Delivered from Darkness, Part Two

The night feels longest when you don’t know what the morning will bring. That’s where Mandy lived for months—on the couch, next to a bedroom door, wondering if her daughter would survive the night. 

Battling the invisible enemies of anxiety, depression, and dark spiritual forces that threatened her daughter, Lauren’s, life, Mandy Donegan fought tirelessly for Lauren. In this riveting sequel to Lauren’s interview (Delivered from Darkness, Part One), Mandy joins us to discuss God’s faithfulness and the kind of love that bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things...and never fails!

We also address the loneliness of crisis and how the fear of judgment pushes us to isolate rather than reach out.  

If this resonates, share it with someone who needs hope, subscribe for more honest faith conversations, and leave a review so others can find the show. Your words help keep the light alive.

Transcript

Welcome & Setup Of Lauren’s Story

SPEAKER_01 0:14

I knew you wouldn't make it, but I'm telling don't let the light go out. I don't care if it is just the tiniest.

Mandy’s First Memory Of God

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome to Religion Stops, the podcast where we talk about what it means to have a real relationship with God. I am your host Kirsten Flying Solo today, but we have an amazing interview. A few weeks ago, we talked to a young woman named Lauren, who struggled for years with deep depression and anxiety. Well, today we're talking to her mom, Mandy, about what it's like to walk through that kind of valley with someone you love. I think you're gonna really enjoy this interview and probably want to share it with a friend. Anyway, I will stop talking. Let's get this started. Here is Mandy. Welcome, Mandy, to the Religion Sucks Podcast Studio. We always start the show with the same question: What is your earliest memory of God?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

And that's such a great question because I was thinking about just my testimony and my story. And I grew up in a home where we went to church once in a while. Um, I always sought out, like wanting that feeling of a spiritual connection. I just didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know where to go. Um, and whenever I was 23, I decided to move to Colorado. And little did I know, I had a Christian lady that was praying over me and praying for me through the whole transition. And I got to Colorado and I opened up one of my first boxes. I was super lonely. I was thankfully living with cousins. Um I had not gone to church enough to even know anything about Jesus or anything about the cross or anything about forgiveness and redemption or any of that stuff. Um, and so there was one night that I was extremely lonely and just crying, and I was opening up my boxes of stuff, and the first thing I found was a Bible that somebody had come in and put it in my box, unbeknownst to me. And I'll never forget. I started to just open up the Bible, I started to read about Jesus's Jesus and baptisms and and forgiveness and the cross. And I just wept. And within two hours, my cousin called me and invited me to go to Westbowl's church. And so I was like, Lord, if you're real and if all the things that I'm reading in this Bible are accurate, like, what do I do? My cousin, it was actually the elder at the church's daughter that called me, that was Ashley, and she's my cousin. And um, they called and said, Hey, there's gonna be a church, uh, young adults, we'd love for you to come. And then from that point on, I got baptized a month later. I met Michael two months later. And then that's at that point, I was like, God, you are real. You come in fast and furious sometimes. Sometimes we have to be patient. Um, but it was just like I just felt what it feels like to just truly be forgiven, truly leave my past in my past. Um, and then knowing the feeling of what freedom felt like and being able to be a new creation here in Colorado. And so that's that's pretty much my first big memory of like, Lord, you are there, you are listening, you provide, you gave me a church, you gave me a husband. Yeah, so it happened, it it was it was an incredible moment in my life, and there's been so many other after that. But that's the first thing I could think of.

Childhood, Family Upheaval, Searching For Faith

SPEAKER_00 3:36

So we interviewed your daughter Lauren a few weeks ago. Um and for our listeners, if you have not listened to that episode, I would highly recommend it. It's pretty amazing. It's Delivered from Darkness part one. But we wanted you to have you on the show, Mandy, to get your perspective on what it is like to go through that journey with someone you love. But could you real quick give us just a brief overview of your own childhood and what your life was like growing up? Um because I think it really sets the stage, like the way we were parented affects our parenting. You don't have to go into details, but maybe just give us that brief overview.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, I grew up in Southern California. Um I have a sister and a brother. I'm the oldest. And my mom and dad, they were married for 20 years. Uh, they got a divorce um when I actually I think it maybe maybe it was 18 years, because they got a divorce when I was 18. And so growing up, I grew up in Corona. Um, it's inland empire, small, it's small, what used to be a small town. Um, I did just the regular public school, uh, elementary, junior, high school. Um, throughout that time, the, you know, religious part of the life that we were living was every other month it would be maybe trying a Mormon church or maybe trying um a Catholic church, or maybe, you know, we kind of just tried different churches to try to get a feel of what kind of stuck and then what didn't. Um, but over time I think it just became something that wasn't as important. So we didn't really ever find a church home or but I always desired. I'm like, wouldn't it be awesome if we did find a church home and if we did have, you know, and that just is something that instead it's okay. Um, but I saw at a young age that spirituality and you know, that God is so important within the family because I saw other families that had those types of relationships and I saw how that impacted their lives. And over time it just um became apparent that my parents were struggling and that there was lack of money. And my parents actually went bankrupt when I was 17, 18, so we lost the house. Um, and it was just really difficult. And so I moved out at a very young age. I moved out at, well, not young, but I was 18, but I moved to Newport Beach just to kind of get my life started and then just figure out what I wanted to do from that point on. Um, but I did also find out when I was 12 years old that I um what I thought was my biological father was not. So I found out very young. Um, and I probably had been told that before, um, but I just didn't remember. So I think by the time I was, you know, 12, 13, and I found some pictures of my mom and this guy, and I was like, who's this guy? And then I realized, oh my gosh, this is my, you know, that's my biological father. So I never met my biological father. Um, but I um had a dad that adopted me when I was two. So when I was 12, 13 years old to find out that my sister was my half sister, my brother was my half-brother, you know, it kind of set me into a spiral of you're not my dad. Why are you gonna tell me what to do? And so um I had, you know, my family, uh great family. My mom was such a hard worker. She was such an incredible mom. Um she did everything she could to, to, to just really lead our family. Um, but it's it's hard, especially with three kids and kind of a struggling marriage and struggling finances and all the things, right? And so I think that kind of without that kind of upbringing of the strong foundation, um, all that I ever had to go back to was flesh and fulfilling my own desires and my own wants. And so at a very, you know, young age, I mean, I was sneaking out and I was going to Mexico and I was you know, I was, you know, by the school stories, the tarantulas in your suitcase. Going to Mexico, exactly. They're definitely Tijuana tarantulas that are very and I still have nightmares about that to this day. Um, but I think that led into from 18 on, um, until I was 23, until I got saved, just kind of a life of just fulfilling my flesh. And um, drinking wasn't enough, drugs wasn't enough, and then it just got into, you know, just some really bad things. And so by the time I was 23, I I had actually been able to um get some really good jobs. I was a recruiter and I w worked my way up the corporate ladder, but I just always had this empty void in my heart and my spirit that there's got to be more.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

So you get married, you start having children. What was Lauren like as a child?

SPEAKER_01 8:10

So before I got pregnant with Lauren, well, with Noah, we didn't find out the sex. So I had a feeling it was gonna be a boy. Um, and then by the time I got pregnant the second time, I just told myself, it's okay if it's a boy. It's fine. I'll be happy no matter what, right? Deep deep down, I wanted a girl so badly. And but we didn't want to find out. I'll never forget when they said it's a girl, I just wept because I was like, Lord, this is all I've ever wanted was a girl. And I was very happy with a boy. Um, I just knew that I also wanted a girl, and God had put that heavy on my heart for a very long time of what potentially my future daughter could look like. And whenever I gave birth, she was the most beautiful baby girl. And she just had these cute, beautiful, cupid lips and these big blue eyes, and this full head of hair, and they put this cute little um hat on her with a big old bow. And I was just like, this is it, like everything I've ever wanted. I have a little boy, I have a little girl, I'm, you know, married to, you know, my dream husband, like all the things. You know, we my I was married to a very strong believer. Michael was very strong in his faith. Um, so here we were just locking arms, Christ followers, had our children. Then I'm like, I think that what I want to do in the future is is homeschool. And you kind of just have this idea, especially as believers, because you've watched, of course, people within your own life that have lived similar similar lives, you know, going to church, doing homeschool. All the things that I think that once I had, you know, Lauren as a baby and Noah is too, you start to just have expectations for your life. You start to um have these visions of what you think your life is gonna look like. Um, and those are my hopes and prayers is that I'm gonna homeschool and it's gonna be a beautiful experience. And then my kids are gonna grow up into their teenage years and they're not gonna go through what typical teenagers go through, and then they're gonna be in their, you know, 18, 19, 20 years, and then they're gonna go to school, and then they're gonna marry their, you know, significant and all the things, right? Like we and then I think also as believers, sometimes we can just have this expectation of what we think that life should look like and we leave God out of it. And it's just like because we can put God in a box, we can put our kids in a box, we can put our marriage in a box, and it's like, well, what the outside world is seeing is all these things that we're living our life out the way that the Christian life is supposed to be lived out. And so that's I I never in a million years thought anything would really go wrong. I never thought that anything, you know, um, in terms of mental health struggles or in terms of um, you know, any I I I just was kind of blind to to thinking that that could happen to the Donnegans.

The Shift In Lauren During 2020

SPEAKER_00 10:52

So when did you guys start to notice a change in Lauren? Um, because when we interviewed her, you know, she described her childhood as very normal, you know, typical ups and downs, but nothing out of the ordinary. So when did you first start to see that something was different?

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah, so and that was what was um very eye-opening for us, is that we did quote unquote all the things. Yeah. Um, we were, you know, going to a great church. We were, you know, she was doing Sunday, you know, school, all the things, right? So we never saw any signs at all of any any like future um problems that we could potentially see in like a five-year-old or eight-year-old or 10-year-old. She was always very tenderhearted, very, very sensitive. Um she took everything. It would, it would, it was be, it would be very hard for her to say, I'm sorry, because it would be hard for her to admit that she made a mistake because she had such a low self-image that she just wanted everything and everyone to be happy and to be happy with her. And so I saw those insecurities when she was young. Um when we started a homeschool, people are just not very nice in terms of parents at homeschool. Well, your children are not gonna get socialized, and oh, they're not gonna be good educated. And so she heard those voices, and I think that started to attach to her self-image and like, well, I'm not smart because I'm being homeschooled. I'm not this. So I started to see those little signs. Um, but when she was 12, 13 years old, when 2020 happened, I'll never forget she had a sleepover. And one morning she came downstairs and I could tell that there was a switch. And all of a sudden, she was cold. Um, her light wasn't shining as much as it was, the joy wasn't there. And I started to see just day by day things start to get worse over time. Um, and then that's when a few months later, the anxiety and depression started to kick in. And it was something that we weren't ready. Well, now who's ready for that? But I had never dealt with personal depression or severe anxiety or anything like that before to know the symptoms and to know the signs. And so it was something that I was reading, I was trying to educate myself. And of course, our 13, what 13, 14-year-old is gonna want to talk and share with you what it is that they're struggling with or what it is that they're going through, especially if they have parents that are, you know, what they think have it all together.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

So when you saw that she was struggling, how did that make you feel?

Isolation, Hospital Trips, And Stigma

From What If To Even If

SPEAKER_01 13:27

It was the most difficult season of my whole entire life. And especially when we were in the middle of 2020, we were trying to understand what was going on. We were isolated, we were sad, we were scared, and then to also see your child's mental health start to decline, not just the mental health part of it, but her physical health. And she would get to the point where she couldn't even get out of bed and she was in bed for a couple weeks. We'd have to take her to the hospital to get her to get some nutrients and vitamins into her system. And she, I I will never forget, I was so at a loss. And especially as believers, we can be very hesitant to open up with other believers about what's going on in our lives because of the fear of judgment. And I think as parents can blame ourselves for everything that our kids are or are not doing. And so to reach out to people and say this things that I wanted to say, I was just very concerned that, well, they're probably, well, Mandy, how are you parenting her? And are you doing this and are you doing that? And there can be criticism and there can be judgment, and there can be all those things. And when it's something like mental health, it is a strong, you can tell somebody my child is sick with cancer, and they they understand and there's a sickness in their body, but when there's a sickness in their brain, it's not as accepted. It's more like, oh, well, I don't know how to deal with that. That looks not that that looks like something I've never seen before. I need to protect my family from that because this is kind of scary, right? Did you try to reach out to people or did you isolate? I tended to isolate because I was just too the the couple of situations that I did have ended up being really difficult because it was it was situations where people just didn't know what to do. Yeah. And it was uh it was a situation that I think it made people very uncomfortable. And I understand that. I do. Um, when you see somebody go through such heartache and such darkness in their life, and you see someone who once was so joyful and tenderhearted and loving to all of a sudden close, and you could see that the darkness, you know, was seeping in and all these things. It's very hard for people to get into your valley with you if they've not been there before. Um, and even Michael, like, bless his hearts. You know, our husbands, they want solutions, they want answers, they want to be Mr. Fix It with everything, right? And it's like, Mandy, why is this happening? We need an answer, we need a solution, and we need it fixed. I'm like, honey, this is gonna take longer than just what you mentioned. And that was what was really difficult, is it just became, I was basically Lauren's caregiver for a good couple of years, just experiencing all the things that we experienced together. Um, but what was so beautiful, and I've always said that in the valleys is where empathy is truly birthed. And I thank God, even though the valley was so dark and so difficult, I thank God for that because it has given me so much empathy where I can see what people are going through. I can be in it with them. Um, and I think that there's just something very special about that. And so when you're going through things like that, and this can be anything, not just mental health, it can be so many other things, even situations within our marriage. Like when we let out what is in the dark into the light, that is when true healing can happen. And I think that in my situation, I wasn't ready to be vulnerable, I wasn't ready to be transparent. Um, I wanted to just continue to just like bring everything inwards versus external, because I just didn't even know if I could handle one piece of negative advice because my spirit was so shattered with something that I've never thought would happen. And then I was just trying to figure that out, right? And then we were on survival mode, just trying to get her the help that she needed, continuing to just be on my knees. And that is when my relationship with God got so strong. Before this situation, I would say I'd get more excited with the, you know, kind of spiritual TED talks. I get more excited, you know, just very topical stuff. And yes, I was a strong believer. Um, but at the same time, like in terms of the depths of my soul and in terms of spiritual battles, speaking and rebuking certain things, my spiritual walk hadn't been that strong because there was really no need for it. I think we all can just go through the Christian lifestyle of you go to church and you read your Bible and you pray over these things, and this is all great and wonderful. But when crap hits the fan, like, what are you gonna do? Are you going to? It's that whole thing, forget everything and run or face everything and rise. And at that moment, I'm like, I have to face this. Obviously, this is my daughter. Um, my husband, and I have to pray for my husband. I have to pray for my son. I have to pray for my daughter. I also have to be in the word and be stronger now than ever before. And that is when I started to just dig deep. Okay, like, Lord, what is going on? Where is this coming from? What is happening within my daughter's spirit? Is this truly a spiritual battle? Is this a fight between light and dark? Yeah. Or is this one of these things that it's just we need therapy and we're gonna do this and we're gonna and and and that's what I think I want uh whoever's listening to hear me when I'm saying this, is that there is a true spiritual battle. And we can go and we can fight against hell. And the enemy is going to continue to obviously do these things to try to get our children's attention. And as parents, when you come in, and I'll never forget, as we started to walk through this, there was one night, I'll never forget this night. This is really when things became very strong with my spiritual walk. And I knew without a shadow of a doubt that what we speak and what we believe matters. And there were mornings I didn't know if my daughter was going to be alive. Suicidal ideations, suicidal thoughts, yeah. Um, self-harm. And there were nights where I'd sleep next to her because I just didn't trust her being by herself. And um I was on the couch and I was like, Lord, I need something to grab a hold of right now because I was living in this world of what ifs. What if my daughter takes her life? What if, you know, I go in and I I mean, there's so many things. And crazy enough, it led me to some reel on Instagram of a pastor, and it was literally called what if and even if. And for three minutes, he spoke truth into my life, and he said, You take whatever it is that you are fearful of right now, and you say that, but before that you say even if. And I had to finally speak out, okay, even if my daughter takes her life, God is still good. That is very difficult to do versus what if. I think we can live in this mindset of what if this happens, what if that happens, what if my husband does have cancer, what if my child is, you know, gonna take their life, you know, what if, what if, what if, and that the enemy wants us to live in what if, because that's very fear-based, versus living in even if, even if my husband gets cancer, he is still good. Even if my daughter, if something, God forbid, our worst nightmare happens, even if that happens, God is still good. And so that released me, and I think that that's where we have to get to in our spiritual walk, is to be depending on God so much that even if the worst thing happens, God is still good. And how strong is your faith to where you won't ask him why, you won't turn your back on him, you will push in and you will not put him in a box. And so as soon as I let him have that, like, okay, even if that burden was relieved, that burden was gone, and I no longer felt it, and I was just like, okay, Lord, you have my girl. And even if, even if, but I knew, Kristen, I knew without a shadow of a doubt that she was gonna come back. And when you have that expectant heart of, I believe through and through that my daughter's gonna come back. I know during this season she she's she's definitely been anointed since since birth. God has incredible plans for her. Sometimes we have to be so broken to the point to where only God can pick up those pieces. And we have to let go of the control of thinking that, but this isn't the life I wanted. This isn't the teenage years I thought I was gonna have. I I I I I don't even know what to do with this huge situation that's just, but I do know where to go. And I think that that from that point on, God came into my life to expose his power and for me to be able to know what he can do and to speak into existence what's to come, but not where we're at. And so when Lauren was in her season, I would tell her all the time, there is a next level, Lauren, and she's coming. And it's okay if she's not here today, because she's here enough. You're enough with where you're at today with what you're learning, that there's a next level that God's gonna take you to that only He can take you to.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

You said you always knew she would come back. Were there ever low points, ever moments where you wondered, are we gonna survive this?

Holding A Flicker: Don’t Let The Light Go Out

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Um there was a time that Michael said, Are we gonna be here forever? And I said, No, we're not. Like, I see her future. I said, God, Jeremiah 29, 11, all the time. I'm like, he has a plan, he has a future for her. I said, This is just a short season. And I said, and I would tell Lauren all the time, just like that candle is flickering over there. I knew she got baptized. I knew she had the Holy Spirit. I knew she was gonna make it. But I would tell her, don't let the light go out. I don't care if it is just the tiniest flicker if you don't let the light go out. And that is what, and I just always imagined that light just flickering. And there were times, Kirsten, where I was like, it's almost out, it's almost out. But not once did I ever have this dread of it could go out. Because I always deep, deep down knew that she knew Jesus. I knew it.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Was she receptive to those things when you would say that?

Mind, Body, Spirit And The Enemy’s Grooves

SPEAKER_01 24:18

I'll never forget when we started at the beginning of her journey journey when she started to turn her back on her Christian walk. She took her Bible and she threw it and wanted it out of the house. And she's like, I don't even believe in God. There would be times where I would literally be praying over her in my spirit, and she would, she would shudder and she would be like, Stop praying. I'm like, How do you know I'm praying? They always know. Um, and there so I feel like there was only one percent of her that was standing on the Holy Spirit, even though she was trying to escape from that. And there was 99% of just heaviness and darkness and lies and deception and all those things. But that is how strong the grip of Christ can have on us. And that's why I just always knew, because I didn't ever doubt, even when she was three, five, ten, third, never doubted her belief in Christ. And so that's why I knew that she was gonna be able to come back to that foundation of him sooner or later. I just didn't know when. And so trusting him through the process, when there's a big question mark on when is this gonna end? How long is this gonna happen? Because my days are seeming like months and my months are seeming like years. And every diagnose, every diagnosis, every, you know, therapy. I mean, it was just layers and layers and layers of really just ugly news that you don't want to hear about your child. You know, they're diagnosed as this and they're, you know, the all these things. And I'm like, no, the enemy, unfortunately, she's just listening to the lives of the world right now and she's conforming to the way of the world. And I saw it so clearly because there was no transformation. Just like, do not conform to the way of the world. Obviously, you know, our minds need to be renewed. And I I knew that that's what it was gonna take is for her mind to just be renewed versus conforming. And I knew that when she was conforming to the way of the world, that wasn't gonna sustain. And she's such an empath, and she feels so deeply, and she loves so deeply that I'm like, she is going to miss the feeling of what it feels like to be in God's hands. And that's how things started to shift, is she started to realize that the world will never fulfill, darkness will never, you know. And so it was, did I ever think that uh darkness could come into somebody's spirit so fast? But I believe, especially with young adults, there is the social media piece. There is what they listen to, what they see, what their friends are talking to. And you can't feel guilty or shame as a parent because they're gonna get it no matter what, even if they move out at 18 years old, you know, they're gonna go get it from the world. Um, but as long as they are as long as you have provided that strong foundation for them to know that there will never ever be a replacement for Jesus. Nothing. Well, and and they will continue they will get back to that point where they are desiring that relationship with him because the world will never fulfill.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

So I've heard it said that with most mental illness, there is a physical component, an emotional component, and a spiritual component. Do you feel like that was your experience with Lauren?

What Actually Helps Families In Crisis

SPEAKER_01 27:31

I always talk about mind, body, spirit, and the importance of all those things. And even if one's off, we're very, very unbalanced. And I'm not saying you have to be a 10 out of 10 in mind and 10 out of 10 in body and 10 out of 10 in spirit all the time. 10 out of 10 in any of those things. Like never. So I've never lifted the bar. Like that's ridiculous. But they're um and and it goes both ways, right? It's just like whenever you are working every day towards treating your body as a temple and working every day towards being spiritually strong and working every day towards your mind and just focusing on those three things, versus if you go down the path of, you know, really tough, difficult mental health types of struggles. If your mind is not locked in, if your body is not, and I'm talking like eating unhealthy, drinking, obviously, marijuana, vaping, like all the things. And it's just everything is just a gateway to one more worse thing. And I started to see that in her. Um, because it was one of those things that we had, you know, our kids were raised in a dry house. We didn't do drugs, we didn't drink, like none of those things. We were very much a strict Christian family, you know, and and as as as all these things started to play out in regards to what she was allowing into her life, what these things were with her mind, body, spirit, is she was just trying to escape the deep sense of insecurities, self-hatred. Um, I believe that the enemy obviously knows where he can come into all of our spirits and how he can bring us all down. And I believe by the time she was three, four, five years old, when she was feeling these insecurities, I believe that there was a spirit of confusion, a spirit of low self-esteem, that something started to happen to where when she started to get older, her mind, her body, her spirit, unfortunately, since these neuropathways were starting to be developed, and it's just like in Rome, there's those roads that they would just go over and over and over. The grooves became just stable grooves to where that's all that the cars could go down. Is that one way and one way only? And I feel like those grooves were starting to just be um created by the enemy, opening up those kind of portals to be able to come into and start to feel that yeah, you're not good enough, you're not worthy enough, you're not pretty enough, you're not skinny enough, you're not smart enough. I mean. All of these things. And so mind, body, spirit, where it all those things were starting. Body, I'm not skinny enough. Mind, you know, I'm not smart enough. Right. Spiritual, like, oh, I don't believe in God. If it, if there was a God right. So very, very strong areas of our who we are. And to see the enemy come in in all those three areas and start to develop these unbelievable like grooves. What happened by the time she was 13, which is what I believe the enemy wanted to happen in 2020, is the is is all of us had these grooves, you know, and then lockdown, isolation. And then guess what monster is going to be fed? It's going to be social media. It's going to be all the things, right? No exercise, no going outside, no seeing the sunshine, all of these things. So it was just the devil's playground to just come in and just wreak havoc on all of us, but some worse than others because those that already struggled with anxiety and already struggled with depression. Um, so I don't want to say, you know, social media is a reason that my daughter had her downfall because I think that that is actually not true. I believe that it was years and years before of the enemy trying to come in because he knew she was a threat and he wanted her to worship him and not the one and only true God. And so I think that with mental health, that's what ends up happening is over time your thoughts just become more and more solidified to where the enemy comes in. And I always would say, as a mom, I am not gonna agree with what the enemy is telling my child today. And it would make me bite my tongue on, oh, should I get mad at a dirty room? Should I get mad at this? Should I get mad? But what if the enemy is telling my daughter is just what if she's that you're you're just a slob, you're just a mess. And then I come in and get upset because her room's messy. So I had to completely turn internal while my daughter was healing on her path, I was her learning healing on my path. I started to take accountability for my mind, my body, my spirit, because I couldn't expect her to do those things because she was on her own journey. I had to stop expecting all these things to happen and be like, you know, I have to expect that from myself. I have to become intentional about how I'm living my life.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

So going back to people's responses to your family during this time, what are some things people could have said or done or ways that they could have come alongside you that would have been helpful?

Parenting Do-Overs: Validation Over Fixing

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Such a great question. So, and I want to add this piece as well is when Lauren was going through her difficult season, she dyed her hair, right? She started to wear all black. So people that were our friends for years, and then within a couple months, you know, they see us again and it's like, oh my gosh, what's happened to Lauren and what's going on, and just all the things. And so there was that piece of it where you could see physically that she was struggling. I think that would have been the most amazing blessing is for people to just come over and just embrace Lauren, embrace, you know, all of what we were going through and not be so scared about it and kind of put because people know our lives, they know us as a family, um, and to be able to just breathe truth and life and positivity, even during a really tough time. Like I will take a mom's face and I will be like, this is not the end. There is hope, there is a future. This is not your daughter is not gonna be like this forever. Do not stop praying. Do not like just feet because I know what I did. I put scripture all around Lauren's room, worship is a weapon. So I would go in and when she was seeking help, I would go and put just music on in her room, and I would just be, I mean, going and literally putting oil all over her walls. Like I there, I did everything I could to just continue to speak truth and goodness and healing versus being scared of it. And so I had to just flip the switch. And so I think that that probably would have been the most helpful thing is to just not speak what is, but to speak what is to come. And also to just be able to not tell somebody what you think they should or shouldn't do. Simply ask, what do you need from me? Sometimes all they need is just, I had a friend of mine, she was so sweet. Every time I would talk to her, she's like, What are you doing for yourself today? And I'm like, absolutely nothing. I'm completely depleted. Mandy, I know you like your walks. I I think you should go out and take a walk. I'm like, but I can't even take a walk now because if I look at somebody I remember this season, or if I even looked at somebody's eyes, I would sob and I would cry, or else I would see somebody that was struggling like Lauren. And I just wanted to take them and hug them and love them and tell them it's gonna be okay. And so there was a season where I just needed to stay inside because I was too emotional, I was too broken, I was, you know, and and um, so I think that that is the biggest thing is sometimes people just want you to sit next to them. And sometimes even asking, like, do you want me to share with you maybe some advice that I have from another mom that's going through the same thing, or do you just need me to listen to you today? Or do you just want to pray? So I think just being there with them, not feeling like you have to give them answers, not feeling like you have to give them um advice, but just being in it with them without judgment and without criticism and without being like, Well, do you think that maybe you should, you know, if she's dealing with XYZ, maybe you should just stop doing that. I'm like, I don't think you understand. I'm doing the best I can. I am trust me that I know I I am doing all I need is just prayer because I'm just in survival mode right now. So these other things that you're thinking that I may do be doing right or wrong, like that doesn't even matter right now. I am just trying. Outside of a child passing away, I don't know if there's many more worse things, honestly, than what at the the the level of mental health, you know, struggles that Lauren was at. Um, it was it was near death.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

And so it was it was dark. Looking back, is there anything you would do differently?

The Biggest Lie: It’s All My Fault

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Great question. Um, I would have started doing something differently when my kids were three, four, five, six years old. Because I feel like I not that I wasn't prepared. I wasn't prepared actually. Um, but I think we can do a disservice on what we think our life should and shouldn't look like with the expectations that we set. And even within the church, it can be very much of a performance, um, very much of a uh, I care too much what people think, so I'm just gonna turn in in internal. I think there's a disservice of whenever someone's struggling, like, oh, well, just pray over it, or oh, just give it scripture. All those things are beautiful things, but there's also the real heart of the matter of what's really causing this, what kind of spiritual attack is going on right now? What can we like have some really strong prayers over? Handling it much more spiritually, I think, um, because I be I believe that if I were to do it all over again when my kids were four, five, six years old, I would have already been preparing for the teenage years. I would have been reading more books. I mean, I read a lot of self-help motivational books and obviously the Bible and things like that, um, watched a lot of podcasts, but not enough in regards to getting into my children's mind, learning how to validate my kids, learning that our tone matters, um, our presence matters, our children are automatically gonna put us up on a pedestal. No matter how good or bad parents we are, they're gonna look up to us. And if we set the bar too high, they're never gonna feel like they're gonna be able to reach it. But if we are able to just in those moments be those bumpers, they're the bowling ball, be the safety, be what they can be protected by. Um, but allowing them to fall down and fail, allowing them to, you know, see their parents fall down and fail. And I just think if I would have learned a long time ago how to see my daughter and my son and how to validate them in moments. And how you validate somebody is, Lauren, I just can't even imagine how difficult it is to go through this right now. Versus like, Lauren, like you have everything that you could possibly need. Like, God's blessed you so much. Why are you not happy? Versus like, I can't even imagine how difficult your life is today. What can I do to help you? Just and and not always coming to the table with answers. And well, this is what I'm going through with my friend. Well, why well did you tell him this? Did you tell him that? And it's like, stop, pause, rewind. Like, well, Lauren, how did that make you feel today? How did that make and what do you think that you should do? Right. Um, I think if I would have provided, because I'm a very, I have lots of energy and I want, and Michael has his type A personality, so we kind of come to the table with high energy, type A personality. Let's find a solution, let's find an answer, and let's move on. And that's really not given the kids a lot of space to just go out there and make a mess. And then we all come. And but in the past five years, let me tell you something. It's been such a blessing because we have come full circle. We are learning to validate more. And I I realized when Lauren was 13, 14, 15, I'm like, I can't expect her to be doing all this work to internalize things, to grow, to realize that, you know what, man, I admit I made a mistake. I admit I didn't do this right. I admit maybe I should have been a little bit tighter when it came to, you know, social media. And maybe I shouldn't have felt that like just a scripture could just answer all things. Like it's so much deeper than that. Um, and I did sometimes put up a, you know, facade as well, where it was just like, I, you know, you want everybody to, you know, look at the picture over your mantle and be like, that's a beautiful Christian family, and they're doing everything right, and all the things are happening in their life is beautiful. And I think that that's the picture we want everybody to continue to think versus just getting really raw. And I think that that's the biggest thing is transparency. And that's what has been, I think unfortunately, uh lost since 2020. I mean, it was starting to get worse before that, but I feel that with 2020, with isolation, with things being done online, with fear, with social media, um, with comparison, right? Like comparing yourself to everybody else. And the enemy has used all these things to distract us from actually finding true fellowship. And what does true fellowship look like? And so that I think is what we're missing right now in this day and age is that fellowship and is that compassion um and just wanting to get into people's stories with them to be able to expose the enemy and to be able to bring healing because the enemy doesn't want healing to happen at all. And so that is something that I think is beautiful with what you're doing and bringing Lauren in here. And I've seen her be able to heal and myself heal because of being able to work through some of the ugliest parts of our past.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Through all of this, what do you think is the biggest lie that you believed?

Stop Putting God In A Box

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Oh my gosh, that I'm a terrible mom. That I was a reason for my daughter's mental health crisis, that I was a reason for all the things. And even just three days ago, you know, things happening and feeling like, wow, I am just a mess. And I started to realize that wait a second. And like I mentioned before, it is about the message, not the mess. It is about Christ. It is not about the the shame and the guilt that the enemy is trying to bring into our lives. And so in those moments, I have to just be like, Lord, please, I just rebuke this spirit of insecurity and the spirit of shame that's trying to seep into my life because you are the enemy's trying to take me away from doing something like this. So I think that that is the biggest lie, is that um, and that's my what I feel one of my callings is is to let parents know that it's not your fault. Mothers out there, it is not your fault. Fathers out there, it is not your fault. Kids out there, it's not your fault. The best thing you can do is surrender. Surrender, surrender. And I even with all of the stories and the um podcasts that Lauren's done, we've had our life put out there. And at the very beginning, I'm like, Lord, you do what you want with that, right? And I think the biggest thing I've learned from that is even if that story gets put out there and the ugliest parts of our background and the things that I feel the most shameful for for my parenting is out there. What everybody can see in me is brokenness, but saved by an incredible God and an incredible, I mean, Jesus died on the cross to save us. Every time I get, I'm like, Jesus, you did this, is it is finished. It's finished. And so I have to constantly go back and forth with with those lies. Um, but then I'm also always reminded that that's the beauty in brokenness. And that's it's it's okay if all of our brokenness is put out there. The right people will be impacted, you know. The, you know, there might be some that are just like, oh my gosh, judging and critical and all the things. But everybody will have a time in their life where they will just be in the valley and they'll have to choose. Are you gonna surrender or are you you're are you gonna actually like let Jesus come into those darkest parts of your world and your story and your background and learn to unearth those things and learn to heal through those things because we can all wear a mask and we can all go day by day just acting as if everything's okay. And it might not be as big of a situation as what Lauren's gone through, but that doesn't mean that your situation isn't just as important. You know, I mean, even if a child is having anxiety or there's a little bit of depression or there's negative self-talk, I mean, there's just so many things that can just tear apart our children and just learning how to see them and how to validate and how to pray over them and also how to internalize how you can look in the mirror and love yourself through it. Because if you can't look in the mirror and love yourself through it, how can you teach your daughter to do the same? I had to show by example of what it was gonna look like for a fallen woman who has gone through, you know, the past that I've gone through and getting saved when I got saved and all of the things. I lived of this world as well. And so I've been down that path. Um, so I'm like, okay, now when my daughter's 15, 16, 17, your parenting ways change. And so now it's more or less like I set the example. I I dive deep into scripture. I actually have to show her through my example, not through my words.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

So final thought. What is one thing you would want to share with people who are listening?

Closing Thanks And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Something that just even a couple days ago, the spirit quietly shared with me is don't put me in a box. And I think that is the biggest thing is I do it, I did it today. Like we can put our kids in a box in regards to what we think they should or shouldn't be doing. We can put our husbands in a box on what they should or shouldn't be doing. We can put our God in a box, we can put our church in a box, we can put our pastors in a box, we can put ourselves in a box. I mean, all the things, right? And it's like we should not that that that's a thing I think I've learned the most is because I did. I try to control things. I try to put things in a nice, pretty box wrapped up with a beautiful bow so everybody on the outside could see whatever external lie that they saw, versus just ripping apart the box. And when we rip apart the box, nothing, it's kind of like a shark. You put it you put a shark in a fish tank and it only grows so much. You put a shark in an ocean and it grows exponentially. It's kind of the same with our faith. It's kind of the same with our our thought process about life. It's like, what if your thoughts were, and we are, we're given this amazing brain and the spirit and this box exponentially. He can do again in Ephesians, exceedingly and abundantly. And I will never forget, I had this scripture all over my room when Lauren was going through all of our things. I spoke it in the morning, I spoke it in the afternoon, I spoke it at night. I'm like, Lord, you are gonna do exceedingly and abundantly more than you can ever than more than we can ever ask or imagine. And we didn't even have time to share about all of Lauren's blessings and all of those full circle moments and all the things that the exceeding part of her story is amazing and beautiful. Um, but I think that that's the biggest thing for anybody that's listening right now, whether it's a marriage struggle, whether it's a finance struggle, whether it's mental health, it could be you personally dealing with depression, with mental health, putting yourself in a box. And what I've heard can happen, unfortunately, is that box just gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And before you know it, the light goes out, and that's when you just want to give up. And so the enemy wants to keep us in small dark places. And so I think if we can just the law of the lid, just take the lid off, just just just don't be so scared to let go and let God and empty your hands of that control because he's ultimately in control. And when you do that, it's oh it's got to fire.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

And so I think that's what I would say is just don't put God in the box. Man, that's so good. Thank you for sharing that, Mandy. And thank you for being on the show. Thank you also to our listeners for listening to the end of the episode. If you enjoyed this, um, please share with a friend. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. We also love it when we hear from our listeners. So hit us up on our website, religionstucks.