows the accounting industry and you know the insurance brokers and that sort of thing, but the MSP is just sort of, you know, it's a bit of a well-kept secret.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

It is, but but a very important secret.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Absolutely, yeah. Okay, let's get into some questions. So let's dig back in. I really wanted to talk about sort of, you know, and when I was doing these, I sort of came up with names for the questions, but I guess from the fairway to the MSP channel, you started off with golf, then you were moved into MSP, you talked about sort of that that family, I guess, connection. What was the biggest change that you saw? I guess culture shock, but landing in the channel and trying to figure out this whole MSP relationship. What are your memories of that time?

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Chaotic. It is a baptism of fire. Because for someone that doesn't come from a technical background, as I said, I wasn't, you know, one of these kids that was tinkering around with computers. All of a sudden, in your onboarding, you're hearing every acronym under the sun: MSP, SOC, MDR, AV, RMN, SIM, PSA. There is just so much to learn. And I think that is because it is such a technology-heavy industry. You know, the average MSP is working with between anywhere between 15 to 30 different tools. And for you coming into the space with no technical background, you have to get your head around those things, at least at a very high level. So yeah, I do looking back, I remember it being very overwhelming. I remember it taking quite a long time to just get up to speed to even be able to have a very basic conversation with an MSP or an MSP owner without looking like an idiot, to be honest. And I definitely see that now when I'm hiring. When I'm hiring people from outside the MSP space, there is a notable difference between how long it takes them to get ramped compared to hiring people that that already understand all those things and have that foundational knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Sam had that feedback too when he moved from tech into sales. He said he found it really quite straightforward to talk to the other MSPs out there because he he'd used some of the tools. And he kind of he'd got gone through that baptism of fire and spent a couple of years in service desk, which means he does know what it all means. And then moving into selling tools to MSPs was pretty pretty straightforward for him. And he said it's yeah, but I get what you're saying. Coming from outside the industry, we do love a good three-letter acronym or TLA.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, there is an awful lot, and we saw it at ConnectWise, it was probably taking us around 12 months to get people fully ramped if they were not coming from the MSP space. Because you think about ConnectWise specifically, they had about 30 different offerings as well. So you're not only trying to get to grips with the MSPs and what they're doing in their business, you're also trying to get to grips with what you're doing as a vendor and all the different products you have in your portfolio. So it is a it's definitely an overwhelming experience when you first enter it. But then once you're in it, it's one of those cool spaces where you can really lean in and become a bit of a thought leader in certain areas and then people really trust you because you can have those credible conversations.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

When we had our MSP, I kind of joked that you know a new hire would spend their whole first day with me. And one of the things that we that we went I went through on that first day was it kind of it became fondly known as War and Peace. And it was basically an induction document. And a lot of that time was actually spent on the acronyms because we not only had all of the PSA and RMM, a lot of our clients also what we knew them by instead of Wimmer at Catchment Management Authority, it was WCMA. So did then throw a whole lot of client acronyms on top of that. And literally that at the end of it, they'll just be sitting there with their eyes glazed over because there's just so much to learn. And but and how that came about was the terminology. One of our new hives, I think it was about week three, said to me, When when do I get to meet Mixi? I think I've met everybody else, but I haven't met Mixie yet. Harden? He said, Mixie, this person, Mixie. I said, No, Mixi is our telephone system. So we it was M XIE. So we just referred to it as Mixi, and he thought it was a person. I thought, we've got a problem here. We actually need to give people some information up front so that they don't ask to meet the telephone system.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yeah. Yeah, but it's an interesting point though, because it's it's been a common thread that I think from the last couple of podcasts we've done is that onboarding of staff in an MSP whether or any industry really, but specifically MSP, they may have skills or they may not, but the journey of how you run your business is your individual journey. Like like we have we had the DWM way, like and it was the War and Peace manual. And literally from how you should dress and show up to a customer site to how you apply for leave and everything in between, yes, that in general, all businesses run similar things. We have customers, we do the work and we collect the money. That's the general process of business. But the individual way that we do it in each different business is so unique. And uh it's really important to take that time to onboard people properly. And yeah, when you say 12 months to get fully up to speed, I can 100% relate to that. But too many stories I hear of people onboarding someone here's your laptop, here's a phone, here's a list of customers, there's the there's the tools, log in, off you go. And they get lost. And they either, you know, a few unicorns might make it and pick it up and might become a good contributor in the business, but more often than not, they get disenheartened and and doesn't work and they end up leaving. So yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, you yeah, you really need to map out that first journey, you know, the 30s, 60, 90s, be very clear with the expectations you're setting, and then provide them with the the guidance and the the resources to to help them get up to speed. It's not an easy thing to do because you then have to constantly evolve your onboarding based on what's happening in the in the industry as well, and you're always updating your services or your tool stack. So, yeah, integral part to get right, but a difficult part to get right for sure. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

Yeah. And I often hear of, you know, had somebody two months, just didn't work out, they hadn't sold anything yet. After two months, you're expecting them to actually have sold something.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Interesting to see your journey, I suppose, or your impression of this because onboarding a new technology partner is a similar story, right? Because uh I've heard some of my colleagues got a little bit excited about a conference and come back. I may or may not have done this myself and found a new tool and some new shiny object and implemented it over the weekend without even telling anybody. So people rock up to work on Monday and there's a new phone system or a new RMM or this new bit of software that everyone needs to use and like no onboarding, no training, no even overview of what the hell this thing's doing. And it just, yeah, those things are just become a disaster for everybody. Yeah. So I suppose from your point of view being a technology toolkit or MSPs, what's the changed in the delivery of your or delivery of any kind of product into an MSP these days? Are you seeing that people are wanting more training or less or online stuff? How does it kind of work?

SPEAKER_01 20:12

It's a point I resonate a lot with because I I saw it, particularly uh data and connect-wise, a good few years ago now, where MSPs would buy all of these tools and then they would just collect dust on the on the shelf. There was no real defined product owner, there was no real defined plan of how they were going to implement it and then train their folks and ultimately what outcome they were looking to drive from onboarding that tool. We've definitely seen a shift in the past two years, I would say, and particularly during the time at Enforcer where MSPs are maturing their evaluation process of new tools. And I think the reason for that is they've got to the point where there is so much technology sprawl that a lot of MSPs are thinking now, how do we actually consolidate? How do we reduce some of that tooling? So they are being a lot stricter with okay, if we are going to look at a new tool, it has to deliver X, Y, and Z for us. So yeah, we uh, you know, in a typical sales cycle that we see now, you know, many MSPs are coming in knowing this is what we're looking to solve, and this is what we need to see in a tool in order to give it the green light. But that's just on the evaluation side, it doesn't stop there. So what we're working really hard with our MSP partners on is the implementation journey once they've signed for the tool itself. And we've had to put hours into building our implementation manager team. So we've got dedicated implementation managers who will work with the MSPs over the course of the first 90 days. That's really the most pivotal time to drive. Adoption of the tool, but then continuous education from that point onwards. So bi weekly webinars, in-person training, and we see the successful implementations, those are the ones where the MSP has defined a dedicated owner to the project. And there is clear accountability of okay, you are going to be the person working with Enforcer. You're going to be showing up to all the calls. And then they're driving a team behind them and they're teaching them on how to actually get the best out of it. The implementations that aren't as successful is when the business owner will sign the agreement, it's then passed off to someone to go and implement. And perhaps this is the first time they've ever seen Enforcer. So you're almost trying to reverse engineer the process then.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Management by abdication.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah, I I I I like to think that I didn't do that too often. We certainly came back with some exciting ideas and that from conferences, but I don't remember doing a rip and replace of an entire tool set just because I like the guy that was trying to help me solve a problem with it. But I think that's really important. And I I mean I work with a lot of MSPs now, and I and you know, this tool, this tool, yeah, like you say, between 15 and 30 tools is 100% correct. And if you can get 15 of those tools, and this is that what the big players their sale pitch is, well, you can get 15 to 20 of those tools from us, we'll give you we'll even give you a one SKU and you can pay that one fee for one SKU. And but there's probably one of those tools, one or two of those tools the MSP actually wants. The other 18 are kind of adding on, and then they never get deployed. And I agree, it used to annoy with my clients. They'd sign a contract for a bit of software in a in a local government or a hospital, and they'd use it one percent of that software. I said, My God, guys, why can't you just invest some time in training? But it still happens today, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, I mean, you look at RMM as an example. How many MSPs probably have an RMM deployed or an agent deployed right now, and they've only ever used it just to do remote takeover of the device. You know, they've not set up any monitors, they've not set up any of the automations using the scripts, and that's really where the power comes. They're not using it for patching. And that's because they've bought the tool and it's just kind of been left to its own devices, and they just use it for the 5% of the the actual capabilities rather than actually what it can deliver if someone was owning it and driving it forward. So, yeah, I think definitely something we've had to focus so hard on. Otherwise, you do just see adoption just fall off a cliff if you're not there driving the adoption and working with the MSPs on how to get the best out of the tool.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Yeah, definitely. And I think being, yeah, not trying to be everything to everybody either, and and understanding like you have your ideal client for your MSP, you go to that client and if they're running Linux servers and Apple desktops and you're a Windows shop, then there's gonna be friction. And likewise, if you've got a tool you're looking at to assess to solve a business problem, you've got to look at that tool and that company that's providing the tool to see if they are compatible with your industry and your business. And not trying to push a square peg into a round hole, if you like. And you know, there's a there's a theory of best of breed and the search for perfection in every single team versus you know, this product does okay at 80% of the stuff. I'm happy with okay. I don't need to be the gold standard at everything because you can chase that that gold standard forever and you never get there. We have this thing saying done is better than perfect. So I wouldn't recommend that in the security space, of course, Jake. But yeah, but you've got to have something that actually works, but there are there are places you can make compromises.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah, for sure. I I do think you made a really important point there, which is don't try and be everything to everyone, because you know, take Enforcer as an example. We are a tool designed for MSPs that are really leaning into the Microsoft journey. Now, there are some MSPs that are just not on that journey, and they have decided very intentionally to go and part uh adopt all the different third-party technologies and not really consolidate or use much of the Microsoft license. If we try and sell those guys Enforcer, they're not really gonna see the value, they're not gonna adopt it, and then in 12 months' time on renewal, they're not gonna renew. So we are obsessed with who's the ideal sort of customer for Enforcer. Those are the ones we want to bring on board, and they are the ones that are going to adopt the platform and actually get value. So I think that is really important. And I was speaking to an MSP at our event last night about this, where they're going out and just trying to sell to anyone, you know, any sort of end user of any sort of size. And I was like, surely you would want to refine that a little based on what you know, because you you'll have a good idea by now of who your good customers are. And if there are some trends there, why don't you go and look for some more of those so that you don't you don't cause yourself many headaches dealing with customers who are just not bought into the value that you're trying to deliver. So yeah, I think that's something that that everyone should really lean into is defining what their ideal customer looks like.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

I guess continuing on from Nash, because Nick said that may or may not have got a bit excited about products at times and signed up for them or come back to the office and getting that buy-in, the new techs, particularly a lot of I'm a disc profiler, a lot of the people that work in our industry really struggle or resist change. Can you share an experience where you've seen a team move from, I guess, reluctant compliance to genuine excitement, like this thing is actually going to solve a problem for us?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

We've had to deal with that quite a lot because we are uh it is a technical tool in in many ways, and it is a security tool. So we're often speaking to personas in an MSP that might have tried to build some of the capabilities of Enforcer using PowerShell and these are the scripting wizards in the organization. Trying to tell those guys that we're going to remove that work from them and allow a tool to do it really, really gets their backup. So when we're engaging with those folks, our talk track and how we're working with them to actually turn that reluctance into excitement is we're showing them what else they could be doing with that time. And we're showing them how they can still lean into the stuff they're doing now, but they can do it more efficiently, and they can really drive the tool so that they look like a champion internally. You know, if if we can help them look really good internally by saving the entire organization hours or by reducing risk across all of their clients, I think that's how you can start winning over the hearts and minds of those folks. There have been scenarios where you can't change that reluctance. Then you need to pivot and try and speak to the business owners around actually what's the risk of having one person that is responsible for this in the business. If they leave and all of a sudden all this PowerShell, all the scripts are, you know, being are made redundant and there's no one there tinkering with them and evolving them, then what's the risk to the actual organization? So then we try and speak about the the business outcomes more with with the owners.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Yeah, it's interesting because I'm I think thinking back across our journey, and I was never ever in sales, but Nick coming back and sharing stories of business owners, you know, in the early days of of an MSP and probably before we even that was a thing of that always done their IT or the neighbor's kid was doing it and similar sort of thing, taking a whole bunch of computers and disparate and bringing in somebody to look after the whole thing, because a lot of these tools in the industry now are doing exactly the same thing. So it's a conversation that MSP owners are having with their clients.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yeah, for sure. We we see that a lot. But yeah, it's it's not easy when you're when you're trying to change someone's way of working. And humans don't like change, right? So we we have to really coach our sales teams on on how to engage with with those technical personas who might be resistant to the change. Not always going to win them over, but we've had many, many cases where you do truly see the excitement once they uh once they can see the the power of what it can bring to their day-to-day.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

You were talking about partner events, and I know you do a lot of this, you had one last night. So talk us through your experience with these and how these face-to-face events build those relationships, and then how does that flow on, I guess, from you to the MSPs that you're working on, and then MSP Thon to their customers?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, I face-to-face events for Asset Enforcer has been a game changer, to be honest. We've really leaned in heavily on this, we've invested a lot of money into going to these events and sponsoring them. Um, and I think the biggest thing for us is just getting that FaceTime. There is nothing that beats sitting across from an MSP and having a genuine conversation. You know, I think obviously the world shifted during COVID, lots of remote calls, lots of Teams meetings. And I feel like people really appreciate that FaceTime. And it just works because it is an industry where the relationships are so important. MSPs want to be able to trust the vendors that they're working with because the vendors that they put their trust in are absolutely pivotal to the service they're delivering to their clients. So if you can't trust the people that you're working with, then that's not a not a good space to be in. So, yeah, they've been really important for us, not only to drive new business when we were early in our journey, just getting to events and having the opportunity to tell people what we do, because we're such a small name. We're not like a case or a or a Kinetwise little old enforcer. The only way to get out there was to go and meet people and tell them that the challenges that we could solve. So not only did it help us and still helps us drive new business, it's really nice to engage with our existing customers. It's it's often hard to find time in people's days to, you know, for them to come to your office or for you to go and visit them. But if you're both at an industry event together, just having that 30-minute chat at your booth or going and grabbing a coffee is really, really important. And I think it's also important for brand awareness as well. You know, I do I do think many MSPs do go to these industry events. So you need to make sure you're there, you need to make sure you're present so that when people are thinking about a tool in your kind of category, they instantly remember, oh, Enforcer, I remember seeing those guys a dattocon as an example. So yeah, they've been they've been really important for us and and very in fact, very effective.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah, and I think that yeah, that rolls down to the MSP. And we were talking to a sales coach earlier today, and that's his number one tip for MSPs. Go to where your clients are, go to your client events, like you go to the datocons and the you know the IT connects and that kind of stuff. You need to be going to where your clients gather and and making those connections and having those coffees and having those chats and finding out what's going on in their world, just sitting back in your office managing tickets and expecting new clients to come and bang on your door. It just doesn't happen. You've got to get out there.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

And going to peer events like DadoCon, for example, is great to learn about our industry, but your clients aren't there. So that is not a lead generation activity.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, I think MSPs who are going to these events also need to be very intentional of like what do they want to get out of it, because they do present an incredible learning opportunity. All the sessions that are run, all the thought leadership that's provided. If you go, let you know, let's say Datacon's coming up and you know there's a challenge in your business, whether it's technology-wise or whether you have a bottleneck in your sales approach, make sure you're looking at the agenda, picking out the top three to five sessions that you want to go to, and go there and be really intentional about this is what I want to get out of it. I do think they're they're amazing for that side of things as well, not just looking at new tools, but actually going and learning things from whether it's other MSPs or industry experts that are delivering sessions.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

And I think that's where we found a lot of the MSPs that we partnered with. Like we were never SharePoint experts, but we had a couple of other MSPs or SharePoint providers that we worked with. So we used it for that as well. You know, what gaps do we need to fill? And who can we find that we trust to bring in or refer on when we've got work that needs to be done that we can't do?

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah, it's awesome, isn't it? It's just creating those partnerships, having that FaceTime with people. And let's be honest, it's also nice to have a have a drink in the bar at the end of a long day and let your hair down a little bit. We have an obligatory espresso espresso martini. We need to have those. Oh, yeah. I must admit you're pretty good at making those, Nick.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

I could vouch for that. Yeah, I've got to thank my buddy Brendan for the recipe. He's very, very particular about his espresso martinis, and he does make a very good one, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

He even takes his own coffee machine. I want to dig further into an event. So if you're putting on an event with Enforcer, you're inviting a bunch of MSPs along. What does the event look like? And what outcome would you want to get from that?

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah, so when we're discussing our event strategy internally, we're we're firstly thinking about who are the personas within an MSP that we want to engage with. And we've kind of broken down our content into two sections. Technical, so really helping people improve their technical capabilities, improve the level of service they're delivering around Microsoft specifically. So, how can we coordinate and design an event that's going to allow us to bring in technical folks into the room and teach them how to be better at what they do today? And then we also focus on the kind of like business owner, more commercially mindset people, where again, it's a lot more around how do you take all of this great technology, but go and deliver a service to your customers or improve the service that you're already delivering. So, yeah, that's how we think of them. And then there's a lot of preparation that goes into running an event. I mean, we've we've got a dedicated events team, they spend hours upon hours designing them, making sure they're working with the catering partners, making sure we got all the right guest speakers in. There's just a lot of work that goes into it.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Yeah, you can't just decide to put one on next week.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

No, you don't want next week, Joel. I remember back before COVID, we got into the rhythm of doing a quarterly event. And we experimented with you know breakfast, lunch, or late afternoon events. And I think I think we decided the the breakfast ones were probably the better ones, especially if there's traffic issues involved. So what's your experience of like these days? Is it a yeah, is there a time frame that works best?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

It is a difficult one. I think yesterday it worked really well. So yesterday we actually started the event around 1.30 p.m. So it allowed, and the feedback we had is it allowed MSPs to crack on with some work in the morning, and then traveling kind of in the middle of the day is is fine because you're not in the rush hour of the morning and you're not dealing with the rush hour in the evening. So we had a really strong attendance yesterday. I think we had around 70 people sign up and 60 of those people turned up, which is decent. Sometimes you could, you know, sometimes you could have 30 of those people just not show up. So yeah, I think that time makes sense why that would work. So I think we'll probably do more of those. But also we've started doing some like executive dinners. So a bit more small, smaller and intimate settings, 15 people, including maybe Jamie, our CEO, would come along. And then we'll choose a topic. We'll do like an AI steering group dinner or whatever it is, and and they tend to tend to do really well as as well. But you need to pick a nice restaurant.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

With a private room that and and that exclusivity is nice too, you know. There's only 15 and you're one of the lucky 15.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

And I think for for our audience listening, you know, the reason we're going down this kind of discussion is that events, whether you're selling two MSPs or you're an MSP selling to your clients, events I believe are the key to building good relationships. And and that mix-up that you just mentioned, then Jake, I think's a spot on. Yeah, you can do a webinar, you can do an in-person event, you can partner with some of your technology pro partners and help them. Like we would do it, we would run events with using Sophos, I think Sophos data, and then we would get another subject matter expert, another acronym, yeah, an SME in for a particular topic that was topical at the time, like when GDPR and that kind of stuff came out. We got we got some lawyers to come and talk to our clients saying, what are your you know, what is personal identifiable data, what is your obligations? Yeah, when it was cyber insurance was a big thing. We'd have an insurer, insurance broker come in. So you can you can work with your team, come up with a theme, but don't just wing it and say, Oh yeah, I need to run an event next week. Let's let's invite 10 people to the pub. It just doesn't work. They don't they don't turn up. You've got to give value and some information with no real expectation for anyone to come back, other than for them to meet some cool people, have really good discussions, and and things will flow from that.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Build those relationships. Okay, let's jump into the Microsoft moving target. Good old Microsoft partner requirements constantly shifting, as always. So based on what you're seeing now, how can MSPs stay either up to date or ahead of these changes and ensure they don't get caught out by the next update?

SPEAKER_01 41:27

It's not easy. And I'm I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I think for for all that Microsoft do incredibly well, you know, their investment in their technology, the amount that they're bringing to market there, I do think they make it incredibly hard for an MSP to navigate their ecosystem. So my advice to MSPs would be to firstly really lean into your distributor relationship. You know, you've got people like Paxay out there who help MSPs a tremendous amount when it comes to navigating the Microsoft partnership. How can they unlock more of the rebates? How can they progress their partner status? So I would say really drive your your relationship with your disty. You know, work with your account manager, start understanding the training sessions that they can offer. And then I would also say join, I'm gonna do a shameless, shameless plug here, is dial into the enforcer dispatches webinar. On the last Tuesday of every month, our Microsoft expert team will review all the latest changes in the Microsoft Tech Stack over the past four weeks. And we will deliver a very concise one-hour webinar open to everyone, non-enforcer customers as well, where we tell MSPs, these have been all the changes, but here are the five that you should actually care about. And this is what you should go and do with those changes. So, yeah, leverage leverage your relationships, leverage your partners, because trying to figure it out yourselves is a near-on full-time job in itself.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

100% it is, and it's and Microsoft clearly their strategies to just have enterprise customers or massive resellers that don't want to deal with an MSP that has 30 Microsoft tenants under their belt. Because yeah, why would you if you've got clients out there with 100,000 users in one tenant? That would just make it logical, logical sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Yeah, they they'd probably make more from one enterprise client than if they were to service a thousand MSPs separately, right? So yeah, you've got to really work with your partners because we position ourselves as we are the the bridge between you as an MSP and Microsoft as this huge absolute beast. So yeah, that would be my my advice there. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Okay, I think we are at time, unfortunately. We always tend to run out of time before we run out of conversation. Jake, thank you. so much for joining us. Really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been great fun. Good to see you again. And hopefully I've bagged myself another Bali invite sometime soon.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Anytime, anytime.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

And I really like that that webinar. So maybe uh shoot the details of that through and we'll make sure we put it on. Because that's that's a yeah you guys put the hard work in but it's for everybody and I think that's a that's the kind of thing we're looking for is ways to give back to the community and the industry and help help each other. And yeah Microsoft a great company and they did lots of stuff but they don't make it easy like just changing all of a sudden Microsoft Office doesn't exist anymore. Now it's called copilot that's the AI I don't know that's everything now. Well what version? What? And then I go and you just copilot and that says I can't make a Word document. I can make a Google document though. Say what is going on here?

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Like yeah it's like it's very strange yeah it's a lot it's constantly changing the naming conventions I mean Antra ID used to be had a different name before that all the the the technology's changing as well so yeah they don't make it easy but work with us and we'll make it easier for you.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Oh there you go. Yeah that's what we're here for too helping MSPs get get through the the maze of all the different bits and pieces they've got to do to make a successful business in this truck.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

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