Episode 37: FAFO Parenting for Dads - Natural Consequences vs Gentle Parenting

Episode 37: FAFO Parenting for Dads - Natural Consequences vs Gentle Parenting

As dads, how do we raise strong, respectful, emotionally aware kids without becoming too controlling… or too passive?

In this episode, Andrew, Jeff, Ryan, and Brian have a real, unfiltered conversation about:

• Gentle parenting and emotional intelligence
• Natural consequences and accountability
• Why kids need discomfort to grow
• Discipline vs. punishment
• Participation trophies and resilience
• Teaching responsibility without shame
• Letting kids fail safely
• Preparing children for the real world
• The importance of balance in fatherhood 

This isn’t a parenting expert lecture. It’s four dads talking honestly about modern parenting, discipline, emotional regulation, boundaries, consequences, and what it actually means to raise capable kids in today’s world.

If you’re a father trying to navigate parenting styles, raise resilient children, build stronger family relationships, and become a more intentional dad, this conversation is for you.

The Dad Edit Podcast is a podcast for fathers focused on self-improvement, parenting, masculinity, mental health, relationships, and real conversations about modern fatherhood.

Join us for our monthly Dad Walks in London, Ontario, every third Saturday at 11AM at Kiwanis Park.

Follow, rate, and share the podcast if these conversations resonate with you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Amen. Before we jump in, if this podcast has ever helped you think more clearly, respond more calmly, or feel less alone in the quiet parts of fatherhood, hit that follow on Spotify or Apple. Leave a review if these conversations have resonated with you. If you're watching on YouTube, like, comment, and subscribe. We host a monthly dad walk for fathers in the London, Ontario area. It's going to take place every third Saturday at 11 a.m. in Kawanis Park. We meet at the Kawanis Skate Park. It's where fathers get together. We walk, we talk, we connect. There's no pressure, no speeches, just real conversations. Watch our Instagram at the dad edit podcast for updates on the next dad walk. All right, let's get into it. Faffo parenting or fuck around and find out parenting for dads. Fuck around. Natural consequences versus gentle parenting. There's a parenting debate happening right now that a lot of dads are paying attention to. On one side, you hear about this gentle parenting, patience, emotional awareness, helping children understand their behavior. And on the other side of it, there's a phrase that's exploding right now called buck around and find out parenting or faffle parenting. It's probably how I'll reference the rest of this. Yeah. This basically means letting your kids experience the natural consequences of their choices, not rescuing them, not shielding them from every mistake, just letting life teach them lessons. But for most dads, the real question isn't about which philosophy wins, it's about how to raise responsible kids without becoming too controlling or too passive. In this episode, I want us to talk about the natural consequences versus gentle parenting, where each approach works, where each approach fails, and how fathers can teach responsibility without turning parenting into constant conflict. Because discipline isn't just about punishment, it's about preparing kids for the real world. Yep. So gentle parenting, uh, I'll start there, was definitely something that I saw a lot in my 20s as like the big thing. Yep. Don't tell your kids no. Redirect them. Uh don't raise your voice. Don't give them shit. You always see those I seek them now, those funny clips of like what it's like gentle parenting my kids. Hey, please don't do that. Then what actually works? Hey, get the fuck off the couch. Those those differences, right? The extremes. Very extreme. When people hear gentle parenting or faffle parenting, what do you guys picture? What do you picture with gentle parenting?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Like just sheltered kind of like not even like allowing them to push boundaries or um like fuck, I don't know. Like keeping them in a little bit of a bubble, you know, you're down a thing, and and avoiding risky play and avoiding that kind of stuff, and being very delicate with oh, how we're feeling, which is great, but also like if that person's treating you poorly, like you kind of gotta let them know. I don't know, it's it's a bit of a bubble.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

This is it's man, as I'm entering parenting right now, it's a difficult thing trying to find, you know, uh what parenting philosophy I want to fall into. There's like the conceptual side of how I see parenting, and then there's like the things that are actually happening. Yep. And um, sometimes those don't align. But this, like, there's a level of gentle parenting that I want to leverage, like I really want my kid to be able to articulate his emotions. Yes. Like when he he falls down, like what happened? Why did that rather than the like you're okay, get up, come on, let's fucking go. Um, which I feel like we were all probably raised with is the like, hey buddy, like what happened? Why, why are you crying? What how did you fall down? How do we avoid that? Um, I don't know if that's the right approach, yeah. I know that that's the approach that I've been taking. For you, Brian, what what do you hear when you or what do you think of when you hear gentle parenting?

SPEAKER_03 4:59

I think spoiled. I'm gonna be straight up. Spare not the rod, my friend. You know what I'm saying? Now, there's a fine line between abuse and discipline. And I'm gonna say the way I was raised, I feel like I was on the spectrum of real, real close to abuse. But I do have the understanding that my mom was a single parent and she did what she had to do to raise a son in this world, this society, especially me being a black son, you know what I'm saying? So she did what she had to do.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Oh sure, how to help you with that?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Oh, what no help is needed, no help is needed. Robots toppy. Chimed in on that one for someone.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Oh, okay. But um, for me, um growing up, I said to myself that I would never take that route of just beating my kids and you seen and not heard. So I just think there's a there's a there's a healthy balance, but I feel when you go come and maybe I'm being biased because of the way I was raised and the generation I'm in, um, I feel the gentle parroting is just a cop-out. Um, you're spoiling your child. Uh you're you're sparing them from having to deal with emotions that they'll all deal with at some point in their life, regardless if you like it or not. So uh okay, tell me how you feel, or okay, time out. There's a don't get me wrong, there's a time and place for everything. But man, you your purpose as a parent is to raise an individual to be a proper addition to society, and to do that, there has to be a line drawn. There has to be some sort of discipline other than soft words. Yeah, there's a time and place for everything. Link false. Okay. Is it depends on the situation? Did he just fucking fall down a few steps? Was he rushing and okay, let's talk about it? Or did he just stumble on a shoelace? All right, get back up, let's do this. You're good. So it's a time and place for everything.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Sometimes you'll notice that if you react to a fall, that's when the water works start. But if you if you don't, if they see that you didn't notice what happened, then it they might brush it off, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Bro, I've seen that so many times with him now, like especially when we're at a family thing, and uh he hits his head. That boy hits his head off every big head. He hits his head, and everyone in the room goes, Oh, you okay? And then he looks up and goes, Oh, the whole room thought I'm not okay, I must not be okay. And he starts balling. Whereas he hits his head, and if I wasn't fully paying attention, I look over, he's not crying, he's good. Yeah, yeah, I mean, then he doesn't cry. But if I it that's such it's so interesting how much they take cues from you, yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Does a tree make noise when it falls in the woods? Yeah, you don't also want them to be entitled, right? Like thinking that you know and you want them to be prepared for the world because it it can be a rough place out there, so you don't want to shelter too much, like uh my for example, like my sister has her kids up in like kind of a small remote town, and but we my kids are growing up in the big city, yeah. So it's a little different, it's a little tougher here than it is there, and I worry that if they do end up moving to a big town one day, they they wouldn't be into it. Like I grew up in a small town, and London's big enough for me. Toronto's massive, right? And big cities like kind of overwhelm me. Stress me out. Well, I do okay, but um, but my my fiance, she's from a big city, and like small town might be a little boring for her, so it's uh I don't know, you don't want to shelter too much in that small bubble.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Come on, man. Like, there's gonna be a point where you may be walking in Walmart with Link. And he has a tenter temper tantrum. Are you is this the moment you're gonna choose to Link? Get up off the floor. Listen, this is not the time or place. Or is it gonna be like, hey, Link, you know better. Get up off the floor right now before we have to go to the car.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

It's the res it's like you wanna teach him respect for the situation, the moment, and you wanna teach them that there's a line that you cross where I'm gonna have to check you, I'm gonna have to fucking you're gonna find out. It's a healthy balance, bro, and nothing's scripted, everything is real life. So you just have to have that healthy balance because if you don't have that healthy balance, these kids will fucking take advantage.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah, there's not one playbook that works, and not one playbook that works for every kid. You might have two kids and and different tactics were for different kids, and the pendulum does swing both ways, so like maybe back in the day it was a uh do what I say kind of don't ask questions, and then the pendulum swung to the sodden parenting too far. There's like you know, there's time's in place, like you said, yeah, I mean, for every tactic, but you you have your arsenal of tools and you choose strategically when to use what tool.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

I like that, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

I like that. You don't all have a toolbox full of like the same same wrench, right? Well, 100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I think I think it's you know, when I we talked previously in an episode about me trying to protect my kid from pain, and I think sometimes gentle parenting stems from that insecurity of I don't want my kid to feel left out, you know, so everyone gets a fucking ribbon. I don't want my kid to you know feel uh what a loss feels like, so he needs to know that you know your effort is all that matters. But I think that there has to be winners and losers that you life isn't fair. And if you grow up, we see it with a lot of folks, you know, in the workplace that grew up with everyone's equal, uh uh uh for effort, and we should all be given the same, we should all be given the same opportunities, but not everyone will succeed in those opportunities. That's fucking okay. You have strengths that I don't have, you have strengths that I don't have. We are all different people. We have areas where we can relate and and and and come together on, but we all are different, we're fucking different. Everyone is different, no one is truly unique and special. We we all have different qualities and and and weaknesses, and I think it's important that our kids learn that. And I think that the whole fuck around and find out movement is centered around that, is letting your kid go out and experience that sometimes life sucks. I'll probably be my kid's biggest bully because rage baiting him was just fun as hell, knocking him over and stealing his stuff and just getting him to learn how to deal with that is fun, man. And because he's my kid, so I can pick on him. Yeah, so makes me feel big.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Oh well, one day he's gonna be bigger than you, brother. He's already half the size of you, and he's only like a year you and now before you can, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

But I think we I think gentle parenting swung, like you said, Jeff, way too far. Yep, with the pendulum. And it probably my early 20s is when it was about every kid should get a medal at Jack and Field, and every kid should get this ribbon, and there's participation medals, and I think we need to do away with that shit. Honestly, I think it's great. You showed up, you saw it through to the end. Good job, buddy. Next time we're gonna work harder so that we can if you want to achieve number one, there's a gap, right? They're showing up and doing participating, awesome, cool. But if you want to win, there are things that you need to do, right? There are steps that you need to take. You can't just come in and like half ass this and in and get a gold medal. You have to put in the work, yeah. Um I think in, I mean, this is just my interpretation of of the concept of it. Um when you guys hear about FAFO parenting, what do you think about it? Like that, that letting natural consequences run their course.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

I agree and I disagree. Once again, the healthy balance, like you know, you're yeah, how would I say this? Like you're dealing with a human being, man. And um there has to be consequences, has to be a line in the sand, and because when it comes to society and you're old enough now, there are laws, rules, you know, that are there. If if you're being raised to think that you know there's no line in the sand, and I'm always right, I always get a sticker, or I always have an opinion. Oh, you'll get eaten up in this fucking world, bro. You always have an opinion, it just doesn't always fucking matter. And that's the reality of the fact, yeah, you know, and there's a time and place for an opinion, you know. Like if you're gentle and this is how you raise them, oh, you always have a voice. When you get pulled over and the fucking cop says, Give me your fucking license, oh well, why? Or you start getting into it because you have such a great no, there's a time and place for everything. I understood that real quick growing up. Like, you know what? That being seen and not heard is a real thing in society, bro. Like, and I ain't gonna get butt fuck hurt that I gotta keep quiet at this situation because the situation is different. So, like, balance, you don't want to be fuck around to find out and making your child feel like you fucking control everything, and that's what it is. Like, you you'll you'll it'll fuck their whole being, their whole understanding of what life's really about, right? There's a there's a there's a balance, you don't want to be abusive, you don't want to be too abusive.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, and you don't want to allow them to get into like an odd spot, like maybe you notice that one one person in their group of ten is kind of going down a bad path, and uh you don't really want them to like say they're getting into drugs or alcohol, smoking a little pot or some shit. I don't know, like maybe a little weed, you know, yeah. You you've done it, yeah. Uh but you don't want you know, it leads to other areas, maybe. I don't know. But um but then on the other hand, like you you don't want to shelter them and prevent them from experiencing like like say you notice them with a new partner, girlfriend, boyfriend in high school, grade nine. I'm in so in love, I'm gonna be with this person forever. Maybe they will. Who knows? But but you notice that they you know, out of your experience, they might not be long-term good for each other, but you don't want to prevent them from having that full experience of infatuation, heartbreak, recovery. Like that could be a big lesson for them. That you don't want to shelter them too much from the you know, the gentle side of things. I mean, that's where the fuck around and find it. Like they they went all in on this high school relationship and it broke their heart. You're there for them at the end of it, but they learned they had the experience, they felt all the feelings in between. That's that's what I think of like when it's like fuck around and find it, like let them live the whole experience and be there when you're when they need, but if it's something like drugs, like you're able to step in and not allow them to find out and fuck around. I don't know, like no, you're absolutely finding like say a weapon in their school bag, you're gonna be like, what the fuck is this? You're not gonna let them figure that one out on their own. You're gonna be you and you're not gonna be gentle about it either. You're gonna be like, let's this that shit's not fucking making the decision, but but there's you know, every situation and every child and every be smart about how you use the tools, yeah. And don't you don't need to be all or nothing fuck around and find out, you don't need to be a full gentle, but you be there when they need gentle, yeah. Be tough when they need tough. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

As a fo I was as a father, for me, I had to learn how to maneuver the situations. There's a time and place there for everything. I'll say that again in this episode. And I don't mind being disciplinary, but we like I said in other episodes, we kept it consistent. There's a time for okay, I'm gonna discipline and then I'll allow you to express. But I had to discipline first, so you know that that line's drawn. This is wrong, that's right. Doesn't mean just because I said this is wrong, I'm not gonna come to you afterwards and have a conversation to analyze why this was going too far. Balance, just like anything else in life, fucking balance.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah, I did not want I think it's hard because there's you know, we live in an age where there's so much access to information. There's, you know, when I'm looking at parenting and taking in information and subscribing to content, there's you're presented with the camp. So there's the camp of gentle parenting, and it's an extreme side of it. Then there's a camp of faffful parenting, and there's an extreme side to it, and it becomes such uh uh uh extremism around those philosophies that it's almost overwhelming just because we have access to it. If you're a self-aware person, parent naturally. Yeah, you don't have to fit a camp, you don't have to put, I think I think millennials were the first to be really bad for needing to label everything. That I'm I need to tell Jeff and I'm a gentle parent so that you understand. No, I'm a fucking dad. Period. There's times where I tell him how well it's every time, but where I step up and my decision is the only decision. Yeah. Then there's other times where we're gonna talk through it and I'm gonna understand your perspective. But like Brian said, if I need to draw the line in the sand and tell you, nope, we're not crossing that anymore. We can talk about it later, but in this moment, yes, you're not going over that line. I will die on that hill.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

And that's why I use that that that example is Link's being in Walmart. Get your ass up off the floor right now. You need to check yourself. We're not having this conversation, Rale. Behave yourself, but what's what's not to say when you guys get back to the car? Link. That was out of left field. I didn't like that entirely. Let's speak about it. Let's speak how you were feeling like you can do both, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 21:13

It doesn't have to be extreme and extreme, and it doesn't have to have a label. You just like you said, naturally parent with your emotional intelligence and be strategic about it. Yeah, that's how people have done it for millennia, and now we feel the need to put like we get overwhelmed because there's so much info. And you know what? You said there's a so much information online, there's also so much misinformation. Well, just as much. And and nowadays, who knows if some of it is made by bots, AI. Uh, everybody online has an opinion. Like, I'm I'm sure like our listening to our podcast, you'll be like, you'll put us into different you know, categories. I'd love it to you to decide right now. Right. But and and take what our conversations are, take them or leave them, whatever. Um, but you know, everybody's got an opinion online. There's good information, there's misinformation, there's everything online. Maybe don't take the paradigm advice from the internet. And maybe I don't know. These conversations, these real ones that we're sitting around this table having real in-person conversations. What worked for you, Ryan? Maybe I'll try these three things out of the 10 things you said, and what Andy's working on right now. Maybe I I could offer uh a suggestion. You could be like, That's great. It worked for you. My kids a little different, so it might not work there. And I don't know. It's good. That's why I love this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Is I get to I'm at the beginning. You guys been through it. I can like pitch out ideas, and then you guys could go, Good luck. You you know, my expectation isn't gonna meet what reality is, but y'all still support. Like, yeah, fuck, we tried that too. Um, give it a shot.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

But what's to say whatever you're seeing won't work for you and your family, you know, like different time. It may work out, but I'm not here trump what you what your truth is. This is not what it's about. You know, everyone has their own truth, but the reality fact is still a truth. And I'm not trying to take sides, I'm not trying to tell you to be the what do you call it? Fo uh faffo. I'm not trying to tell you to be the gentle. You're gonna do what you want to do. I'm just trying to give you a little bit of my blueprint. Take it in as you will, and you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 23:39

You're crafting your, you know, like your style could be different from my style, it could be different from Andy's style, and none of them are wrong per se. Yeah, um, as long as you know you're doing your best for the kids and trying to prep them for the world, like you know, you see what the world is, and you see who your child is, and you take into account what your family want your family to be, and you try to produce the best possible version of whatever you can. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Oh, yeah, there's 100%. I believe that. I think you know, as dads, you being the protectors and the providers, I think for us this conversation's important because we I've said I've said it a couple of times now, you know, I really try to protect my kid from discomfort. Yeah, and I think I will learn to let him experience the discomfort. Yeah, that it's important, that it's good for growth. You know, I think about all the things that I've gone through, all the ups and downs, and and mainly the downs where I learned the most about myself. Yeah, being a very self-reflective person, I can go into a situation, I can exit a relationship and go, okay, that bitch cheated on me. But what did I do that influenced that situation? What did I stop doing? How was I no longer contributing? It doesn't mean that it's my fault. But it's to there's two people in a relationship. When it ends, it's because of two people. There are things that you've done. You have to be self-reflective, but you have to go through that discomfort to learn to be that 100%. Wisdom comes. But I think as dads, man, if you're listening to this, brother, if there is one tool that you pick up, it is be self-reflective. Yes. Whether you journal, whether you talk with the boys, you talk with your wife and say, fuck, why didn't that work? Whatever it was.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Because sometimes inside voice is not always right. It has to be Oh yeah. You know, you got to get those opinions to come to a conclusion.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Your inside voice is meant to protect you from pain, from discomfort, from fear. So it's it's it's gonna tell you that wasn't good. We don't like that. That that social situation where you spoke out of context, then you look fucking weird in front of everyone. Don't do that again. And then you start to shut down. Whereas if you say it to your buddy, like, my bad yesterday. Well, I didn't mean to talk about that. And they go, Oh, snooked, talk about what?

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, we know what you're talking about. But also, like, say we were having the conversation about creating content for the social media and how it you feel embarrassed or like you don't want to put yourself out of there for a certain and if you listen to yourself talking about okay, you wouldn't put produce any of that content. But if Ryan, you said it to Andy and Andy's like, no, you need to speak and get over that hump of feeling embarrassed because people w want to hear what Ryan's gotta say. You're the voice, that's why uh you've got the name, right? Um and you could, I don't know, like he could coach you over that embarrassing, or if I have like a great idea in my head and then I speak it out, like I was saying in the last well bit episode, uh, and it actually is a dumb idea after I which is okay. Yeah, which is okay. You you've had like I might have just prevented like hours and hours and hours of wasted time over uh the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

I just remember anyway. To pull this back into what we were saying here, like this is a longevity thing, like from one to like say they they're in the house until 25 or whatever the case is, you may move and adjust and change and many times through that, like you know what I'm saying? Like it's a longevity game. So don't think that okay, you're taking some advice on the the soothing, the gentle parroting, and this is what I have to follow. No, you're gonna have to pivot, you're gonna have to, you know, adjust to the situation. And just know that if you have your kids' best interests in mind, you're going to be okay, even if it seems like you're a little too strict sometimes. The best your your best interest is to raise someone that can fit into society, contribute to society, and be respectful. You know what I'm saying? So move, adjust accordingly, and that's that's that's how I feel on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

I think um, you know, having consequences and and letting your kid experience consequences uh builds them up. I think if we protect our kids from ever experiencing pain or negativity, uh weakens them. 100%. Man, my mom she never laid a hand on me, but I feared her. She grounded me from everything. I lost so much shit. If and I listen, I was bigger than her at 12 years old. But if she said you're not going to school dance tonight, like you you fucked around, get upstairs to your room, you're done for the night. Yep. I didn't sneak down, I was a pretty good kid, but I listened, right? There was always consequences. If I didn't follow through or I didn't meet my commitments, or I I acted up, there was a consequence. And I think that gentle parenting is the removal of consequences. Yeah. I think that there's the aspect of everyone's everyone gets an opportunity, and you guys are all equal because you all tried. There are no winners and losers. It's the removal of that consequence of you didn't win, so you have to try harder. Yes, you didn't win, that's okay. You still showed up. Don't worry about it. Now, like, is this important to you? Is winning something that you wanted to do? Yeah, I wanted to win. Okay, so what do we need to do to win next time? Let's work with that discipline of hard work and not fearing the work that you gotta put in to grasp what you want. Yeah, hey, I like saying, and that applies to us. What Jeff was just saying about content creation, and like we have to put in this work, it's gonna fucking suck right now. It's not gonna look good, it's not gonna feel polished, we're gonna stumble over our words, we're gonna present the wrong stuff, but just doing it will get us to an end goal. I like that. I really like the way you put that. All right. Do you guys think that sometimes or have you experienced areas where parents will protect their kids from lessons that they needed to learn?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Oh, yeah. You get yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

So I'm I I'll share my experience. Um growing once I was an adult having dress with my mom, I learned that she's like, I never wanted you to feel the pain of us being poor. So I was trying to hide it. I don't want you to know. Uh uh, but I knew that we were poor. So I always felt like a distrust, like she couldn't let me experience things because she felt that I couldn't handle it. But I felt the distrust was I can handle this if you'd learned, you know, what I felt like was always luck. I felt like I was just a lucky person, everything always worked out for me. Was my mom always protecting me from stress? I didn't feel stress. I can remember my first ever panic attack was at the bar. We're in security, nothing was going on. But I was at the bar, I stand there, I was watching the floor, and I just felt like my heart started racing, the room got loud. I could almost hear every voice individually, and it was just so overwhelming that I was like that. I had never really been open to stress, but you know, I was broke, I was eating fucking bologna sandwiches and KD every day. I had no money, living paycheck to paycheck. I didn't have relationships, and I've been protected from all of that stress. You have to let your kid experience stress, experience hardships. I still learned those, but I was never taught about growing up. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Like your discomfort of seeing your child slightly struggle through that type of stuff is preventing them from learning those coping techniques and some important things, right? Like because it's uncomfortable for you at that moment. So you try to prevent it and protect and shelter while now you're doing a disservice to them because now they in their adult years can't handle certain situations. You turn to coping in not so healthy ways, yeah. Or you you stunt them from actually going for what they want. Like, oh, I I want to be a winner, but I just can't make it to that point. Oh, it's because you've been celebrated for participating, but you've never put in the actual work to get to the point. Yes, like being a successful business owner or producing an album that you're proud of that you're confident to share with other people. I know a lot of musicians that work on their music, they work on their music and work on their music and never give it to anybody to listen to. Like, I make art and it's shitty, all shitty, man. Like he's lying. I'm gonna tell you 100%. I'm telling you, I agree with that. Uh I'll make a hundred things and I'll think maybe one of them's good enough to put up. But like, I I just don't care anymore. So uh I'll show you guys because like fuck, you're you're seeing it anyway, but right, but if I'm not confident enough to put it out, what's the point in I don't know. I'm rambling again.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

That's your trade, you're a good guy, and that's that's what we want to teach our kids is who the fuck cares? Put it out there. Not everyone's gonna like it. What you have to teach them is to be people that fucking hate it who think what you just did was stupid. There's gonna be people that fucking love it, and you are gonna connect with people, you are to change someone's fucking life because you put out some R because you showed your your story. You you put on some words that says it's weird to not be weird, and that may seem silly to you, and you may look at it like that's so stupid. I'm an idiot. There's some that will connect to that and go, holy fuck, that person sees me, right? That's if we do nothing else with this podcast, and one dad is the fourth guy at this table, yeah, and says, Boys, like you connected with me. That's all I fucking care about. Yeah, we don't need to do anything else other than connect with one guy. If you're out there and you're listening to this and this matters, DM us, let us fucking know, man, because that's all we do this for. We're not making any money doing this, we're carving time out of our days. That's it. We just want to connect with y'all, put shit out there. Teach your kid to put shit out there. If we're too worried about what the world's gonna say, we're not gonna do anything. I think that's where maybe the fuck around find out parenting comes from of the like consequence. We're gonna put podcast episodes out there talking about father. There's gonna be some people who fucking like it. Oh well, it is what it is. I don't really care. I'm still gonna put out the content. Yeah, I think you know, you with your all right, you just still put it out there. Show your kids like I don't think it's that great, but I'll put it out there and fuck that one that I didn't like, hit and you know, speak openly with them about like that feeling. Uh you know, I've been putting it all out there. Oh I'm making some money now, right? Just do something I love to do. You guys see me draw every day, it's connection with people. We're gonna market Jeff's stuff anyways, I'm gonna put it on t-shirt and he doesn't believe me. But uh, if you listen to this, we will be selling Jeff's art at some point.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Don't fucking edit this. I know. We'll see, we'll see. But uh, but if I make something and that I stare at it for long enough and I don't like it, uh the spray paint over it.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

That's it. I feel you, ma'am. Man, um I'm gonna say this though, like in the younger years as they're developing, man. If you're on at the extreme of either side, you're doing a big discomfort for your child. Um you you you have to know when to say fuck around or find out. And you have to know when. There has to be a mixture, brother. If you're on that gentle side, as they grow older, they're gonna walk over you, they're gonna think you're a pushover, they're not gonna wanna hear what you have to say because uh you're just it's just words, there's no consequence to it. Yeah, yeah. And then that's when the disrespect comes in, and then before you blink, you got teenagers now, you wanna be the fuck around and find out that shit ain't gonna work. It's way too late. Now you're you're you were so extreme to say spear the rod. I'm going to spear the rod. I'm not gonna discipline my kids to the point now where it's so disrespectful and blank in your face that you wanna you wanna get physical. It's too late, bro. Yeah, it's too fucking late. And it's what you've created to have a healthy ballot.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

And when you're 80, you might not have anybody there with you to exactly, bro.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

You're not doing them any favors by being super gentle, and you're not doing them any favors by fucking being super strict. It has to be a healthy mixture, has to. It's a dynamic experience that we we we have to learn that being one of the greatest occupations in the world is being a father, bro. Brotherhood is a blessed occupation, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

I think finding balance as a dad means um guidance and consequences both matter. I think gentle parenting is under the camp of trying to push guidance, guiding them through life and dodging discomfort, but there is also the oh we step too far, there's a fucking there's a consequence. Yes. Um I really like the you can't swing too far into them. No, stay the course, do what feels natural, yes, and you'll be fine. Um, I as someone who, you know, being a millennial, trying to stay away from needing to label everything, um, I can get caught up in the information or misinformation of what's right and what's wrong, yeah, and end up in a camp or end up over here and and and just not where I should be. Um we need to teach accountability to our kids without shame. Yes. Um, and by doing that, I think we need to model what accountability looks like. And I think, you know, as Jeff brought up with his art, if that's something that you want to push out there, like be accountable to it. Push push your art, show in whatever way makes sense in today's time, whether it's fucking social media or you start a website or you do a couple art shows, show your kids what putting yourself out there is, and maybe no one buys anything. Maybe you do art shows every year for the next 10 years, and then in 10 years someone starts to show them what that accountability looks like and how you handle it, how you go through that, right? I think that's where we create and demonstrate discipline. Um especially for fathers like our kids are watching. And that's something that I've started to really take personally is I need to be at the gym as frequently as makes sense, so that my kid understands that I'm putting in the work to take care of myself, that mom and dad eat healthy every night so that he sees that, not that we're like, I thought they don't really eat it tonight. We get some McDonald's tomorrow. Are there times where we're gonna have a cheat day? We're gonna consciously make a decision. Let's all go well, let's go get some fucking yeah, it's gonna probably be for self. Let's have a treat. He can understand that that's a treat. It's not the norm. You don't get to have whatever you want to eat every night. Yeah, if we put down steak and beans, bro, that costs money. You don't want to eat it?

SPEAKER_03 39:52

You're hungry, bro. I'm glad you said that part because that's one thing that pisses me off. Like now we're catering to what they want to eat. That gentle shit. No, no, no, no. Growing up, bro. Sure, I'm not saying you have to go to bed hungry, but this is what we could afford to eat. Yeah, you're gonna take your time and munch away at it, or you're gonna go to bed hungry. And it's okay if you go to bed hungry because you're gonna wake up in the morning and you're still gonna be alive, and you're gonna have you're gonna get that understanding that okay, we're not where we need to be yet, but where we're at right now, this is what mommy or daddy can provide, or just daddy or just mommy, and you're gonna have the respect and be thankful that you could get a meal. You know what I'm saying? All that fucking catering shit. Oh, you don't want to eat this? Okay, I'll make chicken fingers. No, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 40:36

With the school lunch, man, I'm starting to notice that some days, some weeks, like food's not I spend all the money, I go to the store, I get it all, pack it up, prep it. It ends up in the garbage at the end of the day. And I'm like, That's my money in the gun. Yeah, and you didn't eat anything, and then you're bugging me for like some unhealthy snacks later. So it's like, and I'm asking, like, what do you want to eat? And they're like, I don't know. So I have to come up with something. Bro, that could be an episode. There's a whole episode around you don't know who does. Like, okay, they don't know it. So maybe uh it's up to you to pick out the lunches now. You're gonna have to plan the lunches. There's a lot of work to prep, plan, pick, prep, all that. So time to put in some work. It's not easy anyway.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Hey man, and I think that maybe that's the consequence. Maybe you say, Look, I'm not doing it anymore. Dad's working, it's it's it's not easy. Yeah, I'll provide it all, and I'll I'll be right there helping you, but sorry for you to plan, but you bro, I remember having that conversation with my mom, and and me tell her this was in the early 2000s, be like, I don't know why you complain about grocery. Goes like, I could probably get groceries for 50 bucks, 50 bucks that cover me for two weeks or whatever. She's like, I'll give you 50 bucks, and if you can feed yourself for two weeks, I'll admit I'm wrong. It never happened, but I remember her being like, Boy, you don't even fucking know, right? I the first thing I did when I moved out was called her about the price of cheese. Oh, so mom, cheese is ten dollars. I'm so sorry that I would eat a brick in the night.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

I thought it was show bing. So fucking big, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

But the throwback at what uh Jeff was saying, though, that's a combination of strip parenting and gentle parenting. You're saying, okay, I take the time to make your meal. You don't want to eat it. Instead, you're just saying, okay, what do you want to eat and just catering to that? All right, well, you know what? I'm gonna buy the groceries. You're still gonna need lunch. What's your ideas? Yeah, we're gonna come up with something together. It's not just simple, like it's gonna be given to you on the neck just to cater to your feelings. You're gonna put in the work and we're gonna do this together. Yeah, there's work. That's pretty dope.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

And if you if you waste it, you've just wasted your own time. Yeah, man. That's cool, man. I like that. We'll see. I like that. We'll see. And if all you need is a couple protein bars and and like a shake or something, then fine, let's do that. I don't know. Like that some days, some weeks, that's all I do is just bring a couple bars and and protein shake to work and call that a lunch. But if that you gotta we gotta dynamically work on this together.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Can you put this the line in the sand that we gotta figure something out? It's not just gonna go as you want it, we're gonna figure it out together. Exactly. That's a balance right there. Yeah, that's good. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Um, I think I think you're doing a good job. I mean, that's your kids just entering high school. Going into it. Going into it. And yeah, I mean, I think you're preparing him for adulthood. Oh, yeah. Without controlling, without saying, Fine, fuck it. Here's a hundred bucks. You get yourself groceries for the week and and make it last.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Oh man, I in high school, every day, all I would eat. Uh go into the calf and get french fries. That's fucking terrible. That's not even food. Bro, I think about that now. As like adult, I would die. Yeah, yeah. But as a kid, you could survive it's stupid too. Because I was going to like hockey practice like every other day and stuff. How the hell does anybody perform with no energy? Yeah, no fuel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Which is that's the difference between those kids that are crushing and like the rest of us that just kind of made her through. Because I was on two hours of sleep in fucking spaghettios, and the kid that was crushing had six fucking full meals, got a full night's sleep, and was going through a recovery plan at home. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's the kid that's going to the show.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

I was just kind of scrapping and house sleeping.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

But also, they used to make those NASA energy drinks that was the size of your fucking leg. Oh, yeah. Pretty well. We were jetty means in them. Yeah, it was like 13 energy drinks in what? And that's the kind of shame. Like they had to pop in them champagne or like I don't think that's legal anymore.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

I don't think so. I think that there was some not good stuff in them. So a closing reflection here parenting philosophies will always come and go. Yep, but some truths always stay the same. Kids need parents who care enough to guide them, and they need the space enough to experience reality. Because responsibility isn't something that you can lecture into someone, it's something that they learn and grow through experience. The role of a father isn't to control every outcome, it's to prepare your child for the world that they're living in.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Even when that lesson is uncomfortable. Guys, if this episode has resonated with you, share it with another dad who might enjoy the conversation. Come find us on the dad edit podcast at Instagram. And watch for the next dad walk announcement. The next one will be the next probably six months worth of dad walks because we're picking a specific day. It's going to be the third Saturday of every month at 11 a.m. at Kiwanis Park. Kiwanis Skate Park will be the meet location. Remember, we is all we got.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Thank you.