When Opportunity (or the CIA) Calls, Say Yes Early and Figure it Out Later: Lessons from Mario Orsini

Security may be high stakes, but building a career in it isn’t always a straight line.

In this episode of "Rookies to Rockstars," hosts Camille Tuutti and Amanda Ziadeh sit down with Mario Orsini, vice president of security at Nightwing, to talk about the unconventional path that led him from a criminal justice degree to a surprise CIA recruitment call and into the world of national security.

Orsini shares what he wishes he knew early on, including why the security field is “a lot smaller than you think,” and how relationships, reputation and respect can follow you for decades. He also dives into how his communications background became an unexpected advantage, and pulls back the curtain on one of the biggest misconceptions about working in and around the CIA.

In this conversation, you'll learn about:

• Why security professionals are ultimately in a customer service business,
• How to “play in the gray” while still protecting mission and compliance,
• The importance of understanding the “why” behind policies, not just the rules themselves,
• Why saying “yes” early in your career can open doors you didn’t even know existed, and
• How leadership evolves, and why even senior leaders still deal with imposter syndrome.

Orsini also reflects on the real stakes behind security work, where even small missteps can have ripple effects and shares why he prefers picking up the phone over sending “75 emails back and forth.”

And tune in to hear why, according to the motorcycle enthusiast, strong fundamentals — much like navigating with a paper map on the open road — still matter in a world full of advanced technology.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know, the folks I worked for at that period of time, like you look up to them and you're like, they have it all figured out. And you just assume like I could go do that. And then you quickly realize they don't have it all figured out. You have no idea what you're doing. And even like to this day, there's still some stuff where you make a lot of mistakes over a long period of time, you learn. But you're never going to be a 100% expert and know it all in every field because you may get to that for a day and then they change the rules again or new technology comes out.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

GovCon has a language of its own. Clearances, compliance, acquisition. And when you're new, it can feel a little bit like alphabet soup.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

And let's be honest, no one hands you a decodering. We are your hosts, Camille Tutti and Amanda Ziadett. And we're here to get real about how people actually break in, level up, and lead in government contracting.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Because not everyone grows up dreaming about GovCon. Some people study criminal justice, assume they're headed to law enforcement, and get a recruitment call from the CIA while finishing an internship in a jailhouse.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Figure it out as he went and spent the last two decades collecting lessons he's now passing on to the next generation coming up behind him.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Including why saying yes to things that don't pay off immediately is usually how the best opportunities find you.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

He's the vice president of security at Nightwing, and he has a lot to say about communication, playing in the gray, and what it actually takes to lead in this field.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Rookies to Rockstars, a short, sharp series where we ask bold, smart people one thing. What do you know now that you wish someone had told you at the start?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

We are your hosts, Amanda Zietda and Camille Tootie. And our guest today is Mario Rossini, vice president of security at Nightwing. Mario, we're so glad to have you on the show today.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Thanks for the invite.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Mario, you're leading security at a moment where threats move really fast, change constantly, and have real consequences. But I want to rewind for a second because you grew up in a family of motorcycle enthusiasts and you host motorcycling podcasts, and you've written books about it, and you've ridden in nearly every state. So, how does someone with a background like that end up in security?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

That is a great question. And honestly, I don't get asked that too often. So I went to undergrad at Marshall University and I studied criminal justice. And I honestly thought I was going to end up working in like some sort of law enforcement field. My roommate, when we were in college, he works for the FBI now. And I did not know that the field of security that I work in even existed. We had a family friend reach out to me and I had no idea who that guy worked for. And then come to find out he worked for the CIA and I got recruited for logistics. And I don't know if I made the right decision or not, but I told him I was like, I don't want to work in logistics. Like I have a criminal justice degree. And he's like, Well, we have security. Do you want to work in security? And I was like, Yeah, sure. So um, I don't know. Like, I sometimes look back and go, what if I would have gotten into logistics? What would have ended up? I have no idea, but uh I'm pretty happy with choosing security and ended up where I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

So serendipitously, that kind of happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, just so casually falling into the CIA. CIA.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Like, I used to joke when I got the phone call, and I think at the time I was intern, I was finishing up my internship, and I was actually in a uh jailhouse at the time. I was doing that part of my internship, and I get a call and I'm like, is that a joke? And they're like, No, we're gonna be reaching out to you, and they did.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Cool. So, what do you wish someone had told you in the beginning about the security field that you know now?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

I think one of the big things is, and they tell you this, but when you're young, you don't really listen because everything's new and everything seems big. It's a lot smaller than what you think it is. Because you look across the board and you see all these big giant companies and these large agencies, and you just assume like you know, these people I'm never gonna run into again. When really I've been crossing the paths with the same people the last 20 years, and what's really interesting is folks that used to be like heads of security for for large agencies that I would hear speak at conferences and stuff, like we're sitting at the same table now, so I'm glad I was nice and respectful to them back then because I've been working with these same folks for the last decade, two decades at this point.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

You also have a degree in communications, which is not what most people picture when they think about security and leadership. How does that show up in your everyday work?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I mean, it's one of the things I'm glad I went back and got a master's in communications. It's something, well, first off, I can tell you the way it shows out. I mean, you got the folks listening to this don't know that we were joking earlier they sent a babysitter from our communications department to make sure I behave myself. But I actually work a lot with our communications department. They've sent me out and and allowed me to do things, be a company spokesperson, those sorts of things that normally I probably wouldn't have had the opportunity for. But in the day-to-day, we have to comply with a lot of different regulations and policies, and I have to get these out across the organization. So understanding how to communicate with a large organization that's going out to the entire population versus communicating with a government customer versus communicating with the executives, it's all different. Can you imagine 10 years ago, all of us seeing each other on a video screen together recording a podcast? Like that didn't even exist. So you have all these new types of communication methods that are out there and learning how to use those properly. Like, I'll be the first to admit, I hate Teams and instant messages right now. Like those bother me because it seems like the barrier to like get a hold of someone is so low. But it's being able to get an effective message out to folks and understanding what the second and third order things are gonna be. Like, if you put something out, what are their next two, three questions gonna be? And going ahead and having those answered ahead of time to one, make it easier on yourself, but two, make it easier on them too, because you you're here to support them.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

I mean, if you cannot communicate, how are you gonna be a good leader? You have to be an efficient communicator.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

100%. And you also need to learn the you're not gonna be able to use the same communication style with every single person. You're gonna have to change it. Now, you might have you know five people that report to you, and for four of them, you can communicate with them one way, but you might have an outlier, and you're like, okay, that style doesn't work with them. So you need to change up your style to work for them.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

What kind of communicator would you say you are?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Um I actually prefer face-to-face when I can have it. I prefer to pick up the telephone or have a conversation versus I hate going back with like 75 emails back and forth. So my team will tell you I'm more apt to pick up the phone and call them and work something out. But if I can use my voice and communicate verbally, I much prefer that. I like the little bit more interpersonal type versus just sending out blanket emails.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

There are truly a thousand ways to communicate with people at work these days. Chat, email, call, voicemail. When do you use which medium for which reason?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, even just within like, you know, an application like Teams, like there's individual chat, there's group chats, there's video calls. You can even, I mean, you can do it on your laptop, you can do it on your iPad, you can do it on your iPhone. Like there, there's all these different ways, and that's just one. And then you still have your email and your text messages and your phone calls, and then you have all those devices to check all the time, too. So, or at least applications to look at.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Exhausting. Well, unlike communications, which is very you know outward-facing, security is one of those fields where if you're doing your job right, nobody really notices. So, was there a moment early on in your career when you realized just how high the stakes were?

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yeah, and I don't want to get into too much detail on some of them, but you know, ultimately at the end of the day, we have a couple of things we need to do. I mean, for my organization, we need to protect company information and our employees, but ultimately at the end of the day, we're here to support national security. And the stakes are really high. I won't get into specific examples, but you know, when you walk into the headquarters there at the CIA building, there's a bunch of stars up on the wall. And, you know, those people gave the ultimate sacrifice. And sometimes you get lost in, you know, there's a lot of stuff we do that's administrative, like you're processing paperwork. But if we don't do our job properly, it can have a ripple effect down the line where people's lives are at risk. So it's the ultimate when it comes to the stakes. But sometimes just because you're coming in and doing your job every day, sometimes you lose that until some big incident happens, and then you get that immediate reminder.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

We always ask this because people always remember the hard lessons. So, what's a mistake you made early on that ended up shaping how you lead today, whether it was at the CIA or another?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

I mean, I can give an actual example. It wasn't that big a mistake, though. It was just kind of funny. So I used to work in clearance division back in the day. That's where I started, and I processed crossovers, meaning you have a clearance one place and through reciprocity you want to take it somewhere else. And someone had actually entered the wrong polygraph information in there. But I should have known that that agency did not give that level of polygraph, and I went ahead and granted the clearance anyway. So then I had the uh the chief of the branch in my office later that day uh explaining to me the mistake I made. So I learned uh to pay more attention and not try to work so fast, but be more effective. But I think the biggest I don't want to call it a mistake. I like to give folks chances. So I always refer to it as like an opportunity. Now it could be a good opportunity if it works out. If it doesn't work out, it's not such a great opportunity for them. But I like to give folks opportunities to succeed. It doesn't always work out. Sometimes you go, hey, this is a great idea. I'm gonna give them this chance, they're gonna succeed. This is and it doesn't work out. But I haven't let that stop me from giving the next person the chance. And honestly, maybe it's just a short memory thing. I don't tend to remember the ones that don't work out so well because they find their niche, but the ones that do work out, man, it's awesome to look back and go, man, that guy or that guy or that girl five years ago, like they were working at this level, and look how much they've grown since then because they got the chance.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Mario, you're responsible for protecting people, assets, and information, and that's a lot of trust. How has your definition of leadership changed since your rookie days?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah, a lot. I mean, I got the opportunity to manage when I was pretty young. I think I was like 24 and got the shot at it. In fact, like when I when I left the government to go contract, or even the the branch chief was like, we don't want to lose you, but you're not gonna get the opportunity to manage here for another 10 years. So, you know, the folks I worked for at that period of time, like you look up to them and you're like, they have it all figured out, and you just assume like I could go do that, and then you quickly realize they don't have it all figured out, you have no idea what you're doing, and even like to this day, there's still some stuff where you make a lot of mistakes over a long period of time, you learn, but you're never gonna be a 100% expert and know it all in every field because you may get to that for a day and then they change the rules again or new technology comes out, so you're constantly learning, and I think it's okay to not actually have the answer to everything, but you know, you realize I mean, at least for me, I want to have a bunch of people on my team that are smarter than I am, as opposed to wanting to be the smartest person on the team. It that doesn't matter to me. I want to have the right subject matter experts. But now looking back, like I mentioned at the beginning of this, some of these folks that used to present at these things that now we're kind of peers at this point, like even they still don't have it all figured out. But we do have a great community in security, and that is one of the things that I think separates us from some of the other jobs out there. The security departments, the different companies, different ages, we're not competitive. We're all trying to do the same thing, which is protect national security, protect the mission. So you've got a lot of great peers out there you can rely on, but I guess to circle back, like it's okay not to know everything. You're never going to.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

When you got to the agency, did you ever have a sense of imposter syndrome?

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I'll tell you this. I still have that right now. Some of my closer teams heard me say this because Nightwing's been a company now for a couple of years. Now we kind of operated independently uh within a larger company previously, but I wasn't responsible for everything. And then all of a sudden, like overnight, it just happened. My smaller teams heard me say this where I'm just like, I don't know what I'm doing. I've never run security for an entire company before. And you still kind of feel that way, even though nothing's broken, everything's running smoothly, but still you look back and you're I don't know how I got here, but it seems to be going okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Amanda and I have not interviewed one person who didn't say that they had that at some point in their life. We're all just assuming that everybody knows what they're doing, but nobody knows. We're just trying to do our best and kind of go with the flow and then figure things out.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah, I think you just said the right thing. Everybody's trying to do their best. And as long as you're trying to do your best and you're making decisions for the right reason, I think it's going to work out most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Given the opportunity to manage at 24 seems a little bit unusual, but would you recommend that? If given the opportunity, would you recommend people kind of grab onto that and learn early?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah, I would because throughout my career, like I got the opportunity to manage for a few years and I moved on to another position, and then I was in like an individual contributor role for a short period of time. And then quickly they were like, hey, you've managed before, we're giving you this team. And then I left there and I went to another role. And I was again, I was an individual contributor. I was like, Man, this is awesome. And about a year and a half later, it was like, Hey, this thing's opened up, you've managed before. Like, so it opens up the door, but fortunately it was at a lower level. So if I failed miserably, it probably wouldn't have like ruined things. It might have not been great for me. But learning how to manage personalities, manage workload, manage a team, I think is an invaluable skill. And even if you're like, I don't want to manage a large team later on, just having that skill is going to help you in an individual contributor role or really any sort of role in your career.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Well, Camila and I did some of our own background checking. And uh we read in a profile that you had once said some parts of security are black and white, but the most successful security officers are those who know how to operate in the gray. So tell us a little bit about what that gray means.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

I have to be careful how I say this. There are actual rules you have to follow. And then sometimes there's guidelines. And the guidelines are where you can get creative. And ultimately at the end of the day, you have to pass the test of am I putting anything at risk? If I do this, am I risking national security or am I risking company security or anything? If the answer is yes, then you really shouldn't be doing it. I mean, some of it is a risk-based approach. You're not gonna be able to protect everything all the time. But at least every place I've been, or if someone comes in from a new company, they're like, I'm used to security telling me no. I don't want to be the no police. I don't want to have the no answer. Sometimes they'll come in and ask for something, and it's like, yeah, I can't do that. So I'm notorious for like, what are you trying to accomplish? And if I know what you're trying to accomplish, then there's likely a path for us to get you there, staying within the guidelines and doing everything we need to do to keep everyone compliant. That's what makes it kind of fun for me because then you're in a problem-solving thing. You're not in a, we're looking at the book, book says no, move on to the next thing. We are given some leeway to make some decisions. And my thing, yeah, that is a quote of mine, is like, I like to play in the gray. And it's fun because you have leaders come to you, and like, I need to do this. And you're like, hmm, let me think about that for a little bit. And you come up with a solution. Now, I will be honest, sometimes I pick up the phone and I call the customer with the solution and go, You guys okay if I do this? And they're like, Yeah, we're okay, we're okay with that. That's a good like, so I mean, but there's some back and forth because ultimately we're trying to accomplish the mission while staying compliant and keeping everything safe and protected. And I hate when someone comes to me and like, we asked and we were given no. And I'm like, then I will tell you, sometimes the answer is gonna be no. Like we exhaust all options, and there's like, yeah, that's just not gonna happen. But we've gotten creative with some stuff and come up with some solutions because I always look at it this way: you have internal customers and external customers. Your internal customers are like your other, you know, in our case, night wing employees or maybe even subcontractors we work with. Then you have your external customers, which is either a government customer or whoever external. And if you can find a way to accomplish what they both want to accomplish within the rules, everyone's happy.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

It makes me think of the joke that CIO is really CI no. So they always say no. Um so when you look at the next generation of professionals who are entering the security field, what is something that you think that they should embrace or maybe let go of to really grow?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

One of the things that I've noticed is it used to be you would go to folks that like if you didn't know the answer or something, you'd go to a more senior person or whatever and ask the answer. Well, now we all walk around with cell phones and iPads and everything, and we have access to information. You can go look up the answer. But just because you have access to the answer or you know what the answer is, you still need to understand the why. And I think that's what gets lost sometimes. Like, well, I can just look it up in the manual. I have access to it. Yeah, but do you understand the why? You need to understand what your parameters are and what they actually mean, so then you can get creative and do these things. Otherwise, we end up back at where we were before where it's just like, well, the book says no, so you can't do it. So you can't just rely on technology and having access to everything, and I can look it up. That's cool, but you still need to be able to creatively think to solve problems. And I think a lot of the places we work can't take a cell phone into anyway, so you're not really gonna have that to help you. So you definitely need to uh to be able to think you know quickly and creatively.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yeah, be quick on your feet. Can't ask ChatGPT to solve a national security problem for you.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

It's created a lot of problems for me and kept my staff gamefully employed because we still have folks that are uploading information into Chat GPT, and I get it because it just becomes a tool that's available, and we've had to kind of rope that in a little bit. And also I've noticed I get a lot of emails that I can tell are written by ChatGPT.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yep, we're there with you.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah. Off the record, you know, Amanda and I are editing a lot of AI-generated content that is sent to us by people. And it it starts sounding the same. I can immediately spot it.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

First off, I mean, going back to communication, could you imagine like if you're trying to effectively communicate with someone by diming yourself out immediately that I didn't even take the time to write this myself? And in most cases, I definitely haven't taken the time to proofread it. You've kind of lost all credibility before you even got started.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

If you cannot write an email without outsourcing it, then you're in really in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

100% agree.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

That just must be so challenging, though, in today's security landscape with all these new tools and things popping up. I mean, keeping track of it all and then having to address it all.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah, and you've got new devices coming out all the time and stuff that you wouldn't even thought about, you know, a few years ago. I mean, some of them are just like simple things that we can't take into the classified areas, like for the most part, you know, you can take your key fob in if it's like one of the I'll call it like a dumb key fob. It's got like open clothes on it. But some of them now, like they have GPS tracking on them and they do way more things. It's almost like your own little mini smartphone. And then in some cases, I mean, we've even had to pivot some where it's like, hey, you might have an area where you just have to leave your smartphone in your car, like you can't even bring it into the building. Well, you know, some of the EVs now, like that is your key. So you can't leave your smartphone in your car. So you're constantly having to adjust and react to the latest and greatest technology to keep it out of our spaces, or at least keep it come up with mitigations to make it okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Or even your everybody's wearing a smartwatch these things.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I work in security and I wear one. So every time I walk into a space, the thing's coming off. So I'm not getting credit for all of my steps.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, and also you feel so naked when you don't have your watch. I'm like, where is it? Like I take it off for a couple of minutes, charge it, or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

We have like these little cubbies outside of some of the areas. And it used to be, you know, back in the day, you'd see like a BlackBerry, or maybe you'd see a two-way page, or now it's like AirPods, iPhone, smartwatch. It's everything. You see all sorts of devices sitting out there.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

All right. So, what is the most rookie mistake that you see people make in security now sitting where you sit, the leadership position?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

I think this probably goes for more than just security, but I think a lot of it comes down to people forget, especially early on, you're in a customer service business, is essentially what we're in. I mean, yes, can I make rulings on things and whether it's violations? Yeah, but that's not what most of my job is. My job is here to empower the business and empower the mission. And I think that gets lost sometimes because Probably even going to like rookie cops and stuff like that. Like we've given you some authority now, but you need to harness that in and only yield it when you truly need to. And just remember, you're here to support your internal and external customers. You're here to support the mission. And you are in a customer service business. So you should greet people with a smile. You should be helpful. You should be friendly, but you should also be stern, you know, when you need to correct some sort of behavior or you need to provide information to them to keep them compliant. And uh that usually doesn't last too long, but it's like when you first give somebody some additional access, they're like, oh, I finally have, and then yeah, you just gotta rein them in a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

I'm sure when you were working at the CIA, I'm sure that your friends and family had many misconceptions about your role. But I want to ask about what is the most common misconception about your role when you share with people what you do, like you know, I work in security. What is that one thing that they think that you're doing that you're not?

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah, so it kind of depends on where my role was at the time. But I mean, for the most part, like they think my job, like you must see the coolest things all day. And the answer is I really don't. And as I've worked my way up through my career, I've even made the joke, like, I don't even really do security work anymore. Like now I manage an organization. I still get my hands dirty and get to go in and do some of the stuff, but when you start to explain to them what you can explain, like what you do, a lot of it's administrative stuff. We're not actually out in the field in most cases doing some of the operational things, which are cool, and I am aware of some of them. I can't talk to anybody about those specifics. But when they start to hear about it, they're like, well, that sounds kind of boring. And maybe I'm just doing a good job of explaining it, so it is boring, and they don't ask me any more questions, but it's not as glamorous as a lot of folks think it is. Because if you go watch the movies, right, yeah, it looks awesome. And we likely have some people that do some stuff like they do in the movies, but that's not what I get to do.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

You don't have like a holographic workstation at cool, the coolest tech. I have access to cool tech.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

I mean, so there's been some times where I've been invited into some spaces that I've seen some really cool stuff, and I'm like, oh crap, that wasn't just in the movies. Like, this thing does exist. Cool, but no, we don't have access to a whole lot of that stuff. And it's funny to me, I won't name the agency, but there's one of them we work with that we were still faxing them things up until like some of them we still are like we are literally sending a fax, so don't think we have the latest and greatest everything, at least in security.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Fax?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I don't think I've even seen a fax machine in your installed in one of my guys' office because I won't name the agency. He's like, they'll only take a fax. And I was like, uh, okay. Still to this day.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

We'll only take care of your pigeon. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Wow. Yeah, that they're super interesting. So we have to ask, give us uh your corniest, cheesiest line you can comparing being out on the open road to security.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Man, we could have given you this one earlier to think about, but on your I mean, I don't know if this is corny or not, but an atlas or a map still works probably as well or better than the latest GPS device. As long as you have fundamentals, they're always gonna work. And the great thing about fundamentals is they don't break, where the latest tech device might. You learn to read that map and you learn to use it, it's never gonna break on you. Battery's not gonna go dead, none of that stuff. Same thing on the security side. We may have like some really cool access control stuff and all that, but if you can't function a regular lock when that stuff breaks, it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Thanks. I've just made that one up off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Look at you thinking on your feet.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

It's like communications degree. That's why I practice what I preach. All right, so before we wrap up, if you could go back and talk to Rookie Mario, the version that just started out, what would you tell him?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Say yes a lot, especially early on in your career. If you're doing a good job, they're gonna ask you to do more and more. And what you shouldn't do is ask, well, if I do this, like what do I get in return? Because it's not always gonna be a financial incentive. You're gonna learn something. And my team's heard me tell this story before. So prior company I worked at, manager came to me and was like, Hey, you've done a little bit of proposal stuff, right? And I was like, Yeah, I've helped out here and there. He's like, We need somebody to go in and assist on this. So I went in and wrote a volume for security, and then I started getting tapped to do it all the time. And one of my employees was like, Why are you doing this? And I went, they asked me to do it. It's a new skill that I can develop. And he was like, Were they paying you anymore? No. Fast forward three or four years, there was a position that opened up, which ultimately ended up leading to this. And the only reason I got interviewed was because I had one bullet point on there that said proposal support. They were looking for someone with a security background that knew how to do it. And then that came into this job. So just say yes. Yeah, you're gonna get to the point where then you learn like what I like to do, what I don't like to do. And if you get to a point where I don't I don't want to do this, fine. But early on, just say yes a lot. Even if you never use that skill again, it's okay. You still learn something. But then again, it might lead you down the path that you know you got to somewhere that you would have never gotten before had you said no.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

I agree so much with that because when I mentor younger people, especially those going into journalism, I always tell them, say yes. I don't care how uncomfortable you are with that, you're gonna grow. And you might get an amazing opportunity. And if you say no, you'll never see what comes out of that. And I know that when I said yes to things like a stretch role or stretch project or opportunity, I was scared to death. But then I figured it out. Like you will figure it out if you can turn to your superiors, you can turn to peers, you can turn to colleagues and get help. And people are so willing to help you if you kind of at least if you're curious and you're willing to kind of show what you know that you're willing to take on something new.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

I fully agree with you. And we've got some folks on my current team that we've offered them like new things, and they just jump on it and they go kill it. And it's awesome. And then when something comes along later, you're like, hey, there's a promotion opportunity or whatever. Like those are the folks you're gonna remember. And then you'll have people that are like, well, what do I get out of it? And it's like, okay, well, we've already started off on the wrong foot here. Like you said, Camille, like it's scary when you take on something new, but you're right, people are willing to help. There's someone out there that's gonna lend a hand, and chances are multiple because especially if you're working in an organization, we don't want anyone to fail. So you're gonna have the support of everybody to back you up. So take the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Awesome. Well, that's a fantastic note to end on. Mario, thanks so much for joining us and sharing your perspective. This has been a really fun and informative conversation. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Thank you guys. I appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Thank you. Thanks for listening to Rookies to Rockstars. GovCon doesn't come with a playbook, but these stories might be the next best thing. Follow the show, share it with someone still figuring it out, and connect with us on LinkedIn. We'd love to hear from you.