The Money Blind Spot Even Wealth Advisors Miss

What happens to your spouse if something happens to you tomorrow? Wealth advisor Ryan Warwick thought he had it covered. Then his wife Shannon said, "I'd be drowning in the middle of the ocean with no life raft."

Ryan and Shannon get vulnerable about the dangerous myth of the "financial protector" and how even intentional couples can leave each other completely unprepared. They share the panic attack moment that sparked their Life Raft project, why entrepreneurs and high performers are especially vulnerable to this blind spot, and how bringing Shannon into the financial conversation actually gave Ryan more freedom, not less.

Whether you handle all the money or you've been "protected" from it, this episode will change how you think about marriage and finances.

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Transcript

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[gentle music] ... when it hit the fan, and I said, "Hold on. This doesn't feel safe at all. If something happens, I'm, I'm gonna be in the middle of an ocean, trying desperately to get to land. I need the life raft." Are you giving your family the same intentionality that you're giving your-business?-I'm your financial advisor, and my response was, "Well, a lot of good that will do me, buddy, if you're dead."-Never transferring knowledge, never.-Never transfer... Yeah. We can't disable-someone.-That is the perfect illustration of the inconsistency of we do all these things in our business, but we don't have them in-place at home.-If something happened to you, God forbid,-I could claim.-I have more freedom. I have more enjoyment. We can draw closer together. Welcome to the Worth Beyond Wealth-podcast.-Where net worth meets personal worth. I'm-Shannon.-I'm Ryan. We help families navigate the emotional, relational, and personal realities that-money alone can't solve.-If you've built wealth but still wonder what it all means, or how to keep your family grounded while protecting your-legacy, you're in the right place.-We sit down with experts and with you to talk identity, purpose, and connection beyond the balance sheet. Because true wealth isn't measured in dollars. It's measured in the impact we-make and the relationships we nurture.-So grab a seat.-Take a breath.-And let's redefine what it means...-To be truly wealthy together.-This is the Worth Beyond Wealth--Worth Beyond Wealth-... podcast. So, today, we're going to discuss the myth, if you will, around,"I have to be the financial protector," since some people get into this feeling of having to be the end-all, be-all, the financial protector, the one who holds all the cards, and why that can potentially be damaging to relationships as opposed to what the heart of it may be, which is caregiving. Sure. And so I f- uh, a- as we were thinking about this topic, and we've talked about this a little bit, um, we thought the, the best way to open this is to talk about the project that we've been working on.-Mm-hmm.-Um, the, the catalyst or impetus for that-project, our experience.-Mm-hmm. Uh, which part of it was this idea of, um, going it alone and, and not-for bad reasons, but, but--Right... to be, to be good, to be a protector, to take stress away, to do all the, all the right things. Uh, so do you wanna talk for a minute about, um, this work that we're doing called Life Raft? Yeah. Absolutely. So, Life Raft, I jokingly refer to it as, uh, being born from a panic attack, mine. And not a full panic attack, but a, a, a really just intense moment of realization that we were in a space where the business had grown, you know, all of these things had, had really taken off. And we have a, uh, complex... Well, I'll let you kind of describe what our investment portfolio looks like. [laughs] And, um, I just realized, okay, I, I think there's a lot here that even though I'm a- I'm aware and have been more involved maybe than a lot of spouses. You know, we've bounced ideas off of each other. You've come to me. I've, I've done proofreading for you. Um, dove in, trying to really vision. I still realize there is so much going on that I am unaware of or have a small amount of awareness around, but I don't know what, what the, the full span is, you know? And as we kind of dove into that, we realized, okay, you'd been... You are my financial advisor, but what did I say to you when you said, "Uh, well, who, who would I go to, Ryan, if something happened to you?" Your response was--Hmm-... "Well, I'm your financial advisor." And my response was, "Well, a lot of good that will do me, buddy, if you're dead." That wasn't very nice. But that's how I felt [laughs] at the moment. You're just-being honest.-Sure. So, this world of, um, vulnerability opens up, right? And there, there's a lot of strength in the vulnerability that can open up, right? And so you became vulnerable saying, "Oh, I am so sorry. I didn't realize this. Let me open this, this world up more to you." I had to become vulnerable because I had to admit,"I'm really concerned right now, and I need to learn." And so a lot of intentional discomfort came out of this process. Um, and, and, and I think one thing too, um, that was really powerful for me as we created this, what we call the Life Raft... You apologized because none of this was intentional. You weren't... Y- you thought you were doing me a service, a favor. You were blessing my life because you were, as you put it,"I was, I thought I was taking care of-you," and you were--Mm-hmm... 100%. But there was a realization for both of us that caring for someone is not, um, never asking them to have awareness, right? Never-asking... We can't--Never transferring knowledge, never. Never transferring... Yeah. We can't, we can't disable someone. That, that was what we kind of came to. And there has to be willingness for both partners to-participate.-Mm-hmm. Once the awareness is there, there's a choice. So we created this Life Raft because I said, "I feel as if I am drowning in the middle of the ocean, or at least I'm s- I'm swimming and I'm trying, and I don't know what to do. I need a life raft. What happens to me if something happens to you? I won't know what to do." And so the Life Raft was a document.Kahn [instrumental music] that create, that, that created a space for me to have knowledge, peace. And it was something that was, it was an educational tool. All of the data was there that I would need to be able to access. You know, and, and it really got nitty-gritty after a while. I realized as we went through the process, "Well, what's... How do I, how do I access that account? Oh, well, whose phone number does it go to? Oh, it goes to your phone number. Oh, is it dual authentication? Oh, whose email?" All of these things came out, and we realized how many things could potentially be very locked down to me, that access could be difficult. And so we had to step back-and start kind of unraveling that.-Yeah. And, and some things not even accessible because there isn't reporting on them or--Yes.-Um, or as you, as you said, "Okay, well, we have, uh, this, these documents. We have this plan. We have this or that.""And where is it?" "It's in this file.""Oh, i- in the office."-Yes.-"Okay, well, which office?" And, and so it just started to bring a lot of light to the, the reality that while we, and we say in, in the book,-we weren't the cobbler with no shoes.-No. And we had a plan. We did the work. Things were--Dr--... in place.-And we had had some conversations.-Some con- But those conversations-coming in--Spurts-... a, a car ride--Right... coming in a five-minute spurt, uh, as one of us is running out the door to a meeting or--Or--... driving to school or just--Yeah-... haphazardly when some issue would pop-up.-Well, I would get an email, "DocuSign." What is this? You need to tell me. What am I signing? I'm not signing--Yeah.-[laughs] You--"Just sign it."-Oh, right. That, yeah, "Just sign it." No, Just sign it. I've taken care of everything." But I didn't feel comfortable-with that.-You were, you were comfortable in the-sense that there was trust--I trusted you-... but there wasn't--What? Yeah... comfort, and, and, and then the awareness started to come--Mm-hmm-... that there wasn't, um--An understanding-... understanding, and how would-I handle this if, if I was on my own?-Yeah. And, and so that's where [laughs] this starts to... It was kind of a, a positive snowball effect. You know, we say a snow- n- usually, we say, "Oh, it was a snowball effect," and what a catastrophe, but this was positive. And, and before we go into, like, specifically diving into this, this-question today--Mm-hmm... I mean, if we, if we start to say,"Okay, then why did we go from 'let's create a document' to 'let's write a book about this'? Let's, let's call it Life Raft. Let's maybe even create a, a service-"-Mm-hmm-"... at RW to-"-Let's do a podcast, you know? [laughs]-"... to speak to this issue."-Yeah.-And, and there was just, all of the sudden, th- the world started to open up around us s--Yeah-... and, and this issue was popping up--Everywhere-... everywhere. And we even said, "Okay, if, if two people who have been intentional, um, are communicating, financial advisor..." I mean, we, we, we were not, we were not uneducated about the things going on, right? And we had awareness to a degree. But we realized if we were in a position to where we felt this uncomfortable, and we realized this was a problem or it was a potential problem, you know, then h- what were other people experiencing? That was a big question mark for us. What are other people experiencing who are not even in this position of... Even though we are concerned and we realize we have a lot of holes in the raft right now that we need to shore up, what about people who aren't coming from a position of strength-initially?-Hm. That's where we said, "Well, we kind of need to open this up." F- first and foremost, we started to see this, this reality that there's a drift.-Mm-hmm.-Right? There's a drift between spouses in these relationships. And we call it entrepreneurial relationships.-Mm-hmm.-Um, we would, uh... I, I believe that extends to anybody who is driving hard in, in life. So we, I think we see this in, in pastors. Uh, I, I think we see this in executives at large corporations. Uh, so it doesn't just have to be somebody who is the business owner. Um, there are, uh, lots and lots of situations. And, and the question becomes, are you giving your family the same intentionality-that you're giving your business?-Well, I think that, so if we can bring that back to the protector. So the, th- these are caregivers. These are doers. These are people who are used to shouldering burdens, the, kind of the do-it-all guy. A lot of times,-men. Can be women as well. And so--I think the data would still say we're something like, in, in, in my personal experience, in, in groups I've been in, e- probably 80% men are in this position of, of leader of--Leader of--... business... whatever it happens to be. Right. And so high performing. Do you think... I guess I'll just ask you. Do you think that you felt a burden to be the protector? Would you, would you not use the word burden? Would you say,-um, a responsibility to be the--Sure.-Pro- probably more responsibility--Sure... I think. And so-When there's this responsibility or burden or calling, or whatever it happens to be for the individual, and maybe it changes over time, maybe it starts as a responsibility and it turns into a burden.[laughs] Um, but do you feel that can be really isolating? Instead of inviting a partner in, instead of inviting a family in, instead of having a community around... You know, w- we were talking about in, in particular, the, the wealth or the, the workings of the finances in our home, not even long-term wealth. Just how does it work? What does... What, what are these investments? Well, if I don't know what these investments are, then I can't participate in... A- a- and we weren't... I would say in past, I'm... It was more of a, "You just handle it," but then it did start to become, even before this realization, before Life Raft, it did start to become more invitational. "Hey, I was thinking of investing in this. Would you come to this meeting with me? Hey, you know, what do you think about this?" And I remember one time, you actually sat down and said, "The next time we make an investment, why don't you decide what we're going to do?"-And I cried--Mm-hmm... because I had never been asked that question. That wasn't something that had ever... I, I, I knew that I had say or we could have a discussion, but I would always probably go to a space of... Un- unless I felt really checked and I said,"I really feel like this is something we need to stop and pause or consider." You know, unless there was a discernment there. But I would probably default to,"Okay, well, if all of the boxes are checking out and I don't have, you know, a discomfort in this, I- I'll just default to what Ryan thinks is best," because I just-trust you.-Sure.-Right?-I think you said something in- interesting there, um, that, that we shouldn't overlook. Um, and that is, in business, we create all sorts of structure-for protection.-Yeah.-We, we create, uh--It's necessary. There, there's a model out there that in entrepreneurial businesses, you have, uh, somebody who's a visionary. That visionary might come up with 10 ideas a day--Mm-hmm-... uh, or more.-[laughs]-One of them might even be good.-[laughs]-And so, that person needs somebody-working with them--Mm-hmm... in this case called an integrator--Mm-hmm-... who has the ability to discern, has the ability to say--Mm-hmm-... "That's a good idea, that's not. That's not, that's not. We gotta stay focused." Otherwise, businesses can get- Ping pong-... ping pong, stretched--Mm-hmm-... um, and ultimately damaged.-Sure. So, so I don't believe-that the family model is any different.-Yeah. And I think as we... As we've started to build up the Life Raft, and, and again, drawing back to this, this entrepreneurial-drift--Mm-hmm... this drift between spouses, this person who is constantly building and-growing--Yep... and has this, um,-again, this, this persona of d- of drive.-Right. And I am caring for you because I'm building this for, for our family. This is...-Yeah.-I'm taking care of it. You don't have to-worry about it.-Right.-Yeah.-But this person back here-doesn't always feel that.-[laughs] Nope. Right? Because--Mm-hmm-... maybe if we're not communicating, maybe this person thinks that taking care of this person... Maybe entrepreneur thinks taking care of spouse means-accumulating more wealth.-Mm-hmm. But maybe the spouse thinks getting some of their time is, is more valuable. "Maybe we, maybe we have enough. Maybe contentment is our next step." So those conversations can happen. Or, "I'm handling all of the... I'm handling all of the decisions. I'm handling all of the business. I'm handling the mundane, I'm handling the tasks, and, and you, you don't wanna know about that."-Yeah.-"I just assume that you don't wanna know-about that."-Yeah."I assume that you don't want to be bothered by that. That's nothing that-you're really interested in."-Yeah. Right? There are so many assumptions there.-Yep.-But what if that's not true and it's really creating-angst?-Well, and, and at a minimum, uncertainty-because--Yep. Yeah... they don't know. And, and we see all the time-families who have plenty--Mm-hmm... but not everybody in the family knows that. Right. So then they ask the question, "Are we okay?"-Yep.-"Are we going to be okay?" Yeah. So is there a... I, I think a part of this, and, and look, our... We, we want our [laughs] speech to be absolutely seasoned with grace because we get it.-[laughs]-I- we're not sitting here saying we've-always done it.-No.-We're--We're learning.-We're--Yeah-... grappling and grinding--Yeah... in having uncomfortable, vulnerable conversations.-Yes.-We're just... As, as you like to say,-we're purposing to encourage, right?-Yeah.-I- this is an inconsistency we see.-Yes.-It's harming families.-Yes. It's an inconsistency largely that exists because somebody says, "I'm gonna take care of this." But it, but it is, it is causing problems. Yeah. Um, and so what we had to do was recognize that that wasn't okay, and, and we did. It was not easy. It was hard work. But when it hit the fan and I said, "Hold on.[laughs] Th- this doesn't feel safe at all, to the point I... If something happens, I'm, I'm gonna be... I'm gonna be in the middle of an ocean trying desperately to get to land. I need the life raft."-Mm-hmm.-Um, so I can't be told we have roles. I can't be told, "You've got it taken care of." I have to know...... what's going on. I have to understand. A- and we have a unique situation. We have a unique situation because you are-my wealth advisor--Mm-hmm... and my husband, right? So this is your world. Of course you're going to take care of it. But then if I don't know what you've taken care of--Mm-hmm-... [laughs] I can't navigate that with you. Um, if you were gone, I couldn't navigate it for you or in, you know, in your stead. H- how was I going to do that? I knew things were in place. I knew that, um, I had life insurance policies in place. We had talked about all of these things, right? There were triggers in place with the business. There'd be buyouts. All of these things would happen. But if I didn't really, truly understand the meat of what would happen, I said, "I don't want to be in a room at a table and people are talking at me. I need to be speaking with them."-Mm-hmm.-"I need to be able to navigate that-conversation, navigate that room," right?-Mm-hmm.-I don't--And know the people in the room. I have to know the people in the room. Yes. So you talk about knowing who's in your raft. You have to know. Th- they need to be invited. You know? So who are these people in this raft that, that are with you, right? Were, were they invited by you? Did somebody else just put them in the raft for you? Are they not even in the raft and you needed that person? Yeah. All of these questions came out.-Well, yeah.-Yeah.-And if you don't know them--Do you feel safe?-And they come to help you--Yeah.-... and they truly come to help you--Yeah.-... do you, do you accept that?-Right?-Or, or do you see them as a shark?-Right. Right.-Or, or when somebody is a shark, do you--Mm-hmm... do you say, "Oh, they're here to help"? How do you know?-You don't. You don't.-Yeah.-And so--And now, and now you're on your own. And so this... Y- ... [sighs] Okay. So here's a really great analogy. We see this a lot, right, in certain age groups. The husband is so kind. He goes and he puts his wife's jacket on her, and then he opens the car door, and he helps her get in the car, shuts the door, and he drives. And he-always drives.-Mm-hmm. And then one day, he gets really sick. And then one day, he passes. And what happens? The wife doesn't know how to drive because he was taking care of-her.-Mm-hmm. He always drove. "This is my job. This is what I do. I'm taking care of you."-Mm-hmm.-Well, let's, let's shift that.-Our business.-Yeah.-Our finances.-Would you do that to your children? Would you do that? No, absolutely not. Yeah. You want them to grow. You want them to be capable. You, you want them to be able to-navigate the world.-Absolutely.-Yeah.-What happened with our newer driver in inclement weather? "Well, I'm going to go with you, kiddo, but you're driving."-Mm-hmm.-"I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna coach you, but you gotta drive 'cause you have to know how to do this when I'm not with-you."-Yeah. Um, I, I, I, I was like, "This, this really is, is-"-You feel empowered.-I- yes. Yes. Um, and i- s- and that feels safer, right? So even though I appreciate that my wealth advisor helps, m- manages the taxes, they are complex. It is not a regular W-2, here we go. It, it is complex. So I am grateful for you and our incredible CPA, who is also the CPA for the firm. So every ... There's so much knowledge there, and this is great. I have this great team. But I just needed my-team to invite me to play.-Mm-hmm. Right? I didn't wanna sit on the sidelines and be the cheerleader.-Mm-hmm.-So now I get to come in. Am I the best player on the team? No, I'm not. But if something happened to you, God forbid, I could play. Yeah. And you ask questions that might not ever enter into anyone else's mind.-Right.-Even if those questions are just to,"Oh, well, this is another point on which we need to have knowledge transfer," and we really haven't talked i- in depth about that, that idea. I mean, this is more than, um,-s- a simple balance sheet.-No, I do, I do, I do our bills, yeah. So, so tell me. Yeah. And, and that's, that was step one, and that was- And why did I have to start doing our bills?... that was a long time ago. Well, y- y- you-... R- I think it was multifaceted.-It was.-You wanted and, and I wanted.-Yeah. This was the beginning of, of saying, "You know what? You should do this. What if I'm gone? You should know how to pay the bills. You should know how to get i- " But were you good at it? That's what I'm...-Well--Yeah.-I was, I was adequate, right?-Okay. Um, it was the last thing to do, um, after I took care of everything at the-business.-Sure.-Right? Again--I mean, I know, right?-... this inconsistency existed between--How much did you love it--... business and, and family?-... when I would call you and say, "Why did my card just get denied at the grocery store?"-[laughs]-Did you love that phone call? I loved-making that phone call.-[laughs] Yeah. "Ryan, transfer money right now.""Oh, sorry. I meant to do that," or, "I-forgot about that," or--Yeah.-Yeah, yeah.-And, and I'm being vulnerable here because I think it's important for people to know how challenging it is to do what we're-asking people to do.-It's so challenging, to the point that, that we have said, "Woo, here we are. We're in a position of strength, and this is hard." We don't like it. It's uncomfortable. You know,-it's, it's, it's deliberate discomfort.-Mm-hmm. It's choosing to be vul- vulnerable, all those things, right? You know? Oh, here you go. You, quote, man in the arena. Man in the arena speech. That's what we're doing. I'm not gonna quote it 'cause I don't know it off from heart, but it's a good speech.-Sure.-Teddy Roosevelt. Okay. We're in the arena- Right... and it's uncomfortable. But we realized, wow.In the position of strength-that we're in. [sighs]-If it's hard for us--It's how--... then, then we need to be out in the-world helping other people.-And potentially nigh impossible for others,-and who are not equipped.-In particular, if, if the one who is in charge of the finances doesn't have the capability--Yes-... to transfer knowledge to the other. Or they're lacking understanding themselves.-Well, that's what I mean, yeah.-Or... Okay. Um, or but they may, they may not be a good communicator. They may not be, you-know, maybe they're struggling to be--Well, in, in time.-Yes, exactly.-It, it doesn't happen in, in one hour.-Exactly.-And so, you know- And everybody learns differently. We know this. Learning styles are different.-Yep.-Um, not everybody is a good teacher. So we realized we have to create something. We don't have to, but we would like to create something that could come alongside other people, and we could, uh, through our lived experience, come alongside and coach, encourage, help, champion along, right? We could do those things and then offer a space to start the conversation, an ability to grapple with the conversation, to get things that were fuzzy more clear, to just really dial in. And so that's what we've been really attempting to do. Well, yeah, I, I think these are-emotionally charged conversations.-They are, 100%.-Mon- money is.-Mm-hmm. I mean, that is a major aspect of, of the advice we give is-money is highly emotional.-And we have to have a n- a podcast completely around the emotion of money, the psychology of money, all of that, yes.-And so--Going back to the roots of childhood--... talking about money--Yes-... with your spouse--Yes. [laughs]-... and trying to transfer knowledge--Yes... and, and now guess what? Trying to say, "Oh, look, for the last-five, 10, 15, 20 years-"-Yeah."... when I've been doing this, wha- how in the world can you stand there and question me? How can you question... I, I've been doing a good job." It's... So it's a point of... It's a vulnerability, right?-Yeah.-It's... Wha- so does that question mean you're, you're questioning whether or not I was doing a good job?-Right? So now--Do you trust me?-So now--Yeah. Yeah... we really think this is a conversation, um, that largely, uh,-benefits from having a guide involved.-And I wanna, I wanna make something clear. A mediator, a finan- a, a wealth advisor,-but not just any.-Yeah. Because so many are just focused on a transaction.-Yes.-Here's the investment in the mutual fund we're gonna talk about, not on purpose-based conversations to help your family move forward, to prepare your spouse, to prepare your children, to-educate--Right-... to transfer knowledge, to--Exactly.-Right? There is, there is a lot here.-This relationship, yeah. And that's why we're, we're really excited about this.-Um--But I wanna say something.-Yeah.-Y- you mentioned, you know, that you have this question. Well, do you trust me? Am I having a... Did I not do a good job? Do you not feel like I've taken care of you? All of those things, right? Those can come up.-Yeah.-I would encourage people to step back in, in, in the spirit of humility, recognizing you guys are on the same team. We were and are on the same team. So when I came to you, I, I was really blown away when I saw we were, in writing the book.[laughs] And one of the things that you wrote was basically an admittance of, of... It was an apology. It was an admittance of,"I, I... Here's the most important person in my life. I failed because-I didn't, I didn't tell her."-Yeah."I didn't prepare her. I thought I had. I really did. But she was the one person that I didn't, I didn't do the job that I should have done." Yeah. That is, again, the, the perfect il- illustration of the inconsistency of we-do all these things in our business.-Right.-But we don't have them in place at home.-What changed when we invited each other into a process? When we, when you invited me, when I knocked the door down and said, "You darn well better invite me." [laughs] No. I, when, when we just had this awakening, this moment, and you had this, um, humility, and, and we, we decided to partner, um, what changed? And, and we talked about it. Empowerment?-Yeah.-More peaceful?-Well--Less burden? I, yeah, I think it, I think it... As we talk about it, it could largely be seen as, oh, that's all for you. But I've received the blessing of... Well, you've-been educated, brought in.-Mm-hmm.-Knowledge transfer.-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.-That's all wonderful but, but, or, or--But what has happened for you? Yeah. I have more freedom. I have more enjoyment. We, we can draw closer together, because in a very vital part of our life, I mean, let's-be honest.-Mm-hmm. Money touches everything. Money touches everything. And the data would still indicate that many, I don't know if we can say most today, but many divorces happen because of money problems and lack of communication around money and lack of understanding and different philosophies, which--Yeah-... again, could root back to even--Childhood-... things, you know, in attachment-theory, in, in--Absolutely... very early parts of their life that are never addressed.-Right.-So there's, there's empowerment on both sides. There's greater joy on both sides.-There is--Mm-hmm. What, what we talk about is we wanna make every decision in how does it bring us closer together?-Mm-hmm.-Not how do we... You know, Ryan's making a decision. "Okay, well, if he's doing that, then I'm gonna do this. And then, okay, well, then I'll do this." And now what are we doing? We're drifting. We want to make every decision looking toward one another and then moving forward, like roc- with, with-more rocket fuel.-And then we have fun, purposeful conversations. They're not all fun and purposeful. Some of them are tedious like- Yeah-... tax season, right?-Sure. But-But... So, so on this, on this point, um, at RW we say we help our clients build,-manage--Mm-hmm... and protect real wealth through all of life's transitions.-Mm-hmm.-Okay. So let's break that down. Now--Okay.-In the areas of investments--Mm-hmm.-We call it the four cornerstones of- of-wealth management.-Yes. Comprehensive wealth management. Investments, borrowing and liability management, non-portfolio risk management, so we're talking insurance, life insurance, disability and all these things that--Mm-hmm-... are protective, uh, to a family.-Right.-Right? And estate planning. Okay. So we have ... And- and not to mention, you know, tax and bill paying and a- all of those other things that money touches. Okay, so let's just go- go through each one in turn. Building. Okay, what if in the early-part of- of marriage, of life--Mm-hmm... we're building, but not together? What challenges does that create? What if I'm b- What if I'm the only one doing it or, you know, take- take this, uh, you know, make up a persona of a- of a couple. Uh, one is working and- and saying, "We need to save." And- and the other one says,"Why are we doing that?"-Mm-hmm.-Or, "What are we doing?" Right? And there's never, potentially never even conversation around it.-Sure.-Does that create issues? Absolutely.-There's so much disconnect.-Yeah.-I mean, I think--And potentially resentment that can come-from that too.-Sure.-An absolute misalignment.-I mean, at a basic level, let- let's just, let's just play this out. You know how much I make. So, you know, let's make up a number."Ryan, I know you make $75,000. Why can't we buy X?" "Oh, b- what do you mean? I- that's a stupid question." [laughs] Because--Right-... because we're saving for a rainy day or we're saving for retirement or we're doing ... But we never talked about it,-right? So--Right. So how do we, how do we build real wealth? Now, what's real wealth? Real wealth is not just the numbers on a page. Real wealth is what are the purposes and- and passions and conversations and the reasons that we're saving? Okay. There it is. Okay. Yes.-What's the harm?-So now how do we build real wealth without-having conversations?-Conversations.-Right?-Exactly.-It all- it all really ties together.-So then winding down, we would say real wealth really gets fed by this process of this protector realizing that protection is-actually involvement.-Mm-hmm. And then you can vision together, you can purpose together, you can bring your kids in. This can be a family on mission. This can be everybody's moving in the same direction. But that only happens when the protector isn't a team of one. Yeah. Well, so, I mean, there is this irony. So, uh, before we... I'll- I'll just jump here. There's a- there's a book. Um, it's talking about preparing your heirs. And it talks about potentially up to 70% of transitions or successions from- from one generation to the next fail.-Mm-hmm.-What if--Yeah.-It doesn't even talk about this, the transition of information-to a spouse.-Mm-hmm. Okay. So everyone's worried about transferring knowledge to their kids, but nobody's out there talking about transferring knowledge to the spouse. And here's something I realized the other day. If 80% of entrepreneurs are-men--Yep. I know where you're going with this.-And most women outlive men--Yep... there's a very, very high probability that many, many women will find themselves in charge of these balance sheets.-That's exactly right.-Right? Of- of these--It's a matriarch at that point, right?-Of- of- of these--With the family.-Yeah. And- and so--Yeah-... can they all just, "Well, it'll be okay because I've transferred knowledge to a kid." Maybe.-Maybe.-Right? But- Yeah... how- how great is that for that spouse? And now I, now I move from-my husband knew everything to now--Like, s- empowerment... now I have to talk to my son about everything--Yep-... or my daughter or whatever. It just, it doesn't create empowerment. It doesn't create flourishing, right? And so that's one of the thing. We're all, we're all about flourishing in our- in our lives, and I think flourishing in our marriages. And this is a very ... At the root of it, this is a basic-point.-It's a basic need. This is a basic-need or point--Safety, security-... on which we can, we can all--Yeah-... in our relationships--Yeah... come together more closely and- and build a- a stronger foundation and- and a better life around, um, purpose. I mean, even to the questions of, you know, some of the conversation we're having with- with families that have-huge net worths--Yeah... but are asking the question, we don't know if we can even stop.-Can we stop? Yeah. Mm-hmm.-Like, so maybe stopping is going to cause flourishing that they can't even imagine, right? But they- they can't even stop to have the-conversation.-Sure.-To- to know if that's a viable option.-Yeah.-So--We all need that... managing, you know, protecting. So the- all of these areas, you can't do it together, or you c- you can't do it without resentment, without problems-if- if both people--You can't do it together. Yeah-... aren't engaged.-100%. Yep. And so I think that's- that's a- a decent, um, stopping point for this.-Yep. Agree.-Like, the- the myth of the financial protector, you know, why go in it alone? Um ... Can damage relationships. Can damage families.-Yeah.-Can damage marriages. And- and I- and I would love to flip that around. How about you can be a financial protector-by--Yes... encouraging, by drawing in, by dragging you--Yeah-... to the appointment with--Drag you [laughs]-... the CPA, with the wealth advisor.-Yeah.-Because- Yeah. So I would encourage the spouse, whoever that may be, don't have to be dragged to anything. Don't- don't- don't be somebody who- who has to be, you know, coerced, pulled. Yeah. Don't... Engage. You have to be on the other side of that coin, right?-Mm-hmm.-Be a willing participant.-Yep.-Yeah. An active and willing participant. You don't have to be an expert. You don't have to go as far and crazy as I've gone, you know, with diving in. You don't. But be a willing and active participant.-Yeah. 100%.-Well said.-Yeah.-Great. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for being a fabulous wealth advisor.[sighs] [instrumental music plays] Thank you for listening to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast. If you liked this podcast, please like, share and subscribe. The highest compliment you could give would be sharing this with a friend. Thank you. The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or any specific security. RW Investment Management, LLC dba RW Investment Management is a registered investment advisor. Testimonials given by current clients are not in exchange for compensation. This document is solely for informational purposes. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where RWIM and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Investing involves risk and possible loss of principal capital. No advice may be rendered by RWIM unless a client service agreement is in place. RWIM is not a legal or tax advisor.